For this episode of All About Bikes, Kalen sits down with longtime Pivot Athlete and content producer, Brice Shirbach. They explore Brice's career with Pivot, balancing work and family, plus much more!
For this episode of All About Bikes, Kalen sits down with longtime Pivot Athlete and content producer, Brice Shirbach. They explore Brice's career with Pivot, balancing work and family, plus much more!
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pivot Cycles All About Bikes podcast. Today we have long time pivot athlete Bryce Scherbach with us, so this one is all about Bryce. Bryce is responsible for a handful of current pivot series of films including Sight Unseen and Underexposed. He was a contributing editor to Pinkbike.
[00:00:22] com for eight years and developed the Local Flavors series, as well as Eastbound and Down. Welcome to the podcast, Bryce.
[00:00:29] Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me here. Can you share a bit, uh, about your journey as a mountain biker and how you became affiliated with Pivot Cycles? Yeah, that's, uh, uh, a good lengthy story, so I'll try to give you the cliff notes.
[00:00:42] Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think I started, I mean, I've been riding bikes. My entire life, like I think most of us have, um, and, you know, I, I think for most of my childhood, uh, it wasn't a super serious pursuit of mine. Um, it was kind of just like a thing I did every day because I lived on a farm and it was half of my driveway.
[00:01:04] It was half a mile long and my best friends that lived in my quote unquote neighborhood were like four miles away. So bikes were just kind of the mode of transport and a lot of times it was just. and, and trails to kind of get to and from our, our houses. So, um, I, I always just looked at mountain bikes that way for a really long time, but they also were just sort of very big part of my life and ingrained in sort of who I was and my identity and being out in the mountains.
[00:01:31] And, um, but it was, I think after college, that's, that's when it started to really take up for me quite a bit, riding quite a lot more, uh, and started racing pretty seriously and did a lot. Uh, offer a multi sport and mountain bike racing, um, because I had a track background, um, as well. So, uh, but I ultimately just started to focus more and more on bikes, um, and, and, uh, yeah, like my, my early twenties just really fell in love with, um, riding trail.
[00:02:02] And, and, you know, I enjoyed racing, but I think that I was kind of a competitive sort of athlete for most of my life. And there's, I don't know, maybe some. People find a way to keep that fire burning, but I felt like that fire to be really competitive against other people started to fade a little bit. But I also really love pushing myself on the bike, um, and I didn't feel like I needed racing to be a primary motivator for that.
[00:02:35] Um, I found just. You know, it almost got to a point in my mid 20s where like racing was a facilitator to sort of just make me a better rider versus maybe riding a lot to be a better racer. Um, and yeah, so, you know, I think, I think at some point, though, in my mid to late 20s, you know, I was consuming mountain bike media like everybody.
[00:02:58] Did in the early 2000s, mid 2000s. And, um, but I also started to feel like there was a bit of a gap, um, in terms of like, you know, your pink bike. com and a lot of like at the time bike magazine was, was a big publication, probably the sort of pinnacle mountain bike publication at the time. Um, dirt rag, you know, existed and I think they were East coast based, uh, as far as their publishing house, but it's just so much stuff.
[00:03:29] Was really awesome, inspiring, but like I was like, man, like if you never rode a bike before in your life and you looked at these websites or you picked up one of these issues, you would think it only ever existed in British Columbia, California. Or the American West, or like the Alps, um, and mountain biking.
[00:03:54] Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, being a native East, I mean, I've lived out here on the East coast my entire life. And, and so, um, you know, I think you, you start to develop like this sense of, uh, you develop a really strong affinity for Appalachia because, you know, it's, it's not as, uh, it doesn't offer up as like.
[00:04:14] The spectacle, the visual spectacle that you have and and taller mountains, but they're so old and the values are just so much deeper than a lot of other sort of places. And I think, um, there's just a beauty here that it's harder to capture on camera, but it isn't any less impactful when you're in the thick of it.
[00:04:33] So I actually started a website just to sort of fill that void. Um, for, for sort of East Coast mountain bike culture. And, um, it was not a, I mean, it was all me. Like I didn't make, I just spent money on the website. Like I didn't, it wasn't any way there. There was no income being generated from it. Um, and we weren't, I mean, I think, I think a month.
[00:04:56] I maybe got like 15, 000 clicks a month, right? Like where, you know, Pinkbike gets 3 million clicks. So, um, but like, it was enough to, to at least sort of endear, um, some of what I did as a storyteller to, to some key East Coast And, uh, and eventually, yeah, just, you know, you start working with, um, and making friends with like people that are, would be sort of considered, you know, legends, uh, in mountain biking, like Lenovsky or Sue Haywood and a few others.
[00:05:29] And, um, and yeah, you know, when they like what you're doing and they kind of share it eventually, yeah, you get lucky and maybe the right advice finds it. And so, uh, Julian coffee, who was the former publisher for pink bike, um, Yeah, asked me to start doing some work for them, which was awesome. So that was back in 2012.
[00:05:51] Um, and, and, yeah, I mean, I did a couple of small stories for them, a little like, uh, Linovsky, um, personality profile, and I did an indoor bike park piece. And then, yeah, what we ended up doing, he, he was like, you know, we What you're doing on the East Coast is awesome, and it would be cool if we had more regular content, um, in that vein.
[00:06:16] So we started a series called Eastbound and Down, which was really just like a, an umbrella series, uh, that was like anything East Coast, you know, it could be a personality profile, it could be a big adventure sort of photo story, um, whatever. Um, so that 1st year, that's what it was. It was just sort of like a catch all.
[00:06:35] Um, but then the next year of Eastbound and Down, I started to focus more on just traveling to really cool communities and making it more of a community expose. Um, we did Eastbound and Down like that for another couple of years, and then eventually. Uh, there was just some interest to, to maybe expand it, um, extend that sort of template that I've been developing for a few years beyond the East coast, which I was more than happy to do, because even like an East coaster, obviously, and, and, you know, like, love this place, I raced Oregon Enduro series and, um, traveled quite a lot, you know, to, to race and to ride.
[00:07:12] So, um, so, yeah, it was, uh, it was a night, you know, local flavors really was the extension of eastbound and down. No, like geographic specific sort of niche. Um, and yes, the local flavors took off. It actually ended up being like a really cool moneymaker for pink bike. You know, we ended up, um, I also had started to, as a way to just make more money, make it doing that series, you know, cause pink bike paid me, um, some money and, and every year it got more and more, but it wasn't like, you know, I was.
[00:07:44] itching to sort of like become, make this like full time, ride my bike and tell cool stories. Um, I wasn't necessarily going to, you know, as a mid pack pro. Like us pro wasn't, you're just not supporting yourself obviously doing that. Um, and yeah, you know, I, I decided to start working with tourism authorities, um, and delivering like assets from each of these stories to tourism bureaus and authorities.
[00:08:11] And, um, I did that on my own for a couple of years. So if I'd go to like. What Chattanooga or wherever I would go, um, I'd give them a whole bunch of assets, photo assets and stuff like that. And, uh, yeah, it was awesome. It was like a really cool sort of way for them to start buying more into the content.
[00:08:27] And so pink bike, I shared that with pink bike. And, uh, yeah, we ended up developing this really. Big giant sales package for them. Um, and I think it made them a lot of money for, you know, the last five years that I was contributing to them. Um, but yeah, I think, I think at some point though, around 2015, I was riding for, for another bike brand, BMC.
[00:08:48] Um, I had gone out to Switzerland to do a film that they had been funded, funding with, with TGR and, uh. And I remember like, um, you know, I'd spent two years writing for them and we went to their headquarters while we were out there and this is not, uh, not to like disparage them specifically, but I just, you know, like they're, they, you know, have a film crew and a few of their athletes come in and knocking on their door at HQ and they're like, who, who are you guys?
[00:09:20] We're, we're paying for this. Oh, okay. And then like we had to wait outside and then like 15 minutes later, they came back and let us in and I was like, Oh man, this is, it's just like a, yeah, just to, you know, like each company's allowed to sort of prioritize and sort of weigh like their, their brand identity in their own way, but it was very clear like that, um, that mountain biking, it just wasn't like, it didn't feel like a very big part of, of.
[00:09:47] Um, and I, you know, late, late 2015, uh, I got home from that trip and I was like, all right, I, I would, I definitely would be keen to, to maybe explore some options and, uh, earlier in that, that year, I'd actually done a piece for dirt rag, uh, with pivot factory racing. So I, that was the 1st time meeting Bernard and, uh, Emily was on the team at that time.
[00:10:10] Um. And it was Elliot Jackson was writing for Pivot in 2015 with Bernard, so I think it might have just been the three of them plus their, uh, the mechanic and, uh, and yeah, so that was my intro to Pivot and, and, you know, I, I got home and, and, uh, the marketing director at the time was, uh, really enjoying. Um, some of some of the stuff I've been doing for BMC and the, you know, like my teammate and really good friend Adam Snyder, uh, on BMC.
[00:10:38] And so, um, she was asked, she asked if we'd be interested in basically taking that dynamic, um, if we were allowed to, um, you know, if we weren't under contract for 2016 and maybe sliding over to pivot and we both were. 100 percent on board with that. So that, that really kicked things off with pivot. So my first year under contract with them was eight years ago in 2016.
[00:11:00] And, um, and yeah, we, you know, this first two years we were, uh, pivot Reynolds Enduro racing. Um, so we had like a little factory racing program that. Pivot was obviously the title sponsor for, um, and it was Adam Snyder and myself and, uh, Mason Bond was, was there on the first year. And then, uh, the second year of the program, uh, we brought, um, French Canadian stud, uh, Antoine Caron.
[00:11:27] Um, and yeah, the four of us were all really close and we love racing and traveling together. And, and we, you know, we, Did a bunch of cool videos for Pivot, um, and as well as some other sponsors Maxis and, um, yeah, that was what it was for the first few years. And then, um, and then, yeah, just over time, my, my role sort of, I, I was really fortunate.
[00:11:47] I, I've, I've honestly think I'm unbelievably lucky to have, to have the opportunity to, to have this partnership with Pivot, because I think, you know, if you get brought on as, as a, as a racer. And you tell your sponsor that, uh, you're not, you don't want to raise a whole lot anymore. Like that's a risk. Like they, you know, could very well be like, well, I mean, good for you, but that's, that's why we have you.
[00:12:13] Um, but I had that conversation and, and I was like, I, you know, like, I'm not interested in just cruising. Like, I think that, you know, there's a lot of parallels between the ski and snowboard industry and the mountain bike industry, where like you have a, uh, you could have some really awesome ski and snowboard athletes that don't do any competition.
[00:12:31] Um, but they're out there just producing really cool content and compelling, telling really compelling stories. Um, that's sort of, you know, whether it's aspirational or inspirational, like they can kind of blur the lines and push themselves as writers or as athletes, but, but not in a competitive format.
[00:12:50] Um, and so I had that conversation with pivot and I was just super stoked to see that, like, Um, everybody seemed to understand and get it. And Pivot has, like, this incredible, like, history of just unbelievable racing talent. I mean, Bernard is, um, I mean, how long has he been, like, riding for Pivot now? Like, I mean, I feel like his 10 year anniversary was Four years ago.
[00:13:12] So he's quite a while. Um, but you know, I think it's cool, uh, to have had the opportunity to have that conversation for pivot to respond the way they did and be so supportive of like storytelling, you know, and, and the way that I like to tell stories. And, and I feel like even after that conversation, it, it, it has been really cool to see them even look at others to sort of like expand that space within the brand and not just have like.
[00:13:39] Your factory racing team, and then supporting a few like XC teams. And then you got your, your one dude that tells stories. Like, I feel like Pivot has in recent years, uh, brought on even more storytellers with a disparate sort of set of voices. And, and so you have a nice like spectrum of, of, you know, personalities and voices.
[00:14:03] Sort of doing this as well. It seemed like when you were running the enduro or you guys were at the enduro team together, you guys had a lot of fun. It was like, like just you guys, the videos do you put out the content you guys had? It was looked like just a bunch of buddies going riding and having a good time.
[00:14:20] Did that rekindle some of that like spark for racing or did it? Kinda reinforce the idea of storytelling and, and trying to go that, that direction. Yeah, that's a good question. I, I, uh, I remember thinking, you know, especially when it was the, the, the second year, and we had four of us. We were like, for, I, I think he described it perfectly when we, when we would do our videos, um, they were just, it was so much fun.
[00:14:46] And I, man, we just, we laughed so hard all the time and, uh, and I remember thinking like. Go into like the Dirty Sanchez, the Invitational Enduro for a bunch of years out in Northern California. Um, uh, part of it was like, I'd watched like Antoine, I think out of the four of us, Antoine was probably the first.
[00:15:09] Had the most raw speed, um, and, and so he and I would just do some practice laps together and, and, and it just, I actually remember like, you know, there was a moment where my desire to sort of like, tell stories and put my energy there, uh, was, was really like crystal clear during one of those TDS practices, because I remember Antoine just being like, You know, we stopped and we were like catching our breath.
[00:15:35] And he's just, I was like, dude, you are just like, you're so explosive. He's like, yeah, I get. Angry when I race, it's like, I think you have to be angry. Like, I think you have to, like, you have to pedal angry or else like, it's hard to, to do well at race. Like, and I was like, yeah, that's what I don't have. Like, I, I love to, like, I love laying off the brakes and like, for sure.
[00:16:01] I mean, I, I'm not, I have no allergy to pedaling, but like that, I'm just not motivated that way. And, and I saw that and I was like very clear to me then I was like, I. I push myself the most when the camera's rolling, like, and it's not, not because like, I need to look good for the camera. I just, that process for me is like, when I, it's a whole thing, right?
[00:16:20] The whole, the whole process, not, not specifically just when the camera's on, but just like wanting to sort of see, like, I have a picture in my brain of how I think this trail should be ridden in a way. Like, and sometimes it's about making the trail look good. And sometimes I don't honestly, very often, like just do things as like.
[00:16:38] A showcase of, like, my riding counts because I'm not Berger, um, and I, I think there's only a handful of people who really are so talented as athletes that, like, they're worth watching just because what they can do. I think, so what I always try to do is just go right in a way that, like, makes the trail look super dynamic and interesting, which usually means you just have to push yourself and and go as fast as you can, but like that to me, like, that whole process is what when I start to really, like.
[00:17:04] Ramp it up and when I'm racing, I'm just not there and I'm watching Antoine get to that place mentally. Uh, and even Mason, I mean, Mason was the biggest goofball out of all four of us, but you know, he, he had that like switch. And I remember at some point realizing like, man, I, I used to have that, but I don't know where it is anymore.
[00:17:25] And, and I think maybe part of that too, is like, it's hard to put all yourself. And to storytelling, um, if you're still like leaving some of you yourself behind for another pursuit, you know, um, I, I mean, at least that, that's how it felt for me, like, I remember doing like, uh, Eastern States cups and I would race, like I go do the pro Enduro and.
[00:17:51] But then I'd also have to cover the, the race for Pink Light, uh, and I had to shoot. So, like, it was brutal. Like, I did that for two years. I was like, dude, I can't do this anymore. Like, my racing is suffering because of, like, all the extra energy I'm putting into the other thing. And, and the other thing stinks because, like, I'm racing and I'm not just out there being a purely dedicated event shooter.
[00:18:14] Um, it's all, all that stuff. I think just a few years there of that, trying to, trying to juggle both. And, and maybe there's others that can do it, but, but like the way that I want to tell stories, um, you know, like it tends to be, I don't want to say long form, but like, you know, I'm not doing two minute shreddits very often.
[00:18:30] It's usually five minute plus videos where there's a lot of story behind it. And I think. Um, I like to take a maybe slightly more like, I attempt a more cinematic approach to the videos and to the, to the short films. And if I'm doing a photo piece, like I want it to be, I just want it to be something that you could read online, but you wouldn't be surprised to see it in print, you know, like at that, at that level.
[00:18:54] So, um, so that, cause that's just super important to me. Um, and, uh, and yeah, I think, I think. You know, traveling with those guys was the best because they're all really good dudes and good friends of mine. Um, but it also to me was like, it helped clear things up for me, like my, the direction I need to be going as, as an athlete and ambassador, uh, isn't, isn't rooted in racing anymore.
[00:19:20] And that was like a. It was clear, but it also was like, how many people are going to be into that? You know, like I'm not a YouTuber, like I'm not, I don't, I don't do that either. So like, it is a very, it's a pretty weird corner I've painted myself into that I love, but like, yeah, you're, you're, you're not sure how, like, it's always going to be received by others, you know, by, by sponsors, at least specifically.
[00:19:44] Well, I think you've, you've traveled the world, um, racing and then with this new, these new projects you've got, you know, the entire world is your, your riding canvas. Um, but, but you're still a champion of the East Coast riding scene. Um, what, what keeps you out East? I mean, you, you've traveled the world now.
[00:20:02] Um, so many different places. Uh, what, what keeps you planted, planted out East? Uh, yeah, there's a few things. I mean, part of it is my wife, um, and my family is, is, is a big chunk of it. You know, like we're, we're both from the East coast and so our, our. Is is largely here. Um, I'm not, I've never really been a home body.
[00:20:27] Um, but yeah, she, she has a, uh, an amazing job at the Vanguard group and they're based here just outside of Philly. So that's really why, like, we're where we are. I mean, I live in Delaware and, and the reason we live in Delaware, though, is like, My favorite trails in greater Philadelphia are two miles down the road.
[00:20:45] So when we bought this house five years ago, um, I specifically was like, if we're not going to be moving up to Vermont or, or out through the Northwest, like, then I'd like to be close to like my favorite trails in the area. So, so that's, that's why we're here specifically in Delaware. Um, you know, but I honestly think like.
[00:21:05] If I could live anywhere else, it probably would be Vermont. And, um, I dunno, I go back and forth. I mean, there's, there's so many good places to ride around the world, but one of the cool things about mountain biking is like, you can find sick trail anywhere now. Um, and so. You know, even even the ones that are two miles on the road here, uh, they're, they're awesome.
[00:21:28] I mean, people will come that are from American West or wherever else up in Vermont or out in the Northwest and, um, I'll take them out for two or three hour ride and like, they're blown away by how much fun they're having. Um, so, you know, I think, I think mountain biking is. It's pretty cool in that you can find good trail and almost every corner of the world.
[00:21:48] So, but yeah, maybe, I mean, at some point, you know, down the road, I don't, I don't think it's out of the question that we, we would find ourselves in maybe a different part of the country. I don't know if that, that could mean just, yeah, driving or, you know, moving six hours North and Vermont or, um, or yeah, I mean, even parts of the Northwest, you know, my wife is a big fan of, but, um, but yeah, for now I think this is just a good fit and, and It's easy for me to get, you know, 15 minutes from Philadelphia International Airport, and I have all the, you know, just so many resources that you take for granted when you go to really small communities in the mountains.
[00:22:23] Um, so, so there, there's definitely things that I'm, I, I wish, uh, we're different about this place. Um. But there's also things when I travel, I'm like, gosh, it's like, there's so much, so much stuff is so accessible to me back home that isn't accessible sort of in so many other parts of the world. So, um, there's, there's definitely a little bit of give and take, uh, for sure.
[00:22:47] Yeah. And with your travel for work, you have a nice balance. You get to. Ride your home trails, but you also get to explore and no matter, no matter where you live, if Whistler's your backyard, you know, eventually you get tired of the same, same things and you, uh, want to travel to the Southwest desert and ride some chunky Phoenix riding or Sedona or Moab.
[00:23:08] So yeah, I think there's, there's a lot to enjoy what you've got at home, but you've got the best of both worlds being able to travel, explore and kind of write your own ticket to. Anywhere in the world, Norway, Guatemala. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, yeah, I can't, I can't complain. Like, uh, I get, of course I get bored on my local trails and that's usually then this time of year, it's like, let's go dig.
[00:23:31] It's time to start like putting new trails in. So it's less boring. Right. Um, but yeah, I mean, I also, you know, like pivot is my goodness. I get. There's just so much trust. I think between that's reciprocal between myself and pivot. And, um, yeah, you know, Norway is a great example. Like, when we were talking about sight unseen for the one we did earlier this year, um, you know, we were kind of juggling a handful of locations and, uh, and, you know, for me, Norway, Norway was at the top of the bucket list and it's like, okay, you know, like, let's, let's unpack that a little bit and see how feasible that is and what that might look like.
[00:24:07] And, um. And it ended up working out and, and you know, with Underexposed, uh, I have full carte blanche over like where I'm producing those. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, uh, and I've, I've even made a couple of edits on my trails. I mean, I did, the very first little video I ever did for Pivot was, was on my local trails, um, the International 4 2 9 day video.
[00:24:31] And then last year I did one for Stan, uh, a black and white, uh, like raw. Kind of last like pure shred it. I did I think the two minute raw video called sticks and stones and like, um So yeah, every now and then I get to, I can, I can kind of just stay, stay home and make, make a cool video. But, um, but yeah, like I have no, no shortage of really amazing experiences and travels and I get to, to feed the adventure bug, uh, almost as, as much as I want, you know, you just kind of touched on it, but, uh, I was thinking we really should be recording this episode on April 29th, um, four to nine.
[00:25:10] Uh, can you tell us what that date means to you and its significance? Yeah. I, uh. Um, my first year riding for pivot, we had, uh, I forget the bikes. Oh, no, we, I don't remember exactly the models. I feel like we were, I think you guys, yeah, Firebird, 27, Firebird, Mach 6, um, and, uh, yes. Mach. The mock four to nine trail.
[00:25:36] Right. And then, uh, so that, that first, that generation of the four to nine, um, was, uh, I love that little bike, you know, it was the one 16 travel one 20 upfront. I might even just been a 34 at that point. Um, and, uh, And I just thought it was, my mind was blown. I wrote that like the Firebird, the Firebird was super sweet, but I around here, like that it's a, it's a, it was a lot more bike than you really needed.
[00:26:06] Same with the Mach six to an extent. Um, so I just was riding at the 49 all the time locally and just had, I could not stop riding that bike. And so I sent Carla, who was the marketing director at the time. Um, I just did this like. Little video wasn't supposed to be any, I was like, you guys just put this on like Facebook, like on April 29th, if you, if you think it's funny and they ended up doing like, they did that, but then they made it, did a pink bike post.
[00:26:36] And it was like much more. And I never, I wasn't trying to make it like a really. It wasn't a heavy lift for me, uh, the most lift, the biggest lift was, was the part where I call my wife, um, and kind of tell her off because she's not respecting the holidays as much as I feel like she should. So, but anyway, April 29th, 429.
[00:26:59] Um, that, that was like, it was so dumb. Like it was such a silly idea. Uh, but I just, I had fun, fun with it and, you know, like Adam and Mason were like, thought it was hilarious and, and now it got a really good response. And then, um, and then, yeah, every year I always, uh, at least on social media, I'll just sort of wish everybody happy international fortune.
[00:27:20] Like, I also, the idea of it, it's like, I like my favorite part of that is that it's called international fortune. I'd be like, it's like a world wreck internationally recognized holiday for like. This, this short travel trail bike. Uh, it's so, it's such a dumb idea, but like, it's the kind of thing that cracks me up and I, I was funny, like pivot, just like loved it and leaned into it.
[00:27:42] And it was really wild to see that. And, um, I see the response, uh, online as well. And, uh, my wife was an amazing sport to kind of like play along and, and, you know, do the script the way I told it. And yeah, it was fun, fun to make that. And, um, yeah, we should do a little like. We should probably, we should probably think about revisiting that and then do an update of one of these days.
[00:28:06] Huh? I, I celebrate it every year. It's very important to me. It's one of my favorite bikes ever too. Yeah. Oh God. I mean, every generation of that bike is incredible. Like I love that. I was on that bike so much, uh, or now, you know, the trail for tonight. Uh, as it's called now, but yeah, that that that 1st year was such an eye opener for me.
[00:28:30] Um, and I, I honestly just think that that short travel bikes, uh, are. I think the last couple of years to me, they represent, like, peak mountain bike design and engineering. Um, you know, like, I was on that. That the sort of the, the, the Enduro spec 49 in Norway, but. It's not like a bike that you wouldn't look at like, uh, 120 mil, 140 bike as something that you're going to go take on the steeps of like Norway, the fjords.
[00:29:01] I mean, um, I don't even, I, I think the one thing maybe we didn't effectively capture was just how steep most of the stuff was that we were riding on out there. Cause, uh, and I, I mean, we could talk about that at some point if you want to talk about that film, but, um, but it's steep and it's like rough hewn.
[00:29:22] And, you know, like the trails are not made for bikes by and large, you can ride whatever trail you want out there because of, of like their trail use laws. But, um, but that bike, that little bike was just, I can't, I don't, I think I would have gone faster on a Firebird, you know, maybe in terms of just pure speed.
[00:29:41] It was, I was just so engaged and it was so much fun. And I think like, that's just a testament to how brilliant that bicycle is and how, how good. Mount bike design is at the moment. It's, it's, it's wild. Yeah. Yes. Over your career, you've worked on a lot of travel stories, uh, that share not only riding in different locations, but also the local scene and vibe, your local flavors series, intersections, uh, the shop stops series, uh, uh, were these previous projects, the foundation for the underexposed series, or did you just kind of ride in these different locations, meet people and say, Hey, I really want to tell your story a bit more.
[00:30:26] Yeah. Um, I think that I. They all kind of scratch a fairly similar itch, which could be a problem, like, and in terms of just, like, how to tell the difference between all the series, if I'm being honest, but, um, but I also just think that community and advocacy and stewardship are all things that go, like, they're all interwoven, um, but we don't.
[00:30:53] We don't really like talk about the advocacy or stewardship part, or like really humanized community. We, we, you know, like even a lot of bike films, well, they're, they're ultimately just an excuse to like show sick riding, which I get, like I consume it and I like watching it. And I mean, I want to ride, I want to be a sick mountain biker when I'm filming.
[00:31:13] But I also just think like, you can, you can do that, but at some point it's all the same and, and we are not paying enough attention to, or given enough, like. Um, we're just not given enough space to really, like, have a better understanding of the people that are behind these trails. And I don't just mean, like, the trail builders.
[00:31:33] I mean, like, the work that's not sexy, that goes into, like, advocacy and, and, and, and access and, and how, like, communities can lift themselves up through trail access and, um. And that's really, yeah, so, so, I mean, local flavors was, was definitely did that in a big way early on. It did. At least I think I think by the end local flavors.
[00:32:00] Became a pretty, pretty much just a guide to traveling to different parts of the world, which is okay. I mean, there's definitely, I mean, there's definitely a place for that. But once, once Pinkbike was like, we really want to, we want this like consistent template, consistent format for local flavors and make it less story, more just like, you know, You know, maybe they're like, you know, pull some people in with, like, a little 1st, 1st hand account of, like, what your experience is like here.
[00:32:30] But, like, let's, let's talk about the trails and blah, blah, blah. And, like, it became very structured. And so once that happened, yeah, I was definitely looking for a way to continue to tell the community base sort of narratives, um, and. So, yeah, I think, uh, the Shop Stop series was a cool opportunity for Pivot to really like humanize dealers and, and show the personalities and the people behind, um, local bike shops and, and then underexposed.
[00:33:00] Yeah. Uh, really was was like, what is a short film version of like, what I had, what I was doing with local flavors before. Like I had to sort of turn that series into like. A pretty strict guide to writing, um, and, and yeah, and I think over the years, um, it's just become this really fun and engaging way to, to connect with people.
[00:33:26] And, uh, it's definitely what drives me as a storyteller more than, more than most things. I think, I think traveling to different parts of the world and writing is, is amazing. But, uh, I think it's a lot more amazing if you have a better understanding of the people behind. The trails and the locations. Um, so that's, that's what I do with, with underexposed ultimately is, is really just like, let's shine a light on the trail associations and the individuals responsible for making this such an awesome place to ride.
[00:33:56] And let's also show how awesome the writing itself is. And, and these are a hundred percent self filmed, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's just me. Um. And that's been, I think, um, going back to, yeah, going back to Pink Pike as well. Like, you know, I was shooting a lot of my, uh, stills were actually still self portraits, um, as well as shooting other, uh, riders and stuff like that for those.
[00:34:22] Um, and so, yeah, honing, honing that. Skill over the last several years has been pretty, pretty valuable for, for pivot. And a lot of my other sponsors, you know, when you have like you, when you have your athlete is who is also a photographer. When they can kind of do all of that at once, it's really, really nice and really efficient and useful versus like, let's coordinate this group of writers and let's go hire this photographer and, um, and I mean, I I'll work with photographers for sure.
[00:34:55] Still, like Katie was answered and I work a lot together. Um, but it is, uh, it is a lot of fun and, and it's really, really challenging. And I curse myself out in the woods a lot. When I'm making these, these videos, uh, but it's also like, man, it's so rewarding. And I get super stoked to, you know, when, when I'm finishing these up and, um, and I'm like, okay, this doesn't, you know, now I really what underexposed has become as far as like how I capture it.
[00:35:23] I, I don't want them to look self filmed, you know, like, um, and there's a lot of like different cameras that I use to achieve that. Um, uh, and then just obviously there's some limitations, uh, for sure, but like having. Um, you know, GoPro Hero 360 and creating camera movement with that cameras is, I don't think that's why they built that camera, but, um, and post production, I've got the means to make, you know, like these little wet pans happen and, and then, um, you know, like, yeah, with aerial footage, you know, there's so many different, like, autonomous systems out there and, and, um.
[00:36:03] And yeah, you can create, you know, you can use cable cameras and sort of have them on a timer, just use, um, software to kind of start and stop things. So, so yeah, I, I go into the woods with a whole bunch of stuff so that I can just be by myself and, and yeah, make movies. When it, when it comes to underexposed at least.
[00:36:22] Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty impressive. Cause most people just snap the, the random selfie at the trail head or have the POV GoPro footage. So you, you putting together these, uh, great, great movies on, on the location, you know, every, every place that makes you want to go ride there. Cause you've got just beautiful, beautiful shots and good, good action going on.
[00:36:44] So thanks for, thanks for putting in all the extra time on all that. Yeah. Thanks. And it's. It's, it's, I love making them and, and I try to, um, I honestly think the other, one of the keys to, to the success of that series is like staying, steering a little bit clear of like the bike park stuff and, and keeping it more sort of natural or single track.
[00:37:06] Cause I think that speaks more, I think you really get a better sense of like that place versus being, you know, like when, if you find yourself on a really wide corridor trail, it's flowy and has a bunch of tables. So this is super fun to ride, but like. They don't, they all kind of look the same, you know, like, um, and so I think, I think I try to keep it to single track because that, that helps really evoke a sense of, of place much more effectively in my opinion.
[00:37:32] Do you worry some of these off the map locations you've showcased will get? too much traffic now they'll get popular and and kind of change change how they are or do you think they're off the beaten path enough that they'll they'll kind of be that that secret spot for a while yeah um i wouldn't go somewhere that yeah like i wouldn't i i think there's probably yeah like um the one that just came out is A hard place to get to.
[00:38:03] So I don't, I think that's just like a natural filter for, for gold beach. Um, cause gold beach is a super small town on the Pacific ocean in southern Oregon, and to get to that town takes a lot of effort and then to get to the trails from the town is another.
[00:38:25] Um, and, but the 1 that came up before that in Charlotte, Massachusetts, you know, that's, those trails are right across the street from like, 1 of the most renowned bike parks in the country. Thunder Thunder Mountain bike park. So, yeah, I think, I think when you do a showcase on those, you definitely will. Get more traffic out there, but that's they have.
[00:38:45] They have a threshold for quite a bit more than they already have. Like, it would be good for them to get more traffic there. But also, like, more importantly, you know, like those guys. Like, I wouldn't just go somewhere guerrilla style to make them, to make these videos, you know, so, um, I'm working, like, with the locals and with the trail association and the trail builders to make sure, like, hey, like, We're gonna, I want to showcase super fun stuff that's awesome to ride and that would look good on camera.
[00:39:13] But like, I also don't want to like give up all the good stuff, uh, to the public. Like if you guys don't want that. Um, and most of the time they're just like, yeah, man, we have this sick trail. Go shred it and film it. Um, and then other times you have, it's like a more sensitive. Trail or if there's access questions or whatever it is, then, then, yeah, they'll let me know.
[00:39:34] And I will steer clear of of that stuff. But, um, I mean, listen, if, if, like, I, if, if these ever got to a point where 1 of them went viral, that that might change things. But I also think, like, the audience for this is is generally like. Um, a little bit more of a thoughtful crowd, you know, and like they're, they're watching these, not just like, I mean, hopefully they go and check these places out, but I don't think they're just looking for like.
[00:40:02] The secret stash when they're, when they're watching these. What about, uh, sight unseen? How did, how did that idea come about? I know you've talked a lot about, um, achieving flow, um, kind of getting to a flow state, and, uh, and you've said, you know, you're, you're able to achieve that more on riding blind. Um, you know, it sounds like racing, um, You know, wasn't exactly what you wanted to achieve a flow state.
[00:40:29] Um, maybe writing the same jump flow trail over and over, though it's a flow trail, doesn't, doesn't get you that, that feeling of accomplishment. So, um, how did, how did that kind of, is that the impetus for, for starting Sight Unseen? Is that, is that kind of where it came about? Yeah, 100%. Um It's, uh, I just through local flavors and all the other things I've been doing for so long.
[00:40:55] Um, I just, you know, you get an opportunity to go to a brand new place and ride new trails. Um, and I always just was like, it's, it's super fun to follow people, uh, down trails, but I also just really like when I don't have when I can sort of just take it in for the 1st time without having somebody else's line choices affect mine.
[00:41:18] Or, or like their approach affect my approach and I just, yeah, I think, I think that that flow state where you're, you're not, you're not just, you're, it's like the ultimate example of just being present, I think, on a bike. Um, and when you ride stuff, that's very familiar, you know, like I ride my trails and I get annoyed at myself because I'll sometimes I do my best thinking when I'm on a ride, but then there's times where I don't want to be thinking about like.
[00:41:45] Like this pitch or, you know, this trip that's coming up in a week, like while I'm in the middle of a descent or climb, like I want to, I want to just be present and be in the moment. And I think when you push yourself on a trail that you've never been rid, you've never ridden before. Um, that's like, that's the flow state sort of that, um, uh, that I was hinting at with, with sight unseen.
[00:42:09] It's, it's, um, it's not necessarily like you're going to ride it perfectly. I mean, sometimes you, you do get into this like blur. Of you're not thinking you're just being purely instinctual. And it's just like, you maybe would never be able to replicate like what you just did on that trail. Like, even if you go ride it a few more times.
[00:42:26] Uh, but regardless, I just think like that's peak adventure on a bike. It's let's go ride somewhere new and like, let's like, we don't have the opportunity or we don't have the option to be distracted because like we have, we're, we're not, you know, I think, I think that's part of it, like the idea of pushing yourself as well.
[00:42:44] Like, um. You're not being a passenger. You're, you're really like engaged and you're, you're writing it in a way like where you're, you're pushing your own skillset and your comfort level. Um, which is not, not to like sound aggro, it's just, it's. I think, I think that's really where you are forcing your hand.
[00:43:03] You, you, you really need to be as present as possible. Um, and so, yeah, uh, you know, back in 2020, which was an amazing year to start a brand new travel series. Uh, but, um, yeah, uh, I, Ellery was the marketing manager and director at the time. She loved the idea. So yeah, we did, we did two a year for the first couple of years.
[00:43:26] We did, um, you know, in Colorado, actually, the only places that ever really ridden before 20, before that year in, in Colorado were Fruita and Grand Junction, like just those stuff out on the Western Slope. Oh, that might not be true. Maybe I've been aggressive. I've been aggressive before that. I forget. But, um, but anyway, I rode, rode Boulder.
[00:43:49] We did, we did the first one in Boulder and then, um, a couple days later, uh, Drew Bennett, Matt Jones, and I met in Durango and, and, you know, we just kind of kept to ourselves and it was a funny year, but, um, those first two, uh, were really fun to make and we, we, like, the first couple years, man, we were like, listen, what we capture has to be the very first time I see any of these trails.
[00:44:14] So it was like. So much work, and it was like, got to a point where, like, I remember thinking as I watched them, the following, I'm like, man, why, who cares if it's like my first or my third time, like, let's maybe start focusing a bit more on, like, making sure we're capturing it as best as we can, and not just, like, Yeah.
[00:44:33] Running gun, shoot from the hip, like, uh, you know, what happens happens. So yeah, then the next year in 21, we, we, we did two more. We did one on the Oregon coast, um, uh, whiskey run trails and abandoned. And then we did one in the Teton Valley. And then, um, and then after that, uh, I, you know, like in 2022, I, you know, the conversation was.
[00:44:58] Not just about like the flow state sort of, um, goal on the bike, but also, you know, going to a new place to ride is, you know, a really amazing adventure, but like part of what makes that amazing is the place and not just the riding. Right. And so we went to Guatemala. Uh, 2022 and man, I just like completely changed the way I like that to me, like elevated sight unseen, um, you know, like letting, letting the story and the place, like the, the setting itself have as big a role in the film is like the writing itself, um, that, that elevated sight unseen to like a couple of levels up from, from what it had been.
[00:45:44] Uh, previously, and then, yeah, this year, you know, for Norway and the film, I say to, but Norway, Norway was like, has always been at the very top of my, my bucket list, my adventure bucket list. And so that opportunity was just, um, like on unbelievably special and meaningful. And yeah, I mean, you know, like got emotional and, and, and the film to like, just.
[00:46:09] You know, talking about it. And when you start to say when you're talking about the experience, uh, and the like, while you're still in the thick of the experience and you start to articulate things in a way that maybe you hadn't really let yourself think, uh, it's, I just, you know, became overwhelmed with like gratitude, you know, for, for that opportunity.
[00:46:29] So, um. Yeah, that, that series is, uh, it's really special and, and it started off for sure. It's just like, let's, let's, let's go celebrate riding blind and sort of like, you know, see who that resonates with, um, to something that I think was much more just about like adventure and travel and, and engaging with new cultures and new communities, as well as like on new trails.
[00:46:56] What would you recommend to riders traveling to new locations on how to find the best trails? Do you do a ton of research before these trips? Reach out to people, get contacts? I know when I was a demo driver, we had it easy because we had all the local shops and the shop guys that always take us out on the best rides.
[00:47:15] So, um, do you like to wing it more or are you a plan, plan it and get everything sorted before you go? Yeah, I'm a planner. Uh, I'm definite. I'm like a stickler for a good plan. So, um, trail forks is not like the one stop shopping, but I'll look at that and kind of figure out trail density, um, through something like that.
[00:47:38] I don't have Strava, but I think that's another similar tool. Um, like any, any sort of like, yeah, heat map or, or online trail map. Um, and then, uh, yeah, I'll reach out to shops as well. Um, or see if there's a guide service, uh, in Guatemala, we actually had a guide service, um, because of the language barrier and Norway, uh, there, most of those.
[00:48:02] Most Norwegians also are great English speakers. Um, so it was less, that was less of an issue there. But, uh, honestly, yeah, like I, I, I'll, I'll go online. I'll look at the trails as best I can to see, like, which place seems to have a whole bunch of trails and, or just, you know, like there's, it's a nuanced, I guess, like, sort of approach.
[00:48:26] But, and then, and then I'll, yeah, I'll find a shop or I'll look and see, like, all right, there's a bunch of trails in, like, this region of this. Here, like, let me see if there's a trail association and then I'll reach out to the trail association sometimes and just say, hey, listen, I'm coming up to ride like, um, any recommendations or anything like, you know, you would, you would suggest or anything.
[00:48:47] I need to be on the lookout for concerns. And, um, I think, I think that just that due diligence is, is, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know, maybe, maybe like winging it. Is a more romantic, um, approach, but I also just feel like if I would just do some research, and it's not like I'm spending like 8 hours a day for 2 weeks straight, like reaching out, you know, just got to send a note to some people and, and let them know and ask a couple of questions about the trails and like, what, what should you expect?
[00:49:21] And generally, like, people are really stoked to talk about their trails. Um, and, and then, yeah, sometimes, yeah, you can get, you can, by doing that, not only you're learning more, but like, you can also find, uh, somebody like to go on a ride with you or get some good insights on some local shops or, or whatever, like, it's, it's always a good idea to do some research, I think, and, and, and a little bit of outreach because, um.
[00:49:47] Yeah, you never know, like how much good can, can come from just like when somebody, you know, you want to come ride the trails and you're looking for, you're looking at them for, for some insights. So for upcoming projects, what do you have, uh, what do you have coming for 2024? Some more, uh, some more sight unseen, some more underexposed.
[00:50:07] Do you have some other new projects you want to talk about? Yeah. Uh, the sight unseen thing's interesting. I. Um, talk to, to Tyler and, and the marketing team at pivot, you know, like I have a really, I feel fortunate to have a, this awesome relationship with them now is, you know, the end of year eight and I just assigned a two year extension with, uh, with you guys.
[00:50:29] So like, uh, it'll get to the decade point here in a couple more years. And, um, and yeah, just talking about the plans, you know, I've, I honestly with sight unseen, um, I love making those and I would. Do another one next year. If I was like asked to do one, but I actually asked pivot like what they thought about maybe passing the torch.
[00:50:54] Um, and so that's we haven't, I don't know that there's anything definitively set yet, but we had talked a little bit about, you know, taking that series and letting another voice in to drive it. You know, pivot has I mean, pivot just has there's so many talented writers, uh, on the roster, but there's also some really natural storytellers, uh, on the roster as well.
[00:51:20] And, um, yeah, you know, I had I had somebody in mind very specifically that I think would be. A very different voice than my own who, uh, hangs their hat on adventure as well, like big adventure and, um, yeah, so I, I think that I'm just, you know, we'll, we'll see, like, uh, if, if that's something that pivot wants to do is like, let somebody else take the reins of sight unseen.
[00:51:46] But I think it's just like a cool sort of like storytelling property that that pivot can kind of let somebody sort of steer the ship for a few years. And then it's I think you can keep it evergreen by, like, letting a new voice in, um, and maybe they have slightly different writing sensibilities and a different writing style, but also just a different voice and different, um.
[00:52:10] Personality type. So, um, but yeah, I mean, also like it pivots like, Hey, you know, maybe you could do it one more year. I'd be like, okay, you got it. Where are we going? Um, underexposed is definitely going forward for the next 2 years. Um, I have 7 locations on tap this year. I'm excited to kind of start a little bit earlier in the year.
[00:52:30] Um, so that we can kind of spread them out through throughout the calendar. Uh, Porter or not for Costa Rica will be 1st up in February. Great. And then it's, uh, we'll be in B. C. A few different times and in Quebec. So we'll be bringing Canada into the underexposed mix as well as, um, a few different parts of the country that haven't gotten a whole lot of love on that series yet.
[00:52:55] The southeast and the Midwest, um, the, or the. The Great Lakes region. Um, and then, and then, yeah, I'm in pre production on a feature film called Dirt Surfer. Um, Pivot knows about it and is supporting it. Uh, but it's, it's a, it's a, such a different scope and scale compared to anything else I've ever, I've ever done.
[00:53:20] Uh, the budget, you know, the, the, the size of like the production team. Um, the logistics like, uh, but the, the goal really with, with that is to produce a, a feature length sort of documentary style film. I mean, feature length being. You know, the 40 to 50 minute range. Um, and it's, you know, have it be a global film, but, but yeah, I mean, we're, we're ultimately working with a distribution company with hopes of finding a home on like a premium streaming platform, um, And yeah, it's like, just, it's just, you know, the, the, the, where that came from is just, if you look at like your HBOs of the world where they have a hundred foot wave, which is like this amazing docu series about this, you know, this, these surfers in Portugal and, uh, or this pursuit of a hundred foot wave in Portugal and, um, you know, climbing and paddling and skiing.
[00:54:17] Like they, all these outdoor pursuits have found this. These narratively driven stories they have at home on a very main, you know, to a very mainstream audience and mountain biking right now when there's a feature film, it's it's like a breathtaking shredded from like. Brandon, Brandon Faircloth, like Death Grip or, um, or like, uh, yeah, any, any number of like these really beautiful productions that only really speak to the core demographic.
[00:54:48] Um, and I would just like, to me, it's like, man, we, what, what we do on our bikes in the woods is brilliant. And there's so many good stories that come from this. And, uh, if there's an appetite for these other niche sports. Um, then there's certainly space for us to live there as well. So that's, that's what we're trying to do with Dirt Surfer is tell, tell a story in a way that we definitely will check boxes for the core demo.
[00:55:18] Um, but we also want to tell a story that if you've never ridden a bike before, it wouldn't matter. You'd still be invested and engaged. So, um, but it's, yeah, it's a ton of work. It's so much work. Like, it's, it's. Occasionally overwhelming, but, um, I'm, I'm very motivated to see that through because I believe.
[00:55:39] And the, the, the way that we're going to tell the story and that the team that we have assembled for it. So, um, yeah, it's been a lot, it's been a learning process for the last few months. And, and, uh, yeah, we should start production though this year and carry production into, uh, uh, early part of 2025 and then see what happens after that.
[00:56:00] Well, we look forward to seeing, seeing it, uh, come along as you hopefully share some, some sneak peeks as, as what you're working on for that one. Yeah, there should be, there should definitely be some sneak peeks, uh, uh, in the like next six months or so. Well, we've talked a lot about writing, but, uh, your family's also a big part of, uh, of your life.
[00:56:20] Obviously it's kind of where you've made your home. Uh, you know, On in previous videos, you take your your window when you get a window to go, um, when your family responsibilities are taken care of. You go for a ride. Um, what, what do you do for your wife? What's her window? Does she sneak out for a ride? Um, are your kids getting into writing?
[00:56:42] Is it is it is the whole family into cycling or is it, um, do they have different interests that, um, that take them, um, in other directions? Yeah, my wife doesn't ride. Um, She's a runner though. And, and, um, you know, we, we, we're all a very active family. So yeah, we, we just, you know, when I'm home, it's for sure.
[00:57:03] There's. It's like my, my window to ride. Usually it's like, honestly, like not hard because all of my kids are in school or daycare. So, um, I do a lot of my writing during the day when it's not a conflict. Um, but yeah, you know, make, I, it's important to me that, you know, cause I travel quite a lot and that's a big.
[00:57:26] It's a big strain on my wife. Um, you know, our kids are, uh, my daughter's actually turning three in a couple of days. Um, and then, you know, I have a five year old son and an eight year old son. And so they all, they all love bikes, which is awesome. Um, you know, Logan will watch a video of me. Sorry, I talk quiet.
[00:57:48] Um, Your dog wants to go for a ride. He does, yeah. Uh, so Logan will watch the video and I'm like, Hey man, do you want to get to that point? He's like, no, no, I don't want to have to like dodge trees like that. I'm like, alright, well, maybe we'll go in the woods and we'll just stick to the fire road's ground.
[00:58:02] I think like, you know, the spark, it's so easy to like the spark. Like, you know, I think sometimes it's a mistake to like show videos of like Screaming through the woods and, and have that be the expectation for like what mountain biking is for everybody. Um, but they all love riding bikes. Like, we, we, we definitely like to just do family rides through the neighborhood.
[00:58:25] Um, but yeah, they also have very different interests, wrestling. And, uh, unicorns and rainbows, you know, for my daughter and, and wrestling and, and, uh, I mean, I, gosh. My kids are just insane and awesome and brilliant. But, um, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not pushing mountain bikes. I don't, I don't want to do that.
[00:58:45] Like, uh, I, I, I don't know. I feel like maybe it's almost like I'm, I'm over correcting like I, because it's my job, I'm like trying to like really be hands off with, with shoving it down their throats where I probably could be maybe a little bit more like encouraging of them coming out with me, but I just don't want to, it's like, man, am I just.
[00:59:06] Am I trying to like shove the family business down their throats or not? Like, I don't, I don't want to do that either. So, um, it's, it's a funny, like, line to, to try to walk, but I mean, they love bikes. So I didn't, I didn't shove that down their throat. So like, that's, that to me is already like a good sign.
[00:59:22] And, um, yeah, we talked about getting them out into the woods, uh, here and, and just easing them into that and seeing, seeing, seeing where it takes them. But, uh, But if they don't like, you know, I'm okay with if, if they don't fall head over heels with mountain biking, honestly, it's more important to me that they just are active and that they like being outside like that, that to me, like if they're playing like my, you know, my eight year old's a really good soccer player and, um, If that's like his love, you know, then that's his love.
[00:59:52] That's, that's cool with me. I just, I just want them to be good kids, good, good human beings and like have.
[00:59:59] ​