Business Succession Planning for Owners | Jim Erben | Episode 227

Can you imagine building a successful company, then letting your exit happen by accident? That’s the uncomfortable question we sit with as John Gallagher talks with Jim Urban, a longtime advisor to business owners and the author of Succession By Design. A massive “silver tsunami” is coming as millions of businesses change hands, and Jim makes the stakes clear: postponing succession planning doesn’t just delay retirement; it quietly increases taxes, magnifies risk, lowers valuation, and leaves your family and key employees exposed if life throws a curveball.

🚀 𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐘𝐨𝐮’𝐥𝐥 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧:
• Why the silver tsunami makes succession urgent
• The real cost of delaying succession planning in stress, taxes, and risk
• Using a clear destination to guide decisions over time
• Fear, pride, and not knowing the right questions as the hidden blockers
• A cautionary story about an unexecuted will and the fallout
• Why we include spouses as equal partners in planning
• Family constitution, legacy retreat, and ethical will as legacy tools
• How leadership depth and systems raise business value for a buyer
• Continuity planning to prevent chaos if something happens suddenly
• Defining the happily ever after number and safe withdrawal rates
• Using Monte Carlo simulation to pressure-test the plan
• Building the right roster of advisors for exit and estate planning

We dig into why smart leaders still avoid a business succession plan, from fear of bad news to not knowing what questions to ask. Jim shares real stories that show the human cost of “we’ll handle it later,” including what happens when basic estate planning documents never get executed. From there, we zoom out to legacy planning that actually works: involving spouses as true partners, preparing heirs for responsibility, and using practical family governance tools like a family constitution, a legacy retreat, and an ethical will so wealth transfer comes with clarity and values.

On the business side, we connect succession planning to leadership development and continuity planning. If the company is owner-centric, buyers will price that risk in, often through discounts and long earnouts. Jim also walks us through the “happily ever after” number, safe withdrawal rates, and how a Monte Carlo simulation helps stress-test whether your plan can hold up in the real world.

If you want succession by design instead of default, listen now, share this with a leader who needs it, and subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next. If you found it valuable, please leave a review and tell us what part hit home.

𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 Jim Erben👇
➡️ LinkedIn (primary): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-erben/
➡️ YouTube: Erben Associates, LLC
➡️ Book: https://jimerben.com/?ct=1784004151263

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Transcript

Legacy And Leadership Hook

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Can you imagine running your business like Patton? Maybe with a little bit softer glove than he had, but he knew what they were going up against. He knew they were going up against the Germans, he knew they were fierce, but he also instilled knowledge and confidence in his leaders. And that's the same thing, you know, when you see a business owner that has a great leadership team, that feels like they're autonomous and what they're overseeing, and they're all they're all pulling in the same direction. It's no accident that they're more successful than their peers that don't. All things think it's too big. And I've just never understood how, you know, your family ought to be the same way, not as hard hardened as probably a business if you get so many mouths and families to feed. But if you think about it, you probably have more mouths and families to feed in your legacy that you're not communicating than you do in your business.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Hey uncommon leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I'm your host, John Gallagher. What if the legacy you leave behind isn't just about the business you build, but about the lives you touch and the future you secure? We often talk about that as uncommon leaders. Well, today's guest, a second time guest, Jim Urban, and he spent over three decades guiding visionary leaders through one of the most overlooked challenges they'll ever face, designing a succession plan that protects their life's work, their family, and their legacy. His new book, Succession by Design, is packed with real life stories, some cautionary and some inspiring that reveal why fewer than one in five business owners have a written succession plan and what that means for everyone who depends on them. But here's the twist. This message isn't just for business owners, it's for anyone in a position of leadership who cares about what happens next, about the people, the values, and the impact that will endure long after they're gone. And he challenged us to ask, what's your magic number? What will it take for you to live out your life happily ever after? And how are you going to ensure your legacy is intentional, not just accidental? So whether you're running a company, leading a team, or simply thinking about the future, Jim's insights here are going to clarify your vision and align your personal and professional goals and help you design a plan that lets you exit in style on your terms. So get ready for a conversation. It's about more than business, it's about life, leadership, and the power of planning for what's next. Hey, Jim Urban. Welcome back to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. How are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I'm doing great, John. I'm glad to be back. It's been a year.

Silver Tsunami And Rising Urgency

SPEAKER_00 2:27

It has been a year. I can't believe as we record this, folks, you understand it was one year ago today where we released episode 175 with Jim Urban. And I wanted to actually touch on that. We talked about the silver tsunami, which is in your new book, which we'll talk about here in a little bit. But let me ask you, in a year, has it gotten any better or is it getting worse?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

No, uh, it hasn't gotten any better. The storm clouds are are coming in the horizon. You can see it. So it's if people are getting a little bit more anxious about it, I would say, but it hadn't really changed a whole lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, I think that's a good thing. Again, they're a year older. We talked about that in terms of how folks are seeing the generational gap in terms of their business and what they need to do with it as leaders and as business owners. But we're here to talk about that succession by design in terms of your book. So let's talk about topic. Let's let's jump right into it so folks know what's happening. What does

The Real Cost Of Waiting

SPEAKER_00 3:12

it actually cost a business owner or a leader to continue to put off succession planning and not worry about it?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Two things. First of all, I'm gonna take a step back. The reason why most people face their future, whether it's exiting their business, retiring from a big company, or whatever, the reason that my most people face the future with apprehension instead of anticipation is because they really don't have it well designed. Whatever it is, whatever their retirement, whatever their exit is, it's not well designed. And the second thing that I think a prospective business owner that would listen to this or an advisor that is dealing with their business owners, if I told you, John, if you had an identical twin, had an identical business, kids, family, objectives, everything were identical. Your twin brother just kept doing what they're doing, sticking their head down and hoping for a great day sometime in the future, you came up with a well thought out plan of how you're gonna someday leave your business so that you can exit with minimal risk of ever running out of money, minimal taxes, and you'll live happily ever after, with a robust continuity plan that will protect your family, your business, and your key employees in the event of a continuity event that's unforeseen. Who's more likely to accomplish their objectives with less stress? And that's the question I always ask. And if anybody says no, you need to walk away because they don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, I love that analogy in terms of just comparing the two into family. Who's gonna get their kind of best and intact and first? And while the answer seems so obvious, we wait so long. I mean, look, from the CEO who's listening or the leader who's listening right now says, I'm only 52 years old, I'm not I'm not planning to retire for another 15 years. What do I need to worry about that now for? What do I need to worry about that now for, Jim?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I'm not a sailor, but I'm gonna use the sailing analogy. If you don't know, you know, there was there's a great quote in my book from a famous Roman philosopher named Seneca, and it says, if a person does not know what harbor they are making for, no wind is the right wind. And the analogy is if you don't know where you're going, the boat can take you anywhere it wants to go. If you're not looking up to make sure that you're going towards the island you want to go to or the destination you want to go to, the wind may blow you right, it may blow you left. How do you know if it's on track? That that's that's probably my best response to it.

Fear And Exit Planning Blind Spots

SPEAKER_00 5:27

So what keeps them from doing it then? What do you see? I mean, look, you got 30 years. You wrote the book, we're gonna talk about your book. You didn't just write it, the book in the last six months, although you may have written it. You've been writing it for 30 years. What do they don't not do it?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Fear, I guess, honestly, fear of kind of like a lot of people don't go to the doctor because they don't want to know. Probably anxiety in that they don't know what questions to ask, they don't really know how to formulate their objectives, and so they're just hoping, you know, the old adage, just you know, you need to hire somebody. I'm being facetious, but you need to hire somebody to tell you to more revenue and more profitability, and you'll be more profitable. And inherently that's accurate. But there's a lot of other things that go into it. And you know, we always try to prepare people for exiting their business either internally or to a third party, that if you were buying your business, what holes would you poke to push down the value? Is it you know executive retention? Is it risk management? Is it whatever it is? What is it that if you were buying John Gallagher, you would poke holes in? They don't have this, this isn't quite where it needs to be, this isn't quite where it needs to be. It's a self-reflection.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

You know, you think about it, uh first of all, I think fear is exactly right, fear of that unknown. You know, they don't want to go to the doctor, it's kind of the same thing. You don't want to talk to a financial advisor and talk about what's possible. If you don't do that, to your point, your boat analogy, you're gonna get exactly where you end up. There's there's no intention with that. And you your book, Succession by Design, is very intentional, or they they don't know what questions to ask. And as it seems weird that their pride gets in the way and they don't want to ask the questions, they don't want to tell somebody that they don't know, especially since they've owned a business and and brought it up from uh you know, bootstrapped it all the way up through. I can see how both of those things that would be a problem. So you've written the book. Tell me kind of who who did you write it for, uh, and why why did you write it now? What's what's this what's the uh timing have to do with writing it now?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Let's go repeat a comment that was at the beginning of our last a year ago, 365 days ago. There's a silver tsunami coming. I represent part of it. I'm in my early 60s. And the silver tsunami is in the next eight years, 10 million businesses are changing hands for somewhere in a neighborhood of over $13 trillion. That's probably greater than 40% of our GDP. So the question to ask yourself if you're a business owner or if you're advising business owners is are you gonna take the Forrest Gump and Lieutenant Dan approach and hope you weather the hurricane? It worked out well for them, but do you really want to take that risk? Or do you want to take the one that you know favors you know preparation or favor preparate prepares the those prepared? Yeah, which is the better approach? And I have never seen proactive planning ever be detrimental to an outcome ever in 30 years. And I've seen a lot of failure to plan that has caused horrific results.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Jim, you talk about that in the conclusion of your book, and I again we're kind of all over one of the your book is full of examples, which is really powerful in and of itself, of what good looks like with regards to planning and what bad looks like. And you talk about tell me tell them the sort of the and I don't want to we're not gonna share every story in the book because we want them to write the book and not everything about it, but that story struck me where you had a spouse who came back and said, Can you get the will out? And he didn't really do anything, lost somebody early and didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

For sure.

The Will Story And Family Risk

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I got a call from a lady that I knew. I had spoken with him eight years ago, she and her husband. I was out of town, my staff called me and said, There's a lady here named Jane who is pretty frantic and very upset, and she needs a copy of her will. I didn't have a really good feeling in my gut, and I just said, tell her to go home. I've got her number, I'll call her here shortly. And I told everybody, I said, you know, go into our server and look up the last name and tell me what you have. We had nothing. Not the answer I wanted, but it was the answer I expected. We had contacted her husband eleven times via telephone, text, and email combined. And his last text response to me was, I don't have time to mess with this right now. So they never executed their will. There were two teenage kids in the house. Their husband was found dead on their ranch, and it was just a traumatic situation. So it helped me really start focusing heavy on legacy planning for our existing clients. Because, first of all, women outlive men by 5.8 years, and once the the man passes away and the lady has left, she's the last barrier to the greatest transfer of wealth in our country's history. Are your kids prepared? Do they know what the expectations are of the wealth coming down to them? And the funny part of that story is most more than half of the people don't want to disclose to their kids that they're wealthy. They're driving a Range Rover, sometimes flying on a private jet for spring break, and they have a pretty good idea, kids aren't dumb, that they're not gonna be, you know, getting, you know, food stamps for lunches or coupons for lunches at school. I mean and I tell them this all the time. We don't want them to know how much we have. I'm like, that's your plan? That's not a plan. That's a failure to plan. They know. They're not gonna think you've had this business for 30, 40, 50 years, second generation, third generation. They understand that they're above the poverty level by a hundredfold.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

The last chapter or next to the last chapter in your book is titled Ladies, may I have your attention. In fact, I think it might even be the at the conclusion. And that's a little bit about what you're saying. How let's let's should use the spouse. And again, I you talk about this as not just about the ladies, although they outlive. Some ladies are business owners, some are leaders. It's not what this is about, but it's about are we engaging our family in this planning process? Which is another one of those barriers, by the way, to your point. We're kind of afraid to tell them what's happening, what the can situations are, or you know, they don't think that you're gonna be poor, but the other side is you don't think you that they are uh mature enough to handle what might be them as well. So why is it so important for you know the spouse uh to ultimately get active in this process, both talking to the leader here to make sure you include them, don't be egocentric and do that, but secondly for the spouse to really work their way in.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

You just hit on two points, either intentionally or by accident. I've had so many, we've gotten new clients because the the planner or the firm did not ever pay ever didn't even in one case didn't even look the spouse in the eye, the wife in the eye. And and whether it's you know same-sex marriage, partners, whatever, I mean uh you you have to treat both spouses equal. It's common sense. I mean, we have great relationships with this with the non-working in-the-business spouse. That doesn't mean they're not working, but we have great relationships with the spouses. And I it stuns me, and I I I beat my head against the wall with some of our clients who say, Look, she Laura knows she's gonna call you. I'm like, that's not a plan either. We need to sit down and talk. I mean, good night. I mean, what you don't want to have happen, and for those of you that are advisors or those of you that are running businesses, you don't want your spouse to pick up the phone after you got hit by a bus and have to deal with financial uncertainty and turmoil by not being included in the discussions that are going to outline the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. And they're many times they're tax inefficient. And, you know, as you might, you know, John, if you or your wife had, you know, something happened to you, most people's wives, if they don't know, they're scared to death. So they're they have inaction. They don't want to act, they're afraid to make a mistake because it's costly. And I just don't understand that that we are not focusing actually more on them than the than the primary business owner. I'm I'm dead serious because I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I think I think you're spot on, and I think involving both the spouse and to a certain extent the family in in that process is so important. And it it comes down to legacy as well. So it's not just the wealth itself, but it's the legacy in terms of the family. And

Legacy Tools For Generational Stewardship

SPEAKER_00 13:22

you talk about, which I I mean I've highlighted and I really wanted to hear from you about each one of these a little bit, three legacy tools that families can use. One is the family constitution, uh, the second is the legacy retreat, and then the third is the ethical will. Those are three tools that you talk about inside the book. Tell tell me as much or a little about those as as you want to, and how that helps um if you know a family and a leader in this in this journey.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Probably the best way, I I'm just gonna tell another story. Thank you. Storyteller.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

We had a a gentleman in in Texas who passed away. We were never able to meet his adult kids. One was 25, the son, the daughter was 29, she was married, the son wasn't. Their mother had passed away years before. We we never got to know her. But for whatever reason, you know, even when he was sick, you know, you don't need to meet them. So he passes away a week or two later, the brother's on, we know him, he's a client of ours, he's a trustee. And we're saying each of you have, you know, several million dollars in a trust. And we suggest that you limit your it was actually like six. You limit your your income withdrawal three percent, and that way the principal will always be protected and it'll grow for you and account for inflation, everything else. So that's $180,000. So do either of you have any questions on that? The son raises his hand and goes, I just made barista at Starbucks. Does that mean I have to quit? I mean, Tom My Eyes were like, What? He just didn't have a clue. He said, Am I do I have to quit my job? And I'm like, No, it's the opposite. You just you have a backstop, but you need to go on and be a productive member of society. And then on the flip side of that, the daughter wanted to bring her husband in because he's good with numbers. And I'm like, this is the fruits, the $180,000 a year that can come out, you guys can enjoy together. But your dad meant and mom meant this just for you. Well, she didn't understand it, yet they were divorced, you know, a year later. And had they commingled it, it would have been community property and tax. And and back to your original question, because that that's really what what the story was is really what's at risk. There's no expectation laid out to the kids of of what is our expectations are of you in future generations, what the money's meant to do, what it's not meant to do, and how we want you to be stewards of it. And I I go back to the Olympics. When the torch relay happens, which is what you're doing when passing well from generation to generation. Now the torch gets bigger, but if you just say it's the same thing, so you you pass the torch, I'm running, and here comes John Gallagher, and I hand it to John. John takes off. John doesn't drop the, hopefully drop the torch. He doesn't go, you know, lay it on the sidewalk and go in and have a sandwich. He's running to the next destination and meeting the next one.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Hey, Uncle Leaders. Hope you're enjoying the episode so far. I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name. That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company. Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand, are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists. They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact. So head on over to CoachJongGallagher.com slash BBG, as in Brand Builders Group, to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons. That's CoachJohnGallagher.com slash BBG. Now, let's get back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

What would happen if we didn't have that plan? The torch would get lost, it'd be dropped, the flame would go out. All of these metaphors and and analogies are related to the transfer of wealth into multiple generations. The Vanderbilt family, which I talk about in our book, everybody knows it. Cornelius Vanderbilt passed away in 1877. They had, I don't know, 200 million dollars in I believe that's the accurate number, in their in their estate. That was more than the Treasury had, federal government had. And then on the flip side of that, you can look at the Rockefeller family. And, you know, legacy is more than just that. Legacy is teaching values and the things you want to instill in your family. I'm working with some great friends of mine that, you know, have done extremely well and we're talking to their kids. And, you know, this is a responsibility for you, is what they tell them. This, you know, I'm sorry that you're burdened with this. If you don't want to be, we'll give it all to charity. But if you want it, it comes with, you know, we don't want great grandkids, you know, sticking drugs up their nose and or laying on the beach and Malibu eating bonbons. We want everybody to be productive citizens of society. And your kids don't know that if you don't explain that to them. And they'll give you feedback back. I mean, I've had I've had kids say, hey, put somebody else in charge of it. We'll do what you're saying, but that's a big responsibility, and I want to raise my kids. That's fair. But get dialogue going, it's very important.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, I loved that how you described and folks again getting the book and kind of reading your way through that family constitution, the you know, the vision and values for your family are just as important. You mentioned the Vanderbilt family and this and the the failure. That's only five generations-ish, you know, a hundred years in terms of that change. And, you know, none of them are millionaires from that number that started. You know, that's that's uh not having a vision for how you want to treat that as a family. It's not having values for how you set, and that legacy retreat really is about communicating and developing those values. Look, we spent all that time doing it as a business in terms of vision and values. Why wouldn't we do that as a family as well? I think it's just really powerful and something the folks need to read about. Coming back a little bit to that business side, which makes sense with this, because then you know that's a, if you will, succession gap in the family side.

Build Leaders So Value Transfers

SPEAKER_00 19:07

You really are writing this, and your clients, though, are on the business side. That succession gap, you refer to it fundamentally as a leadership gap on the business when that doesn't continue on, this this tsunami that's coming, and we don't know what we're gonna do with the business. And so tell me about that. How is this succession gap or lack of succession planning really a leadership gap? And what what are the blind spots that the leaders see?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

You know, probably the the best way, I mean, I'm a junk I'm a George Patton disciple. I I love the movie, I love reading his books, I love I love most of how he managed. Can you imagine running your business like Patton? Maybe with a little bit softer glove than he had. But he knew what they were going up against. He knew they were going up against the Germans, he knew they were fierce, but he also instilled knowledge and confidence in his leaders. And it's the same thing, you know, when you see a business owner that has a great leadership team that feels like they're autonomous and what they're overseeing, and they're all they're all pulling in the same direction, it's no accident that they're more successful than their peers that don't. All things being considered, and I've just never understood how, you know, and you said it a minute ago, your family ought to be the same way, not as hard hardened as probably a business, because you've got so many mouths and families to feed. But if you think about it, you probably have more mouths and families to feed in your legacy that you're not communicating than you do in your business, unless you have many thousands of people, and pretty soon your legacy is going to catch up to it.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Absolutely. Jim, you touched on a story before we hit the record button too about the the power of uh closing that succession gap in the business for you know for the owner, and that they don't have to be as involved in everyday business uh and that the systems they put in place and the development of their people can provide them some freedom that they're not ready for. I'd love to if you share that kind of that you know Memorial Day to Labor Day story that just is really powerful with regards to the the impact of developing your people and having systems in place.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

There's no one that wants to buy your business and feel like they have to be married to you, John.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Great point.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

They they mean they have one marriage and they don't need another one. And I'm not gonna pay you fair market value for your business if every key relationship and and you are the linchpin to the business and your underlings, which is what they are at that point, they're not leaders, aren't capable of running it if something happens to you. Because if I invest in your company, I'm not gonna give you the upfront cash you're you're talking about. We're gonna have a long earnout. Because I've got to make sure that the that your sk that the owner's skills and relationships transfer over. And you know that you do that from a consulting basis. I mean, you're fantastic at that. If you don't have that, then you've got your your key people that are just walking around blind. They don't know who's in charge. That's you know, one thing absent a robust continuity plan. Most business owners devote two or three people over time playing golf, hunting, fishing, whatever. If anything happens to me, Jane, you're supposed to take over the business. Or later. If anything happens to me, John, you're supposed to take over the business. I get hit by a bus, they both meet at the water cooler and go, I'm in charge. No, he said I'm in charge. And chaos ensues. I've seen it happen real time.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

You know, you talking about that, Jim. What I what I hear you're saying too is that, and again, more stories in the book and things like that, but the value of your business, if you are looking to sell it, is uh and the increase in value in business is more closely related to the leaders that you're developing below you and the systems that you put in place than it is your revenue. While the revenue is very important in having that, the folks who are coming in, they don't really I I say they don't care, they care about that, but they want to know that it's going to go on without you, right? I mean, what what type of impact can it have on the value if you're the owner-centric, if you're the only one that that they can rely on?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Twofold answer. First is if you're listening to this, flip your business around. And if the business was worth thirty million dollars, twenty million, I don't care, pick the figure that you think your business is worth. Would you pay fair market value for it if they had someone like you running the business the way you're running it? I.e. it's owner-centric. Think of the, I mean, I I would estimate I would pay fifteen to twenty percent less and or stretch it out. I would stretch out the payment because there's risk on me. I I go write you a check and all the relationships are tied to you and they're out. And then you know, or the skills. I don't know what I need to know to make this business successful.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

You know, I it's it's what I preach all the time. Developing yourself, developing the leaders around you, putting systems and processes in place ultimately leads to sustainable success and or value, increased value inside the organization. And they they sometimes the blind spot is when they hear that number for the first time, you're like, what do you mean it's only worth that? Because they've been so involved in the business that they haven't had a chance to see that. It's it's so important. And folks, you do you just got to listen to that. Even as a leader, if you're not a business owner, and what you're leaving for the next leader in terms of getting them ready and how long that sucks success is sustainable.

Find Your Number And Stress Test

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I want to talk about one more concept in your book, because again, we can't talk about all of them. That but you touched on the words already, and I want you to tell the listeners what it really means. The happily ever after number. What is that and how do why should leaders really care about it?

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Because it is probably the most important number that involves your action. And I I just I'm gonna go back to the silver tsunami. If you're gonna do the forest gump and lieutenant dan approach, God bless you. The number is what number do you need or want for you and your spouse to live happily ever after with minimal to no risk of ever running out of it? Might be your current compensation. I don't know. But what we do is we figure it out, and I'll just use an easy number of four hundred thousand dollars a year, if that's what you make right now. You would need more than ten million dollars net, net, net taxes that you paid for selling, net everything. Close your cost to all that stuff because that's four percent of ten million dollars. And that's the most I really like to see three and a half or less. So I would rather, I mean, there's I've had people that have exited in a ten million dollar business and they call me. We didn't, they weren't our client, they became our client, but we had to postpone it. They were needing five hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year on a ten million dollar business. And I said, you have three choices here. One, reduce the amount of money you need, which I never like to suggest that, but bring yourself under $400,000. And that's never a pleasant conversation. It picks people off. Secondly, why don't you keep putting money away on the side and grow your business another three or four years so that we can get that number under four percent of the withdrawal rate, maybe whatever that'd be, 14 million, whatever that number is. Or the third option is start smoking camel no filters and shorten your life expectancy because that's the only thing. Reduce your expectancy in life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, but that number's critical. It's critical.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah, you mentioned the the Monte Carlo simulation. So you're talking about those percentages, is that you know the Monte Carlo simulation is what it what is that percentage going to be and what's the likelihood that you're going to be able to do that based on where you are today. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

And it and it tells you based on a thousand market iterations, it it takes into account just about every single thing. And we won't sign off on a plan that doesn't have a greater than 85% Monte Carlo success rate.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Love that. And that that's uh again, that's 85% likely that you're gonna have the money that you think you're gonna have and live. I really like that. Another concept inside the book that you explain really well for folks to understand. So the book test, they're going to read your book, they're gonna set it up on the shelf behind me, you know, just like the shelf behind me, and they're gonna say, Man, I read that book again now. You clearly want them to take some action. You talk about in the book, you talk about a roster of folks they need to have. Just like your medical advisor, you need a team to take care of your wealth. The financial planner or wealth planner, the exit planning strategist, the CPA, a business attorney, estate planning, and an MA advisor, a team to help you get that done. You provide many of those roles, but even as a leader, you need to have at least that wealth manager, CPA.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

You have to have somebody that can articulate a plan for you. Because this plan is fluid. It's not like you know, you're blueprinted a house you're living in, you know, you're one and done. You built the house, you made the changes, and you're done. This plan changes. And if you if you wonder why you why does it change, think about you, the business owner. What has changed in your life in the last three to five years? You may have different key executives, you may have opened a new business, an ancillary. I mean, there's just a lot of things that happen, and they impact the direction of your ship sailing towards whatever your destination is. I I can't express enough. I mean, the people you need and the people that aren't doing a very good job of doing this plan. When I have somebody tell me, my lawyer did our exit plan, really. What did your lawyer tell you that your receptionist needs to say if you get hit by a bus and your largest client calls tomorrow morning? What was the exact script that they're supposed to say? And they look at me with a blank stare. And you need somebody that is in the planning business. That's why builders aren't architects, and architects aren't builders. We're an architect, we help design plans. There are a few firms out in the country that do this, but find somebody that's gonna start with a blank piece of paper and find out what your goals are, and then get a value of the business. So because that's gonna drive the whole process. Know your number, align your personal wealth with your business succession plan, and then you know, with a continuity plan and all the things that are in the book, you will exit in style. I mean, that's succession by design, or do you want succession by default? That's the other half.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I guess I should have written the other half of the book. Say that one again. Do you want succession by design or succession by default?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Our program that we do is succession by design, not default. The book is titled Succession by Design. The by default is a no-brainer. That's not doing planning. And it's over the all of the stories that we've just talked about.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, good intentions. You can have all kinds of good intentions. That's that's by default. But being intentional with your decisions. And I think I heard you say the first thing they ought to really do is figure out what their number is, what that big number is after the number so they can work the plan, develop the plan and work the plan.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

The reason I wrote the book is we can't get to the ten million people that are out there. I wrote it to start getting people to think. I wrote it to get advisors to think on behalf of their clients. Because I don't want to see what sometimes I hear stories about, like the person that didn't have the will or that didn't have the exit plan, and it's it's never

Order The Book And Take Action

SPEAKER_01 29:22

a good story.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, it's an awful story. Jim, we're gonna get this up, they're gonna get this episode out before your book comes out, actually on july twenty-eighth. Where do you want folks to uh go to get the book? And if they get there before july twenty eighth, what are some of the things they get as a, if you will, a free gift?

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Depending on how many you buy, you can go on our website. It's succession by designbook.com. I'll repeat that. Succession bydesignbook.com. It's got where you can order it. If you want bulk orders, there's incentives in there, there's all kinds of things in there. It couldn't be a fishing trip or a college football game in Austin, Texas, or what have you, depending on how many. But I'm I'm really trying to go out and spread the word, even to my colleagues. I don't really call them competitors, but to our colleagues, to really go out and help these business owners because they're asking for it. This is one of the most requested topics in the country today, because people are getting scared.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

So they can also go, you can you'll speak about it as well. You can bring you you're speaking to organizations uh to speak about this topic. And you're right, I think it is a topic that doesn't get talked about enough. Folks, I do encourage you to go out there uh and get a book, get a copy, at least a copy of the book uh for you. If you're a business owner or a leader and you want to plan your future, as as Jim said, you want to s have succession by design and you don't want to do it by default anymore. Get out there and get a copy of this book. Jim, you mentioned uh Texas baseball is one of the potential gifts, if you will. Or you didn't say baseball, you said a football game, I think, versus old misses on the website. Just as we record this, we're getting ready for the College World Series to get started up in both our teams, UT and uh West Virginia University, are two of the eight teams in the College World Series. So you guys have been there before. We've never been there. You can let us have this one anyway.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

I'll let them go.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

I don't even have, you know, because my Monte Carlo is only like 83%. I don't want to I don't want to bet on the Mountaineers, but they're playing pretty well and be singing country roads in front of you. That's my walk-up song. Hey, I want to ask you just some fun. If you had a walk-up song in baseball, you're getting ready to go out to bat, and they're playing the song for Jim Urban, what's the song gonna be that they're gonna play while you're walking up to bat?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Can't believe I'm gonna say this. It just comes we are the champions? All right, okay, I just want to do it just to piss off the team.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Not that you're a rebel or anything like that. So good. Sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

One of the things that occasionally, as an advisor or or a business owner, you're gonna need when you have a gap, whether it is an organizational gap or you have a growth gap where you need to be implementing strategies outside the nine dots, you all should look up, and and I'm saying this, he has no idea I'm getting ready to say this, but you need to look up John Gallagher because he is instrumental. And anybody I find that has a gap in organizational or growth, he would be the first person I would call. And I I really do mean that. I've known you for a couple of years, and I'm there's nobody that impresses me out there from a consulting basically.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Well, Jim, I appreciate that. You're right. I wasn't ready for it, I wasn't ready to blush or anything like that on the call nor asked for, but I do appreciate it. I appreciate those kind words, and I love getting to have conversations with you, and I hope there's more in the future, especially uh as you take this book, get it out there, and get in the hands of folks who really need to be helped. So, Jim, it's been great chatting with you. I wish you the best with it, and uh thanks again for uh adding value to the listeners of the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Thank you, sir. I appreciate being on here again, sir.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Such an important topic. I love having conversations with Jim Urban. I mean, that the points that he makes with regards to the leadership gap that exists in succession planning and the simplicity of the title of the book, Succession by Design. I just love that. Whether it can whether you're a leader or a business owner, there's something there for you, and don't wait, no doubt about it. We do not want to do this by default. You need to get a plan to get your legacy to be continued both from a wealth standpoint inside of your business and your financial future, but also with your family with those core values and vision as well. Just both of those are so important. So I can't recommend this book enough. And I hope you've heard something in this podcast that you know somebody else needs to hear. Please share it with them. That'd be great. And again, drop us a five star review on Spotify or Podcast or Google, wherever it is, Amazon where you're listening. I love to hear reviews and I see reviews, and I appreciate those words. Hey, go and lead by design and grow champions. Until next time, go and grow champions.