The Ode To Joy Podcast
Welcome to "The Ode to Joy Podcast," a thought-provoking and uplifting show dedicated to exploring the transformative power of creativity, self-expression, and the pursuit of joy. Join us as we embark on a journey to discover the hidden depths of the human spirit and the boundless capacity for personal growth and fulfillment.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories of remarkable individuals who have embraced their internal muse or genius. Through their trials and triumphs, we explore the obstacles they faced in nurturing their muse and the strategies they employed to share their personal genius with the world.
We believe that every person possesses a unique wellspring of creativity, waiting to be tapped into. Our guests share their firsthand experiences, guiding listeners through their own creative journeys, and providing invaluable insights and inspiration along the way.
From artists to entrepreneurs, writers to musicians, and thinkers to dreamers, our diverse range of guests offers a kaleidoscope of perspectives on embracing one's passions and cultivating a life of purpose. We delve into the pivotal moments that sparked their creative awakening, the challenges they encountered, and the profound transformations that occurred when they wholeheartedly embraced their authentic selves.
"The Ode to Joy Podcast" celebrates the joy of self-expression and the extraordinary beauty that unfolds when we dare to follow our creative impulses. Through engaging conversations, we explore the importance of cultivating resilience, overcoming self-doubt, and persisting in the face of adversity.
Whether you seek inspiration for your own creative endeavors, encouragement to embark on a new path, or simply a dose of positivity and upliftment, "The Ode to Joy Podcast" is your go-to destination. Join us as we embark on a voyage of self-discovery, where the pursuit of joy and the celebration of personal genius reign supreme.
Tune in, open your heart, and prepare to be inspired as we uncover the remarkable stories of those who have embraced their internal muse and illuminated the world with their personal genius.
"The Ode to Joy Podcast" is available on all major podcast platforms. Subscribe today and embark on a journey to unleash your creative potential and find your own Ode to Joy.
The Ode To Joy Podcast
From Athlete to Astrologer Exploring Identity and the Cosmos
Have you ever wondered if the stars could be your guide through life's tumultuous journey? Evolutionary astrologer Ben Kibby joins us to shed light on how combining astrology with aromatherapy and shamanic practices can illuminate the path to personal mythology and joy. Our conversation veers into the unexpected as we draw parallels between celestial movements and the peculiar technical difficulties, as if Mars itself had a quirky sense of humor about our recording schedule!
From the wrestling mat to the enlightening tenets of Buddhism, Ben's story of identity transformation reveals the powerful shifts that can occur when we step outside societal norms. Ben and I engage in a heartfelt discussion about those moments in life that force us to confront who we are and who we want to become. As we converse about the liberating journey from an athlete in a world of toxic masculinity to someone more attuned to their spiritual awakening, it becomes clear that our greatest defeats may set the stage for our most profound growth.
We wrap up our session pondering soul contracts, the comfort found in the cosmos during times of grief, and how astrology can act as a navigational tool at life's myriad crossroads. Whether you're new to astrology or seeking deeper understanding of your own birth chart, this episode promises to offer a fresh perspective on the cosmic dance between fate and free will. So, join us for an exploration of the skies and the self, and let's discover together how the heavens might reflect our most human experiences.
Work with Ben:
https://www.the-alchemical-soul.com/
Follow Ben:
@the_alchemical_soul
Resources:
https://www.astro.com/horoscope
“You Were Born For This” by Chani Nicholas
Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
Follow on IG @elenabox
Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we talk about joy how do we cultivate it, how do we maintain it and what are the things that get in the way. I'm your host, shamanic Death Dula Alana Box, bringing you another part of our very special series, all about our inner muse or inner genius, and this week we are talking with evolutionary astrologer Ben Kibbe. I hope you enjoy. Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Ode to Joy podcast. I'm your host, shamanic Death Dula Alana Box, and I am here today with my friend Ben Kibbe. Welcome, ben.
Speaker 2:Hi Alana, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy you're here. Ben is a friend of mine who I met during my Shamanic apprenticeship with Jan Lucier, a very, very special human who I've also done two episodes with on the podcast. You can go and check those out for sure. A little bit about Ben he's an evolutionary astrologer and he also weaves aromatherapy into everything he does and integrates it into his astrology practice. He's also a fellow student of Shamanic practices and he's also really into mythology and studying people's stories, which I'm also very much into, and he was just sharing, before we got on the call, that he's interested in how we grapple with really our own personal mythology, which is sort of like the whole name of the game here, the whole sort of what I'm really feeling juicy about and what I'm really excited about. So I'm really excited to get into this conversation with you today, ben. Thank you so much for coming. Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We're getting into it now, y'all. So I always love to have my guests just tune us into where they are on the planet at this moment. So can you let our listener know where are you joining us from today?
Speaker 2:I'm from a small rural town in Connecticut called Grambi, so northeast of the United States.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. We love that. We love that. And we met when we were at Jan Lucier's apprenticeship. She was in South Hadley, which is that whole area is just very, very, very cute. I love going up there. It's beautiful. Yeah, the valley is beautiful. You're not too? Yeah, it's beautiful. What do they call it? The Happy Valley? Yeah, do they call it I don't know? Yeah, I think they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the valley or the Happy Valley, I'm not sure. But yeah, just you know tons of forest, tons of streams and gorges. Yeah, it's a beautiful country.
Speaker 1:We love a good gorge, so I'd love for you to tune us in. So we had some little technical difficulties. Can you fill us in right now, like what's happening in the stars at this moment? We are recording this right now, on December 17th, so we're about to head into the winter solstice. It's sort of like a big time on earth right now. I think we just started Mercury retrograde. It feels like there's a lot of stuff going on in the stars right now.
Speaker 2:So I mean, mercury retrograde is definitely part of it, but what's really interesting we can start with a little astrology lesson is that?
Speaker 2:So in astrology, you have the zodiac and then you have something called houses, and the houses represent the different sections of the sky, and right above us, so at the zenith of the sun's peak, is the 10th house, and this represents what we're doing right now. It's where you're most public, it's where you're putting yourself out there for public scrutiny, so it represents our career, podcasts, that kind of thing. And what's interesting is that right at this moment when we started the podcast, we have Mars, which is the most negative or challenging, malefic, difficult planet, difficult energy. Mars is an energy that causes disruptions and breakdowns, and so it's just interesting that we're trying to do this podcast right now, and I would say otherwise, there are a lot of positive indications that this is going to go great, but there is that. There is that energy that I was kind of like huh, I was curious how that was going to play out, because I did check that before we started and then, all of a sudden, we started having technical difficulties. So, yeah, pretty funny.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Well, it's just so interesting too, because I feel like, for people who are new to astrology, I feel like maybe there's sort of like this I don't know misconception Maybe. I'm curious to hear what your experience has been, where maybe they're afraid of kind of tuning into it, because they don't want to feel as if they their entire lives how do I say it? Like are ruled by it, but in a way, they are. How would you say, though, is like the most balanced way to approach it, because I feel it's sort of like a good kind of reference point to be like okay, so I don't need to be afraid to leave my house, you know, every day, because the stars are aligned in a certain way, but you know how can I kind of use it as a framework for my life. So what's your experience with that? Such, yeah, such a good question.
Speaker 2:You know it's, it's, it's this conversation to fate and free will is is really complicated.
Speaker 1:People have only been pondering it for thousands of years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know we're not any closer to the truth, I don't think, but I was just thinking about this today of just like yeah, you know, I would never want astrology to dictate whether or not I have a good day today, or whether I'm in like a good mental state, like kind of how I set the tone for the day, and so I don't think, I don't think that is what astrology is about. Because, you know, we all know, though, that there are difficulties life brings difficulties and challenges, and there are some days that bring up conflict and bring up obstacles, and other days that flow really nicely. You know where there's just like miraculous interactions and you know it just seems like left and right, you're just being hit by, you know, opportunities and fun experiences, and so I think that that is what astrology is describing. It's not describing how you react to those situations. So, ultimately, ultimately, I think it can be.
Speaker 2:It can be really helpful, because I also don't want to be scared when I see something in astrology that looks like a challenge. You know, like we're getting on this podcast. I don't want to see that like, oh my God, mars is in the 10th house, so this is going to go horribly Right. It's just like, oh Interesting, that's something we're going to have to navigate. It can just be something that you kind of, I think, approach with curiosity. More than anything is to approach those things that indicate negative experiences with a kind of curiosity as to just what the lesson might be or what you might be able to, how you might be able to grow or learn through those experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, I love that perspective. So I'd love to gear us in the direction of talking with you really about how you came to this moment in your life, where you're, I mean just for our listener. Can you just let us know how old are you, ben Kibbe, today?
Speaker 2:22. I'm about to turn 23 in January. I'm an Aquarius.
Speaker 1:He's an Aquarius and he's so young. I love that you are one of these people who I'm so excited to have met, because you really embody so much wisdom for your young age, which I don't know. I'm sort of curious Do you feel young or do you feel like an old soul? How does that land for you? Because I remember when I was your age and people were like, wow, you're so mature, I was like, yeah, because I've been through hell and back like you would me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my inner child has needed some healing. So I feel like I do think sometimes that I'm sort of in a reverse process of kind of bringing out my inner child more because of my upbringing and how I grew up. But yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean, it's just kind of been an instinctual calling that has kind of like gotten me passionately involved in wisdom traditions, and a lot of it has yet to be fully integrated and embodied. I'm still living at my mom's house, I'm still well on my way into feeling like an adult, but I've just been consuming this stuff for raciously since the end of high school, and so it's an interesting thing to balance those things, to have that perception when you're sitting down with people twice your age as an astrologer and you're talking about their life and maybe it sounds like you have a lot of wisdom, but you're still figuring it out just like they are. So yeah, I don't know if that answers your questions. Yeah, I think it does.
Speaker 1:I think it's just. It is fascinating because I feel like the thing that used to really frustrate me when I was younger was I did hold a lot of wisdom because of what I had gone through at a very young age and perhaps, like you too, I at least had to grow up very, very quickly. So, like you, I was also a bit of like a Benjamin, benjamin Button, ben Kibbe, where later in my twenties and even now like even now I'm 30s I feel like I'm more hopeful and more playful than I ever was, because when I was a teenager I sort of like I would go to school in like a business suit and high heels and people would be like excuse me, you can't enter this building, and I'd be like I'm 15. I had to grow up really, really fast. So it's kind of fun in that way.
Speaker 1:And then I think also I think a big mistake that perhaps people make when speaking with younger people is that just because you have sort of like a how do I say a shorter time span, just in terms of years of like experience, doesn't mean that you have any less wisdom. And I think, like what you said of sharing with people who are twice your age like it's. I think it's really important for people at any age to, I think, respect the story of people because, yeah, I think, especially what you share and what you offer comes from a place of what I have found and what you have shared, of deep study and deep understanding of many of these ideas and also just staying curious too. I think that's the fun part too is that you're still like in the I don't know, not want to say the beginning, but like you're in it. You're in it right now and it's exciting and it's fresh.
Speaker 2:So yeah, go ahead If it forces everyone to get to just like be, you know, to just kind of get their egos out of the way.
Speaker 2:And I really appreciated the people in my life who've managed to do that, and I respect them a ton for having the humility to sit down with someone who's significantly younger and like hear what they have to say, because, because I think with astrology, you know, like it isn't, it isn't coming from me Like it is, it is the wisdom of the planets and the stars, and so I think that's what helps me as well is, you know, knowing that I'm not a, you know, a person's counselor or therapist, just knowing what I'm passionate about, which is learning people's stories.
Speaker 2:And then you know, like I've just been studying this material and you know I'm interested in people like yourself, like Joseph Campbell, who are about, you know, living your personal myth, and it's all information, and so it really has nothing to do with me and how I'm living my life and what I still have to integrate and learn, and you know the parts of myself that I'm still needing to work on. You know, it's just it's information and it's just kind of making information available and yeah, yeah, so that's kind of how I've been, that's how I've kind of grappled with it, because it is I have struggled with a lot of insecurity, stepping into this role as as young as I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I'd love for you to sort of tune us into your own personal myth, because what I know of you, at least in your past, of when you were younger, what I know is that you were an athlete, and I mean it's just so interesting to sort of I'd love to hear about that evolution for you and you know, and to sort of frame it in terms of like, when was it that you sort of first came into contact with what I like to think of as like the internal muse, the internal genius or whatever that is of that like driving sort of factor, of sort of interest in this? Yeah, bring us along for the journey. When did that first kind of begin for you?
Speaker 2:And, and yeah, tell us a story. Well, you know, I mean, looking back, I guess I've always had a passion for storytelling because as a kid I loved writing and I would just write stories in my free time for fun and that was kind of my creative outlet as a kid. And yeah, you know, over the past decade I've done a complete 180 in my identity, at least on the surface, because for most of my youth I was intensely involved in sports, mostly wrestling, though I also played American football, and that that was my life and it was a very, you know, intense, I would say like toxic, toxically masculine environment At least that's how it would look to most people from the outside looking in. And so, yeah, just like a very different, I would say like I really internalized this and kind of like took that on as my identity for a while, though it was always. It was always very strange, because I never fit in socially to these groups. I always felt a lot of social anxiety, a ton of insecurity, and then there'd be these like weird breakout moments throughout my life where I was sort of like breaking out of that mold, finding my internal muse, without really knowing that I was doing that. So, for example, like sometimes I'd like I would like dress in drag for school photos in Halloween, like I would for Halloween. I would dress as a woman and I loved I always loved hanging out with my female friends. Like I felt way more comfortable socially hanging out in those circles and so there are sort of these hints at this other part of myself, but I didn't really know. All I knew is that it felt immensely liberating and fun and freeing when I did it and very empowering Like it felt very empowering to sort of like command that attention and like confusion and just kind of like embody it around these kids who knew me as you know, a football and wrestler and are just like what the hell? And so I would say that's kind of how it started.
Speaker 2:And eventually in high school, my junior year, there are just some fateful events where I had a really tragic defeat in wrestling my junior year and the following year I had a season ending injury at the beginning of the year, and during this time period I also discovered Buddhism, particularly Tecna Han and Joseph Campbell. This was an insane identity crisis, like the year between my junior and senior year. My heart was no longer in the sport. I was grappling with Buddhist philosophy, which was like so, so different from what I had grown up with, and it was just so refreshing, so made so much sense to me. But I was really struggling to, you know, I guess, bridge this like Buddhist philosophy of peace and non-attachment with this like wrestling mentality of like success and victory and sacrifice and domination, you know, and that made it really really almost impossible to continue doing what I was doing. And then I manifested a season ending injury.
Speaker 2:I don't think a lot of people realize that, but that my wrestling story ends with me praying at the beginning of the season before big tournament, wrestling the defending New England champion, all these expectations that you know, maybe I'll win a state championship this year and I was praying. I was like please I don't know if I was praying to God or what, but I was like, please, take out my knee. Is it like please? Just like do anything? Like please end it here, like take out my knee. And that match I tore my ACL.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, that'll do it. That'll do it. So that was my first experience of manifestation there.
Speaker 1:It's interesting I know a fellow, another athlete, who you know was playing competitive tennis and was quite, you know, kind of on that like pro track, and very similarly went through something else where she was like, yeah, I manifested it because I literally could not go on any longer. So, yeah, well, that'll do it, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the split in conscience was just was too strong at that point. But yeah, that freed me.
Speaker 1:And so then, after this injury, was that a moment where you then dove more deeply into these studies. And when did when did it come to astrology for you?
Speaker 2:Right, astrology Astrology happened my freshman year of college and it was just kind of a part of the lingo, like I don't know if you're familiar with the big three, if you've heard of that concept, but it's an astrology concept that refers to your sun sign, moon sign and sun sign, Of course, and that was kind of just like part of the language at the college I was at and I was completely unfamiliar with it.
Speaker 2:I was aware that I was an Aquarius, but my best friend was super into it and I actually met it with like a lot of skepticism at first. Funny enough, like I didn't like it, Very kind of like skeptical, and I was like what the hell is this? And people I didn't like, I didn't like the stereotyping and I didn't like being. You know, I was an Aquarius and a Capricorn and I felt like people didn't trust me because of that for some reason, and people thought I'd be, you know, too stern and cold kind of the old man I guess archetypes, and so I was just like I didn't, I didn't resonate with what people were telling me, but I suppose there is enough that made me curious and I started to do my own research and I started, as soon as I started doing that and diving deeper than it, I was like just so many, Just so many aha moments. And then the deeper I dove, the more clear the picture became. You know, like the more kind of detail I got into, the more I was seeing just like how, how amazing it was. In describing who it was that I am, I would say like it helped me a lot through the identity crisis that I was going through.
Speaker 2:In that transition phase that I was in between two selves, I would say astrology really helped me embody or accept that new person that I was becoming, and it also helped me integrate the old person that I was as well by giving me a language that was like, oh, like, that's why that's a part of my personality, or that's why I act like that or, you know, enjoy those things. So it was. It was tremendously helpful for me. And then it wasn't long until COVID hit my freshman year and I would say that's that's when I really started to dive deeper. And then, not long after that, I dropped out of college and just kind of made it my full time path, studying it and starting to practice on friends and family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am curious if you're, if you're willing to go here with me. I'm curious to hear in terms of your sort of heroes journey where this kind of all plays out, if you're willing to share about the loss that you experienced and the grief that you went through and sort of how that kind of played into discovering these tools.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, so during during COVID, two or three days after Thanksgiving, my dad passed away in a really horrific, unexpected motorcycle accident and so it just just really was shocking and painful, obviously. And I would say that initially astrology wasn't much because of what I knew about astrology at this point, it wasn't much help, simply because I wasn't looking at transits at that time. I wasn't, I was kind of just looking at the birth chart and I wasn't looking at like what was going on in the sky. And so I would say, you know, for that loss in particular, what was really interesting, how astrology started to play into that was months or even a year later, when I started studying ancient astrology and getting into these techniques of studying fate and fortune, and that that was kind of like a deepening of, I suppose, my worldview just being shattered, because with the natal chart, with the birth chart, there's like, okay, maybe, maybe we're just like projecting ourselves onto this random map of symbols and you know it's reflecting ourselves back to us somehow. But once I started getting into how ancient astrologers practiced this, then you get it's really it was about especially an ancient Greece and medieval times concrete prediction, and that's when it starts getting really weird, interesting yeah, really interesting where you start like having the power to predict things that maybe you don't want to predict or want to know. And it's very real.
Speaker 2:And you know, that's when I started looking at my dad's chart a lot and I started looking at the events around his death and it was just, it was just very clear.
Speaker 2:It was really helpful, I would say, in understanding my dad on a deeper level as someone who struggled with a lot of mental health problems.
Speaker 2:You know we'll never he never got a diagnosis, but you know, we know, we know he struggled, we know that he struggled to talk about the things that he was struggling with, and so it was really helpful and beautiful to see his path and see his struggles reflected, to see my own struggles, kind of like, through him and seeing how I had inherited certain ideas or beliefs, and then just seeing this thing, this event, as something that I don't know I don't know if I want to call it faded, like, if that was like, but to a certain degree it was and it kind of showed itself to be this thing that in some way was, was mirrored and and yeah, I suppose in my dad's case, was something that was liberating in a way, or at least you know my my indicate a possibility that it didn't end with that, that you know we sort of come in in this lifetime with certain work to do and there are certain events in our life that are faded based off of the work that we need to to do in this lifetime, and you know it doesn't necessarily end with our death.
Speaker 2:I mean, in astrology there are parts of the chart that sort of show us maybe where we're coming from in previous lifetimes and what our soul is growing into. And so, yeah, I mean those, those factors at least, like help me grapple with the unfairness of that situation.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting that you present this idea because it's something that I had never really tuned into before in terms of sort of looking at these events in my life that were, well, you could, you could, I'm sure, do it for anything positive or perceived, you know, perceived positive, perceived negative, or sort of these events that were devastating, right, is that? Perhaps there was a sense of it. You know, I do firmly believe that we receive the lessons that were meant to receive in this life. My perspective is that it's almost like for the, for our own soul, evolution, right. And so I kind of take this perspective of like all right, you know, not necessarily to put myself in dangerous situations on purpose, but to a degree I'm like, okay, so what's going to challenge me to grow? And where are these sort of places in which my, my ego is getting triggered or old wounds are getting triggered, and how can I kind of like, yeah, work through it, push into it in a way, yeah, yeah, I mean that as.
Speaker 2:So, you know, as an evolutionary astrologer, that's definitely the perspective that I've always taken with astrology from the beginning, and I'm just kind of like ended up finding the astrologers and the type of astrology that resonates with me and that's taking this evolutionary perspective, which I think is just kind of, I mean, that is, that is life, life is, is evolution. You know the universe and life on earth, and what we know about life in the universe is that there is, there does seem to be this like progressive growth and consciousness, and so, whether you experience positive things or difficult things in your life, you can rest assured that, on some greater scale, whatever it is you are going through in your life is contributing to something greater than yourself, is contributing to our learning and our growth, and so I think that is really an empowering way to look at astrology and to to look at our lives. You know, even even the stuff that is really painful is to look at it. As you know, even if you don't like thinking that maybe it's something that you chose for yourself, at least seeing it as you know, maybe not your ego, but but maybe your higher self, you know, maybe that as as consciousness, maybe you did choose all of these life experiences because, because it's necessary for for us, for humans, to learn to grow, even the most you know tragic events that someone can imagine. I mean, yeah, it's horrible and unspeakable and it's, it's a reality that unfortunately exists and, you know, hopefully we can learn from it and grow from it as a species, as people.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think that is really healing and empowering if first you just acknowledge what someone has been through and not try to First you just have to sit with it. I think and that's the hardest part, as an astrologer, as a person, I think that you hear something that's really painful and you want to just explain it away or immediately jump to. Well, this was the meaning of that or the highest purpose of that. And people aren't ready to hear that right away, rightfully so. But I think at a certain stage it is helpful and for people to see that, wow, maybe my life has been full of tragedy, but maybe that makes me really special in some way and makes my life really significant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that perspective. You know it can be sort of like a tough pill to swallow in some respects for some people. I really loved the book Do you Know? Soul Contracts by Carolyn Miss.
Speaker 2:I've heard of it, but I know, but I haven't heard that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good one. It's sort of that kind of perspective of the idea that we sort of have these set of lessons that our soul kind of like predestines or plans to have within each lifetime. And then there's certain other souls that we kind of come into contract with, like I'm going to fall in love with you, like you're going to betray me, I'm going to, you know, all the good things and all the bad things be kind of like predestined. This is the idea, yeah. But I also really like that idea of like yeah, that our souls are going to go through these sort of trials. I think it's sort of I think of it in terms of like, all of this is just consciousness, experiencing consciousness, and it's kind of like anything that happens on this earth is like God saying like yes, and in that way also, yeah, it's like we go through these really horrible, terrible things, but we also go through these really beautiful, expansive things as well, and it's sort of all part of this, yeah, expansion of consciousness.
Speaker 2:I like this idea that I heard recently that you know, I don't know, it's just a nice thought to think about. Our time here on earth is that you know demigods and gods and these like higher dimensional beings are all like fighting or kind of like trying to get an incarnation on earth, like they're all dealing with each other and sort of like fighting for an earth incarnation. Because of the qualities that your soul can develop here, anatomy is just like such a powerful idea that there are gods in these heavenly places that envy us because of the pain and because of the growth that's possible through a short human life. You know, rather than seeing this as like I don't know, a fallen world, or you know we're all here because we're sinful and unworthy. You know, maybe we're all gods that got lucky.
Speaker 1:That's how I feel. I'm like, wow, cool, and there's so much to experience too that I'm like, wow, this is great. I mean, it's heartbreaking in so many ways, but there's also so much beauty as well to experience, so I'm having a great time. I'm curious because I really love what you shared about how looking at our charts and perhaps also our loved ones charts, perhaps after they've passed, and how it can sort of give us perspective, and you said that some people are really not ready to see it, and see it that way. I love that, though I think perhaps it would give a lot of comfort to people who perhaps experienced sudden loss or, you know, for any kind of loss.
Speaker 1:It's like we eventually come to a point where we're able to kind of see those things. Yeah, and I'm curious actually, in that same way, with your tools, are you able to then look at someone's chart and kind of like see the path set before them? And then, when we speak about, you know, free will, are there certain moments or kind of like choices? Say, if somebody's kind of in this, like fork, you know fork in the road, kind of moment, are you able to look at somebody's chart and be like, okay, so if you choose this, it may pan out in that direction. Or if you choose this, it may pan out in that direction Like what, how do we, how can we use this in terms of like, how we're living our lives now going forward?
Speaker 2:I think that, yeah, I think that everything in astrology has its positive and negative manifestation, like it's more constructive possibilities and it's more negative possibilities.
Speaker 2:And so if someone comes for a consultation and we're looking into the future of what the next year is going to bring, I think that you can describe to them like here are the more positive, constructive manifestations of this possibility.
Speaker 2:Like here are the energies involved that you can't change, that is faded in your life. Like maybe you're, you know, housing situation, maybe you're moving and you, you know, have your, your changing jobs and your changing homes and you're encountering this big transition in your life that in itself maybe you can't change, maybe that's something that is just in the stars, that is kind of faded, but then you know, depending on how you react to that, like here are the positive, here are the positive ways that that could manifest, and here here are the difficulties, here maybe the pitfalls of that energy. And then so yeah and so then then you always have free will in how that, in how you handle that situation. You know, whether you, whether you flounder, or whether you take that opportunity as an opening to to grow and to meet new people and to grow as a person.
Speaker 1:I'm curious, if you could, I could keep thinking of this tool as as because I just love that, you also love Joseph Campbell and then I'm thinking of it sort of as like this tool within that, the toolkit of someone on their hero's journey. And I feel like I run into so many people who are maybe sort of aware of astrology and maybe they know their big three, but then they're like, well, I kind of I know my big three, I have like this astrology app, but I have no idea what it means. Could you help our listener if they're just tuning into astrology and they're wanting to put it in their toolkit on their hero's journey, but they don't know where to begin, what would you recommend as sort of like an intro to get them sort of, I guess, tuned into their own chart and all this Like, what would you recommend for someone who's new?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I first. I mean, I don't know, it depends on who you are, but there's a book recommendation that I would make that if you kind of are a beginner and have like a really, really basic or maybe even no understanding at all, let's see I might have the book behind me. It doesn't look like it, so I'll actually look that up right now while we talk.
Speaker 1:but the other.
Speaker 2:I mean I would just so I would go on to astrocom is the website that I would use to find your birth chart. I would definitely. I would try to get away from I wouldn't not use co-star, but I would try to find an app and maybe co-star has this now that gives you the circular birth chart. I know, when I use co-star, when I first started out, it just gave me a list of the planets and what sign they were in. So I would first use like an astrology website. So astrocom is a good one and I would just start. You know, you just take it. You just take it one planet at a time and there are four main components of a birth chart that you want to look at. So there are the planets, there are the signs, there are the houses and there are the aspects. And when you're just starting out maybe you just want to look up. You know each of the planets in their zodiac signs. So what does the sun and Aquarius mean? What does the moon and Pisces mean? What does Mercury and Virgo mean? So on and so forth.
Speaker 2:The planets are the who in the chart. The planets are the pantheon of gods and goddesses that we find in mythologies and stories across the world. They are as Joseph Campbell put it, they're the personifications of nature. They're the force of desire and will and thought and feeling. You know that's Mars, the sun, mercury and the moon. So they are sort of like the people inside of us. Those are the planets. And then the zodiac signs are the how. How does your moon? How do your feelings express themselves? Do they express? You know, like kind of like, what do you need for your emotional nurturance? Are you a Capricorn? Do you need structure and discipline and goal setting, or are you someone who really needs like a close, intimate group of friends and like, obviously we both have a little bit of these things in all of us. But that's kind of how the planets operate. So that's the who, the how.
Speaker 2:And then you have houses, which is where houses are, where in your life, the different like aspects of life, our family, our career, our relationships, traveling, you know the sort of like different places of life, you know your planets will operate, will kind of like have more influence over certain parts of your life as well. And then the last component is aspects, which is the relationships between the planets and how they interact with one another. So, for example, if you want to learn about your sun sign, first, I'm an Aquarius Sun. So first I'm just going to look up, you know, sun and Aquarius and you just see, you know there are all kinds of astrology websites that will give you different definitions and you'll take what you can gather from that. And then you look up the Sun and the second house and it's like, okay, so you know my values and like the second house has to do with our resources and our values, and so you know there's kind of like a combination of that house and Aquarius.
Speaker 2:And then the third thing you would look up to understand your sun sign is what planets are in relationship to your sun sign. So maybe you have Neptune right next to your sun and so Neptune, being the planet of mysticism, is going to heavily influence your sun. Or you know your purpose and you know this all sounds really confusing right now because we don't have like a physical image but the birth chart, the birth chart will show you. You'll see that, okay, my sun's in Aquarius, it's in the second house, and then you'll see these angles, these lines being drawn between the planets, and those are the aspects. So you'll be able to see like oh, there's a line between Jupiter and the sun. So you know, when I'm thinking about my sun sign, you have to include Jupiter and what Jupiter means as a part of your life's purpose or hero's journey.
Speaker 2:That's the last thing that I'll say about our hero's journey is that that's our sun. Our sun sign is what people typically think of as their zodiac sign, the zodiac sign that you were born under. That's your sun sign. That's where the sun was when you were born, and the sun doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your personality and that's where people. That's one of the main misconceptions, I think. An astrology is sun sign astrology. It doesn't have to do with your personality. Sometimes it can, depending, but what it really represents is your hero's journey. So, Alana, what's your sun sign?
Speaker 2:I'm a Virgo, you're a Virgo, so Virgo, you know I mean it could play into your personality and the stereotypes personality stereotypes with Virgo have to do with, you know, being meticulous and being a perfectionist and they're very detail oriented. They're good at, like, fixing and arranging things, and so you know that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be like this type A personality, but it means that your your arc in this lifetime, your hero's journey is going to have to do with Virgo's archetype, virgo's story and the ability to bring spirit into matter, which is what what Virgo is about, being opposite Pisces. It's really about you know, how do we create a structure using the earth, using the earth element and materiality? How do we, how do we arrange things the right way to make spirit come to life through form?
Speaker 2:I never knew that and I love that yeah it's much better, right, like people, if people, if people, if only people knew that, you know it's, it's, it's so much, it's so much easier. Like my mom is an Aries son and she's not hard-headed or aggressive or stubborn or any of the Aries stereotypes, but her life's arc, her life's journey, has absolutely had to do with embodying. You know her autonomy and her individuality and you know living from her instinctual, spontaneous nature. You know like it's not so much about you know what you act like, it's more about your, your story of you know learning how to manifest this particular energy into your life. So that's the sun sign, it's your hero's journey, basically.
Speaker 1:I've always heard that it was like our sun, our, our how do I say our moon sign was sort of like our internal emotional space, and then our rising sign was how the world, or like sort of like an outward projection of like how we present ourselves to the world and how the world sees us. Is that accurate from your perspective, or what do you think about?
Speaker 2:that, yeah, yeah, I think that's so. I mean, I think the ascendant sign so how people see us, that's your personality. So your ascendant sign definitely has more to do with what you act like. It's. It's your mask, for a lack of a better word, and everyone has one, everyone has a persona, and that's it also.
Speaker 2:The ascendant also has to do with, like, your kind of like approach to life. So, yeah, and then the moon has to do with our like internal and like habitual self. Has to do with things that are like what's what's what's what's your comfort zone, what's kind of like what is your habitual way of behaving, kind of how you act and move through the world on a daily basis, and then so the sun is more like what's this overarching purpose? And I like to use how you know, the moon reflects the sun's light, so the sun is your purpose, and then the moon reflects that purpose, and so your moon sign has to do with how are you manifesting that purpose. Has to do with, like, how are you moving through the world as a person, you know? So yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 1:I'm excited. This, I mean, I think it's fascinating and I feel like it's just like we're saying in the beginning of our conversation it's just a good tool to have in your toolkit To give perspective on your life. So so much more than I'm interested in, and we may have to do a part two and a part three because I have more questions, but in interest of time, I'd like to wrap it up and I'm gonna. I'm curious is there? How can people get in touch with you? How can people work with you? Do you have anything interesting coming up that you'd like to let people know about?
Speaker 2:yeah, so my my website is the dash alchemical dash soul dot com. The alchemical soul is my business name. My Instagram is the same thing, but it's the underscore alchemical, underscore soul and you know you can find wings, links to my, my calendar and Just like videos and stuff that I'm creating. And then the one thing that comes to mind that may be of interest to people is a class that I'm teaching on February 4th at Serenity yoga and wellness in South Hadley. It's going to be a three hour lecture on how to read your birth chart. So there you go. I mean really just scratch the surface here. So if you like what you heard and you want to know how to interpret your birth chart and get like a step by step guidance of how to do that for yourself and others, I'll be teaching a class on February 4th, I believe, one o'clock at Serenity yoga and wellness in South Hadley.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, I'll definitely include all of the links in the show notes. So, if our listeners interested in getting in touch with you, I think I mean, probably it would be so wonderful to do a reading with you, and so it'll all be in the show notes for a listener who's interested in it, and will also include the information for the event, which also sounds super juicy. And, yeah, I'm just excited for everything that you're sharing and how you're letting your internal genius come out into the world, and it's, it's such a pleasure to know you and to, yeah, just witness you stepping into this wisdom. So, thank you so much for sharing your voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much. Would you mind if I also shared the book that I mentioned? I would love it. I think I found it okay, so all right. So it's by a Shani, I think that's how you pronounce her name, shani Nicholas it's called. You were born for this astrology radical self acceptance. So yeah, there you go we love Chani.
Speaker 1:She's great. She also has an app that my friend has, but I don't have it apparently. It's quite good, she's awesome yeah, she's great.
Speaker 2:She's definitely trusted, astrologer.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, that's the thing too, I would say, is find someone that you trust, that you resonate with. I think that's the most important on the journey of tuning into your astrology absolutely wonderful, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show, ben Kibbie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me well, dear listener, I hope you have enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. This has been another episode of the ode to joy podcast. Thank you so much for tuning into this latest episode, dear listener, and if you enjoyed it, why not go ahead? Hit the subscribe button? And while you're there, why not throw in a couple of stars maybe two, maybe three, maybe four, maybe five and also write us a review? I would love to hear how you are receiving these conversations. It is my sincere pleasure to bring you these episodes every week, sending you so much love, and I'll talk to you again very soon.