Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
Discover the Secrets of the Hidden Job Market
Unlock the secrets of navigating the hidden job market and uncover unexpected career opportunities. This episode of Coffee and Career Hour highlights a unique perspective on job search. Join us as we share personal stories of landing jobs through unadvertised channels, explore the reasons behind the existence of the hidden job market, and highlight its impact on equity and accessibility. You'll also gain insights into why companies often choose not to advertise openings and how internal hiring can streamline their processes.
We'll also discuss the immense power of authenticity in networking. Hear real-life examples of how genuine conversations about personal passions can lead to career breakthroughs. Discover why being true to yourself is essential in making meaningful professional connections. Plus, learn how to leverage LinkedIn and social media to stay connected and uncover hidden job opportunities. This episode is packed with practical tips to help you unlock the hidden job market and advance your career by being your authentic self. Tune in for a fresh perspective on how to navigate the complexities of job hunting and career fulfillment.
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It is fall.
Speaker 2:Is it really Arminé? The sun says something different.
Speaker 1:Listen, it's September, regardless of what the weather is. Once it hits September, we are entering fall. I know, officially the end of September is when the season starts, but in my mind and in my heart, once it's September 1st, we're in fall.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, you, but my body disagrees. I am sweating every day disgustingly. No, it is. It is nasty, hot, and you know what's the worst part? Pumpkin patches are starting to pop up oh yes, that's not cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's. It feels like I feel thrown off when it's. But then we're like pumpkin spice latte is out at Starbucks and we're seeing pumpkin flavored candles at Target and I'm like the weather doesn't make sense much. But with that I mean fall quarter is starting at UCLA soon. We are like head over heels preparing for the quarter. It's gonna be busy. New school year, new me. Yes, yes. New school year, new me. But for our listeners, welcome, welcome to Coffee and Career Hour. We started talking about fall because it's one of my favorite seasons.
Speaker 2:It's one of mine too. Honestly, like fall and spring are my favorites, I really enjoy fall. I am so excited to like dress, fall colors, fall smell, fall, see, fall, love, fall, drink, fall everything, everything, fall.
Speaker 1:I agree. Me too, fall and spring are my favorites. Spring because it is like fresh and it's like a new beginning. It's bright and fun and sunny. And then fall is so like cozy and homey and warm and so all the like lovey-dovey feelings that I really enjoy I love it, me too, you know what else is lovey-dovey?
Speaker 2:Yes, Feeling satisfied and fulfilled in your career.
Speaker 1:OMG, it is. It really is. As you all know, to our listeners, we talk about career fulfillment, career satisfaction, all throughout this podcast. It's like an underlying theme with pretty much every episode that we post out there, and in today's episode we're going to be kind of talking about how to find opportunities that are going to help you feel fulfilled and satisfied.
Speaker 2:Armin. A fun fact, I got this job through the hidden job market.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, you did. Do you want to tell our listeners what the hidden job market is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, peekaboo Hidden job market is here to scare you. Market is yeah, peekaboo hidden job market is here to scare you. Um, the hidden job market is essentially the opportunities that are not posted anywhere, they're not shown widely. Or, um, an opposite side, if you are someone who's working somewhere, there could be like an internal job board that's only seen for the current employees of that organization, right? Or your supervisor is just looking for a certain amount of employees that they already have in mind. So these, the hidden job market, is a ton of opportunities that are not advertised to the public. So it's things that you get referred to, it's things that you get told, it's things that you find out through happenstance. But we're going to get in all of those crevices today.
Speaker 1:Yes, isn't that insane that a hidden job market?
Speaker 2:exists. Honestly, for me it's not equitable. Yeah, I mean like from a counselor standpoint, this is not equitable.
Speaker 1:It isn't. It's because not everybody has access to the same resources, the same network, the same um opportunities to connect and find out about these uh opportunities, and so it's bizarre to me, because the more technology advances, the more we have job search websites. Every day, there's like a new job search website that comes out, right, sure. And regardless of having all these websites and now even social media, there's like job postings, right. Regardless of all of that, there's still a hidden job market, like.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's something that like should have existed 50 years ago but should no longer exist yeah, and the crazy part is people now know not to apply to jobs through those third-party platforms like Monstercom, like the Muse. Because, why? Because we're telling you to go directly to the career portal page of that organization. Right, it's insane, it's a business, it's honestly a business.
Speaker 1:It is. It is Just like any other industry out there. It has its quirks and things that we need to learn to navigate. So we're here to tell you all about the hidden job market and how to navigate that process.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So why does the hidden job market exist?
Speaker 2:Well, armanay, let's go back to the 1950s. Just kidding, we're not going to go back there at all. Honestly, if we're thinking a little bit about it, not publicizing these openings, these opportunities to others really can help people save time and money, and that's what every company wants to do. They want to save money, they want to cut down on their budget right, they don't want to touch anything, they don't want to waste resources, essentially, and time. It takes a lot of time to either have your HR post or you yourself, depending on how your organization runs. If you're the hiring manager, post review applications, I cannot tell you how time consuming that is.
Speaker 2:Interviewing people interviewing the wrong people right, and you don't even know if they're wrong because on their application or their resume they look so well. And then you end up like sometimes going with an internal hire, which is stressful because we could have just done that in the first place.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, honestly. Hiring is so draining for companies.
Speaker 2:The amount of resources.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they need to put the time, the energy, the resources they need to pull together to hire somebody is insane, which is why I could see how it could be motivating for a company to not advertise a position if they already have an internal candidate in mind, and so forth. And yes, there are laws around you have to post a job for at least two weeks. Even if you're hiring internally or so it needs to be posted for at least two weeks. But when it comes to like publicizing some of these or marketing that these positions are available, a lot of times it doesn't happen or calling them something else than what they're not like, giving it a completely different title than what it's hired to do yeah, I mean it's them the person, sorry, yeah yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 1:So I could see how like it could be motivating to not publicize positions to save money and time and energy. Another reason why the hidden job market exists is because if the company is, let's say, creating this new position, they're being innovative, they're being creative, they're going a different direction. They don't want their competition to know what they're up to, so they're being sneaky about hiring this really cool new position to test it out and see how it works and what you know how it impacts their company without their competition knowing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sneaky, sneak. I can totally see how, like corporate America will do that, because they're all in competition with each other. And higher education we're silly. We just copy what every other like institution, program department is doing and we just roll with it like if it was our own idea and that happens everywhere, like, honestly, we've been, we've been. You've been doing this for a lot longer than me, but tell me, armonay, how many times have we brought up the same idea and then, every time we hear, we act like it's something new?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, we reinvent the wheel a million times in higher education in education in general, but that's just the way our field works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every year we have a new idea, but then it's like it was already done before, and then it just seems like it's a new idea, and then we roll with it, and then the next year we're like OK, let's come up with a whole new idea for this thing.
Speaker 1:Uh, the higher ed is its own issue, its own beast. But regardless of what industry you're in, the hidden job market does exist. Um, it could work in your favor if you can play your cards right. So we're going to talk a little bit about how you can do that today yeah, one of the one of the biggest things, um, is networking.
Speaker 2:That's no surprise. You have to network in your life, you, okay? Well, let's hold on Rewind. What is networking? Why is it important? Um, we can talk so much about its benefits, really, but networking honestly, in all honesty, has a different definition in everyone's head. Networking for you has worked differently than networking for me, than it has the rest of society, so our experiences are very different and that's how we choose to define it In my language. I honestly see this as a transactional thing. I am connecting with you so I can benefit from it, but I'm not seeing how I can add to you when I think about what I can offer to you as well. That's a connection, that's a relationship. That's not a network for you Collectively. You have a group of connections, a that's not a network for you Collectively. You have a group of connections, a network is people you go to like a leech, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I see it as a negative because that's how it was framed to me, a connection is, and relationships are something that are long term where networking feels more short term for me, yeah, of us people in society have some sort of negative connotation around networking because we do think of it as this transactional or this like I'm trying to gain something from you type of experience. But in reality, and what we are really trying to emphasize in the career center as career counselors, and the work that we do trying to teach people that networking is actually making meaningful connections, the right way to do networking, is actually a positive thing. You're building relationships with people in in society and those relationships are can open doors to opportunities. But that's not the reason you're making those relationships.
Speaker 2:You're making them because you're connecting genuinely with people in your life resourced background. It's nothing like that. It's just for me. That's the way I understood, and my students who identify similarly or in some type of parallel feel more comfortable when I say it's your career community, it's people who are going to be there to support you through the ups, through the downs, through the layoff, through the offer, through the negotiation, through the grad school, through the whatever right it's. It's not I'm just going to connect with armonia because she's colleague at this one place, but it's. I'm going to connect with Armani for the lifetime, not only because of the podcast.
Speaker 2:but because we're both in industry, Even if you're in separate industry, it's really a fruitful relationship where you both grow and develop together and you can support one another in your different positions in your career.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, One hundred percent. And going through your career journey, you don't want it to be a lonely process. And going through your career journey, you don't want it to be a lonely process.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Right. Having these connections and people that can support you through the ups and the downs is really going to make the process a lot more fruitful. You're going to have more opportunities to learn about yourself, learn from other people, grow and just feel like you have a support system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I recently heard this quote at a. I've been going to a lot of weekend student programs and I heard one of the speakers say this if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And that has stayed with me because I think about all the times where, as an introvert, I wanted to do things on my own and figure it out, because I was just that resilient, independent, first-gen person who didn't want to ask for help because she was embarrassed. But then, when I did in grad school, I've come a long, long way because I've come with my community. I've come with people who are cheering me on, who are supporting me, who are offering me opportunities that I never in my life would have ever imagined, where, if I would have just been like, thanks for teaching me that one class great, got my degree and go on with my life independently.
Speaker 2:I honestly don't think I would have gone super far, I would have gone fast in whatever direction and been in a job that I probably hate.
Speaker 1:But you know, story goes on yeah, it's amazing sometimes, um, I think for both of us actually, the networking slash, making connections piece kind of happened naturally. We didn't even know we were doing it, and so building those connections authentically has really helped us in our careers. Could share my story without realizing I was in when I was in grad school, talking to my professors and and my cohort and stuff. Talking about the things that I enjoy and that I'm passionate about, had led me to multiple opportunities. One specific opportunity I can think of is when I got my internship at the Career Center in graduate school. It was just through me sharing how excited I was about career development, that they had recommended me amongst my cohort that Armony is really into this, so let's give her the opportunity.
Speaker 1:I was not doing this strategically to try to get a foot in the door, nothing like that. It was just genuinely me talking to my supervisor, my cohort members, about what I was interested in. That led to my internship and then fast forward another year or two. It led me to a teaching opportunity, again from my professors, knowing that I'm passionate about career development, and there was a position that opened up to teach graduate students in my program and they had reached out to me to see if I would be interested in teaching Again. All from just me sharing how excited I was about this industry.
Speaker 2:Well, one who wouldn't want you to be their professor? I've learned so much from you in the last what is almost like three years. It's bizarre, like the amount of growth that I have experienced from you. It's just a whole, nother level. I'm just. I'm a better counselor because of Armin.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no no, yes. You're so sweet.
Speaker 2:I am, but no, it's true.
Speaker 1:You are already. You came already being amazing, so I take no credit.
Speaker 2:You figured out no she takes all the credit. But I agree with you, it's sometimes it's not even like, you're not even trying, like even when you're walking. So, for example, we do presentations like at least once a week, you don't even know who's going to be in the room. You have no idea who you're going to see along the way, like so many random things that happen where there was once I was going to a presentation and I ran into someone I knew and then from there they're like oh my gosh, I've heard so much about you, I want you to come speak at, like, the new hires for UCLA and I was like what in the world? Like and this was so happenstance, and I connected with them, got their email, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:But it's opportunities like that, where you're your most real self, that you really do leave an impact and an impression on people. Um, networking is we're taught to, for it to be the most polished version of yourself, very clean cut, very businessy, corporate. That's what we think of, that's what, at least, I think of. And when, now, when I think about it, I think about it as like, how can I be my most authentic self? I mean not really because I do it naturally, but that just automatically leaves an impression on people. But some people have to think about that. And how do I be myself in the space where I want to also showcase that I'm a professional?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I think it is a develop, it is a skill that you can develop. I think you do it really well, thanks, yeah, you are probably like a prime example of somebody who just does it so naturally, because you genuinely, through your energy, are showing that you are knowledgeable and you have these skills. But you're doing it because you love the work that you do. I do.
Speaker 1:And I think that is like the key component to being able to do this authentically, because, yes, it's a learned skill, but in order for it to actually truly be genuine, you have to actually be interested in the work you're doing and then be able to do it well and then people see and pick up on that energy. You can't fake that energy, like that saying fake it till you make it. I hate that saying Like it is so, not true, because you can't truly make it if you're not knowledgeable about the work you're doing, if you don't have the skill sets, if you don't have the passion, the energy for it. I don't think you could truly make it.
Speaker 2:I agree, and I think it really does give the wrong impression to people because they're not really sure of who they're working with or connecting with. It's not the real version of you. It's like what is it?
Speaker 1:they say, like tell me, tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are.
Speaker 2:It's really. It's really that idea, and we I will say too that your career doesn't always have to give you that spark to feel that way. So when you're connecting with other people, it doesn't always have to be about professional experiences or opportunities. It literally can be over. Hey, what are you doing this summer? Hey, um, we're in the same coffee shop. Oh, my gosh, you ordered that. I love that. I've never tried that. Is that something you've tried? But, like, random things that exist in the world that happen lead to so much hidden opportunity out there. Yeah, and that's that can't even be career related, or it can change you and shift you into a new career opportunity yeah, yeah, you would do that.
Speaker 1:That small talk that we say can really lead to like oh my gosh, you're interested in this. I know this position, why don't you apply, etc. And actually you do that small talk really well. It's so funny. I actually don't like small talk. Oh, I would have never guessed. You guys should see her in action. She does, she does it really well.
Speaker 1:So I think that that that's a learned skill and if you're able to do that, naturally it it does lead to like, hey, I know you're good at this or I know you're interested in this, why don't you apply to this? I mean to throw out some statistics out there. Up to 70 of all jobs are not published publicly.
Speaker 2:That's bizarre, isn't that insane? That's what I mean by it not being equitable, but I get it. I get it, but it's not equitable yeah, no, I, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:And and up to around 80 of jobs are filled through networking that I believe, that I believe, but people have the wrong idea of what that means. So some people think like, like, for example, our populations that we work with. They're getting degrees and they want to go into the job force Like 60% of them, right? The other 30, 40% want to go into graduate school. Let's be real, if not more, if I'm getting that wrong. So what that looks like is not necessarily you network with alumni and professionals and you immediately go into the job of your dreams. That's not the networking we mean. It's these long-term experiences that guide you in your path in your journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this 80 percent doesn't mean that 80 percent of new graduates or people who are transitioning or in your roles right now are getting jobs through networking and that's the end-all be-all to the problem solving of this. No, it happens long term. It happens to those relationships and one of the most important things you need to know, it's not always necessarily about who you know, because I have like a lot of linkedin connections, but that doesn't mean anything if I can only tell you the 10 people that I actually really, really, really know me, and those 10 people are speaking my name in different spaces, different organizations, different teams, to different leaders, to different audiences that can draw me in for opportunity as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's not even about who you know, it's more about who knows you. Yeah, yeah. I want to bring my example of my husband, who has been doing this. Really naturally, I love the guy, the guy, he's, he's hilarious.
Speaker 2:I don't know what he's doing.
Speaker 1:He's doing so many things, but one example is he actually was His company that he used to work for reached out to him to ask him to essentially work freelance with them because he has the skills they're looking for and they wanted to hire him specifically. Let me tell you, guys, this company is has to hire him through a consulting company. My husband doesn't work for a consulting company. They are making it work. They are putting him on a consulting company's platform so that they can hire him because they want the guy.
Speaker 2:He's gold, they want his skills. No wonder you married him he's gold, he is.
Speaker 1:So they are making it work so that they can get the skills they need from him. That's amazing. Another thing that he's doing, going back to small talk, some person that he knows from some company that he he genuinely is interested in this company follows them on social media and so forth. He ended up connecting with the owner, the ceo, of that company. Um, and then that because he is so passionate about the company and knows so much about it, through Through their conversation, he's only having like an authentic conversation about how much he loves the company they are asking him to interview and work for that company, even though he's not even job searching, like he was like I'm just having a conversation with them because I genuinely like the company.
Speaker 1:And they were like dude, we really like you, can we interview you? Or actually the conversation turned into an interview and then they were like dude, we really like you, can we interview you? Or actually the conversation turned into an interview and then they were like can you send us your resume? Oh my gosh, isn't that insane? That's amazing. It is. And I swear to you like none of this was strategic on his part. It is just genuinely like things that he is passionate about that he has been able to showcase to his community and people. And it's been a long time, like it's been over quite a few years, that he's been like involved in whatever industry he's involved in, whatever industry he's involved in. So it's been over a long time. But, um, he, he's not doing any of this to like try to find a job or get a job offer, anything sneaky like that, it's just genuinely happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's the problem is people think networking is instant gratification yeah I'm gonna do it once, I'm gonna do it three times and then I'm gonna get the result I want. And that's not how it works, and you said it it yourself. It takes a long period of time. I'm not saying it's going to take five, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years for you to get there. It literally can take six months, three weeks, whatever that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a journey.
Speaker 2:You can't walk in there with like a like a time crunch. You can't be like, hey, I'm going to network for like 15 days and then I'm going to get the expect. Like that's not how it works, dude. Yeah. So really putting in the time and the effort and just knowing like you have stuff to offer too and you are connecting with this person for a reason. But remember that and always help others too, because then for stuff like this, be your authentic self. People always want to come and help you back too yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:so this all kind of boils down to personal branding too. When we say networking slash making connections with people, know that hand in hand that goes with personal branding, absolutely. So, being able to showcase your brand, what do you have to offer the world? Again, it's that energy that you bring in that is going to attract people to you.
Speaker 2:You know what I saw recently. I totally disagree with this on a resume, but I saw it and it stood out to me. Um, somebody had a mission statement, oh wow, and I I loved that. I loved that because I only ever saw that on like websites like ours not necessarily armin and I have mission statements, but like people who are running their own business or I mean companies in general too but when people actually care about what they do, because an overall organization has, like, people create a mission statement and sometimes they don't even live by that mission right or those values or whatever. So when I saw this on a resume, I loved it and was like this is your personal branding statement and that's what people need to know too is when you're putting yourself out there on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on all these platforms, you need to also share that as well, because people won't be able to identify or categorize you in a certain way as well.
Speaker 2:So, be your brand, live your brands, showcase it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. That sounds like a tagline, like be your brand, live your brand, oh I love it Well seriously, do well seriously do it please, because it's it really is, like it's the thing that people.
Speaker 2:It's that. It's. That's the impression.
Speaker 1:It's not your reputation, it's the impression you leave yeah, yeah, and it's the feeling that people get from interacting with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah like, for example, armenay isn't a resume reviewer, she's a career counselor.
Speaker 2:That's my impression of armenay for example you know, some people look at us like we're oh, we're just like resume cover letter reviewers, we're just the people who, like couldn't help you find a job. But when I see our counselors, when I see people we work with, when I see people in the field who are really passionate about that, I'm like you're a scholar, you are a researcher, like that is your brand, without you even saying that to me. So when I look at you, I felt it from the beginning like years ago, right, you're a counselor.
Speaker 2:You are not a resume reviewer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's. It all kind of boils down to energy and and authenticity. So what are some?
Speaker 2:ways that we can leverage this hidden job market and use it to our advantage. Yeah, it's uh, honestly, it's like it's things we've been saying. So make sure you you stay connected with people, right, Whatever and whatever means that, whatever, whatever that signifies to you. But it's not only stay connected with them, but make sure that they know that you are currently looking for an opportunity, um, what you're looking for and that you're looking, and I will say that sometimes you don't necessarily need to be jobless to find a job.
Speaker 2:So, for example, let's say someone who's in corporate America and they feel stuck in their position. They've been doing it for five to seven years. They're not looking for a job necessarily, but maybe they feel like they want to continue growing. So I mean now they'd be looking for a job necessarily, but maybe they feel like they want to continue growing, so I mean now they'd be looking for a job. So you don't have to be jobless to be looking for a job, is my point.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. It's actually recommended within the career world to look for your next job while you're still working in your current job.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I have a story for you, but that's next time.
Speaker 1:That's for next time. Yes, I know a story for you, but that's next time. That's for next time. Yes, I know this story and you all want to hear it. So, with that said, let's also talk a little bit about LinkedIn, because a big part of staying connected with people is social media these days. Absolutely you can't escape it. Love it, hate, it, doesn't matter. You can't escape social media, and LinkedIn, of course. Course is the professional platform to be able to maintain those connections.
Speaker 2:So checking out who's coming and who's recruiting and connecting with recruiters on LinkedIn is also a really great way to kind of find out about opportunities that aren't posted yeah, sometimes what I hear is that people will go and look through that person's history whoever's in that position or that team that they're working with to see kind of where they came from. So it's important to identify like key players in this role or in this game, really, to be honest, be the person that's going to not only identify problems and complain, but also do something, solve them.
Speaker 2:Or, if you can't try to right, connect, collaborate, teamwork, look for what that company is really seeking for. What are the problems? Honestly, when you're looking at a job description or you're being told about an opportunity, what is the problems that they're facing and how can you help fix that?
Speaker 1:Yes, and actually this works even really well in your current job, because there are always problems to solve right In any given company. So, within your current job, even if it's outside of your job responsibilities, to look for problems that exist and offer solutions, because these types of skills are what's going to send out to leadership, where they might be like oh, this person, maybe we should promote them or hire them for this other position we have, because their skills could be better used there. Absolutely yeah. And then of course, also it could work for other companies outside of where you're currently working yeah, so we leave you with?
Speaker 2:the hidden job market exists. Don't hide from it, because it's coming out and looking for you. You just really got to be aware of what's going on. Stay connected with people. Connect, build relationships, do what you need to do. Just start chatting and it'll come.