Acts 6+7: Two Kinds of People

Summary
On this week's podcast, Gregg Demey (Lead Pastor), Caryn Rivadeneira (Director of Care and Worship Planning), and Jennifer Stolzenbach (Deacon) wade into Acts 6&7, which covers the birth of the Deacons and the death of Deacon Stephen, the first Christian martyr. They discuss why "Kill the Deacons!" was a popular rallying cry against the early church -- and Deacon Jennifer reveals the secret power of today's deacons.

Today's Hosts
Gregg DeMey, Lead Pastor
Caryn Rivadeneira, Director of Care
Jennifer Stolzenbach, Deacon

Note: Wade in the Word is a weekly podcast designed to take a deep dive into scripture for the weekend message. Join our pastors, staff, and occasional special guests as we reflect together.

Wade in the Word podcast is a production of Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, located in Elmhurst, IL. Wade in the Word is produced and audio-engineered by Kyle Olson, Technical Director. For more information about Elmhurst CRC or to find out about other tools and resources to grow you and your family in faith visit elmhurstcrc.org.

Transcript

Speaker Gregg DeMay 0:01   
Hey friends, thanks for joining in with the Wade in the word podcast here at Elmhurst CRC, we're going to be diving deep into Acts chapter six and seven today, Pastor Greg here sitting with Caryn Rivadeneira, our Director of Care. Hey, hey, Caryn has recently had a birthday, I guess have I in the last month? It's kind of a running joke about who's older. Karen and I are actually the same age. Greg is although it might not look that way. Because I look so much older.

Speaker Caryn Rivadeneira  0:33  
Gregg thought that he was much much younger I think then me for a while.

Speaaker: Gregg  0:39  
Yeah, fingers back, I was appalled to learn we were the same age now. Unbelievable. Anyway, we were at college the same time lived in different states. But here we are. And also sitting here today with Jennifer Stoltz and Bach, a real live Elmhurst CRC, Deacon, Hey there, hey, I'm realizing that for those of us on church staff, we're a little weird, I think, in that we're in front of people that are in front of microphones a lot and for the rest of humanity that is sane and healthy. Like having a microphone in your face is maybe a little bit awkward. So I'm really thankful for Jennifer, for being here today to share in this conversation with us because x six and seven is all about the beginning of the deacon movement in the Christian church movement that last until this day, and then an amazing talk that one of the first seven deacons a guy named Steven gives. So thanks for being here, Jen. Thank you. Awesome. So we are going to kick into the first seven verses of Acts chapter six, and then talk about the kind of the problem the situation that gave rise to the first deacons.

Speaker:  1:48  
Alright, sounds good. So it begins like this. In those days when the number of disciples were increasing, the Hellenistic Jews among them complained that the Hebraic Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. So the 12 gathered all the disciples together and said,

Speaker  2:07  
it would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the Word of God in order to wait on tables, brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of spirit and wisdom, we will turn this responsibility over to them. And we'll give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the work.

Speaker  2:25  
So this proposal, please the whole group, and they chose Steven, a man full of faith and full of the Holy Spirit. And also Philip, procuress, Nicanor, Tim, on Parma, nos, and Nicholas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. And they presented these men to the apostles who prayed and then laid their hands on them.

Speaker  2:46  
So the Word of God spread, the number of disciples and Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Speaker  2:55  
All right, so once again, there's all kinds of problems in the early church, and I love it that the Bible doesn't sugarcoat or kind of wash over these things, but kind of dwells on I mean, first, what happened with Anna Nyah, since the Fira and then the early persecutions, and just the authority of the Jewish leaders coming down again and again, and the early Christians, and now here comes another problem from within the church. So this maybe takes should take a little explaining. So we have two groups here, Hellenistic Jews, and he break Jews. You want to say anything about that car? And or shall I?

Speaker  3:35  
Yeah, you can't I mean, I'm guessing I'm assuming it's Greek Jews, ones who live outside of traditional land and Israel

Speaker  3:49  
Exactly. So 2000 years ago, in the ancient world, I mean, Alexander the Great head kind of run roughshod over the entire known world, and kind of the Greek language was the equivalent of what English is now kind of the language of business and trade. And if you're gonna have a meeting with people from four different countries, and countries were smashed together closer together than like that what we experienced in the United States of America. So there's this need for a common language and Greek was that so there's all kinds of folks living in other countries who are Jewish, who their main language was Greek. And there's kind of a high turnover rate between Jewish folks who would be living in Israel or the Holy Land, and living abroad. And now in the early church, there's these two populations, kind of Jews who are from Israel, and Jewish folks who are kind of Greek speakers and therefore kind of have different culture. Not only different language, but probably different customs dress, preferences. And one thing human beings love to do is divide the world into two groups. I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but like here in Chicago, we have White Sox people and cubs people? Right? Yeah. So, I mean, it's not uncommon to hear somebody start a sentence with like, there's two types of people. And at church, it would be like people who like the Oregon and people who like the band, right? Like, it's very easy to, I don't know, you know, find something. I like to say there's two types of people in the world, people who like to divide the world into two types of people and those who don't. Yes, you say that often. I try to be the kind of person who sees us all in the same, the same bucket, I think we share far more in our common humanity. But that's the origin of this problem, that there seemed to be maybe even possibly a little bit of preferential treatment, or at least some cultural differences that led to some hard feelings of like, you're sharing more with the native population?

Speaker  5:55  
Yeah, I want I think that's the, I mean, you know, the difference between a Cubs fan and White Sox fan splitting the world that way. I mean, that's just friendly competition, or whatever, and sort of fun, but this sort of competition gets to the heart of right. That's not fair. You know, that's, you know, in the way we tend to do that too. Well, they're getting this treatment, they're getting that and that's

Speaker  6:14  
Yeah. If you ever grew up with a sibling, or there would be this. Jennifer, you have four kids. Do your kids ever complain about this kind of thing? Oh, for sure. Yeah. In fact, you have twins making it all the right more complicated.

Speaker  6:30  
Yeah, they are pretty clear about who are which one is mom's favorite. Dad's favorite. And so we do battle that quite a bit. But no, there are no, we love you all the same on any particular day. Yes, one of you may be a little more favored as far as the way you're behaving towards us towards each other. But yeah, it's, it's always there that,

Speaker  6:57  
that? Yeah, right on. So there have been a lot of miracles or a lot of signs and wonders early in the book of Acts, and think it's notable that God interests, the church to figure some things out. Right, and this is one of those things. I mean, I suppose there could have been a miraculous feeding of 5000, you know, kind of part two, or part three, in the early church. But that's not how the Holy Spirit addresses this one, but trust, the responsibility and the administration and decision making powers of the early church to sort this out and figure this out. So at the heart of this, though, is kind of the issue of widows in the ancient world. So for sure, being bereft of your spouse, or being a single parent, in any age, or any culture is a hard road to walk, but especially in the ancient world, to be a single woman without the benefit of the provision and the protection and, you know, male dominated patriarchal society. I mean, it was to be in a very vulnerable, disadvantaged position.

Speaker  8:12  
Totally. But I mean, I guess one of my questions coming out of this, especially since it talks about these were, you know, two groups of Jewish people finding out this, like, this had been taken care of orphans, and widows had been part of Jewish tradition, going way, way back. So do we think like, were they not being cared for is the is they had been taught to, as the law told them to, I guess, and provided for so. I mean, this isn't like a uniquely Christian thing to do. This had been part of the Jewish tradition all along. So why do we think they weren't

Speaker  8:45  
being cared for? I think this is a great example of growing pains and kind of the continuity and discontinuity from Judaism to early Christianity, because probably these women had been cared for at their synagogue, and through observance of the law in the Jewish tradition. And now as there's becoming more and more Christians, like we don't see this in the Bible, but maybe their local synagogue was like, you're on the way with those people now. So we're going to care for our own and are not going to, you know, again, the Bible doesn't say that, but I'm suspicious. That's kind of what's happening, that these needs are more acute as Christianity grows and becomes more independent and may be disassociated with sort of the root of Judaism.

Speaker  9:29  
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, especially if they were actual Greeks and whatnot, becoming Christians and coming into these places. Maybe there was a little more tension there as well. Yeah.

Speaker  9:40  
So there's, there's some prayer, I'm sure there's some conversations and discernment. I don't know if there's a formal nominating process doesn't seem like they took a vote. Unlike when Judas is replacement was chosen in Acts chapter one. There are no lots recorded here. It seems like it's more up to The prayerful and decision making process and seven are chosen. In fact, in Acts chapter 21, they are called the seven, which makes it seem like I don't know something the lord of the rings are Magnificent Seven. But anyway, they they obviously were very effective and somewhat themed as a group of deacons. One lovely detail is that these men are presented to the apostles, there's prayer there already previously full of the Holy Spirit, it says, But literally, they've lay their hands on them. I love that really in an unbroken line. Pretty much in every church I've been a part of whenever there's new elders or deacons, there's like the same thing that we pray for the feeling of the Holy Spirit and lay hands on. So as a person who's been ordained in a couple different situations, like it's really impactful and meaningful to me, assuming you had this experience, I'm not remembering exactly what room it would have been in Jennifer, think it was here, right here. Yeah. But to kind of think that whatever Peter and john lay their hands on Steven and Steven laid his hands on somebody else who laid their hands on somebody else. And then here you are at Mercy, or C to nearly 2000 years later, right? It's the same Holy Spirit and literally like the touch of the hand and the baton, kind of passing in that way. So in the English translations, it's some it feels a little derogatory, maybe the ministry of the deacons, or what the apostles say, right, because they say, you know, it's not right for us to neglect the ministry of the word, and kind of kind of imagine them like holding their hand up high, in order to wait on tables hold hands down low. But I think that's a wrong way to imagine it, quite frankly. And one of the awesome things that come out of this is that the early Christian Church has this two barrel approach of like, for sure, we're addressing spiritual needs, emotional needs, mental needs, but also like material and tangible and just basic survival needs at the same time. And the verb that's translated wait on tables is the verb. Forgive me for a little bit of Greek, but it's the same word that we get the word Deacon from, which just means to, to serve, right to meet needs. So I think in our culture, like wait on tables might feel like minimum wage job or you're overlooked. So I just like when a raise that up in terms of I don't know, it's, it's just total essential pneus. And the nobility of it?

Speaker  12:44  
Well, it is what Jesus did. I mean, literally, he waited on these same people who would have been saying this, so I don't think that they'd be speaking derogatorily. And then, of course, I mean, we read that through these actions through serving the widows, the Word of God spreads. So I think that that's, you know, it's definitely still is I, I don't want to elevate the deacons too much. But it is, I think one of the most amazing things that has ever happened in the church and continues to be that way too. I big, big fan of the work that deacons do.

Speaker  13:15  
It didn't strike me as derogatory either. However, yes, it is routine work. feeding people you have to eat every day you have to physically eat, have spiritual food. So it's very important. And like you said, this double barrel approach that we are the church, and it is all of our responsibility. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't see it as we are the disciples and we need some people to do this routine. waitressing so that we can focus on prayer and ministry. But that is what they needed to do. Because it wasn't the time involved in Yes, we see it with what we do as deacons here that it does take a lot of time to walk with individuals to participate even in the church, you you couldn't possibly expect your disciples, your pastors, your one director of care to do all of these things and be able to give attention to the actual Ministry of the word and prayer for us. Yeah.

Speaker  14:30  
So it's striking to me that the original deacons were helping single moms, widows, and one of the great things that God has entrusted and brought to life here is a ministry to single moms. And certainly there's a bridge between single mom ministry and the deacons. So I'm just wondering if you can comment Jennifer on just like what's what's at the core. more of what our deacons do here at Elmhurst, CRC and 2021 21. Do you?

Speaker  15:05  
Yeah, you know, I would say, let me back up a little bit when when we had our first in person meeting, I believe, at the beginning of 2021, and we were sitting far apart and you attended that meeting? and kind of put that question to us. What is our focus as deacons in 2021. And we're still trying to figure that out. But for sure, this close connection between our shoe ministry and what we do with benevolence, being stewards of what our very generous congregation allows us to use to serve single moms, we do work with the widows at Christmas time we visit with them, have lunch with them, give them a small gift. And we you know, we also spend time meeting with new members. It's been virtual for quite a while now. So I didn't have a personally a lot of experience with that, but still important, unnecessary building up of our church community.

Speaker  16:20  
Yeah, I'd see it, you know, I go to the deacons meeting as a staff liaison. So I've been doing that for a few years now. And I am just continually amazed it just the good spirit that's in that room of just these amazing people. I mean, it really is humbling, I mean, not everybody can come to a deacons meeting, because it's, there's a lot of, you know, confidential stuff that goes on there. But just to see all these different people from different experiences and walks of life, who have been, you know, chosen by God for this time in place, seeking to care so appropriately for people and really trying to seek what's best, and looking at ways of how to really step in and help people I mean, it's just a really, really, really beautiful thing. And it makes me feel super, super proud of this church every time I'm there, because there's also just such wisdom. And, you know, I see even in these verses just really the call, you know, for helping the widows as Greg, as you'd said, I mean, they were the most vulnerable, you know, probably only slaves were the maybe more vulnerable. But that's really the call. And that's who Jesus tended to. And that's, I think, what we see our deacons doing too, and in such a caring, loving way, because obviously vulnerable people are vulnerable. And the world is out there to take advantage of that vulnerability. And to know that the church is is kind of stepping in the gap. And not only helping provide needs, but just offering some level of protection and a lot of ways to from the sharks of the world.

Speaker  17:48  
So what you're telling me is deacons do more than just pass the offering baskets, that's what I'm hearing. When I was a kid, that was totally, I thought deacons just kind of made their ways up and down the aisles in church and maybe counted the money. Actually, I don't know if I ever thought about that as a kid, but obviously, there's a connection to the material resources of the church, and then the sharing and distributing the stewardship of those resources, which is, I'm sure how deacons got into the public collection business in the Protestant era.

Speaker  18:22  
For sure, but I mean, it's even more I mean, the time that these guys spend with people is just astounding to me. I mean, honestly, the phone calls and texts and showing up and, you know, calling, you know, getting on the phone with somebody and when they have to make difficult phone calls. I mean, it is just really it's amazing. Now, no one's gonna want to be a deacon. It's beautiful work, but it's,

Speaker  18:44  
it's amazing. And I had no idea three years ago, I remember that first Deacon meeting the orientation, they was hard for them to really describe. And they said, you know, you really have to go through the process. And, yeah, I think it takes maybe a full year to get comfortable with that. meeting with people trying to discern what they need and give them a path. By no means we're experts, or can really step into their life in a complete way and say, you know, do you do this? Do you do this? That is not what deacons do. We want to give encouragement, I do personally always try to first and foremost give encouragement that they are strong, powerful. They are a child of God, if it's a single mom, for example, that you know, God has a special protection for their children, and really, kind of establish that foundation that yes, you are in crisis. You're, you know, maybe physically in crisis, something's happening in your life, your your car's broke down, you can't get to work, you can't get to the grocery store. And we're gonna we're going to take care of that we can we can take care of that and we will step in Give you really for that situation. But what's what's more significant in your life? And what deacons? Although, you know, sometimes I'd like to say that we do a great job, but there's always room to improve is focusing there heart on spiritual health and that relationship with Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful.

Speaker  20:35  
I was just talking with a new grandma yesterday. And she's talking about just holding her infant grandbaby first for her for the, I mean, the very first time, and just how overwhelmed she was by two things. Number one, just how, at the beginning of a human life, just recognizing, wow, this person has so much to learn, like, they don't have a language they can walk, like, of all the animals on earth, like human beings take the longest time to develop, right? Because our brains have the greatest capacity. So the timeline gets stretched out. But at the same time, this grammar was saying like, you know, this child, like, I know, they're imperfect, in some ways, like in their soul and their character. Maybe there's some whatever. I don't know that anybody thinks like, my grandbaby actually has slightly over large ears. But like she said that and then was like, but this child at the same time is like, the perfect thing in this world. And I would not change a single thing about this child. And I think any maybe parent or grandparent kind of like, recognizes those, those two thoughts that just come on with overwhelming force when you hold the new little baby, your men, she said, and then I realized, like, this is how God perceives me. And I think oftentimes, we lean into, like, I have so far to go spiritually, I've so much to learn, and I'm still such a preschooler in my spiritual life, but I think the other side of it, like really overwhelmed her of like, God's acceptance of No, I made you You're perfect who you are, I'd love you, because I may do exactly this way. And of course, there's so much to learn. There's so much to, like, grow into. Why did I start on this? Because I think that one of the comments you made as a deacon, I think, like sharing that perspective to people is like I was hearing resonance with that of the even people when they're in crisis, of helping empower people or to recognize their own gifts and potential and energy and God given resources. And then also to recognize, yeah, totally, you need help. Like, we all have a long way to go.

Speaker  22:58  
Right. And on some very basic level, hopefully extinguish, if even for a moment, that overwhelming fear that they have. And I think it's really hard to approach a church or even a staff member or for sure, the deacons, we, you know, we know that it's incredibly hard to say I need help. It's hard for me, it's hard for all of us to say I need help. And so, you know, I try to always we try to recognize that as well, that you're, you're brave. Again, you're you're strong this year, you're helping your family by taking this step towards the church towards Jesus and letting God kind of take the wheel for a moment. And through us through the church.

Speaker  23:48  
Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, no one looks down on a kid when they asked for help or cry out for help.

Speaker  23:53  
For sure, it it I mean, it is so hard. I love that you say that to people, because that's, it's such an obstacle for people. They think like, Oh, this is so embarrassing. This is gonna be so hard. And yeah, it is hard to ask for help. And yet, I, I don't know a person who hasn't needed to ask for help in some way. And honestly, it's in that act of asking for help that you're able to, I don't know, it just changes everything by life. I mean, I've had to ask for help financially for all sorts of things in our life, and it's just God has worked through that so amazingly. And so I think you're saying that thing? Yes, it is brave. It takes a ton of courage. And you do sort of get to be, you know, those moms and stuff a hero to their family and they're modeling something really important that it's okay. It's okay to need help. And there's people who help you and yeah, love that. Yeah, I

 Speaker  24:44  
hadn't thought of that. It really is beautiful that they are modeling for their children. A great example of I can't do it all myself. You know, American Christians, Americans, we can do it or any productive

Speaker  25:00  
I confess I'm the worst of this. Just like yesterday, I was playing music somewhere. And like I had to make two trips with musical gear to the car and two different people asked to, I was kind of in a hurry to leave to get back to church. Two different people offered to carry something for me. I was like, it's only two trips. And then one of the women that I was leaving with was like, Greg, you just need to let someone help you once in a while. Like, you're right. When you

Speaker  25:28  
came back, I offered to help you unload. You said, it's just one more trip. You didn't learn Greg? Well, there was a whole hour between those two experiences.

Speaker  25:38  
That's okay. I have a good friend who is always reminding me that it's okay to ask for help. You should ask for help.

Speaker  25:43  
Yeah, so here's the thing if we live long enough, like things start falling apart to the degree that we will be in physical need. So as three middle aged people, like there's some reading glasses here, so I'm just even the thing of like asking your teenage kid like the prints too small. Can you read this for me? And then multiply by high to know some exponential factor for every decade that we get older? For sure. All right. So in terms of Stephens life, it's going great until suddenly gets not so let's pick up at verse eight.

Speaker  26:20  
I think that's me. Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power performed great wonders and signs among the people. However, opposition arose from members of the synagogue of the freedmen, Jews from sirene, and Alexandra, and as well as cilicia, and Asia, who began to argue with Stephen, but they could not stand up against the wisdom the Spirit gave him as he spoke, then secretly persuaded some men to say, we have heard Stephen speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God.

Speaker  26:53  
So they stood up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin they produced false witnesses who testified this fellow never stopped speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth, will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to

Speaker  27:15  
us, you know, who are sitting in the Sanhedrin we looked intently at Steven. And they saw that his face was like the face of an angel. While that's quite something, don't often describe dudes as looking like they have the face of an angel. ever had that experience? Seeing someone's face glowing? I guess it feel that way. Like sometimes you see somebody, like if you're fresh off a run, or if you've had like the best rest or vacation ever, or I don't know. Even love. Yes. good night's sleep. Yeah.

Speaker  27:57  
I was just thinking like, the times when you need help, like the times that I've been, like, stuck on the side of the road or whatever, and somebody shows up and they don't look like they're going to murder you, you know, someone who just literally looks like Oh, well. Well, it's a woman that's a whole other separate thing. Were you worried about that? Probably more maybe they need to go but just sort of that kindness but it also might you know, when? What are the names speaking to twins, Jennifer Jacob benissa. When Jacob comes back, he tells me saw that seeing him is like seeing the face of God. And I always think that such a lovely thing. And I assumed it meant because he thought it wasn't going to kill him. He was full of grace in that moment. But yeah, Wonder was Steven just shining and

Speaker  28:39  
Yeah, I think so. So I think like also, like if you're with a long lost friend, or like when you experience a particularly sweet friendship or togetherness or intimacy with people that like it translates into your countenance so I just take it in, like this guy is so plugged into God, are so intimate with God, that is just like, exuding out of his his pores glowing on his face. Yeah, sorry, I was gonna jump ahead in the story. But so a couple a couple things. So Stephen gets in trouble like is does he actually do anything wrong here? And I think the answer to that is, is no. A little a little geographic curiosity. So there's the synagogue of the freedmen. So literally, it's a Jewish synagogue of freed slaves. And then it refers to some other Jewish leaders from other parts of the Roman Empire. cilicia in Asia, so Asia is not like the entire continent, that we think of Asia, but it's part of Asia Minor, or the modern country of Turkey. So Asia, Asia is really like the western part of Turkey. If dear listener, if you know where the city of emphasis is, it's kind of on the Mediterranean or Aegean coast way on the west side of Turkey. One of my older sisters actually lives in a city called kusadasi. Right outside of emphasis these days, and then the other region is called solicitado, which is the south eastern side of what is modern Turkey. And the ancient city of Tarsus, where Saul named Paul was born is in cilicia. So the Bible doesn't say this, but quite possibly, Saul slash Paul is involved in this situation. And he does get a shout out a horrible shout out at the end of this chapter. So just the thought that, wow, one of the most powerful eventual Christian leaders, maybe as part of the false witnessing that's going on against the first deacons here.

Speaker  30:59  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's again, that's a little bit later on. We'll talk about that. But yeah, I've just how it was, like interesting that they obviously recognized that one may not obviously, but the writer, you know, recognizing that the wisdom of the Spirit was with him, and so that they had to secretly persuade that they had to go and do this political thing of like, let's go out and spread and spread rumors and take him down. I mean, that's just, yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty conniving. So not even that he was necessarily saying anything. I mean, I mean, stipple, it's what happens now, and politics are, unfortunately, probably churches or whatever, you know, you kind of spread the slander people and get them in trouble for things that he wasn't even doing.

 Speaker  31:44  
Yeah, I think it's an awesome line that when these false accusations or insults came down, that the wisdom that the Spirit gave Stephen kind of was more than up to the task. One of Jesus' lines in Matthew, chapter 10, is don't worry when they arrest you, seriously, don't worry about what to say or even how to say it. At the time, you'll be given what to say for it's not us speaking, but the Spirit of the Father speaking through you. So it's kind of a pretty cool fulfillment in Stephens life of exactly what Jesus promised along these lines. I think the other the other kind of false accusation going on is actually linked to Jesus Himself, too, who, on a few different occasions said about the temple, like destroy this temple, and in three days, I will rebuild it. So that's what kind of like one of the accusations of Hey, this guy is following that horrible person, Jesus who said, like he's going to wipe out the temple. And not only that, but like they're trying to undo the the law and the customs of Moses. So again, they're I think we'll see one of the early signs of Judaism, recognizing, maybe there's going to be more discontinuity rather than continuity with a Christian movement, and they're already starting to protest like, Hey, you guys are throwing out Moses, you can't do that.

Speaker  33:05  
can't throw Moses. Yeah. So Steven keeps going though, and gets himself in more trouble, which is really interesting to me. Because I mean, that's like a, we see that he's full of God's grace and all that, but he's obviously just super courageous. And yeah, not to slink away and, yeah, I find that amazing. Do we know where Steven was from? Does it say, Did I miss that? It does not. Okay. So we don't know. And I was thought of him as a like, a kid. But he's not. He's not super young, necessarily. No, I would think he's a grown man. He's a grown man. I mean, I realized he wasn't 12. But I guess I thought he was like, 18, or something somewhere in my mind, but seems like he's probably older than that.

 Speaker  33:53  
Every few years or so, I'll share an observation from the early church with the deacons, which is that in the Roman Empire kind of strategy for persecuting the church was, quote, kill the deacons first. So just in this double barrel approach of spiritual and material needs that recognizing like, wow, what part of what's making such a reputational difference and bringing people into the church is knowing that these people are like first in line to help with everything, like no matter what's going on. So if you want to wipe out the Christians, like cut the heads out the deacons first because that will diminish kind of the honor and the good reputation that they have in city after city across the Roman Empire. A lovely thought, yeah, kill the deacons first, Jennifer. So I'm wondering like, do deacons have a similar reputation today in society? I think if you interview an average american and pose them the question like what should the church be doing? The most common An answer for non church people is like taking care of the poor.

Speaker  35:06  
Yeah, for sure. You don't think debating doctrinal issues is the most important issue. That's what they argue with each other over truth.

Speaker  35:16  
Yeah, I mean, I think that's why deacons are I mean, why it is an amazing group of people and across? Yeah, denominationally. And although different churches, it seems like different denominations they do. Sometimes deacons have a little bit different duties or just the way they respond to, but I don't think culturally, we have that same understanding of maybe the importance of deacons. And maybe that's something that needs to happen that we need to promote the deacons or whatever the work of the deacons. But I mean, it's, I'm sure, it's also because there's also now today, social organizations and governmental stopgap things, but I think people really do need to be aware in the community, you know, as we do more outreach, and you know, even in the church of the work that happens with the deacons,

Speaker  36:02  
right, as you say that, yeah, you think back to Bible times that? No, there were no government aid programs. This was kind of their makeshift food pantry, if you will. But otherwise, yeah, the church was it to step in, because clearly nobody else the outcast, we're not going to be the you know, there was this great worry for widows, for good reason, because there were no other social services that we that we know of.

Speaker  36:35  
Yeah, I don't want to take too hard of a political turn. But I do have a little nostalgia for this. And like, obviously, love being America, American God bless America. But yeah, I think it is a modern problem that we look to the government to solve so many of our social, personal, just all kinds of problems. And they mean, it's an interesting study to look over the centuries of how not the church like allowed this, but just how the the movement from church and synagogue and spiritual communities kind of being at the front of the line to our shift in mindset to know of I have an economic problem, it's the government that should be first in line to help me out or address this or take care of this.

Speaker  37:26  
Yeah, I mean, there is something I guess sad about that, because it means the government. To me, I look at it the opposite way that, you know, the government stepped in because the church wasn't I think is probably what's more fair, that if the church always would have been super active about this, and making sure people were cared for maybe there wouldn't have been a need, but maybe that's way too simplistic.

Speaker  37:46  
Yeah, I think that is, I think an equally valid thing is that there's power that coheres Oh, sure, and all of these things, and centralized government is just a magnet over decades and centuries of accumulating influence and power.

Speaker  38:03  
No, I think that's true. And then there's efficiencies and things that the churches can't do in church and fighting and who will care for and who we want. There's lots of things there. But, but again, with that, I think the deacons here at our church, the and we do try to you guys do try to use outside, you know, agencies, there's all these parachurch organizations, but the beautiful thing about the local church and the ability to help, I think is the flexibility and the risk, you know, that you're able to act quite quickly, you know, when people have a need, unlike government, or unlike some of these other social services agencies.

Speaker  38:39  
Yeah, absolutely. And that is so cool to see. Again, not having have been able to observe that until becoming a deacon, I had no idea, no idea that and like it said earlier, it's confidential. So and we don't want to boast, you know, for sure that, oh, we're doing all these great things, but different than what the world does with the social service agencies, the government, I think, the centering part of what deacons do is show the mercy of Christ. And will mean that church can do that.

Speaker  39:23  
Awesome, beautiful and Amen. These early deacons also seem to do a little public speaking once in a while, though. So Steve, is drawn in before the Sanhedrin. And he takes us opportunity to give them quite a lengthy speech in Acts chapter seven. I'm going to read this and maybe take a couple brief asides just to break it up a little bit, because it's a little long for the modern attention span. Not gonna lie. It's a recounting of most of Jewish history. And remember, that the one of the accusations against Defend is in the early Christians that they're throwing out the law of Moses and Steven is going to spend the majority of his time talking about Moses himself, which is awesome given the accusation. So the high priest asked Stephen, are these charges against you? True? And to this, Steven replied, and what a long replied his brothers and sisters, no brothers and fathers, that's all guys in the same heater. Listen to me, the God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was still in Mesopotamia before he lived in Huron, leave your country in your people, God set and go to the land I will show you. So he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Heron. And after the death of his father, God sent Abraham to this land where you are now living. He gave him no inheritance here, not even enough ground to set his foot on. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child. God spoke to him in this way. for 400 years, your descendants will be strangers in a country, not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated quite a way to introduce a promise, but I will punish the nation they serve as slaves. And God said, afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place. And then he gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised and eight days after his birth, and later, Isaac became the father of Jacob and Jacob became the father of the 12 patriarchs. Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him and rescued him from all his troubles. God gave Joseph wisdom and enabled him to gain the goodwill of Pharaoh king of Egypt. And so Pharaoh made him ruler over Egypt and all his palace. But then a famine struck all Egypt and Canaan bringing great suffering, and our ancestors could not find food. When Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent our forefathers on their first visit. And then on their second visit, Joseph told his brothers who he was, and Pharaoh learned about Joseph's family. After this, Joseph sent for his father, Jacob and the whole family 75 and all and then Jacob went down to Egypt where he and our ancestors died. And their bodies were brought back to check them in placed in the tomb that Abraham had brought from the sons of him or at check them for a certain sum of money. It's a great way if you can't remember chapter and verse or a detail from the Bible, just certain stuff, some of what's actually recorded in the book of Genesis, but Stephen can remember, as the time drew near for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham, the number of our people in Egypt had greatly increased, and then a new king to whom Joseph meant nothing came to power in Egypt, and that Pharaoh dealt treacherously with our people and oppressed our ancestors by forcing them to throw out their newborn babies so that they would die. At that time Moses was born, and he was no ordinary child. He's just getting in this groove right here, Steven, for three months he was cared for by his family. When he was placed outside Pharaoh's daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was powerful in speech and an action. And then when Moses was four years old, he decided to visit his own people, the Israelites, he saw one of them being mistreated by an Egyptian. So Moses went to his defense, and avenged him by killing the Egyptian, not the greatest leadership move. FYI. Moses thought that his own people would realize that God was using him to rescue them, but they did not. The next day, Moses came upon to Israelites who were fighting, and he tried to reconcile them by saying, men, you are brothers, why do you want to hurt each other? But the man who is mistreating the other pushed Moses aside and said, Who made you ruler and judge over us? Are you thinking of killing me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday. And when Moses heard this, he fled to Midian, where he settled as a foreigner, and had two sons,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai