The God Advantage | What Entrepreneurs Don't Know About Divine Partnership | Shae Bynes | Episode 219

Kingdom impact in business is not a soft concept; it's a strategic imperative for executive leaders and any Christian entrepreneur seeking holistic profitability. In this insightful episode of The Uncommon Leader Podcast, host John Gallagher sits down with Shae Bynes, author of Grace Over Grind, to unpack how to build a truly God-led business through a powerful faith-based business connection. Shae shares her unique framework for "business meetings with God," highlighting how blending faith and business allows leaders to work with God, not just for God.

Discover how to infuse kingdom impact in business into your leadership development and team management. Shae Bynes, a pioneer in the kingdom-driven entrepreneurship movement, reveals how high-performing corporate executives and CEOs can trade the hustle culture for divine enablement. If you want to scale your marketplace ministry and shift from a traditional corporate grind to a purpose-driven business, this leadership masterclass is for you.

🔥 Core Frameworks & Insights We Cover:
👉   Holistic Profitability: Learn to measure success beyond financial metrics, embracing eternal impact and purpose-driven growth.

👉   Divine Enablement in Leadership: Understand why grace is not softness, but a powerful, empowering force for strategic decision-making.

👉   Kingdom-Driven Entrepreneurship: Explore how your business endeavors can be motivated and propelled forward by spiritual principles.

👉   Operational Alignment & Boundaries: How to set calendar boundaries and establish kingdom performance indicators for executive leaders.

👉  Beyond Compartmentalization: Break down the barriers between personal faith and professional leadership to untangle identity anxiety.



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• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaebynes/

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Transcript

Rest As Awareness With God

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One of the other things that's just a part of my work life is what I call. And it's something actually I mentored to each other's end as well. Because, you know, going back to that idea we were talking about, I'm all about with God, not just work, God, so I actually want to see God around concerning business. I'm concerning life of sports as well, but absolutely concerning business. So that's something that I specifically take time to do. And when I think about rest time, I'm not thinking just about rest from a physical perspective. I'm also thinking about rest from active awareness of the presence of God with me. Act of awareness of the presence of divine wisdom that I can see with me at all times, as opposed to I gotta do all the things in my own strength and then take a little break. Go to the God, take a break later, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I'm your host, John Gallagher, and I am super excited about my guest today. Kingdom Impact in Business and Life is one of those topics that's near and dear to my heart. It's become that way over the past few years, and we're about to receive a masterclass in Kingdom Impact. My guest today is Shay Bynes, the best-selling author of Grace Over Grind, how Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can't. And she's a pioneer in the Kingdom Business Movement. Now, pioneer, I'll be careful, Shay. That like that takes us back even to how old we might be in some of the things that we have. We've got some shared experiences here that, you know, with her leadership in a Fortune 50 company, on which we work for the same company before spending ultimately the last decade as a founder and executive advisor and an author. She's a master at helping high performers trade hustle for holy alignment and brings an energy that's sure to impact you today. So, Shea Bines, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Great to have you on the guest. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I am doing fantastic and thanks for having me, John.

Childhood Curiosity That Shaped Leadership

SPEAKER_02 1:59

No, it's going to be a blast. We kind of chat a little bit before we hit the record button. It makes this makes me excited about how much fun we can have in this conversation. But I'll start you off with the same first topic that I start off with all first-time guests. And I said, Tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you may be today as a person or as a leader.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Sure. So I'm actually thinking about a story that my mother told me. She rest in heaven, mom. But maybe about 10 years ago, my mom had shared with me a story, things about me as a child that made so much sense now. And two things that come up for me are one of the things she shared was that she never wanted to take long rides without me. Because she said, if I was gonna have a long ride and I thought I was gonna be tired, I wanted you with me because you were so engaging. You know, you you would have things, you'd have great questions and great conversations. So I always wanted to have you with me. And the other thing she said is that I never took answers at face value. So I was always the one that asked why. I always wanted to understand, not because I didn't want to do it or whatever. I just always wanted to understand the reasons behind the answers that I was given. And when she shared that with me, I just laughed because, you know, she was saying it just makes so much sense based off of the work that you do now with entrepreneurs and leaders and podcasting and the media stuff, because this is this is who you are.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And so that was kind of fun to see.

Chief Fire Igniter Origin Story

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Well, that's so that's so cool. I I love connecting some of those things all the way back. The stories, again, they weave their way through all of our conversations. So the the title you have, Chief Fire Igniter, makes sense in terms of what happens there. You know, your message though is about grace over grind. Now, yes, if I say grace to a leader, they might think soft. And chief fire igniter is a little bit different. Bringing those two things together for me, what is this chief fire igniter and how grace over grind really helps?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, so it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So the chief fire igniter actually goes back to probably about 13 years ago when it was actually from a Bible study, and the Lord was showing me all these various ways that fire was represented in the Bible to represent his power, his presence, his purity, like his love, his passion, his love. And he was actually showing me how my assignment and how I showed up as a mentor, as a teacher with the work I was doing with Kingdom-driven entrepreneur and as an activator was all around releasing that to others so that they could multiply that and their spheres of influence, right? So that's where Chief Fire Igniter came from.

What Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur Means

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Excellent. I understand it then a lot more, and I love the connection there as well. Use the term kingdom-driven entrepreneur. What's a kingdom-driven entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, so we kind of have to break down each word, right? So we're talking about kingdom. I'm talking about the kingdom of God, the, you know, the government of God, the realm of heaven. So that's what I'm talking about with the kingdom. Driven actually has two core definitions. One of them is motivated by, and the other one is propelled forward. And then we all know what an entrepreneur is. So when we say kingdom-driven entrepreneur, we're saying that your entrepreneurial endeavors are motivated by and propelled forward by the kingdom of God and advancing the kingdom of God in the marketplace. So that was part of my work that started in 2012. My husband's now the CEO. We have a great team, which released me to do some other things, and I still advise kingdom-driven entrepreneur, but that movement is at the core of my heart. That was really a huge transition for me out of leaving my corporate career into how God was leading me, how to show up as a business person and then how to serve others and help them to do the same.

From Compartmentalized Faith To Calling

SPEAKER_02 5:26

So cool. Goodness grace. So the kingdom-driven entrepreneur, motivated and propelled forward, inspired and encouraged to move forward, to impact. And now you've got to equip other leaders with regards to the work that you're doing as well through your podcast, through your books. So cool to hear that. And likely working with your husband as well as kingdom-driven entrepreneur. You touched on, again, back to the secular world of that large company that we work with together. Was there a moment, Shay, that you said, you know, it's time for well, two things. One is, were you able to share kind of that kingdom vision while you're at work? But secondly, they said, no, I'm I'm meant to do this somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Honestly, it was not even on my radar in my corporate days. It's very interesting. Even I grew up in church, so my faith journey is very long as long as I can remember. I lived at the time I was working my corporate career, I would say I was living a very compartmentalized life, kind of spiritually, with my work and all those things. It wasn't like I was avoiding, I was myself. But I didn't have like the depth of personal relationship with God at that time. It was very compartmentalized. I went to church faithfully. I operated in integrity, you know, all of those things. I was a very principled person. But that connection didn't happen for me in my corporate years, which was right out of college in those next um, I was there uh at IBM for almost 11 years. And so that wasn't part of my story. It was interesting, John, because it was an encounter with God that led me to even leave my corporate career. And I started growing in my own personal relationship with God in the context of my work, as he was showing me how he was gonna be taking me out of my corporate career. And I had a business on the side. So I've been an entrepreneur for a long time, just part-time while I was working in business, or while I was working my corporate career. But that was where it was like my journey from that perspective as it connects to work, which is what you were bringing up. That happened with intention in my last couple of my last 18 months, really, of my time at IBM. But I will tell you this, John, it's so funny. I was in Texas recently speaking at an event, and I was just kind of connecting with some people that I knew, you know, prior to my speaking thing. And one of the ladies that was there was someone I recruited while I was working at IBM many, many, many years ago. And she said to me, Shay, I just wanted to tell you that I knew you were a woman of great faith when I met you, when you were working. This was, I had no context for this, John. But she said the way I showed up and the way that I served her, she knew that, you know, Jesus was like Lord of my life. And I thought that was really interesting because I was like, I wasn't even making the connection. I was just being myself, you know.

Kingdom Metrics And Holistic Profitability

SPEAKER_02 8:04

So I think that's so cool. Part of that is, you know, just some of the things that I've been through the past few years of that compartmentalized life. And it was an encounter with a mentor who said, John, you talk about this all the time. You're a mentor to me with regards to your faith, but it's not showing up in your writing, it's not showing up in your business how you talk about it. And, you know, as I really was challenged at that point in time, and whether, you know, he was a vessel to have God talking to me to say, Hey, it's time to you stop compartmentalizing this. In our worlds, that Sunday life, while very important and to your point, is much of a development, is a very small piece of the hours that we're awake. And yet our business place is another place of ministry that exists. The term that I like to use sometimes with that is that we're it's a move from key performance indicators that are very important to business, and you've talked about it revenue, margin, quality, service over to kingdom performance indicators and those other things that involve. So when you're working with organizations right now and you talk about the kingdom, the kingdom-driven entrepreneur, what are some of those metrics you're talking about to them with regards to kingdom in their business?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I love that question. So, one of the core things is around holistic profitability. So we say profitability that's not only financial but also eternal. And so we'll break that down in terms of we want people to like seek God for themselves on what's good for them because we don't want it to be a performance thing where I feel like I have to have this new checklist of things I have to do in order to be faithful to God in business, right? But we say things like, how do you show up in the operations of your business? Are the operations of your business, the various areas, are they aligned with the ways of God? That's one aspect. What does generosity look like? How is that playing out with your business? How do you show up as a leader to the people who are in your company, to the people who are the customers? How does the kingdom impact your customer service? How does it impact strategy? All of those things, right? So we talk about that and the interaction, the personal interaction. Uh, we talk a lot about spiritual gifts as well. How do those actually get integrated and how are those played out in the work that you do, right? So it's a very so basically we're working with people to develop their own, we'll call them kingdom. Well, I'm gonna go with your language right now. There's kingdom performance indicators that support a holistic profitability focus for you in terms of how you show up in business. And then they then look at that and then see, are they growing in that? And the other thing is, um, I'll say this one too, because even when I talk about the operations, I don't just mean break down each part of your business and are those connected to the ways of God, but also how do you as a leader align with God in the day-to-day? Like I talk about partnering with God, not just doing business for God, but doing business with God, which is actually where the Grace Overgrind message came from. And so there's so many pieces, but we like people to really develop the picture for themselves because I just really believe that, you know, every individual and every individual in their organization is a unique expression of God.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Yeah, this I think that's so cool. There's there's verses in the Bible that have pierced me with regards to that. And I believe that it is, you know, the kind of the number one leadership book that's out there. The concepts that are in there are taught everywhere, whether they're called biblical or Christian principles or not. But first Peter 4, 8 through 10 is really clear. How do you show love for the people that you work with? How do you show hospitality to those individuals as well? And how are you utilizing the gifts you've been given to be successful? It's in the parables, wherever they are, it's all over that.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

It's all over that.

Why Grace Is Not Soft

SPEAKER_02 11:35

And it's not something that we have to, to your point, preach. I love hearing how somebody said, you showed up differently inside of that space as well. And that's that's in and of itself is a big measurement. It's while we are called to be disciples, not necessarily about all of a sudden announcing that we want salvations to be a measurement in our business. It's not what it is, as much as as much as in our hearts it should be. That's right. We love that, but it's not it's not going to be one of those things that is there. And so you've taught I love that holistic profitability as well in terms of that term that you've used. But so let's talk about grace over grind and how you got to that piece. First, the word grace is one thing. When leaders hear that, at least I make this up, okay? When leaders hear that we should use grace in our leadership, many of them interpret that, in my experience in coaching, as soft. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Tell me why grace is not soft and what does it mean to you?

The Unforced Rhythms Of Grace

SPEAKER_00 12:27

It really isn't. It's really divine enablement, it's empowering. It's not a soft thing. There's wisdom that comes in it. Yes, there's productive rest that comes with it. There's all types of goodness. You've got favor that comes with that. There's so much goodness in there. There's divine wisdom, just all of these things that are not soft in nature. They're just aligned and help you to thrive and to flourish. It's not a soft con, it's not a soft thing unless it needs to be in a moment, right? Sometimes, you know, because I don't even think soft is a bad word. There's sometimes where someone might say, like, I need you, you might need to do something and handle something differently than the way you might desire to react. But instead, through divine wisdom, you actually respond in an aligned way that might in your mind feel like it's soft, but it's not. It's exactly what's needed and necessary in that moment. And it's for the good of you and the good of those around you, right? So that's why I'm like, first of all, I don't think soft's a bad word, but it's not soft, it's aligned, right? And it's enabling and empowering.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Yeah, and you've got that. And so the the acronym that you use for grace as well in some of your advising and teaching ground, refine, align, cultivate, embody. Where did that come from? And how did you all that's so you know, great play on words, grace? It just happens to align up good.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

It's been such a wild journey. So this journey of Grace of a Grind for me started like probably 12, 13 years ago. So this it started with a scripture that's in Matthew chapter 11, verse 28 through 30. And this is a scripture when Jesus is saying, Come to me, all of those who are weary, I will give you rest. He talks about how his yoke is easy and his burden is light. I don't have it memorized. But I do have it memorized in the message Bible because that's the one that absolutely captured me. And it said, Are you tired, worn out, burnt out on religion? Come to me, get away with me, and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me, work with me, watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I'll never lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you will learn to live freely and lightly. So that was the thing that I heard, that I heard that with factor, it was like, walk with me, work with me, keep company with me. Unforced rhythms of grace. Jesus, you need to show me this. I need to know. That began the journey many years ago of learning how to walk that out. So as I was learning that, then I also became sharing that. Now I was talking to only believers because I was doing the work of kingdom-driven entrepreneur. So here I was operating in that for many, many years. And then fast forward, then the Lord starts talking to me about I want you to take the goodness of my grace and expand this message to people and organizations and make it accessible, the truth of this accessible to them without all of my, you know, all of my scripture references and all of those things. So that has actually been the journey of the last two years, is then saying, okay, Lord, from what we've been walking out, what you've taught me, what I've seen not only in my life, my business, but those that I've served, how do I now have language for this that can reach anybody and then let you do what you do? Right. And let this be just goodness because it's goodness. Grace is available for all. And so, how do I take this language and make it accessible? And so part of that was how do I also make this practical from a framework perspective, easy to remember, all of those things. And that's what led to all right, if I've been talking about all these gifts of grace, now how do I integrate this in a model that people can do an assessment for their grind versus the grace and their leadership? And how can we begin to walk this out? And it's been such a cool last couple of years being able to present it in some new ways.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Love that. So many degree. The assessment that you're talking about as well, and enabling. And this is me, it's the engineer in me that thinks about things in the form of matrices all the time, a two by two matrix. And I can I can see you know, grace on the x-axis and grind on the y-axis, because we need both in terms of inside of our business, and that you know, if we have all grace with no grind, we can tell what's gonna happen. That that's where it shows up as soft, I believe, at times. Is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

So when you read my book, I think you would I think you would actually say that differently after you read Grace Overgrind.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Okay. All right, I'm gonna look at it. So tell me why I'd say it differently though. Talk to me.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah, because I I don't believe that we actually need the grind because the grind is defined as excessive hard work. Oh, so as we've been diligent work, right? Diligence and diligent work. So yes, we absolutely have to work, but you have grace-enabled work, right? We don't have to do excessive hard work.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Diligent work versus excessive.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Excessive hard work, which is uh I mean even Mary Webster dictionary will give a definition for grind now. Like excessive.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

I think we probably align pretty well. The matrix that I've used is truth and grace. It's even giving feedback, where if we give feedback to individuals and with all grace and no truth, you know, it's just soft and it's just enabling. But if we use all truth and no grace, we just come across as a bully. And that's where it feels like excessive as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, it's it's really interesting. And when you explore like the various gifts and expressions of grace, you realize that there's nothing but goodness in there and it's not defined as in what some people would say in their mind as soft, right? There's just so much good um in there. I don't think that I think we because divine wisdom is such a core part of the expression of grace, I'm walking that out. I believe that we can walk things out in grace and not ever feel like this isn't this isn't alignment. Because it's all about being in alignment.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Thank you for that. Because I think you're you're spot on. I certainly in no way, shape, or form feel like there's there's a downgrading to that word grace. Goodness. I mean scripturally, it's one of the best gifts that we've been given.

unknown 18:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Oh, absolutely. It's all in there.

Anxiety Drops And Identity Untangles

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Absolutely. So you've impacted again in the literature, say you've impacted over a million people. This is gonna be an unfair question, probably. But what's the biggest common denominator you see in leaders who successfully move from this hustle or grind over to yielding or grace? What's what are they what are they doing well?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, um, so I get to experience that best with those that I've either mentored directly or advised directly. And some of the themes that I see are one of those is absolutely in people getting to a place where they're they're not in financial anxiety all the time. Like just the level of anxiety goes down dramatically. So they're not as impacted by every little thing, and then dealing with anxiety around things that instead of reacting, they're having to be like to calm themselves, to get wisdom, to respond to things, right? Things happening around them, being able to operate in trust. I don't know all the details, but I know just enough to trust to walk out this next step without all the anxiety and all and hanging on that, right? So I see that as an absolute thread across most, because a lot of business owners operate with a lot of anxiety and we don't have to, right? And so that's one I see as a core. I also see another thread with a lot of people who are beginning to untangle themselves from their identity being all about their work. So that is something that absolutely happens because there's a lot of business owners who absolutely get entangled in that kind of way, where it's like, yes, I get to ex, I get to express myself through my work, but I am not my work. I am not the, I'm not, it's like my worth is not connected to what's happening here, all of those things. So I see a lot of entangling, which leads to a lot of other really great things in people's lives and businesses once you untangle that identity, you know, mixed in there. So I've seen a lot of that. They don't come to me for that. That just happens in the goodness of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

A lot of people don't necessarily say those things out loud and say, this is an area I want help with, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

But yet it becomes part of the gift and the process, you know? But I think that these levels of anxiety and the level of wisdom that people are walking out completely shifts. And the thing is, is that sometimes the beauty about divine wisdom is that, you know, we have the wisdom that we get from our experiences, wisdom that we have borrowed from others, which is awesome. We love it. And when you add divine wisdom to that, that has you making some decisions that maybe on paper, that's not the decision you would have made. And yet, because of divine wisdom and you're trusting and walking that out, then you're seeing some really cool things on the other side of that. I've got stories for a long time for that. I've interviewed. All right, give me one. Give me one of them.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

I want to hear one of them. I want to hear your most favorite one.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so one of one of my uh one of my favorites is a client. She actually has multiple businesses. Her background is in interior design, John. Okay, she's interior design, but right now she has a genetics lab, a health tech company, and now, more recently, her, she has a new company that is actually working on early cancer detection from urine analysis. She has an interior design background. I don't know if you heard that part, but her adventure with God in the midst of how he was opening doors and how she was with courage walking in new areas that one would think you have no business being anywhere near this. She would just take step after step after step that led to the work she does now. And they actually now embrace Grace Overgrind as part of theme in their company. So they will actually, they'll have it written on the whiteboard. And when they have some meetings, like, I don't know how the frequency of these meetings that they're doing, but they'll talk about like what's something that happened that we can celebrate that was beyond us. Like this happened because of this particular thing or whatever. Like, what's like something we can celebrate that's like, I didn't know this was gonna happen. I didn't, I had no idea this was gonna happen. I hope that this was gonna happen. What does that look like? So I love that just who she is and her courage to walk this out has absolutely placed her in places that no one would expect her to, including herself. And that now she even gets to express that to the people that work with her, you know, and and how they're actually kind of growing in that as well, which I think is super fun.

Rest Practices And Calendar Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Are you tired of being tired? I know I was. That's when I was glad to find own it coaching. Now my resting heart rate's down 20%, sleep quality up 300%. You know, I just ran my first Spartan rage at age 56. I feel better than I ever have. So if you're ready to stop settling and start owning your own health, go to coachjohngallagher.com forward slash own it and set up a free call with the own it coaching team. That's coachjohngallagher.com forward slash own it. Now, let's get back to the episode. The uh I love the stories that come along with that and the impact that we can have with regards to those things. I am curious, the other the other piece of that, and you haven't said this word exactly, but the grind word uh would be kind of the opposite of rest. And you talk a lot about rest as well and being able to uh get a return on the investment of rest. Tell me tell me a little bit about that discipline for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah. So for me, it shows up in a lot of different ways. One of those things is kind of as a core discipline of rest, is that I don't do back to back to back to back to back meetings. I very specifically leave, these are super practical things. I'll leave 10-minute gaps. I will have a meeting that ends at 10, you know, if I have advisory calls, they end in 15 minutes, not an hour, because then I always know that I'm gonna have my 10 minutes to just be able to breathe, relax, do what I need to do, think, might even pray, depending on what's happening next, all of those things, right? So I very intentionally create my schedule in a way that allows me to have those spaces. And those spaces allow me to think, to be quiet, to hear, right? And so sometimes just to practically rest, you know, whatever that is, right? But it allows me to kind of have a culture of rest in what I do. So that's one super practical thing. I love to have business meetings with God. You know, I love to, so I'm seeking God around strategy. I seek God around all types of things that, you know, I there's people that I'm praying for, connected to business, all of these things. In Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur, we teach how to have powerful business meetings with God, right? So, because I'm all about that partnership with God. That's part of rest, because part of rest is not also physical, but also that active awareness of God's presence with you, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

So, Shay, one of the things that you talk about as well is rest is very important and rest overgrind in terms of what goes on there. What are some of the disciplines that you employ to ensure that you get a good return on your investment and make sure that you rest?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah, that's really good. So, a lot of different ways. One super practical thing that I do is I don't fill my calendar with back to back to back to back to back activity. I very intentionally leave, for example, with meetings. I'll leave a 10-minute gap, sometimes a 15-minute gap between meetings so that I don't have to be rushing from one place to the other. A lot of times there's things that I need to actually kind of process from what I just walked out in the last meeting, think about that. Sometimes it's praying before I'm going into the next thing. Sometimes it's just a moment to just physically just relax. You know, so I definitely don't fill my calendar back to back. And so I mean that at a micro level in terms of day schedule, but I'm also like that in terms of being intentional around taking particular chunks of time away from work. Just the whole idea that I have to constantly be on, I don't subscribe to that at all, right? Because I need to be able to disconnect from all of the engagement in order to receive, right? And so that part's been super important for me. One of the other things that's just a part of my work life is what I call business meetings with God. And it's something actually I mentor and teach others in as well. Because, you know, going back to the idea when we were talking about with kingdom-driven entrepreneur, I'm all about with God, not just for God. So I actually want to seek God around things concerning business. Uh, concerning life, of course, as well, but absolutely concerning business. And so that's something that I specifically take time to do. And when I think about rest, John, I'm not thinking just about rest from a physical perspective. I'm also thinking about rest from just an active awareness of the presence of God with me, the active awareness of the presence of divine wisdom that I can seek with me at all times, as opposed to I gotta do all the things in my own strength and then take a little break, go again with God, take a break later, right? So I kind of look at it holistically.

Business Meetings With God Framework

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Love that. Love to look at that. The business meeting with God. Yeah. What's the agenda for that meeting?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, okay. So the agenda, because you're gonna everyone's always like, I never give blueprints, I give frameworks, but not blueprints, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Because everyone has their own unique thing with Sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Fair enough. What's your agenda with God?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, so for me, it it does change, but oftentimes it looks like there's certain things that I have that I want to pray about concerning people that are that are either their clients or their situations or team members, et cetera. There's prayer, there's a lot of listening. So there will be questions that I have that I'm pondering on, that I have been pondering on, and I'm gonna pray and submit those to God. He says, if any man lacks wisdom, ask God who gives us to it generously, right? So there's things that I have that are just questions, but I don't just talk. I also, I'm also quiet to hear. And so there's a lot. So I like to journal things that are coming. The idea of hearing from God and discerning God's voice is it has been a thing that was cultivated over many years of growing in relationship with God. So I'm sitting, I'm hearing, I'm writing, I'm just thinking through certain things. There's absolutely uh prayer for me. And sometimes, depending on how everything's going, sometimes I'll get like a scripture reference that'll come to me or a thought. So then I have to go look up and see where it is, and then I end up in a whole like few-minute Bible study around things and I'm asking the Holy Spirit, okay, help me connect these pieces, right? So it's a very kind of organic time, and that's in the set-aside time. But I tell you what, John, I don't just have set aside times, it's also one of those things that it's like going back to that rest concept of God with me. I can do a business meeting with God at any time. It doesn't have to be the set aside time in the morning. It could be in that two minutes before I go into the meeting. It can be while I'm actually talking to you. I believe in talking to you and also listening at the same time, right? So, you know, so that's just kind of become part of the lifestyle. But I know people love frameworks, so I absolutely actually even teach frameworks, a parade framework on how to have powerful business meetings with God.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Okay. All right. I mean, I love frameworks as well all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yes, I I love them. I love them.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Including kind of I I often refer to it, you touched on the 10 minutes. I say it's the 47 most powerful minutes in a leader's day. Yeah. Is that the, you know, you schedule a 60-minute meeting, but you only work for 47. Yeah. Yeah. That can be the most because I one of the very first things I do when I start to work with a leader is that show me your calendar. And to your point, back to back to back, like nobody can do that. I mean, it's impossible to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

It's funny, I mean, it's probably uh just upbringing or anything else, but I'm like, heaven forbid, you can go to the restroom between meetings so that you can prepare yourself, let alone pray or prepare, or just you know, sit down and take a breath in between those meetings that you have. But I often encourage those meetings to end on the on the 10. They're like, well, it's so difficult to set it up in outlook. I'm like, give me a break.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

No, it's not, right? It's not difficult.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

It's like two extra clicks.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Right. I'm with you, John.

Writing For Leaders Beyond Faith Labels

SPEAKER_02 30:03

All right, let's go back to the book. I have a couple questions specific, not necessarily to the content of the book, but the constant look, you've the the last two books in terms of having the the grace over grind and and grace with purpose in terms of the two most recent books, but you've got your wisdom in many books over the years. Specifically when you're writing, who are you writing to? And like what what do you end up writing for as well?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, that's a great question. So for many years, because I was founder and also CEO of Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur, I was writing specifically to the Christ following entrepreneur who wants to, you know, who really desires to grow in holistic profitability, right? They want to have eternal impact and financial, you know, returns, all the things. So I wrote all almost all of my books are written to that entrepreneur, small business owner, et cetera, you know, who's a Christ follower. The last book that I wrote, which is Grace Under Pressure, that's the first book that I wrote that takes a lot of the principles from Grace Over Grind and presents it in a story. Now there's a little nonfiction section in the back that breaks down aspects of the story so that you can kind of pull it all together. But that's the first time that I've done a book that is a that it's that's not actually faith-centered overtly at all. And so, and that gives me the opportunity to share this message with a broader audience and allow that to be a seed for growth because it's all around being able to create not only a personal leadership culture, but also a culture in your organization where both people and results can flourish, right? Not results without the people f flourishing and out of people flourishing, but no results, right? But how do we create that leadership culture? So this last book that I wrote is the most broadest audience that I've written for, which is really leaders of teams. They might be corporate. I have a heart for business for business owners, so I tend to talk to business owners a lot, but business owners, leaders, I've had corporate execs that read it, you know. So it's been it's been broadly a leadership message in the Grace Under Pressure book.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Of that, Grace Under Pressure. Now I love story book if you will, the fable that's written. I mean, there are many authors that do it very well. Patrick Lancioni. Oh, he's great. Yeah. Just so many good ones that exist in that space. Have there been writers that have influenced you uh on your journey?

SPEAKER_00 32:28

The I'm gonna tell you the inspiration for that book in terms of writing it in that way. Bob Berg, who wrote The Go Giver with John David Mann, the two of them together. I read The Go Giver when I was at IBM still. And it was really impactful for me. I've actually, I've actually met Bob, love Bob, and I knew at that time I wasn't, I I was still at IBM, but I remember saying to myself when I read it, one day I'm gonna write a book and deliver a message in a in an impactful way like this. I remember just, and I had no idea, I wasn't anywhere near the work that I'm doing now at that time. So that wasn't, that was a seed sown many, many years ago. And I remember when I was beginning to think about maybe five years ago, this book was Grace Under Pressure was like a year ago now, but like five years ago, I was starting to think, I think I am gonna write a book like this. I reached out to John and was like, please give me advice on writing a compelling story because I knew he was behind that story aspect of it. And so John, David Mann, and Bob were absolutely my inspiration for writing a story that really engages people. And then in it, they grab hold of uh a uh a message within it.

Walk Up Song And Final Takeaway

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Love that. I want to ask you something. Are you a baseball fan at all?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

No, I played softball as a kid, but I'm not a baseball fan.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Okay. So um, you know, the baseball players in today's world, with this college, sports, even softball, they have a walk-up song. You're a speaker, you're a writer. What when you walk up on stage, what's your walk-up song that introduces shape minds?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

And do you mean that literally when I speak? Because rarely do I have someone who asked me about, ask me to do it. I've only done it once.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Another similar one might be to say, what's your karaoke song? Like what would you see? What would what would define you the most in terms of what was there?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Well, it was so it was so funny that you asked that question because the one time that I actually had someone ask me what song I I wanted to have playing when I came on, the song was was was called Light Hem Up. Light Them Up. Yes, and there's a really great beat behind it. There's a really great beat behind it, too. So it kind of went with the Chief Fire Igniter theme, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Okay. Yeah, it makes it actually absolutely makes Chief Fire Igniter work really well.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yes, that's it. Yeah, you know, I'm an activator. I want I want the stories that I share to really spark a seed of curiosity for people and activate them to take a next step.

Where To Find Shay And Closing

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Shay, I'm watching our time. And uh by the time we get this on, folks won't notice that in the middle of our conversation the power went out and cut us off, but we'll fix it so it doesn't come through that way. But I still want to honor your time and your story about anything's in 10 minutes. I have enjoyed this conversation tremendously, and I and I hope almost that we get to do something like this again. Um, how can folks get in touch with you and learn more about you so that so that they can see what's going on, your books, your advisory services, kingdom-driven entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to SheaBinds.com, that will connect you with all the things. You'll actually see when you go to shabinds.com, those who are interested in that Grace Effect kind of framework that we alluded to earlier, there's an article right there on the homepage you can link to, and there's an assessment there if you want to take that. But if you go to shabinds.com, you'll find the world of all things I'm involved in. If you're active on LinkedIn, you can certainly connect with me there. I I would just ask that when you hit the connect button to connect, let me know that you were listening to the Uncommon Leader podcast. I'd love to know that when you reach out.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

That would be great. I think that is. And I'm, yeah, there's cold connections are always tough to get to. So you can have a message that you heard. Absolutely. I've enjoyed this. Well, we've come to the end of our conversation today, but I'm gonna give you the last word as I do all my first-time guests. I'm gonna give you a billboard, Shay. You can put any message you want to on that billboard and put it anywhere you want to. What's the message going to be on that billboard and why do you put that there?

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Well, because Grace of Ragrind has become a life message for me. I'm going to say the billboard will say Grace will take you where grinding never will.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

So good. So good. Shay, this has been a pleasure. I really have enjoyed it. Thank you for adding value to the listeners of the Uncommon Leader podcast. I wish you the best, all of all the best wishes going forward.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Thank you so much. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

That was an energizing conversation. I really enjoyed that with Shay Binds. I hope you did as well. Some of the things that she talked about with regards to great overgrind and how ultimately, you know, we don't have to grind or hustle on a regular basis and the importance of rest in our business to be successful. I love some of the concepts that you talked about. I hope you'll go out and follow Shay on LinkedIn and go to our website and see about all the good things she has going on. Hey, if you heard this message and someone else that you know needs to hear this message, please do me a favor. Why don't you share it and let them know about it so we can get in the hands of more leaders? And I'd really love it if you could go out and leave a five star review on one of the platforms that you listen, whether that's on Spotify or on Amazon Music or on Apple Podcasts. That's how we move this podcast up into more listeners' hands. And I would appreciate it if you could share it. Until next time, go and grow champions.