Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
Managing Family Expectations: Navigating Career Conversations During the Holidays
Career conversations with family can bring up many emotions, especially with the upcoming holiday season. Join us as we share personal stories and offer practical strategies to handle these moments with grace and confidence. From using exploratory language like "I'm still exploring" to establishing firm boundaries, we provide insights to help you communicate your career journey effectively, even when faced with uncertainty.
Confidence is key when discussing your career development with family and friends, but it's not always easy to maintain. We dive into the importance of proactively sharing your efforts and the steps you're taking toward your career goals. By understanding that unsolicited advice often reflects others' personal anxieties, you can maintain self-assurance and stay true to your path. This episode encourages reflection on why certain questions may feel uncomfortable and offers reassurance that you're not alone in facing these challenges.
For many, balancing career ambitions with cultural and familial expectations can be particularly challenging. We explore how authenticity and self-awareness play crucial roles in navigating these pressures, especially within various cultures. With the right support system, it can be more attainable to flourish in your career. Whether you're entering the job market or considering a career change, this episode underscores the importance of having a supportive network and being proactive in shaping your career path, while also navigating career conversations with family and friends.
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.careerconfidence.online
Follow Us on IG!
- @ careerise_
- @ careerconfidentlatina
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-jos%C3%A9-hidalgo-flores/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/akulikyan/
BuyBlackett: Use our affiliate link to get 15% off any items on their website: https://www.buyblackett.com/coffeeandcareerpod.
Hi everybody, welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour. How is everyone? Happy Holidays, yes, happy Holidays. We're in between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and Hanukkah and New Year and any other holidays you may be celebrating during this time of year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a nice cold time. I don't know, this time is always awkward, I think, because you don't know really if you're in work mode, school mode, vacation mode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, family mode. There's a lot going on during this time of year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, Arminé, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:We're talking about, on the same note of holidays and maybe spending time with family more than usual during this time of year. We're talking about how to have career conversations around the dinner table, around the holiday table.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a sticky situation to be in it sure is it sure is we know as counselors.
Speaker 1:It's not easy to have these conversations when you're in a space where you're not sure yet what you're doing with your career, what your next steps are going to be. And then you see family that you haven't seen maybe in like a year or in a few months, and they're asking you how are things going, what? Where are you working, Are you going to school? What's your next step? And, like you, just getting these questions back to back could be so overwhelming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I remember in college I actually was so lucky to never have to engage in this type of conversation Because I was the type of kid who knew how to plan, knew what they were doing doing, knew what was next, and I was always more so like updating everyone. That's how I always kind of took the holidays. But I'm a different breed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you are a different breed. But yeah, I actually feel similarly because I never felt unsure about how to present my career goals to family. I actually remember the year that it was new year and I was going to graduate the next calendar year and I was like, oh, I remember telling my mom oh, now, when people ask me when are you graduating, I can say next year, this is for, like my bachel's.
Speaker 1:I was excited to kind of share that like timeline with people. But I know that, though you and I may not have experienced the challenge and the overwhelm of having to answer questions when you're unsure, as counselors we see it all the time in our students and clients, so we know how much of a heavy burden it can be on folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think career, the conversation around career just is a very overwhelming and can be anxiety inducing for a lot of people because it's a very peculiar topic on what my interests are. They may not resonate the same with other people or sometimes people may disagree or not like it or have a different opinion of their own, especially when it's coming from somebody you know, a family member, a loved one, a friend, whatever that looks like. It can be tough to navigate those conversations with people.
Speaker 1:It is because, if you, it's an important topic and it's actually an emotional topic for people, you know, because career encompasses so much of like the way we see ourselves and what place we hold in society, or at least that's how people feel about careers, even if it shouldn't be that way. That's a whole different topic for another day but it does like encompass our whole identities of how we see ourselves and how we present ourselves to the world, and so it could really be emotional to talk about it, especially when you're unsure about your career goals. So, and then it's coming from people who are maybe important to you and that you really want to impress. There's that component. Or it could be people that, like I don't really care about my great aunt's opinion, you know, but like she's inserting her opinions. So there's so many different dynamics there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, um, I love. I love that you said that because it's funny. I, my entire life, I always would think like what, what is my brother going to say? What is my brother going to think? Is he going to be proud? And I doubt that he's listening to this, but if he ever does one day, I want you to know that. I always thought about that and I still continue to think about that. But you're right, it's people who care and love you. They're inserting their opinion into not only your career, but it's your overall life, right? Because our lives really revolve around what we do in them every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and the meaning that we put on these careers and jobs that we have. It is an emotional topic. So, mj, let's say somebody is at the dinner table and they're having a good time with family and all of a sudden, that dreaded topic comes up where they ask okay, so what have you been up to this past year? Where are you working or where are you studying?
Speaker 2:Well, first, I'm going to try not to panic. I'm going to try not to panic and I'm going to breathe, and I think it's really analyzing what it is that you want to say right, and for many people, if you are still exploring or feel confused or lost, that may not be the initial reaction you want to give right, because that may bring up a lot of emotions of other people around. But maybe you use the language of I'm currently still exploring or I've been up to this or I've been researching this or I've been talking to these kinds of people, and I think the first thing to do is one breathe, right, it's okay. It's okay to not expect these questions and to expect them, but also know what type of responses you can have that are not only going to make the situation more tense than what it really needs to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely I think, speaking confidently about your career development process and really actually emphasizing what you do know, about what you're doing, versus what you don't. So if, for example, maybe you've been researching professionals on LinkedIn to do informational interviews with them, or you've been heavily in the job search process, utilizing different sources to find jobs, or maybe you're currently updating your resume or talking to a career counselor, talking to your academic advisor, if you're a student, whatever steps you've been taking to gain more information or move the one step forward toward your career goals, you can kind of, you know, bring the conversation around those topics versus reacting in a way where it's like I don't know and then inviting unwelcomed advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's very much so taking a proactive approach on the question itself and saying these are the steps that I'm taking or these are the things that I'm doing, so this person, whoever it is, can also see I'm not just sitting around waiting for the answer, I'm not just staying curious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking maybe a listener might think well, why do I have to answer to people Especially if it's somebody that, like I see once a year and then I don't really need or want their opinion Like why do I even need to answer to them? What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yikes, you're asking a people pleaser, so let's acknowledge that. So in my head I'm like I'm just going to answer them regardless, so I don't have to share anymore. But if you are thinking you know why should you answer? I think there's also a polite and respectful way to handle the situation too. Right, by by nicely shutting down the conversations of like oh, you know, currently giving a shorthanded response and then saying you know, that's where I am and I'm not really wanting to talk about it any more than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's where boundaries come into play, depending on your personal boundaries. And if you want to talk about it or want to get into more of like the things you are doing, great, it's just more source of information and topic of conversation that you can have with family. But if you have a certain kind of relationship with certain family members and you're not wanting to engage in these conversations, yeah, there's a definitely respectful and polite way to like set those boundaries and say thank you so much for asking I'm I would like to talk about something else or something along those lines where you're not really engaging in conversation or giving them information you don't want to share.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think this is where the piece of guidance you gave before on speaking confidently also comes into play, right? Because if you're quivering, if you're nervous, if you're like freaking out out of breath answering this, there's also there's that feeling of, oh, is this person hiding something or they're not telling the whole truth? Yeah, right. So it's also being confident in where you are and remembering that every person experiences career development differently, and we're all at different stages too. So you also have to be kind and give yourself grace with wherever you are, because you will be moving on to the next step at your own pace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wherever you are, because you will be moving on to the next step at your own pace. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, I would actually invite folks who may be reacting that way to career questions to think about and reflect on why do you want to shut down the conversation? Like, where is that coming from? Because oftentimes, even though it might not seem that way in the moment, when people are asking questions or giving unsolicited advice, it may be coming from a good place of like they actually want to. You know, see you succeed and see the best for you. They may be doing it in the wrong way or approaching it based on their own perspective of career, their own insecurities around career, so it might not be received well, but the intention may be good. So I would invite folks to really reflect on why do you want to shut down those conversations if you feel that way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, and I'm going to add to that a lot of time. These things can come as like. In Spanish we say likeado, which means like um. The literal term or translation is is heavy, but what it's mean to say is like very tough, very um, direct and assertive and a negative connotation, so that, although this may seem, or it can feel like a criticism or someone trying to insert their opinion in a not positive light, remember that this person is also coming from a good place, wherever they're standing in their own position too, that they're wanting to share or wanting to ask for, to give you guidance on whatever they think is best too. And I think that leaves us up to us as counselors, but also as humans, to remember that this person is just coming from wherever their walk of life is, and it's not not always a reflection on you or what you're doing in your career, in your life, but it could also be wherever they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, truly. And along with that same note, when folks maybe start giving advice or, more so, when they start criticizing, like why are you doing that, that like you won't make a lot of that, that like you won't make a lot of money or you won't find a lot, of job with that major and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:That's like coming from a really anxious place. Yeah, um, I can't tell you like how many times countless times I've talked to students, clients and even friends and just people in my community who have said like I've changed my major because of other people's opinions, or other people are making me feel like this major sucks. So the reality is like these messages are coming from that person's own anxieties around their careers and their jobs. So it's really hard not to let them project onto you and not to take on those anxieties, because it's it's we're human beings, right Like we. We pick up on people's energies. So it's hard to stop that from happening. But I think maybe it's important to recognize that if people are reacting that way about a particular career choice you have, it's coming from their own anxieties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I a hundred percent agree, and I think this is where your response, instead of reaction, is very much so valid here, right? So, thinking about how do you want to respond to this person rather than just immediately react to what they're saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So what are some other ways people can set boundaries or some language they can use?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So again, I'm not an assertive person or direct. One of my strengths is harmony, so setting boundaries is really really hard for me, but I think I've gotten better with language, especially in around the um. This is my final answer. No is my response, and how you can translate that is, I think, start with gratitude or giving thanks, even though it's not solicited advice that you're asking for, right, so saying thank you or I'm grateful for your guidance, but I'm going to trust my own instincts for example, thank you for sharing your thoughts, but I'm not open to discussing this further or even by acknowledging how you're feeling right. I'm starting to feel overwhelmed or anxious by all of this conversation or advice that I'm getting. I need some space to kind of think about this on my own. Those are really powerful statements that really project where you are in this conversation and topic and give someone pause in response to say, oh, you know, this person is doing their own thing and I should give them, you know, some time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definitely, because when we, you know, stay calm in those situations or we, you know, don't engage in that anxious energy, it'll really help to just smooth that process and not escalate that conversation. Right where you're focusing on, I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm wanting to maybe talk about a different topic, as opposed to saying you and blame. That's like one of the basic mediation skills that we learn as counselors. Right when it's like, avoid blaming or using language that makes the other person feel blamed. So instead it's like the I statements of I'd like to talk about something else or I'm feeling overwhelmed around this topic, and so forth. So, being mindful of the language that you're using and then the energy and the tone, and just trying your best not to um engage with the person's own insecurities and own projections towards you yeah, ar.
Speaker 2:How do you feel about it being so in my head? Like these conversations are like in passing, like when you're getting ready or when you are just kind of it's weird, but like roaming around while dinner is getting set up or whatever that looks like on this holidays, or just kind of you know, kicking back just playing a game or whatever that looks like. But what do you feel about when there's a pressure of someone's asking you for a sense of being an example to others type of way?
Speaker 2:Oh, like you're the oldest kid in the family, so you have to have it together or like the only person who's like at this level, what do you think about kind of those, those where you're the only category?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I literally felt the pressure in my shoulders right now, and so, metaphorically, you know that is so much burden on a person's shoulders and having to also not only do the right thing quote, unquote in everybody's eyes but also know how to say it in the way where whoever's listening, whoever's observing is, is learning from you. Yeah, that I can't even. Oh.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking a lot about like first gen students, first gen professionals and how this is kind of the conversations that they have. I'm thinking about a few people in particular, but I know that this is tough when you are like the first or you're the only person, kind of, in this area and it's almost like, oh, like, let's talk about this person and where they are and the next big thing for them, because sometimes you are where you are and you're not ready to think about the next big thing too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those conversations could also turn into, like putting that person on a pedestal and, oh my gosh, look at where this person is and, like everybody else, is starting to feel some type of way around that person. And even though the intention of those conversations is to, like, help motivate everybody else around them, it actually maybe that person isn't that sure of themselves but, because of all this pressure to be sure, they can't even express, like you know, what I actually don't know or I'm not. Maybe I'm reconsidering. You know this job or this major, and they're too scared to even share it. Because they're there, they've been made to be this person who has it all figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about both sides of the spectrum, of someone who's entering the job market or someone who's currently changing their career, but also someone who is the only person in their family who may be in a career yeah, yeah, mj, I know that you're an exemplary, exemplary person in many areas of your life.
Speaker 1:Um, how, how, how have you handled those types of situations?
Speaker 2:it's hard. Um, I want to say that it's hard and I don't mean that it's like, oh, it's hard to be awesome and amazing and all these different things. But I think for myself, it comes down to a lot of how I view myself and how much internal pressure I put on myself. And what are the expectations of others, my friends, my family members, my mentors, people who, like seen me grow and they're like, okay, you've been doing this for X amount of time. Like what are you doing next? Like I'm still just trying to figure it out, right? Or when I get told like okay, like you know, you have all these certifications and all of these accomplishments. Like so, when are you going to go back to school and finish? And when are you going to go back to school and finish? And when are you going to do this and when are you going to do that? Or this person's doing that. Why is it so hard for you to go back and do this?
Speaker 2:So, for me, I battle a lot with my internal conversations and how I treat internal MJ and what that looks like for her, and and the way I feel and the way I see myself in my career and my, my overall life goals because it Because it's very much so like am I wanting to do this because I know it's going to make other people or the situation look better, or is it because I really want to embark on this new journey or adventure or opportunity? So I personally struggle a lot with what does that look like for me and how do I keep everyone around satisfied and happy? But also like facing the truth of am I satisfied and happy? What does that look like for me? So it's, it's, it's difficult and it's I say that with a ton of privilege because it's not. It's not something that I also. I feel like right now. I feel like I'm complaining, but it's not something I need to necessarily be complaining about too no, you know, everybody's experience is their own and, um, it's fair and you're.
Speaker 1:You have every right to feel that way, and you actually have worked really hard to be where you're at today. So you know all that privilege comes with hard work and a lot of sacrifice that you've put in to be where you're at. It's not, it wasn't handed to you. So you're also entitled to feel proud of some of those accomplishments too. But, with that being said, have you ever had to have a conversation or say out loud like, uh, that you're unsure about some like a career goal or an opportunity that's upcoming?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I'll tell you this, and I don't remember if I've shared this before, but two weeks before I started, or a week before I started my master's program, I and this was, I guess, in my head now like very early on before I officially became a counselor and started working I, um, I wasn't sure that was something I was ready to do, okay, and I panicked, and I panicked and I remember crying, I remember a lot of crying and I was scared.
Speaker 2:That was the emotion I was feeling, was scared, but it was stemming from feeling like I'm not good enough and although I in school, you know 4.0, all of the good stuff, I finished early and and did a ton of different things in undergrad, I also was like I don't know if I'm ready to do this. Yeah, and I'm not sure, like if I am good enough for this program, if I am good enough as a person, if my experience is valid enough. And I felt that fear and I was scared and I was very, very, very unsure of what my next step was going to be. And I remember someone telling me you know, if you go, do it for two weeks and if you don't like it, just you know, we can stop grad school and you can figure it out, but it really was. It was really life changing for me and, you know, ultimately it got me to where I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. Yes, I remember feeling that imposter syndrome and that just self doubt Like am I even in the right program? After I started.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Before I started it was. It was just pure excitement, right, and it was also. I'm remembering the timeline. It was also because I finished my undergrad in May and the graduate program started in the summer, so also in May. So I remember a few of us who were finishing up our undergrads, we were taking, we were in the grad classes and then after that we were still doing finals for undergrad. Oh my gosh. So there was no time to feel or think about what's happening. You're just in it. And then, like I remember talking to a few of the girls in the cohort were like, okay, what did we get into?
Speaker 1:I didn't realize the intensity of the graduate program and how much it was Not just like course load, workload, academics, but like the counseling skills, the emotional depth that it required. And there was a lot of insecurity around that of like, am I going to be a good counselor? Can I do this work? So yeah, and a lot of us felt that way. And then it was also like your personal growth, because you're so challenged in these grant programs to grow personally. And like I remember one of the girls specifically saying, I went to my car and I started crying. This was like a few weeks into the program and I was like, yep, we've all had that at some point in the program, right, because you're just all the self-doubt am I right for this field? Did I do?
Speaker 2:choose the right program.
Speaker 1:Can I do this work like? And I was the first one in my family to go to graduate school, so graduate school was a whole new, like ball game that I didn't know how to navigate. Um, so, yeah, that then. Buster syndrome was there all from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because I I feel that now and I think about, like these conversations for me are not, they're no more so like where are you, what are you doing? But more so like okay, now, what, yeah, what, yeah, what else? Like I was telling you today, I'm now inspired to write a book Like where the heck is this coming from, all these different things, but it's scary. It's scary for me because I'm, I'm, I'm like okay, I can't. It's not like 50 years ago, where we can do the same job for 30 years straight and then retire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that for me, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I came into this workforce thinking that's what it was going to be like. And then you are in it and then you see things that you disagree with that. You agree with that. You're like I could do that differently, or why is that? And you start to question, you get in healthy trouble that's what I'm starting to call it, and all of these different things and I think starting a business, doing things on the side, teaching, doing my job and elevating the role to be what I've made it to be, is all like. It's almost like I'm building so much pressure there that it's going to burst and I'm not going to know what to do next.
Speaker 2:And that's scary, for when people are like, well, you've done all these amazing things, so now what are you going to do? Or, um, when I say, like you know, like I'm good, like I'm good where I am, that freaks me out because I'm scared to like disappoint her for people to be like oh, like that's it interesting. Yeah, I know, that was a lot no, no, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I wonder just I was thinking about this as you were sharing. I wonder if like because I know you're also in your personal life going to transition to a new role sometime- next year. I wonder if, after that and maybe starting a family, if things will shift around that high expectation that you have for yourself and also the folks around you have for you, because then you're going to have these additional roles and responsibilities what do you think would that happen?
Speaker 2:you know I've I've thought about that a lot because I'm like, well then, the pressure is not just going to be on me, right, it's going to be on us. And I keep thinking like it's going to be on us and my partner and I were, in our families, the highest achieving and again I say that with privilege and I say that coming from very humble background and heart. It's intense and I'm nervous. I'm really nervous and I think that the shift, the lens will be shifted, but the pressure is going to be in a different area.
Speaker 2:Now. She's going to be a great wife and a mom and still excel in her career and do all the things and still take care of additional family. So I don't want to think about it, but I'm going to have to. And I think that's where I relearn what boundaries look like in my personal life with my family members and things like that. Because when it shifts, I think as a woman that's where I'm most nervous of it shifting. Rather, it's a little separate than my career. I don't know if that made sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it totally does, because it sounds like there's still going to be the pressure around your career, but now pressure around these other roles that you have to play. Are you going to be outstanding in every single role in your life, because you've always excelled?
Speaker 2:that part.
Speaker 2:No, honestly like, and I tell that's why I tell you all the time and I don't mean it as like a passing that's I'm like, I look up to you because you are excelling in my eyes in every role and I'm like shit, I gotta be like arminie oh my god, I gotta be like arminie, you know, like arminie's falling apart over here not to me, you know, like and and a lot of us see you that way, yeah, and I keep thinking like, okay, if she can do it, you know, and she's doing all these things like I can do it too, and I that's where I get nervous, because our cultures are very different and I know the expectation of where that's coming from and for me I'm like I don't think I can be the traditional latina wife, I'm sorry. Luckily, my partner understands that in a way, but it's also does my family. Does the culture I grew up in? Do other people around that understand and accept it? I think that, for me, is where I'm getting nervous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard when there is the cultural expectation of what it means to be a wife and a mom to navigate. That Armenian culture is very similar to Latino Latina culture in that sense of like the traditional gender roles and everything you have to kind of navigate as a woman and a lot of it goes on set because you just do it. You know you take care of the home, you take care of the family, you take care of the husband and in certain situations too, and it's like it's just that's the way you were raised, that's what you've seen in your families. You don't even think about like this is a gender role or this is um extra work that I could not be doing, right, it's just you do it and so it's a lot of pressure but at the same time I think that you know we all have to be mindful of what is authentic to us. So when you were kind of talking about, you know, impressing folks around in your family and like making sure they're proud of you and and so forth, and am I making this decision about my career? That is for me, or is it to impress or to make people proud of me?
Speaker 1:A lot of that goes into the now we're talking about authenticity to ourselves, like a lot of the teachings when I, when I read about manifestation and and like you, you know it's going to sound funny, but like the law of attraction, they do talk about, like when to manifest those successes, to manifest a happy life and all those things that we're dreaming of. You have to be authentic to you. You have to know what your authentic code is, and in order to do that, we have to learn to shut out the noise around this. It's the hardest thing ever because, especially for people who are attached to their family and so ingrained in their cultures, it's hard. But at the same time, that self-awareness is probably what's going to help us do that best, and some days we'll do it better than others, but knowing what's authentic to us is ultimately what's going to make us happy and successful, and that success might look different than what your family expects of you, and we're all going to have to learn to be okay with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this goes back to show how self-assessment, self-development, self-reflection, self-understanding and awareness is huge in your life and in career development is huge in your life and in career development and that is really why that aspect and that phase of the cycle is my favorite, because it's self-learning, is who am I? And really truly understanding each part of the person. I'm curious, armanay, when you were going back to work and shifting, was that difficult for others around to understand? Like you are a mom but you also are going back to work and work is also not a priority anymore, right, but it's somewhat of an importance, a part of your life and who you are. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm so, so thankful to have the husband and the family that I have, because they all have been very supportive of like. We see that you love your career. We don't want to hold you back. It would be a lot easier, like just dynamic wise, if I wasn't working and taking care of everything at home and my husband could focus on his work. But the reality is that he would feel guilty to hold me back from the things that make me thrive and fulfilled, and so I can only be grateful for that.
Speaker 1:But I know that not every family functions that way. My mom has told me she's like I would not want you. I see how hard it is for you now because you're literally I always joke, I'm like I'm not thriving, I'm just surviving people, and she's like I know it's hard, but believe me when I say if you leave your job, it's going to be harder, and I know it, I know it. So anytime the thought crosses my mind, if I mention it half-jokingly to my mom or my husband, they'll be like no, don't think about that, because it is not going to make you happy. Even though you think it is right now, because you're tired and overwhelmed, it's not going to make you happy ultimately. So they they're like the voice of reason when I you know. Yeah, so I can only be grateful. But I did worry about, like other family, extended family, in-laws and folks who might think of this in a different way, but thankfully everybody has been super supportive and I could. You know, I can only just be grateful yeah, yeah, well, for everyone listening.
Speaker 2:career conversations go beyond just like what you're doing at your job and clearly the both of us have career conversations in different aspects of our lives and in different parts of who we are and how. That's also transitioning for ourselves, right, as you're moving forward with different career conversations around the holidays, remember that you know you best, right, you know you best. Identify your goals, be strategic, set boundaries with other people, right, especially those who you feel are intruding a little bit in your space. Seek out different feedback, and that's why these mentors and professionals and people like Armine and I are here, right To support and guide you and remember that you can be proactive and change what you want or need to, and that's all on you.