In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, find out what’s happening with wildlife habitat in the Southeastern Lower Peninsula, learn about why natural resource agencies remove wildlife from people keeping them as pets or rehabilitating them without a license, and hear listener questions answered in the mailbag segment. The episode wraps up with a discussion about how to handle nuisance geese.
Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD). You can also email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov, and even send your question as a sound file that you record on your phone to be played on the air!
Episode Hosts: Hannah Schauer and Rachel Leightner
Producer: Eric Hilliard
Around the State Guest: Terry McFadden
Main Interview Guest(s): Dr. Dan O'Brien, Dr. Kimberly Signs and Dr. Jim Sikarskie
Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.
In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, find out what’s happening with wildlife habitat in the Southeastern Lower Peninsula, learn about why natural resource agencies remove wildlife from people keeping them as pets or rehabilitating them without a license, and hear listener questions answered in the mailbag segment. The episode wraps up with a discussion about how to handle nuisance geese.
Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD). You can also email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov, and even send your question as a sound file that you record on your phone to be played on the air!
Episode Hosts: Hannah Schauer and Rachel Leightner
Producer: Eric Hilliard
Around the State Guest: Terry McFadden
Main Interview Guest(s): Dr. Dan O'Brien, Dr. Kimberly Signs and Dr. Jim Sikarskie
Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.
Announcer:
You know what that sound means? It's time for the Michigan DNR's Wildtalk Podcast. Welcome to the Wildtalk Podcast where representatives from the DNR's Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews, and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.
Rachel:
Welcome to Wild Talk. I'm your host, Rachel Leightner. And here with me today is the wonderful Hannah Schauer.
Hannah:
Now, in this month's episode, we are resharing the popular panel discussion on captive wildlife that we did last year with our guests, Doctors Dan O'Brien, Kimberly Signs, and Jim Sikarskie. Later in the show, we'll be answering some of your questions from the mail bag, and we will also be revealing the winners of our Wildtalk Podcast mugs sometime during this episode. And you can find out how you can win one too.
Rachel:
We've also got Terry McFadden back on the show to talk about what's going on in the Southeast region. So you will want to stick around for that. But right now, we're going to shine our wildlife spotlight on the mallard.
Hannah:
Chances are you've likely seen some mallards hanging out in a body of water near you, or maybe you even have one nesting in your garden bed right now. These common dabbling ducks can be found just about anywhere in Michigan and some often stay in the state year round.
Rachel:
Yeah, they're kind of the iconic duck. When you think of a duck, it's probably the images that conjures in your head. They're very familiar, and they're regular visitors at park ponds. The males have green heads, bright yellow bills, gray bodies, and black curly tail feathers. Which make them relatively easy to identify, while the females are more drab in appearance with some brown mottling and orange-and-brown-colored bills.
Hannah:
Now, after the breeding season, however, the ducks will shed their flight feathers and will be flightless for about three to four weeks.
Rachel:
They also molt their body feathers into what is called an eclipse or non-breeding plumage to help them stay more camouflaged during this vulnerable time period. And this makes them a little more challenging to identify.
Hannah:
And as we mentioned, mallards can be found just about anywhere there is water. So look for them in and around ponds, wetlands, lakes, city parks, backyards, and so on.
Rachel:
Mallards are also feed on a wide variety of foods, including seeds, aquatic vegetation or aquatic, insect larva, worms, snails, grains, you name it. Mallard pairs typically form in the fall before the spring breeding season and only the female will incubate the eggs and care for those ducklings.
Hannah:
And mallards like to nest on the ground relatively close to a water source, but don't be surprised if they nest in a spot that is seemingly far from water. Nests are usually concealed by some sort of vegetation. Now, the female will not sit on her eggs and start to incubate them until she's laid all of the eggs. So if you do happen to see a nesting mallard but don't see her sitting on the eggs and incubating them yet, this could be why. She might have a few more to lay.
Rachel:
A mallard will lay anywhere between one to 13 eggs and could have two broods in a season. Now, once the females start to incubate the eggs, she'll sit on that nest for about a month before the eggs hatch. And then once the young have hatched, they'll stay at the nest for less than 24 hours before the mother duck leads them to a water body.
Hannah:
All right. And a fun little duck fact to end on for you all. The typical duck quack that you probably think of is actually the sound the females make. A male's noise is far more of a horse rasping sound, not the quack that you think of, the classic quack, I guess. So just keep that in mind if you're hearing a loud quacking. It's the ladies.
Rachel:
Huh, interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard that raspy horse sound come from a male. Lots of interesting mallard information. We can expect lots of people to be seeing them this time of year. Next step we'll find out what's happening in the Southeast region, so stick around.
Announcer:
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Rachel:
Welcome back to Wildtalk. Terry McFadden is back on the show today with us to chat about the happenings in the Southeast region. Thanks so much for joining us today, Terry.
Terry:
Thank you very much for having me on. I'm happy to contribute.
Rachel:
All right. So to kick us off, what would you say is the biggest accomplishment that the Southeast region has tackled this quarter?
Terry:
We just acquired a new state game area, Northern Monroe County, and it's right by a big population area. And so we're excited to actually see this go through. It was years in the making.
Hannah:
Fantastic. What sort of habitat types might folks find there?
Terry:
It used to be a gravel and sandpit. So it was a quarry at one time. There's about seven different ponds, but the largest one's about 85 acres. There's some really good oak resources on the property at this point in time. It's got a lot of potential for some restoration work. So we're looking at it more like a blank slate or something that we can work with to restore and enhance habitats and make it more valuable as we go forward. But right now, there are a lot of invasive species that need to be controlled, but there's a lot of potential to do some really good work out there with our staff.
Rachel:
And what are some of the ways people can enjoy the new Crystal Water State Game Area?
Terry:
Well, currently there're 6.5 miles of hiking trails. Like I said, seven different ponds or wetlands and lakes on the site. There's only one parking area, access site at the moment, but we're going to increase that to seven parking areas. So people throughout time we'll have more access to the site. So people can hike it. They can hunt it. And then as we increase habitat and improve habitat out there, the wildlife viewing aspect will increase along with that.
Hannah:
What would you say is the biggest project that you have that's looming on the horizon for your folks?
Terry:
Well, right now is to increase the access. So parking lots. We want to make a boat launch site for the larger lake. It's 85 acres. And we'd like people to be able to get into it with non-gasoline engines or paddle crafts, like canoes, kayaks, and things of that nature. We don't want gasoline engines contaminating the waters at this point. And restore the hiking trails or improve the hiking trails so that people can enjoy just going out there for walks and stuff during the summertime. So those are the main projects we got going. It's going to be a work in progress.
Rachel:
So we mentioned a lot of habitat projects and work that needs to be done. And of course, that only gets completed with really dedicated, hard-working staff contributions. So have you seen any impressive contributions this quarter from your Southeast staff?
Terry:
Yeah. In addition, with partners because without partners these days, a lot of things don't get done. And we just had a kickoff meeting down there just a couple weeks ago. We had 50 people in attendance and representing a dozen different groups. And it just shows you the interest. And specifically, MUCC was real instrumental in the purchase of this along with natural resources trust fund dollars, which paid for it. So collectively, working with those two partners, the DNR was able to acquire this property, which these don't come around all that often. You got to have willing landowners that are very patient to work with us. And they'd like to see their properties go to benefit wildlife and the people state of Michigan. But it takes years for something like this to come about.
Hannah:
Well, thanks so much, Terry, for sharing a little bit about the Crystal Waters project. And it's pretty exciting.
Terry:
Yep. Happy to be on. Thanks for having me. And it's nice to highlight some of the really cool projects that we do these days.
Announcer:
Did you know that Michigan lies where the Atlantic and Mississippi migratory flyways intersect? This brings over 340 species of birds to Michigan each year. Follow MI Birds on Facebook to learn more about our feathered friends, year-round guided bird walk, stewardship events, and community science opportunities near you. MI Birds is an education and outreach program created by Audubon Great Lakes and the Michigan DNR. Search MI Birds on Facebook. That's MI Birds.
Hannah:
Welcome back to WildTalk. Today, we are going to dive into some of the reasons why natural resource agencies remove captive wildlife from the homes of people holding them as pets or rehab animals without proper licenses and training. We are excited to have some great folks here to lend their perspectives on this important and sometimes controversial topic.
Hannah:
Joining us today are Dr. Dan O'Brien, wildlife veterinarian with the DNR, Dr. Kimberly Signs, epidemiologist and veterinarian for the Michigan Department Health and Human Services. And Dr. Jim Sikarskie, retired zoo and wildlife veterinary professor with the MSU College of Veterinary Medicine. We appreciate you all taking the time to discuss this topic with our listeners today. So thanks for being here.
Rachel:
Yeah. Thanks for joining us. We're really looking forward to this discussion today.
Rachel:
Now, occasionally it's brought to our attention that unfortunately wildlife have been held in captivity by someone who is not licensed to do so. And we then have to go in and remove animal or animals from the unlicensed person's custody. Now, many times people, when they know this kind of encounter is happening, they'll take to social media or they'll send us their opinions on the matter. And just to give our listeners a sample of the types of comments we receive, I'll read what a typical message is. "You claim to care about animals, yet you punish people for helping them. How about offering to help?" Another typical comment we can receive is, "I'm writing to you with the outmost disbelief and disgust at the actions you took. These animals were loved and were lovingly taken care of and your actions were just soulless."
Rachel:
So as you can hear, these comments we receive are often not supportive of our actions. And people often are saying that there's no good reasons for us to remove wildlife from a person's possessions and that there has to be some other action that we could take or should have taken.
Rachel:
So my question to the panel is this sort of situation can obviously evoke a lot of emotion, a lot of strong emotion, especially in people. And is it true that there are no good reasons for the DNR to remove wild animals from an unlicensed person?
Jim:
There are lots of good reasons for it. So no, it is not true that there's no good reason. I think one of the main reasons is the humane welfare of that animal. People can lovingly take care of them, but they don't know how to train them to be a deer or to be a raccoon, to mention a couple of the common ones that end up in captivity because they're so darn cute as babies. And raising them without a mother and especially one animal alone, imprints them. That's an important. That means that they grow up thinking they're people. And then they don't fit into the wild population when they're let go, if they make it that far. That's one of the most important reasons I think is the welfare, feeding them the right things and training them how to find their own food and what things that they need to eat in the wild are really crucially important.
Jim:
And the DNR isn't regulating this just because they feel like they want to be mean and take these cute little animals away from these well-intentioned people. It's their responsibility. There are diseases and parasites that people can get from those animals that can seriously compromise their health or kill them. And certainly the animals themselves often suffer by these well-intentioned people.
Dan:
Yeah. I agree, Jim. I mean, I think sometimes people who don't work with wildlife all the time lose sight of the fact that what makes wildlife so cool is that they're wild.
Jim:
Exactly.
Dan:
You know, they're not domestic animals. They're not pets. What we value about them is their wildness. And when people take wild animals into captivity and domesticate them, they're depriving those animals of the most valuable thing that they have, which is their wildness.
Jim:
That's their essence. I totally agree. That's so important. The way to really appreciate nature and the essence of those animals is to watch them in the wild, to study them and learn about them. And certainly there's way to do rehabilitation right. But that's getting licensed and doing the required training.
Jim:
And then many times, if the animal is compromised and ends up in human hands, there's quite often something wrong with it. And it might be that it's a disease that the population is going to be threatened by. Or Kim, Dr. Signs, is going to talk to us about some of the diseases that wildlife harbor as a reservoir that can spill over into human populations. And when you take that animal into your home, boy, you're inviting big problems.
Jim:
And one scary one is rabies. I mean, there's only been a couple of people survived that disease. And it's still tremendously important, nationally and internationally. And the reason the DNR says you cannot, even the licensed rehabilitators, care for skunks and bats is those two species can actually be rabid and show no clinical signs of illness. So if the animal is sick and somebody rescues it and keeps it alive and eventually returns it to the wild maybe, they returned it carrier that put the rest of the population at risk, if it was a disease that the wild population is acceptable to.
Kim:
Yeah. And I think Jim has really provided a really, really nice overview of all the many reasons that there are for removing wildlife from someone who may be possessing them. And from the public health side of things, as he's already mentioned, anytime a person seeks to have contact with wildlife, there's the chance that they could be injured or exposed to a disease that could worst-case scenario kill them or other people that they allow to have contact with this animal while they have it in their possession. So these are activities that certainly concern us from a standpoint of the health of people.
Dan:
And then one other thing just to mention briefly is something I don't think people think about is that what we're here to do as an agency, the DNR, is to manage natural resources that belong to everybody, that belong to all the people. That's our mission. And no one person has the right to take a public resource, a publicly owned wild animal and make it their own possession. It's just fundamentally goes against the way we manage natural resources in North America.
Jim:
Hunting is a good example. You just can't go out and hunt and shoot anything. You got to follow the rules, the seasons, the bag limits, the quotas. You got to buy a license. You got to play by the rules. And wildlife rehabilitation is regulated in a similar fashion by the agencies in charge.
Jim:
There's so many things that we could spend hours talking about, diseases and parasites and the welfare of the animals, whether it's behavioral or physical, the risk to the people and the animals and the population. But, it is important that somebody that knows what they're doing as far as the diseases and the parasites and the risks and the benefits helps regulate these activities.
Hannah:
People are usually well-meaning and just trying to help. But what are some of the downsides of it from the animal welfare perspective? Why isn't taking an animal and trying to take care of it always a good thing for that animal?
Jim:
Well, I can think of a really good example of many years ago. And it was a licensed rehabilitator even that brought in a juvenile red-tail hawk that had fallen out of the nest and there was no way to put it back because of the nest. And also, that licensed well-intentioned person took it home. And they're meat eaters right? And a cheap ready supply of meat is liver. She fed that baby hawk liver for four days and his bones turned to rubber because there's no calcium in liver. And it's very high in phosphorus. And that animal couldn't stand up, couldn't move its wings. Eventually, its ribs collapsed. I tried taking care of it and treated it with calcium gluconate IV and trying to pull it back, but it was too late. And it only took four days on that inappropriate diet. And it was almost intuitive that this is meat, they eat liver in the wild, but they eat the bones and they eat the muscle and they eat the stomach contents. They get all those things.
Jim:
So it's challenging. I used to get 700 rats a week. That's how many birds of prey we were taking care of. And you feed the whole animal to the patients. And it's really not just important to know, but sometimes it's very hard to get what you need.
Hannah:
So it's much different than say taking care of a dog or a cat or a domestic animal. It sounds like it's a lot more complex.
Jim:
Sure. Well, you could feed a baby raccoon just like you could a puppy, but then when you go to let it go in the wild where's it going to find puppy chow? So nutritionally, you might meet its needs with a commercially available diet. And certainly when the baby, if we're talking mammals, milk, the different formulas for milk, for all the different animals, whether it's a rodent or a carnivore or a herbivore, like a hooked animal, like a deer, they're all completely different. You just can't take a bottle of milk out of the refrigerator and feed it to them without causing diarrhea and other issues. And then certainly you might be able to get the right formula, but then when it comes time to wean them onto what they need to find in the wild, if you don't know what the mother's going to feed the baby or what the baby's going to find in the wild, it's really hard to do it correctly.
Dan:
And they're a behavioral issues too. You know, wild animals are not used to being around people. There is a natural tendency to avoid people. And that's an adaptation that is to the advantage of that population of wild animals. They're not used to being treated as pets. Any animal can adapt to anything to some extent, but they're not, wild animals are never going to behave normally. They're never going to manifest their normal behavior in a situation where they're always around people and they're being treated like domestic animals.
Dan:
And Jim has had these sorts of calls and I've had calls while I've worked for the DNR where there are what we call habituated animals, where there were animals that were either raised in the wild, because they lost their mothers they were raised by people, or they were taken by an individual and kept in captivity, and they become habituated to humans. And they behave in a way that...
Jim:
Is abnormal. Yeah.
Dan:
It's abnormal. Exactly. To use the deer example, which Jim has seen a bunch of these, it's all people love little fawns and they love having them around and they love to feed them out of their hand, but then when those fawns grow up and they start to manifest their normal reproductive behavior...
Jim:
Oh, especially if it's a buck. Yeah.
Dan:
Yeah, become aggressive to people.
Jim:
[crosstalk 00:21:58] people or they think you're a deer during the rut, that's dangerous either way. Yep.
Dan:
Right. And they've got antlers and then all of a sudden, the people are like, you got to get rid of this animal. Well, there's no saving that animal at that point. That animal can never go back into the wild. And people don't want to deal with it. People, even if they were well-intentioned, have destroyed the normal life of that animal. It's never going to be able to survive in the way it was intended.
Jim:
But those bucks kill people because they are not afraid of people. And another dimension is they think that people are an adversary during the breeding season, they're territorial and aggressive. You don't dare turn your back on them and you don't dare look at them to challenge them. I mean, you just don't do it because they're going to kill you. And that happens every year, somebody gets killed by a "tame deer".
Kim:
And I'll just jump in on this issue of well-intentioned people having these outcomes that are not at all what they had in mind. And when we're talking about species like bats or skunks, or raccoons either bats or carnivore species in particular, one of the things that we have to be concerned about is rabies. And because it is the most fatal virus that we know of and people can survive being exposed to rabies, we have treatments, but people have to recognize that they've been exposed. And so, one of the situations that is so difficult for all of us to deal with, and nobody in public health likes these types of situations when they come up. But people who, well intentioned, take in a baby raccoon or a couple of orphan baby raccoons and decide they're going to raise them. They may have the neighbors come over and help take care of these babies.
Kim:
They may unfortunately get bit by the animal trying to take care of it one way or the other, it comes to a doctor's attention or to, folks in public health attention that somebody, person has been bitten for example by one of these baby raccoons or has handled it. And so then we're put in this position of trying to decide, could this animal have rabies, could this animal be exposing people who've had contact with it to a disease like rabies? And so what ends up happening is that unfortunately we don't have an easy way to test an animal for rabies other than euthanizing it humanely and testing its brain. And so we have to kill it. And so we have to take that baby animal and have it euthanized, and test it and determine whether or not it was rabid and whether people might need to receive treatment to prevent rabies. So, that's just another example of something that's very well intentioned, you're going to help this animal actually ends up causing its death. So, and maybe if you'd left it in the wild, it would've survived.
Jim:
And I've had people say, well, why can't you just vaccinate it like a vaccinated, a dog or a cat? Well, the vaccines that are developed or dogs and cats are not proven to be effective if it's not an animal that the vaccine was specifically made for.
Kim:
The other point with this, because these animals often appear fine and healthy. So we can't because species like a bat or skunk or a raccoon, they are the natural reservoir for rabies virus. So that's the species in which this virus naturally circulates in the wild amongst other bats or other skunks, et cetera. And we do know a lot about how rabies behaves in mammals for, and it is fatal to most mammals. But when you're talking about a reservoir species, the species that harbors the virus in nature, we don't know how long that animal might seem normal and healthy, but still be able to spread the virus to another raccoon or to a person. So just observing the animal and their health, whether they're acting fine, eating, et cetera, may be sufficient to tell us that this animal does, or doesn't have rabies.
Kim:
The only way to know is to look for the virus in their brain in nature viruses have to propagate themselves. And so they don't want to be so deadly that they kill everything immediately. The strains of virus evolve to [crosstalk 00:26:49] get themselves passed from one animal to the next. And so that's our concern with rabies is that the animal could look perfectly healthy and be acting normal and eating, but still be shutting the virus. And so we can it tell by looking at the animal, we have to test it.
Rachel:
Thank you. Thanks everybody for addressing the treatment that wild animals have to go through. I feel like there's this huge misconception that all animals can receive the same type of treatment. And that's just not the case. If you take in a skunk, it's not going to receive the same treatment that your cat is going to receive if it appears ill. And it's great that you address that. So we've been talking a lot about animal welfare. We've talked a bit about the individual welfare of a person and potentially their families when they take in these captive animals. What about the bigger picture taking a wild animal into your possession without a license? Does it pose risks to a greater human population? And I think we were heading this way before this question. So tell us, is there bigger problems at hand?
Jim:
Well, I think that COVID is a real good example of that they think it might have originated from bats. Bats are a common species that carry viruses that are dangerous to lot of other species. And certainly the responsibility of the health departments and the agencies and that to regulate and try to prevent that is obvious. And, and the people that don't want to listen, they oftentimes are so secure in that they think they're doing the right thing. Or even though they know they're doing the wrong thing, they're not going to tell anybody. And so if they get bitten, they're not going to report themselves. But technically when one of those animals bite somebody, you're supposed to report it to your community health department. And then they, like Kim said, they're going to have to test it. But if you don't tell anybody, you might just get sick and put your family at risk and put people at risk in your church or your school.
Jim:
If your kids take that bat to school. I mean, Kim could tell us horror stories about what people have done and how, how they have to do a trace back and find out that cute little animal potentially exposed 50 people to a lethal fatal disease. And there's parasites that you can't tell or see printer. Every raccoon in the wild carries a roundworm parasite that is very serious. And the eggs in the feces will last for a year. And if they're accidentally ingested in humans, they can cause blindness or death because they migrate through the brain. That's really scary stuff. And that's the cutest little raccoon that is shedding thousands of those larvae and its species every day.
Kim:
[crosstalk 00:29:41] Go ahead, Dan, go ahead.
Dan:
No, I was just going to say, rabies and raccoon roundworm, I mean, those are just a couple of examples, but I mean, the public should understand. I mean, there are literally thousands of these diseases that can be transmitted between humans and animals and there are surely a lot of diseases that we don't even know about yet to get to your original question, Rachel, I mean, if you're looking at the big picture, if you're looking at the population level, one of the reasons that the majority of the new infections in humans are coming from wildlife of populations is because the circumstances of human society have changed to the point where we're making incursions onto areas that formerly used to belong to wildlife. We're building into their areas or we're exploiting them for food or medicine or the pet trade, or there's any number of environmental or we're destroying their habitat. So they're going to come into more contact with humans than they would have in the past. All of those things increase the interaction between wild populations and humans. And when you do that, you are just providing a perfect opportunity for diseases that used to just circulate in wildlife populations, to spill over into humans and into our domestic animals. There are reasons that have Evolved all for wildlife to be separate from humans. And this is just another one of them.
Kim:
Yeah. And for those of us that work in this realm of human health and wildlife health and production animal health there's this concept that we use, it's called one health and Dan has described what one health is perfectly it's considering all of the factors that are involved in a disease system based on the animals, the people and the environment. And so all of these things have a role to play in how diseases are through any population, whether it's animals or people. And I think for a lot of the listeners before COVID 19, most people really did not have a good understanding of these concepts. And we all know about influenza because we think of influenza as a human disease, this is another disease, very similar to COVID in that there's reservoirs and animals.
Kim:
There's strains of the virus that circulated animals. And this is a virus that can mix and match different pieces of the virus from the different animals and humans, and come up with a brand new virus that nobody has immunity to. And so every year we have to change the influenza vaccine because of these input from these different species, into the virus that circulates in people. So that's a virus with pandemic potential that we deal with all the time and everyone's very familiar with. But I think before COVID, nobody really understood very well, just this whole interface between people and animals, not in a real way. And this has really gotten everyone's attention as to why those of us who work in this area are very concerned about these situations, where we've got people or domestic animals in contact with wildlife, when that is not naturally, and normally something that should be happening.
Kim:
And we have to think about where we put our pig farms for and pull, or where we decide to build our houses. And I guess that's one thing that has come out of this, I think is it, does the general public does have a better understanding of these concerns that we have as agencies, whether it's the DNR and protecting the wildlife population in Michigan, or protect the human population from the standpoint of public health those are sort of the very big picture that we're trying to help people understand. And the other thing I think that I want to bring up is that I think people do hear these conservation messages. They're very concerned about wildlife health and the wildlife population. And so that's where some of this comes from, they hear that bats are threatened or that a certain species is losing its habitat.
Kim:
And so they want to do something to help as an individual. And so that's sometimes what drives people to try to help an individual animal. And so it's very hard to understand, or maybe accept that helping that individual is not helping the population as a whole, that this little effort that you're making is not helping. Just as an example, on the public health side, we will not infrequently learn about people who find a bat on, around outside of their home. And they've heard these messages that bats are threatened. They've lost their habitat, maybe white nose syndrome. They just have this general message that this is an endangered or threatened species. And so they take this bat in Michigan most of the bats that have contact with people or are pets, our big brown bats and then little brown bats would be the second most common.
Kim:
These are the bats that live around us in our homes, in our attics, in the barns, around our homes. And they are not threatened or endangered yet, but they're not. So they're not a population that's being impacted by something like white nose syndrome. And when you take that bat into your house and you try to feed it, or you have your kids try to feed it, you are potentially exposing your family to rabies. That's are the most common species to test positive for rabies in Michigan. And so these are situations where we're going to end up testing that bat and not infrequently these bats will test positive because they're on the ground, they can't fly, they're sick and a sick bat could be a rabid bat. And so then we end up having to have multiple people receive rabies post exposure treatment, which is a treatment that is not simple, it's not one shot.
Kim:
You have to return to the doctor several times to finish the treatment. It takes two to four weeks to finish the treatment. And it is also expensive and can be painful. So these are sort of the consequences of people wanting to do something to help wildlife populations, and they may not understand the disease risk. And so I think that's probably one of the things that those of us on this discussion today are trying to get across is that there is, there's a risk to the animal and there's also a risk to the person and the people involved.
Dan:
And another aspect of that I think the public often doesn't think about too, is that these diseases don't just move one way. We tend to think about the ones that move from wild animals to humans, but it's entirely possible for humans to infect wild animals with diseases. This happens with tuberculosis, human tuberculosis has become common in wild elephants in some places in Africa. And so if we really care about the welfare of these wildlife populations, part of that responsibility is also shielding them from our diseases too.
Jim:
I think one of the things that our listeners might be trying to decide then is, well, if we do find an animal, then what should we do? And I think many times, if it looks reasonably normal, if it's a fawn hiding under some ferns, mom hid it there. You should just leave it there and not mess with it. But if there's some animal hit by a car or something, and it needs help there are licensed rehabilitators that are all over the state that have training. Many of them have themselves been vaccinated for rabies because you can can't work with wild animals without getting bit or scratched or whatever, and put at risk. So the licensed rehabilitators that I think you can just go online, right Dan? And find out who the rehabilitators are in your county, in your area. And every county has a conservation officer who inspects these licensed rehabilitators to make sure that they have the proper facilities and the training to do it safely and humanely for the people and the animals.
Jim:
So there is a whole system out there, and the agencies that are invested with the responsibility, for the safety of those animals and those people are the ones who are regulating. The way to help is to do the right thing, baby cottontail rabbits people don't realize that they can't even poop for themselves. Their mom has to stimulate them to do that. And if you don't take over that responsibility, that animal dies a horrible death by these well intentioned people that were putting food in one end, and it wasn't coming out. The other. I think the way people can help is to understand that the reason that these regulations are in place is to protect them, the people and the animals, and to follow the law.
Dan:
And very broadly speaking too Jim, I mean, I think to just pull it back to a population level wild populations have survived for millennia without being saved by humans. I mean, it's a uniquely human characteristic for us to want to help, to want to do something, to help these populations. But sometimes the best thing that we can do to help is to just leave them alone. We have, in some respects, our intervention as humans, the things that we do to the environment has been much more of a detriment to these wild populations than anything that we're ever going to do by just wanting to help. So sometimes the best thing to do is to just leave them alone.
Rachel:
You took my question out of my mouth and answered it before I could ask the question I was, I was going to ask, what can people do if they find a hurt animal, if they find a bat in their house, if they come into contact and they want to care for it, what are the things that they can actually do for the animal? And it sounds like they should just stick to finding a licensed wildlife rehabilitator or leaving it be because if they found a wild animal, it's probably got something wrong with it. And it's best to let nature take its course.
Kim:
Yep. And there's a little special caveat on bats, so...
Jim:
Don't touch.
Kim:
If you find a bat, for example, in your home, which happens all the time, don't... A lot of people's first thought is, well, I'm just going to open the door and let it go. I would ask, I guess, as long as you are confident that nobody has had any contact with the bat, usually that's going to mean bites or scratch you or flies into other situations where we're concerned where contact could occur and someone might not be aware of it would be waking up to find a bat in the room where you've been asleep or finding a bat in a room with a person, an adult, or a child who can't account for their time in the room with that bat, they maybe impaired, or they're just too young to tell you whether they had any contact with the bat. Those are situations where we would want that bat collected, and you should call your local health department and discuss the situation with them before you release the bat. Because once- [crosstalk 00:42:08]
Kim:
Once it's gone. Yeah. We can't test it. And we can't know if it had rabies. And if we don't have the animal to test, then we have to recommend that the people who may have been exposed to the bat go through the rabies post exposure treatment. So that's sort of the special situation with bats and that's true too. If they've had any direct contact with say a raccoon or a skunk or some of these other wild carnivores, we would want you to try to collect the animal. If it's gone to contact your local health department and your healthcare provider about particular with the bite, getting care for that bite. So, that's just a little caveat.
Hannah:
That's great. Dan, you had brought this up earlier with tuberculosis as one of those diseases that not only can pass from animals to people, but from people to animals here in Michigan, we deal a lot with bovine tuberculosis in deer, and it impacts our cattle industry. So potentially a food source for people, as well as sometimes. I think we've had cases where hunters have been infected after handling a sick deer that they harvested. Could you talk a little bit more about bovine TB and how that kind of interacts with humans, our food source, that cattle industry, as well as the wild population.
Dan:
So bovine tuberculosis is a disease that the US department of agriculture has, has been trying to eradicate for over a century. And one of the reasons for that is that there was a time before pasteurization was common for milk from cows. That TB was quite common, especially in children, because there were cases of cattle, dairy, cattle that had TB, and they would shed the bacteria that causes bovine tuberculosis in their milk and then infect children. And so there's a long history that from a public health perspective that Kim could elaborate on, but at this point it is a disease that is very important to the cattle industry. It has a huge economic implications for the cattle industry and for global trade. And as you mentioned, we still have... Now that we can do, what's called whole genome sequencing of the bacteria that causes tuberculosis, we can actually... It makes it possible for us to make inferences about who infected whom, for example.
Dan:
And we have at least six cases now of TB in humans that in Michigan, that we know came from deer sources. So a couple of those were people that were infected from cuts in the skin when they were gutting or working with infected deer. There were some respiratory infections in older people who had hunted deer in the past. But most recently we have a situation of a patient who was actually sick with bine tuberculosis. They went into an emergency room with a respiratory infection and the staff at the hospital thought it was COVID. They presented with a collapsed lung, but actually when they worked up the case, they found out it was bovine tuberculosis. And now that Kim's group and others in the department of health and human services have done their epidemiology, the evidence suggest along with the whole genome sequences that we've got, that that person was infected in their youth when they were exposed to a deer in the TB area that was being rehabilitated illegally. We don't have these regulations that restrict what animals people can own or rehabilitate for no reason. We're not just trying to be Killjoys or to constrain people who want to help. You know, there are real reasons and real diseases that spread between animals and humans and to TB is just one of them it's here.
Jim:
And it's a good example. When you say where the deer get it, they got it from the cattle. So it's the livestock and the wildlife and the human populations that tuberculosis is a prime example of a zoonotic disease. That's a disease that goes from people to animals and from animals to people. And that's why the DNR regulates you can't put out big bait piles for deer hunting because you congregate the deer and potentially spread tuberculosis or chronic wasting diseases, another one of the big concerns that has a devastating impact on the population level and can certainly impact then a very important resource for Michigan hunting.
Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it isn't just baiting either Jim, like you say, I mean, feeding, this is one of the things people get mad because they say, well, why can't we feed the deer or why can't we feed these animals? And because we just want to see them well, the reality is when you feed wildlife like that, you're creating the conditions that make it way easier for these infectious diseases to be transmitted from animal to animal both directly and indirectly when uninfected animals eat contaminated feed. So again, feeding is another one of these situations where it's not that we're trying to just be kill joys, but there are reasons, there are good scientific and public health and animal health reasons that we implement these regulations. And it's not just done to be kill joys.
Hannah:
Wow. We've heard so many great insights, had some great discussion on why keeping wildlife in captivity, or even trying to help an injured, wild animal without proper permits and facilities is not beneficial for people or the animals. You know, we really appreciate all the insights that our panelists have brought to us today. And just a final recap for folks listening. If you do find a wild animal that looks injured, please, please contact a licensed wildlife rehabilitator for assistance or better yet just leave it be. A big thank you to our panelists today, Dr. Dan O'Brien Dr. Kimberly signs and Dr. Jim Karski. Thanks so much for being with us today.
Announcer:
Now is the time to apply. Applications for your chance to hunt a Michigan elk this fall are sale from May 1st through June 1st. Applications are just $5 visit michigan.gov/elk. For more information.
Hannah:
Welcome back to wild talk. Now let's dig into the mail bag and answer some of your questions.
Rachel:
First one is from Tony. Now Tony is getting ready to apply for a bear license and wants to know how to check his bear preference points total. He wants to know how many points he's going to have when he enters into the drawing for a bear license this year. This is great question, and it is a really great idea to check your total preference points before you apply in the bear application period to make sure all of your points are correctly listed under the correct ID, so that when you go to put in your application, all of your points go with your application. You can check your preference points totals by visiting the Michigan DNR's E-licensing system. And there's a box there that says check points and chances. So click on the box, log in with your information, and you should be able to see your point totals. Now, if you don't want to check them online, you can always contact the Michigan DNR's licensing division. You can reach them at (517)284-6057. Or if you do check online and you see there's an issue with your point totals, you can always give them a call and work through whatever the issue is. So great idea to check before you put in an application. Again, a reminder that the bear application period is from May 1st to June 1st.
Hannah:
Sherry emailed about a fawn found in a residential neighborhood. Now, as we've touched on in past episodes, and as you heard in our interview segment, fawns are a common sight in the spring, especially May and June. And you might spot in some seemingly unusual locations like backyards or neighborhoods near houses back porches. Now, the best thing you can do for the fawn is leave it be, and enjoy it from a distance leaving baby animals in the wild ensures that they have the best chance for survival. And although the fawn seems alone are the mother is nearby for the first few weeks of Whitetail deer's life. Its mother will hide it in secluded locations or what she considers a secluded location. It might not appear so to us. Now, as I mentioned, although the fawns may appear abandoned. They rarely are. This is a survival strategy that they use to keep the babys hidden.
Hannah:
So, and don't touch it either. Just leave it be there's a good chance it's supposed to be there. It's not uncommon for deer to leave their fawns unattended so as not to draw attention to where the fawn is hidden. Then the mother will return periodically to nurse her fawn when she feels it's safe and eventually the fawn will either get moved she'll move it to a different spot or it'll once it's big enough, it'll accompany its mother. So if you have additional questions or want to find out more about what to do if you find a baby animal in the wild visit, michigan.gov/wildlife.
Rachel:
Always good information to have this time of year. Speaking of this time of year, I did have one more question that we received from a handful of folks, all having a similar question. And it sounds like most of these people are homeowners or they're at they're interested in planting gardens or putting in flower pots some kind of plantings. And so these folks were wanting to know what type plants to put in their landscaping this spring to help pollinators and other wildlife species. So this one is for you, Luann, Brad and Taylor. Now there's a lot of really wonderful resources out there that can give you lists of plant species and specifically what kind of wildlife they will benefit. So certainly recommend you do your own research here, but we do have a few resources to help get you started. First is the Michigan landowners guide.
Rachel:
Now this resources, it is online. It's on the Michigan DNR website and you can Google a Michigan landowner's guide and it should bring it up for you. This resource is categorized by habitat management and species management. And if there's a specific type of wildlife species, you're hoping to build habitat for, you can read about it and the habitat requirements for that species so that you can kind of ch change and alter whatever kind of landscape you have to fit that species. And then under the habitat management section, you can also find lists of plant species and the types of conditions those plants grow best in. So it's very thorough. It's a very comprehensive resource recommend you take a look at that. The next one is from Ottoban. They have a website called plants for birds, where you can actually enter your zip code, and it will produce a laundry list of plants that are native to your area that will provide food and shelter for birds and various other wildlife.
Rachel:
It's a really cool feature. You can actually sort the types of plants you want, and even the types of birds you want to crack. So it's an awesome alternative to bird feeders, because it's going to benefit lots of other mammals or insects that are in the area they'll live in and eat from the plant. So you can find that on Ottoban's website. And lastly, Michigan state university extension has a native plants and ecosystem services website, which has also tons of good resources. That'll help you get started with choosing what kind of plants and then how to actually grow those plants. And then what benefits they provide to different types of species and things. So lots of videos, articles, other resources to help you make a plan for how to plant for wildlife. So with all of those resources mentioned, it's also important to keep in mind that if you do want to build wildlife habitat in your yard, you may see some unexpected species appear.
Rachel:
For example, if you put in lots of woody, shrubby species, because you want rabbits just be aware that you may also attract the animals that eat the rabbits like Hawks and coyotes. So just keep in mind, we don't really get to choose what wildlife is going to walk through our yard, but we can be mindful of the different attractive we allow to be in our yard. So lots of research to do there. It's a great time with spring, rolling around and plant sales and putting in our spring landscaping. So just think about how you can incorporate wildlife into your yard.
Hannah:
Good tips. Thank you, Rachel.
Rachel:
Yes, my pleasure. And that's what we've got for the mail bag this episode. So we'll zip the segment to a close. Remember if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call five one seven, two eight four wild, or email us at DNR`-WildlifeAtMichigan.gov. Your questions could be featured on the mail bag.
Announcer:
Now is the time to apply. Applications for your chance to hunt a Michigan black bear this fall are on sale from May 1st through June 1st. Applications are only $5 visit michigan.gov/bear for more information. There are many camping and lodging opportunities available in Michigan state parks. When you choose state park campgrounds, you get more than just a campsite. State parks offer a diverse range of recreational opportunities, including hands on instructional classes, nature programs, places to fish, boat launches, family friendly events, and much more reservations can be six months in advance. So why wait visit? MIDNRreservations.com or call 1(800) 44-parks to make a reservation.
Rachel:
Now your opportunity to win a wild talk podcast mug as a thank you to our listeners we'll be giving a mug or two away every episode.
Hannah:
Our April mug winners are Everett Sislo and Jared havens. Check your email as we'll be getting in touch with you soon, they answer the question. What kind of a bird that can be found here in Michigan has a brain that is upside down. And that answer is the wood. We will include a link to an interesting little article that explains why this is, has to do with where their eyes and ears are situated on their head.
Rachel:
Yes, Woodcock are awesome. I highly recommend you check out the article. It seems silly that their brain is upside down, but it's really advantageous and has been critical for the Woodcock survival. Check it out. So for this mug me question, we decided to do something a little bit different. We are going to play a recording. And the question is what frog species do you hear in this sound clip? You should be able to hear three different species. Though, some of them are much quieter than others. Now you only need to name one of those species you hear to be entered into the drawing.
Hannah:
All right, now you've had a chance to hear the frog calls, email your name and answer to us at DNR-wildlife@michigan.gov to be entered for a chance to win a mug. Be sure to include the subject line as mug me and submit your answer by May 15th. We'll announce winners and the answer on next month's podcast. So be sure to listen in and see if you've won and for the next quiz question.
Rachel:
Good luck. Now back to the show.
Hannah:
We'd like to wrap up this episode with a few quick tips for you to try if you're experiencing issues with Canada, geese on your property this Summer.
Rachel:
Yes, geese are especially attracted to lush lawns that are heavily fertilized, watered and mown. So if you live on a lake and you have geese frequently visiting your yard, try to make your lawn less attractive to them by allowing your grass to grow longer and not fertilizing or watering it, especially don't mow all the way to the water's edge. This tall grass along the edge of the water can create a natural barrier. And the geese may be less likely to move through the tall grass into the rest of your yard
Hannah:
And make sure you're not feeding the geese on purpose is especially if you don't want them hanging around, feeding them can cause them to get used to hanging around people which could make them harder to scare away and may make it harder to get them to leave the area in general.
Rachel:
Yeah, they very quickly become expectant and expect you to show up and feed them. So just avoid that all together by not starting. You can also employ some scare tactics to frighten them away using a combination of loud noises, such as shell crackers, bird, alarms, or bird bangers, distressed cries, screamers, electronic noise systems, along with visual deterrents, like a bird scare balloon, Mylar scare tape and plastic flags. Now these things used in any combination can often eliminate any conflicts with Canada geese, but also lots of other types of waterfowl.
Hannah:
Yes. And yelling and running after them can work well, too. I had some migrating geese stop by after he put down some grass seed one spring, and that's what I did to chase them off repeatedly for a few days. And then, they got the message and moved on. Thankfully, they didn't eat all my grass seed. So I do have a lawn, but they were quite hungry. Thought it was a good place to stop by for a snack. But I do this with all the critters that come through the yard that I don't want around chase after them yelling and screaming, acting a fool, it seems to be effective.
Rachel:
[crosstalk 01:01:24] every time.
Hannah:
It does. Scared away coyotes, and Fox, geese. It does work, especially if you come out of nowhere and surprise them. Keep in mind that in June and July, Canada, geese are malting and are unable to fly. During this time. You may want to try putting up just a temporary barrier between your yard and the water to help keep the flightless geese out of your yard. I hear snow fence can work well in this type of scenario. Additional information on how to handle conflicts with geese, including some population control options are available at michigan.gov/wildlife.
Rachel:
And of course there's always the hunting season. So if hunting is an option in your area, waterfowl seasons, aren't far away, you can find out about the Canada goose, hunting season dates and bag limits, and the waterfowl hunting digest, which will be available in the next month or two at Michigan.gov/waterfowl.
Announcer:
This has been the wild talk podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month in offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the wildlife division at (517)284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.