Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
Is Professionalism Dead?
Join us on this episode of Coffee and Career Hour as we explore the ways professionalism transcends the workplace and impacts every aspect of our lives. We challenge the traditional notions of professionalism, offering a broader perspective rooted in ethics and character.
Discover the eight essential traits that define true professionalism, including respect, integrity, and emotional intelligence. Through our journeys, encounters, and experiences we underline the importance of authentic professionalism, especially when under stress. We delve into why staying true to one's word can significantly impact both personal and professional relationships, and how a committed approach to these traits can lead to career growth and personal fulfillment.
From personal anecdotes about grad school during COVID to navigating workplace meetings, we examine the role of emotional intelligence and the evolving nature of professionalism. Technology and generational differences are reshaping our work values and expectations, leading to shifting definitions of professionalism. We underscore the importance of understanding these generational mindsets to foster empathy and cohesiveness in the workplace. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on how professionalism is continuously adapting in our ever-changing world.
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Hello everyone, Welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour.
Speaker 2:It's been quite the month. A bunch of different things happening this month, so it's nice to be back behind the mic.
Speaker 1:I don't know where this month went. We're in July and yesterday was like July 5th and today is the end of the month, so I don't know where this month went. But I do want to preface with. If you all hear a little bit stuffiness in my voice, I apologize. I am recovering from COVID, so we're good, I'm here, it's all good, but I'm recovering and I'm still a little stuffy.
Speaker 2:We are good and she is here and she's back. Man, oh man, it's so nice to be. Every time I spend time with Armin. H is the best, so I'm glad she's doing okay too. But yes, this month has gone by super fast. So many things are happening. It did feel like the 4th of July yesterday and now it's July 26th. Um, crazy stuff, crazy stuff. It's already August.
Speaker 1:It's back to school season, everybody's back to school and yes, I was at Target the other day and they already had you know where they have their seasonals. They had back to school stuff and I was like no, I'm not ready. Like where's the summer stuff? And then I passed by that seasonal section and there was like a little section where they showed all the summer stuff and I was like we're still in summer.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's insane. People go back to school. We live in California and within LA, so people go back to school like the third week of August, which is in like three weeks, and then universities and colleges, just depending on what type of system you're on but we don't start UCLA doesn't start school till later. Um, so we have a little bit of time, but once August hits and the rest of the world is back in in their cycle, I mean you have to go back to so yeah, and then honestly, like season wise, once it hits September, summer is over.
Speaker 1:Even though the actual season changes at the end of September, I feel like once you're in September, you're no longer in summer seriously yeah, so we have one month left yeah, let's make the most of it. To our listeners. We hope that you have had a better July than we had and that you are enjoying your summer and taking uh breaks and taking care of yourselves as much as possible absolutely, absolutely well.
Speaker 2:Why don't we kick it off armonay? Tell us what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:okay, yes, we are talking about professionalism and whether professionalism is still around. Is it what we thought it used to be? Is it dead? Is it around? We don't know. Let's talk about it. It's a bunch of hocus pocus.
Speaker 2:You got me thinking about like fall, and all I'm thinking about now is hocus pocus. But, um, seriously, so fall is the best. But yeah, is professionalism dead? Is it still alive? Does it exist? What is it to you? What is it to me? Professionalism is, exists and has it still exists. Well, let's start there. It still exists. Well, let's start there. It still exists in the workplace and in different environments. I have a little bit different of a definition when it comes to what this means than a typical human being in our society, but it looks different and has evolved over the last couple of years more rapidly than ever.
Speaker 1:Well, what would you say, is your definition, mj?
Speaker 2:more rapidly than ever. Well, what would you say, is your definition, mj? For me, professionalism isn't just something that is evoked or that happens when you are in the workplace or in a specific setting. It happens the moment you wake up and the moment you go to sleep. I really do think of professionalism as when you are walking down the street and you are smiling to someone who's walking your way, whether you say hi to someone who is passing by you or you greet someone the moment you walk into a building or into a space.
Speaker 2:An example I used recently was like when you go to the doctor's office, right, whether you say good morning to the receptionist or not to check in for your appointment. Things like that, for me, define professionalism in many, many ways, and I think it was because I grew up watching the women in my life work very low class jobs and because they were seen at the bottom of the pyramid. I had to see the way they were treated and how they treated others as well. So for me, professionalism really comes to every core part of who you are and it's how you treat a human being on another level.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that. I love that it. It does go beyond just the workplace and it's just more of a uh, it speaks to your character and how you conduct yourself when no one's watching, right yeah, it's funny because in spanish.
Speaker 2:So my, my parents are from central america and my dad my dad owned a business when I was younger and he always used to tell me um, it's, um, it's a person's ethics. It's just how you live your life, and I think that I, watching my parents kind of work these type of opportunities. More so my mom and my mom's family as nannies and housekeepers. It really was their ethics and their morals as humans and what they valued, so it was really important. That's something that I've always carried with me that goes beyond what I do from nine to five.
Speaker 1:I love that, yeah, because I feel like it's one thing to quote unquote act professional in a work setting where your boss is like two doors down and your co workers are watching you, and then it's another thing to truly be that way authentically in your all aspects of your life. So it goes deeper than just what we might think when we think of the word professionalism, what we traditionally think. It definitely goes deeper than that and it speaks to your character and your ethics, like you said. I love that. So, with that said to our listeners, we actually encourage you all to think about what does professionalism mean to you, just generally, when you hear the word, what are some traits or characteristics that come to your mind and in what kind of settings do you also attribute professionalism to? Because everyone understands professionalism differently and we all have our own different views to it.
Speaker 1:I will say that to me it used to be more of a that traditional sense of like you think you dress a certain way, you work in an office. To me, that's what professionalism meant growing up, and it wasn't until like learning about how life works and learning about the world of work and how there are so many different types of occupations, and they're all professional in their sense, even if you don't dress a certain way, you don't, even if you don't work in an office, but if you are knowledgeable about the work that you do, you do it with passion. You do a good job at the work that you do. You do it with passion. You do a good job at the work that you do. You are a professional and it doesn't matter what kind of work it is or how you show up like physically dressed up going to work, or what kind of setting it is. So that's something that has evolved for me and my idea of professionalism as I've become a career counselor and a worker right.
Speaker 2:I love that you talked briefly about how you present yourself to the way how you present yourself in the world. Recently I was talking to someone and I'll tell you, I was wearing like my gym clothes. I had just come back from the gym and I was like really sweaty this is like too much detail, but I was like really sweaty this is like too much detail, but I was like super sweaty. I was like after a long day of work. It was not my best presentation of myself and I was. I was.
Speaker 2:Somebody had struck up a conversation with me, where I was and because of the way I was dressed, you could tell. Well, I'll tell you what happened. No-transcript for me. Like I'm myself wherever I go. Like I'm. If I'm going to laugh really, really loud when I'm with a friend, I'm going to laugh the same in a meeting when someone makes a joke. That's just I'm, that's who I am. And it was interesting to see how, when people like that idea of professionalism still stays true to others, right, and where you are, and how differently you can be treated based off of your appearance, off of the way you're speaking, something that I recently like I was like well, like I noticed that and it was interesting. I was like, wow, some people really still hold this traditional view of it.
Speaker 1:I was like wow, some people really still hold this traditional view of it. Wow, yeah, that is. I mean, it's actually unfortunate, right To think like in society we still see people kind of have that idea of status, like depending on the work that you do, there's a level of status that goes with it and then from there they adjust the way they see you and perceive you. And it's unfortunate, but it is a reality in the world that we live in.
Speaker 1:I actually, when I was a grad student, I was interning at an office in higher ed and I was at the front of like the front desk and I remember we were holding interviews for like a student, student assistant type of position. Somebody came in the door they hadn't applied yet and they like greeted me so professionally, very like what you were talking about, mj, the way they greeted me at the front desk, the way they engaged in conversations, so, so pleasant, such a sweet person, and then a couple of weeks later, when the application deadline was over for the position, come to find out this person had applied to the job. Eventually she ends up getting the job and she was telling me she's like when I walked in I was very mindful to make sure that I treated the person at the front desk very respectfully because, like I knew that, I understood that that is going to be a reflection of me and how I interact with people, because I'm not being watched right now. They don't know that I've applied for the job. I could have easily like not you know, been respectful or been as pleasant as I, but I chose to be that way because I know that that is something that could come back and bite me later on.
Speaker 1:Having applied to this job and I was like good, like you did. Great, you're very strategic because it works in your favor, because we were like oh yeah, she came into the office a couple of weeks ago, she was so pleasant to talk to, et cetera, so it actually worked in her favor and she was doing it authentically too. That is also who she was by the person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's one of the tips that we give the most when people are going on in-person or onsite interviews is to be as kind and as nice to every single person you meet, because you have no idea who's who and who they're going to ask about your presence, about your behavior, about how you showed up in the space. So if you're ever going on an on-campus, on-campus on an on-site interview or an in-person interview, definitely be very mindful of the way in which you're coming into the space.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, because I was on the hiring committee and I was the one reviewing the applications. So you know she didn't know that but it worked in her favor.
Speaker 2:Worked in her favor because she was nice to the person who she needed to be nice to and like we're saying to you want to make sure that that's authentically part of who you are, right, like you don't just want to be nice in the interview and to the person and then you show up day one and you're like horrible, that's one, not how you keep a job. You keep a job by maintaining a level of professionalism, which we're going to talk about too, what that means essentially as well. But absolutely work in her favor, yeah, yeah but absolutely worked in her favor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, at the end of the day, yes, be strategic and be mindful of these things, especially as we kind of talk about what. There are different concepts of professionalism that we'll share today. Be mindful of these things. But ultimately it does come down to like you being authentically a respectful person, authentically being knowledgeable about the work that you do and actually doing a good job and wanting to do a good job and investing your time and effort into the people that you're interacting with and the work that you're doing. So it can't be a facade. If it's a facade, it's only going to take you so far, it's only going to last for a short time, because then, when things get rough at work like people you know, you get stressed, project deadlines are coming up and things like that. If your professionalism is a facade, it's going to show when you're stressed and when times are getting rough. So you have to authentically be this way so that it could carry you through even in those difficult times way, so that it could carry you through even in those difficult times.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Armine mentioned two of the eight characteristics of professionalism that are defined by Mindworks. Mindworks put out this article that talks all about professionalism and here they list eight different attributes or characteristics to what professionalism means, and Armine mentioned two. Of those was respectful to be very respectful as you walk into a space and knowledgeable as well. Some of the other ones are having competence, right, understanding where you are, what you're doing in the level of work that you are in, conscientiousness, right. So being again aware and having that mindfulness, integrity that you have as a human being, emotional intelligence, appropriateness and confidence. Arminia, do any of these stand out to you in particular?
Speaker 1:Yes, integrity stands out to me so much because that concept is actually so deep. When we talk about someone having integrity, there's a lot that comes with that. So integrity is, uh, staying true to your word, right, and and following through on the things that you promise that you're gonna do at work or in your personal life, regardless, um. So I think that if you are promising a level of work when you're interviewing or when you're already on the job and you're saying, yes, I will do this, and then follow like if you don't follow through, to me that is a big red flag, and so I think integrity is so important. It says, it shows so much about a person's level of honesty to themselves and to other people, and it's also like if you're not following through on your word, then I personally can see that as like being shady or not having good intentions around other people and not respecting other people, right, and so I think for me, integrity holds a lot of weight.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I cannot agree more Integrity for me. It's something that I notice in someone when, especially when I'm working with someone else, like on a project or on a committee, or if I'm watching the person work, that's not what you said you were going to do, or that's not what you said you were going to advocate for, or you completely forgot about the main part of what we talked about. That's. That's a loss of integrity for that person because they're not seeing necessarily the benefit for you, your team or your center, your institution, but they're seeing the benefit for them and their position right and their bosses. So I've always looked for integrity for those who are managing, supervising or leaders in my life. It's something that I think instilled in me like as a kid again, like coming from parents who, well, one of them struggled a lot with keeping their word, the other didn't, and I learned to value what that meant in my family dynamics as well and I carried that into the different supervisors and managers that I've had in my life and I really do value integrity and a leader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I think it's so important for anyone to have integrity, and if not just as a leader, but if you do want to become a leader one day, it's definitely a really important quality as a leader. If you do want to become a leader one day, it's definitely a really important quality as a leader. But even for those who are not in those types of roles, I think, just in any kind of capacity, integrity is super important. Yeah, which ones stand out to you from all of them, mj?
Speaker 2:Oh, appropriateness. From the first time I saw this list, appropriateness was the one that stood out to me immediately. I feel like the other seven competence, knowledge, conscientious integrity, respect, emotional intelligence and confidence kind of um. They're almost like assumed characteristics of what professionalism is. But appropriateness is something that can be dependable. Um, appropriateness is something that I see where it really depends on the situation, environment that you're in and how a person behaves. I really do see this a lot with our students, especially when and I'm talking about all students that I've ever worked with in my life Students who know you or people who know you in a specific position or staff or relationship treat you very differently and you have a different relationship with them.
Speaker 2:So, even with coworkers, friends, family, whatever that looks like, there's a level of appropriateness. When it comes to professionalism and behaving with someone in a specific space right, if the way I hang out with Armanay after work, there's a different level of appropriateness where, when it comes to when we're both working in the office, right, conversation topics will shift, maybe our language will shift, maybe the music we listen to will shift, whereas when I'm working with a friend and I'm talking about their their I did this recently when I'm talking about their goals and their dreams and we're in like a career counseling session, versus when we're both in front of our family, the level of appropriateness and professionalism that I'm going to have is going to be very different as well. So I think this one people struggle with, because this also get mixed, mixed up a lot with authenticity. Right, oh, but that's my authentic self. But, yes, I firmly believe to be your authentic self. But there's also the the shifting of level and appropriateness to how your behavior is in specific environments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think people struggle with this one too, because they think like if you're going to behave in a certain way, that's appropriate for your work environment, that you are, that's what being professional means, and then outside of that environment you're like a completely different person. So there's two different versions of me. I hear people say that a lot like oh yeah, that's my work version and this is my personal. But it's not because, like with everything we've been saying up to this point, it's how you treat people and how you present yourself in all areas of your life. It's going to filter through, even in a work setting or outside of a work setting. So professionalism comes down to your true character.
Speaker 1:But yes, you do kind of have to make some shifts depending on the environment that you're in, and this is going to look different for different industries, different types of companies. There's different company cultures. The type of dresses that's appropriate in one culture is going to be different for the other industry. The type of the way you like send emails or messages to your team or to the clients that you work with is going to vary based on industry and company. So appropriateness is not like if you're appropriate, you're professional and then.
Speaker 1:And then there's a personal version of you that's a completely different person. It's not like that. It's just you have to pick up on those non-verbal cues as to what what is okay to do in certain environments, and you do that in your personal lives too, not just in work settings. You have to be able to to do in certain environments, and you do that in your personal lives too, not just in work settings. You have to be able to function in society. You have to be able to look at what is okay to say or do in certain environments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't have said that better myself and I think, especially during the world that we live in currently, in the society where it's everything is like extremely polarized, you need to understand what is the level of appropriateness in your space, in your workspace. You know, there's so many different issues happening in the world where, yes, we all have freedom of speech, but that depends like where you work and what you do, and I've been thinking a lot about that recently and how someone's level of appropriateness really depends on various and it just really it looks different for every human being. But one funny enough that I was like oh, I love that this is here and this I really wasn't kind of expecting, it was confidence.
Speaker 1:Me too. I had the same reaction. Because you think of confidence as like, you don't think of like if someone doesn't have confidence in themselves, you don't think like oh, they're not professional because they're not confident in themselves.
Speaker 2:I see it almost as like a plus one. It's like a plus one if you are professional and then you have that level of confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I like the way they described it, because they're saying that well-founded confidence reassures and motivates other people, boosting your ability to influence and lead. It also pushes you to take on new challenges, and so I can see how, in that sense, like if you're thinking of a team and there's a person who, like, willingly volunteers for new tasks and projects, um, they, even if that's something they haven't done before, but they're kind of demonstrating like confidence that I'll be able to figure it out I can see how that would be like, oh yeah, this person's so professional because they are putting an effort to do a good job. You know it's more. It's more about that than anything else, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also saw it too. I think what you're trying to say is a little bit of initiative. I saw that in there too, and that's that's what I really love. One of, if you like, something that I love to see in coworkers and people that I work with, teams and just individuals that I surround myself is initiative. I love to see initiative and people. It's just from the culture and the family I came from. But if I don't see that in someone, there's almost like an orange flag goes off in my head. My partner and I talk about this all the time because that has to do with my level of productivity and how I take initiative in different areas.
Speaker 1:So this for me was like, yes, if you don't have initiative in that level of confidence to want to do something and grow or try something out or lead in that way there is not necessarily that you're not professional, but I love that this is an aspect considered as well yeah, another one of these that stood out to me a little bit was emotional intelligence, because I feel like we don't talk about that enough in just in society like it's there, and if you're in the fields of psychology, child development, you probably have heard of it before, and then otherwise I don't think people talk about emotional intelligence that much.
Speaker 1:And so I really love emotional intelligence because I think that, again, there's a lot of depth to this concept of being able to manage your emotions and actually understand your emotions, which, like, for someone to be able to do that, you have to have a lot of self-awareness, and a lot of you have had to have spent a lot of time reflecting on yourself to understand why you might feel a certain way about a certain thing.
Speaker 1:So I think there's a lot of depth around emotional intelligence. I really love that topic and I think it's cool that they're kind of associating it with professionalism, because it's true, like we were saying earlier, if work gets stressful Because it's true, like we were saying earlier, if work gets stressful, things get busy, project deadlines are coming up, people's ideas aren't, people have different ideas about a project and they're not in agreement those kinds of situations can easily, you know, we might feel a certain way we might feel upset, we might feel like our voice isn't being heard or we're not being valued as employees, and things like that, and so when those kinds of emotions come up, it's in the way that we react that is going to demonstrate if we're conducting ourselves professionally or not yeah, I think you can tell.
Speaker 2:This one is almost like uh, if you sit back and observe people's behavior, you can see who has emotional intelligence, like the levels of emotional intelligence that people have in different workspaces.
Speaker 2:I have worked in spaces where I will like awareness goes out the window and this person has no idea or concept of how they're reacting or behaving or how maybe their decisions, their, their language, impacts the people who they work with. And I'm like whoa, you really have no sense of like there's no meter in you saying like this may not be the most appropriate thing to say, or this group of people might take this the wrong way, or maybe I should think a little bit more about what I'm going to say before I say it. So this one for me, is always one that I can see while I observe individuals who I've worked with before or like have different examples, even in grad school. I was going to graduate school during COVID online and a lot of people had feelings about that and it was really clear to see the level of emotional intelligence in some graduate students versus others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And in the workplace too.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can think of a clear example that we just had today where we were in a meeting and there was emotion emotions on both ends, and you can. And I had to check myself. I know that for sure, because I was feeling certain things about what was being said in the meeting and I was like, should I, should I bring up this concept? Should I say this, should I like challenge what they're saying? And then I know I like sent MJ a chat, like oh wait, I think this is what's going on right now. And then I had to check myself and be like hold on, let me take a step back, because the conversation is actually starting to go the way that I want, so I don't need to provoke this any further, even though I was feeling a certain way about something, and it ended up working out better that I didn't ask the question that I wanted to ask. So I think, now that we're talking about emotional intelligence, I feel like that was a moment where I was like gambling with my own emotions and managing them.
Speaker 2:And this is one where it's not like once you've mastered it, once you have it for the rest of your life. This is one of those things where it's like growth mindset, where it's always going to fluctuate and emotional intelligence is going to be different for everyone depending on the situation. The more personal it is to you, I feel like you are going to have a harder time thinking about this because you can't take yourself out of the situation. But if I'm looking at the meeting that was today from a third person's perspective, I'm not going to really understand how MJ and Armine felt, because I'm not them. I'm looking at it from a different lens. So the more, the more first person you are to the experience, your situation, your emotional intelligence is going to fluct, fluctuate, so this is always something we have to work on yeah, 100 always something.
Speaker 1:I think the same goes for confidence. It's not like a one-time master skill set, um, and everything else. Competence and knowledge those are always going to be shifting and evolving as you take on new roles and responsibilities at work. So I think all of these are things that can be, you know, that evolve over time as we grow and develop new skills as a professional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, professionalism there's there's. So, with these within these eight I've talked about this before in the workplace and there's usually there's there. So, with these within these eight I've talked about this before in the workplace and there's usually there's like three groups that I like to kind of categorize. These eight and the way in which someone is a professional or what professionalism means, and my three bubbles or groupings are always your behavior, your appearance and your language, and that, I think, is I. I am.
Speaker 2:This is like a something that I was looking up earlier this year and it was these three words I always came to me when I was kept reading about what professionalism meant in the workplace and how to demonstrate it. So these came from MJ's brain, um think. I always think about these when I come. When it comes to professionalism, it's how I behave, how I'm showing up in a space, so not necessarily how I look, but how I show up in a space, your appearance and my language. What is the language that I'm using? Not necessarily meaning bad or provocative language, but am I being mindful with how I'm speaking or the words that I'm using, or the tone I have as well? So behavior, appearance and language are always going to be, for me, the three categories I think about when it comes to professionalism.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, those are great ways to kind of put these concepts into umbrellas as we think more about professionalism and what it means to us. And I like the when you say appearance, it's not just about how you're dressed, but it's how you show up and it's the energy that you show up with and the attitude with. And the attitude. Are you going in with a positive attitude, mindset about the work environment, or are you going in with a more negative idea? Because it's going to show up in the language you use. It's going to show up in whether you volunteer and take initiative or not. It's going to show up in the level of work that you put out if you're going with a positive mindset or negative mindset 100.
Speaker 2:All right, let's talk about some of the generational differences that exist with professionalism.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is such an interesting concept because right now in the world of work, we have Gen Z, gen Y.
Speaker 2:Gen X, Gen X and Gen A, the generation alpha, which your baby is now going to be a part of. I think. I think he's Gen Gen B, though because I think so, because alpha is like the 10 year olds right now and I think he's Gen B?
Speaker 1:Oh, I don don't know, I don't know, but but they're not in the workforce yet. Alpha and b are not in the workforce yet. No, but they're online.
Speaker 2:These kids are online and instagram pages.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is true. So I guess, if we consider that, then they are in the workforce, if they're on YouTube with their own channels, but in like, if we're doing traditional world of work, we have z, x and y right, so different from one another. If we think about the age range too, what's the age range? We have like 60, 65 year olds, all the way to like 18 year olds or 16 year olds, even right now, and the differences between these generations and three generations. If you think of like three generations of people living in a household, imagine what that's like and then take that to the workplace.
Speaker 1:Three generations of people, workplace mj your face I'm laughing because I'm like just come home with me and then you'll experience what that looks like yeah, yeah, needless to say, it's going to be challenging, because different generations were raised differently, with different values and different, different ideas, and and then technology is another big factor in in this component, because technology has advanced so much that we have the Gen Xers, who are probably not that great with, generally speaking, not as advanced with technology, and then you have the Gen Z, who's sitting next to them in the office and they know so much more about technology. That factor alone is going to make a huge difference in the way that they work together not to them in the office and they know so much more about technology. That factor alone is going to make a huge difference in the way that they work together, not to mention all the other things of what their ideas of professionalism is, what their ideas of appropriateness is, how you should show up and so forth is going to be very different to among the generation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because every time I think of the generational difference between someone who is on the older side of the generation versus someone who's on the younger side, there's always the idea of that the younger individuals don't work as hard as the older ones, or didn't work as hard as the older ones, so they have like a life and a work that is so much more easier now than it used to be before.
Speaker 2:And I think that's where a lot of like the tension comes from. It's like, oh well, it's so easy for this, like 18 year old, to have their AI note taker take notes for them in a meeting, when I used to have to write it down and put it on some bulletin board somewhere for the whole office to see, I don't know. Like those are things that I think about when I think about the older generation versus the newer one, where there's a there's a level of tension within, like I had to work hard to do this and you don't have to work as hard as I did. And that's where, like, a lot of things kind of go out the window. And that's why I think people, when they show up to work, their level of professionalism is very different because their jobs look very different than how they used to, or the way in which women can just show up to work and are allowed to work, didn't look that way like a hundred years ago, 50 years ago.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. Uh, the that factor and then also what work means to people has evolved, and then also what work means to people has evolved. So for an older generation, work could just be like this is a way for me to go and survive, like I make money to meet my basic needs and take care of my family. I don't need to be fulfilled, I don't need to be passionate, I don't need to be authentically me in the workplace, right, like all that stuff sounds like fluff to to somebody who's in the older generation and the work is more of a practical idea for them. Then we have our younger generation who's like I want to express myself and these are the values that I'm coming in with and I want to be seen and valued and I want to work on projects that are aligned with me, and that's a different, completely different mindset about what work is and what the purpose that work serves in our lives is very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to an older, an older person. Older could mean so many different things. A job is sometimes just a job to them, whereas to the younger generation and I'm going to include myself because I'm not I haven't in the sense of work, I don't have a tenured yet, I don't even have five years yet it's. There's this sense of passion and purpose and I want to feel fulfilled. But it's funny because this generation is also like my work. My life shouldn't be everything about it and there's more to life than just work, whereas sometimes and the opposite, that's also what it used to be people used to live, to go to work and now people work. How does it go? People used to you live for your job, and well, it used to work to live and live to work.
Speaker 1:There. You, you go, there you go. Yeah, because if we're thinking our work is our passion and it's our identity and it's how I express myself and the things that are important to me, then you're living to work because that's your life, that's who you are, that's how you identify. A big part of your identity is embedded into the work that you do. And then and for somebody who just goes to work, does their job, goes home to a completely different lifestyle. They want to resonate with that, and so those mindsets, you're already coming in with different mindsets. Our generations are going to have very different ideas of what professionalism means, what's appropriate and what to even expect from your company, what to expect from your leaders. I think our younger generation has higher expectations because they're identifying more, they're identifying differently with the work that they do, so they naturally have more expectations from the workplace too.
Speaker 2:I'm laughing because I was recently told by a colleague. They're like wow, it's so cute how you still have expectations and I was like, wait, does no one else have expectations?
Speaker 1:but me it's okay. My husband told me that I have too high expectations from people in the workplace and work in general. I was like, what do you mean? I don't know how to have lower expectation exactly what is that?
Speaker 2:I was like sitting there, like wait, were you not expecting that thing to happen? Because I was, and I was so disappointed when it didn't. But I guess, like it is what it is.
Speaker 1:It is what it is it is and so I think you know there's nothing we can do about the generational differences and their ideas of what professionalism means, except be aware of it so think about which generation you identify with and who your co-workers are and who your leaders are in the workplace that you, that you work at and um go in with that idea of like.
Speaker 1:this person's mindset about professionalism might be very different than mine, based on our generation. Just having that understanding will allow you to be more conscientious and possibly find more appropriateness in the way that you present yourself, so that people everyone can at least have some kind of common ground in the workplace despite the generational differences Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, you heard it here first. Professionalism is not dead. It still exists. It just looks very differently for everyone. Of course, social media and different technologies have influenced our version, and our lived experiences have also impacted the way in which we act and choose to behave in a professional what we consider to be professional settings. As you heard it here from both Armine and I, it's how you just live your life every day. It's how you treat someone as you would in a drive-thru coffee line, the same way you would treat a fruit vendor on the street. That's the way I choose to see it. Professionalism is going to be forever evolving. Know that. It's not something that's going to stay stagnant and people are going to have different versions and expectations of what that looks like. So it's important to know, as you're also navigating the workspace and what that looks like for you and your next job.