Episode 167- Leadership and Legacy in Education with Duncan Harris

Dr. G. Duncan Harris has had an illustrious 30-year career in higher education, most recently serving as the CEO of the Capital Campus of Connecticut State Community College (formerly Capital Community College) in Hartford, CT, from 2018 to 2025 where he was responsible for the strategic direction and daily operations of the campus. The Capital campus hosts CT State’s largest nursing program, a number of innovative higher education partnerships with companies like Accenture, Travelers, and Pursuit Aerospace, and is known for its success in providing access to careers that disrupt cycles of poverty and equity gaps for its students, 70% of whom are Black and Hispanic. Dr. Harris is recognized as an expert in student success and retention, community college collaboration with non-profit and corporate entities, and takes pride in his role as a mentor/coach to many community college professionals.  Prior to his tenure at CT State Capital, he served in a number of roles including – chief academic officer, chief student affairs officer, counselor, coordinator of advising and was the founding executive director of the CSCU Kresge Student Success Center.  Prior to his work in higher education, he had a career in banking and finance.  

He has served on a number of boards during his tenure including the New England Board of Higher Education, the American Association of Community Colleges Economic Development and Workforce Commission, the National Council on Black American Affairs, Windsor Federal Bank, and the Wadsworth Athenaeum. He has received many awards for his contributions to the community, including the CT African American Affairs Man of the Year and the NAACP 100 Most Influential Blacks in CT Award.

He holds a Doctorate of Education from Nova Southeastern University, a Master of Science degree in counseling from Central CT State University, a Bachelor of Arts in economics from UConn, and a certificate in Management and Leadership from Harvard University. He is an proud, active, lifetime member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.  He resides in Windsor with his lovely wife of 24 years, Garcia, and two children, Grant, a junior, and Grayson, a freshman, both attending  Hampton University.

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Transcript

John Gardner: [00:00:00] Welcome to Office Hours with John Gardner. Uh, I am John Gardner and I'm pleased that you would join us for my conversation. I promise that you, this will be a conversation. You're gonna hear much more from our guests than from me. My conversation today with Dr. Duncan Harris and, uh, Duncan and I are both people who have a Connecticut.

John Gardner: History and I left Connecticut, um, oh my gosh, uh, almost around 50 years ago, I guess, give or take. And uh, Duncan has been spending a long time in a career in Connecticut. He's had a particular challenge of being, uh, a college president. In a very wealthy state where it's, uh, easy to overlook those who are not as wealthy as, uh, some of the people that he and I have met in Connecticut.

John Gardner: And I know that I lived around and, uh, found that I just wasn't a real American. I, I I didn't stay in Connecticut. But, um, it's a pleasure for me to introduce, uh, Dr. Harris, who. [00:01:00] Has been for some years and is making a transition out of the presidency of the, uh, Connecticut State Community College in the, the state's capital of Hartford.

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. And, um. I wanna talk to him about his leadership in this sector and how he practiced innovation in it. He had other choices in his life and he made this one. And, uh, now he's free to make other choices and I wanna talk with him about that. And, uh, uh, I'm not going to give him any, um. Advice about how to make a transition from one institution to another, because I did mine 26 years ago and I, I, I certainly did not transfer to transition to anything other but more full-time work, which may not be what he wants to do.

John Gardner: So, uh, anyway, I won't do that. So, I, Duncan, you just heard me introduce you. Why don't you introduce yourself? What, what, what do we want people to know about you initially? 

Duncan Harris: Well, uh, I, I'd start by giving honor to, uh, George and [00:02:00] Gloria right, who were my parents. And, um, George, uh, was, uh, one of 11 children, uh, born, uh, in 1933.

Duncan Harris: He's a child of the Depression, uh, in Opelika Alabama. And so, uh, George. Uh, was the third. And so he is the son of, of Katie and, and, uh, George Harris Senior. And so, um, he's the second, I'm sorry, the junior. And so, uh, my, my grandparents, um, moved north. And there was a great migration, like many, uh, individuals from the south.

Duncan Harris: Yeah. And he moved to, and they settled in New Haven. And, and what that allowed them, the harrises to do was escape a life of living as sharecroppers. And so my father actually picked cotton. Could imagine, and he was three or four years old, but he moved to New Haven and, and that allowed him to go to school and he did exceptionally well.

Duncan Harris: Uh, went into the Army, was able to benefit from the GI bill and, and became a teacher. And then later went on to become a college [00:03:00] administrator, which is the family business. He went to Michigan. Michigan State where he was a MOT fellow and completed his PhD in the late 1960s and actually became a, a community college president like me.

Duncan Harris: And so I'll share a little bit about that later. Really? Yeah. Where was he a community college president? He was at Essex County, uh, college in New Jersey. Prior to that, he was the dean of the school of uh, education at Trenton State. Which is now the college of, uh, New Jersey. And so he was the dean of Ledge and then he, uh, came back to Connecticut where he was a deputy commissioner for our state's technical colleges in the, the late eighties and early nineties.

Duncan Harris: Uh, Gloria, um, was, uh, was born on the small island of, of Nevis and, uh, once again in, in the late 1930s. And so she. Uh, was orphaned at a young age, and, uh, by the grace of God, she was, um, slated to, to be taken in by a, a family to become an au pair. But her she had an aunt that lived in New Haven, a.

Duncan Harris: And so [00:04:00] her aunt sent for, um, my mother and her sister, you know, they were 13 and I believe 15 at the time. And so she was also able to, to come to the United States, uh, like many others, and, and pursue a life. And she met my father, who's the name of the 

John Gardner: island again, that she came from, which island?

Duncan Harris: Yeah, so it's Nevis and Nevis and St. Kitts. I, I guess that the claim to fame is, uh, Alexander Hamilton spent a lot of time on the island of, of Nevis. It's actually in, uh, referred to briefly in the, in the, uh, play Hamilton at some point. There's some references to his time, uh, on the island in Nevis and small, little teeny island, maybe 16 miles long.

Duncan Harris: Um, she was born in a section called Dulin. And so, but once again came to the US. Late thirties, early forties. Uh, I met my dad. They had an amazing love story and they, uh, produced three sons and I'm the, the youngest of the three. So, so when I introduced myself, I'm very mindful to, um, you know, give, uh, individuals some perspective on, on my roots.[00:05:00] 

Duncan Harris: Education is a value. In our family. And, and so my father, um, having older brothers that were not allowed to go to school, it's certainly not lost on him. The power of education and, and what that's meant to him and our family. And so, um, so education is liberation. Um, I decided to go into the family. You said liberation, right?

Duncan Harris: You said education. Education, liberation. I say that to the students that I work with. You know, there, there's, I'd imagine at certain points in history a reason why, um, individuals would attempt to deny education to, to some folks, to, to keep them, um, um, some folks billions away from. Yeah.

Duncan Harris: Who you tell us who you tell. Yeah. So, so that family value and, um, you know, I, I started my career. I went to the University of Connecticut. I was an economics major. I, I went into work in, um, the financial industry and, uh, and I thought that's what I wanted to do with my life and then, and make myself and [00:06:00] others rich.

Duncan Harris: But, um, the company that I was working with had a pro. Program that, uh, actually required us to do community service. And I was involved with a mentoring program and I was working with young men you know, that were in high school trying to figure out who they are and what they wanna do. And whenever I would go spend time doing that work and then go back to the office, the, the work in the office just didn't have the same meaning.

Duncan Harris: And so I left you know, my career in financial services and I was able to get a, a one year, and this, you know, whoever's listening, sometimes you, you take a leap of faith. But, uh, I took a one year grant position working with Trio, with the, uh, SSS Yep. With a SSS Student Support Services, uh, program. Didn't have benefits and, you know, all this other stuff, but it was, it was, uh, uh, my, uh, entree.

Duncan Harris: Into the field. And so I, I did that for a year and then I, I, and then I started my career in community colleges. And so this is, 

John Gardner: well, I, I worked for Trio [00:07:00] for five summers. I was yeah, faculty member in Upward Bound at two different institutions, and it had a huge impact. On me as a young teacher, uh, yeah.

John Gardner: Under to understand my students and their communities and understand, uh, how poor kids and in the, in both of these programs, they were predominantly black, saw the world in our country very differently than I did, and it was so helpful to me. Honestly, I lived with the students one summer. I lived in a residence hall with 'em, and they even taught me how to dance.

John Gardner: I don't know. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. 

John Gardner: Yeah. Something you 

Duncan Harris: this day. 

John Gardner: It had an impact. So, uh, where were you working with Trio? What institution? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah, at the University of Connecticut. And so what happened was I was a, a student leader. Yeah. I was a student leader while I was there, Dr. Maria Martinez, and I, I say her, her name with the utmost respect and fondness and appreciation gave me a shot, you know, I interviewed with her.

Duncan Harris: I told her what I was trying to do. She, um, and then took me under her wing [00:08:00] you know, uh, and then after that, you know, encouraged me to go back to graduate school and things like that. But I was there for about a year. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, moved segued into uh, the community colleges in, in particular Manchester Community College in Connecticut.

John Gardner: How old were you when you decided to leave the financial services? Job you had 

Duncan Harris: 25. Yeah, so I was 25. Yeah. So I was 25 at the time. I was about, uh, three years into that work. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. And, 

Duncan Harris: uh, you know, was in a managerial training track. 

John Gardner: Yeah. 

Duncan Harris: And, uh, you know, that it was, uh, some fun times folks talk about, you know, passion and having a fire in the belly for the work.

Duncan Harris: And like I said, that that. Yeah, that I wish, I wish to this day, I, I, I knew the name of the young man that I was working with. He probably didn't understand the impact that he had on me, you know, a 16-year-old and I was, you know, sure. 25 at the time. And, uh, he really caused me to question. What I had decided to dedicate my professional career [00:09:00] to.

Duncan Harris: And as a result of kind of that work with him, I did a 180. 

John Gardner: Well, it sounds like this was an extraordinarily reciprocal relationship in terms of impact. Yeah. That's definitely, really glad to know that about you. You are the first guest in over 150 that opened with a description of his or her family.

Duncan Harris: The first. Wow. Yeah. I, I, yeah. I'm so thankful for, um, the role and values that they've instilled in me. Uh, they both passed. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. And, 

Duncan Harris: uh, and so whenever I can, um, honor their legacy and contributions to who I am, I do, I'm, I'm mindful of that. 

John Gardner: You just used the word legacy. Um, I, I, I can't leave that alone.

John Gardner: I'm sorry. No, the work, the work you've been doing. Were you conscious about trying to leave your own legacy, re recognizing what, [00:10:00] uh, older educational leaders can do, but were you conscious of trying to develop a legacy? 

Duncan Harris: Uh, I think my commitment was to. And leaving the institution in better shape than when I got it.

Duncan Harris: That's not an indictment of the work that had, uh, occurred prior to my arrival anyway, but more, I guess the metaphor would be the baton. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. Um, 

Duncan Harris: for that particular institution that was passed to me. Then the stewardship that I felt required to deploy in support of, uh, improving opportunities for the faculty, staff and students.

Duncan Harris: Sure. You know, while I was working there. And so, so, uh, there, there's probably vestiges of, of legacy. I'll be leaving July 31st, and so in a couple weeks. And I'd imagine perhaps after I'm gone you know, folks may talk about a few of the things that have been institutionalized there that [00:11:00] hopefully, uh, that merit preservation and continue.

John Gardner: What would you like, what would you like to be remembered 

Duncan Harris: for? I would be like to be remembered for, uh. Establishing or, or, or working to establish a culture where the city views the college as a ke cog in the educational ecosystem and a preferred provider when, um, identifying opportunities to serve the residents of Hartford.

Duncan Harris: Right? And so I think that's work that I, I did when I first started. People, um, you know, I remember the distinctly, the open forum where I had to come before the, the faculty and staff and kind of say who I am and, and yeah, talk about my vision. And folks kept talking about best kept secret endearingly, which was a, a problem for me.

Duncan Harris: Right. Like, you know, and and [00:12:00] so from day one, one of the things that I was mindful of was to, to, uh, broadcast as much as possible and use whatever, uh, modalities that were availed to me to, to talk about what we could do for people who came to us seeking to improve their, uh, their lives and futures, right?

Duncan Harris: And so, so it's funny, um. You know, I was, people talk about how, uh, you know, I'm always on Facebook and LinkedIn and things like that. And trust me, uh, when I retire, I will take great delight in not having to do as much of that. And, but I, I felt I had an obligation and requirement to open the doors to what the magic that happens, uh, capital is at, is a, um, it was a former department store known as G Fox.

Duncan Harris: And so it was one of New England's largest, um, department stores. It's, it's 11 [00:13:00] stories, 300,000 square feet. But, um, what, when you, you drive by it, you wouldn't know. All of the magic that happens in there. And so I felt it was my job to, to open the college up mm-hmm. To profile our students, to tell people and, and make sure that they're aware that this was, that this is their community college.

Duncan Harris: Right. And shame on them if they're not taking advantage of it. And all the resources that are, are truly their resources in a resource, poor city. 

John Gardner: How long have you served as president? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah, so it's been seven years, so I just, I started July 1st or second, 2018. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. 

Duncan Harris: And, uh, once again, I, I, I reached the seven years this July.

Duncan Harris: And then, uh, I'll be, uh, retiring in, in two weeks. But I do feel, uh, that I, um, accomplished, you know, what I was, uh. Um, sent [00:14:00] there and, and placed there to do. Right. 

John Gardner: You used the word stewardship mm-hmm. To describe, um, your, uh, self. It was your self description for what your Yeah. Role was. No other leader that I have interviewed has used that word.

John Gardner: Hmm. I'm really, I I'm two for two. Yeah. I gotta, yeah. Gee, you're, you're, so I want you to talk about what does stewardship 

Duncan Harris: mean? It, in my mind, it means that I've been entrusted to, um, provide capable, competent, empathetic data informed leadership of this particular institution. To marshal the resources.

Duncan Harris: And oftentimes people think about the financial as the res, but the primary resource is the people, the talent, the faculty and staff. And, [00:15:00] and that's a resource that I've been entrusted to provide leadership to in terms of getting achieving our mission. And supporting the students who've entrusted their futures to us.

Duncan Harris: Right. So that's, that's, and when I refer to myself as a steward and I, and of course I believe in servant leadership, but, but I've been entrusted to steward and be responsible for the resources, uh, availed, to, to being to the institution. 

John Gardner: You mentioned the resources. I, I don't know a lot about this, but I've seen to remember that in the not too far past Connecticut was under extraordinary attention because of the enormous disparity in the allocation of re to say to the schools in Bridgeport versus New Canaan where I, I grew up in.

John Gardner: Fair enough. And how, how, um, has Connecticut been, uh, treating the community colleges, uh, in terms of resources to serve your population? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah, so, um, for the folks listening, uh, you know, uh, Connecticut is you know, it's gonna be one hell of a, [00:16:00] a case study. In, in a few years, I imagine, uh, a study of with many, you know, graduate and doctoral programs and what have you as it relates to consolidation and mergers.

Duncan Harris: And so, uh, in, in 2023, July of 2023 Connecticut State Community College was officially launched. To get to 2023, you know, kind of that, that 10 years of work. And I've been around, so this is my, uh, 29th year working in our community colleges. And so I was at, uh, for 22 years I was at Manchester Community Colleges, and then my Final Seven have been at, at capital, uh, CT State Capital.

Duncan Harris: And so, but it, for, it took us probably about 10 years. And, and when I describe what occurred to individuals, you know, from outside of the state. What I'll suggest is that if you were to build a community college or launch a community college in 2025 would it look like what we did in [00:17:00] 1963? When Capital Community College was formed and many of the other, you know, that was the boom of, of community colleges nationwide with the expansion of community college in this most noble enterprise known as the community college.

Duncan Harris: And so, so Connecticut, like many other states, you know, we launched, uh, many of our community colleges in the right, 19, early 1960s. And so, so if you were to, to, would you do, would you create a community college in 2025 like we did in the early sixties where it was, uh, you know, 12 separate? Entities with 12, you know, HR departments and 12.

Duncan Harris: You know, web stewards and 12, uh, you know, it units and 12 instances of whatever the, uh, enrollment mechanism or student record system was, no. You would do what we've done, which is especially for in a state the size of Connecticut, which is have one institution. Multiple locations, you know, you, you allow those locations to preserve their [00:18:00] unique attributes and strengths and, and to respond to the, the local needs of the communities within which they exist, right?

Duncan Harris: And so, so what we did was we, we, in 2023, we, we merged all 12. Very painful. You know, you can imagine people that have given their, their life's work. To, um, you know, developing vanguard institutions and, and so for them to be enveloped into one was painful for, for any, um, you know, myself included, I carried a lot of water over the years for, for, uh, you know, the various institutions and sos and stuff to see.

Duncan Harris: But, but what I do know and, and believe fervently is that it's, it's good for students, it's good for our state and a a financially, um. Uh, strap time, you know, for all institutions, it allows us to, to maximize, you know, the, the financial resources that we have. So, you know, there's one purchasing unit now we don't need to negotiate contracts with you know, Lucian or [00:19:00] HP or whoever we got, you know, give us the price for.

Duncan Harris: 10,000 units, not 12 of us negotiating independently for procurement of equipment. And so, so it, that's what, what CT state is. There are things, and to your earlier, uh, inquiry about the disparity across cities and especially the urban areas, what it's allowed us to do is, um, there were things that I couldn't do.

Duncan Harris: With, as an independently accredited institution, there was, uh, you know, talent that I couldn't, I couldn't afford to have my own legal counsel. You know, there are things with, with technical expertise in, in IT and software systems where, you know, on my own I wouldn't have the money, but, but now we are able to buy one, um, license or, you know, an enterprise license and deploy that across all 12 institutions.

Duncan Harris: Um, there are things, so for instance, I have 64 full-time faculty. 17 of which we have the largest nursing [00:20:00] program in the state. I'm not sure if that will come up later but, um, but you know, I don't, I might not have the ability to, to offer calc three, right? Mm-hmm. But now, you know, with us being merged.

Duncan Harris: You know, my student can take a a, a class without having to, to apply to another institution and, and have all their rec and get that calc free that I might not be able to, to offer on my own or might not have the depth in my math department to offer. So, so there's, there's, um, you know, painful.

Duncan Harris: But in the long run, I think you know, it, it's empirically a good thing for our state. Uh, with what we've built. 

John Gardner: Well, I'm sure your attitude towards this is spoken volumes to the people around you because they do. Yeah. They do look to their leaders for signals about, you know, what might matter here.

John Gardner: And, um, I don't know that I told you this about me, but I did, I think I did. I, my first, uh, college teaching was in a two year public open admissions institution. And, uh, my, uh, the person [00:21:00] who got me to do that was my, uh, uh, first, uh, black boss, uh mm-hmm. Who happened to be in the Air Force and I was in the Air Force and he gave me an order to, uh.

John Gardner: On my off duty time to perform community service, to teach in a nearby two year institution. And it was transformative for me. And I, so I can relate to this better than, than some. And uh, yeah, and also because when I grew up wasn't when I was a kid in Connecticut, uh, in my high school, there was no reference ever to going to community college.

John Gardner: I didn't even know what it was. And, um, yeah. That was part of the whole discrimination and uh, how do you feel now about our larger country and how we're treating community colleges? You know, we've come quite a distance. These are still our youngest institutions. Yeah. You know, emerged, they grew out of organically school districts, uh, rather local school districts rather than, you know, colleges and universities, most of which did not grow out of local school [00:22:00] districts.

John Gardner: And, uh, how do you feel we're doing as a country in this regard? Yeah, 

Duncan Harris: it's interesting. Um, I think, uh, and like I said, this is year 29 for me and I re I recall what you're referring to. I mean, at one point there, the, the, uh, reputation was that they were high schools with ashtrays. I don't know if you ever heard that phrase, phrase?

Duncan Harris: I, yeah. Well, well, the idea that they were, um, designed for people older. Individuals who might have been coming at night or, or coming back for retraining versus, you know, a place or destination for traditional age 18 and 22 year olds. And one of the things that I've found is, um, and I think Connecticut is, is finally really, uh, onto something here.

Duncan Harris: With the investment that's finally appropriately, in my opinion, being made in Connecticut State community college in that, um, I feel like the millennials and Gen Zs, you know, they, they see what has happened to many of their parents being strapped with college debt. And this idea of, of, uh, what that means to [00:23:00] families in terms of being able to, to buy a home and to, you know, begin to establish generational wealth.

Duncan Harris: And so what many millennials and Gen Zs have done, they said, all right, well, I'm going to the smart thing to do. You know, I've got a good situation at home is to go to community college for the first two years. Right. Um, in Connecticut, the community colleges are free. Many of the other states are, are doing that as well.

Duncan Harris: Um, many community colleges, um, you know, sometimes people inaccurately equate affordable with cheap. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. 

Duncan Harris: And our affordability has nothing to do with. The quality of the education, if any. I've got PhDs from IU and Michigan and, and you name it, that are teaching in my classroom, and they're, they've come to us.

Duncan Harris: They, they could be at a research one if they wanted to, but they prefer to be in a place where the emphasis on is on undergraduate teaching and learning. Sure. And not having to publish and do research. And so, so [00:24:00] that's where, so I've got amazing faculty that I, I wish that I would've had instead of, um, you know, some of the, the professors that I had in during my undergrad, not an indictment but whose emphasis was on.

Duncan Harris: Oh, so how would, how 

John Gardner: would they, how would they be different Duncan, 

Duncan Harris: if you had Yeah, I, I, yeah. The difference is that that their, evaluated on the quality of their teaching, not their latest publication or the quality of their research. That, and that's what they're passionate about, and that's their craft, that's their legacy.

Duncan Harris: We're talking once again about legacy and them igniting a fire in the young psych or math or engineering student for that particular discipline. And sending them on into the world of work or to transfer and move on, right? And so I think that, that's you know, at the heart of it the [00:25:00] difference between the two.

Duncan Harris: Many times people say, well, when are you guys, you know, you guys are doing amazing work. Why don't you think about becoming a four year? And I, you know, my response is always I'd much rather be an amazing two year institution. Then attempt to become a four year institution. And, uh, which is a different animal, right?

Duncan Harris: Yes. And so, so, um, so yeah, I think that that's, that's part of it. Uh, and part of the heart of, of, of our work. 

John Gardner: I really, I I'm, I'm gonna roll around this phrase that you gave me for a long time. 'cause it's, it's triggering other things at me. When you said that in, in 1963 when, uh, I was just two years outta high school, then, um, not in Connecticut any longer.

John Gardner: I'd gone to college in Ohio. But, uh, we designed, uh, community colleges to be like high schools with ashtrays. Yeah. And you know, the, uh, okay, here you are looking ahead. About six. No. If you were to, if we were to look now, uh, well, not necessarily [00:26:00] 60 years ahead versus 60 years back, but how would you envision designing a community college in a way that would be more ideal?

John Gardner: Yeah. And how would you de you know, what would be the phrase? Yeah. Certainly wouldn't be, uh, uh, you know, a high school with ashtrays. Yeah. Yeah. What would that be? Um, you've seen tremendous progress in the way that you human beings in Connecticut have decided to reorganize this. Well, let's take it further.

John Gardner: What, what, how could we make that even better in Connecticut and elsewhere? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. I, I, I, you know, that's a good question and, and I probably won't come up with the best answer in the next 20 minutes but at the heart of it. What, uh, when I first started in, in 1996, um, we took great pride in kind of funny admitting the top 99% of any high school graduating class.

Duncan Harris: Right. You know, so we, we, our bread and butter, let 'em in. You know, the grade equalizer we're going to, [00:27:00] we're gonna give you a shot. And over time, you know, my, my views certainly pivoted to what good is a wide open door. If as soon as I get in I'm on my way out. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. Right. 

Duncan Harris: And so we've really pivoted to kind of, you know, um, not just getting in, but are they completing, are they achieving what they came here to do?

Duncan Harris: Which would be either to complete a credential that allows me to get a job to provide for myself and my family, or prepares me to be successful, uh, when I transfer to a baccalaureate institution. So that's one of the, the major changes is in terms of the outcomes and students achieving what their desired and articulated goals are when they come to us.

Duncan Harris: The other piece, John, that that's changed is, um, is that the, the, what we're able to do with workforce. In a way in which, um, you know, four year institutions aren't. And, and let me delve into that a little bit. [00:28:00] You know, it, it doesn't always require a four year degree or a two year degree to be able to, to, um, get the skills and attributes required to get a, a job and more than a job, a career.

Duncan Harris: That allows me to be fulfilled and, uh, provide for myself and my family and have the security stability that you and I have. And so I've pivoted to, you know, looking at, and we have some amazing one year apprentice programs. You know, I think I had shared when we were spent some time earlier this year about a, a line worker program that we were able to cr create, um, with Eversource.

Duncan Harris: That, um, is an 11 week program. That allows people to, to, to get their foot in the door and, and, uh, you know, make enough to, to have a, a stable life and afford a home and put money away for retirement and things like that. And it's not two years, it's not [00:29:00] four years, et cetera. And so, so there's a piece to, you know, getting back to your question, I'm not exactly sure, but there's a, a piece to the, the way in which our role in getting people.

Duncan Harris: To through and from us into. World of work or transfer, like I said and to move on. So, 

John Gardner: um, dun can I, I gotta stop you for a minute. I just cannot get outta my head something you just said. I have never, here's number three for this conversation. I have never heard an educator say. That what they have been doing or aspire to do is to admit the top 99% of the class.

John Gardner: Yeah. So Duncan, what if we had a country? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. 

John Gardner: The goal of which was to admit the top 99% to some form of post-secondary education. I, that, that, that's really what you're saying. You're saying that the top 99% doesn't [00:30:00] all let, well, it doesn't even have to come. To the, the traditional associate degree grant in community college, let alone the four year degree.

John Gardner: That there are other options we could be giving people. Yeah. But this top 99%, I think that's beautiful. I really have you ever said that in public to students? Have you said, well, I wanna welcome the top 99%. And I, I've said that, I've said 

Duncan Harris: variations of that. The other thing I'll say, John, is, is that, uh, maybe about 20 years ago, maybe a little bit more than that, we had a delegation from China.

Duncan Harris: Come visit when I was working at Manchester Community College and because, you know, the community college is a uniquely American concept with 19 one. I know it's, yeah. Yeah. And so they came to kind of study us and said, you know, how are you guys doing this? You know, you're, you know, admitting everybody and giving everybody a shot, I'd imagine, you know, there's a bologna model.

Duncan Harris: There's other models where you. In other countries, sometimes you get get placed and, and told what you need to do after you're 18. Right. And in America we're saying, all right, well, you know, some of the, you know, community colleges, [00:31:00] you know, we we're gonna select the top 99%. You know, we're selective admission in that regard.

Duncan Harris: I love it. 

John Gardner: You know what Duncan, you Duncan. I just thought, you know, I'm thinking about what is Duncan gonna do next? You could run for office. That could be your campaign. 99, top 99%. I love it. And I'm not just kidding. Yeah. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Well, we, we, the other phrase that's tied to that is, is we meet students where they are.

Duncan Harris: Right. And you've, you finished high school and you got, or you got a GED and we're going to see where you're at and then we're going to provide you with wise counsel. What could happen next for you. Right. And so, so that's, you know, and we take great pride in that work. And some institutions do it better than others.

Duncan Harris: And, and, uh, but it's good In noble work, 

John Gardner: you went to the state's flagship public university, you got a degree from there. Yeah. Uh, and economics, which often is called the dismal science, but you gotta be pretty smart to get through economics [00:32:00] because of the. Statistics. And so anybody who knows anything about the academic curriculum knows that, you know, you, uh, economics majors are no slouches.

John Gardner: So you, you got through that, you got a job in the financial industry. You're in Connecticut. Lots of affluent people around you. What made you decide, well, I know part of what made you, but you could have chosen at that time, I suspect any educational sector to work in. Yeah. You got a doctorate. What made you choose the community college sector?

Duncan Harris: Yeah, I, I think, um, you know, to be frank, well, I'll be Duncan, but I'll be frank with the, my response is that the, you know, there were a lot of of students that looked like me. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. 

Duncan Harris: You know, there, there, there aren't HBCUs, you mean, you mean there were, you mean there were handsome African 

John Gardner: American?

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that too, but, but, um, but the fact that as a black male. Of Caribbean and, and African American descent that, um, where [00:33:00] I could you know, deploy that family value as education, as liberation. And you know, my belief that individuals may, that have, you know, the, the brain matter.

Duncan Harris: Cognitive ability but often to oftentimes are, are opportunity poor, right? And so the, I when, and in my opinion, the community colleges are, are some of the primary disruptors of cycles of poverty, right? And we are, uh, we have over 700 students. Uh, we have, you know, 2,500 students, but 700 of them approximately have Hartford zip codes.

Duncan Harris: Hartford has some of the poorest zip codes in the nation. You know, median household income, 25,000 to $30,000, you know. Um, and so, but once again, for those students from some of those zip codes to come to their community [00:34:00] college and for us to be organized in the way that they have, that we address the equity and opportunity gaps.

Duncan Harris: That, um, you know, plague that particular zip code and get them through nursing or get them through a business degree or, or what have you. That's the, the difference maker. And so, so that's why I elected to do that. 

John Gardner: I love the phraseology you're using. Uh, you indicated that the role of community colleges is quote, the primary disruptor of the cycles of poverty.

John Gardner: That's very, very powerful. I hope you and I'll both see a time in America when we care more about that, but, this tell me, uh, I want our listeners, uh, for those that are not from the community colleges, what specifically are you doing that disrupts the cycle? I mean, you, you, you get a student with, um, a kind of education like the, you have the largest nursing program in the state.

John Gardner: The [00:35:00] employability of these students is gonna be unlimited, so there's no question they're not gonna be living in poverty. How does that. Though impact what happens after them be to break the cycle? You have to ensure that the benefits that any student gets from education lives on after him or her, that she or he can somehow perpetuate that.

John Gardner: So talk about how you disrupt that. That's another really powerful verb you disrupt. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. 

John Gardner: What are you doing to be disruptive and stir the pot? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah, John. You know, I, I, um, you know, a few weeks ago we had our, our commencement exercise and, and as I mentioned, we have the largest nursing program. So we, um, bring in 200 nursing students that you know, every fall we had maybe about 140 graduate this past spring.

Duncan Harris: And to see other individuals, one of the, the most diverse. Popular, diverse cohorts. 

John Gardner: Mm-hmm. 

Duncan Harris: Um, you know, uh, Hartford has a [00:36:00] large Caribbean and we are a Hispanic serving institution. And so you can imagine the complexion and the, the beauty of diversity in our, our graduate and the nurses that we're culturally competent nurses that we're with concordant relationships with their PA patients.

Duncan Harris: And so, so, but the what happened, you can imagine that when, similar to me. You know, my, my grandfather didn't go to school, but my father did. 

John Gardner: Yep. Your grandfather, the sharecropper in Alabama. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Yeah. Sharecropper. But he introduced, you know, the value of education. So, so with the, my Sunday dinner conversations weren't, if you're gonna go to school.

Duncan Harris: It was where you were gonna go to school. So, so me and my two brothers, we all have advanced degrees and, and you know, went, went to Rutgers and, and Jacksonville University, and they both have MBAs and I, you know, so, so similarly with my students from oh 6 1 2 oh or oh 6, 1 0 6, [00:37:00] when they are at graduation in May.

John Gardner: Those are zip codes. Those are your zip codes, right? 

Duncan Harris: Those are zip codes and your listeners can look them up. And look at the economic index and their, those, um, median household incomes, hover, you know, around some of the poor sections of Mississippi, or 

John Gardner: I have never, I have never heard a college president talk about his students literally with zip codes.

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Well, 

John Gardner: you do that to your, with, do you actually use those zip codes when you 

Duncan Harris: talk about your student, talk to your students? Oh, I, I'm interested in knowing where my students come from. Uh, I make sure that I drive through their neighborhood or, or visit them. You know, I, I grew up in the area.

Duncan Harris: Uh, you know, whether that's Garden Street or, or you know, but I, I, or, you know, Branford or Blue Hills or Albany Ave or Park Street, it's important for me to, to know where my students hail from and, and their reality, right? And so, um, so that's very important to me. And, uh, but once again, that, [00:38:00] that student that.

Duncan Harris: Was at graduation at the end of May, and their kids were there and see Mommy at the nursing pinning ceremony. And the fact that mommy now has a job at Hartford Hospital or St. Francis. Yeah. Or children medical and is making 60. Thousand dollars a year with her RN and has all the overtime to take us to Disney and to, to be able to, you know, um, yeah.

Duncan Harris: Make sure that I'm going to a summer camp that yeah. You know, is academic focused or whatever. So, so that's the disruption of those cycles. And it also is, is affirming that it normalizes the fact that we're, that, um, whatever the family is that. That we go to school, that we achieve certain things that allow us to have.

Duncan Harris: You know, access to the quote unquote American Dream, right? Yeah. And so, so that [00:39:00] happens. And uh, you know, you may be familiar, your listeners Hartford at one point, and in some regard is still known as the Insurance capital of the world. Yes. And so there know Travelers and Aetna and Hartford Steam Boiler and, and others, the Hartford, you know, are have, um, large footprints here.

Duncan Harris: And so the, you know, our college. Uh, provides access to those as well. Right. And so, so, um, you know, we have students that started with us and our Travelers Edge program shout out to travelers and the commitment and their willingness to, to lock arms with their local community college to create a program called Edge.

Duncan Harris: And we have students in the C-suite at travels that, you know, were some from some of those zip codes and came in Yeah. Got their business degree transferred. Travelers paid for them to get their bachelor's, and, and now they are doing amazing work in, uh, you know, a, a fortune five year company, um, that they had access to through capital CT state capital.

Duncan Harris: So, [00:40:00] so once again, good and noble work 

John Gardner: without, without your being specific to, uh, whomever your successor may be. In general, uh, if you. I'd like you not if I'd like you to create a charge Okay. That you would give new community college presidents anywhere in the United States. What would you tell them that you think our country most needs from them?

Duncan Harris: Yeah. In 

John Gardner: this role we're talking about Make America Great again here. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. 

John Gardner: Okay. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I'd suggest that. Please and thank you in advance for acting with a sense of urgency, right? And that that students have come to you and they have entrusted their futures to you and your faculty and your staff.

Duncan Harris: And I would implore them to commit. [00:41:00] To organizing the resources that they have at their particular institutions and establishing and creating a culture. Uh, and a level of fidelity to, to serve those students. You know, one of the things that I'll say is, is, um, you know, advising and you're, you're, you know, you're an iconic figure, right?

Duncan Harris: Is it's an honor for me to be here today, you know, speaking with each. About our work and our profession. But you know, you, you, you've been one of the ones to tout the importance of advising and you know, once again, this idea of almost the second most important enterprise after instruction, being, advising and it's and one class that a student didn't need to take, you know, three credits, $15 that they didn't need to take as one class.

Duncan Harris: Too many. And that president. Should ensure that there are people in place and pathways in place, and an appropriate level of front [00:42:00] loading to speak and spend time with that student to have clearly defined objectives and with what they're at your particular institution to do to ensure that, that 45 hours.

Duncan Harris: Of time that this individual doesn't have to waste. Doesn't happen. Right. I do a lot of, yeah, go ahead. 

John Gardner: I wanna point out again, your language. It's really hitting me. I didn't hear people talking in Connecticut this way when I grew up down on the Gold Coast. You just said there that you're part of your charge to, uh, a new community college president in the United States.

John Gardner: Yeah. Would be for them to maintain or well create, maintain a quote. Culture of fidelity. Yeah, a culture of fidelity. I love that Duncan, that you like that one too? Four John. That really, that really grabs me. You know, if I'll say this, some people may think I'm being kidding, but if I needed a speech writer, uh, I would be Paul Harris.

John Gardner: Okay. [00:43:00] Really? I, so in your, tell us, uh, tell these future community college presidents what a culture of fidelity is. Yeah, I, I, I, you know, there's been a 

Duncan Harris: lot of work where we're looking at policies and procedures that shouldn't be in place and that hinder, you know, that are unnecessarily obstructionist.

Duncan Harris: And so the, the responsibility, the care and custody that these leaders have to ensure and oversee. Um, their institutions to to, uh, reiterate those barriers. Right. And, and sometimes you look the other way and sometimes you just look at the stats and you don't realize that that was dunking or that was John and they took something they didn't need.

Duncan Harris: And, and now life's getting in the way. Right. And so there's a, there's a piece that I would implore them. [00:44:00] To put themselves in our students' shoes, you know, to, to walk. There's a guy, uh, Michael Baxton, who's president of Cuyahoga Community College, a phenomenal leader. Shout out to Michael. Mm-hmm. And he, um, prior to to, um, um, becoming president of, of Cuyahoga, he, um, did some secret shopping.

Duncan Harris: Right. And he, he, you know, I love that 

John Gardner: concept. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. And he came in and, and so when he hit the, he came, when he got the keys to the place, he hit the ground running. And there were certain components of their onboarding system that, you know, imagine a a, he has a JD and an EDD. And so imagine a, an individual without that or a new arrival to our country trying to make it through.

Duncan Harris: And so that's, that speaks and roles to the, so you're, 

John Gardner: you're urging new presidents to be kind of subversive, right? To fly into the radar. Go, uh, secret shopping. 

Duncan Harris: I, I had, that would be one tool in their toolkit. Don't get me wrong. No, [00:45:00] I'm, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. But you, you know 

John Gardner: Ronald Reagan, you may remember this.

John Gardner: You remember him? Yeah. Ronald Reagan used this phrase quote, there you go again. He said that in one of the debates. So I wanna nail you on this use and I, yeah. I'm gonna say Duncan, there you go again. And you went again by using iterate alliteration. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. 

John Gardner: You talked about the role of the new community college president as one of practicing, and I quote, care and custody.

John Gardner: Hmm. Care. Yep. And custody. Now custody has a, um, a parental, uh, connotation. Yeah. But I love that. Care and custody, 

Duncan Harris: the two. Yeah. I'm, I'm like you, John. I'm a counselor by trade too. Right. You know, so I there's a counselor side to me and, uh, you know, I know when, when people. You know, come and your, your buddy Rogers, you know, the unconditional positive regard for, you know, the folks [00:46:00] that we're working with, faculty, staff, or students.

Duncan Harris: Right. And, and, and I think there's room for. That to be a part of the psyche of our presidents. Right, right. And right. You know, and, um, and so, so yeah. I would encourage, encourage them to approach especially those new presidents. Hopefully they get a chance to listen to this. You know, as they're, they're, um, framing their tenure in the roles and perhaps there's a nugget or two out of this talk that they can pull out and, and consider adopting in their, 

John Gardner: At least now.

John Gardner: Let me talk about your role right now in transition. You are transitioning from one stage of life. Yeah. Other what have you what have you learned in, uh, your career Yeah. That affects not only how you work, but how you live Yeah. And gives meaning to you. 

Duncan Harris: Mm-hmm. 

John Gardner: What are you gonna apply from all that to whatever it is you're gonna do with your time Yeah.

John Gardner: Going forward. 'cause you got a lot of time left. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. [00:47:00] Well, and, and, and let me uh, pull back the curtain for your listeners. So, uh, John and I had the opportunity to have dinner on Easter Sunday. So, so John was coming to my school to mm-hmm. Work with, do some work with my faculty and staff. I wanted to thank him very publicly for that.

Duncan Harris: And, um, you know, John, I told him I was going to retire and, you know, go play golf and. You know, working my garden and this and that, and he, you know, kind of in, in, in a Gartner kind of way told me that that may or may not happen and that, that I'm at a point in my life and based off of the, my time on earth.

Duncan Harris: That many of the things that come naturally to me now would be of great utility for others. And that, um, I might find that work, um, very rewarding and fulfilling, um, and a great way to spend [00:48:00] my time. And so, so since our, since Easter Sunday John, I, I wanted to, once again, thank you. I've had a lot of time to think.

Duncan Harris: About kind of this next chapter. And, um, you know, I think there, there was another piece where you said, um, you know, you're, you're retiring, but you're just kind of moving on to it. You're retiring from state service or from that job not retiring from, 

John Gardner: I asked you to, I asked you to reconsider the use of the word retiring.

Duncan Harris: Yeah. And, and that really, um, hit home. I, I'd imagine that, that you and your listeners can hear that. Um, there are components to. My commitment to education that are who I am. It's not, they are patently 

John Gardner: obvious there. Yeah. There's no, uh, concealing them. Uh, you haven't sent anything. Try as I might.

John Gardner: Yeah. No, you haven't even tried. Don't. Yeah, that's what I was telling you. Don't try that. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Well, it, it's, I, I'm feeling, um, that I could, could be of, [00:49:00] you know, utility to folks and, and to. Share. And not, I have an obligation to not sit on it either, right? And to, to as appropriate. Um, oftentimes it's solicited you know, share thoughts that could be of, of use to others that are serving students, serving higher education and serving our country, right?

Duncan Harris: And so, so I, I, you know, once again, thank you for. For, um, you know, sharing that kind of provocative prompt. And it's kind of neat to come back and talk to you a few months later and share with you, um, you know, the impact of that, you know, special time we spent together a few months ago. Oh, 

John Gardner: thank you.

John Gardner: So it sounds like you have, um, you certainly are evolved beyond using the verb Val retire. 

Duncan Harris: Yeah. Yeah. 

John Gardner: Retire would require you to be reticent. And although that would be literative, it would [00:50:00] be a waste if you were Yeah, 

Duncan Harris: definitely not. Yeah I've moved on from that and, um, I'm actually kind of excited about the next chapter.

Duncan Harris: I feel, uh, once again, I've made a comment in this talk that we've had about feeling that I completed my work. Capital feel as though, uh, we, we also talked about the concept of legacy. I feel that there's, yes. Some things that, um, that, um, and I'd say suggest that, that one of the, my most significant legacy at the college was the people I was able to recruit and hire and, and set on their way.

Duncan Harris: Uh, at capital and in their careers. And so, so there's, there we've got, I've been fortunate to be the last the person to decide who gets the fortune, good fortune to, to serve our students. 

John Gardner: Yeah. 

Duncan Harris: So over the seven years we hired and some amazing folks that are there. 

John Gardner: So you're, you, you gave us a date in uh, July.

John Gardner: Yeah. And, uh, that's kind of a marker. Uh, how will people be able to [00:51:00] find you and communicate with you after that date? 

Duncan Harris: Yeah, so I'm, I'm on LinkedIn. 

John Gardner: Yeah. 

Duncan Harris: You know, and, uh, you know, I, I guess August 1st I'll. Kind of update my LinkedIn I, I'll be doing some consulting. I think, um, you know, I have some folks that, um, you know, different programs that I've worked with where I Sure mentored, uh, you know, um, you know, whether they're on a new college presence or academic or student leaders.

Duncan Harris: And so I'll continue to engage in that work. And, uh, but yeah, on LinkedIn I'll be on there and, and Facebook and that'd be great. 

John Gardner: Alright. Good. I'm glad we, uh, are providing that for our listeners. Uh, well, on behalf of those who can't communicate with you directly right this minute, I wanna thank you for what you've shared today, the way you've shared it, your candor, you, uh, I speaking for John, you've, uh, you've given me some hope and, uh, I, I [00:52:00] just, you know, feel very, uh, reassured and hopeful when I meet American educators who say what you say and not, I mean, you've said a number of things that are very unique as I've tried to point out to you and, um, yeah. So best wishes and, um, of course appreciate that.

John Gardner: You know, I want you to stay in touch with me, okay. 

Duncan Harris: Outstanding. Outstanding. And let 

John Gardner: me know how you fulfill that pledge not to retire. Okay. 

Duncan Harris: Thank you very much. It's been, it's been a pleasure and an honor. Thank you. Take care. 

John Gardner: I believe you. Bye-bye. 

Duncan Harris: Bye-bye.