Episode 225 - Your Family’s Strategic Plan: Seeing the Good in Others Changes Everything | Tom Carmazzi

What if your leadership skills were the key to changing your family's trajectory for the next 250 years?

Most leaders can run a tight meeting at work, but put us in a room with the people we love most, and suddenly we feel the pressure to be perfect. That tension is exactly why we wanted to talk about the “family meeting” concept as a real family retreat, not a quick check-in at the dinner table. Tom Carmazzi joins me to unpack how a face-to-face retreat can help you build a family vision statement, define family values, and create a generational legacy that carries forward who you are, not just what you own.

We get personal about mortality and the moments that wake us up, then we name the trap we all fall into: returning to busyness within minutes. We talk about fear as the enemy of intentional family leadership, how faith reframes the work (Romans 12:2), and why inspiration can be a choice, not just a reaction to crisis. If you have ever wondered who will be “next up” to carry the heart of your family forward, this conversation puts language and structure around that question.

We also get tactical. We share a simple two-day format, why “no technology” is a non-negotiable, and how tools like three-by-five cards and non-leading questions help everyone participate without turning it into a debate. We cover how to create values from your family’s own words, why they should evolve over time, and when bringing in an outside facilitator is the right call so you can stay present. We even contrast estate planning and inheritance with the deeper legacy most families actually want.

If someone in your life needs to hear this message, share it with them, then subscribe and leave a review so more leaders build families with the same purpose they build businesses. What would you put in your family’s vision for the next 10 generations?

𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 Tom Carmazzi👇
➡️ LinkedIn (primary): https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomcarmazzi/
➡️ Website: http://www.waketheworld.com/

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Transcript

Fear, Faith, And Love

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So much fearful, you know, because fear holds that, you know, and fear is the enemy. The enemy does and you know, we have a couple family members that I would say are not deep in their faith. And yes, let me just read you one of the definitions about love. So one of our facts is what provide unconditional grace, attached, and gratitude for others and ourselves no matter what. God is great. I think so. Even though you don't take old church on a regular basis, I agree with the Bible. And so to me, even if I and I pray before it, and we ask the Holy Spirit to commit it to you here.

Why A Family Meeting Matters

SPEAKER_00 1:07

We've talked about leadership in the past. We've talked about growing your business. And most recently, on the episode, which doesn't seem possible two years ago, we talked about Tom's book with his daughter, Christine, uh, back on episode 122. So here we are, somewhere in the neighborhood of episode 230. Ultimately, to talk about what's going to come across, I think is a pretty deep topic, but a very important topic as we go through this. We're going to dive into the term family meeting and what that means. Ultimately, you know, as business leaders that many of you listen in, or those who uh are in the workplace, in the marketplace, companies spend hundreds, thousands of hours developing their vision, developing their mission and values, strategic plans. And yet, as individual leaders with our families, which is really where we want to have the most impact if we dive into it, we don't spend the time doing that as a family. So this family meeting is not about really the dinner table and asking how your day went. This family meeting concept that we're talking about is a retreat ultimately, uh, that as families, what's the impact we want to leave as a legacy? So I'm excited about the conversation today. Tom and I have been prepping. I know you're going to enjoy it. So, Tom Karmazzi, welcome back for the fourth time. Just so you know, the fifth time gets you the robe, gets you the smoking jacket. Uh, so you're gonna have to come on back. But uh, how are you doing today, friend?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Oh, yeah, you said that after the third time. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, this works.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

So it's great to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, I'm I'm glad you're here. I know this is gonna be a great conversation today. You know, typical, we kind of do these questions, fire them off one at a time, but I think it's gonna be a great conversation going back and forth with some of the experiences that we have and some of the things that we've been putting together over the past couple years ultimately on our journey as men of God and and as brothers to uh to impact for the kingdom. The topic again back is to this uh family meeting concept. And we think about the reason for action of this or you know why this is such an important topic. Uh you

Mortality And The First Two Rows

SPEAKER_00 3:05

and I in our preparations, we talked about uh mortality really, not just for us, but what was happening in the lives of our friends and family. You had a fr you had a friend who died suddenly at the age of 69, which as we continue to age, we see how much how young that is. Uh in the past year, uh just over a year. I've lost both my father and my father-in-law in the last year. So we see that mortality that exists today. And I, you know, I wonder, as you think about that, how has that even deepened or strengthened kind of your uh resolve to make a difference inside the kingdom to make a difference for Legging? Not it, not even in the family impact side, but just you know, your feeling about making a difference.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Well, well, you know, John, those are those are always very touching moments. And for me, you know, I don't know how many times I've been to those kinds of situations, those kinds of services. And what I always say to myself is, you know, gosh, life is so short. You know, capture the moment. Capture the moment. I was I'd like to say within 24 hours, but it's probably 24 minutes. You know, I'm back to what I was thinking before. And it's completely left left me. But I would say as a result of the family meetings, I I see these differently. And and it's not from a judgment as they should be, they're not. It's not that. It's it's more of a yes and in that what I love in those celebrations of life or funeral services, whatever you want to call them, is the heart. You see so many hearts there, and most of them are grieving, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, you know, and so it's really easy for tears to flow. And usually there's a lot of colleagues which will speak or say something. You don't see so much of uh family members, you don't see so much of next up, you know. In business, you plan for next up, you know. CEO leaves, retires up next up, next up. And and these two specific wonderful people touched countless lives. And the and was and who's the obvious next up? What's that obvious being carried forward that I didn't see? And it was more they this this individual, these individuals had tremendous personal power, you know, just wonderful folks. And how how was that who they were, who they are, going to be carried forward? Not the assets, you know, that kind of stuff. I think a lot of families do a really nice job of that. The opportunity is that carry forward of that that family vision, the family values, who that person really was, and how that disseminated through and who's carrying that forward, not to just the next generation, but generation after generation after generation. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

There's a couple you know things that came to my mind. Those I thought about the first two rows. You know, who who's in those first two rows as you sit there. And generally, if you can see those individuals you want sitting in those first two rows, that's really what this family meeting is all about because it's probably has nothing to do with the business side of what we did as a leader uh or our secular work that was there. It's really about that legacy impact that we leave. We we have we heard a gentleman speak before in one of the conferences we attended who said the legacy you leave is more valuable than the assets you leave. And you know, again, I think as we uh continue to look at the impact that we want to have, that statement gets that much more powerful. You mentioned it generation after generation. Building wealth is very important. That's almost like the price of admission to have that estate plan to take care of your family, and we'll talk about that a little bit as we go through this conversation. But you know, the the power is in the generational mindset of those things that you uh leave behind, those stories that you leave behind with those individuals in the first two rows are uh gonna be told. So you might as well try and generate those stories now with them. And the family meeting is one of the ways that we do that. But I you know, I wonder, like again, you have the other thing you said was that you know within 24 hours, I'm back to my you know daily eating, drinking planning. We used to call it EDP in terms of what's happening, or within 24 minutes, whatever that means. And

Desperation Versus Inspiration To Change

SPEAKER_00 7:21

why? That's probably not a fair question. What do you believe it is in leaders that causes that? That that really is, that causes us to step back way too quick before we get going again. Because that's another one of these reasons. Craig Rochelle says we change out of inspiration or out of desperation, and we we generally have to run back to our jobs and get something done. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Well, you know, just going back to change from inspiration or desperation, I'd love to break that down into percentages. My makeup is that it's a much higher percentage of desperation. Much higher. I don't think it's 50-50 split. I don't think it's 80-20 inspiration. I you know, I just, of course, I can no, it's something was going on that I realized I had to change. I mean, previous times that we've met and talked, it it's I mean, as you know, I saw figures, I didn't see faces. And so I was always about the numbers. And I just I it just became clearer and clearer and clearer, and one thing after another that said, I have to change. I am a manager, I'm not a leader. And I didn't have a choice. So it was desperation. It wasn't inspiration. I saw these great leaders and said I wanted to be like them because I thought I was successful. So it's the same thing here, and that with these family meetings, you know, first off, for me, I I'm working 60, 70 hours a week. I'm also given my best hours. It's not like I'm given those hours from midnight to 7 a.m. No, those are my best hours. And so then the time that's left after sleep, there's not a whole lot there. And so, I mean, I walk out of that heartfelt situation and my mind starts going back to kind of the eating, drinking, planning, counting, going back to the task, going back to getting things done, and the heart takes a back seat. And that's for me, when I think of inspiration, that's all about the heart. I don't intellectually go to inspiration, I just don't. And so I think about why they do that, why I do that is that my gosh, I mean, I got a lot of stuff, even though I'm retired, I got a lot of stuff that I'm working on, and it's not tennis and golf.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yep. Sometimes I wish it were, but you know, and even where we've been on our growth journey the past few years, um, you know, we're we're seeing in scripture uh in our faith development as well the importance of this too. As to legacy, we've got the perfect model inside the Bible in terms of legacy and how you know generations are impact. But and one of the one of the foundational pieces of scripture that um you know you and I have discussed as part of this process is Romans 12, too, is do not conform to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so it's it is that that inspiration is a choice. I mean, let's look, we're not trying to paint doom and gloom. That's the that's the challenge with this topic is it's doom and gloom when it really should be hope and you know happiness in terms of when you're discussing it. But that desperation mode, look, one of two things happens. You it's a sentinel event, it's a heart attack that takes someone immediately, and you haven't done any of that planning that goes on legacy. But the second piece and what really as you said, in that high percentage is uh a medical diagnosis that leads you to say you know your mortality was just formalized in a form of I've got 12 months to live, and so I need to make these things very important again. Where the inspirational side is, no, we're gonna do this so that if that occurs, we're prepared for it. That was another one of the quotes that uh the gentleman at the conference that we spoke with, his name is Price Hightower. He said, you know, this is a preparation for death. And we prepare for a lot of things, but for some reason we don't find the inspiration to prepare for our death so that it continues on to your point for generations to come. So when we as leaders, back to the eating, drinking, planning part of it, hear this term family retreat, right?

Why Family Retreats Feel Scary

SPEAKER_00 11:10

We immediately go somewhere in our minds, right? And what are some of the barriers that pop up immediately when we think about the the family retreat or the family meeting? What are some of the barriers that popped up in your mind and doing it well?

SPEAKER_02 11:21

So first, given my background, I've had a lot of opportunities to facilitate meetings. A lot, a lot, a lot. Probably triple triple digits meetings from an hour to four days. And I felt some anxiety, but for the most part, I was very, very comfortable doing it. I I mean, it just actually I got to really like it. Family scared the living daylights out of me. I mean, I was nervous, I was afraid. I kept thinking of all kinds of excuses to push it out, make sure I was really ready, everything was gonna be perfect, had all my questions, had all my supplies, as I go on. And it was for me that this was it's gonna sound corny, but this was real. I mean, these were people that I loved. And it was it's it's just crazy. I it's like I wanted to be that perfect dad. At the same time, I wanted to be a perfect facilitator, at the same time, I wanted to be a friend, at the same time, I wanted to be open, I wanted to be authentic, and yet I wanted to be firm. It's like and you can imagine it it's just a sticky chocolate mess. So, so it there was this part of perfectionism, part of who was in the room. I felt the stakes were much higher. Also, my relationship with the people in the room was not the same. Some were a little bit more tenuous or challenging than than others. And so there were all of those things of what could go wrong versus what could go right. And so that was the the primary difference for me. And the surprise was given the background that I had, it's like this is a no-brainer until I really started slowing down and thinking just that who's the audience? And this is the first time that I was gonna do something like this with this type of an audience. And I was I was I was scared.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, us learning about the topic when we did, our our children at the time were a little bit older than uh maybe is the ideal time to get started. Maybe they're all they're still in the house, would be the ideal time to get started so that you have them contained, if you will. But now they're out and about, and like, man, it's gonna be hard to get everybody together. You know, they live so far away. And you know, what are they gonna think when I say I want to have a family meeting? What's gonna come to their minds, you know, about me or whatever that is? And I that's you know, that's one of the things that ran into me as like the kids like that, really? You want to have a two-day meeting with the family? What are we gonna talk about that whole time? And so, you know, I had to be okay with that framework to get started, is knowing that that's probably what the what the first step is going to be, is there's gonna be some pushback uh to make that happen. I was grateful that when we did do our first family meeting, it was it was there a little bit, but it didn't um didn't come across as strong as I thought it might in terms of that's that's me making things up to be worse than they probably are gonna be anyway. That's part of my makeup and some of my thinking as well. And so we're for you and I we're both we're facilitators. That's how we were brought up in the in the world of manufacturing and the world of leadership is we were taught to facilitate activities. How did you have to be different in facilitating an activity like that versus

Facilitating Family Without Taking It Personal

SPEAKER_00 14:27

uh facilitating a rapid improvement event or a Kaisen event with 12 members of a team and a foundry kind of thing?

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Not take it personal. You know, it's like when you're when you're at work, you don't have the history. I mean, in some regards, you could say, My gosh, I've been working here for 15 years, but it's a different type of history, you know. And so when things happened in those family meetings for me, I would read so much more into it. Well, this, yeah, this is from seven years ago when we were on a ski trip, and yeah, and so for me, it it was a lot of being curious, let it sit, do not take it personal, do not react, do not pass judgment. And so a lot of this is three by five cards. Okay, and that, and that these meetings you want to get, I want to get the family commenting, I want to get their ideas, and so I do a lot, a lot of question asking, and everyone replies on a three by five card. And so some of the information on the three by five cards are a little bit of an outlier, like, what? But there it's just no way I can do that. There's no way I can show body language that cross my arms, look around, like can't do that. Oh you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Look at your watch and say, Come on, we gotta stay on task here, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I mean that's a weird train. You know, like uh and so if he had another card, what might that one say? You know, you can't you can't do that. And that was that was really challenging given who was in the room. So so that would be that would be what was really calling forth for me, is to be able to not take it personal, focus on the larger objective, and that is those family vision, values, legacy. And that's not about me per se. It's about us as a family.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

So yeah, I love the concept. Again, the the three by fives, the sticky notes. Uh that's kind of how we're wired and it's ingrained in us, trying to learn something new. And yes, being prepared for the looks like really you want me to write this on a three by five car? Can't I just blurt it out or whatever it is and make it happen? So there is some structure to it. And you mentioned that. Even the output of these, it's not a one-time event, first of all, it's a it's a regular review. We can talk about that a little bit too. But the output is a family vision statement, family heritage statement, we've heard it called before as well. Might be some core values that as a family you're living by, which can be pretty powerful, the behaviors that are associated with those values. In our case, we put a scripture into each one of those core values and and identified you know what that really meant to us. But before you get the output, you got to go through this. Let's let's be tactical

Simple Tools That Open Hearts

SPEAKER_00 17:05

for a second. When folks think about this family meeting, what might the structure of one of these family meetings look like? Can they be done in on a Zoom call or we know what's what's the structure of one of those? How did it flow for you?

SPEAKER_02 17:16

John, if I could back up just a little bit. And that is so one of the things that I did is I talked to Deb, my spouse, my wife, and and talked to her about doing this. I needed an advocate. I needed an ally. It couldn't just be me and you know the rest of the family on the other side of the table, kind of a thing. So so Deb, she realizes, you know, what I did at at work and this is something that I've done before. And she kind of said, you know, well, you know, this is this is what you do. And so I'm gonna trust in that and I'll be supportive. And it really was, I love the support, and I didn't want to surprise her. You know, so for me, I you know, Maxwell used to always talk about the meeting before the meeting, you know. So I had to make sure that my spouse was on board. And then I also just kind of drop little questions like, you know, so what do you guys think about the family meeting in terms of you know, a vision or values of the family, you know? And just like you're saying, John, I'd kind of get the well, yeah, okay, you know, but it wasn't uh we already have that. There was there was none of that kind of tone or pushback. And so so that was it. Now uh so structurally, I I had over two days, two four-hour meetings. This was the first one. And we started out just sharing the family history, just went around the room, and you would you would think uh with your kiddos, right? I know their history. I mean, I've believed it from birth, and it was rich. I mean, the stuff that they saw, they took in, they did, I had no clue about their emotions in those moments. It was wonderful. It was wonderful. So, so there was a real a real tenderness that started out with that. And again, even that, there's a way that that I asked that we do it, and it was listen. Please don't interrupt while someone's sharing. Don't say, Yeah, but wasn't that when please don't do that? Just listen and listen when they're finished. Then we can ask any clarifying non-leading questions. And to your point, John, there I had a macro four-hour block in a given day, and yes, I did put times on stuff like this, but I let it flow. And for the most part, those times were honored. And so there's some there's some foundational things you have to do, or I felt we we had to do uh there's also things like with the three by five cards, you know, write three cards, one word per card that would describe your life the last six months, and they would fill them out and put them up there, and then so you got on this big easel page all these cards, and you just basically so you know, Tom, tell me about busyness. And and away it goes. And so just these little icebreakers, right? You know, it's kind of like in business, they were like a requirement, and it was in essence to start the meeting. Here it felt like to start the heart, to start the heart, to start the vulnerability, to really get us in a place that felt like a family. Another one that won't surprise you, I know, or anyone else,

A Two Day Meeting Structure

SPEAKER_02 20:38

is no technology, zero. Can't not, cannot be in the room. Cannot. I don't hear it buzzing, you know. And I mean, so these family meetings, they're not on Zoom. They have to be face to face. They have to be face to face. Just Saturday night, Dem and I were out to dinner, and there's a family sitting right next to us, and oh my gosh, you know, it just it was a sweet moment. You had, you know, father, mother, and three kids, five devices, five devices. And the mother was playing games. It's like, holy schmole. So anyway, so there is a there is a structure, uh, but it's really to get a family to a place

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SPEAKER_02 21:20

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SPEAKER_00 21:20

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Designing A Ten Generation Vision

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah, that's and that's even as you listen through, like that's the uncommon component. Back to that verse, you know, do not conform to the the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Romans 12, 2, is that you know the the the conformance is well, you know, I I've always got my phone with me. I just need to have it with me. The conformance is just let me blurt it out. I mean, it's easier to do that than it is to write it on a card. And the the transformation ultimately required us to requires us to do hard stuff. That's why, again, that in person, as hard as that is, especially the size of your family, is so important. So you want it to be at a nice place as well, so that you can enjoy a nice dinner while you're there, do a cookout, have some fun, almost like a vacation, but there's a focused time. For me, that really worked well in our first meeting. It was actually at our home, we brought our kids in, but it was a focused time that we're going to, in essence, step away from the everyday stuff, recognizing that we had a little gift at the end, it was going to be a nice dinner as we finished it out. So I think that's that's important as well as the environment. Look, again, these these are some of the things I just kind of rolled off, and you had notes beforehand. The vision, mission, values for a business is very common. The output of this activity to have vision, mission, and values for generations to come as a family is very uncommon. And you know, just imagining what would be possible if we had that and it impacted generations to come, not just the next generation with regards to a financial plan, which is normally happening, but you know, three generations or four generations. One of the things I I talked about in our preparation was generally, if we're lucky, God willing, we get to see kind of great grandchildren at some point in time in our lives here on earth. And that's usually best case where the legacy kind of ends is in that third generation. But imagine if it could travel through four generations by impacting those people. And so I just I think it's so um, you know, the the with the vision. I don't know if that fruit's gonna come to bear or not, uh, four or five. We've actually written 10 generations into our vision statement, but you know, we're gonna start that process and just getting that started. Will it go on for two, three, ten generations? I don't know, but I'm not gonna wait around and uh find out if it's just gonna go to one. We're gonna make that happen. And it's hard. Again, we have to be different.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

So, John, for for you, you know, when you talk about 10 generations, you're there with your family, you no doubt ask them, and so what do we see at 10 generations? What do we see at five? What were some of the comments when you put, you know, 10 generations? What do they do?

SPEAKER_00 24:34

What I was grateful for is that we prepped you that that meeting before the meeting, that's so important. Like almost the first step to one of these is having your spouse with you and say, we're gonna do this, that commitment, you know, that decision by both of you. And again, when it's done out of inspiration, it can be so much more powerful. We drafted a draft vision statement, Chris and I did. And when we read that out to our to our sons at the meeting, they're like, that's pretty cool. And and it was actually Joseph who said, What if it didn't say just generations, Dad? What if it said 10 generations to come and that it changed the trajectory of lives for 10 generations? I'm like, slam dunk, listen, absolutely. So he I was so grateful that he dove in and added to that. And that's a great point. Like that that trajectory of lives is what we talked about. People who are, you know, tended to be negative, that they became positive and they moved in another jet direction. Or those that were kind of going okay, common they're going a little bit, would actually go exponential on that curve. That trajectory went exponential and they became leaders like they never thought they could be. That was the other picture of it was the trajectory we drew. We drew an arrow that was down that went to the up as the vision, that it changed that, and then an up arrow that actually got steeper with regards to how both of those things are. So it was going to impact both of those types of individuals and families, which I just thought and had nothing to do with financial or anything like that. Uh, it ultimately came down, then leading us to the core values of what that really meant to live out that vision. Just really good. It was really good. Yeah. Again, I could have made up all the bad stuff going in and it was really good as the output. But I think that direction was the thing that was really cool.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Yeah, yeah. And you think ten generations. Yeah. Love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

And that's our I mean, you think if you think about how our our country is at 250 years, we're coming up on 250 years. That's about ten generations. So that's going that's going pretty far back. Or going pretty far forward in the next 250 years.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

That's right. Yeah.

Creating Values That Evolve Over Time

SPEAKER_02 26:33

You know, John, one one thing that I think we should highlight that hopefully makes this sound a little bit less daunting is this vision and values. Let's just leave the mission out for a second. Vision and values. You know, first off, is you create these. It's not like you're gonna go on to chat GBT, Gemini, whatever the heck. Okay, family values. Oh, here they are. There we go again.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

That's good. That looks good.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yeah. So for us, I mean, it was it literally was so we think about us as a family. What are some of the values that we think are common? Three by five card again. And you get them all out there, and then you and then you kind of group them and you talk about them. And so we ended up with six. And then it's like, and so gosh, if you had to write just a couple of phrases about how you would define this, not go out onto the website or whatever again. How would we as a family define this? And you get all those, and you might ask a couple of clarifying, nile-leading questions, but we didn't wordsmith those in the moment. What we said is, hey, look, thank you very much. It's really cool stuff here. And Deb and I will take these cards for this value, and we'll come up with a definition from these cards and bring it back to you. And then you all can talk about what you might tweak, change. And that worked really, really well. Um and we had every card in, well, you know, Excel spreadsheet that showed that their cards were still being thought of, and they could see their cards in that definition. So it wasn't like, yeah, we got your cards and toss them in the trash. No, they could see that evolution. And that was just, I think, very, very powerful. And and we also told them that we're going to run with these for a year to a year and a half, and then see if they're working for us. You know, so it wasn't like they got to be perfect, you know, because this is gonna be 10 generations. No, no, no, no, no. Let's just get them down, let's run them. And so every meeting now we check in on those. So tell me, in the last six months, because we we have our meetings every six, six months, in the last six months, how have those values shown up for you? And they say whatever they say, right? But it just keeps bringing them back and bringing them back. And so I just wanted to share again don't get yourself trapped in this perfection. I gotta get these values perfect, I gotta get the definition perfect. No, no, no, no, no. Just get some stuff out there and let it evolve with your family.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

So yeah, and I I love you mentioned the timing as well. Like every six months, probably a good amount of time. It might change in the future, especially as families grow, becomes even more challenging. But that's the and that's the intentionality, that's the commitment that needs to happen, just like you would in terms of getting your team together to do your annual strategic plan. And I and I think about this because you know, listen, what a great time to quote check in. Yeah, we're always texting each other or on the phone once in a while with each other about how things are going, but this is a formal check-in about how, you know, in the last six months and the last year, what's gone well in terms of living those values out for us? Tell me a story about where that was and maybe where it didn't go so well for you and helping each other through that. And I know we haven't touched on it because I think that, you know, both with spouse and and even in the group is that and and as individuals in facilitating, prayer is very important uh to understand that you know, ultimately, leaders, if you're going to do this with your family, you're not going to do it perfectly. That's not what it's all about in doing it perfectly. It's about getting together and and starting that process of the intentionality, of building that that family vision that will last for generations. You touched on it, most businesses, only three percent of fit only three percent of businesses, I think, was a data point you used, uh get to the fourth generation in terms of family-owned businesses. I mean, that's just that's just shocking. It's it's certainly understandable, but I gotta believe one of the reasons that the families weren't aligned with those values and that vision of what was gonna be there for the the business. They may have talked about growth and getting it ready to sell and things like that, but not from the family standpoint. So I think is uh really,

When To Bring In A Facilitator

SPEAKER_00 30:44

really powerful. Now, some folks are gonna say, I just don't have the ability to facilitate that with my family. I've never done anything like that before. When is it okay maybe to bring a f an outside facilitator into that process, do you think, to help you through that journey?

SPEAKER_02 30:59

I would say that you want to be present. So let's just say, you know, that it's the you know, the father you want to be present. And if you know, me, if I'd have been so consumed with getting it right and I didn't facilitate, you know, on a regular basis, and the whole thing of clarifying non-leading questions and being able to to truly not be passing judgment, not be taking it personally. I would want to believe, John, that I would put my personal ego on the sideline and bring in a facilitator. And I would uh I would be pretty rigorous about that choice. I would I would want to make sure that they were able to uh bring out the heart because that's what's that's what's necessary. That's the legacy. It's not what do we do, it's who we are. And so that facilitator has to be skilled in getting to that. This isn't about building a resume, you know. So so it really is you want someone that if it gets hot, if it gets heated, if they feel tension, if they feel insults going back and forth, they know how to handle that. And it's for me, it's not laying down the law, it's usually being even gentler, even more inviting, listening even deeper, not being afraid of silence. So I think it it really is a self-check. You know, is this something I'm familiar doing? Are these skills that I have? And even if I do, do I want to do this because I'm concerned I might not be present? Everyone in that room has to be present.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

I think it's so good. I mean, we teach again on the other side, this comfort learning panic zone, if you will. And if it's a little bit of a you know a self-fulfilling statement, but there there's no pride in this statement, if you find yourself in the panic zone trying to facilitate an activity like that, reach out to us, contact us on LinkedIn, drop us a message, we'd be happy to just do a call with you to talk through what that might look like and getting one of these started for yourself inside of a family meeting. So listeners, you know, don't be afraid to reach out to us just to just to chat with us. But secondly, if you're looking for someone who that might be able to help facilitate a session like that, maybe we're someone that could be aligned. If our to your point, if some of our values line up, some of our process lines up, and knowing what the fruit can be, don't let the fear or the panic zone of not being a good facilitator keep you from getting into that arena, getting into that room. We know that journey. You have to be in the arena to uh make the work happen. And that's when the impact really starts. And the other side is uh, you know, don't be afraid of arguments during these type activities. While we don't want that, there's emotion that comes up in some of these conversations, especially early on when you've not done anything like this before as a family. We've often referred to it as kind of getting a little blood on the carpet, if you will, but I can see breakthrough. And can these turn the other way in terms of going? That's why a great facilitator is needed, because you don't want them to turn in such a way that people just get angry and leave and it's not there. You got to be committed to it, you got to stay to it and really make it happen. Hey, I I like how this conversation has gone. I like how it is

Inheritance, Estate Plans, And True Legacy

SPEAKER_00 34:12

going to continue to go. I mean, look, folks, having an estate plan, a wealth plan is very important, no doubt about it. That's to me, that's the price of admission. You want to take care of your children. Proverbs 13, 22 highlights that a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. But that inheritance, I believe, inside of Proverbs with regards to wisdom is more than just financial. It's legacy in that space. So, Tom, I'm gonna give you the last word. It's been a great conversation. We've actually overrun our time a little bit having fun with this, which is really good. And we could go on talking for hours, and we may end up doing that more in the future. But you know, to that leader out there who's really wanting to be present, wanting to have that kingdom impact, that long-term legacy, you know, what's your what's your kind of last word of advice that you would you know put on maybe one of those three by five cards to get them started?

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Don't let fear rule, you know, because for me, fear holds me back, you know, and fear is the enemy. The enemy doesn't want you to have these meetings. And, you know, we have a couple of family members that I would say are not deep in their faith. And yet, let me just read you one of the definitions about love. So one of our values is love. It says provide unconditional grace, compassion, gratitude for others and ourselves, no matter what. See what God sees in us. Created that definition. I didn't create it. And so, even though, you know, are they going to church on a regular basis? Are they reading the Bible? No, he was present. And so for me, even this call, it's like I want to get this perfect. And you and I prayed beforehand, and we asked the Holy Spirit to come in and be here. And for me, I felt that. I felt that. So, so don't let fear rule. Do not, do not. There's just so much here of the heart, and the family needs a heart today more than ever. More than ever. The family is not built by AI, man. It can't be. It can't be. So it's like, let's go back to manual, you know, let's get rid of the technology. Let's just go back to hugs, you know, go back to being present, go back to listening and caring. And sometimes that can get scary. But you talked about transformation. You talked about inspiration. And those are all journeys of the heart. But John, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

I totally

Final Challenge And Share Request

SPEAKER_00 36:21

enjoyed this conversation. And again, I know we could keep going on, but uh we don't we don't want to lose all the listeners went like, man, these guys just keep going on and on and on. We don't we don't want to go to that space as well. I hope that we get a chance to hear from folks and chat with them about it. Uh certainly, here's the deal, folks. I mean, you know how this process works. Now there's someone in your life, if it's not you, which it may be you, who needs to hear this message, who needs to understand the power of that legacy for generations to come, the power of the impact that we can have that's not just financial. So I asked that you just share this conversation with them. Let them know what that is and see if we can uh you know get more listeners, not just to this episode, but ultimately get those leaders on an uncommon journey to transform and not just conform to the way things are today. If you've gotten this far inside of this conversation, I appreciate you listening all the way through, and I look forward to it. Until next time, go and grow champions.