Why Every CEO Needs a "Barbarian Mindset" to Flourish | Episode 228 | Ed Hinman

In this episode, host John Gallagher sits down with Ed Hinman—Naval Academy grad, former Division I football player, Marine Corps veteran, author, and coach. Ed shares why so many accomplished leaders still feel hollow inside and introduces a practical framework from his book, The Barbarian in You, to help rebuild health, leadership, and meaning through three core pillars: Vigor, Wonder, and Fellowship.

 Key Takeaways & Discussion Highlights

• Taking Ownership Under Pressure: Ed reflects on his late teens at the Naval Academy Prep School, where academic failure forced him to stop drifting and take total agency over his life.
• The “Barbarian” Within: Why returning to “nature’s rules” is essential for modern humans—and how sedentary routines, screens, and isolation quietly drain our vigor, wonder, and fellowship.
• Pain as a Catalyst for Clarity: How personal struggle unlocks self-awareness and leads to the life-changing question: “What do I really want?”
• Escaping “Joy Envy” and the “Should Heads”: Overcoming the pressure of other people’s expectations and learning to lead from your own values rather than outside obligations.
• Vigor & Community in Action: Using unexpected examples of relentless energy (like David Lee Roth) and looking at Ed’s “Point View Crew” fire pit gatherings as a blueprint for men to rebuild intentional community.
• Leading from the Overflow: A practical reminder for leaders to fill their own cup first so they can serve others from the overflow rather than running on empty.

𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 Ed Hinman
LinkedIn (primary): https://www.linkedin.com/in/edhinman/
Website: https://www.barbarianinyou.com/home?ct=1784611307753
Book: https://www.barbarianinyou.com/?ct=1784611304532

Which pillar are you going after next: Vigor, Wonder, or Fellowship? Share this episode with a friend who needs it and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Go to coachjongallagher.com forward slash own it and set up a free call with the Own It coaching team.

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Transcript

Vigor Wonder Fellowship Teaser

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Living with bigger wonder those you know as you said those three boxes it just reminds people You're not you're not a cog for production, you're not a grain a drain for consumption, you're not a fund for government. You are flexible, you are a human being, you're not a human being to it. You are the and this is how we're designed to live and as a result of it. Vigor, wonder, fellowship, get it? Whatever activities you're into, get it.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Hey

Meet Ed Hinman And His Book

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast. I'm your host, John Gallagher, and I'm looking forward to this conversation today. I've got a guest who understands what it means to perform at the highest level, no doubt about it. He's a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, a Division I football player, eight years in the Marine Corps. Thank you for your service, Ed, as we go through that. And he's uh got a master's degree in history and he loves kettlebells. So I can't imagine we're gonna get a chance to talk about today. But he's the author of the new book, The Barbarian in You Vigor, Wonder, and Fellowship. And we're diving into this warrior poet blueprint, ultimately to help you answer the question, what do I want? And many more. So, Ed, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Great to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Fine, John. It's a real pleasure to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yep. Good. I'm glad you're here. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. But you don't get a break even as a Marine, although, again, I appreciate your service.

A Prep School Lesson In Agency

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I'm going to ask you the same first question I ask all my first-time guests. And that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person, as a leader, or as a barbarian.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, I was I think the one that I tell the most to people that really changed me was I was 17. So late in childhood, right on the cusp of adulthood. And you mentioned I went to the Naval Academy. Well, in between high school and the Naval Academy, I went to the Naval Academy Prep School, which essentially is where they send enlisted Marines or sailors who get into the Naval Academy to prepare them academically, as well as recruited athletes like yours truly, who maybe didn't have the best GPA in high school. And so it's a very intense program academically because they want to set you up for success. And to graduate the Naval Academy Prep School, you have to have a 2.0. Now that sounds easy. At least for me it wasn't at that age. And every day there's two calculus classes. Every day there's a physics class, there's a chemistry class. So you're really just getting beat up because you're about to go to what essentially is an engineering school. This it's probably one of the reasons I majored in history there. And so halfway through the first semester, I had a 1.5 GPA. Now, a one if I if I graduate with that, well, I wouldn't graduate. And I wouldn't go to the Naval Academy. And I remember being on a this is how long ago it was, a payphone. This is 1994. And I was telling my dad, and I remember him saying, Well, you know, if it doesn't work out, you know, we there's other options. And I started tearing up. And the guy next to me is like, is everything okay? And I'm just covering my face, like, yeah, everything's fine. And I went back to my room and we had these metal desks. And if you open up the top of the desk, everyone had photos from high school up there. So I went and I took all my photos from high school down. I put them in in a drawer. And then I started writing note cards like, you know, 2-0 and go. You are going to the Naval Academy. So I decided right there, I need to do something about this. And every single day I went to my math professor's office after class for an hour and got extra instruction every day. Even if I didn't need to go, I was there. Always there. And at the end, studying, studying on weekends, everything, I got a C in his class. And because there was two math classes, that accounted for two-fifths of my overall GPA. And I had above a 2-0 at the end of that semester. And it was the first real time in my life where I said, I have agency. If there's a challenge, and this was a sink or swim moment, I mean, it would have changed the course of my life forever, whether I succeeded or failed. And it was really a crossroads, and I made the decision to get my act together and to do the work and to use my resources, to use that professor and the people around me who wanted to help me, but they weren't going to help me without me helping myself. And it was a lesson, like I said, an agency that I have the power to accomplish goals that I set for myself, but it is ultimately on me. My parents aren't going to call the Naval Academy and get me a B. That isn't going to happen. So I had to do the work, and uh that was a turning point in my life for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

No, I love that as a decision. Man, it has to feed into some of those things, some of those stories that were in your book, whether it's directly in there or indirectly in there. But ultimately, it sounds like you went back and says there isn't like an option, a plan B. There's no plan B. It's going to be this plan. And we're going to make it where you're going to write it down. To your point, you had agency, you're going to take control. You had made the choice right then and there. When I teach clients all the time, is that one of the first things you got to do is make that choice. And we usually change and we'll get better out of inspiration or out of desperation. And a little bit of both of those things were probably there for you in terms of the story you didn't want to tell with regards to desperation, but also inspiration in terms of many of the things that you accomplished. So well done. And thank you for sharing that story. Thank you for sharing that story. It was a great lesson. Okay, so I'm glad I learned that. When you go through the Naval Academy, it's about leadership as well. Whether it's an engineering school, it's about leadership. You play sports, it's got to be about leadership and teamwork as well. As you go through that, marine, all these different things you've done in terms of leadership.

The Barbarian And The Three Pillars

SPEAKER_01 5:45

And you come out with this book and you say the barbarian in you. Now, barbarian sounds like a harsh definition of what would be there. And many people think about it, but tell me what you believe the core definition of barbarian. Explain that from the title standpoint ultimately. And frankly, some of the barriers maybe that you had, but what are the barriers that we as leaders, as men today face in achieving that status, if you will, and what you're seeing?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

That's a good question. So the first part of your question, so a barbarian conjures images of Conan, right? Or the Visigoths sacking Rome. That's they were the original barbarians, uh people who lived outside of civilization, let's say. And so, and as defined by the people, of course, who live in civilization. And so I have a fascination with history, and and and these sort of renegades captivated me with wonder. But as I learned more about them, I learned it was really for me what defines a barbarian is how they live. And the barbarian in you is the ancient part of you, the part of you that's connected to your pre-civilized ancestors, the part of you that wants to live in accordance to the rules of nature, as we're designed to live. And they lived that way before you could say they were sort of corrupted by technology or civilization. Not against civilization, as a lot of pros, but the barbarians offer us pros too. And I think it's about incorporating the pros of different ways of life. And the barbarians, I deduced, lived with vigor, physically, wonder spiritually, and fellowship, just love for each other within their tribe. And those components, to me, um are offer real lessons. They did them to survive. You know, they had to hunt and fight, that's the vigor. They had, you know, they worshiped their gods. They believed in a supernatural world and in magic that supported them spiritually. And then obviously the fellowship, they had people looking out for them. They did it to survive, but we need to still need it to thrive. You may not need those things to survive in you know, in the 21st century, but every happy person I know has those three things going on in their life, and other every unhappy person I know is missing at least one of them. And so when you talk about what is holding maybe leaders back from living according to the sort of rule book that we have from nature, the way that we've evolved as a species, and I think more than ever, it's easy. We're working from home more, we're addicted to technology more. So that automatically is removing fellowship from the space. We're a di we're on these screens, that's removing us from nature and the wonder. And we're stationary, so that's removing us from the vigor. So I almost look at it like is that we're at we're at war with civilization. I like I like Nova Cain at the dentist, I like Amazon Prime, I like all that stuff. But I also understand that I'm a human being, and in order to flourish, I need to do things that human beings are meant to do. And when we do that, as leaders, we're giving a mentor of mine often says, give from the overflow, not the reservoir. So you're giving from the overflow because you're coming from a place of being a full, flourishing human being, and the people around you are gonna feel that and they're gonna be inspired by that.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Vigor, wonder, fellowship. What I what I love about that too, to your point, the definition of happy, whether it's happy or fulfilled or whatever word, you got to have all three of those components. And those that are unhappy are probably missing at least one of those components. Look, I

When Injury Steals Your Vigor

SPEAKER_01 9:11

sit here today as I read through that simple three-step framework of kind of saying I need to check these three boxes. I mean, I shared a little bit with you before the before we hit the record button. Yeah. And last year I'm on my journey kind of doing Spartan races, I did a Spartan trifecta with a group of guys, fellowship, vigor, the discipline that was required to look at that, and certainly the wonder, could I ever do something like that? Yeah, you can get all three in one activity. Yeah, I get all three in that one year, in that full year, and suffered an injury though through that. And I actually just got surgery to repair hip issue that I had that came out in November last year. I've been dealing with pain for five months and recognized where I'm missing those components now. Like the vigor has gone away. I've not been able to exercise in a way that I want to or find that vigor in that space. We've stuck with the fellowship, which has been really good, and the wonder has been there with regards to my faith journey and those things like that. But not having that vigor has been something that's been missing for me this year. And I again, as I listened to you talk about it right then, you got to have all three of those components. Yeah. I can understand a little bit more now why I might be sitting around and I'll use frankly, I'll use the term sulking and interrupt, whatever that feels like, because I haven't been able to do that. You said in your book, like your vigor, you love to work out. We're gonna get to that. I I tend to look at it a little bit differently. I don't I don't I've never been able to say I love to work out, um, but I love having worked out. I love the feeling when I'm done kind of thing. And I can't get that feeling right now with that vigor.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah, that's you know, and that is nature. What our ancestors felt, they felt the endorphins with vigor, they felt the serotonin with wonder, they felt the oxytocin, the love hormone, with it's how they evolved, and we still feel that. We're still designed that way. So we may not do exactly what they did, but we can mimic the things they did to get those feelings. And and the last thing I'll say is look, I know you're longer in the tooth than me, I think. And so I say this with extreme caution, but I I have a torn labrum in my hip. I've had multiple injuries throughout my life and in ailments, and I can't I haven't been able to run in maybe like 15 years, but now I'll swear or I'll ride a bike. Like I and I can't do certain movements with those kettlebells. Like, I mean, I used to just be an absolute savage with them, and now I have to tone it. I'm 50, you know, I have to tone it down, and and and I can't do the things, and I address that in the book. It's like, you know, the way I got fellowship with my buddies when I was 21 is very different than it is now.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

And I'm just not up for the shenanigans and and things because I'm just older. And but you still this group has talked about we all because we're older.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I mean, we're late mid-50s to late 50s, and we're like, yeah, we're feeling funky after that half marathon, and uh, we got to find something different, whether it's a hike or whatever that is, to get that fellowship and to get that vigor. Yep. Yeah, yeah. So and again, those things that group is very important. We'll talk about that. Look, I I don't I want I want to dive into each one of those points a little bit in terms of your book without sharing the whole thing. Folks are gonna need to get a copy of your book because I think there's some great examples and stories that you wrote, and I can tell that I can see that history side of you and these stories that's really good. But

Pain That Forces The Real Question

SPEAKER_01 12:18

you said basically that you need a painful experience ultimately that leads to answering the question, what do I want? Was there a painful experience for you that kind of led you to even this framework or what what got you there? For sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, I I think awareness comes from from pain. You know, changes in your life for most people, at least for me and a lot of people I've observed, comes from that. So a moment in my life. So towards the end of my career in the Marine Corps, I was really frustrated. You know, so despite being deployed to Iraq, I mean, I was in Afghanistan in 2001. So right after 9-11, in other places throughout the world, you know, this may sound weird to people, but believe it or not, as a Marine, I wanted combat. I wanted to get shot at. Like desperately wanted to get shot at and prove myself as a warrior. You know, all these all these books behind me and all these things I had read throughout history. I wasn't naive to the suffering of war, probably a little naive, but I wasn't that naive. But as a young man, it's just in my nature. I I hate war and I'm anti-war, but all I do is read about war and I'm fascinated by it at the same time. And so I wasn't getting that. And when you're in the military, for those who are listening who are in the military, you're you're government property. I mean, you do what the needs of the Marine Corps. It's not what I want, it's what they need, and that's what you do. And as a result of that, in the bureaucracy, I just wasn't sent into certain scenarios, and I was leading a platoon in more benign environments throughout the world. And that really got to me, and it got to my ego, and I was suffering a lot so much that I started developing back pain. I didn't know why, but years later it was it was absolutely psychosomatic. And so I'm suffering when you have an expectation for your life and it isn't being met, it's really difficult. And um, I was suffering that. And eventually I was on a dirt road, literally driving on a dirt road in a pickup truck in Cuba, believe it or not. And it was the perfect metaphor because I had veered off the main road onto the dirt road at three in the morning, heading like literally towards a minefield. And I and I just screamed and exercised this out of me. And eventually I asked myself, what do I want? What can I do? You know, I I I had forgotten that lesson I learned at the prep school that I have agency, that I can do things in my life, that I don't have to be dependent on an institution or an organization to give me the life because it doesn't care. It's it's it's it's it's an organization, it's not even human. And at that point, I said to my I decided to leave the Marine Corps. And I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have written this book, I wouldn't have pursued my master's degree in history. All the things that I wanted to do, my career in private security, none of that would have happened, at least not at that point in my life, had it not been for the pain. And that released me because it made me ask this one simple question. What do you want? What do you want if nobody ever knew about it? What would you do if nobody, if there was no accolades? And it helped me separate myself from my ego and work towards who who I truly am. And that autonomy, like I said, without the pain, I would have just I think it's human nature just to, you know, you keep doing what you're doing. It's just easier than changing your life. And uh the pain made me, I couldn't go on doing that.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

So yeah, and you talked about that. I mean, I that's so good. Again, people change when the when the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of the change itself in terms of helping us get better.

unknown 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

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Joy Envy And Ignoring Should Heads

SPEAKER_01 16:24

You touched on something inside the book and you almost you almost went there here, but it's also thinking about what do I want? It's not necessarily what everybody else wants, and you may be mocked when that happens. You talked about that inside of your book about you know, what if you love so much that others actually mock it? Have you did you experience that when you said, I'm out of the Marines, I'm done, and I want to go study history?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah. There's a story in the book about Emerson when he leaves the church. You know, he was a he was a pastor in the and and uh and when you leave people behind in pursuing another thing, sometimes the people you leave behind resent you because they feel they have open wounds that you're pressing on by leaving what they care about, right? And another chapter in the book, the the author Ray Bradbury is a great term for this. He calls it joy envy. I just love that. And when you're exercising freedom and maybe doing something that that other person wishes they could do or wants to do, but doesn't, sometimes they resent you for that. So when I left the Marine Corps, some people were great. They were like, Yeah, you know, do your thing. You you you served eight years, but for the career guys, eight years isn't long enough. You know, you need to do 20.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, you need 20, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, they're like just like you gotta do what they're doing because that reinforces what they're doing. And we've all met people like that. Whatever they're doing is the thing to do, and if you're doing it, it's the wrong decision. So I recognized that that was their ego, it had nothing to do with me. And you know, I just I trusted what I felt. I I've always I've tried to live this way. And when when it wasn't a match anymore in the Marine Corps and I had to leave, I felt that and then I did. And then I asked, what do I want to do? Everyone's like, You should go get your MBA or or whatever. And I'm like, but I love history, I'd love to master that. Well, you can't do anything with that. Well, we'll see. You know what I mean? But I know that gaining mastery in something is an investment in yourself, and you gain intangibles. So I followed my heart, got the history, went and studied history for two years, didn't listen to the naysayers, and then my success in private security, you know, I became a bodyguard, literally. And but there's there's a lot of writers and there's a lot of bodyguards, there's not a lot who do both. And so I found a niche for myself and my vehicle for success at the company where I worked, Gavin De Becker and Association, who and associates whose founder is a best-selling author, my writing became the vehicle for my success. So if I had not followed my heart and gone and gained some mastery in history and research and writing, I wouldn't have been successful in a completely unrelated field. And I'm glad I didn't listen to the people who who took it upon themselves to tell me what to do with my life.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I I refer to them as should heads. They tell you what you should, you should do this, you should do that. And so don't be a should head. Just kind of listen through and understand. I I'd love that in terms of no pun intended, about finding what you love and then ultimately uh becoming the best at it, becoming a master of it, and making it a lot of things. That's right. It takes work, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:23

It's not like, oh, you just kind of do what you want or whatever. No, you focus and you I worked my ass off in grad school becoming better, and it and it paid off. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Hey,

David Lee Roth And Relentless Vigor

SPEAKER_01 19:33

and I I knew as well, and in fact, when I was sharing kind of your story a little bit with my wife before we did the podcast, she said, Oh, he was the child of the 80s. Oh, yeah. You referenced not only historical figures in your book like Patton and you just mentioned Ray Bradbury and things like that, uh Michael DeMontan. I don't even know how to say Michelle De Montaigne.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Uh but you also like the the profound leaders, David Lee Roth. Yeah, Manhattan. Yeah, I mean Def Leppard is a child. What and Def Leppard, what did David David Lee Roth, what does he have to do with vigor? Everything.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

David, so yeah, guilty. I love 80s hard rock, grew up in the 80s watching the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

That's not hard rock, David Lee Roth and Def Leppard. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Okay, well, it's it's you know, good times rock and roll. Let's agree on that. And so, you know, I always music has always been inspiring to me. I I've never tried to overintellectualize my musical taste. I I'm all about feeling that that my entire existence in this life is one because I think that defines our existence, good, bad, and many in between. And that, you know, Roth always, I just found him such a peculiar, interesting human being because he he no one was like him before, and then everyone was like him after. And so I I I started reading about Van Halen and I love their music. And I found out David Lee Roth, he grew up Jewish in Indiana, he had leg braces on his legs. Like this is the guy who used to jump off the the drum riser and was incredibly athletic, and he had all these challenges, and and uh he moved his parents, his his dad was an optometrist. They moved to Pasadena, and the timing was perfect, right? It was like the late 60s and what was going on and pop culture, and so eventually he starts you know, he's a good-looking guy, he he's gregarious, he has these things, probably stemming from feeling insignificant as youth. I can identify with that of becoming loud and and wanting the spotlight. But he had one problem as an aspiring singer, he couldn't really sing, and I that I found that fascinating. One of the most famous lead singers in of that era in rock and roll couldn't really sing. How did he become who he is? And it was sheer vigor. He's like, Okay, I'm gonna try to get my singing up. I'm gonna take voice lessons, I'm gonna exercise, I'm gonna do martial arts, I'm gonna take dance lessons, I'm gonna hustle, hustle, hustle. I'm gonna find the best musicians and somehow get them to agree to be in my band. And he found Alex and Eddie Van Halen, who were gifted, incredible musicians, and they hated him. But he overcame that their hatred to be like, you need me, and I need you. And he just wouldn't quit. People threw beer bottles at him because you know he dressed in flamboyant ways. It was all these beer drinking guys. And then you look at David Lee Roth, and he's in these videos, he's wearing like assless chaps and all this crazy thing. And who are his fans? It's a bunch of like blue-collar beer drinking guys. So like he converted them to his will. And he converted the Van Halen brothers to his will. He converted the fact that people said he couldn't sing, it didn't matter, and he still got signed and became this platinum front man. And and that is vigor. The odds are against you. Everybody's talking shit about you, rooting against you, and he just wouldn't listen. And he put his head down and he became a rock star. It's a fast it it's just and and did it with incredible style.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, that's it's so good. I mean, look, folks, the the book, you gotta get a copy of the book, and we'll ask you at the end here a little bit about where you want folks to go and get that. And but the it's full of stories like that, both historical figures, again, going back into the 1600s as well, and uh rock singers like David Lee Roth and and uh Def Leppard, which are really good. And

Building Brotherhood With Point View Crew

SPEAKER_01 23:27

that you start talking about David Lee Roth, or excuse me, about Def Leppard really in the section on fellowships. We talked about vigor, we talked about kind of wonder and and loving what you do. And the fellowship side, I think it's something, especially men today, miss big time. And you talked about this term, the point of view crew. Tell me a little bit about that, but why is fellowship so important to leaders and to men today and you know how we miss it?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

I think, you know, historically, barbarians, let's go all the way back, they gathered around the fire, the men spent time together. The World War II generation came back from war and they joined, you know, the Elks Club and bowling leagues and and all it community was very important. But as technology increased, the advent of the television, the advent of cable TV, the VCR, all the way to where we are now, it's pulling people away from their front porch, right? From their neighbors. And and then the way that work today is completely it's not nine to five anymore, it seems like. It seems like it's always around. It's pulling people away from from friends and spending time with friends. And then by the time you're done and it's Friday, you just want to lay on the couch because you're exhausted, right? And that happened to me in my 30s when I was really grinding in my career. I suddenly realized that I didn't have any friends in Los Angeles. I had friends from the military or or or or college, you know, that were living elsewhere. And it was, like I said, I wasn't happy because I had the vigor and I was still reading, I had the wonder and stuff like that, but I didn't have the fellowship. So I I live the name of my street is Point View Street. So I I I called up my wife's friends, boyfriends, and husbands who I didn't even really know that well, but I knew a little bit about them. I had met them here or there at like a party or something with my wife, and I was like, hey, I'd love to have you guys over for dinner, and we could just, you know, I'm a I'm an avid reader, and from what I know, you are too, and just bring a book over and we can just discuss it. And it was six guys, and then now I do it close to every quarter, and I've had as many as 25 guys. Oh, so it and and and what it developed is you know, we meet up and then we go in out back around a fire, and we go around the horn, and each guy gets a few minutes to not only like share the book, but the best part what's going on in your life. Good things, bad things. And what I learned with men is when women aren't around and men leave ego at the door, they're vulnerable with each other. And it feels natural to be sharing this with another group of men because they sort of understand what you're probably going through and they're supportive. And since I started doing that, so many at the end of the night are like, I needed this, thank you. Because they were in the same situation as me. And even their wives and girlfriends are like, He needed this, thank you. Like, they don't resent the fact that I'm not inviting women, and um, they probably don't want to talk about history for three hours either. But these guys, and I've had men from all walks of life in a lot of ways, just share incredibly vulnerable things about like guys getting emotional, and it's sort of a sanctuary where they can do that. And so that's the point view crew.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, love that. There's so good, I got a buddy, I don't know, enforcement listen just to that part. I think we'll get a clip of that. Folks, go back and listen to that. He started, he literally built a fire pit in the backyard of his house house with that vision where he was just gonna invite men to sit around that fire pit uh and talk about that and the importance of that. Uh men, men from his neighborhood, men from his church, and things like that. So I I I can see, and again, you've been talking about it grew from like six to you know twenty-five or thirty. Like there's there's a difference there where folks be like, hey, nobody's gonna show up. You know, the distraction, the the uh critic, whoever's easy to flip. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So well done.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

They what I learned is there's a real thirst for it from other men. So anyone out there listening, start your own club, start your own salon, whatever you're into, if it's sports, if it's history, if it's whatever, you know, find people who maybe share that interest. Because as men, we always need a ball, right? We always need something that's right that it's about, but it's not.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

There's a basketball in the room, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

With your buddies and you're playing hoops or whatever, but then before and after you're talking about real life things, and that's you know, that that's how I I did it with this.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Speaking of ball, which position did you play for the Naval Cam?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

You're not gonna believe it. I was an offensive lineman. No, you're right. I won't believe it. Yeah, I know. Everyone was like, what were you like a safety? I was like, no, I played guard. I used to weigh 280 pounds. Yeah, I was recruited as a tight end, and uh they did away, the new offense came in with the new coaching staff, they did away with the tight end, and uh I found out that it was easier to gain weight than to become a better athlete. So good.

Passing It On And Final Charge

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yeah, I'm I'm curious again, so we kind of even tie it tie a bow around the book itself. You know, when a when a reader, I talk about it being the book test, when a reader puts it down or puts it up on a shelf like the one sitting beside you, and they see the binding of that book, okay, you know, a year later, what do you want them to think uh or do after they've read your book and and certainly after they see it a year later as well? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

I hope what they can do is recommend it to a friend because the the aim of the book is inspiration. And the more people I can inspire, and these are stories that I'm inspired by stories from history, stories from music and popular culture, and even uh some stories from my own life. And it's the aim is to inspire and remind people how to live. I'm not telling anyone how to live, I'm just saying the this is nature, this is evolution. And if you don't move your body and you don't get outside, you're probably not gonna be happy. It's not my rule book, it's just my observations. And and hopefully when they recommend that, you know, they see the spine and they're like, Yeah, the barbarian and you. Vigor Wonder Fellowship, a simple three-word message. Three words, yeah. They they'll pass that on to a friend who maybe could use a little bit of inspiration to live that way.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Well, uh as after this, we're re we're recording this just a couple weeks before it comes out on July 6th. I'm just gonna put a date in there and mess it up, but that's okay because it doesn't really matter. But it's probably gonna be released after that date. Where do you want folks to go and and get a copy of your book? And where do you want them to go to connect with you as well?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah, so barbarianinu.com, they can find me. Instagram ed underscore henman H-I-N-M-A-N, they can find me. And on Amazon, if you if you you know, hopefully when you type in the barbarian in you, you're gonna find the book. And if you go to the website too, there's you know, they'll they'll there they'll be a link that you can get directly to Amazon. And uh yeah, that's the best way.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah, great barbarian you.com. And you also got a blog on there that folks can follow as well that you're doing because you're a writer.

unknown 30:08

All right.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah, I yeah, I have 70 plus pieces on there free for anyone who wants to read them and uh really tapping into history and and I believe history's fuel. It in history inspires when I look at the positive attribute I I realize it's positive, negative, that it's very nuanced, but when I focus on the positive attributes of of a of someone from history, it's inspiring and inspiring, and then it I do things and inspires me. So that it for me it's fuel, it's not just feeding a curious.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

That's the key and inspires to action. I just I was listening, in fact, I was listening to one of uh our mutual friend Nick's from BookTinkers post today on Instagram. And he said if you read a book and all you do is put it back on the shelf and do nothing about it, it goes from education just to entertainment. It really just is entertainment, and you need to take that from education to action, which creates wisdom, uh, which I just thought was a you know really good introduction. That's really well said uh quote from Nick uh to make that happen. And you mentioned even recommend a book. I'm a big fan of sharing a book. So when you buy one, folks, buy two with the plans of sharing it with somebody as well, so they put a copy in their hands too. We'll put the links in the show notes to make that happen. Ed, this has been a great conversation. I know we could talk a lot longer. I want to honor your time and what we've got going on with the weekend coming up, but I want to ask you one more question. You get kind of the last word here. It's the last question that I always ask my first-time guests. And you may have already said it, but it's you know, it's compiling this together for you. I'm gonna give you a billboard, put it out there in LA, man. A bunch of people are gonna see it out there in LA in SoCal or wherever you want to put it. But what's the what's the one message you would put on that billboard and why do you put that message on?

SPEAKER_02 31:44

It's gotta be living with vigor, wonder, and fellowship. Those, you know, as you said, you know, those three boxes. It just reminds people. You're not you're not a cog for production, you're not a grain a drain for consumption, you're not a pond for government. You are flesh and blood. You are a human being, you're not a means to an end. You are the end. And this is how we're designed to live and as a result to flourish. Vigor, wonder, fellowship. Get it, whatever activities you're into, but get it.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Get it, go get it. Love it. Ed, I've truly enjoyed this conversation. I want to thank you for adding value to the listeners of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Wish you the best with the book and everything else going forward. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Thanks so much, John. It was a real pleasure. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Great conversation with Ed Hinman there. The Barbarian and You. I think it's gonna be a great book. Vigor, wonder, and fellowship. I think it's gonna be a phenomenal read. I'm looking forward to getting my hard copy in the mail when it comes out. And uh, I'm sure you will as well. Hey, if you like what you heard, share it with somebody who else needs to hear it. It's important to get it in the hands of as many listeners as we can. We get to get folks listening in and engaged with the uncommon leader. If you haven't already, love to have a review from you as well on the platform that you listen. Until next time, go and grow champions.