The Ode To Joy Podcast
Welcome to "The Ode to Joy Podcast," a thought-provoking and uplifting show dedicated to exploring the transformative power of creativity, self-expression, and the pursuit of joy. Join us as we embark on a journey to discover the hidden depths of the human spirit and the boundless capacity for personal growth and fulfillment.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories of remarkable individuals who have embraced their internal muse or genius. Through their trials and triumphs, we explore the obstacles they faced in nurturing their muse and the strategies they employed to share their personal genius with the world.
We believe that every person possesses a unique wellspring of creativity, waiting to be tapped into. Our guests share their firsthand experiences, guiding listeners through their own creative journeys, and providing invaluable insights and inspiration along the way.
From artists to entrepreneurs, writers to musicians, and thinkers to dreamers, our diverse range of guests offers a kaleidoscope of perspectives on embracing one's passions and cultivating a life of purpose. We delve into the pivotal moments that sparked their creative awakening, the challenges they encountered, and the profound transformations that occurred when they wholeheartedly embraced their authentic selves.
"The Ode to Joy Podcast" celebrates the joy of self-expression and the extraordinary beauty that unfolds when we dare to follow our creative impulses. Through engaging conversations, we explore the importance of cultivating resilience, overcoming self-doubt, and persisting in the face of adversity.
Whether you seek inspiration for your own creative endeavors, encouragement to embark on a new path, or simply a dose of positivity and upliftment, "The Ode to Joy Podcast" is your go-to destination. Join us as we embark on a voyage of self-discovery, where the pursuit of joy and the celebration of personal genius reign supreme.
Tune in, open your heart, and prepare to be inspired as we uncover the remarkable stories of those who have embraced their internal muse and illuminated the world with their personal genius.
"The Ode to Joy Podcast" is available on all major podcast platforms. Subscribe today and embark on a journey to unleash your creative potential and find your own Ode to Joy.
The Ode To Joy Podcast
The Sacred Dance Between Birth and Death
What happens when the veil between worlds grows thin? Both birth and death represent profound thresholds where we're asked to surrender while somehow maintaining our power. After returning from maternity leave, host Elena Box welcomes her birth doula Alexandra Monahan for a raw, intimate conversation about resilience during life's most challenging transitions.
Alexandra shares her journey of walking her mother through end-of-life care after a long battle with cancer and addiction. This profound experience directly influenced her approach to supporting birthing families, especially in creating sacred space during transformative moments. The conversation reveals why Elena specifically sought a doula who understood death transitions to guide her through birth—recognizing the spiritual connection between these universal human experiences.
Then Elena opens up about her own dramatic birth experience—a placental abruption that forced her to abandon her carefully crafted home birth plans. With continuous bleeding, medical interventions, and moment-by-moment life-or-death decisions, Elena faced her greatest fear while still maintaining agency in her care. Through their shared recollections, we witness how resilience manifests not in controlling circumstances but in how we respond when plans crumble.
The most powerful revelation? Surrender does not mean giving up bodily autonomy. Even in the most challenging circumstances where options seem limited, we always retain the choice of how to meet the moment. Both women emphasize that difficult experiences don't diminish the beauty of life's transitions but highlight our capacity to find strength in unexpected places. Their wisdom extends far beyond birth and death, offering profound insights for navigating any of life's challenges with grace, presence, and what Elena calls being "badass about it."
Ready to build your resilience for life's transformative moments? Listen now and discover how to hold sacred space even when everything goes differently than planned. Then follow Alexandra @moonandSundoula to learn about her upcoming village-building workshops.
Listen to my birth playlist: PORTAL
Shout out to Gaia Midwives for their impeccable care!
SuperFeastFamily-owned seller of Di Tao Medicinal Mushrooms and Tonic herbs.
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Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
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Welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast, a show where we talk about joy how do we cultivate it, how do we maintain it and what are the things that get in the way. I am your host, shamanic death doula comedian, alena Box, coming to you with a very special intro to our next season on the podcast. We are talking all about resilience and it is such a juicy episode I can't wait for you to listen. Enjoy. Hello, dear listener, and welcome to the Ode to Joy podcast. I'm here, elena Box, back with this next season of the Ode to Joy podcast, all about resilience, and I have the honor to invite on my doula and friend, alexandra Monaghan, to the show. Welcome, alex.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy you're here and it's such a joy to open up this next season of the show with you. I took quite a hiatus during my pregnancy because I was very much in this state of needing to be in the cocoon, and that's really where I've been. That's where the show has been is I was in this state of the ultimate form of creation, which was creating my daughter, or allowing my daughter to create herself through me, and so I have this really wonderful privilege to bring you on here to christen, I want to say, this next season of the show. So thank you for coming. Honored, yeah, so let our listener know where are you joining us from today?
Speaker 2:Today I am joining you from Island Park, New York, the South Shore of Long Island, yeah, where I've resided for quite some time now.
Speaker 1:She's a strong island girl, you know it. Yeah, that's right. So a little bit about Alex. She is a doula and a motherless mother, which is a really beautiful way of, I guess, explaining that you are a motherless mother and that your mother passed. And so I'd really love to begin this conversation with, I think, one of the most important things in selecting a doula, which I highly recommend. My husband, patrick, said you were worth every penny, so absolutely Anybody listening, she's your girl, but it's finding a doula that you really resonate with, and one of the things that really brought me to you was this experience of knowing that you had walked your mother through her death experience and being who I am, and having walked my father through his death experience and then going into this world of becoming a shamanic practitioner and a death doula, I knew that, as I approached this portal and this threshold of bringing life into the world, that I knew I wanted someone to walk me through it who had also walked someone through their death, because of this wonderful relationship between birth and death, um, and so I'd really love to open it up to you and, um, I'd love to hear from you about your experience, about your experience of walking your mother through her death experience and how that informed how who you are, um, and perhaps you can kind of give us a little bit of insight into, yeah, how that informs who you are as a doula as well.
Speaker 1:It's a big question, so feel free to take it however way you want to dive in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I feel like the best way is to kind of just dive in right Um, but I think it also wouldn't be fair to me or my mother to explain me, guiding her, without maybe going backwards a little bit before, before she was even sick.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, um, my mom, my mom and I have always had a really, really unique bond. Um, my parents were divorced when I was so young. I mean separated, maybe I was three at most. I don't really remember growing up with my father. It was me I have an older sister and my mom, and from when we were little, we were the three amigos. We could tackle anything together, the three of us against the world, and we really did have a beautiful childhood. She remarried on the millennium, so I was almost nine years old when she was married and it was such an amazing gift. My stepfather is still so present in my life and is a huge part of my journey in all of this too, which is the only reason why I bring him up Um.
Speaker 2:But as my mom got older, she had a lot of struggles, a lot. When her own brother committed suicide in um, wow, 2010, yeah, 2009, 2010. I'm I'm struggling with the exact year. It really changed the trajectory of her life and she was an addict, um, which brought its own emotions and complications into our relationship, but that was really a pivotal point in our relationship, because when she had lost him, we all struggled in such unique ways. It was just the two of them were the only siblings Me and my sister were the only kids on that side of the family, um, and she dove deep into her addiction and she overdosed herself. I was in college at the time and really from that moment is really when it all shifted. So again, this is way before I had my own family became a doula, and when I think back to that time of like carrying her during her own deep grief, while also holding obviously so many different emotions, with my own loss of my uncle, and then I mean my mom left behind a suicide note, like she was done. She didn't want to be here anymore and that was really really difficult, um, and it took a lot of us working together to get to a place where where we were really close again, um, but it was hard and there were so many emotions behind it. And then she, she was just one of those people that, like nothing, ever, the chips never fall in her favor ever.
Speaker 2:And we found out not that long after that that she had cancer, adenoid cystic carcinoma, and it seemed, or actually in between those things, she also lost her mom and Hurricane Sandy hit. So like, literally, like all of these things. So where me, her and my stepdad are living in a one bedroom apartment because we lost our house during Hurricane Sandy, my sister is already off and, you know, married and has a kid at this point and she finds out that she has cancer and while we're living in this one bedroom apartment, she's going through radiation, she's getting surgery, and then that's it Like, oh, it's done, we're good. Every six months you get a check, you're good. So during that time period between then, which was 2012, till, gosh, 20, 2021, is when she she was in remission and she was doing great. Her health was great. She still was battling with addiction on and off um, in and out of treatment, um again, we definitely had struggles in our family because of that, but really, for the most part, she was good, like going to the gym, she like got really into like juicing and doing all of these things. Uh, she's always been incredibly spiritual, so she was like going to um, going to get Reiki and massage and all of the things that you should be doing right, like what they tell you will help um your healing process.
Speaker 2:And when, when the pandemic hit, I think that she really, really struggled again At this point. I was a mom of one and I became a doula myself in the beginning, in January of 2020. And when I had my daughter then in 2021, I really gave my mom which was the hardest thing for me because of how close we were in ultimatum of, you need to get sober if you want to create a deep relationship with my children which was so hard for me because I didn't want to do that because we were so close, but I needed to do that because she was hurting so many people around us. That, because she was hurting so many people around us Um, myself, my sister, my stepfather included and I had my daughter on a Saturday and by Tuesday, she admitted herself to rehab and find, found sobriety, found, re-found her face during the process and really cleaned everything up Again. The reason why I bring all of this up is because this plays such a role in my grief process, because that was June of 2021.
Speaker 2:And in November of 2021 was when we found out that her cancer was back and it was like a total blow to all of us Her mostly, of course, um, but to all of us and we found out that it was way more aggressive. Um, they tried to remove it. Um, it was too close to her carotid artery so they were really nervous. So then they sent us to get a second opinion, where we ended up at Memorial Sloan Kettering. And then her next surgeon was so confident he was like I'm going to get it all out, you're going to be fine. So this is already April of 2022, because obviously nothing happens quick in the medical world and she gets the surgery.
Speaker 2:She starts a really intensive form of proton radiation um, 30 rounds of that, five rounds of regular radiation and six rounds of chemo. She finishes about a week before Christmas, um, and we're like, oh my gosh, yes, like we're done, we're going into 2023 clean and healthy and all of these things. And I remember, um, I'm sorry I might get a little emotional, but I even remember, like sitting at Christmas dinner that year and just having that conversation, like making a toast of like, oh, this is behind us, and like we have so much to look forward to in 2023. Um, and then she so the proton radiation takes a certain amount of time before they can scan you again, cause like the effects continue. Um, and she in April, got scanned and we found that she was just riddled with cancer in her whole body, um, all along her spine. So, again, we'll just do a few rounds of radiation, we'll get it. Um, the radiation ended up actually fracturing her spine, so she ended up needing to get spine surgery, and from that moment on which was July of 2023, she was paralyzed from that surgery, and it really was the beginning of the end. The beginning of the end.
Speaker 2:Um, during this process, I was her, you know me. My stepdad also was here and present, but I was really the primary person that was speaking to all of her doctors and holding the space for her, because it was really hard for her to come to terms with, like she might never walk again. Um, when we eventually realized, like she's not coming home, um, and it was really, it was a lot, it was really really difficult. It was something that shifted in me so much, though, because I realized that I had, like two choices I can just be really really depressed about it, or I can use all of my knowledge and my skills that I use as a doula and and help her. And, um, when, when I had one of the hardest conversations of my life, when her doctor told me that you know there's nothing they can do, and the last option is really you is really comfort care, and I had to go to my mom and talk to her about that Again. I took that moment and that choice of now is my time to really help her and guide her.
Speaker 2:So my sister flew up from South Carolina and spent the last few weeks of my mom's life with us as well and my sister is very spiritual as well as I am and we really just took it upon ourselves to sit with her every day. One was, and we, we just started doing the work that we knew that I wouldn't I would call it energy work, I wouldn't put a specific um label on what we were doing Um, we also hired a death walker to sit with my mom, um, virtually, and and meet with her spirit, which was incredible, and we asked my mom's permission beforehand, of course, and she was open to it. But in those last days, especially when you see your parent declining, there's just this weird magic that's also happening at the same time. Um, she never stopped smiling, she never stopped squeezing my hand, so I knew how present she was with me, even though she was still in this space of floating between two worlds, um, and that last night, before we had left, me and my sister looked at each other and we knew, you know, that this was the night that she was going to pass and we were like, should we? Should we stay? And we knew she wouldn't be able to go if we, if we, stayed. So we just made a promise to her together that we would be okay and that we would take care of my stepdad, and kissed her, and she smiled because at this point she was way too, she couldn't speak or anything, and we said goodbye. And those moments are moments that I look back at with such deep gratitude.
Speaker 2:I had conversations with my mom that I don't think that anybody will ever have with their parent, both good and bad. But there is no stone left unturned. There is not one regret I have. There is not one thing that I wished, I said or held back. There's not one question I didn't ask. And it is a huge part of who I am, as a human, as a mother and as a doula, because that space that I was able to carry her through is the same space that I am holding when someone's bringing life into this world. You know, it's the same funnel and I feel like that is one thing that we connected so much on when we first spoke.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget our first conversation Usually I'm not on the phone with someone that long and we had already connected via Instagram. Um, even before you were pregnant, I remember, and, um, I was so excited when we had the opportunity to like, dive in. But I remember us talking about that and, like the second, you told me about your experience with, with your father. I just I felt such an immediate connection and felt like, oh my gosh, like it is such an. You know, you cannot argue that when you are in a birth space, the magic and the opening of the worlds, but it is that same exact feeling when you are in a space of death.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the way I describe it is like the way it looked like for me being with my dad. It was like there were a bunch of little kind of like twinkly lights everywhere and it's like the entire space becomes this liminal space, as if there was sort of like a, like a sheer veil over everything, that that sort of upholds the whole space, as if the air was viscous, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, I literally am like full goosebumps.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, and it's so interesting because I knew that I needed someone who would be in the space with me, who understood how to hold that and carry that through. And it's interesting because I had planned a home birth and so in many ways I sort of had anticipated that us, having had set up my healing space where I work with my grief clients on that just that the space itself would really kind of carry that and hold that through line. And ha ha ha little cosmic giggle, my friends, because of of the way that my birth went and you know, as soon as labor started I began to bleed and so it was immediate heading to the hospital. And I am so grateful that I had you with me during that time, because we were in such a foreign setting. I had never even been a patient in a hospital to begin with and, thank God, I had had the experience of being with my father in those medical settings. So something you said about you know, it seems like you got really good at learning how to speak to medical professionals and all of that, and and to also be able to navigate that space and hold, hold it all as well. Huge, because it also takes a huge amount of stamina, and so that's where I'm really bringing in this whole topic of resilience, because what I felt that you had cultivated by the time I even found you, which, yeah, I was like an Instagram fangirl, like long before. I had found you through the nesting place which, our dear listener, if you're on Strong Island, they host wonderful educational workshops, mom's groups, so much there and Alex actually started this wonderful support circle called the Fourth Trimester, which I got to be in, which was very, very cool.
Speaker 1:But I found you through them and since then I was just kind of like Ooh, I like her and I'm pretty sure she's going to be my doula, and so then then when we had that conversation and we were able to be like, yeah, birth is pretty much this like psychedelic, awesome portal moment, I knew it was you and I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just interview other people just to like cover all my bases, but I knew it was you all along, um, and it was amazing because then, when we were in that space where so much shifted, so and I just want to share from my experience, like with God, with any of these threshold moments, we sort of have it's, it's diving into the unknown. I was actually blasting into the unknown, sung by Idina Menzel last night on my walk home, cause I saw her on Broadway last night. It was so good. But it's really like diving into the unknown and we don't know what it's going to look like. But we have our preferences, um, or what we think it might look like.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because in my birth experience it was like, literally, it's as if somebody took my birth plan. God was like I went into it, being like I know that it's going to look very different than anything I could imagine, but it really looked well, it was very different. And it's like somebody took my birth plan and they were just like okay, we're not going to do that, we're not going to do that, nope, that part, nope, not going to do that one. Oh, but you're going to have all the things, all the things that I had wanted to cultivate this place where it was undisturbed and as natural as possible, and had researched like up to like the minute of how I wanted it to be, and so it was so wonderful to have you there, kind of walking me through it and holding this really strong torch of knowing that I could do it and making it sacred, even though it didn't look anything like what I had anticipated. You know, being at home in the birth pool surrounded by candles, and I feel like you and I and Patrick Patrick was there, like totally. It was like I'd reach my hands out and it'd be like you, patrick, like together, just a total, freaking team. I want to say we did it together, the three of us.
Speaker 1:Yes, there were medical professionals in the room, but it was like we did it together and I and I oh, I don't know, there's so much there to unpack, but it's like I envision us like sort of standing and holding this torch, of like holding down that sacred space together. That I don't know. You know it's interesting because, like the other people in the room which there were a lot of people in the room and they're like completely naked. You know it's so interesting because I how do I say it? Like it felt, because we were in this medical setting, that the people who it's just a normal Saturday, sunday for them, it's their shift, right, they're just like. You know, they were like having water cooler chat and they had to be like Alex.
Speaker 1:Can we remember? Can we help them remember? Like this is a sacred space, but I was so grateful that you were like on the assignment, you got it and that you were able to kind of just carry that as well throughout it all. I guess I'm sort of curious about your experience of that, because and I don't know, I don't know, but I'm assuming that maybe that this was a very unique birth experience and that I don't know. So I'm just curious how that was for you and how, like your resilience and that kind of like strong, fricking Redwood Oak tree combination came out in that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, wow, hearing you talk about it, um, your birth is something that will stick with me for the rest of my life. Um, you are so powerful. I know that this isn't what you're asking me to talk about right now.
Speaker 2:I'm here to receive anything and everything but your birth is still one that I talk about. Uh, quite often I was with um, you know, a midwife in the midwifery group that you used recently, and even us, we were like holy shit, like do you remember that? Like that was crazy, because it was. But the the most beautiful part of it to me was that and I know that I've said this to you privately before, but I will say it for the rest of my life is I have never, never, ever seen someone handed so many challenges and flow with it and still be rooted and grounded and like strong about opinions and choices and advocacy, but also so accepting about the change. And I remember when we spoke about it, you know, in just the days following and you were like, well, you know, well, what choice did I have? And I'm like, well, you did have a choice. Some people are just like whatever, I guess this is how it is, but you weren't like that. It was such a give and take of, well, this is something that's really important to me and we're not going to go there versus well, this is something that we need to shift for safety purposes, and like I can accept that. And um, but, but yeah, um, your, your, everything about your birth, I feel like was was such an incredible journey and I've I still feel so honored to have been there.
Speaker 2:It's funny because the last time that I was at South Nassau prior to your delivery, um was also a home birth transfer and it was actually the night of my mom's funeral. Um, I went to and that was once she was in the hospital. It actually smooth like flowed pretty well. It was crazy she's. She had like an insane long labor. I felt awful for her, I was just with her, with her second, and it was a beautiful experience. But it's it felt so full circle.
Speaker 2:That like that was when I was at South Nassau last, like right after my mom's funeral, which in its own way was a very healing experience for me, in addition to being so honored to be able to be present for someone right, this duality of life and death. And then my next time is you and like talk about like that duality, right, and I mean I feel like from the moment you and Patrick arrived you know I was waiting for you guys at the hospital um parked the car for you because I feel like you just made kind of light of it. But Elena was not just bleeding. Bleeding, yeah, um. And I even remember Patrick turning to me at one point and he's like, have you seen this before? Like is this normal? And I was like I'm not going to lie to you, no, and no.
Speaker 1:I literally stepped out of the car and I had put a pad on once the bleeding had begun and I was wearing this onesie and I step. I'm like driving to the hospital trying to eat my matzo ball soup.
Speaker 2:It's spilling everywhere.
Speaker 1:Disaster. I literally step, I step out of the car. You come and get me at the car. It was a gush of blood, like I'm soaking through my onesie, and so, yeah, it was quite an experience. And you were just like, yeah, here, and you hugged me and you were like, okay, here we are. You weren't like holy shit, you're bleeding, you're bleeding down your leg. Imagine that would be terrible. Oh no.
Speaker 2:But I do think I you know, even hearing you say it, I do think that that experience of being in so many medical spaces with my mom did bring such a collaborative is the right word. But that's what I'm leaning into right now. But a collaborative space of like. As a doula, we're taught to teach you how to advocate for yourself, right? That's like really what we're supposed to do. We're not supposed to be like stepping in and being um, fixing everything. We're supposed to be empowering you and educating you to do that yourself.
Speaker 2:Um, I might not be the doula for everyone. Um, nobody's the doula for everyone. One thing I can say is I am a fierce advocate. I can't keep my mouth shut. If I tried, it wouldn't work. It's just not who I am. Does it mean that everyone's going to listen?
Speaker 2:But I think that when it came to your birth and is some of it luck, maybe Do I think it's more divine intervention 100% that your care team was actually really, really receptive and it did feel really collaborative. And I remember, even after one of the nurse managers coming up to me and being like I usually hate doulas, um, but like you know, I really liked and she took my card and whatever, but um it, you. You are what held that power, though, because, again, there were things that you were like, absolutely not, we're not going there. And there are other things that, like we had to shift. But watching you move through those changes changed me, elena, like me, me seeing someone being so in tune with their body, body that being thrown so much information right, the possibility of C-section, the, the big possibility of C-section.
Speaker 1:They were literally preparing the OR. It was all night ready for me that at any moment, yeah, and like all of that and like even to something.
Speaker 2:So you know, simple, as like us making decisions on, like what your movement would look like, because movement had to change for you and movement is such a major part of who you are.
Speaker 2:But with your movement you are bleeding more and us having to even shift those things, which I know wasn't easy for you, but you were still rooted and grounded in that and I think that I mean, I feel honored that you, you feel like I was a part of that.
Speaker 2:But to me, like all I could say is, like, what I wanted to be and what I hope I gave a little to you, is that to be that hand that's holding yours and just helping you to make your own choice. I'm not there to make a choice for you. I'm there to help you, educate and and guide you and maybe tell a few people to shut up in the process, but I'm I'm not there to make a decision for you. And watching you continuously do that over the course of your labor empowered me, empowered me to be like oh my God, like you ended with a beautiful vaginal delivery which nobody anticipated. But I know that you didn't doubt yourself and I didn't doubt you and Patrick didn't doubt you, and the fact that we had that, we were able to quiet some of that noise and go internal, and that's where that sacred space really becomes beyond. And the twinkle lights don't hurt either, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you also created such a beautiful sacred space with the electric candles, like you were on it. You had all the essential oils you had, your birth bag was prepped and ready and it was amazing because I had had everything ready here and none of that came with us. I'm so glad I grabbed my Mindfold, designed by Alex Gray, a psychedelic artist For anyone listening, highly recommend. Fantastic for naps. Gray, a psychedelic artist for anyone listening, highly recommend. Fantastic for naps, fantastic for psychedelic exploration, and also, turns out, great for giving birth, because I literally was able to just have this Mindfold on and go through feeling these surges and bleeding every time. So I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:I probably should have, uh, made a note at the beginning of the episode. If you are with child right now, maybe not the best episode to be listening to, but also turns out you know. So I had a placental abruption. I don't think we've we've named it Um, and so basically, I was bleeding the whole time and so I was um. I had to sort of switch every single thing about my preference for birth around and I had to learn how to be present in my body in the moment and not be able to move Because, as you said, the more I moved, the more I would bleed. Every single contraction gushes of blood, and I'm not for our ladies listening. I'm not talking about when you're on your period and it's a little like, oh, that was a big one. It was like waves of blood, and something I shared when I spoke about my birth in my Instagram post was the one thing.
Speaker 1:So, gosh, we all have our fears and our preferences with birth. The one major fear that I had had that I had not articulated to anyone not you, not Patrick, not anyone was the fear of bleeding out during birth, because many years ago, I was receiving a healing, like a Reiki session, by the woman who gave me Reiki when I was living in Bali, devi Ma, and I had this memory of a past life emerge of looking down and bleeding out during birth and dying, and so that was actually my main fear, and so I knew, going into it, that I was like I don't want to see the blood at all. I knew I actually have a fear of blood, or not fear, but yeah, I'd say yeah, I haven't been good with blood Anytime someone's had a cut or anything. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't. Oh, I haven't been good with blood. Like anytime someone's had a cut or anything, I'm like, oh my God, I can't. I know it's terrible, like I can't see it, but I knew that, like I could not see the blood.
Speaker 1:And so I'm so glad that I sort of had created this cocoon by having the MindFold and we had this wonderful portal playlist, aside from the fact that I had put a ton of Ram Dass uh, uh tracks on there of like him, you know, speaking over kind of ambient music, and I was like shut up Ram Dass, like every time it would come on I'm like no more Ram Dass. But, um, so we were able to, yeah, I guess, create this like little trio. I want to say it's like is it a triad? I'm not sure, but of us like holding it down so that I'd be there with my little mind fold on bleeding out and having to stay like basically completely still for the most part, um, and then having them come to me with these like life or death decisions every couple of minutes, it seemed, and me just having to be like breathe through the contractions and the blood and be like, okay, all right, so tell me again, what is it that you're asking me? Okay, and just kind of like going through this sort of checklist in my mind of having done a butt ton of research about birth in the past to know what the potential repercussions are of certain choices and wanting to be really I don't want to say I want to say like frugal, not frugal, but not wanting to just rush into making these choices haphazardly I suppose but then ending up to have to make those choices, to get the epidural because they had to prepare me for the C-section and what that meant, and and even choosing to, like you know, to, to have the epidural medication and um, and then ending up having to get Pitocin, which I was always adamantly against.
Speaker 1:I basically got all the things that I never wanted and in the end it's what helped me have a vaginal birth which, by the way dear listener, not to toot my own horn and Alex's horn because you're in this journey, you're in the boat Turns out with a placental abruption. It is unheard of to have a vaginal delivery. I mean, okay. So if that's not cool, I don't know what it is, because I even spoke to my midwife friend recently who works in Ohio, and she was like yeah, if you were to come to my hospital and present with exactly and thank God I was stable, everything was stable, baby was mostly stable, pretty stable. Nobody told me that her heart rate was dropping during the contractions at the end, thank God, cause then you know. But I trusted her.
Speaker 1:But basically she was like if you had come to my hospital they would have gone immediate, immediate, uh C-section, Whereas for me they were like which was kind of also really crazy they were like so you can only hit this level of blood loss before we're going to send you into immediate C-section. So throughout the night they were measuring all of my blood, soaked chucks that were underneath me, and so it was like every few minutes I would press my feet into the hospital bed, lift up my hips and they would switch out all of the chucks and then they put it on this little scale, um to to weigh it, and turns out like by the time I actually delivered I had surpassed the, the level that was sort of allowed, which I believe was over two liters, which I keep on like kind of looking at my measuring cups and being like that's a lot of blood. You know, it was a lot of blood and I always sort of had this fear obviously of bleeding out, but also of being like I can't lose blood, like I'm anemic. I and thank God I'd gone for my iron infusions leading up to the birth, um, but turns out I can lose a lot of blood and still be like mostly with it. Um, up until the end when everybody came to the room and I had lost so much blood.
Speaker 1:And this was, I think, when we had started pushing. I'm not sure, but they were like, or before I started pushing, I think they were like you're not looking too good. I was like I'm not feeling too good, guys, I can only imagine. There was like no color in my face. And that's when they gave me two units of blood, which after that, I say I was like Popeye. I was like let's go.
Speaker 1:And then when I believe all the doctors were out of the room before I don't you might have to tell me the timeline of this but like they weren't letting me drink any water or have ice chips, but you were like sneaking ice chips and sneaking little, because you're not supposed to have anything if you're going for a C-section. But I like knew that that wasn't going to happen and so you're sneaking me a little ice chips and sneaking me a little water. She got in trouble, by the way, for going out in the hall and trying to get water. Where are you going? But then I think, like right before the baby came, somehow everybody had left the room and you grabbed a juice box and you were like here, drink this, and I sucked it down in like one second and then I was able to push the baby. Am I right in that kind of right in that timing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually incredible how you can recall so much I I'm impressed, but yes, I I did get in trouble for getting you ice chips and I, I know that we had. We were definitely giving you some like honey sticks in between to give you some sort of sugar, um, but yeah, there was definitely a shift in time where, where you did not look as as hot up until that time and and luckily again, like even in the setting, um, like your midwife was also really supportive and she was like she can have one tiny sip, and we were like okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Turn around? Yeah, no, for sure, because and also shout out to Gaia Midwives, rachel fricking brought it home and she really advocated for me having a vaginal birth. Her and the other, the doctor on call, not on call, but right, is that what you? How you would say it? Beth Bentley, the two of them down there they did it and you know she it was. It was cool.
Speaker 2:They really like it all happened, wow it was, and I think that it's so important to just acknowledge if anybody is listening that is going through this process is that it is also why it's so important to be educated. First of all you know, I think, so many people. There is something beautiful about leading with intuition, but it has to be a balance of intuition and education, Because even do you feel comfortable with going over when Tallulah actually arrived?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's talk about it yeah when Tallulah actually arrived.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about it. Yeah, so during the birthing and labor process, every nurse did ask Elena her preferences on when baby got here.
Speaker 2:And one thing that she was absolutely adamant about was that she gets to bring baby too and gets the opportunity, if anything is going on, to to make sure that she's vigorous, as we would say. And Tallulah had gone through a lot during that labor. Um, the decels were still in a range of normal, that I will tell you. During those contractions. It really depends if heart rate is coming back up. That's normal, right, because that, like pressure and everything, could really change things. We are making sure that there's a variability and that heart rate is coming back up, which it was, thank goodness.
Speaker 2:But baby was put immediately onto Elena's chest and I mean there was a team in that, there was a NICU team in that room because of everything else leading up to the actual delivery and they, even in that moment, they gave. They gave Elena. I'm not going to say they gave you, because that's not fair to you. You had the power to hold onto her and keep her and do your best before they unfortunately did need to take her because she needed some more deep suctioning because of swallowing extra fluid, breathing in extra fluid myself.
Speaker 1:But then when they placed her on my chest, the cord was too short and so I couldn't reach her nose and she had. She had swallowed so much blood. She was just covered and listen, I had wanted to do a Lotus birth. I'd wanted to, you know, keep her connected to the placenta, but it was like yep, we're kind of like it was an immediate. Once she tried to take a breath and she was just gargling blood. Um they're, they just snipped her and, like swifted her away to the little NICU table. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even in that, like the whole time, I mean, I believe it or not, I don't cry at every birth, I do cry, I am a crier, um, but I just remember standing there and watching you in all the entire time you continued to speak to her, the whole time she wasn't with you, everything was innate. Nobody had to say to you do this, do that you just it was so natural to you, patrick, go stand with her because he was focused on you, of course.
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm gonna talk to her doing all of that. And you just moved with such grace and talk about resilience, like right, that's like the theme of going into this. What you endured during under 24 hours, like mind blowing mind blowing really wild. You'll have the strength at the end there to know and use your intuition to continue to guide you and continue that, that immediate connection, even though she wasn't able to be on your chest for as long as planned.
Speaker 1:I think that's the thing that I really I'm hoping is the takeaway from this conversation for people is that in life, in birth, in death, in life in general, you always have a choice. Even if your hands are like tied behind your back and you can't move and you can barely breathe, like you still have a choice on how you meet the moment. And so in that moment that looked very different than what I had planned and hoped. I knew it was a sacred moment. That was her first few moments here on earth, and so I wanted to do my best for her to know that it was a beautiful world that she had entered. And so Patrick was going in between me and her and he's crying and I'm just saying to him you know, look her in the eyes, look her in the eyes, because there were people who were flipping her over and suctioning her out and all sorts of things. And meanwhile there was this I want to call it like a slip and slide this right between my legs and they were catching all of the blood that was coming out and filling up this huge bag that looked like a water bottle, like not a water, like a hot water bottle filled with blood, like see-through, and that's what I remember. Listen, I don't know if it's accurate, but I'm pretty sure that was what was happening and they were like okay, elena, you have a second degree tear, so we're going to stitch you up. And I was like, okay, no problem. I was like, go for it. I'm there, like legs totally open, butt ass naked, covered in blood, and all the while like talking to her, you know, like kind of like in a little sing songy voice, and Patrick's going in between us, and I was just like, yeah, well, hi, little girl like Tallulah. And I remember like even the moment before she came through.
Speaker 1:It was in this sort of moment where, like there was this sort of sense of doubt that I was having in my mind, I think, and somebody asked me and I hadn't told anybody, but somebody had asked me what her name was and I said it's Tallulah Rain. And then it was like, and everything shifted and then she emerged and like that moment of actually pushing her out and putting my hands down and feeling her skull, and that part I loved would do it a million times over. It's funny to me because people say to me like, oh, especially afterwards, they're like you had a traumatic birth and yes, there's aspects of trauma. I'm just beginning to unpack it all and that's going to be a journey for me but overall, birth is awesome and so, if you are listening to this and you are pregnant or know somebody who is pregnant, like the birth is awesome and it felt amazing and I loved feeling her head and then knowing and like tuning into my yoni and feeling her expand and feeling like I knew, okay, she's coming now and then she was there and it's would do it a million times over, like if that was how the birth had to go again and again intense, but I'll take it, you know, and yeah, I think that's that's what I really want to impart onto people is, in these moments where you might feel sort of you could go into victimhood, you could go into well, it's out of my hands now which can be in guiding someone in death, where you might be in a medical setting and there's a lot of unknowns and things that you have no control of.
Speaker 1:You still have control over your own sense of strength and having the ability to navigate difficult conversations and difficult decisions with that sense of resilience, of that sense of like. Okay, it's different than I expected and I always say, kind of like a duck shaking water off of its back, it's like I can just kind of let that roll off. I can let that roll off. And in that moment and in that experience I had to be like water and roll with it and just kind of be in this nebulous liminal space of we're just literally going with the flow here and thank God, thank God she came through and thank God it was what it was and I'm just so grateful that I had you there with me and that you have that. You got that. You know what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean again, so honored to be able to be there and be present. But I love the way that you said that that you do always have a choice, and something I say all the time when it comes to birth, but also just motherhood in general, it really is like that ultimate test of surrender, but surrender does not mean giving up bodily autonomy. Yes, surrender does not mean giving up bodily autonomy. Yes, and that's where it becomes like an interesting balance that you really have to lean into. And again, even in hearing your experience and like how, even through the trauma of it, which I remember, even when I used the word trauma after your birth, you were like, oh, it, it was traumatic. And I was like, well, I don't want to like tell you that it was traumatic, like I don't want to use that language and put it into your own head, but, um, it doesn't mean that it wasn't beautiful.
Speaker 2:And again, it is that that same walking between two worlds and that moment of going inward and that same surrender that someone who is walking the death experience also has to go through, because of course, there are plenty of times that people pass when they might not be ready. But I know in my experience with my mother so much of the work that we did together um my sister, myself and her was about her having acceptance and surrender. Um, cause it took a long time for her to accept that she wasn't going home, which um easy for anybody else to say how you can feel in that moment. But it was really once, once she did make that connection, that she was able to walk that that power of it's time and she can come here now and it's I. You know, I've, I always have made such a connection with the death experience and the birth experience to something very psychedelic and in that same, like your job is really just to be in it.
Speaker 2:Right, my job is to advocate, hold space, be there so that you can be in it, and that is power that you held that whole time. And I think, like even you talking about, like the blindfold, and I remember even at certain points, like you pulling your beanie over your eyes and like just allowing yourself to go inward, that is so difficult, it is so difficult. Like I'm not going to sit here and say like that's easy, because it's not. It is so hard. The mental piece of birth is the hardest part, but you, you did it and you stood in your power, and I am so proud to know you and to have witnessed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What's coming to mind is in, in reflecting on what you just shared, is yes, surrender is so important, it's crucial, and it doesn't mean in life and death and just walking through life.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean you just kind of like I want to say like fall over and flop over and go, I surrender.
Speaker 1:And having this sort of I want to say single focus of I'm going to say it of God, of trust, of knowing that, no matter what it's all going towards, sort of this one sense of source, of oneness, of wholeness. And so in that moment, when I felt and I knew that most likely I would leave there with a baby, there was also that very real sense of this and this could also mean the end of me, and I knew that, no matter what my feeling was, most likely the baby would survive that's just what I was feeling in that moment and that she would have a really beautiful life and that she would have her father and this huge family that would love her. And I knew for myself it was really this strong sense of single focus, like blasting through the third eye, kind of just like and if that means that I'm ascending and going to the other side, whatever you want to call it, I can accept that and I can walk that road and be okay with it and be at peace with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Huge. I think that's. It's a good lesson on how we can greet life and and meet life. And meet death is is that yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:I love it beautiful.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy that you came on today to just share and have this conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy that you asked me to be here. Honored I keep saying honored, but I I mean it deeply, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm just kind of like anyone who's had a baby and had a doula like start a podcast and get your doula to come on Cause. Like we need more birth stories, we need more death stories. We we need it, and I think it's so important to my focus is let's have stories where we can meet really challenging moments and find strength and not go oh, I had a traumatic birth and it was terrible. Oh, and he died and it was terrible. No, this is what we came here to do, this is what we signed up for, so like, let's meet it and be badass about it. That's just my feeling.
Speaker 2:No, I'm, I'm with you. I think I me and my sister kind of joke about it all the time because of course it's easier to get into that place of what was me right so much easier. But we would not be in these weird meat flesh suits, our spirit would not be human if we weren't meant to experience these things. And that doesn't mean that we might need extra help with processing or dealing with those things. There is no such thing as too much support. You are not alone in birth, in grief, in all of those things. But it could be a really powerful tool if you allow it to be and if you can see that duality I think when I learned about true duality when I first had my son that has really been such a guiding force in my humanity and when you can accept that that's where that power truly resides.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, beautifully said. You're amazing. Please tell our listener how can people find you, how can they work with you? Do you have any interesting offerings coming up that you'd like people to know?
Speaker 2:about. You can always find me at the nesting place on Long Island. I do fourth trimester support circles there. My next one is in October. You can find me on Instagram. My handle is at moon and sun doula. Um, I'm not the best at posting all the time. Trying to get better about that.
Speaker 1:I think you're on fire lately. I'm like, oh yeah, that's my doula, that's my doula.
Speaker 2:I'm trying, I'm trying. It's not my strong suit, but, um and yeah, you can DM me there or it's connected to my website Um, right here in town I am starting a new, smaller group in an incredible space my daughter's school yoga, with Miss Erin. Um, we will be having a build the village kind of not just workshop, workshop meets, support. Um, really, it's not about how to build your village, it is the village. It is building the village. The first one of those will be May 14th, which I'm really excited about. She's really special to me and always I mean, keep checking the nesting place. I always have things pop up there. I'm so grateful for that space and what they have done for mothers on Long Island. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can check out all the links. I'll have them listed in the show notes and I just highly recommend anyone who's listening to check you out and give you a follow and just send you some love, because everything you do is awesome and I'm just so blessed to know you.
Speaker 2:Vice versa. I love you so much.
Speaker 1:All right, my dear listener, thank you so much for tuning in. This has been another episode of the Ode to Joy podcast.