Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
Inside the Classroom: What One Teacher Says About the Next Generation’s Career Choices with Nare Movsisyan
The landscape of education and career preparation is changing dramatically, and today's high school students are navigating these shifts with new perspectives on what success looks like. In this eye-opening conversation with high school teacher Nare Movsisyan, we explore the significant movement away from traditional four-year colleges toward trade schools and certification programs as students seek faster routes to meaningful employment.
Nare, who brings a decade of experience in education, reveals how students with clear career goals are increasingly choosing specialized training over general education. This pragmatic approach represents a fundamental shift in how younger generations view the purpose and value of education.
The episode uncovers critical gaps in our education system, particularly around career readiness. Despite the importance of preparing students for their futures, high schools often lack resources to adequately inform students about the realities of different careers. Basic professional skills—interviewing techniques, resume writing, professional etiquette—remain largely untaught. Through this conversation, we confront the reality that career education should begin much earlier and be approached more systematically, working backward from career goals rather than focusing exclusively on college preparation.
Ready to rethink how we prepare young people for their futures? Listen now and join the conversation about creating better pathways to success for the next generation.
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that your major doesn't define your entire career trajectory or the outcomes or the things that you have to do in life. And it only makes sense that if this newer generation is seeing that through their parents, their families, their communities or their leaders right in everyday life, that they're also questioning the thought of if higher education the traditional, idealistic version of what we think higher education is is worth it to work this entry level position and work your way up. So in 15 years you actually live the life that higher ed was supposed to give you your first two years out.
Speaker 2:You are listening to Coffee and Career Hour. We are your hosts. I'm Armina and I'm MJ, two career counselors and friends chatting about all things life and career.
Speaker 1:So grab a cup of coffee and join us.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Coffee and Career Hour. Everybody, we're excited to be recording this episode today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have some special tricks up our sleeve, don't we, Arminé?
Speaker 2:Yes, and we're super excited to be joined by an amazing guest. We'd love to introduce you all to Narem Mofsicien, and we'll actually go ahead and ask her to introduce herself, her expertise, her background and all of the amazing things she has to share with us today about the field of education and her expertise working with high school students. So, Nada, thank you again for being here. Welcome on board. Could you please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and your experience?
Speaker 3:For sure. First of all, thank you so much for having me. Like the girl said, my name is Nada Moffsician. I'm a high school teacher at Schur High School in Montebello. I teach CTE computer graphics and I'm about to actually teach an intro game design class next year this will be coming up in August. This will be my 10th year in education. I went to Cal State Long Beach for my bachelor's degree in graphic design and then later on I did my master's, my MFA, at Cal State Long Beach as well, with the help of Admina, by the way. She helped me finagle my artist statement to get in and I'm so thankful to her finagle my artist statement to get in and I'm so thankful to her.
Speaker 2:Um, I just have to say you were my very first client when career rise was just a seed in my mind and we were literally at a bar with a group of friends and I was telling you how I'm a career counselor and you're like could you read my personal statement help? Me help me. That was amazing. Well, thanks to you, my idea did come to fruition, seeing that I can actually do this outside of my 9 to 5 job. So thank you.
Speaker 3:And you've been killing it. But honestly, like Ademina looked at my artist statement, you looked at my CV. We took out all the crap that we didn't need Anything that was like important stayed of course, and like I really wouldn't have done it without you. I fully believe that. I'm just so thankful to you and thank you guys for having me here. I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Nara. Well, it's a pleasure to see you thriving in your industry and being able to bring your graphic design knowledge to your love of education and helping students. So in this episode, we're really excited to hear about your profession, your expertise, everything you've been seeing through your experience.
Speaker 3:Cool, I look forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and throughout this episode, armanay and I are, you know, college counselors and we work with higher education students and students of all different ages and backgrounds, and we wanted to bring you on here to really shed light on high school and we wanted to bring you on here to really shed light on high school college minds from that perspective, because career readiness really does begin at a fundamental age rather than when in higher ed.
Speaker 1:I think in higher ed is when it starts to solidify and you start to really take the steps. But earlier in your life, in your age right without boring you all to death with career development history, it really does start when we're kids and we're asked like what do you all to death with career development history. It really does start when we're kids and we're asked like what do you want to be when you grow up? So, nada, you, you shared with us. You have almost 10 years of experience, right, practically 10 years of experience in education and teaching. What shifts have you observed in the types of career students express interest in and are there any surprising trends that you've noticed so far? Express interest in and are there?
Speaker 3:any surprising trends that you've noticed so far? Hmm, that's a really good question. Okay, I'd say, when I started off, I feel like a lot of students have always wanted to go into STEM. I see a lot of different types of students. I see a lot of students who might do like ROTC and go into military. I see, like creative students. I see students who just work retail and they're happy doing that. I'd say like one of the biggest fields my students have gone into and still do is nursing.
Speaker 3:Actually, like, since I started, um, in terms of big shifts and like career decisions, I wouldn't say that I've noticed any really big ones, um, but I will say that there's been a shift kind of away from college um, if I'm being honest. So I've noticed that, like a lot of students, even when I was in high school, it was always like you have to go to college, that's it, you have to go to a four year. But now it's really moved towards like JCs, which everyone's always gone to JCs before as well. But trade schools have really come up and I think like it's weird, I feel like it's a pattern although I don't know too much about the history of like the emphasis on college and trade school. But I think that used to be.
Speaker 3:There used to be a really big emphasis on trade school before the 2000s.
Speaker 3:Then it went to this college shift and now again it's like there's so many I hope I'm using the term right blue collar, blue collar jobs that, like, people aren't fulfilling because there isn't enough interest in it, like, um, plumbing, welding, uh, graphic design can even be considered a blue collar job a lot of the time, but I feel like that's the trend that we're moving towards is like I'm seeing a lot of my students go into um, la trade, tech or platt college, some of these private colleges too, or even like Rio Hondo, cerritos, elac, and then doing certification programs there so they can get certified management, welding, electrician, blah, blah, blah, and then they just want to go straight to work.
Speaker 3:They're like, why am I going to go to a four-year and spend two out of those four years not focusing on my profession that I want to go into? And I'm sorry I'm rambling, but like a lot of the kids that actually don't quite know what they want to do yet which I was in that boat Are the ones who are going into the four years, whether they're going in undeclared or going into a major that they're like okay, I'm kind of interested in this. They're the ones that I see going to the four years more often.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's so interesting. What a great perspective. I wonder, you know, do you think it's because students are wanting to get into the job market sooner, feeling the need to just be more practical because they need to provide for themselves, whereas they're seeing four years as more of like a exploratory place where, if they don't know what they want to do, they're like okay, I could use this extra time at a college to explore, but if there is a specific skill or trade that they may, may enjoy, they rather just jump into that both of those, absolutely yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:Like they're the ones who do go to a four are definitely looking at it as like, okay, I get to come here and explore different um career paths. And then the ones that are going to trade schools, they're like, okay, I already know what I want. Do I want to go and be a plumber? I've seen my uncle do it and he's made a lot of money and he's like started his own business maybe. Yeah, the ones I think who go into trade schools are like, okay, I'm 100% in, I already know what I'm doing. I'm going to go get my certification in this and do whatever I have to. And then I'm gonna go get my certification this and do whatever I have to, um, and then I'm gonna start working.
Speaker 3:Like I have a student, leslie, this past year, who finished her AA while she was in high school, which is insane that they can. I was such a terrible student I'm like I would not be able to do that at all, but she finished her AA. She was attending online classes at la trade tech to get her electrician um certification. She finished that and now she's like, okay, there are these two other certifications that I'm going to do and then, hopefully, I'm going to get a job at ledwp, at department of water and power. She's just like she knows exactly what she wants to do.
Speaker 3:If only we were also lucky, like but yeah, the kids that are going to four years and I'm talking like ucla, uc, irvine, like the big ucs too they're kind of like I think I want to do this. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'll figure it out while I'm there, you know. So they're more like not entirely sure. They have kind of a general direction, but they're like okay, I'm going to use these couple of years to figure out exactly what I want to do and then make that decision when I'm there, pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I wonder, and what both of your thoughts are on this. Do you think it's like the value of education has shifted over time and there's that's why maybe they're not seeing the bachelor's degree as needed, maybe in the way that when we were growing up, when it was our high school age, it was more so like wanting, like you said, not as similar. For me, going to a four year, even community college, was a little bit taboo, I feel like in my day, and it was like all right, it's OK to go, but it's ideal if you go straight to a four year. That was a lot of the messaging my generation was getting. So I wonder what do you guys think? Is it the value of education that's shifted? My generation was getting.
Speaker 3:So I wonder, what do you guys think? Is it the value of education that's shifted? I think I'll make it fast, but I think our there's been a lot more of an emphasis on CTE and career education in the past five to six years. It's been growing, especially with the CTE teachers I work with. They're like they've always kind of made a point of this is not the only option, college is not the only option. You could do this instead if you already know what you want to do. But I also think that not just my friends, but people that I've known, and probably our students parents, have majored in something like psychology or communications or xyz and they didn't end up working in that field. So it's like they're they're questioning whether or not it's valuable to them to go to a four-year and get a bachelor's if they can do this instead, if they can do this instead.
Speaker 1:That's kind of my view. Yeah, I on that note specifically, armin and I always run on the messaging, regardless if you know we're working our nine to five or not, that your major doesn't define your entire career trajectory or the outcomes or the things that you have to do in life. And it only makes sense that if this newer generation is seeing that through their parents, their families, their communities or their leaders right In everyday life, that they're also questioning the thought of if higher education the traditional, idealistic version of what we think higher education is is worth it to work this entry-level position and work your way up. So in 15 years, you actually live the life that higher ed was supposed to give you your first two years out, if that makes any sense. So it makes a lot of sense that this generation wants to go into these types of opportunities, this education that's almost very quick, to provide them an opportunity to really jumpstart their career and get in there and get their hands dirty, work more towards whatever it is that they want to do, because it's a quicker route, there's less complications, it's financially sometimes more stable and feasible for a lot of different individuals as well. So it makes sense.
Speaker 1:I think that, though there is still this craving of this idealistic version of higher education and what it can offer us. And coming from a low income first gen person of color background, you know education for me was instilled that it was like my liberation, the thing that my mom could leave me behind the day she leaves or passes. It's the one thing that I can keep, that's mine. That can liberate me in different ways too yeah, all valid, I think.
Speaker 3:I mean, if we look at it too, I think there are statistics that say that, um, those who do get earn a bachelor's degree are paid more than those with, like, an associates or a certification. I think there's data on that. Um, but yeah, like it was the exact same with my mom was like you're going to college period, that's what you're doing. It was like she came from Armenia, and I think Adina's parents did too, and it was just like you're going to build your own future for yourself and this is the route to do it. This is what you're going to do to get there. You, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense because this generation is a lot of times maybe second gen, right, their parents already went to school here and have experienced those things that you're sharing, mj, versus our generation, our parents, our first gen, they didn't go to school here. So it's like these are the opportunities we didn't have. So we want you to take on that, and there is almost like this idealistic vision of what they thought the education could provide, but then the reality is there's a lot more than just having a bachelor's degree that's going to make you successful, and so I think now second gen kids, students, are realizing that there are different ways to become successful besides that. So it makes a lot of sense. What interesting insight Thank you for sharing. I'm wondering how informed do you feel like students are about the realities of different careers? Like you know, what does it really mean to be in a particular occupation and where do you think they're typically getting their information In a particular occupation and where do you think they're typically getting their information.
Speaker 3:So I think that they are not well informed. I don't think they're well informed at all. I think some of their teachers might do their best to let them know what the reality of it is of just going into a specific career. I can say for our school we need more of that, we need more career counseling, and I think I can speak for all public schools, at least in LA, when I say that we don't have the resources to teach kids what it takes to be in X career.
Speaker 3:You know, like this is one of the things that makes me so angry that we don't like invest in teaching kids about the reality of going into a career. Like I want to be a psychologist, okay, let's talk about how long it's going to take to actually get there. You know, or I want to go into engineering, or I want to go into this other thing. Like let's really like what does it take? We have students who want to go and become architects and, depending on the type of architecture you want to do, it may or may not involve a lot of calculus and physics, and I actually recently found out that it might not involve as much physics as I thought.
Speaker 3:So I think just this, I don't know. I don't feel like there's enough of an emphasis on career. It's all about like get good grades, do what you're supposed to do, let's walk you. Or like let's run you through the conveyor belt of public education. Good luck Afterwards, it's like figure it out. No, that's one of the things that I think is just severely lacking is education on just career education. That's it Severely lacking, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what you're touching on too is a lot of exposure at such a young age.
Speaker 1:Of course children are still, or young adults are still, developing there.
Speaker 1:But there's a sense of exposure because we have again this vision, this idea in our head of what XYZ career could look like and we automatically tend to think and I say we because I'm going to include myself.
Speaker 1:You know, I thought getting a degree in psych or a degree period was going to get me whatever job it could and the picture of my family painted for me when in reality, if I would have been exposed, if I would have been supported and provided resources, tools or shown and taught how to do career exploration at this early age, I would have had a better idea, I would have been more informed, I would have done things differently. That would have got me to maybe even a different route than career counseling Firm. Believer of everything happens for a reason. But I agree with you that career education, exposure and development needs to be taught at an earlier age so children can get and understand this idea of where they are, rather than thinking they have to pick one of like four or five things do the degree and then graduate, and then it's not the expectation they thought.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna piggyback on that too, because I think what needs to happen is like working backwards, because we put so much of an emphasis on college, but it's career that should come first. And, like we've, we've gotten some resources lately like, um, there's a program called Naviance, it's through oh my gosh, I'm blanking. They're called New Tech Network. It's this organization that was that's funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and we've like run a lot of our college and career days through that now and we have like it comes with little surveys that students can take to figure out, like, oh, what career would you be best suited for? So it's like moving in the right direction and it's using technology to do that, but at the same time, it's like it's just not enough. And, yeah, that that's what it comes down to. It's like having those resources might land students in such successful positions later on because they have an idea of their timeline after high school. Like now I know that if I do want to be a psychologist or if I do want to be a therapist, I don't just need my bachelor's degree Later on. I have to go. Maybe I could do a master's PhD program.
Speaker 3:All the kids think that you're just like I'm going to go to bachelor or I'm going to get my bachelor's, then I'm going to do a master's, like right away, like I'm just going to do it. It's like you don't know what that means to get a master's degree. It's like there's just so much miseducation about it or misinformation about it and I think the kids just look at it as like, yeah, I'm going to totally do that, it's easy. Yeah, I'll do it afterwards. It's like learn about what it means to get the degree. Is it going to be helpful to you? How long is it going to take? Do you even need it? All these things going to take? Do you even need it, all these things? Yeah, we just a lot of our counselors in public education are so focused on getting kids to graduate, which is a valid concern but it ends up they end up kind of like leaving behind those kids who kind of already know what they want to do and need guidance and getting to that place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you talked about working backwards. That's literally the phrase I use with my students in career counseling when they want to know about, like, what kind of jobs they would qualify for or what kind of occupations they're interested in. We'll talk about, like let's look at would qualify for or what kind of occupations they're interested in. We'll talk about, like, let's look at what it is that's needed, then let's work backwards to see what can you do now until you graduate, to position yourself for these types of roles. And I agree absolutely it would be helpful if we could do that process much earlier, while they're in high school, to figure out what kind of college Is a UC even needed? Maybe CSU is a better fit. We see that from our students all the time.
Speaker 2:I literally just got chills because we have these conversations with students. They'll be in a UC institution almost done, but realizing that maybe my major would have been better at a Cal State, because Cal States are more teaching focused versus research focused, like it didn't even make sense for you to be in a research institution, let alone talking about trade schools and certification programs and so forth. Right, there's so many different pathways to success, but students don't know all of the options. But I'm also thinking too is like how ready are they to do some of that exploration too? Because even college students aren't ready. They don't know themselves well enough. They don't know what they like, what they value, what kind of lifestyle they see themselves having. How can we expect like high school age students to really reflect on these things too?
Speaker 1:To quickly add on to that. I also think at a high school level age they're easily influenced right, like whatever they're seeing in their environments or online or in our leaders and the world. They're easily influenced by how accepting they are of these different suggestions or comments or ideas, really. So I yeah, armanay, I completely agree with you about how open, but I think that's where we can teach them right and we can provide different examples and go about the education a different way. It may not be as receptive in the beginning or when you're starting or to some, but to others it really may be, because it'll be the first time they're allowed to explore, to really understand what I like, what I don't like. What is a master's? How much does it cost? Getting a bachelor's is like a high school diploma nowadays, and what does that kind of look like from there?
Speaker 3:that's true. Um, I think it comes down to time. Like having those conversations is so important and, like you said, like it might not be well received, but I don't know. It just needs to be figured out. Like we have, we give these kids four years in high school to complete their the classes that they need to do, like whether it be biology and chemistry and algebra and algebra two and geometry, and I'm not saying like every single thing isn't important, but there are things that I don't. I don't know, it's not even even just career. It's just like 21st century skills needs to be taught. 21st century skills need to be taught.
Speaker 3:Like, no one teaches you how to interview unless you're in a special program like avid or pathways, whatever it may be. If you're not, you're not going to be taught how to interview. Well, like dress professional how do you dress? Do you come in a full tux? Like you know? Simple things like that. Or, um, how to make your resume look a little bit more professional, small things that you can do, like using title case instead of sentence, sentence case. Like making a resume what are you supposed to put there? That's something that augmena taught me too is like in my cv, you should also put things outside of just your like awards and career and education. Like were you part of a panel? Did you attend a conference? I would not have known that if I wasn't taught that by a career counselor. So there just needs to be. There needs to be a shift towards teaching students about preparing for careers. There just needs to 100%. There needs to. They need to make time, cut some time aside, cut something out and put that there, because without it you're done.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love the emphasis on the practical skills. I mean we see that in higher ed as well. It's the same issue. Because if they're not part of a particular class that teaches them how to navigate the university, or like a career professional class which is once in a blue moon, those aren't always required, those aren't always available. So majority of students graduating with a bachelor's degree still don't know those skills unless they seek career services and they come to us.
Speaker 2:Or that's why a lot of the reasons why our approach in the higher ed system is to go to the classrooms and offer our expertise where the students are at. We go to clubs and orgs, we present there, we present in classes and so forth. We don't wait for the students just to come to the career center. But even then, right, like if they're not in a space where we go to or they don't directly come ask us again, it's not embedded into the curriculum, it's not regular conversations that faculty have with them. So I think those challenges seep into higher ed as well and you're right, it's part of a bigger picture of things to think about, of how the system can change and evolve to meet these needs of students needs of students. As we are kind of thinking about the gaps in the system and what students challenges they might face, I want to kind of ask you what are some of the biggest challenges you see students facing as they prepare to transition from high school to either the workforce or some kind of further education?
Speaker 3:I think kind of everything we've talked about is just helping them understand that there is importance in education. I think a lot of kids just go straight into the workforce because they want to make money now. A lot of kids just go straight into the workforce because they want to make money now and they don't really think about how they can use their time to help themselves be more successful later on. So that I think again interview skills that's a really big part of it. They're not taught how to interview well. I think a really big gap is for our students who have IEPs. So for those who don't know, it's an individualized education plan, which a lot of our students have, or 504s, which a lot of our students have, or 504s, and they require some extra, almost like not rehabilitation, but like helping them navigate the real world after high school because they have so many support systems in high school and then when they get out, suddenly it's gone in high school and then when they get out, suddenly it's gone. You know, um. I recently learned from a colleague that there's the. There's a program with the center of rehabilitation in la that actually helps students with um, with their financials. Getting into college, teaches them interview skills as well. Like helps them in so many different ways, which is completely free and, I think, state or county funded. Other than that, I mean, it's everything. It's just figuring out exactly what career they want to go into, going to the right school, not just because their parents want them to go there, but it's because, like, it's going to be valuable to their major. Like you said, ucs versus CSUs, ucs versus CSUs.
Speaker 3:So we actually took a survey within our whole district a few months ago and we had a panel of eight students. This is going to sound terrible. They were asked how prepared they are to go to college and how much their high school counselors helped them prepare for college. And it wasn't pretty. I'll say that they were just like they didn't help at all.
Speaker 3:They just straight up said, like I was completely on my own and because a lot of their parents also don't have experience going to school here, they were just left high and dry and had to do their own research online, whether it be like preparing to go to a dorm or having the proper technology Going into school. How do they get their funding, how do they find scholarships and I would say our college counselor is really good at that, but a lot of other schools might not have someone who's so dedicated. So I think anything that we can give them will help, because a lot of these kids don't have any resources and some of them might not look for the resources, but for the most part I think a lot of them just don't have resources outside of just the internet. So anything can help.
Speaker 1:It sounds like some of the biggest challenges are just access to this information and individuals who can provide I don't want to say the correct information, but the information needed to get to the next step, whether that is furthering your education and whatever that means to them, or it's jumping right into the workforce. Right Interviewing could be interviewing at your local retail store or fast food place or your local hardware or liquor store, whereas further education could be community college. Right Could be higher ed, higher ed I always think four-year or any other type of certification program or anything else. Really that looks like that too. So it sounds like there just is a major gap in the amount of access and support there are for young adults who are making this transition, which is sparking.
Speaker 1:I've always said, if I ever go back to do a doctorate, I want to do my dissertation in a early career education curriculum program for LAUSD. For LAUSD, I don't know where we'll go with that, but I've always. I've always wanted to do that because I believe career education begins at an earlier age than when they're ready to leave college. So yeah, those are kind of my two cents.
Speaker 3:That would be so cool. There's. There's such a gap in that and I think any anyone who's willing to help bridge that gap like that would be amazing. I feel like it should start sooner than high school, to be honest, like just plant the seed in middle school so they can make the effort to go out and look for these resources in high school at least the ones who are willing to it would. It wouldn't just help individuals, it would just help our entire economy, like that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 2:Love that Well, let's end the episode with a little bit of hope and that I think having these conversations can be a great starting point for people in this profession and education, at whatever level, to start thinking about what the actual needs and challenges and gaps are in the system and how we can start to mitigate that. And maybe it starts with MJ's thesis or dissertation, or you know. We'll see how things evolve over time. I mean, ai is advancing extremely fast and that's going to shift the workforce and the education system as well. There's going to be a lot of changes. I think in the next 10 years that we'll see. So things to think about and conversations to be had. But we do thank you for being with us today, nada, and providing such invaluable insight. It's do thank you for being with us today, nada, and providing such invaluable insight. It's been really great to kind of start thinking about these things on our end as well. So we appreciate your time with us.
Speaker 3:And I appreciate you guys having me on here and I'm sorry for being the Debbie downer. It's things that I think have to be talked about, like you said, for us to get to a good place and to just improve our entire future.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy our show, we ask that you write a review on Apple Podcasts to help us reach more people looking to level up their career.
Speaker 2:Want to connect with us, be sure to follow our Instagrams and websites Follow Career Rise on Instagram for career advice and motivation to help you stay up to date on all things career. Be sure to also visit my website, careerriseorg, to book a career counseling package and access free career resources. My goal is to help you clarify your goals, make a plan and feel confident in your career journey.
Speaker 1:You can follow me on Instagram at careerconfidentlatina, for your daily dose of career advice and my journey as a first-generation Latina counselor. You can access free resources or even work with me by visiting my website, careerconfidenceonline. I want to help you grow your confidence and help you reach your career dreams. Adios.