Coffee & Career Hour

Mastering Salary Negotiations: Expert Tips and Strategies for Job Seekers

• Armine & Maria Jose

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Wondering how to confidently navigate salary negotiations without feeling overwhelmed? In this episode of Coffee and Career Hour, we have you covered. Learn the secrets of effective compensation discussions, even when job postings leave you guessing. We share personal stories and expert insights, emphasizing the importance of research and networking to understand industry norms. We also discuss pay transparency laws in states like California and how to empower yourself in salary negotiations.

Discover why waiting until the later stages of the interview process before discussing compensation can be beneficial, and arm yourself with practical advice on setting realistic salary expectations. Resources like Salary.com, Payscale.com, and Glassdoor.com are your new best friends. We also delve into the utility of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) and ONET for a comprehensive understanding of job growth and salary trends.

We wrap up with actionable strategies for handling job offers, from understanding the true salary range to requesting time for consideration. Learn why negotiating in person or via video call can give you the upper hand, and how asking for about 20% more than the initial offer is a good starting point. We highlight the importance of patience and preparation, offering one-on-one sessions for those needing extra support. Tune in for invaluable tips, personal anecdotes, and strategies to help you negotiate your salary with confidence and poise.

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Speaker 1:

Yeah, welcome back Arminie, welcome back MJ, welcome back Coffee and Career Hour listeners. Yes, thank you all for being here. We are eternally, eternally grateful. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And if you are new, welcome to Coffee and Career Hour. We are two career counselors who are excited to explore all of life's career related questions with you.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and we hope that you find this podcast helpful in all of your career journeys.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, today, what's today? Thursday? Thursday For us, Tuesday for the listeners On this wonderful Thursday evening. What are we talking about, MJ?

Speaker 2:

Ooh, we're talking about one of the things that I have never done before oh, that's right, that is right, okay, well, that is salary negotiation. I have never negotiated my salary, not by because I've been scared, it's just never been a like, never been something I needed to do, yeah, or have done yet or wanted to do.

Speaker 1:

Yet it will happen, though I know it will happen. It is a big, scary topic.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think it's absolutely normal to, for whatever opinions happen around negotiation, everyone has different experiences, but we're excited to talk about it.

Speaker 1:

We definitely are experiences, but we're excited to talk about it. We definitely are. So what sparked this topic for us was that this past week, I did a wonderful, wonderful workshop with this really great organization called the Armenian Engineers and Scientists Association, and it is an organization that matches current college students or young professionals, recent grads in STEM fields like engineering, science-based majors, to mentors, and it also, in addition to the mentorship program, has career workshops that they offer. I do want to preface that it's not only open to Armenians, so for any listeners out there who may be interested in this organization, they're on LinkedIn, they're on Instagram AESA. You are welcome to check them out and potentially join if it's a good fit for you.

Speaker 2:

Love that, Armanay, it's so cool that you had the opportunity to present something where it sparked. You presented the topic of job search, correct? Yes, that sparked essentially a ton of different questions for these individuals, which was what do you do after you get an offer and do you negotiate the salary? Do you take it? What kind of happens?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. The attendees asked really great questions and this particular one stood out because I thought it was like oh yes, let's talk about this. So this particular question was when to have a discussion about the salary when it's not posted on the job description.

Speaker 2:

Yikes. So let's say, in the US, there are different states and cities that have different laws regarding around pay transparency. So for the sake of this episode, we're also going to be referring to a lot of things and laws, policies, best practices in the US. So we do want to preface that too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because it will vary by even within states. It will vary Absolutely, but with that said so, mj, what would you say like if a job posting doesn't have the salary listed?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

How would you approach that?

Speaker 2:

One, I would do some research on what type of position it is. And we can get into where you can do some research and what that looks like. And we can get into where you can do some research and what that looks like. But, funny enough, when I was graduating graduate school, I had no idea what the average salary was for a counselor or an academic advisor. So my first instinct was to go to my advisors, my graduate school advisors, and ask like, hey, what am I supposed to be looking for? Cause at the time there was a necessary in higher education. I don't I don't quite remember if their salary was listed or not, but I remember being told to look for a certain range, and that's kind of where I based off my information from.

Speaker 2:

So that's where I went. First, If a salary is not posted. If it is posted, I would do other research on different roles, similar roles, different companies or organizations to see if that's also salary that matches the industry.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, I think that's really cool that you kind of leveraged your network and asked around. That is definitely something that you can do in addition to the online searches when we talk about, like, some of the websites that you can use that are trustworthy and that have accurate salary information. We will be sharing all of that in today, today's episode, but I think it's cool to ask people who are in the field that you know and are comfortable asking yeah, and because I was a student, I didn't feel weird about it because I was learning.

Speaker 2:

so I felt like it was in that mentality where it was okay to ask because in in our society, in our culture, money is not something talked about. Yeah, right, like, even even amongst in higher education, like we don't, we can just assume that you make like, we all make similar, yeah, but it's not until someone like is asking or it's a topic that's shared that you actually like talk about it. It's a taboo to talk about in society.

Speaker 1:

I know Isn't that insane, but actually along those same lines. That is why the pay transparency laws came out recently.

Speaker 2:

I think they came out last year or in the past couple of years In the past couple of years, I want to say within the last five years, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so the pay transparency laws basically indicate that some states not all of the states in the US actually abide by this, and it might come to that in the future, but as of right now, some states, including California, require job postings to indicate the salary range and that's actually caused a big like. There was a lot of talk about it. I remember when it came out because it's a big deal Like before this law came out, everything was secretive. Yeah, like you would hardly ever see a pay range posted on a job description.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it wasn't until you are in some stage of the interview process where they actually mentioned it to you, or even when you got offered the job, you actually knew what you were being paid. And I do want to refer to that. For these laws, even though they're valid in some states, sometimes the cities and counties may have different laws as well, so it's important to kind of be aware of where you live. So, for example, california, the laws may be different than Colorado. Let's say, in California everywhere is paid transparency, but maybe in only some cities in Colorado it is.

Speaker 2:

So it just depends, not saying that that's accurate, but it's very important to be aware and do your research.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. So, essentially, what we're getting at is, even though there's paid transparency laws, right now it's still fairly new and it's really not across the board in all places and in all industries, so you may still come across job postings that don't have the salary range posted. Yeah, so what do we do in that case?

Speaker 2:

It's kind of scary, right, because you're technically applying for opportunities where you have no idea if what they're going to pay you and if it's the same and that kind of goes, depending on also, like where you live, what we earn here in California as career counselors, academic advisors, may be very, very different than what we'd, what we'd make in like Kentucky, for example. Right, it could be like 20, 30% decrease because the city economy looks different too. So it all has to do with that. But when you kind of find out what is being offered and what is being paid is in the interview process at some point, and it does look a little bit bad if you ask that on the first round. Usually the the best practice rule of thumb is to wait until it's brought up by the employer, the hiring manager, and it will be brought up.

Speaker 1:

Yep, definitely so, I would. I always say to first round it's actually a no, no, definitely don't want to ask that. The reason actually behind that is because, yes, obviously people apply to jobs. They work for money because we need to survive. That's a given. But when an employer is hiring a candidate, they don't want to hire somebody who's just in it for the money, exactly Right. Like your qualifications to be hired for this job need to be skill based, knowledge based and interest and passion based, not necessarily like, oh, I only need this job for money, so you don't want to come across with that energy. Which is why it's a red flag if you ask in the first round, because they might get the wrong idea about your intentions for the position.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think in a general sense too. There are some industries where people are in it for the money and others, like education, where people are not in it for the money.

Speaker 1:

But even those industries, right, even those industries. You got to be good at what you do, absolutely, and you're going to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you're less likely to be good at it, and if you aren't good at it, you're not going to get the job. Yeah, very true. So you're in it for the money. So the reality is that you still have to be able to. Your intention for the interview is to get to know about the companies on the interviewees, and is employee interviewees and it's. Is this company a right fit for me, based on the projects they're working on, their vision. What do they want to contribute to society? Yeah, and then on your end is to demonstrate I have the skills and I'm in alignment with your company. That's the first few rounds. It will come up later on whether it's at the tail end of the interview process or sometimes it happens that, like when they give you the offer, they send it in the offer letter yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I will tell you my first full-time job. I didn't know how much I was being paid until I got the offer letter. Yeah, I, it wasn't disclosed, even the rain. Oh, I don't think the law had come into place, because it was still. I think it came into place in 2023.

Speaker 2:

Harmony yeah it was just a couple it was just a couple years ago and I was was just a couple of years ago and I was first hired in 2022. I didn't know until I got my offer letter and I didn't ask because I needed a job, but that's a whole other story.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's okay. So I personally also remember getting job offers where that was the first time that I saw the salary and I you know I didn't know anything until that point and I know that this was already ingrained in me in college to not ask. So I never asked about it in the interview process until they sent me the offer letter.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and there are some best practices, honestly, and a lot of tips and tricks when it comes to salary negotiation, because it's not always also just about the money. In this case, and what we're talking about today, we're focusing on the money, but there's so many other things that kind of come into that negotiation process, because salary negotiation is one thing, but it's also negotiating different things that make your job more feasible for you and for the company.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so some of those things could include like remote work, hybrid work schedule especially now post pandemic, that's been a big thing. That people can negotiate is like their work schedule, and also it could be your benefits package that could be negotiated. Those are less common, I would say, compared to the salary. When people think of negotiation, the first thing they think of is salary, but I think the schedule is another really popular one these days. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Also, too. We live in a state that's heavily impacted by parking. Parking and having access to that is another one as well, depending on how many days you're coming into the office, if you're expected to as well. Something else is like when you're talking about benefits yes, medical we think of, like health benefits, but there's also different benefits as it comes like car rentals, amusement park tickets, all those different entertainment things that someone may not traditionally think of that also exist as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. No, there are really really cool benefits that companies will provide to you once you're an employee there. So that stuff doesn't come into the picture until you're getting an offer letter. So you're not going to know what benefits package you have. Usually in the job description it'll say something like a really great benefit package or something like that, with that kind of wording, but they're not going to spell it out for you until you have. They'll say like medical vision, dental as the basics, but then all the other perks that come from working at a certain company. That stuff you'll find out when they send you the offer letter.

Speaker 2:

So it's about being patient yeah, and that information I I don't want people to think that the person interviewing you always has that information too. That's true, right? So, honestly, the person and the the department that's going to know all about that is HR, right? So when getting an offer letter, you're going to be either contacted by the hiring manager, but they're going to be in constant communication with HR because they're the people who actually do the paperwork. So if you have questions about salary, negotiate, um, about salary, and negotiation would be through the person who's interviewing you, because they're in connection with the HR department who's going to approve whether or not that there's funding. But when it comes to all of the details regarding benefits and if that's feasible as well, that's also going to go through HR too. So sometimes the person interviewing you doesn't know what those full benefits are and if there's an opportunity to negotiate. There's also a lot of conversations that happen behind closed doors.

Speaker 1:

That is true. That is true Especially, like, if you're being interviewed by a committee. That committee consists of people who, like, maybe even work outside of your department. There's people who work at the same level that you work. They're not really that involved in the HR stuff. There's, like, your supervisor and manager, who might be the one who's like in communication with HR, but HR sets the policies. There's a lot that happens behind the scenes when it comes to hiring. So that is true that, like, even if you asked in the interview process, they might not have the answer for you anyway.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so don't necessarily take that as a red flag on your end. I've seen people ask and just be like disappointed and and it's, it's not the interviewer's fault. Sometimes they just they don't, they're not given enough information.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's true, but rule of thumb, rule of thumb don't ask about salary benefits, any of that, in the early stages of the interview process, because those stages are intended for you and the employer to see if you're a match based on your knowledge, your skills, your and your long-term career goals and your alignment with their values. Absolutely, you got to establish that first, and then you guys will end up either they will bring it up at some point in the interview or you would wait essentially until they send you the job offer, and that's when you can take that opportunity to negotiate whatever is being offered to you yeah, armen, a question for you.

Speaker 2:

So, let's say, applying to jobs here in california? Um, pay transparency law exists here. Should I be doing my research upon salary before coming into the first round interview?

Speaker 1:

yeah, always. I think that having that information for yourself is going to be really beneficial. Doesn't necessarily have to come out in the interview conversation until later, but knowing what you're working with is really good to kind of go into the interview with.

Speaker 2:

And so there are some really great ways you could do research are some websites to use, and Armin and I often share things with our clients as well, so again, preface that this is mainly in the U? S as well. So the first one is salarycom. It's a great website where you can see an average range of different salaries that exist for different roles as well, so something that you may want to explore and see how that might work for you. And if you don't find a particular title because titles can be developed by different companies and things like that you want to think about what is the closest title or role to this that I can also search to?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, salarycom is really popular. That's probably the most popular one that I use to recommend to clients, but there are some other really great ones like payscalecom. Very similar dashboard, very similar process. You will essentially create an account on here and once you have an account, you're able to gain insight into what similar positions of what you're looking for, what they're paying, or at least their ranges, are.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. The next one is glassdoorcom. Glassdoor is, aside from being like a job board, it's also a place where individuals can leave in reviews of their time and experience at that certain company or organization, and they also can tell you what their salary was as well. So on there, there's also different ranges that you can look up for different roles too. There's a lot of information on Glassdoor. Something to note is, when you make an account, you do have to offer up information to also receive information, so know that it's not just there for everyone to see.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it'll ask you to essentially review a company that you worked at to give you so that you could gain access to an account there. There is like, if you don't have an account on glassdoor, you could still search up some information, but it's going to be very limited info yeah, if you really want the full access, you do need to have a profile, but glassdoor is a really popular one as well.

Speaker 1:

the other one is indeed you all might be familiar with indeed, which mostly we use Indeed for job search, so as a job search database. But on one of the tabs, in addition to looking for jobs on there, there's company reviews and there is find salaries. Yeah so you got those two tabs to work with, and when you put find salaries, essentially it asks you what job title are you looking for and where, so what country? And then you can search accordingly. It also help allows you to filter salaries by industry.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 1:

I love that so much yeah, and it gives you average salaries for each industry, which is really cool to see, uh like at least the overall range that you're working with within the industries that you're considering it's so cool to see how these have evolved over time, because they weren't like this a few years ago these websites, so it's awesome.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think more and more websites are offering up the salary piece because probably from the pay transparency laws that came out, there's more information out there about salaries that didn't exist before, because there were no laws requiring people to be transparent.

Speaker 2:

Very true.

Speaker 2:

The next two I'll talk about are more governmental, us-based websites, which are the Bureau of Labor Statistics and ONET.

Speaker 2:

Essentially, both sites feed off of information, off of one another, so think about these as career exploration websites. I'll talk about the BLS, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more because on there you can see different occupation groups and then from there, you can see specific titles In there. It is so cool because it'll tell you the current pay that is being offered on average, and then it also gives you a pay outlook so you can see, within the next 10 years, the progression of pay and what that'll look like, as well as job outlooks too. So it's very neat to see how, as jobs grow, the pay will also grow and the need for it to think about those two as the same. O-net will also do the same when you are searching for different careers not majors, different professions. When you click on there, if you scroll down to specific, it gives you a lot of information. Right underneath the skills and things like that, it'll talk about pay and what that looks like, depending on what state you're in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love it. O-net and BLS are really, really popular in my work, like I use it so often. I love the feature on ONA where it has, like, the bright outlook. It has a cute little sun next to the position or occupation title that shows you in the next 10 years or so if this occupation is gonna increase and it has a bright outlook. It's really good. It's a good way to kind of see what's happening in the job market and where maybe you can focus your efforts on.

Speaker 1:

But beyond those two, the last resource that we want to share that will help you gain salary information and just occupational information is career contessa. It's a really great website. They also their resource site for women specifically, but you could essentially use their salary information however you identify. But Career Contessa is a resource site and they all have their own podcast. They have a lot of great information on their website too, and they specifically have this resource called Salary Project, and the Salary Project is an online database that gives you full access to thousands of salaries that you could compare essentially, and so you would create your profile and input your information based on the industry that you're in and what salary you're making, and it's anonymous and then from there it'll show you like the database of other people who have inputted their information on the salary project, so that way they're creating a database of different salaries.

Speaker 2:

That's so awesome. I love that because it's like a community coming together to support a community, and it's so nice because, again, this is one of the things that's not often talked about, so it's amazing to see people with different platforms put that knowledge to good use.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, back in the day like 10 years ago, when I first started in this industry and there were no pay transparency laws, there was a website specifically for our industry and higher education that you could go secretly look up people's salaries.

Speaker 2:

Oh my goodness, it was secret, only exclusive info.

Speaker 1:

Like you would only hear about it through gossip, like that was not something that anyone would talk about. As far as an actual resource, yeah, there was a secret website we could search for people's salaries. That's great. So, things have come a long, long way since then.

Speaker 2:

That's so cool. Nothing is secret anymore. Everything's on the internet. So yeah that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

So, with that said everybody, we do highly encourage you to be informed about the salaries within the industries that you're interested in is really important to know what you're working with. But at the same time, in interviews, that is not the place to have those conversations until you've established that you're a good fit for the role.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. Don't talk about it during the interview unless it's brought up. Sometimes hiring managers will say just to confirm or, depending on what round you're in or how far you're in, or if you're the final candidates, they'll confirm, sometimes like hey, this is what we're working with. That's your opportunity. Where it's not to negotiate because you haven't been offered. Do not negotiate until you you haven't been offered. Do not negotiate until you have been offered the role. Let me let's say that one more time Do not negotiate until you've been offered the role. If they say this is what we're working with, my guidance is to just accept so you can move forward with the interview process and then you reflect on if that number or if that range matches what you're looking for as well, because you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot by starting to talk about that. Haven't gone through the interview or they haven't made a decision yet, and what you respond is the decision maker for you.

Speaker 1:

Yep. The one caveat to all of this is and this question that come up in the workshop is how about if I'm talking to a recruiter In the very, very beginning phase of the job search process? Your initial initial conversation may be with a recruiter. That's different. The recruiter's job is to get you, get the company, the right match, so the recruiter can be more transparent about these things like salary and what the job is like, what the company is like, so that they can make sure that you're a right fit before they recommend you to the company right? And so when you're talking to a recruiter, you can have a conversation about at least the salary range and what you're working with, to know what you're getting into before you apply and actually start interviewing with the company.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and they do this sometimes because people will put the most ridiculous ranges ever and they'll put, for example, if it's like let's think about a fake number 20,000 to 60,000, and it's nowhere near 60,000. So a recruiter's job is to tell you the actual range of what they're going for. So if they're going for more, if they're going more for like 30 to 40,000, the recruiter will let you know instead of saying, oh yeah, you can go from 20 to 60.

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly so. It's a more realistic conversation with the recruiter for sure. So that is a caveat to all of this. Now, you may not always be working with the recruiter. Those are very specific instances. So make sure you know who it is you're talking to, if it's the employer or the recruiter so that way you know what type of conversation you can be having with them yeah, so you definitely know to do your research.

Speaker 2:

um, there's a lot of mixed guidance out there on the internet, right? So, coming from two people who who advise students every week, you want to be sure to have an idea of what you're looking for, right? So do your research beforehand, before you go in the interview and just wait till you get that offer to negotiate. Just be patient. If it's offered, then you can negotiate. Sometimes in that process the recruiter is also making the decision. Let's say, if it's between two or three candidates, which candidate is also going to meet what they're looking for?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true, that is true, and we will actually, in our next episode, talk about negotiation tips and tactics, but today we'll kind of give you some of the basics. Once you're in that phase of you get the job offer, you know what the salary is. Now you got to make a decision. Do you accept, do you negotiate? What do you do? What's your general rule of thumb about this, mj?

Speaker 2:

If I'm talking about general rule of thumb, um, when it comes to do I accept, well, it depends on what I'm looking for, right? Um, this is where you have to do and yourself see what you need to survive in, whatever state you're living in, and, if you can, you should have not necessarily a specific number, but somewhere around a goal of what you're meeting and then from there, if that were, if that job offers you that target goal, what you're saying for you can go for it. What I learned, what I didn't do but have learned since then, is never say yes immediately, even if you're going to accept it and know you are. Give yourself at least 24 hours to sleep on it and then go from there. They're not going to offer someone the job within 24 hours. They're going to wait till you respond. So don't do what MJ did. Don't say yes on the spot I was in a different situation but think on it and then go from there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely. It's always a good idea to think on it, reflect on it. You might get really excited in the moment when you get the job offer, but then you want to give yourself the space and the time to really consider it before you make a decision. So one thing about that too is I always recommend not giving your answer over the phone but giving it over email. So a lot of times we'll see that the employer will call you to give you the offer, because it's more personal that way, which is great.

Speaker 1:

In that conversation you might be excited, you might be feeling a lot of different emotions and you don't want to make a hash decision. So in that moment I would say like thank them for the job offer and for the time and the opportunity, and let them know that you're really excited about this position and ask them how long do I have to make my final decision? And they'll give you like oh, we want it by like in the next three days, or something along those lines. Sometimes they'll say like oh, we really need to know really quickly because we're trying to move forward in the hiring process. That's when you can ask like can I have at least 24 hours or at least along that timeline, and usually they're okay with it. Once you establish that, you follow up with an email with your decision, and in that email is when you can do the negotiation process.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. The negotiation process can happen in so many different ways. If it's going to be a conversation, I would not have that conversation through email. That's where I would say if you can meet in person, it's always better to have that face-to-face interaction. Or if next best thing is like Zoom video call and then, if worse comes to worse, it's a phone call, this is where you can use tools like ai to help you really like prepare the language that you want to use. Don't have ai write the email or the out the script for you, but have it.

Speaker 2:

Let you generate ideas towards what you're looking for, because this discussion can also bring up a lot of nerves in you yeah and you don't want to sound not confident when talking about this, because this is your moment to really share your skills, examples and your reasons for why you deserve x, x number, right. So if I sound unsure of myself, you're gonna be like why am I gonna pay you if you don't even sound sure of what you can do?

Speaker 1:

yeah, and a recruiter and a hiring manager is always expecting you to negotiate, so don't think that you're catching them by surprise oh yeah, they will actually offer you a lower it's common practice a lower salary in expecting that you're gonna negotiate and the common rule of thumb of how much to negotiate, because this is a really common question that we get. So how much more can I ask for? 20% more than what they're offering you 20%.

Speaker 2:

Holy crap, isn't that insane. Yeah, that is almost one-fourth of the entire salary that is a lot.

Speaker 1:

So that's the rule of thumb, and in knowing that more often than not you're not going to be, they're not going to agree to the 20%, but if you ask for the 20%, you're probably they're going to meet you in the middle around 10% more than what they offered you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my, my thought is is, for example, let's say, if you're wanting this is super low, like 30,000 a year, right, let's say, that's your goal, but they're offering you 25, ask for 35. So then you can go down to what you want and if that works, try, try to meet somewhere in the middle, always have the number you don't want to go past or below, and then have the number that you're aiming for, and then always find somewhere you're comfortable in the middle too yeah, exactly so there are ways you can write that.

Speaker 1:

So, yes, I agree in that you should have this conversation over phone or or video or so forth, not over email, but usually the first message goes out in email, correct? So like when you follow up, let's say, after they give you the job offer, you follow up and say thank you so much, et cetera. I have had some time to think about it and I would like to accept this offer. However, I'd like to negotiate X, y and Z things in the job description and that's where you can write a really beautiful, professional, confident email about why you deserve to get this negotiation, this higher salary or whatever other pieces you're negotiating, and then you can end that email with like I love, I'm open to having a conversation about this further and see what they say.

Speaker 1:

I've done that before for my actually for my UCLA job. I did negotiate and it worked out really well. They did follow up on the email and actually give me what I had asked for. I didn't at the time know that 20% was what you could negotiate and I definitely didn't feel confident enough to like negotiate that much. It felt scary to do that, and so I definitely negotiated a lot less percentage than that, but whatever I did ask for, I'm really grateful that they were able to meet.

Speaker 1:

But we wrote a beautiful email. My husband and I, we sat down. We brainstormed. We're like why do I deserve this? What is my minimum that I'm needing? It has to be more than what I'm currently making so that I can make the switch and all of these things. Like we brainstormed, we wrote the email. This was before AI, by the way. We wrote the email and it did end up working out nicely, but it is the initial conversation can happen in the email and, depending on if they want to have a further like in depth conversation with you or they might just respond and approve via email.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I 100% agree. I also want to add too if they offer a new number in the email, do not sign the first offer letter they send you. Make sure they send you a new offer letter with the correct amount that's on there and then you sign that one. Sometimes employers would be like, okay, great, we agreed on that over number via email. Sign the offer letter and you're like, no, yeah, you say no, I will sign a new offer letter, and there is a polite and professional way to do that as well. Right, you're not just going to refuse so definitely again.

Speaker 2:

Remember to have a new offer letter with that amount and everything you discussed. Clearly, and it's okay if that takes one or two days. They're going to be rushing to get you in there, so you should be patient as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah. There's a whole process to all of this and if you are in this phase you're thinking about negotiating, or you don't know how to draft the email, or you don't know how to develop the examples of what makes you qualified to get this negotiation. That's where mj and I can help you all out in our one-on-one sessions, where we could actually sit down with you and have that conversation and help you build out your email to them absolutely.

Speaker 2:

We are here to help you build your confidence in all areas of career, and this is one that makes a lot of people nervous. So reach out to us, listen to this podcast, save podcast. Save it, put it in your pocket, share it with a friend, share it on social media. Whatever you do, remember that we're here for you.