Read Less, Apply More: How Top CEOs Execute Frameworks | Nick Hutchison | Episode 236

How do executive leaders, CEOs, and "Leaders of Leaders" escape the operational grind and build autonomous teams? It begins by upgrading the internal software of the mind.

In this episode of The Uncommon Leader Podcast, host John Gallagher welcomes back Nick Hutchison, author of Rise of the Reader and founder of BookThinkers. Nick shares his personal evolution from an unmotivated student to building a powerhouse agency that serves elite authors and high-performing leaders.

Together, John and Nick tackle the alarming statistics behind falling adult reading habits, the cognitive risks of over-relying on AI for executive decision-making, and how leaders can replace digital noise with actionable business wisdom. Nick introduces his framework for applying Parkinson’s Law to Reading, ensuring that every book consumed is tied to a specific operational deadline and implementation target. They also discuss strategic relationship building, outlining how providing unconditional value over five years established long-term partnerships with A-list industry figures like Jim Kwik.

🚀 𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐘𝐨𝐮’𝐥𝐥 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧:

•Mental Software Updates: Why long-form physical reading remains the premier vehicle for updating leadership frameworks and adapting to modern workforce realities.

•The AI Atrophy Trap: How over-outsourcing basic thinking to generative tools diminishes fundamental executive reasoning and recall capabilities.

•Time Replacement vs. Time Finding: How replacing 15 minutes of daily screen time unlocks 12–15 fully implemented books per year.

•Parkinson’s Law for Learning: Setting time-bound targets for taking action so learning directly drives operational efficiency rather than becoming passive entertainment.

•Value-First Networking: The mechanics of building elite executive relationships by giving unprompted value over years without immediate expectations.

➡️Resourced Mentioned:

📌 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡  Nick Hutchison 👇
➡️ LinkedIn (primary): https://www.linkedin.com/in/bookthinkers/
➡️ Website:https://bookthinkers.com/
➡️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BookThinkers
➡️ Book: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0CHN5G33H

Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.  Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode.  One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review.  You can do that on  Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.  

Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ?  If you would be interested in having me discuss  1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you.  Click this link  to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)

Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

Connect with me 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Replace Screen Time With Reading

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And so instead of trying to find more time, just replace some of that low impact activity, 15, 30 minutes a day, with reading. Not all of it. I'm not saying shut your phone off and never use it again, although I wish I could do that. But replace a little bit of that time that you're wasting on meaningless activity that does not disturb you in the future with reading a book that solves a problem or builds a skill or satisfies a curiosity or makes you more interesting. And I promise if you could build that habit over time by replacing time instead of trying to find it, you'll be better off.

Meet Nick Hutchison And BookThinkers

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Most importantly to me, I consider him a friend, and he wrote the foreword to my book that just came out recently, Eight Common Practices of Uncommon Leaders. I was very grateful for that, and he's been an influence in that book. I've attended a couple of his events. He's a seven-figure marketing company that helps authors and podcasters market their books to get them out to a bigger community. He's the founder and CEO of BookThers, a seven-figure book marketing agency that reaches over a million people every single month, helping top authors like Jim Quick, we'll talk about him a little bit, Alex Armozzi, Grant Cardone, and Vanessa Van Edwards amplify their message. He's also the host of a top 2% podcast under the same name as his company, BookTinkers, Life Changing Books, and as I mentioned, author of the best-selling book Rise of the Reader. Now, we're gonna talk today about something else he's had going on and a passion he has about really bringing book thinking back to the front. With the advent of AI and making things really challenging, he still sees a need for books in our community. And we're here to talk about that this week. So let's welcome to the show Nick Hutchison. Nick Hutchison, welcome back to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. It's been a while on the podcast, but I've seen you several times. How you been doing, friend? I've been doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

About 100 episodes later, from what I hear.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, almost two years later, since we at least had uh together on a conversation like this, but we've been together a couple times since then, and those are things we'll talk about during this conversation. Uh, I touched on it, you know. I'm very grateful, and I wanted to thank you kind of live as well for writing the forwards in my book, Eight Common Practices of Uncommon Leaders. We ain't gonna talk about that as much as we're gonna talk about you and what you've got going on and your passion for reading. But let's jump right into the kind of context behind

Why Americans Read Less

SPEAKER_01 2:48

it. And you talk about this 84% problem. Only 16% of Americans read daily, meaning eighty-four percent read nothing at all. Why is this drop-off happening in our community, in our in our reading community? And what what what do you have to say about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I have so much to say about it. I think I think the reading decline, I think it has many different starting points, and I think they all kind of jumble together. But here are some of the basic ones. These devices that we call cell phones, they steal so much of our attention. And the the apps within them, specifically the social media apps, they're consistently re-engineered to take more and more of our attention. In fact, I saw yesterday that Meta had to pay a $17 billion settlement for childhood addiction inside of some of their apps. And so, yeah, we're fight it. I mean, it's tough to put down a phone and choose to read something constructive, like a nonfiction business or personal development book. But I always try to project out into the future and ask myself some version of, hey, when I wake up on January 1st, 2027, will I be better off having read and implemented this book that's sitting in front of me, even though it's a little daunting and even though I'm not going to get hit with the same level of dopamine as my phone, or if I scroll on social media. And I know the answer, John. I know that I will be happy if I read the book, run the mile, do the extra workout, answer an extra email, send an extra DM. Those are the things that grow my life and make Nick in the future happy. But we struggle so much with delayed gratification because of these phones.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

You know, as I think about that, I this quote that came to my mind as you're saying that we are the same person five years from now, or today as we'll be five years from now, with the exception of the books that we read and the people that we interact with. I think that was Charles Tremendous Jones that kind of put that quote out there. But I I would imagine he he said that before the the advent, if you will, of these little squares, computer squares that fit in our pocket and and that we look at all the time. But you're exactly right. It's gonna be those books and the people that we interact with, and that's going to make a difference in your life as well. I know that. I can see it behind you in terms of the books that you have. I still always love the color coding. And I saw someone else who did that recently that I think is part of BookTinkers that I think stole your idea, but it's really good. Anyway, you weren't always a reader though either.

Nick’s Origin Story As A Reader

SPEAKER_01 5:15

I mean, you what what has been your journey uh being a reader and turned you into this person who loves books and and who writes books and frankly brings all these people into this book club we're gonna talk about as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I am so obsessed with books, but as you brought up, I was not always much of a reader. When I was in high school, I was more of the athlete, not really much of the academic. And so I spent a lot of time playing football and wrestling and going to the gym after class. Not a lot of time doing my homework. In fact, I'm famous for taking AP calculus but getting a 0% homework average because I was told that I could still pass the class without doing any of my homework. So I was that kid that was always capable, but I was never motivated to do the classroom style work that I was given as a student. And a lot of that behavior followed me into college. I mean, for the first few years of college, I was that same version except a little bit older, and I also started to party a little bit. But everything changed for me, John, when I took an internship going into my senior year of college at a local software company. It was a sales internship. And my boss, Kyle, he would put on podcasts when we would go on local business trips. We'd jump in the car. I think he was sick and tired of hearing me talk about how great I was and how much fun I was having at college and how I was gonna rule the world when I graduated. So he would press play on these business podcasts where successful people would show up and share how they became successful. Number one, I was shocked that these conversations were free because the world's most successful people were giving away all of their secrets. But number two, I started to notice that a lot of these people were giving at least some credit for their success to the books that they had read and implemented. That's an important point. And so I went to my local Barnes Noble. I grabbed a stack of 10 books that summer going into my senior year, and the rest is history. I went from non-reader to reader almost overnight. And that has been kind of the primary part of my identity, at least as far as my personal brand goes, that the world gets to see ever since.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Well, that's really cool. And your organization today is helping folks who are in that space as well. You're helping authors, especially new authors, get their books out so that folks will read them. I think it's I just think it's really cool. I think back in you know, even on my days as well, I know I had a similar attitude toward reading after college. I'm almost walking across the stage and saying, That's it, I'm done, I don't have to read any more books. The rest I've arrived after I walked across the stage to get my diploma degree. And uh, you know, little did I know that I'd have a mentor who would bring me, much like you were talking about the podcast, bring me a book to read on uh leadership that I didn't even know how to spell leadership, and it just changed the trajectory

Leaders Stay Relevant By Reading

SPEAKER_01 8:00

for me as well. You know, you mentioned leadership, uh, you mentioned readers, and there's the old saying that not all readers are leaders, but certainly those who are leaders have to be readers. Do you agree with that? Do you follow that same thought process?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I do, absolutely. Especially because leadership styles have changed so much over the last couple of decades, and I think the best way to update your programming as a leader, especially with this new generation of workers coming into play, is by reading and implementing books. You know, I I love to think of our brains as running software programs, and sometimes those programs are out of date and they need to be updated. And I still believe the best way to update those programs is long-form physical paper content. And so as amazing leaders make changes in their leadership philosophies, test things out over the course of a couple of decades, and then consolidate all of that wisdom into a couple hundred page book, we get to read that book for $20 in a few hours of our time and update our programming. That's how we stay ahead and relevant by reading. And I know it sounds funny, physical paper books, but I genuinely believe that we get more from those books, and the data suggests that we get more from those books than we do audio or ebooks. And so, yeah, I do believe in that saying. Not all readers are leaders, for sure, but all leaders should be readers because that's how you stay relevant.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Absolutely. There's no doubt

The No Time To Read Problem

SPEAKER_01 9:28

about it. And even to get some leaders, especially I coach many of them, said, oddly enough, I just don't have time to read. How do you answer that question? I know you hear that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I usually, if I'm in person with somebody, I'll say, hey, pull out your phone for a minute, go to your settings, click on screen time, and tell me how much time you spend on your phone every day. You know, the average American adult spends over six hours a day on their phone. Six hours. That's crazy. Scrolling on social media, answering text messages, watching YouTube or Netflix, playing chess. Like me, I play a lot of chess on my phone, and we just waste our time. And so instead of trying to find more time, just replace some of that low impact activity, 15, 30 minutes a day, with reading. Not all of it. I'm not saying shut your phone off and never use it again, although I wish I could do that, but replace a little bit of that time that you're wasting on meaningless activity that does not serve you in the future with reading a book that solves a problem or builds a skill or satisfies a curiosity or makes you more interesting. And I promise if you could build that habit over time by replacing time instead of trying to find it, you'll be better off.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

So good. I know I remember reading your book, Rise of the Reader, a couple years back. I saw we ended up conversation the first time. And you had a simple math equation that really, hey, you want to read uh 12 to 15 books a year, uh, which doesn't, you know, seems like a lot to people. Just understand it's only 10 pages a day. If the if the leadership books that we read are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 to 200 page, 220 pages, just 10 pages a day is going to get you to 12 to 15 books. That math is very simple, and 10 pages a day is very doable versus thinking, how am I going to read 12 books this year? That can be vo very overwhelming. You've been very good at that. Now, reading in the age of AI.

Reading In The Age Of AI

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So the last time since last time we spoke on the podcast, that's probably been the most significant technological advancement to say the least in our time in that span. And what do you think about that with regards to how that's impacting long-form reading and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I read a stat and I just pulled it up on my um on my other monitor here, John. I read a stat yesterday. A study revealed that after four months of frequent Chat GPT use, users experienced a 47% drop in neural connectivity and a marked inability to recall content that they had just generated. So here's the problem. We are outsourcing our thinking to these platforms. That's like outsourcing going to the gym, you know, to your phone or something like that. We have to flex these muscles. And I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that about six months ago, I realized I was having a really tough time writing an email response without AI. Because for the prior year, I had been dumping call notes into Chat GPT and having it format my email responses on sales calls and partnership calls and for podcast show note descriptions and everything like that. And I lost my ability. I mean, it had atrophied so much that I had almost completely lost my ability to write an email response. So I said, I'm no longer using AI to write my email responses. And I was able over time to build that skill back up. And it's embarrassing because these are fundamental human behaviors that require very little thought. I mean, yes, your AI can write an email, but you should be able to write an email too. I also believe the same is true with these books. I mean, we're looking for shortcuts, these answers that were being given from Google, which is now really just AI spinning a response back to you, it requires very little reading, and then therefore we don't get a true understanding of what we're actually learning. Before I kind of pause my little tangent here, I'll share that one of my favorite books of all time is called The Art of Learning by Joshua Waitskin. Joshua was both an international chess grandmaster and some type of mixed martial artist champion. I forget the discipline, but one intellectual, one physical. And he talked about studying subjects so intensely, so intensely, that his subconscious could take over that information and then look for opportunities in the real world to implement it. So while he was playing chess, he didn't have to think about every single chess move. His subconscious could analyze all of it a lot faster than his conscious mind could, and it could make the move. Or in the middle of some mixed martial arts tournament, let's just say jujitsu, he doesn't have to think about every single opportunity where his body could move to counter the attack or something like that. He would just do it because his subconscious understood the game well enough. And so I think what's missing when we outsource our thinking to AI is we fail to actually understand the information that we're consuming. Therefore, a couple of days later, a couple of weeks later, we have to go back to the AI to ask it the same questions because we retained nothing. We never understood it. And I just feel like as humans, we're becoming like uh orchestrators of AI instead of leveraging our own brains. And I I hate to see it.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

First, thank you for the the uh the depth there in terms of looking at it because there are so many different ways that AI and the and the to your point, the most basic way we started was just help me rewrite this email so that it sounds better. Then you talked about it now. ChatGPT is set up that it can read your emails and make a suggestion. Do you want me to reply for you? And yet I'm so tempted to watch that in in Microsoft Copilot as I use it, and like, okay, go ahead and draft it for me. I'm like, no, no, just kind of it there's an authenticity that is dangerous inside of that space. I heard you touch on as well about outsourcing our thinking. Kind of a mutual friend Roy Vaden's podcast that we have. He interviewed uh who would be a close friend of yours as well, Jim Quick, on his most recent podcast that I listened to while walking around last night. And Jim Quick clearly has a lot to say on this matter as well. And he's in the space of I want to make our brains work better. He talks about that. When I use his name, a couple things come to my mind. Again, you've you've developed a pretty good relationship with him. He was a two-time speaker at your most recent book thinkers conference, and really cool. And one of the ways that you did that, switching away from books a little bit though, uh, was your ability to build a relationship with him.

Build Relationships By Giving First

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Some of the uh what I read, uh, what I learned about is that you know you gave him kind of free promotion across your channels, you know, a lot of times over five years. How can you know leaders and entrepreneurs recognize that that type of relationship building can bear fruit in the w in the future, which it seems to be bearing fruit for you now?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I'll start by saying that I recognize that a celebrity like Jim Quick, there's a lot of demand for him and his time and his thinking and his brand. Everybody wants to leverage it, everybody wants to pay for it. And so, you know, if I'm in Jim's shoes, there is an opportunity cost to spending time with or allowing people to leverage your brand. And so you have to be really selective on who you choose to work with. And uh a mentor of mine way back in the day, when I was asking about mentorship, he told me that one of the questions he hates to get is, hey, can I take you out for coffee? Because you think as the mentee trying to extract information that by buying somebody a coffee, all of a sudden that's some goodwill. What you don't realize is you're taking a lot of their time and you're also asking for their time for the price of a coffee, which is usually five to ten dollars, and that person might be charging ten thousand dollars for a consultation. And so instead, I learned 10 years ago that you have to show up and provide value for free for as long as you can. And that's what I tried to do with Jim. Long story short, I interviewed Jim on my podcast back in 2020 when he was originally launching Limitless. And I I recognize being in the author industry that there's this moment in time right before a book launch, a big book launch with high expectations, where every author is a little insecure on how the book's going to perform. And so that's a moment of vulnerability where if you offer the right types of free value, somebody like Jim might be willing to spend time with somebody like me who had no audience at the time. So Jim says yes, he comes on the podcast, I read his book, I loved it, and I promoted it consistently for five straight years without asking for anything in return. Really, I did. So when I got a text from Jim one day and we jumped on a call and he invited me to speak at his last event, it was because of that goodwill. It was because I contributed to that relationship 50 times without any expectation of ever getting anything in return. But because I did that, I was top of mind for Jim when he thought about who would be a good fit for a panel on the love of reading. And then of course, when I went to Jim's event, this is also something I'd love to share to the audience. Jim had a three-day event out in San Diego with some of the world's biggest names. I mean A-lister after A-lister after A-lister after A-lister. I was the first person into the speaker green room on day one, and I was the last person to leave on day three. And his team even said something to me like, Wow, I can't believe you're here on day one. You're not speaking until day three. I thought, of course I'm going to be here. I'm supporting Jim. I want to be in the audience, clapping, having fun. I want to ask questions, I want to participate. That's why I'm here. And so Jim saw that, and I think it created some goodwill. And uh so when I asked him to speak at my event, he did say no a couple of times. But eventually I was able to kind of reposition it where it was giving him more value than I was extracting from his brand. And eventually he said yes. And now I do believe, you know, I've developed that friendship with him where it's a little bit different, it's a little bit more casual. But for five plus years, all I did was try to fill his cup. I never expected anything in return.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

That's so good. And I again, I think there's just recognition that if we want to get something, we need to give. I mean, it's it's as simple as that, and we build that account, if you will, from a relationship standpoint by giving so much away. You've been a great model to me in that space as well, Nick. And so speaking of Jim Quick and what you have going on, you have I'm just gonna jump

Launching The Read Less Apply More Club

SPEAKER_01 19:49

right into it. You've the the latest thing you've got going is this book club with the motto read less, apply more. Tell me about this book club. It's on your hat as well. Tell me, tell me about the book club that you're getting started and what's behind that.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Well, in 2023, I launched my book, Rise of the Reader, and I wrote that book for my audience of readers on social media, which at the time was in the tens of thousands and now it's in the hundreds of thousands. But at BookThinkers, like from a business perspective, I think we have almost 20 full-time team members now, and all of them are dedicated to serving authors. We help authors promote and market their books, we help them build social media content, get booked on podcasts, etc. Yet 99% of my following, they are readers. They are looking to read and implement books more effectively. And I haven't really served them since that book came out three years ago. And so I've I've kind of had this itch in the back of my mind for the last year or so to launch a book club. And I found the right time, the right time is now. And so we're partnering with School, S-K-O-O-L, school, Alex Hormozy's community and course platform. And we're launching this monthly book club focused on personal development and business books. Everybody in the club, once per month, is going to implement a book together. And through that process, I'm going to teach my reading philosophies, how to set a strong intention or a goal for the book that you're reading, how to read effectively and identify the notes worth taking, how to implement the material into your life so that it actually creates change. And then on the back end each month, we're going to meet with the author live and do a fireside chat QA. So, Jim, who we've been talking about for a little while, he was gracious enough to say yes and partner with me for the launch of this book club. So in the month of September, we're focusing on Limitless Daily. And then in October, we are going to work on implementing a new book by Vanessa Van Edwards called Conversation. And she runs a behavior lab called the Science. Of people. It's amazing. She studies everything related to human beings. And this next one, conversation, I believe, is super important, especially as we do more and more virtual conversations and less and less in person. So the whole idea here is if you stick with us for a year, you will read and implement keyword implement 12 books each year, which is so much more than the average person does. You highlighted that only 16% of US adults read daily. Well, how about this? Only 51% sorry, only 49% even read a full book each year. So it's pretty crazy, and we're gonna help solve that problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I can't wait. I'm glad to be a part of it. Can't wait to uh learn more, and we're gonna put a link in the show notes as well so that folks can learn more about this book club. I think it's something that's gonna be really bit really powerful.

Sponsor Break Own It Coaching

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Are you tired of being tired? I know I was. That's when I was glad to find own it coaching. Now my resting heart rate's down 20%, sleep quality up three hundred percent. You know, I just ran my first Spartan race at age fifty six. I feel better than I ever have. So if you're ready to stop settling and start owning your own health, go to coachjohngallagher.com forward slash own it and set up a free call with the own it coaching team. That's coachjohngallagher.com forward slash own it. Now let's get back to the episode. You

Parkinson’s Law For Reading Implementation

SPEAKER_01 23:24

mentioned, uh I think you said the key word, implementation as well. Implement some of the things that we read. And you had a term in in your first book and you talk about it often, Parkinson's Law for Reading. I love that concept. Tell me more about that, tell the listeners more about not just me, but tell the listeners more about Parkinson's law for reading.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Sure. I love I love to set SMART goals for every book that I read. It's a big part of my philosophy. And the T in SMART stands for time or time bound. So when we set a goal, we want to give it a deadline. Parkinson's law states that a task will expand to the amount of time that we give it. We all remember being in grade school, we have a project due in two weeks on Monday morning and we wait until Sunday the night before. Hey mom, hey dad, can you buy me a poster board at CVS, right? I've got to get it done by tomorrow morning. Sorry, I forgot. That's human behavior. It happens to all of us, it's totally natural. What most people fail to do though, is when they read a book like Limitless Daily or Conversation by Vanessa Van Edwards, they don't set a deadline to take action on their goal. And so if you don't set a deadline, the task will expand forever until you die. And so there are so many books that all of us can think of where we read the book, we got all excited about the information that was inside of it. And then when I ask people, I'll say something like, Hey John, what's your favorite book of all time? You'll tell me, and then I'll say, Great, how did it change your life? What did you implement? You'll go, I don't really know. Can't really think of anything, right? And so that's what we're going to do. We're going to set deadlines to take action so that we force ourselves to implement the information more effectively.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So good. I I love that taking taking action from it is so important because as you've said before, you can read a lot of different books and when you don't take action, they're just entertainment. Entertainment's okay to a certain extent. But again, if you want to grow personally, you've got to take some action from it and implement or execute on those ideas that you read about. And I loved your the goal process that you talked about in your book that said you know, choose right before you even read it, sets your intention on what you want before you come out of that book, one or two intentions. So that's gonna be cool. And I'm sure you're gonna teach us that in the in the book club and more of those concepts as you go

Walk Up Songs And Hat Sticker Debate

SPEAKER_01 25:35

forward. Okay, let's have some fun. Um a little bit about you and uh the folks that get to know you a little bit better. You've been getting all kinds of opportunities to uh step on stages now, which are really cool, and be in front of larger groups. When I was at your book thinkers conference, this was something that was there with those individuals that came up. So many stories, great stories to hear. Uh, as folks who read my book, they'll know that the stories and the chapters that were in that book were born out of the conversations that we had at the first book thinkers conference I attended in 2025. But everybody who had opportunity to speak had a walk-up song that they had identified. What's your what's your walk-up song that you use when you're speaking in front of a big group to get you ready to go?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

That's a great question. Well, at the Bookthinkers event, we had that little jingle that our DJ made, DJ Cliff West, Book Thinkers Live 2026. When I was in high school, John, we actually had to pick a a song in our like graduation book that was listed under our name. And this is this is not representative of who I am today, but this is the walkout song that I had for a long time, which was a song called Pretty Boy Swag by a Soldier Boy. And uh goodness. It's it's an inappropriate song. It it's just a you know, it's a moment in time that I thought was funny, and so pretty boy swag was the walkout song for Nick Hutcheson back in the day. I actually haven't been asked to pick one at any of the events that I've been speaking at recently, but if I had to pick a walkout song, it might be Gratitude by Brandon Lake. That's a song that I've been loving recently. So good.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I actually uh you say that I'm using a Kingdom Business Leader Summit at church hosting with about 50 leaders, and we did some worship music beforehand. They won't let me sing or do it as karaoke, but I said they said, What do you want to hear? I said, There's only one song I want to hear for sure. Just make sure you play gratitude by Brandon Lake. Oh wow, I just got goosebumps. Yeah, which is just a really, really great song. Now, if Brandon Lake, who doesn't live too far from us, uh, could be there, that'd be good. I you probably know him. If not, we can figure out that way. I've had his dad, Mac, on the podcast a couple times. Uh just kind of uh great story there in terms of meeting him as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

But one of my friends, Justin, just wrote a book called Holy Health, and uh Brandon wrote the foreword to the book. So yeah, I'm trying to get him on the Book Thinkers podcast. Uh Holy Health.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

You gotta get him on the Book Thinkers Podcast, Justin. He's been on we talked about Holy Health on the Uncommon Leader podcast with him. He's great. He's been my coach for a couple years to help me sleep better as well. So that's been something that's been really he's a great, great guy, and he knows Brandon well exactly. Okay. Second uh question, learn more about you. This is funny, it came off your social media recently. I know been some heavy stuff about reading, but I gotta ask you about something funny so that the folks know. You wore a new hat and you forgot to take the sticker off the bill. Now you've taken the sticker off of that bill. I noticed that now beforehand. But in the street wear streetwear and the book nerd world, what's your official stance? Are you gonna, in the future with your new ones, are you gonna keep that sticker on for authenticity? That's kind of like their you know, their wear, their sign, or is it gonna be coming off for you? What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I I think just to have the clean look, I have to take it off, John. But when you when you started to ask me that question and tell me a little bit more about it, I remember being in high school. And yeah, you would have to leave the stickers on your hats after you got them to show that they were authentic. And right. And I also, you know, there are plenty of memories that pop up in my head now where as a young kid I would take a sticker off years after I had a hat, maybe and I had been wearing it a lot, maybe if the sticker got damaged or something like that, and then there would be that rectangular, different colored patch on the brim of your hat.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, right, exactly from the sun or the dust. Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that. I mean, as you talk about it, I I go back in time because my dad, like when he was a big had nothing to do with the tags, but he would bend the bill a certain way. Like he had an art to bending the bill properly. And my sons were growing up, and that was when flat bills were starting to come in. And I'll never forget that. My son had a hat that he loved as a flat bill hat. My grandfather or my dad said, Let me see that thing. And he took it and he started bending the bill on it, and it absolutely crushed my son. It was beautiful to my dad at the end, but my son was like, Oh, you just won my hat and put it. I mean, it was so funny to think about some of those different things because you know you've got you've got a pretty good curve on your hat that you're wearing there as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I used to do the flat-brimmed hat. I had a I had a Houston Oilers hat when I was in high school and probably early college that was flat. It was that that uh light kind of powder blue color or whatever they were. And uh so I you know I've had them all. I actually now have like a hat brim curvature device thing that I could put my hat into.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yep, exactly. That's my again, you wouldn't need that if my dad was still around. He would work that thing forever to make sure it was shaped properly. He it was very and then he always put a crease in the top as well because he wanted it to sit as high as it could on top of his head, too. Anyway, I I I those are some of the things you remember about dads and things like that.

What Makes An Uncommon Leader

SPEAKER_01 30:51

I never asked this question before on the Uncommon Leader podcast, but I'll throw it to you because you're you're good on your feet anyway. This show is about leading and living an uncommon life, no doubt about it. What would your meaning be specifically for someone who is an uncommon leader? How would you define that?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I'll go back to something that David Goggins said inside of Can't Hurt Me, which is that you want to become the uncommon amongst the uncommon. I've been consuming some content recently from Alex Hormozy and David Goggins and Jock O'Willink and some of these really hard guys. And they'll say things like they'll say things like, it's not that difficult to become uncommon these days. And I think what they mean is that the average person is very distracted. We talked about six or seven hours a day on your phone, only 16% of people are reading on a daily basis. Most people are just distracted. Living for the now, instant gratification all day long, next dopamine hit is the only thing that they think about. And so to delay gratification and read long-form physical paper content and work on yourself makes you uncommon. And I think one of my goals right now is to become uncommon amongst the uncommon. I want to take it to a whole nother level. I want to rev my engine up. I want to scale my business and my impact and my book club. I want to make reading physical paper books more attractive again to a younger generation that's losing touch with how the brain properly develops. It's what I care about. It's why I'm doing the TEDx. It's why I launched the book club. It's why I'll continue to do these annual conferences and partner with people who care because I don't want to see mental health continue to worsen. I don't want to see people continue to gain weight and get divorced. These are all products of losing control of our most basic human capabilities. And a big part of it is that we're not reading anymore. And so that's how I think about it, John.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Love that. Nick, that was uh that was really cool. I'm glad I asked that question. And uh you've even got me intrigued because they are hard. I mean, those guys are hard, they are uncommon in their own way. I think of another guy that's kind of like that is uh Dan Martell in terms of some of the ways that he's talking about AI right now and how he's just blunt and and brings things forward. And that truth we need to hear if we're going to reach that uncommon status. We need to be striving for that. And, you know, in your space and listening to what your vision is, there's also that level of caring that exists within that, that empathy, that compassion that exists within why you want to do what you want to do when you become uncommon. So thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate that. And again, appreciate the value that you've added for me specifically in many areas

Where To Join The Book Club

SPEAKER_01 33:35

so far. Give me an opportunity here to quote sell as much as you want to. Where do folks need to go right now? Uh, the best place to go to get in touch with you and to learn more about your book club and about what you've got going on.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

The best place to go is the link in the show notes below. You can click on the school.com slash bookthinkers link with some fun characters after that. That's the place that I'm going to be personally hanging out the most. Look, my Instagram account, BookThinkers, has hundreds of thousands of followers. I've got three or four different team members in there helping me out every day. It's not always me. But the one place where I will always be is inside of our book club. If you would like custom book recommendations, if you would like to jump on a call with me one-on-one, if you would like to collaborate with me in any way, the best place to get in touch is inside of our book club. It is also the best way to make sure that you are surrounded by ambitious readers who genuinely want to make the world a better place. Everybody in our book club is a leader. You'll be surrounded by people that will hold you accountable to the best version of yourself. And so I would encourage everybody that's still listening, of course, show some love to John in the show, but also jump into the book club and show some love over there too, because John's going to be hanging out, and uh that'll be a chance for you to get some FaceTime with him, too.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

I'll be there.

unknown 35:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Absolutely. I'll be there. Nick, thanks so much for sharing, not again the past 35 minutes, but also being so generous with me over the years. I've really appreciated the relationship that we're building here too. I wish you the best. What you're doing is so important. There's no doubt about it. What you're doing has the potential to have epic results. I mean, I love to hear you talking about not just executing inside of reading, but fixing the problems that our country has with regards to divorce and obesity and the different mental health issues that are running rampant in our society right now. Uh, and I appreciate the energy at which you're going after those and trying to eliminate those. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, thank you. And and very final note, you know, because you mentioned those things. How are they related to reading? You know, if you think about, if I think about what is the one action that I can take that has the largest downstream effect? I believe that personal development and nonfiction business books raise our awareness, give us confidence, which improves self-love, which improves discipline, which improves our desire to make an impact on our family by getting healthier, on our business by doing even better than we did before, on our minds by improving cognition and improving IQ with long-form content. So it's like, what's the one thing? You know, improve our relationships, which is a lot of self-awareness and self-love first, right? Oxygen mass before you help the people around you. And so it's like, what's the one lever that people can pull that can impact all of those things? It's reading personal development content. And I'm just so passionate about it. So one more time, thank you, D, for giving me the opportunity to share today.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Amen. Thank you, Nick. Thank you so much. Hey Nick, thank you so much for being a guest again on the Uncommon Leader podcast. I thank you for writing the forward to my book, and thank you most of all for looking to have the impact that you want to have on leaders through improving their habits and reading. Folks, if you're really done looking at books as just entertainment and you want to move to implementing those things, I would encourage you to check out the book club in the show notes that Nick is launching. I think it's gonna be powerful. And he you know, he told me even after recording, he wants it to be the number one book club in the world in the next five years. I think he's gonna make a big difference with this book club. Go check it out. Obviously, I'd like you to uh follow him on BookTinkers as well. He brings out some great insights on his Instagram page. And I'd love for you to share this article with a reader you know who needs to keep growing as well. Until next time, keep reading, go and grow champions. Until next time, go and grow champions.