Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
The Entrepreneurial Mom: Cynthia Kossan's Story of Transition
Cynthia Kossan is a career consultant and educator with a decade of experience working with early to mid-level professionals through every facet of career development and job search strategy. She is passionate and dedicated to empowering her clients to achieve their career goals and thrive in a competitive job market.
As the founder of CK Career Consulting, Cynthia shares her incredible journey from a young career advisor to a thriving entrepreneur balancing work and family. Join us as Cynthia takes us on a journey through her transition from a structured role in higher education to the unpredictable, yet rewarding world of entrepreneurship.
Balancing motherhood and a career is no easy feat. Cynthia shares the intricate dance between career aspirations and the profound journey of motherhood. She delves into her journey navigating an identity shifting moment, societal expectations, and leaving a decade-long career to pursue a more flexible path. Cynthia emphasizes the power of community and the importance of building supportive networks, and encourages you to build supportive networks, both online and offline.
We hope this episode inspires you to find a balance between your career and personal life. Cynthia’s story offers a realistic look at the challenges and rewards of motherhood, work-life integration, and self-fulfillment.
Learn more about CK Career Consulting here: www.ckcareerconsulting.com
Connect with Cynthia on Instagram @ckcareerconsulting
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.careerconfidence.online
Follow Us on IG!
- @ careerise_
- @ careerconfidentlatina
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-jos%C3%A9-hidalgo-flores/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/akulikyan/
BuyBlackett: Use our affiliate link to get 15% off any items on their website: https://www.buyblackett.com/coffeeandcareerpod.
hello everybody. Welcome back to coffee and career hour.
Speaker 2:We're excited to have you here yeah, you guys can't see us, but armin and I have truly the biggest smiles on our faces because we're doing something a little bit different today what is?
Speaker 2:it that we're doing? We invited our first guest um on to coffee and career hours so everyone can learn about the different ins and outs of what it's like to be someone else in the career counseling, career consulting, career coaching world, as well as being a mother in this navigating career, life, balance, eternity, complex, infinity thing that we're going to be trapped in as women. So today we have for you Cynthia Kosan from CK Career Consulting, and she is going to be trapped in as women. So today we have for you Cynthia Kosan from CK Career Consulting, and she is going to tell us all about herself. But why don't we, armanay, go ahead and give her a little bit of a warm introduction? Cynthia, please feel free to tell our audience, our listeners, a little bit about you.
Speaker 3:Great. Well, thank you guys for having me. I didn't know I was the first guest. That's so funny. I know you guys have a lot of episodes. I haven't heard all of them yet, so I'm really honored to be here. Thank you guys for inviting me. I've been listening to your podcast and you guys have such a great dynamic and every time I listen to it I'm like I want to talk to them because I feel like we have a lot of similarities. So I'm really happy we're here. I'm really happy we can start this conversation and talk about some of these topics that we don't really hear about too much.
Speaker 3:So just to give a little background on who I am and how I came to the point where I am now in my life, I'll try to be short, because sometimes I end up going in different directions. But I actually started my career at UCLA, where I was an undergraduate student. So I know you both work at the UCLA Career Center. That's where I started out. That's where I was really exposed to career counseling and higher education. So I was an undergraduate student there from 2011 to 2015. And I studied psychology and during that time I wanted to get involved on campus, so I found the career advisor internship or it was the peer advisor internship program at the UCLA Career Center that I think Armina you manage right now, but it's called a different thing Career Center that, I think Armina you manage right now, but it's called a different thing. So I was one of three interns that was hired and that was the first internship that I had that really exposed me to career counseling and higher ed and it was a realization for me that, you know, this was a field that is a possible career path, and I also, you know, realized that it was something I really enjoyed because it didn't feel like a job. It felt more like something I was doing on the side that I enjoyed but I was getting paid for it. So that was a huge realization for me that this is a possible thing that I would pursue after I graduate.
Speaker 3:So after that internship I learned so much about career counseling. I was working with students and I was working, you know, on a college campus. So I knew that that is the type of job I wanted to get after I graduated and I started looking for, after or when I was about to graduate, I started looking for opportunities on college campuses and it was really difficult because all of the advising positions I would look for required either a master's or years of experience, and so I decided, okay, I need to look for something more entry level, something like an assistant type position. And I found an opportunity at the USC Law School. I know it was at USC. I looked for opportunities at UCLA, but USC was the one that stuck. So I went to the other side of town and I started working at the USC Law School in their career services office as an administrative assistant, and during that time I literally spent every lunch hour, every morning, every evening, basically anytime I wasn't working. I was networking, I was doing informational interviews, I was looking into different master's programs and I was trying to figure out where I was going to go with my career.
Speaker 3:So during that time I decided to start my master's at USC, and one of the benefits of working at USC is that you can get your master's fully paid, which is the benefit that I used. I know that there are stipulations now to it, so I think you have to be working there for like two years before you can use that benefit, but when I was working there you could pretty much use it right when you start working. So after I think it was after two years I started my master's in the Post-Secondary Administration and Student Affairs Program, otherwise known as PASA so I might just use that word PASA at the USC Rossier School of Education. So I started my master's part-time. I would go to work during the day and then I would go to classes in the evening. Part-time I would go to work during the day and then I would go to classes in the evening and, like I said, it was sort of fully paid for. They pay for up to four units per semester, so you have to do it on a part-time basis.
Speaker 3:So after I started the master's program, I started to look for other opportunities on campus where I can maybe have more of an advising role, now that I was doing my master's and had more years of experience. And I found a position as a career advisor at the USC Dornsife School College of Letters, arts and Sciences, so basically the liberal arts college of USC, and it was working specifically with the undergrads. So it was that position was like exactly what I was looking for. It was just the most amazing opportunity. I had a really great boss who became my mentor. He, you know, gave me so many opportunities and I said yes to all of them. So that was really the job where I honed my skills in career counseling. I, you know, I started working in like event planning. I was managing large scale networking events, I was doing workshops, I was doing so many different things and collaborating with other, you know, departments on campus. Like it was an amazing opportunity. So I worked there for about three and a half years and that's when I got my master's in 2020. So, unfortunately, I didn't have a graduation.
Speaker 3:But then I decided to try something different and I started working as an assistant director at the Occidental College Career Center. Occidental College is a private liberal arts college in Eagle Rock. It's pretty different from USC, a large research institution. So it was a different experience and that's what I was looking for. And ultimately, I worked there for about a year in the Career Center and I had a similar role where I was working with students. Similar role where I was working with students and also, you know, managing events, programs and doing workshops, and that after a year of working there, I became a mom. So I had my son in 2023.
Speaker 3:And I decided at that point that I actually wanted to step away from higher education for a little bit and take a pause on my formal career and just focus on being a mom, which is where I am now. I will probably get into, like, my decision to do that. But right now I, like I said, decided to take a pause on my formal career in higher ed, but I still want to use all the skills that I got from working in career advising and career services and to start my own practice as a career consultant, and that's why I started my own business, ck Career Consulting, which is what I'm doing now. So right now, my life looks a little different than the past 10 years I've been working, but right now I am focused on, like I said, being a full-time mom but also incorporating this business into the hours that I have free. So, yeah, it's been an incredible journey. The past two years have probably been the most transformative for me, so I'm looking forward to kind of getting more into that.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a journey for sharing. It's amazing that your student internship experience really, like, developed the trajectory of your career. That's what we tell our students all the time. Right, like your internship can either make you realize that you might want to go into this field or make you realize, like no, never mind, I actually don't want to do this. Either way, it's a very meaningful experience. So for our listeners out there, whether you're in school or not, doing internships, volunteer work, any extracurriculars, is going to help drive your career decisions and maybe have a bigger impact than you ever would have imagined.
Speaker 3:So, yes, and I will say that I did do other internships. I think I had done an internship in HR that I didn't enjoy as much, so that was another indicator for me that, okay, maybe that's not a career path I want to pursue. Maybe I should focus on this other one that seems to be of more interest to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also appreciate and I could see your growth like in my head going from like Cynthia at UCLA to Cynthia here, to Cynthia there.
Speaker 2:And it's so interesting because you know our clients that we work with Armin and I, whether in our full time job or offline, to a lot of time they think like I'm going to go into my dream job right after I finish my education and it's almost like wait a minute, what do you mean this education? And it's almost like wait a minute, what do you mean this? This 40,000 to X amount of dollar certificate is not going to get me this position or the into this industry. And you talked about those pieces of networking and really like during your lunch hour after before, all of those important pieces of career development that really help you move to the next step in the game, and I really appreciate that you emphasize that too is naturally part of your journey, but for a lot of people it's hard to really think about what do you mean? I still have to work from the bottom up per se, so thank you also for emphasizing that too.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. That was huge for me I'm not even kidding Like I was working on a college campus. So I was like, wait, I have access to so many people that I can just walk to their office during my lunch hour and talk to them for an hour and then come back and go back to work. So, or in the mornings or after work like people in higher ed are very open, and I think people in general actually are very open to talking about themselves and talking about their journey, like they want to do that, and if you get out there and meet others and see what their experience has been like, it's so informative for your own decision making. So I knew that I think from my internship like having learned so much about networking and informational interviews I knew that that was going to have a huge impact on how I decide to pursue my you know career decisions and what to do next that that was going to have a huge impact on how I decide to pursue my career decisions and what to do next. So that was my goal.
Speaker 3:Like the first three years when I was in that role, I was just focused on meeting as many people as possible, and what ended up happening actually is that the next job that I got, the career advisor role. I knew someone in the office because I think it was like through my, through either my master's program or I had like I knew someone who knew some, who knew that person. So I was able to kind of get my way into that office and like let them know that, hey, I'm, I'm really interested in this position and, you know, really get my name in there. And that was my boss later told me, like the fact that I was so persistent and the fact that I really like reached out and tried to get my name into, you know, in their like application, they that's one of the reasons that they chose me. So it doesn't feel like you don't get the benefit of networking right away but then, like years later, you start to see how much, how valuable it is. So that was, yeah, that was really good that I did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you mentioned that too, because it's so important how there's a lot of times where we just want to put a bandaid on something right, like we're going to do this so we can get to this goal and then move forward. And you're right, networking, or I love to call it like your career community, the career community that you build with people, doesn't really take off sometimes until a little bit later, even though you're looking for something right now. And then it's also this part of like advocating for yourself, right. There's also that layer of like what do you want and how are you going to help yourself get there and you don't just rely on anyone else.
Speaker 2:The last thing I'll throw in there is I love the hack it's not really a hack, but I'm going to call it a hack of how you, at the institution you were working with you also use the discount to get your master's degree too. So, for everyone listening, there are programs, companies, organizations in the corporate world and in education, really wherever it is that you work government and other industries that I cannot think of at the moment on a Saturday morning, but that really do allow you, at a discounted price or some type of benefit going back to receive your education or helping you pursue your education as well so that is so huge and a lot of people don't really know where to find these things or helping you pursue your education as well. So that is so huge and a lot of people don't really know where to find these things or how to look for them. So I appreciate you saying that too.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, I will also add I haven't been at USC in a while, right, like I haven't been working there, so things might've been different. Or things might be different now I have not looked into if there have been changes, but when I was working there there was an application fee waiver, so I didn't pay anything for the application when I submitted it there for staff like that was a thing for staff. So that was one thing. The other thing was you get up to four units of graduate coursework fully paid. So if you decided to do the program like very part time, like one class per semester, you can essentially get it fully paid for, but it would just take you longer to do the program, which is fine because you're also working. And then another thing was that they actually treat it as taxable income. So you do have to pay taxes. But if you can certify that your coursework is related to your job and your manager can it was there was like a form your manager can certify that it's related, then you can get that waived as well.
Speaker 3:So I had friends who literally paid nothing for the program and and they just finished it in about four years and that was it. And it's a very expensive program. So for me, I decided to finish sooner. So there were some semesters where I did pay out of pocket, but I, you know I was able to, so it was something that I was like you know what? I'll just finish in three years instead of four, but there is, like I said, there is the possibility of getting it fully paid for, so that was a really amazing benefit.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Yeah, it's great when we talk to our clients sometimes about whether they should take gap time or not before going to graduate school. This is one of the factors we talk about is like if you can get a full time job in that industry, your company may be able to pay for your graduate school. And literally every time I say that their eyes light up, they're like oh my gosh. Literally every time I say that their eyes light up, they're like oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there are pros and cons to working full time and getting your master's part time. For me it was. I think the pros outweighed the cons. Another thing that I experienced was when I was in the classroom and we were talking about different topics, I always had experiences and examples to talk about. Always talking about different topics, I always had experiences and examples to talk about, always like I was the one just raising my hand and bringing up examples of things that happened to me at work that day or that month, and that was. I mean, it helped me so much to see what you know the different theories and the different approaches are and if they're actually able to work in practice. So that was the benefit that I found.
Speaker 3:Some of the cons were more that you're one of the few that are part-time. So there are these weird clicks that happen where all the full-time people get together and the part-time people get together, just so that you can find people that are similar to what you do. So there were some difficulties, but I would say the pros definitely outweigh the cons. I always recommend for people to work full time, get the experience and then, if you want to get your master's or a graduate degree. Part time, that's something that you can always do, and then, if you feel like you want to go back full time, that's always an option too. But work experience is just the most important thing, and that's been so key in my life is just having the experience.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you for sharing your journey. So let's talk a little bit about the past couple of years, where your work experience has looked very different. You shared that in the beginning of your story, so can you please tell us what motivated you to make the transition from a career counselor to a private career counselor and coach?
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely so. Let's see. Obviously, I would say the biggest motivation was that I wanted to focus on motherhood. I wanted to be there for my son in the early years. I knew that that was something I wanted. I knew that was a decision I wanted to make when my son was born and it was the biggest motivation.
Speaker 3:Now I definitely, in the past, had ideas of starting my own practice. It was always a dream of mine. It was always something that I wanted to do, because I would find myself reviewing resumes in the evenings, reviewing resumes and cover letters, and helping people with their career on the weekends, like friends or people that would tell me like, oh, my son needs help, can you help, can you help him? So I would find myself doing that and I would always think, like, why don't I just do this? Like why shouldn't I get paid to do this, right? Like if there's a need out there, why not really put myself out there? But at the same time, I had the full time job I had. You know, a stable job benefits everything and I didn't want to let that go. And I love I mean, I still love aspects of higher ed, but I loved working in higher ed so much. So I didn't want to let that go, but I knew that this was something that I would love to do in the future and I just never found the right time to do it.
Speaker 3:But, honestly, being a mom and making the decision to step away from my career was the biggest motivation and other you know other little things, like there were some challenges I experienced in higher ed. So, for example, I didn't seem to find a lot of flexibility in higher education where you know, like work-life balance. It was a very nine to five office job and that didn't really seem to align with my, the lifestyle that I wanted. It was other challenges, you know it. Just towards the end it just didn't feel like the right fit for me anymore and I feel like that would probably be a conversation for another time. But it just felt like the right time to step away, take a pause and try something new, get out of my comfort zone. And you know, like I said, motherhood was the biggest reason. The fact that the environment was not really aligned with my values anymore, that was another reason. And, yeah, and then I decided to start the business when I so let me take it back a little bit I actually, armina, you just had a child as well.
Speaker 3:You probably will be able to talk about this as well, but the pregnancy was very difficult. No one really talks about how difficult pregnancy is, when you know when a woman is going through it. Of course, every pregnancy is different, but I had a lot of challenges during the pregnancy and it was difficult to be working while I was pregnant, and so I, since I knew that I wanted to focus on motherhood, after I had my son, I decided to focus to leave my career while I was pregnant and just focus on, you know, staying healthy and staying well for after he was born. So I had him in February of 2023. And that first six months was very, very difficult, because when I first left my job, I experienced a couple of challenges, which we'll probably get into a little bit, but those challenges were kind of what led me to pursuing this. Some of those challenges were what led me to pursuing this business as well.
Speaker 3:So, again, lots of different reasons. We'll probably get into a little bit of the challenges, but I one of the things I realized when I made this transition is that there's a whole world outside of higher ed that I didn't even know about. So there are all these career coaches and career consultants that do this work on their own started their own practice, consultants that do this work on their own started their own practice, and it seems like this is the right thing for me right now with motherhood, because I'm able to balance motherhood and this other aspect. So we'll probably get into that a little bit more, but those are some of the reasons. I don't want to be too long winded, but those are some of the reasons that I was motivated to start my own practice. Wow, I mentioned a lot of things, so we can dive into some of those, no problem.
Speaker 1:First of all, kudos to you, because leaving a full-time job and transitioning into this unknown entrepreneurial work is very it's a risk on its own, and so that alone plus you, you were pregnant, plus you were about to have a child and that is a whole different world and a big transition on its own. So amazing to you for being able to like navigate these big life transitions both at the same time. How was that for you, too, like emotionally? What were some of the things you were feeling?
Speaker 3:as you were making these pictures. So the decision to focus or prioritize motherhood was something I just I knew, like I knew that that's what I wanted to do, but no one warned me about what that transition would look like. Nobody tells you what it's like, no one talks about this. I like just went into it completely, like, like you said, the unknown. So I would say the first thing, of course, is the loss of identity, or I. You know, some people call it a career identity crisis. I wouldn't call it a crisis, but it was a very difficult transition, because you go from working full time, like for a decade, and then you go into this space where it seems like there's nothing right. And I also stopped working when I was pregnant, so I didn't have my son yet until a couple months later.
Speaker 3:So during the, during that time, it was months of saying who am I without a job? Like, who am what? What am I? What are my skills? What are, like, what I? The best way to put it is who am I without a career or a job? Yes, there are these other sides of me. Yes, I do have these interests, but if I'm not doing anything with it right now, then what am I? Am I useless, like I found myself just being unproductive because I was not working every day.
Speaker 3:So that was, you know, the identity crisis I was experiencing. That lasted months. And then the other thing was lack of support. There was no one that I didn't know who to reach out to to get some help and support through this. So I was experiencing the challenges in the workplace and then I was experiencing just challenges with the pregnancy and there just seemed to be no one that I can talk to who's experienced something like this. So there was isolation, loneliness, lack of support. That was very difficult.
Speaker 3:And then there was also this this is the unique one that I didn't realize I would go through, but there was a lot of pressure on me to go back to work as soon as possible, like a lot it was. It was everywhere I turned, people were telling me you need to go back to work. You need to go back to work After you have a child. You need to go back to work. Like within a few months, you need to go back to work. That was just all the messages I was getting, and that was so difficult because it was I knew I wanted to be with my son in the early years. I knew that.
Speaker 3:So there was no, you know, support for me to like let's help you with this transition. Let's help you with, you know, prioritizing motherhood and finding something outside of that that you can do. Maybe you know when he's napping, or when you have help, or when you, on the weekends, in the evenings, like whenever you have time basically finding things to do outside of that. No one was supporting me in that manner. In that manner, really, you know, it was my husband and my family that were the biggest supporters, but apart from that, it was just everyone telling me to go back to work. So that was really difficult. That was like one of the biggest challenges and I just I didn't anticipate experiencing that. So so yeah, that was. Those are some of the things I experienced during that transition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think back to when I was on maternity leave Six months. I felt that limbo like who?
Speaker 2:am I.
Speaker 1:I don't know what to do at my time when my son was napping, it's like should I work on my business? Should I do an Instagram post? Should I I don't know clean the house? Should I take a shower? Like you don't even know how to like basic needs during those first few months and so let alone having that pressure to like go back to work do I even go back to work? Yeah, and dealing with health factors as well, it is a really interesting time. I didn't know that I was gonna feel so much in limbo and I didn't know that like so much of your basic needs you you're not going to know how to navigate into that schedule like that and no one really talks about that until you're there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, on top of the fact that, like I said, pregnancy and taking care of a newborn and infant in that first year, basically that is by itself so difficult, basically that is by itself so difficult. And it's funny that I'm not even talking about those challenges, like, I'm talking about the challenges that I experienced outside of all of that. So imagine going through that, having this, you know, this infant who needs your attention, 24, seven, so demanding, but on top of that you're experiencing all these. You know, like I said, the loss of identity you're. You're experiencing pressure to go back to work.
Speaker 3:And you know one thing that the fact that I was getting so much pressure, it made me obviously feel like what I was doing taking care of a child was not valued. Right, it was like, oh you're, you're just at home, you're not being productive, you're not offering anything to society, you have no value. So that was an emotion I experienced a lot in the first year. It's like why am I doing this? I'm so unproductive, I'm so useless. So the fact that motherhood is not valued is that was one of the biggest challenges and I had to really work through that. I had to really work through those emotions for the past two years and I definitely am at a place where I'm very secure in what I'm doing now. But that first um, those first few months, that first year, it's just so much going on it's it's really tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing. It truly truly is, and I know one thing like I would think about too is like I have a graduate degree and I love the work that I do, so is it a matter of like giving that up and like embracing motherhood fully? Is there a way I can balance the two? What does it say about me if I decide to leave this? You know there's so many things. And then, yes, what is society going to say? What is family started to get out there.
Speaker 3:I started to meet other moms. I started to go to the park, go to like infant toddler events, like I really was trying to engage with the community, and that was when I started meeting other people who had similar experiences as me and similar emotions and, just you know, thoughts about work and career and all of this. So that is when I started to feel better, just knowing that there are other people out there who's experiencing this, because the perception for me was that everyone around me every you know friend, that friend that I had that just became a mom the perception was that they all went back to work and so it almost felt like I was left behind and I was making the wrong decision. But ultimately, again, like I said, everything brought me back to okay, I know that what I'm doing is right for me and my family. I know that this is what I value, this is what I'm making the decision on and, you know, despite what other people do, like, you have to be secure in that.
Speaker 3:So what I experienced was meeting some moms and finally finding, like that, solidarity, finding other people that experience something similar, but then it almost feels like they you know a lot of them will decide okay, this is not right for me. I'm going back to work, so as soon as I feel like I find someone, I feel like they're kind of taken away. So that is something that I've struggled with. But again, like I said, I have to just be secure in what I'm doing and, you know, if there are people that I can find support with and other people that are experiencing what I am, that's, that's something that will help with my journey. But it's ultimately, it's like, up to you to just be very confident in the decisions that you make.
Speaker 2:I am like, sitting here, I watched Armanay go through a lot of things, but I also didn't watch her go through a lot of things too, and I tell her all the time like she's doing such an amazing job and you can't even tell, like whatever is going on in her head, you can't even tell. And I'm listening here and I'm like I'm not even a mom yet and all of these different things that you feel like you can navigate in community. It sounds like you're navigating independently and no one's there to help, no one's there to be a shoulder, and it's kind of like you should be able to figure it out right, because you made this decision. Now you're supposed to carry it out. And I'm sitting here and I'm like holy crap, I had no idea. Like that's what you guys are thinking about or that's what's happening during these six months.
Speaker 2:I come from a Latino culture where you're you know you make a decision, you go through it. Whatever happens happens Like it's it was your decision and you kind of live with it. And that's kind of been my mentality through everything I've done. And hearing you say feeling unproductive and undervalued and feeling like being a mom is not valued in our society hits so hard in so many different ways. I'm so proud of you, even though I know we've only met on Zoom for the first time today, but hearing your story is so powerful and I think other women who are thinking about this or who have gone through this or going through this now are so appreciative that you're sharing your story with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, thank you for saying that. Like I said in the beginning, this is I've talked about this with people that I trust and feel comfortable talking to them about, but I haven't really shared it like in this format. But I and, of course, everyone has their own circumstance and everyone's experience is completely unique, but this is what I experienced and this is. You know, of course there's a lot more to it. There's a lot like day to day things that you experience and we haven't even gotten to what it's like to start a business when you're a full time mom.
Speaker 3:I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit, but it is so hard and and I know that whatever decision a mom makes, it's hard in like on its own, in different ways, like I've talked to women who have gone back to work and they tell me their experiences and their child, the challenges that they have gone through that are a little bit different.
Speaker 3:So and and I I don't know that because I don't have that experience of going back to work with, you know, having a baby. So it's really interesting to hear the different perspectives and the different experiences and how mothers are dealing with it. You know like it's a lot of one. For example, some working moms that I've talked to have said that they feel like they should, you know, be taking care of their child, and they feel like, you know, everyone else is taking care of their child, and they're they're the only ones that went back to work. And it's funny because I experienced the same thing on my side, where I feel like I'm the only one that didn't go back to work, and there everyone else did. So it's just. I love talking about it because I love hearing what other people have done and you know what their experiences are like. And no matter what you decide, there's going to be some type of sacrifice, that's, that's just what comes with being a mom.
Speaker 2:So yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine. I'm like literally in shock. I had no idea. This is like kind of what it what it looks like, something I want to talk to you about or we want to share too. And something you referenced before was how, in higher education, there really is no work-life balance. Armanay and I can attest to that. We are answering emails at 10 PM at night. We are in the morning. I wake up thinking about what I need to do, or next week, or on the weekend it's Saturday. I still have to create a newsletter, like all these different things. That kind of happen, and work-life balance doesn't only exist in your career, your professional life, but it also exists in your personal life. How did you find a work-life balance that fits for you as you're also navigating motherhood?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's a good question.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was difficult to find that balance in higher ed. I will say, though, that I'm sure there are people out there mothers, parents who are working in higher ed and have some more flexibility maybe part time job or maybe remote work, but for me, I was not able to really find anything that was again part time, remote things like that. A lot of the work that I did was meeting with students one-on-one, and I can tell you that you can absolutely not do that when you have a toddler attached to you and whining at you the whole day. It's not something you can really focus on. So I was looking for opportunities that maybe were flexible, but it's just it didn't work out for me, and I will also say that there are, you know, I've had managers that were more open and flexible and, you know, allowed me to leave work early or later, whatever, and then I had some managers that were very strict. So I think it also just depends on the workplace and the management, like, how it's run, how, you know, different managers do things. So, you know, I'm sure there are some people that, or some women that like have more flexibility, but I personally was not able to really find that. And I also, just like I said, I wanted to prioritize motherhood. Just like I said I wanted to prioritize motherhood, I wanted to have my full attention on my son, as opposed to, you know, having to work during the day and also take care of him. Like that is way too much to do. It really is a full time job by itself to take care of a human. So that's why I just didn't want to have to do both. And so, going back to the work life balance that you said, right now is when I've had, I felt like I have more balance in my life.
Speaker 3:It took a long time to get here, but I am at a point with my son where he doesn't need as much attention, right, like it's different when he's an infant versus a toddler. So, when he's an infant, there were, you know, we were still struggling with sleep and he had to take multiple naps a day and he, you know, I was always like I had to carry him. So it's very different than now when he's almost two and he is able to walk independently, he's able to play independently. He only takes one nap during the day. So it's just, my days are more stable now Like I know what it looks like and obviously it could be different day to day, but for the most part it's pretty stable. So it almost feels like a job where you have the morning shift and then you have your lunch hour and then you have the afternoon shift and then you go home. So that's what it feels like now with him, with my son, and it really is like the first hour. I'll go out, I'll take him to the park, I'll do some, you know, go get groceries with him, basically spend the morning with him. The park. I'll do some, you know, go get groceries with him, basically spend the morning with him. Then my lunch hour is his nap. So he'll sleep maybe one to two hours and I'll have that time to have a break.
Speaker 3:Work on the business, you know, work on other things that I've wanted to work on, and then the afternoon shift is again being with him, maybe taking him out, maybe, you know, running other errands, and then the evening, after I put him to bed, he goes to bed very early, pretty, pretty early, like seven to eight, and then after that I have all this time that I can work on the business, I can do client meetings, I can, you know, work on my website and you know I'm working on a resume, writing certification, those kinds of things. So obviously I am exhausted by that time. But and some days I try to give myself time to just, you know, like unwind and relax. But some days I also try to really work and grow the business. I always say to not have zero days. So every day if there's one little thing that I can do for the business, then you know it's over time, it's going to build up to something bigger. So that's kind of what my life looks like right now.
Speaker 3:But I'm also realizing that everything is temporary. So even in a job, even in any job, you're not going to be there forever. You're always looking to move up, you're always looking to get promoted, you know, find another opportunity. So it's kind of the same thing here, where I, you know, I know that being with him is not forever, it's only for a few years and it's just it's like a job. I almost treat it like a job, but it's a very fulfilling job. It's it's you know, it's my son, it's some someone that I'm investing all this time and attention into, and I know that you know it's gonna. Obviously you don't see the results right away, but hopefully in the future you start to see the results of it.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's a little bit about how I found this balance where I'm able to give my full attention to my son but also have these intellectual pursuits outside of being a mom. And you know I am able to do this. I am able to not work right now and, as in like, not have a formal job right now with benefits. So I'm very blessed that I'm in that position where I can do that and I can slowly grow the business so that it, you know, it really evolves over time and then, once my son is in school, I can really focus on that. So that's that's where I'm at right now with my life and I can say that it feels more. It feels like I have more balance and honestly, I know some people may talk about how it's difficult to have a child, be taking care of a child, and it's almost like your freedom is taken away from you.
Speaker 3:But I mean, my days with him are amazing, like I the I have freedom to go anywhere right, like if I want to go get coffee or if I want to go do something, I just take him with me and it's it's like a little best friend that you have with you all the time. So it's, it's so much fun. And again, this is I understand that this is not the lifestyle that everyone wants, but for me personally it's been so fun, it's been so rewarding and now that he is older it just gets so much better, it gets a lot more enjoyable. So for anyone who's experiencing, you know that first, those early stages of infancy, it, I will tell you, it gets so much easier and so much better. At least for me it did. So that's what I'll say.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:You know that's so interesting that you were talking about, like, as they grow and their nap time changes and everything, it's a little bit easier. I remember a couple of months ago I was like I can't wait till he starts taking one nap a day, because in the early days, when they're sleeping three to four times a day, it's so unpredictable. You have a zero structure and I'm a person that, like I like to plan out my day, I'd like to have a schedule. So just that unpredictability of the day is really difficult to navigate. But he is starting to get to the point where he's doing two naps a day.
Speaker 1:It's a little unpredictable with, like, he's not sleeping at the same exact time every day. So I still can't fully, but at least I know we're. We have, however, many wake hours and so forth, so I could get a little more planning now. But I'm I'm like, okay, it's giving me hope that you know I could get to that point where I could. I know exactly what time he sleeps during the day and I could structure the rest of the activities around that.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely I'm the same way, like structure, routine. That's the only type, that's the only thing that helps me thrive. And you know, having a job, like a formal job, really was like that. Every day was kind of the same thing. So I was able to, yeah, like really thrive in that environment.
Speaker 3:So that first year, first year and a half, but even like up until now, I remember a few months ago I think, he was going, my son was going through some other sleep regression, so he was, for example, you know, I would put him down for a nap but he would cling on to me and just start screaming. So I didn't expect that that just came out of nowhere and so I would do contact naps with him. I would basically hold him to nap and that lasted like a week or two and I couldn't work during that time. Like that was, I couldn't get a break, I couldn't work. So that was just something that I was like okay, this is what's happening now, let's see how long this is going to last. And after two weeks or so it kind of got back to normal and it just leveled out and he was okay again to take naps and I was able to get breaks. So that you know, who knows, maybe that will happen again in a few months and or maybe when he completely drops his nap and I'm with him all day, it's going to look very different.
Speaker 3:So I am in this constant transition phase where I'm always adjusting to his new normal and that's something I've never been used to in my life. But I think you know, being a mom but honestly I think it's a great skill to be able to just adapt quickly to something. That is something that I definitely had to really like learn as I became a mom. So another example, for instance, he used to go to sleep at like 7 pm. He used to go to bed at 7 pm. Now he's going to bed at 8.
Speaker 3:And that means I have one less hour during the night to work and that's oddly been a difficult transition for me. So you have to be open, you have to just see what happens and work with whatever. You're kind of dealt with. And yeah, it's, it's been hard, but again it's, it's exciting too, because it's just this journey of like constant unknowns which can be difficult, but it also you know, you realize how strong you are, you realize, like, how much you're doing and how you're just going with the flow and making it work. And, yeah, it just makes you feel more secure and confident.
Speaker 1:Love it. Yeah, it's truly a skill. I think that's one of the skills that motherhood has been teaching me is to be okay with the unknown and to also be patient. The patience is another big skill. So I think we're evolving and growing, as our children are, and by the time you get used to one routine, they're changing to another one. So that adaptability is, I think, super important and something I've been learning to navigate. But on your end, you're also you've been starting this business while you're navigating all these different changes as a new mom. So what advice would you give to someone who is thinking about starting their own business, whether they're a new parent or not? Just that process.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I spent the first year or maybe like the first six months. That's when I was really focused on starting this business. My husband was on paternity leave so he was able to, you know, also help me throughout the day, and we would give each other breaks and during our breaks we would work on different things. So that's when I was focused on trying to get the website up and trying to see what my services are like, really thinking through what I'm going to offer and what my expertise is. So I honestly, the first advice I would give is don't spend too much time thinking through everything and just start it. You can always change things. You can always change the name if you don't like it. You can always evolve things. You can always change the name if you don't like it. You can always evolve into something different, like. That is something that can happen. So don't worry about making it perfect from the beginning. Just start with whatever you can start with. So for me, it was just getting a website up, getting my social media up. Another practical piece of advice I would give is to tap into your network. So, for example, my husband is in the tech industry, so he was able to really help me with all the website.
Speaker 3:You know things that I had to do for the website. My brother just got his MBA from USC, so he actually has a lot of experience in business and he helped me set up all the finance aspects of it. I reached out to some of my lawyer friends who helped me with the legal aspects of it, so, for example, writing up an agreement contract for the clients, things like that and thinking through what exactly the legal aspects are. So you know, I reached out to some of some other people who are like in marketing and sales and, you know, talking through how exactly I would be starting to work on those things. These are all areas I don't have experience in and I don't have experience starting a business. So I had to reach out to people who have certain unique skill sets and experiences and then get advice from them to really start it up. So I set up the LLC, I set up the website, I did all of the you know background work in that, first those first six months or so. And then that's when I was like, okay, I'm gonna kind of put this out into the world and see what happens to it and see how I evolve over time and again. You have to remember, too, that I'm doing all this while I'm a full-time mom, so most of my time is spent with my son, most of my time is spent focused on motherhood, focused on making sure he's good, he's thriving, all of that, and these are all things that I'm doing on the side. So if it was the reverse, I would have come a lot further now with the business.
Speaker 3:But right now where I'm at is I've had several clients. I focus on referrals, I focus on you know people that I know people in my network. I haven't kind of like done like a you know a huge announcement for it. It's kind of just something that's word of mouth right now, and so I've had a lot of clients come through just through social media, marketing and, like I said, word of mouth. So that that's really great.
Speaker 3:But another aspect that no one told me about with starting a business is that you're going to have a lot of downtime. You're going to have a lot of months where you don't get any clients and you don't. It's just quiet, it's like crickets. So giving yourself things to do is really tough, like I've always had, you know, a manager tell me what to do and I've never really kind of set my own structure and set my own schedule. So I've had to learn to do that.
Speaker 3:And during those slow, very slow periods I've experienced a lot of doubts. I've experienced a lot of hesitation, like why am I doing this? Is this the right thing to do? Should I be going back to work? Should I be doing this? You know something else instead?
Speaker 3:So those thoughts are pretty constant, like almost on a daily basis, and one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is to just push through those thoughts and if you're not feeling like okay, like you're not feeling like you can work on the business right now, you need to step away from it for maybe a few days or like a few weeks, and just come back to it at a later time, when you're in a better mood.
Speaker 3:And you're in a better like mental state, then do that.
Speaker 3:So I've done that many times where I'm like, okay, you know what, I'm just not gonna, I'm just gonna take a break from this. So, and then you know coming back to it eventually and reminding yourself like, no wait, you know, you have the skills, you have the expertise. You can really make this thing succeed. So and then you know over time as you do, that you will get another client and then that client will motivate you to continue working on the business and reminding yourself that what you're offering is very useful and that you know you like sometimes that you think you know how am I different than all the other career coaches out there? Why would they choose me over someone else? So thoughts like that come around a lot and it's being able to push through those and just continue doing it and knowing that over time maybe not even months, but maybe years things will start to really pick up. So those are. Those are some of the yeah, just pieces of advice I would give for someone who's starting out.
Speaker 1:Amazing All of the things you talked a little bit about just starting and it'll change and evolve over time. I definitely can resonate with that. Mine has evolved over time many times. So, yes, I think if we wait until something is perfect and ready to like put it out there, it's never going to be there because you learn and you figure out what works and doesn't work after you put it out there. So, exactly, you resonate with that and definitely resonate with the self-doubt. Honestly, I think that's just always there, especially if we're first generation folks starting a business.
Speaker 1:It's that imposter syndrome. I might even, like you know, able to do this and be an entrepreneur. Some of the first like episodes in the podcast when I was doing this solo, I talked about that because it for me, it was almost like reflecting on becoming an entrepreneur, because I never thought that I would, didn't ever see myself in that space. So that imposter syndrome is real and it does creep in every now and then. But it is about, like remembering your purpose and why you're doing the work that you're doing and what makes you you is what your clients are going to, why they're going to like gravitate towards you you know Exactly, and I was comparing myself to people who have been doing this for a decade or, you know, for a very long time and have had the experience that I'm currently going through.
Speaker 3:So, remembering that don't compare yourself to other career coaches, career consultants out there, because you don't know their journey, you don't know their experience. They probably went through something like you did and, in fact, one of the things that I've been doing is connecting with those people and again going back to what during the evenings, like reaching out, networking, doing informational interviews for people who are doing things that are similar to what I'm doing now. So I actually, for example, met someone on Instagram who does this, who's also a mother, and struggled with the same things that I struggled with, and she found, you know, this other possible career path where she can actually do resume writing. So she writes resumes for her clients. I've never done that for my clients and in higher ed, I would help students with their resumes. I would never write resumes for people, but that was that was like a shift in my you know, like understanding that there is this need for resume writing and there's a certification for it and there's all these companies that you can actually contract with, that will send you clients and you write their resumes and cover letters. Like there's this whole world of remote, flexible work that in within, like career development that I didn't even know about. That works with being a mom, being the full time mom.
Speaker 3:So that's what I also mean by like evolving. So, you know, even though I was off, I'm offering certain services now that are more similar to the expertise I had. I'm trying to build on that and offer different types of services and again get out of my comfort zone and do something a little bit different. But it's ultimately very exciting because now I'm being able to find these opportunities that work with what? The decision that I'm making, which is being a mom and focusing on motherhood right now. So that's really exciting, that's really cool. But yeah, I have to do more of that. I have to do more networking, more informational interviews and yeah, it almost feels like I'm starting again. So it makes sense to really do that again. It's almost like a career pivot, but not really because I'm still kind of in the same realm of work, but yeah, it still feels like a new thing.
Speaker 2:I love that. I do because it really teaches you like what your skills are, where your strengths in and how to tap into them to help you excel. And I think you going back to the roots right Of what we teach students and people in everyday life, of networking and how powerful informational interviews are and connections and relationships and where that can really take you. It may not pay off immediately, but in the long run it really does make a difference. So I really love that. And I also want to say to women like you and women like Armine and women like myself but I'm going to exclude myself for right now where you have the bravery and the courage to go out and start something and build something, that's what really inspires others.
Speaker 2:And I know it wasn't until I met Armin and we started talking about what we did outside of the Strathmore building when I really got inspired to be like, oh my gosh, this is something that I've always wanted to do and I see someone who I idolize and admire doing it.
Speaker 2:I should do it too. So know that even though, like people are not engaging with you in the business, you are inspiring so many people just in general who wants to do something who have wanted to reach out for support and things like that. So the community that you're building is much more than what you think it is, and something that I've had to like live with along with my journey, because it's mine looks a little bit different, and what I've turned it into in that piece of evolving too. Well, cynthia, we've had a pleasure talking with you and you listening to your story and sharing it with us, but there's one last thing we would like to ask for you. So, yes, you may not be a mother who works in a traditional nine to five, but you still are a working mother, and what guidance, what advice would you give to other working mothers navigating this?
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for all of that and thank you for, of course, inviting me on the podcast and letting me talk about my journey. Like I said, this is the first time I've been kind of really getting into some of the details of what I've experienced, but you know it's a little tough. I was talking to my husband about this the other day. But there are all these terms that we often use with mothers. There's the working mom, there's the stay-at-home mom, there's like all these different terms, right, and I don't even know what I would put myself into right, like I guess I would be. I guess my lifestyle is more aligned with the traditional stay-at-home mom because I'm focusing on, like I said, motherhood, but I'm also trying to find these intellectual pursuits, I'm trying to work, I'm trying to build this business. So it's really hard. Like what do I lump myself into? And then there are some moms who work part time and they are with their kids, like or child or kids, twice a week, three times a week. So what are they? Are they stay at home moms? Are they working moms? So it's a little tough. I don't know what exactly to be lumped into. I can't speak to the traditional working mom, where it's like someone who goes back to work full time and you know, that's, I guess, what the working mom would be. But a stay-at-home mom is, like I said, more aligned with what I'm doing. Stay-at-home mom is, like I said, more aligned with what I'm doing. I think I'm still in the position where I want to meet other moms who are in more of the lifestyle that I kind of have right now and see how they're managing, just because it's like I said, for me the priorities are focusing on motherhood and focusing on taking care of my son in these early years and then finding things that I can pursue outside of that, things that would fit into that type of schedule, which is a unique circumstance, it's not. It's pretty different than the traditional working mom. It's pretty different than the traditional working mom. So I can't really give advice to that type of working mom who's experiencing like the full time job, full time career, and you know that that I can't really speak to that experience. I can't really give advice to those women, because it's a completely different experience.
Speaker 3:So, for those women who are experiencing like the being a work, being a full-time mom and but also wanting to find some balance with work or find something, some projects that they can do outside of that. I think it's honestly the first thing I would say is stop resisting motherhood, because there are so many women that I've found that are very like it's it's tough to talk about there. There are so many women that I've found that are very like it's tough to talk about. There are a lot of women that I've met that just want to go back to work but feel like they can't, they're not able to like go back to work unless they like completely sacrifice time with their child. So there's all these different struggles that women go through and a lot of the times like I went through that as well where I was like I need to work, I need to do something, I need to do something else outside of this.
Speaker 3:But I stopped doing that, I stopped resisting it so much and I kind of embraced motherhood, like I really just took it on and embraced it fully and I just said like I'm going to do everything I can to find ways to work around this, like find ways to, you know, get out there and put myself in the world and get involved and do things that are just, you know, on the side. So, for example, another thing that I did that I would not have probably been able to do if I was still working full time, is become a board member for a nonprofit that's like focused on children's literacy. So that's like very different than higher ed or anything I've ever done, but that was something that I. The opportunity came my way and I was like you know what I'm taking it. So now I have all these different aspects of my life where, like, I'm a board member for this nonprofit that's focused on, you know, children's literacy. I have my business, I have motherhood, like. I have all these different things that I'm doing. That I'm doing part time, but it's still giving me that. Those that intellectual pursuit it's still giving me the ability to work on things outside of motherhood remind myself that I do have interests and goals that are not just focused on being a mom.
Speaker 3:So if there are moms out there who are experiencing this feeling of like being lost in motherhood and then not having anything else, put yourself out there, put yourself out there, put yourself out into the world. There are other moms out there who are experiencing what you are 100 percent. Um. Go to the park with your you know kids and meet other moms, like everyone is very willing to socialize, um, you know, talk to other people, reach out to people, network, um, you know, whatever you can do to really put yourself out there, you see that once you do that, the opportunities start coming your way.
Speaker 3:And it takes time. It takes a lot of time, like even for me. I'm still in the early years of doing this, so I'm sure that the more I do this, the more opportunities will come my way in the future. But I have to just remember that. So it's still a struggle. But that's been the thing that's helped me so much with this experience is just connecting with other people and just pushing through it and not resisting motherhood, just like being fully in it and being fully present.
Speaker 1:Amazing advice and your story has been so inspirational I have to us, both mj and myself, and I hope to our listeners as well. Um, it's all a learning process and we thank you for sharing your journey with us, cynthia. Um, at this time we will leave it up to our listeners. If you have any questions, any comments, anything you want to share, please connect with us. You know where to find us, both MJ and myself, and we're happy to kind of continue this conversation with our listeners if you all would like to.
Speaker 3:Yes, and if there's anyone out there listening who's experiencing anything like this, I am very open. I am very open to talking, to meeting up, having coffee with our kids, like I'm very open to all of it. So, and there are multiple ways to reach out to me too. I'm on LinkedIn, instagram, my website, whatever, like anything. So so thank you guys so much for having me on here and I'm really really happy that I got to do this and that I got to meet you guys on zoom, and hopefully I will meet you at UCLA one day. I'm hopefully I can visit sometime soon. But yeah, thank you guys so much. This was an amazing opportunity.