Episode 213: How to Stop "Playing Small" and Lead at a National Level | Sean McCrorie

Are you playing small because it’s comfortable? In this episode of The Uncommon Leader Podcast, host John Gallagher sits down with Sean McCrorie, a leader in national health research, to discuss the transition from "internalizing" challenges to leading with national influence.

Sean shares his raw journey—from overcoming childhood trauma and a 260lb weight loss journey to managing high-stakes research. We dive deep into why high-level leaders often stay stuck in the "One More Book" trap and how to start "buying the results" you want through executive coaching.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• 👉 The ROI of Coaching: Why investing in yourself is "buying your future perfect day."
• 👉 The Handstand Principle: Why balance isn’t static, but a series of constant micro-adjustments.
• 👉 The Coffee Bean Strategy: How to transform your environment rather than being hardened by it.
• 👉 Urge Surfing: A tactical tool for managing high-stakes emotions and mental health.
• 👉 The "Rock" Analogy: Why you can't see the third step from the shoreline (and why you must jump anyway).

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𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 Sean McCrorie👇

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Transcript

The Cost Of Playing Small

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think it's playing small. I think I was comfortable in doing something that was and it's not there's nothing wrong with doing something local. I think some of the best impacts are local, but it was, I would say, below the skill level that I had at the time. And I think a lot of it is you go through so many times of of building your confidence in this way or that way. And you are faced with the challenge over and over again. Okay, are you gonna really be about this? Are you just gonna talk about how you're gonna do big things or are you gonna need to do it? And I had had a a friend that had mentioned about this opportunity at the to do national research. And I just, I don't know, I just thought like, I don't know if that's for me. And I think underneath that the subtext is, I don't know if I can, right? And even though I project a lot of confidence and I am confident, there is always that little voice in the back of my head that will say, I don't know if I can, right? And I think sometimes we need people like yourself to call that the better part of ourselves out above us so that we can do that that better work.

Welcome And Sean’s Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hey, Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I'm your host, John Gallagher. Well, today's a personal episode for me. In these interviews, we often talk about the frameworks of leadership and coaching, but today we get to look ultimately at the fruit of those frameworks through the story of a friend of mine and a current growing champions client. His name is Sean McCrory. What a great Irish name. We'll talk about that a little bit as well. Sean's journey is a masterclass, though, in what happens when you make the decision to better yourself so you can better inspire and encourage others. Inspired by a powerful lesson from his stepfather that I hope he'll share with us, Sean has moved from a high-impact youth work in his local community to helping lead some national research aimed at reducing substance-related harm and saving lives across the country. Now, this is the first time Sean's sharing his story publicly, and we're going to dive deep into the growth that we've seen over the last few years and how he lives out his mission of helping at least one person breathe easier every day. So, Sean McCrory, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. How are you doing today, my friend?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I'm good. Thank you, John. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Hey, I'm doing well, and I'm excited about our conversation. You know the gig because you're a regular listener of the podcast. I'm glad you had a chance to be a guest here. But I'm going to ask you to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Sure. So I think the story that I would go with is I'll take you back to when I was six years old. So I had lost my biological father through some complications he had with diabetes. And I'm an internalizer. So my way of managing that as a six-year-old, like I don't have the words to express. I'm sad or I'm frustrated or I'm scared. And as a lot of people might do if they internalize, you might use food to kind of regulate your emotions. So that's sort of what I fell into. Um and then I had gone up to about, I think I was about 260 pounds by the time I got to high school. And you talked about decision in the intro, um, making a decision. And I just one day, I can't tell you anything specific that happened, but I just remember one day walking by a mirror in my house, and I just said, I want to change this. Um and at that time, that was the early 2000s, and the internet was just starting to get um off the ground, and fitness professionals were starting to come online. So I just Googled um how to lose weight. And I think the first article came up was a fitness professional named Tom Benuto. And Tom Benuto had written a series of articles about um, you know, here's here's how you eat, here's how you exercise. And what really got to me was the goal setting. And sort of this is sort of the door of how I got to work with somebody like yourself is understanding the power of setting goals, uh SMART goals. Or if I can say, I think you say SMAT, I don't have the Boston accent, but I know you like SMAT goals. And so I would set these these goals with specific outcome goals, and then I would set process goals of okay, how are you gonna do that? Because I can't just like say, okay, I want 30 pounds of fat to come off my body, right? That's an outcome goal, but you what's the process? Okay, well, how many times do I have to exercise? What do I have to do in the gym? You know, what do I have to eat in the morning? How do I have to prepare my day so that I have time to manage at the time schoolwork or or a part-time job? Um, and you start learning all of these different ways that it's not just a fitness goal, it's not just something that you would do in that realm. You can take that and it could be portable to your career, to school, your relationship goals. And then I decided like, okay, like let's continue on with this. And it was always sort of like a side project to me. And it was starting to give me confidence. I could talk to people in a different way than I used to be able to talk. I could have faith in myself that I could take on a new opportunity and accomplish it. Because if I could lose this amount of fat in the gym and with all those disciplines, then what else could I do? And then I think that the byproduct of that of what happens so many times when you initially go into something for one thing, you come out with something completely different. And I had landed a lot of mentors, people like Tom Benuto, people like uh Dr. John Berardi, which I'll bring up because that's how I ended up meeting you, is Dr. John Berardi was on a podcast with Jeremy Scott. And I think you were a client of his at one point and you were on his podcast. And I thought, I had just graduated from my master's program. I had done a placement with uh the Reach Out Center for Kids. You talked about the local community mental health center I worked with, and I thought, I want to take this to the next level, and I'm not sure how. So the thing that I usually do in those moments is I reach out to I reach out to somebody. So you just seem like the person. It wasn't I didn't evaluate it, it was more of a gut decision to contact you. And then we had our initial meeting, we set out, but I did another two years, I think, at the Reach Out Center for Kids, and then I had the opportunity to go and do that national research you were talking about. So I'll stop there. And if there's anything you want to dive into. Um, Sean, I love that as a story.

The Moment Coaching Made Sense

SPEAKER_00 5:29

So many different things. First, uh, thank you for sharing about your childhood story and how that impacts. And I know there are, I mean, just deeper things inside of that that that we've learned along our journey on the coaching side. And I was smiling because I appreciate how you shared the way that we got introduced. And frankly, I believe how God intervenes in many things like this. You know, you followed a guy, Burardi, he's on Jeremy Scott. You're listening to Jeremy Scott Fitness Podcast in Scottsdale, Arizona as an Irish Canadian, ultimately leading you to uh hearing me on that podcast, and as you say, connecting through a gut feel. What I love about that is again, is part of that journey. While it feels serendipitous, I believe that story was always written. But what I truly love in terms of what you say is that you've inside of the journey you have when you face a challenge, you look for someone else who's in a space that might be ahead to help you get through that, whether it's a coach on the fitness side or it's a coach on the business development or a leadership development side, or even some of the other things that we've talked about with regards to your hobbies. You're you're curious and you reach out to individuals, and I'm glad you did. And I know that, you know, as we uh walk together, it's been quite a journey the last few years. Now, I'm curious about the part that, you know, what was the gap that you had identified in yourself that said, you know, I need to think about talking to an executive coach as to where you were on your journey.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

I think it's playing small. I think I was comfortable in doing something that was, and it's not there's nothing wrong with doing something local. I think some of the best impacts are are local, but it was, I would say, below the skill level that I had at the time. And I think a lot of it is you go through so many times of uh building your confidence in this way or that way, and you are faced with the challenge over and over again. Okay, are you gonna really be about this? Are you just gonna talk about how you're gonna do big things or are you going to do it? And I had had uh a friend that had mentioned about this opportunity at the at the to to do natural national research. And I just, I don't know. I just thought like, I don't know if that's for me. And I think underneath that the subtext is, I don't know if I can, right? And and even though I I project a lot of confidence and I am confident, there is always that little voice in the back of my head that will say, I don't know if I can, right? And I think sometimes we need people like yourself to call that the better part of ourselves out of a bus so that we can do that that better work. And what it does is it ends up putting you into contact. I had excellent mentors at the public health agency of Canada to grow my research skills, to grow my communication skills, to grow my scientific skills. And it's also a chance for me to take like what I would say is my strongest leadership, my coaching ability, my my ability to lead with kindness and practice that in every day in instances where you would think that those things are regular occurrences, but they're not. So a kind word that you write, I'm very intentional with the words that I write. It really stands out and makes somebody's day. And then it makes you feel better and it makes you understand like you can have an impact on this. It doesn't matter if you're in a very kind of academic scene or a very like, well, this seems like bigger than I am. You can still kind of bring yourself to the job. And I think I needed to know that because so much of what I've done has been separated between there's academic Sean that's done these degrees, and then there's the Sean that lost that weight and continued on this fitness journey and never the two shall meet, sort of thing.

Investing In Yourself Without Guilt

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Both things that are huge to overcome, right? And then there's the mindset component. I smiled when you said the inner critic as well. I just spoke with someone yesterday on the podcast who referred to that inner critic as the what if whisperer. Uh, you know, what if this happens bad? Because it's normally not good stuff, that inner critic that sits inside of us. And we know that if it's not good things, again, back to the faith side, that it's not God talking to us as well, that he recognizes the greatness in us. And I think that when we can recognize as individuals that we are at a place that we haven't realized our potential, I think that's really cool. Now, you recognize this earlier than many folks do. A couple things that I would say, uh, I want you to talk to the person listening who may not believe that investing in themselves is the right thing to do. That it's like uh it's too expensive to do coaching, or the other might be it takes too much time to do coaching, and people feel guilty uh when they take the time either out of their busy day to do personal development. What are the thoughts that you know kind of led you to overcome that and and reach out and say, I'm gonna invest in myself?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, I think I think there's a tendency for all of us to look at the dollar value of a coaching service or a product that we're buying and then think, and I got to buy this and is it gonna work? And how much work do I have to put in? And of course, nothing really works unless you do the work. That is definitely true. But I think sometimes for me, when I've made those decisions, I've had to step back and I'm saying, I'm buying the result, right? So if I buy a fitness product back in the day, I was buying a book and I wasn't just buying a book to read it, I was buying fat loss, is what I was really buying. And then as a consequence of that, so like the work with you, I was buying, okay, I feel stuck. I'm in this current situation. I don't know how to get to the next level, but I bet you there's somebody I know. So I'm buying the next level for myself. I'm buying the dream that I have for myself. I think I'm very much about smart goals and I'm very much about kind of getting all detailed about the process. But sometimes when things are foggy, you kind of just need somebody that can kind of help you understand what the next side looks like. So it's like, what does your perfect life look like? What does a perfect day look like? What are the details? Who's in that day? What do you do in that day? And you realize that's actually what you're buying is you're buying a service that's going to bring you to that perfect day or at least move you towards that. And you'll have to course correct along the way. And if you buy coaching services like growing champions, you'll have somebody help you do that course correction. So that's the way I tend to look at it because I just I guess I'm still relatively young, but I get concerned sometimes that all these big visions I have in my head that if I don't make those decisions to buy a service to take me to the next level, it's probably gonna 50 years are gonna pass, 30 years are gonna pass, and it's like, oh, I didn't do it. And I'm just I think that scares me more than whatever, you know, the little bit of money I might have to put on the line.

Ambition With Real Life Balance

SPEAKER_00 11:19

No, I love that. Buying the outcome, and again, you are not just relatively young, you are young and still have a lot of years on your journey, God willing, uh, to succeed. And you're starting to put many of those things in place, whether it's again the fitness side and staying there, the faith side in terms of your development as well, uh, or this mindset side with regards to you know the outcome that you're looking for and always striving for something, continuous improvement. Now, that drive sometimes to others can come as there are areas of your life that may get out of balance. So, you know, you and I uh talked a lot of times and uh before about you certainly your desire to be not just a great leader and a successful business person, but also uh a great spouse, a great friend, uh, and maybe even one day a great father as well, great parent. How have you learned to balance those things out, Sean? Your personal development, we'll call it ambition in your own career with the needs of your family and friends.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I think this is a concern because especially in the personal development space, like if you go and watch motivational videos, it's always about all the work that you have to do, all the sacrifices you have to make. And I remember expressing that to you because I going back to that story I told you at the opening of the podcast about losing my father. My father was very overweight and he had a lot of health complications, which eventually led to his death. And I think I've been very, very concerned that if I don't take care of my health and I get out of balance, that might the same thing might happen to me. And now that I'm a husband, I think about it even more that I would be leaving a wife behind. And if I'm a father one day, I'll be leaving kids behind. And I think I expressed that to you sometime during our coaching journey, and you said, well, maybe that's the way some people do it, but how can an uncommon leader create balance in their life? Right. Speaking of Dr. John Barardi at the opening, kind of the way we met, is I always saw him as an uncommon leader because here's a guy that built a business on like about things that he loved. He built a health and fitness built uh specifically nutrition business. He was able to keep himself in phenomenal shape. He was able to be a father of four kids and a husband. And uh he would do things that were kind of uncommon at the time. He would do things like when kind of the mentors of my mentors, if you were in fitness in the early 2000s and 90s, you travel around the world. So you'd be on the road, you know, most of the time. Maybe you're in Australia one, you know, one week and the next week you're in Europe. And Dr. John Barardi said, I'm not that guy. I'm very introverted. If I go to those conferences, it really, really drains me. And it's just, it's just not how I feel I want to do things. But with the advent of technology, I think it would have been maybe Skype back then. I don't think Skype exists anymore. He was able to attend conferences virtually. So he could give a talk sort of virtually to a crowd if you couldn't be there in person. And then that would allow him to spend time with his kids or his wife and not kind of disrupt his his day. As you know, I'm sure you've had many challenges traveling, because I know you travel a lot for your job and trying to stay on your your fitness routine or or get the proper food. And can do does your hotel have a kitchenette that you could cook at, or do you have to make a better choice at a restaurant around your hotel? And I thought I it was just I I think that's the life that I want. And I think maybe subconsciously when I said there was a gut feel about what, you know, why did I reach out to John? I think it's the uncommon leader. I was like, that's that's what I want to be. And I think when I say being in balance, like I'm sure there will be weeks and there have been weeks where yes, I'll be working too much, or maybe I'm relaxing a little too much and I'm not, you know, I'm okay. Well, you're spending time with the family, but you're not doing, you know, the other disciplines that you should do. I think it's just if you think of like a handstand, somebody that's doing a handstand is never like perfect balance. They're constant, there's constantly little shift micro shifts and how they balance, right? And I that's how I think of balance is that okay, you go a little bit too far to this side, but then you pull yourself back through reflection or having a coach like somebody like yourself to say, you know, Sean, I think it's great you're doing this. And here's what I'm seeing above this area, that maybe we need to focus on those disciplines more. So it's a constant balancing act, but it's also make sure that the life you're creating for yourself is the life you want. If you I remember I wanted to be a doctor really bad, and I remember going to a doctor's clinic who was doing obesity management and he had so many clinics and he ended up uh being late for our meeting because he had gone to the wrong clinic because he had so many things on his mind. And I thought at the time, just because I just had the will that I was like, I'll make it work, I wasn't seeing the evidence in front of me saying, like, well, if this guy, this guy is a very intelligent man and he's got a very successful business and he's feeling the pressure and the stresses, right? Why do I think I would be any different if I try to replicate exactly what he's doing? And then I think it's finding people like yourself that maybe there is a way to do it, or maybe there's a way to do what he was doing, but do it from a different angle. You don't have to be a medical doctor. So I think because I'm very rigid, and I think a lot of people that probably are very goal-oriented can be very rigid. You set a goal and you're just gonna make it happen. And the idea of pivoting sometimes feels like failure or feels like, oh, I'm quitting. But sometimes you kind of have to pivot and you'll land on something that was better. Like working with you and working at the Public Health Agency of Canada was probably always a better lifestyle fit for me than being a frontline physician.

Therapy Faith And Daily Grounding

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Are you tired of being tired? I know I was. That's when I was glad to find own it coaching. Now my resting heart rate's down 20%, sleep quality up 300%. You know, I just ran my first Spartan rates at age 56. I feel better than I ever have. So if you're ready to stop settling and start owning your own health, go to coachjongallagher.com forward slash own it and set up a free call with the own it coaching team. That's coachjohngallagher.com forward slash own it. Now, let's get back to the episode. Yeah, thank you for that. I mean, again, there's so many pieces of that, that balance component that, and and you you know, you already referenced the six F's in terms of family and faith and finances that we've talked our way through and assess those and continuously, and what I love is that you're continuously assessing those and reflecting. The other side of that self-care, and it's something that's very close to your work, social work and and research in the space that you're doing it can be emotionally difficult for you as well. What's a routine for you that helps you to protect your own uh mental health is the process of looking for that next opportunity for you? How are you staying in a positive mindset? What's a routine that you do that keeps you going? Not just your weight, not just your personal development and leadership skills, but also your emotional health as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, so I think one of the big decisions I made in the last few years, and I was afforded the opportunity because working for the public health agency of Canada, we had access to benefits that I could go to a clinical psychologist and work through some of the trauma I had around losing close family members. And I think I made that decision a couple years ago. Uh I had gone to counselors before thinking, okay, well, this isn't really going to do anything. But if you work the process and you show up, you know, once a week or whatever it is that you decide to do, whatever the cadence is that you have, things will start unlocking through the therapy. Because if you have to you have to have faith and you have to trust in the process that this person that you've chosen to help you has the skills. And you might not see it right now, but if you do the work, the results will come. And some of my work was, you know, I've lost people to suicide. So doing work on a suicide was I think to me that it was having the impact on I mean that it was that I mean you would spend maybe eight hours of your day reading about suicide research. Um and I thought, well, I I feel like I'm I'm mentally like I've boxed that a certain way and I can I can do it. And I and I did do it and I did it well. But I don't when I was afforded the opportunity to switch the angle of the research I was doing where it wasn't so focused on suicide, I realized, oh, it's like taking a weight off my shoulders. Like I'm still doing work to help people. It's just from a different angle, and it's actually kind of better for me. Because I think there's something that happens when you go through trauma where you think, okay, what are the important books for me? And I had read it, I think maybe before my brother passed, but certainly at the time he passed, I've read it multiple times since then. Maybe you've read A Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel. It was trying to find meaning in suffering. The part of the thesis was suffering is not meaningful in itself. You have to find the meaning. So when my brother passed, it became I'm going to help other families and other youth, not have to go through what I'm going through. And that is a very admirable goal. And I still feel a pull towards it. But before working with this counselor, it was, I'm doing this to resolve my grief. I'm doing this to solve myself. And it shifted from, I don't think I need to do that anymore. And to answer your question more specifically about the practice I do, I can, I can go to counseling, I can, I can sort of my cat's up here. Uh I can go to counseling and I can um, I can meditate, I can go into prayer, I can talk with somebody like yourself, I could talk with my wife, I can um read poetry um and understand that if I feel bad today, that's okay. That's a range of human emotions. I mean, when I worked at the Reach Out Center for Kids, we would often teach kids you'd associate the emotion with the zone. So, like, you know, yellow might be the happy zone or or something. And always trying to get them to the yellow zone, it's doing a disservice, right? That there's no power in feeling sad or feeling angry. It's how do you manage those emotions when you're in it? And how do you not do damage when you're when you're in those states, right? So that you can come back to a state where you're more calm. So meditation is one way of doing that, prayer is one way of doing that, counseling is another way, reflecting with some people like yourself or just reflecting in a journal. So I always try to find those little moments of pause in the day where I can kind of let whatever's working in my subconscious mind or beneath the surface kind of work itself to my conscious and just kind of observe it. And you don't have to attach to it, right? I mean, that's part of the meditation practice, right? You just kind of let it go and let it come, and then it kind of will fade away. You can just watch um a coach that I had from precision nutrition, Krista Scott Dixon, who I've talked about with you multiple times. She used to call that urge surfing. It's just letting the feeling come and then watch it fall away. And sometimes it's really hard because those feelings you just want to do something to distract yourself. But I found that's sort of what, especially when I'm sort of in the eye of the storm now trying to figure out what's next, that is what's kept me grounded. And that's what keeps me moving forward. And it's about managing that state because there are days I wake up and I'm like, I don't know why I'm in this again. I worked so hard, I had so many good things, but things are outside of your control. And I know we're gonna we're going all over the place here, but I just want to add this piece because this is something that you really helped me with when I worked, is that F faith is one of the six F's. I I grew up Roman Catholic and I went to church, but I really wasn't understanding faith until I started working with you and developing a relationship about it. And when I say like being able to let go and let God kind of that didn't really work for me. And this is something that I've worked on the last few years that I've known you and has really helped me in this last year of challenge and struggle and trying to figure out what's next. And I think there's an investor, one of my like little side things that I like to do is I like to follow finance and investing. And there's an investor named William Green, he wrote a book called Richer, Wiser, Happier. And now he does a podcast under the same name. And he says there's moments in your life where you feel like everything's going right and it's like God's just carrying you through everything and everything's a yes. And then there's moments like what I'm in now, where it feels like God's kind of like like kind of like a parent, like you're a parent and you remember when your kids were small and you were you let go of their hand and they're learning to walk. And you but you're right there to catch them and make sure that they're okay. But they have to start walking on their own. And he said there's moments like that where it feels like that's what God's doing as like a caring parent. Let's go. Your hand and lets you walk and you stumble and it's uncomfortable. And that's sort of the period I am in. And William Green said, it's not about being in those periods and stumbling and falling. It's about how you behave when you're in those periods. How is your character? Are you still practicing kindness? Are you still practicing love in your relationships? Are you being a loving person? Or are you letting yourself kind of harden and become bitter? Sort of, I think one of the first podcasts I watched or listened to was the one you did with your wife, and you talked about the egg in the water and the coffee. I think it was called the coffee bean or something. The coffee bean, right? Absolutely. Yes. And it's like, are you going to let yourself be hardened by the environment you currently find yourself in or soften that you give up, right? Or can you be coffee and transform the environment around you? So I think for me, that's a lot of what I'm doing today is I'm doing something that I was very scared to do, is tell my story publicly. I just I have so much shame around it, as a lot of people that have trauma in their past do. Like, you know, you you kind of feel safe if you don't tell people. And I thought, yeah, but you can't affect people's lives if you keep it to yourself. So can I come on a podcast like this? And even if it's one person that listens to this, maybe there's some value in it they get in it that makes them do another go another day or makes them say, you know what, I want to transform this aspect of my life. And that's what has become the thesis for my career is how can I do that? So I can do that as a social worker at the Reach Out Center for Kids. I can also do that as a researcher at the public health agency of Canada. And I think the thing that I've really wanted to do that I've mentioned to you is become an entrepreneur and be a business owner. And I've just been really stuck at one, I'm scared to put myself out there, but two, I'm just not sure what I would do because I've always been interested. This is one of my, I'll say my challenges. I won't say a weak point, but I like to do everything. And you always say, well, you can't do everything. You can do anything, but you can't do everything. And that is the challenge that I still struggle with today.

Stepping Into The Light

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Look, I mean, the last four minutes are a masterclass and why I enjoy working with Sean uh on his journey. Uh he's the consummate student. Um, but you know, he also takes what he learns and and he applies it as well. He's not just holding it in as knowledge, he's using it as wisdom. And what I mean by that, I heard so many things uh in that uh not focusing on the outcome with regards to you know suicide or the you know that the topic that was there, but focusing on the process and what are the conversations you can have either with God or with those individuals to have an impact on them. You just said that, you know, if I just could have an impact on one person as a result of this conversation right here, that's exactly why we had the conversation. It's not about here of having millions of listeners or you know, how many downloads. While those are kind of fun process metrics, it's really about the impact that we try to have. And the third thing that I heard in this folks is you know, finding your purpose ultimately through the pain that you've gone through. This is something that that I know Sean has grabbed onto in anything that he's gone after, is that he's while he's trying many things and he's working through many things, his mission has not wavered. And when you're clear on that mission, there's no doubt about it. The fears that you come into with regards to your work and being an introvert and whatever those are, you can overcome those things. So I love the story that is the last few minutes of that conversation to your point, whether it was on many things or not, that's what it was. But there are nuggets in each one of those things that you said. You mentioned you're not really selling anything yet as a business, right? What is the one truth, though, that you hope sticks to someone listening who feels stuck in their current role? Like what is the what is the one thing you want them to hear? It's not that it's not the billboard question. This is just like, as you've gone down through this journey, what's the one truth you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah, and I suppose you're always selling yourself. I've heard people tell me tell me that. I think the one thing is exactly what I'm doing today is I was so hesitant. John had asked me to do this a couple of years ago now, I think. And I was so hesitant because I was just it's and we had talked about the thing before the camera started rolling for this podcast, is I felt like if I keep myself away from the public eye, if I keep myself, if I stop putting myself out there, I I can I'm safe. Like nobody can kind of hurt me that way. And I had quoted a song to John. I think it's true love is searching for you, but how will it find you unless you step out into the light? And I think very much so that in your life, if you're trying to come to a decision and you just can't muster up the courage to do it, it's about finding that one step that will take you a little bit closer and the the courage that you need to do that one step. And then maybe the one step. And then the thing that happens with doing that isn't just all of a sudden they've accumulated and you've done this great thing. It's the point is you go a little bit, it's like kind of like crossing a stream. You you you jump on a rock and then it's like, oh, well, there's another rock, but I couldn't see that from the shoreline. And all of a sudden there's another rock. So those rocks can be people that give you opportunities. It could be opportunities that present themselves in a certain way had you not taken this step. It could be somebody reaches out to you after being on a podcast and you have a conversation and it takes your life in a different direction. And I think sometimes it it has to be that you focus on the positive outcome. And it's not positive thinking per se, but it's focusing on what could be. What if it all goes right? What if it all works out? Instead of, oh, well, if I do this, these are all the bad things that are going to happen. Really, had I not taken that step to reach out to John, this podcast doesn't happen. But when I reached out to John, I certainly didn't think I'd ever be on a podcast. And as I said, I was reluctant to come on the podcast. So I think it's just taking that little step. And you probably know what that step is. If you get a little bit quiet, you can pray about it if that's if you're inclined to do so, or journal about it, or talk to somebody you really trust. And you'll probably find out what that next step is. And by taking that step and just committing to doing it again and again and again, opportunities present themselves. And I, and for me, I haven't really found another way to do that. That if you don't take the initial step, like nothing really happens. And it's not that I don't think sometimes there's time for for kind of relaxing and letting go and letting things happen, but it's usually after you've done a series of actions and then you let space for things to sort of miracles to happen.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, I love the analogy of the rocks that you talked about as well. Like if you take one step out, you may expose you know one or two more that you didn't see from the shoreline before you got out there. And and just taking that first step can open up so many different opportunities. That is so cool. You think about that step you took end up on the podcast today. We talked about this for a while. Whatever that is, the story's already been written. But let's go back now three years and you give advice to the Sean that you uh were three years ago. Um, what's one thing you'd you'd advise him with regards to the the leader that that he was trying to become?

SPEAKER_01 28:10

I think that you're capable, that you I think I and I still feel this today. I think when I look back at my younger self, is there's always one more course. There's one more book, there's one more mentor I need to talk to before I have the authority to do whatever it is to go and conduct national research or to become a coach or to become a business owner of some sort. There's always one more book, one more podcast that will somehow give me the magical answer. And the thing that it's not that there's not always something to learn, but I think when you study enough successful people, you're still you're still start seeing more commonalities than you do differences. And you realize, well, you've already heard this lesson before. But I think sometimes what happens is the teacher appears when the student is ready, that old, that old saying. Sometimes you hear the same thing that you've heard a lot of times, but for whatever reason, it clicks that day. And sometimes I think it's just it's continuing to try. But I would tell my former self or my three-year-old from three years ago, is it's you make the decision today and then you see what happens. And if you don't make the decision, if you don't take the action, probably nothing will happen. But you're you'll probably have more regrets when you get to the end of your life if you hadn't taken that action than you will regretting taking that action. As long as it's aligned with who you are and your values and your core values, as we've talked about.

Books Podcasts And Lightning Round

SPEAKER_00 29:24

I think that's so cool. I'd love that answer as you go through and thank you for that, Sean. Hey, listen, let's have the folks learn a little bit more about you. We're gonna have some fun up on the listeners as well as we go through this. Do a little lightning round. It's not something I always do on the podcast, but it's something that I know helps others learn more about you. So, aside from the Uncommon Leader podcast, of course, what's a non-negotiable podcast that you listen to that impacts you on a weekly basis?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

I think Rick Rubin's tetragraminant. So I'm not sure if you know who Rick Rubin is. He's a music producer. I th I guess it's been a few years now, but he wrote a book on uh the on the creative act, I think it's called. Um so he talks about the creative process because he's worked with I know you like country music, so maybe Johnny Cash, you're a fan of his music. So he's produced, I think, I think he produced six albums for Johnny Cash. Wow. Yeah. So I think that one of his famous covers of Hurt, uh, I think it's Nine Inch Snail's song, uh Hurt. That was Rick Rubin that helped Johnny Cash produce that. I think Rusty Cage as well, which was a Soundgarden cover. So kind of taking him in a different direction than I think he had been before. And I think it's it's something that I need to, especially when I like am very, very like science-minded, it's helpful to go to a podcast where it's not that he never has scientists on there, but it's a lot of discussions with musicians and creative people and understanding that every day there's a there's a choice you can make, a creative choice. Rick Rubin often says uh if you drive home, you usually have a route that you drive home and it's almost automatic after you've done it for so long. He goes, but maybe one day you decide to take a right where you normally took a left and it takes you in a new direction and you experience something new, or you decide to stop in at a coffee shop and you overhear a conversation that all of a sudden sparks an idea about your business that you were thinking about, but it just it couldn't come to you. But something they said connected the dots for you. And he argues that everybody is creative, because I'm sure you've heard in your people like I can't draw, I'm not an artist, I'm not. And he argues that everybody has that ability. It's just how do you unlock it? And I feel like listening to him, any podcast I listen to, whether it's yours or it's Rick Rubens or or any other ones that I listen to, it's about expanding my mind. So this is another thing to go back to when you ask me what do I do to sort of keep myself going and not fall into a negative state, is I listen to podcasts of they're usually entrepreneurs, of people that make me think bigger, make me think about possibilities. And that's where your focus goes and that's what grows in your life versus, oh, this is why it's not gonna work out. I'm not good enough. I don't have this, so this isn't gonna happen, or I've gotten to this age and this and it hasn't happened yet, so why will it happen now? It just completely shifts your state. And then in that state will allow you to take that action that makes you step onto that rock and then the next rock and the next rock.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Love that. We are what we consume, no doubt about it. And I love that you're looking for that on the creativity side. I did not know Rick Rubin, but as you described that, I'm gonna look that up here. Uh, what's the book that's influenced you the most in your career?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

I think I have to go with Man Search for Meaning. I I've already mentioned it. I think because when you go through, I mentioned I lost my biological father, I lost my brother when I had just graduated from my undergraduate degree. And just before we worked, uh we were working, I lost my stepfather and three grandparents. I think if I didn't have the the sort of base that Victor Frankel's uh for people that don't know, I guess I shouldn't just assume everybody knows what that book is. Victor Frankel was a psychiatrist, a Jewish psychiatrist, and he was in uh concentration camps during World War II. He ended up surviving and uh when he came out of it. He had a manuscript that uh he was able to reconstruct in the concentration camp and keep forward. And he had said many times he thought he wasn't sure why he was doing it, but it kind of kept him going because he thought, what about what's the probability I'm gonna get out of here and be able to publish this book? Well, he did, and he published this book on a man's search for meaning, it's called, and and uh he had uh constructed a whole psychotherapy modality called logotherapy about meaning being central to sort of human beings' existence. And for me, I'm always trying to create meaning in everything that I do because it it pushes me and spurs me to continue forward because I feel like when you're missing meaning, life doesn't make much sense to me. There's a there's a researcher named Andrew Brown who describes he's a happiness researcher at Harvard and he says the macronutrients. So, you know, I know we talk about fitness on this podcast, you know, fats, uh, carbohydrates and protein. He said the match uh the macronutrients of happiness are satisfaction, engagement, and then meaning. And he feels like a lot of people have satisfaction and engagement in things that they do, but there's a there's a dearth of meaning in today's society. He's just I haven't read the book yet, but he's just published a book all about meaning. And I think that's why that book directs me so much because I have to find meaning in the things that I've had to overcome. And so many times when you're bereaved or you're or something happens to you, your business goes under, or something, something doesn't work out for you. Why me? Why now? Right? And it's up to you. Life is questioning you how to answer the question. How do you find meaning and keep moving forward? And that's the only thing that I've found that's helped me.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

All right, all right. I love that. I love that. But now what now you're talking about macros and micros and eating good. What's your favorite ice cream flavor? Uh tiger tail ice cream. I don't know if they have it in the States. I've never heard of tiger tail ice cream. So what is tiger tail?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

It's like it's not orange sherbet, but it's kind of like an orange-flavored ice cream and it has black licorice in it.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Um and the the story that it's attached to is come on, chocolate is the best. And you know that chocolate peanut butter. You're supposed to be a good one. Chocolate peanut butter is good. I taught you anything over the last three years that licorice in ice cream is awful.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I'll get you some one day when we meet up.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Okay. Best Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

I think probably Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase is probably my favorite Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

All right, close. I mean, you're still wrong on that one, too, but I'll say the home alone is definitely the best one ever. The uh karaoke song you would like to sing the most. A sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond. Come on now. Now we're getting now. We're getting it. That is definitely one that's uh close to me, no doubt about it. Especially my uh West Virginia friends will understand that one completely. Favorite John Gallagher ism. Soon is not a time, and some is not a number. No doubt about it. Fresh in your mind, I hope, right off the champions, brew. This is uh so cool. All right, finish this sentence for me. 15 words or less.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

An uncommon leader is someone who commits to the process, aligns with their core values, and helps others.

Where To Connect And Final Message

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Dude, man, you were ready for that one. Like I use that all the time. That was and helps others. Love that at the very end. Sean, how can folks get in touch with you? They're gonna want to they're gonna want to learn more about you and uh get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, I think the best time uh is probably to go to my LinkedIn, and I think it's sincerely Sean McCrory. Um, so if you send me a message on there and I'm happy to connect.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Sincerely Sean McCrory. I love that. I will put the link in the show notes to that. Sean, this has been a blast. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as you had hope to enjoy the conversation, knowing that it's the first time you've shared your story, and I think you did a fantastic job. I leave you with the same final question that I have for all of my first-time guests. And you never know, we'll work you up to the five-time guests as things go forward and get you the robe when you're done. But I'm gonna give you a billboard, you can put any put that billboard anywhere you want to. What's the message you're gonna put on that billboard and why do you put it on there?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Yeah, so I think it's gonna, I'm gonna steal it from a poet named David White, and it's gonna make a decision today that your future self will thank you for. So my decision today of going on John Gallagher's podcast is what will my future self thank me for for doing this? What will it lead to? Will it be my own business? Will it be a connection that I never would have had had I not done it? Or will it just be simply the satisfaction of putting myself out there and challenging myself to grow?

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Sean, perfect. You know, I appreciate the journey that you're on. I'm grateful that I've had the opportunity to play a small part in that journey, and I look forward to seeing the fruit that will be borne with regards to the processes that you're putting in place and helping others uh what's going to be seen in the future. So best wishes for you, and I look forward to our next conversation.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Thanks, John. Very fun.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Hey, Uncommon Leaders, I know you had to love that conversation with Sean. I know that I did, and I'm so encouraged, and uh certainly have a level of pride as well for again playing a small part in his journey of development. Folks, he talked about it, making the decision ultimately that we need to continuously improve in our lives. And I hope you heard his passion that he's been carrying that forward with. You probably know someone who needs to hear this message as well. Hey, share this thing out with others. Share it on your platform. That's how we get it into the hands of more and more uncommon leaders just like you. Until next time, go and grow champions.