Announcer:
You know what the sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNR's Wildtalk Podcast. Welcome to the Wildtalk Podcast where representatives from the DNR's Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews, and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

Holly:
Hello everyone and welcome to Wildtalk. I'm your host, Holly Vaughn, and co-hosting with me today I have the fabulous Hannah Schauer and Rachel Leightner. Rachel, it's your first co-hosting gig with us. How do you feel? Are you excited?

Rachel:
I am so excited. Thank you for having me.

Holly:
Yes, it's great. Today's podcast is going to be a great one. We have obviously your questions from the mailbag. We'll also be chatting with Dr. Dan O'Brien, Dr. Jean Tsao, and Dr. Megan Porter all about ticks and tick-borne illnesses and a great new reporting tool, the Tick App. We'll end this podcast talking about preparing for the upcoming hunting seasons. But first, let's hear what's going on around the state.

Announcer:
Do you love to go fishing but hate waiting to see if your mom, dad, or another adult wants to go? Why not plan the outing yourself? You can initiate the next fishing trip you take by finding your gear, locating a place to fish, and asking an adult to go with you. Plan to head out Saturday, August 3rd, for the third annual Take an Adult Fishing Day in Michigan. On that day we'll ask anybody who takes an adult fishing to share their pictures with us using the hashtag, #takeanadultfishing. Find out more at michigan.gov/fishing.

Holly:
Well, summer's here, and it's officially roasting outside, and all over the state we are banding birds. We're planting crops. We're planting trees for wildlife. We just wrapped up some regulation setting, and we're updating informational materials in the Hunting Digest for upcoming hunting seasons and lots of other important work. Hannah, why don't you get us started with the report from the Upper Peninsula?

Hannah:
All right. So, this year, the Gwinn Wildlife Unit held a volunteer planting event with the Ruffed Grouse Society and Michigan United Conservation Clubs in southern Marquette County. Despite a few of the trucks getting stuck in the mud, the group was able to plant 72 crabapples and eight apple trees. Over 410 total trees have been planted this spring and summer by the Gwinn Unit's staff, volunteers, and contractors including the 80 planted during this volunteer event. They've been quite busy up there getting all those trees in the ground.

Hannah:
Also, the UP Wildlife staff recently banded 10 peregrine falcon chicks, so four in Houghton at the Lift Bridge and three in Sault Ste. Marie at the International Bridge, and three on Isle Royale. The peregrines are considered endangered in Michigan, though they are no longer federally endangered. Banding young peregrines helps us monitor the movement, breeding and survival rates of these birds as they strike out on their own in the fall.

Hannah:
Finally, a continuing research project looking at the role of predators, winter weather, and habitat on white-tailed deer in the Upper Peninsula has been capturing radio-colored fawns this spring. It looks like they've caught 48 fawns, so 26 males, 20 females, and two unknown were collared this spring. This research is meant to determine causes of mortality of deer in the Upper Peninsula. So seven collared fawn moralities were found. We had a couple as a result of coyote predation, a couple from bear, one from wolf, one that was unidentified, and one that was some other sort of natural cause. They've observed 10 dead radio-collared adult female deer moralities which were attributed to starvation, wolf predation, and then there was also an unknown cause for that. They've also collected 6,662 adult female GPS and radio locations and are continuing to radio monitor fawns for daily survival. On the predator side of the study, they have captured and collared 12 wolves, three coyotes, one bobcat, and five black bears. Since March, they have conducted investigations at 230 carnivore cluster sites to identify carnivore prey sources.

Holly:
That's a really fascinating study that's going on out there looking at the interaction between predator and prey and winter severity and all those things on deer mortality. We're going to link to that project's website in the show notes so you can read more about if you like. Rachel, what's going on in the northern Lower Peninsula?

Rachel:
It's summer time in Northern Michigan. Staff have been spending a good deal of time responding to calls about curious bears getting into trash cans or bird feeders or wandering around subdivisions. We're in the prime cookout season, so if you're outdoors grilling in Northern Michigan, it's important to remember to clean the grill of food debris or store it in your garage so the food odors don't attract bears.

Rachel:
Our Northern staff is also taking some time to be a part of the DNR Pathways program. The Pathways program introduces motivated juniors and seniors to future career opportunities with the DNR Wildlife, law, parks, forestry, and fisheries division. DNR biologists took 20 high school students around Houghton Lake to learn about the goose banding program, and then they get some hands-on experience. The group visited four sites. They banded 150 birds and experienced a day in the life of a wildlife biologist. Pretty cool stuff.

Holly:
That's really cool. I'm sure a lot of teenagers would love the chance to work alongside the DNR. That's a really neat program. What's going on in the southwest region, Rachel?

Rachel:
Summer in the southwest has been busy with habitat work. Staff have been working to plant crop and mow fields, move brush and clear trails. An important key player in making sure the boots on the ground work is getting completed is our non-career wildlife assistants. The wildlife assistants have been working through the rain and the heat to restore habitat and prep state game areas for this fall. There are currently several wildlife assistant jobs open right now across the state, so if you're interested in working in a hands-on environment and enjoy working outdoors or talking with hunters at check stations, please visit the DNR job opportunities webpage and apply.

Rachel:
In addition to that habitat work, the Echo Point Shooting Range in Allegan is undergoing renovations. The range will now include a new parking lot, accessible pathways, new structures and benches for shooters, new berms and ricochet baffles to improve safety. There will also be sound abatement structures being installed to decrease the sound impact to our surrounding properties.

Rachel:
Finally, southwest staff have been assisting the USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services with FLIR survey. FLIR stands for forward-looking infrared radar and is a survey method used to estimate a minimum deer population in a specific area. These surveys are done at night using infrared technology to see and count the deer. The surveys will help to estimate the number of deer in the CWD areas that USDA culls have been held in. Later in August, the removal process for the Trowbridge Dam in Allegan will begin. Stay tuned for the September podcast for updates on the project.

Holly:
There's a little more work going on in the southwest, too, though technically it's centrally and here in the main office. What's up in Lansing?

Hannah:
The Natural Resources Commission finalized their deer regulations in mid-July for the 2019 hunting season, so we're working on getting the 2019 Hunting Digest set to go with all the updated regulations in there. We're also working on updating various chronic wasting disease information, a little handouts for deer hunters and other partners so we can make sure that everyone understands the new regulations. You can find all this updated chronic wasting disease information at michigan.gov/cwd. We'll talk a bit about some of the new regulations during the mailbag segment coming up a little bit later. Holly, what's going on in the southeast?

Holly:
Well, in the southeast we are banding ducks. We just finished banding geese in July, and now we're banding ducks. We use swim-in traps and rocket nets that are fired over the ducks. Staff are capturing these ducks, applying silver metal bands to the ducks' legs and then releasing them. We primarily band Mallards and wood ducks, though we do occasionally get a Teal or a Gadwall or Wigeon in there, too, but mostly Mallards and wood ducks in this state. We band hundreds of ducks each summer. It's pretty exciting work and a nice break for our team to take a break from the hot tractor work and march around the water and band some ducks, which is pretty fun. We're also planning for the Pointe Mouillee Waterfowl Festival, which is September 21st and 22nd this year. Be sure to mark your calendars, and we hope to see you there. Then also at Pointe Mouillee we had a really fascinating youngster hatch this year. One of our partners from Detroit Audubon photographed an American white pelican chick in the Vermet Unit at the Pointe Mouillee State Game Area-

Hannah:
Oh cool.

Holly:
... which is super cool. So this is probably the first pelican chick on record. Well, it's definitely the first pelican chick on record at Pointe Mouillee State Game Area, and it's probably the first American white pelican chick on Lake Erie, period-

Female:
Wow.

Holly:
... which is really exciting. This is a species that's expanding its range, and some day they may be a regular breeder in Michigan, but right now they're fairly rare to see in the state.

Hannah:
Wow, great things are happening for wildlife statewide. Stay tuned because next up is our interview with Dr. O'Brien, Dr. Tsao, and Dr. Porter.

Announcer:
Did you know that Michigan lies where the Atlantic and Mississippi migratory flyways intersect? This brings over 340 species of birds to Michigan each year. Follow MI Birds on Facebook to learn more about our feathered friends, year-round guided bird walk, stewardship events, and community science opportunities near you. MI Birds is an education and outreach program created by Audubon Great Lakes in the Michigan DNR. Search MI Birds on Facebook. That's M-I birds.

Holly:
Well, we are jammed packed here today in the studio. There's six of us in here. Today here in the studio we have Dr. Dan O'Brien of the DNR Wildlife Disease Lab, and Dr. Jean Tsao. She is an associate professor of the Fisheries and Wildlife Department over at Michigan State University. And we have Dr. Megan Porter, a graduate student also at Michigan State University. Welcome to all three of you. Thank you for being here today.

Dan:
Thanks for having us.

Jean:
Thank you.

Holly:
Today we're talking about ticks. We are finding more and more lately with our phone calls and emails that we get into our department. People are looking for tick-related information and have concerns about ticks. Growing up, I don't really remember ticks being much of an issue in Michigan. It seems like things are changing. Has something changed, or was I just unaware of the tick situation when I was younger?

Jean:
Holly, I think the situation is changing. This is largely due to the fact that the black-legged tick, also known as the deer tick which is the vector for the Lyme disease pathogen, has been increasing in its abundance and in its spatial distribution within Michigan. That's not unlike other places in the US. In Michigan actually there have been many tick species here already, but the most prevalent one is the American dog tick. That's been around, and it's been around in the Upper Peninsula and in the Lower Peninsula. But in the late or mid-'80s, 1980s, the black-legged tick was first discovered in Menominee County in the UP. Since that time, it's been spreading somewhat in the UP. Then some time in the early 2000s it was detected, the same tick, in southwestern Michigan, and then over that time it's just been spreading.

Jean:
It may have been here in low numbers before in the Lower Peninsula in the late '90s, early 2000s, but certain something then changed, and its abundance just grew. We first saw it really, as far as ticks go, racing up the lake shore of Lake Michigan in those coastal dune forests. Students in my lab have studied beginning in 2004 and actually Erik Foster, who was at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, actually he started studying this with Ned Walker and other folks at the Michigan DNR including Steve Schmitt at the time who was the state veterinarian at the time. They had looked at black-legged ticks on hunter-harvested deer in the early 2000s, and they saw that there were some more ticks in southwestern Michigan. Then when my student Sarah Hamer came, she was working with Dr. Graham Hickling who used to be here with me also, and we saw the tick progressing up the Lake Michigan lake shore from southwest Michigan up the Sleeping Bear Dunes in the matter of, I would say, six, seven years and-

Female:
Wow.

Jean:
... the numbers just have increased. Now certainly the ticks have spread inland a bit. Lansing is a little bit of a hotbed in certain areas for the black-legged tick, and they've actually reached over to the Lake Huron shoreline. But the distribution's still patchy, so some areas in the state, we still have a very hard time finding the black-legged tick, but in other areas I think a lot of people, including yourself, have been noticing more ticks. Then on top of that, unfortunately not as much has been studied really carefully looking at the changes in the dog tick, American dog tick numbers, but from what I understand talking to people like Dan O'Brien and others who spend lots of time outdoors, it seems that the dog tick has been increasing in abundance as well. So even though it's widespread, the numbers seem to be increasing more.

Holly:
That's the one I see most often.

Jean:
You hadn't seen it much when you were growing up.

Holly:
When I find a tick on me-

Jean:
That's right.

Holly:
... it's usually a dog tick. You've talked a little bit black-legged ticks and the dog tick. Can you explain maybe the differences between those and any other tick species that might be found here in Michigan?

Jean:
Here in Michigan, as you were just saying, the American dog tick is, well, the most commonly found tick by people and their companion animals. We know that from data of tick submissions to the state health department as well as my graduate student has been looking at pictures received by the public through the Tick App and then also in her work looking at ticks that are presented on dogs from veterinarians. The American dog tick is the most prevalent. Then it's the black-legged tick. Then from time to time we also get on dogs and people this tick called the Woodchuck tick, which is in the same family as the black-legged tick. Then there are few others that are much less commonly run into by people and companion animals.

Jean:
The differences are, well, visually they look different, but also they are different because from a human health standpoint and animal health standpoint, they transmit different pathogens. The American dog tick is most well known for transmitting the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and other bacteria in the Spotted Fever group. They can cause people to feel like they have the flu and such, and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever can be fatal. However, those pathogens are at much lower prevalence amongst the tick population, so we rarely hear about people in Michigan contracting Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever although it happens every few years and so press releases to remind people that beware of this. You still have to be aware of this tick causing problems even though many of us have picked them off of us in the field.

Jean:
The American dog tick in our areas up here in the Midwest is often known as the wood tick. That's very important to get across. These are the two names for the same species. I should say as a visual I heard this from someone, I thought it was great, that usually there are these larger brown ticks, but the female adult tick, and they come in male and female forms, she has this little creamy coloring that sometimes people call a necklace on her topside. Then the males, however, they have a coloration pattern that extends their whole body. Some people call it looking more like golden pinstripes. So a little way to differentiate the male and female-

Female:
Yes, indeed.

Jean:
... dog tick.

Female:
Necklace and pinstripes.

Jean:
That's right.

Female:
I like that.

Dan:
Very nice.

Jean:
Then the black-legged tick, or also, aka, its other name is the deer tick, is the one that transmits the Lyme disease pathogen, Borrelia burgdorferi. There are multiple stages that people can encounter, the adult stage, and so the female tick, she has this red covering... Her body looks mostly red, and she has a little black shield. Then the male is just pretty much all dark brown and black. They say the male is like the size of a sesame seed, and the female's a little larger. Then the nymphal stage, or what we call the teenage stage, is pretty much the size of a poppy seed and so people make-

Holly:
That's tiny.

Jean:
Yes, it's a little poppy seed with legs, eight legs, and more dark coloring. Then the larval stage which people hardly ever see, people might call them seed ticks, they come across them when a whole bunch come on them, but those are little. They have six legs, and they're even smaller.

Holly:
You've talked a little bit some of the human health risks that are associated with ticks. Let's dive a little deeper into the Lyme disease concern with black-legged ticks. There is a connection with deer and mice and black-legged ticks. What is that connection, and what is that relationship there?

Jean:
The black-legged tick has four life stages. It's got the egg stage. Then it's got the larval stage which has six legs, the nymphs, which have eight legs, and then the adults, which, morphologically, you could actually see males and females. Ticks are obligate parasites. They have to get a blood meal at every stage. The larva is going to be looking for a host. These ticks, also, they don't run after anyone, and they don't fly, and they don't drop from trees.

Dan:
They don't drop out of trees on people's heads either.

Jean:
That's right. The mom lays the eggs in one clutch something like 500 to 2,000 eggs at one time. Then the larvae emerge. They hatch out of their eggs. They are hungry, and they're looking for hosts. So they will wave their front pair of legs in this term we call questing, questing for a host because ticks don't have antennae, but they have little organs at the tip of their front pair of legs right under their claws. They wave them in the air, and they sense things like heat, the passage of light, maybe some carbon dioxide that hosts might emanate. So when a host comes by, they also feel vibrations as such, and they may attach. Then they'll attach to a host. There can be many different species of hosts that larvae feed on. People have counted maybe 100, 150. It depends. They're generalist parasites, so they'll feed on small mammals, mice, voles, shrews. They'll feed on birds that forage on the ground so robins, catbirds-

Dan:
Ovenbirds.

Jean:
... ovenbirds, yes, and in certain places if they exist, they will feed on lizards as well. Actually, we saw a great picture from one of our summer workers from Port Crescent State Park that was of five-lined skink, so they will feed on five-lined skinks. They love skinks. They will then definitely feed on medium-sized and large-sized mammals, so raccoons, possums, skunks, squirrels, and then white-tailed deer as well as bear, etc. The larvae can feed on all of these, but they tend to feed mostly on probably the small mammals in part because the small mammals are so numerous and in their habitat running around in our woods here.

Dan:
Just more likely basically that they're run into a rodent than a lot of other things.

Jean:
Yes, right. Then what happens is they take their blood meal. They're on the host for about three, four days. It takes them that long to suck enough blood to be fully engorged. Larvae are born without the infection, so at that point if the host is infected, they will suck in the pathogens, these spirochetes that cause Lyme disease. Then what'll happen is these larvae, when they finish feeding, they'll detach from the host, drop into the leaf litter, and they will undergo development and molt into the nymphal stage. They'll grow another pair of legs. They'll be a little bigger.

Jean:
If they were infected in their larval blood meal, they will then be infected as unfed nymphs, hungry to get on another host. Then when a host pass by... Again, all the same types of hosts, these nymphs would be feeding on just like they had as larvae. Then if it's a host species that actually can get infected with the Lyme disease pathogen, because not all hosts can, then the nymph will transmit that pathogen to the host. Then that host will become infected and be able to pass it back to any other larvae or nymphs that feed on it. After it finishes feeding, it's infected, it drops into the leaf litter to molt into the adult.

Jean:
When it comes out as a male or female, it will be infected. But the females and the male, what happens next? They need a blood meal, but they also need to find each other and mate. That's the job of the adult tick. Again, unlike mosquitoes, they don't fly around, and they don't do massive migrations to find a host and find each other. What happens is they just wait and they queue to a large host. In our ecosystems, the most abundant large host is the white-tailed deer. When they do that, they get on a host, then they're actually able to get their blood meal, and they're probably going to be likely to find their mate. So I often say to my classes, it's just like when people want to find each other, a partner or a spouse, instead of going out just randomly, they go to a bar, something like that, coffee shop or whatever is your type of place.

Dan:
So a deer is like a tick bar.

Jean:
Exactly. For audiences who might remember, I think of it as a tick Love Boat-

Female:
There you go. I love it.

Dan:
Something a little more romantic.

Jean:
... and it's cruising around in the woods.

Female:
The Love Boat.

Jean:
The thing is in terms of infection, the deer aren't component hosts. They cannot be a host for the pathogen, I should say. They're great hosts for the adult ticks and the female ticks, the large blood meal. Once she's mated, then she's able to drop off and then lay her eggs, and then she dies, unfortunately. But then the deer does not become infected, so it can't ever transmit this pathogen to any other subsequently feeding ticks. But also what happens then the whole life cycle of the pathogen comes to a screeching halt because the female does not pass her pathogen on, the Lyme disease spirochetes onto the baby ticks. That's why when the baby ticks are born, they're uninfected. So ticks don't transmit the pathogen onto future generations of ticks, and the hosts don't pass on the infection to their progeny. So it has to be this tag team dynamic.

Dan:
Which is interesting to me because they even have the name, the deer tick, so a lot of people think that deer play a big role in transmission of Lyme disease. But essentially what you're saying is that other than just being a sort of meeting place for the ticks and a place for them to get a blood meal, they actually cut off the infection rather than act as a source of Lyme disease for more ticks.

Jean:
That's right. Actually in some areas, they've seen some research in Sweden and others, the more ticks you have, I'm sorry, the more deer you have, the lower the proportion of ticks that are infected.

Dan:
Which is really interesting because I think most of our listeners will think the opposite. Again, because the tick is called the deer tick, people think where you have really abundant populations of white-tailed deer you're going to have a lot of Lyme disease, but that isn't necessarily the case.

Jean:
But what happens is-

Dan:
But.

Jean:
... when you have more deer, you have more ticks.

Dan:
Sure.

Jean:
So proportionally they're less infected, but number-wise you may have more infected ticks. Then your listeners might say, "Ah, maybe I was right.

Dan:
There you go.

Jean:
There would be more infected ticks." But the relationship is a little more complex than that, so you can't always predict how much Lyme disease in the tick population there will be just based on the deer population. But there are other hosts out there that vary in how well they can host the tick and the pathogen, so the host community of wildlife really plays a strong role, a large role in contributing to what proportion of ticks are infected in a given area.

Dan:
Jean, you spoke earlier about the emergence of ticks along the west coast of Michigan from where they were, say, 20 to 30 years ago. I mean what's the transport mechanism? Is it movements of these ticks on deer? Are the deer transport hosts, or do they move on birds or both?

Jean:
Yeah, both. So the ticks, again, they can't fly. They crawl limited distance. So all of their dispersal is based on the host they feed so on the backs of furry hosts, scaly hosts, or on the feathers of winged animals. The actual spread up the coast in the manner that it did, which was very gradual and it seemed very much continuous, that suggests to me that most of the spread was probably just by one community of hosts each year just spreading their ticks, moving them up northwards in their normal dispersal patterns. So every animal population once it has their babies, babies usually have to, as juveniles, disperse somewhat because there aren't enough resources, either food or homes, for that population. So to reduce competition, they usually move.

Jean:
So I think just some of that movement, and that could still be some movement for any of these hosts that host the ticks, but certainly perhaps with the deer, they can move a little further depending on what deer movement is like in that area but certainly little rodents and such. Sometimes people think about, wow, that distance, probably birds maybe through migration they would be spreading. That's definitely possible, but then we have to think about when birds would pick up ticks and when they would actually dispersing. Would they actually be spreading them in their breeding period or when the fledglings are moving, or is it in the fall and spring when they're migrating? In this case, the spring for moving northwards. But then we need to talk to the ornithologist more to see how much of that migration, bringing ticks somewhere, like for instance the southern US or southwest Michigan, what would be more likely for them to be spreading ticks gradually off the coasts.

Jean:
In some ways I think if birds were more involved, actually it may look more like, I don't know, not shotgun certainly because birds, they will migrate in certain areas, going to riverine ways. They'll have preferred places to go. But if they were actually spreading ticks a lot more we may see little, I would think, bullseyes or little bombs maybe in different areas. It may be more patchy in how they disperse the ticks as opposed to this gradual continuous movement off the lake shore. But having said that, I bet there could be, certainly, little areas that are receiving ticks from birds. That might be a reason why we see some of the more spread of the black-legged tick and certainly in some of these other far outlying areas like the coast of Lake Huron but yet not so much. Like that I-75 corridor from Midland up to the bridge, we don't seem to be seeing as many ticks there, although deer populations, small mammal populations would be just as abundant there.

Dan:
So it isn't just the abundance of the host for the tick either.

Jean:
Yeah and the habitat. One of the reasons why we think the coast has been good for the ticks as a first initial place was that perhaps they came down and around the lake shore from Wisconsin. It took them a while to get through Chicago and Indiana. But once they got here, they had these coastal forests, and researchers have found that, perhaps, sandy soils might be a very good type of, I guess, substrate. The earth might be a very good habitat there.

Rachel:
We've talked a little bit about Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. What are some other dangers that might ticks pose to people?

Megan:
The deer tick or the black-legged tick can also transmit a disease called anaplasmosis which has signs that are similar to Lyme disease in humans. Both Lyme disease and anaplasmosis can be transmitted to your family dog as well as to the rest of the members of your family, and in some cases Lyme disease can also be transmitted to your horses. The black-legged tick or deer tick can pose that additional danger to the other members of your family.

Megan:
We have another very rare tick that we see sometimes in Michigan called the Lone Star tick. A lot of times this tick is familiar to people because the adult female has this really bright, iridescent white spot on her back. She's absolutely gorgeous. But unfortunately, Lone Star ticks have been linked to what has been called a meat allergy. There's a compound in the tick's saliva when these ticks bite called alpha-gal that can cause a hypersensitivity reaction or an allergy in some people who are predisposed to it that causes them to have an allergic reaction to red meat. That includes bacon-

Female:
No!

Megan:
... for all of those who enjoy eating bacon.

Dan:
Not bacon!

Female:
Not bacon!

Dan:
Anything but that.

Megan:
That's usually the response I get: not the bacon! Unfortunately, these people get bitten by a tick, and then hours later after they've eaten a meal that consists of some sort of red meat, they'll have this hypersensitivity reaction, and they don't know why. They just wake up in the middle of the night having a severe allergic reaction, and they have to go to the hospital for this. So that's something to keep in mind. We haven't seen a lot of instances of the Lone Star tick in Michigan, and we certainly don't think that it's firmly established in any great numbers in Michigan yet, but we do see handfuls of ticks that are submitted through the tick submission program with the state health department as well as through the Tick App where we get pictures of ticks sent in to us.

Holly:
What are some types of ways that people could prevent potential tick bites?

Megan:
There are a couple of different strategies that you can use to prevent tick bites. The very first strategy is to just prevent ticks from getting on you in the first place. That includes when you go out into an area that could contain tick habitats, and that changes depending on the type of tick that you're talking about, we recommend that you wear an EPA-approved tick repellent. This includes DEET, picaridin, lemon oil of eucalyptus, those type of products. We usually recommend that the active ingredient in that product is at least 20%. That includes most of the mosquito repellents that you find in your local store.

Megan:
We also recommend that you go out in long sleeves and long pants. Now with the type of weather that we see in Michigan in July and August, that could be really difficult. We recommend that you tuck your pants into your socks and wear tall boots if you can. In addition, there's a product called permethrin that is not to be used on your skin like DEET or picaridin but can be used to treat your clothing. This will actually kill and repel ticks that get onto your clothing as you're walking through tick habitat. Those strategies will help you to repel any ticks that get on you while you're out in tick habitat. We also recommend that while you're in tick habitat, stay on groomed trails.

Megan:
Once you've gone out into the forest, you've come home, and you've done everything that you could to prevent getting ticks on yourself, we recommend that you take a shower within two hours of coming home. Not that you're necessarily going to wash the ticks off, but this will give you an opportunity to do a really thorough tick check on any parts of your body that are protected, they're nice and humid, and you're not going to just brush them off. So we're thinking behind your knees, in the groin area, along the waistband, in your armpits, around the bra strap area for women, and then behind your ears and up into your hair.

Dan:
So Megan, let's say one of our listeners finds a tick then, is there a correct way that you can remove those ticks? Because there's a lot of stuff out there on the internet, some of which looks pretty sketchy.

Megan:
I know that's there's a lot of advice out there that you should cover it with Vaseline, or you should burn it off, or you should use alcohol on it to suffocate the tick. Don't do any of that. Because there is a threshold of time during which transmission of certain pathogens can happen, you really want to get the ticks off as fast as you possibly can and let them blood meal for as little time as possible. We recommend that you take tweezers, the pointier the tweezers the better, so we do recommend that you go to the hardware store and get some fine-tipped tweezers. They're pretty easy to find. You want to grasp the tick as close to the skin as possible. You don't want to squeeze the tick in the middle of the body because then they're squeezing tick gut into your cut.

Megan:
You want to grasp it as close to the skin as possible. If you get a little of your skin along with the tick, you're just doing a really thorough job. You want to grasp that tick and pull straight up and out. It might take a little bit of force to get the tick out because they do cement themselves into your body, but you just pull that sucker out. You don't have to twist. You don't have to do anything fancy. Just pull it out.

Megan:
Then we recommend that you save your tick. Don't flush it done the toilet. Don't squish it and put it in the garbage. We recommend that you put it in a Ziploc bag with a moist paper towel or cotton ball, and you can put that in your refrigerator. That way if you do become sick within, say, a month's time, you can take that tick to your doctor, and that will give them a little bit more of an idea of what illnesses they may be dealing with since not all ticks transmit the same pathogens. We also recommend that you take a photo of it and send it either to the Tick App or to the Michigan state health department photo submission. Then you can also submit your actual tick if it's still alive to the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services where they have a tick identification and testing program.

Rachel:
What about ticks getting on your pets? Are there any prevention protocols or anything you can do to help keep your pet safe from ticks?

Megan:
Oh, absolutely.

Jean:
That's really important because also pets can present a risk to the family for ticks.

Megan:
I always recommend that you contact your veterinarian and get a good tick prevention product from them. There are a lot of different products on the market that will also work against fleas as well, and nobody wants those in their house.

Hannah:
We've been hearing a lot about this new tick app. Dr. Porter, would you be able to tell us a little bit more what it is, and what do you hope to learn from it?

Megan:
Absolutely. The Tick App is a mobile health application or app that was designed by researchers at Michigan State University, at the University of Wisconsin Madison, and Columbia University to identify the behaviors that bring people in contact with ticks. Because we talked earlier that the main way that we have to prevent tick-borne diseases is by just not contacting ticks in the first place. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of research, especially in the Midwest, to tell us where people are contacting their ticks. So the point of the Tick App was to ask people where are they contacting ticks, and what are they doing in their everyday lives when they're contacting these ticks to help us identify and narrow down our prevention messages so that we can really target those behaviors and help people to do the best job to avoid ticks in the first place and then to prevent ever developing a tick-borne disease.

Hannah:
How can people participate or submit their tick data to the app?

Megan:
The Tick App is available through the Apple App Store as well as through Android apps stores as well. Then there's also a website where they can go and find places where they can download the app as well.

Hannah:
Okay, great. We'll be sure to include links in our show notes for folks so they can find it pretty easily. Well, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it, so thank you Dr. O'Brien, Dr. Tsao, and Dr. Porter. Next, stay tuned because we're going to unzip our mailbag and answer your wildlife question.

Announcer:
Is it time to renew the license plate on your car or truck? When that moment arrives, show your support for Michigan elk and conservation by getting the wildlife habitat plate at the secretary of state. 2018 was the hundredth year since the reintroduction of elk to the state of Michigan. While the elk has been here for over a century, this plate is only available for a limited time so don't miss out. Visit mi.gov/elk and click on the license plate for more information.

Holly:
Welcome back to Wildtalk. I'm Holly and hosting with me is Hannah and Rachel. We're going to continue this episode by answering some of your questions from our mailbag.

Announcer:
One, two, three.

Rachel:
We received a great question from Caleb. Now Caleb is a hunter in Montcalm County. He asked for clarification on the new 4-point Antler Point Restriction regulation. Due to the new APR study going on in Montcalm, Mecosta, and Ionia Counties, any antler deer harvested with a deer license or deer combo license including the regular or restricted tags must have a minimum of 4 points on one side.

Holly:
Well, speaking of the CWD management zone where the new APR is now in place, Rick wrote in and asked, "I'm curious why Midland County is being added to the chronic wasting disease list." What Rick is referring to here is that at the July 11th Natural Resources Commission meeting Midland, Barry, and Lenawee Counties were added to the CWD management zone. He's confused because there haven't been any cases of CWD documented in those counties, and he wonders why Midland was added to the zone.

Holly:
We recently identified a deer with chronic wasting disease in Pine River Township in Gratiot County. When we find a new disease detection, we implement the steps outlined in our CWD surveillance plan, and we'll add a link to that plan in the show notes, but we draw a five-mile circle around where that deer was found, and we include that area within the circle in the CWD management zone. The circle extends just into the southwest corner of Midland County. Thus it has been added to the CWD management zone. So we now have Midland, Barry, and Lenawee Counties as part of the CWD management zone. For hunters in those three counties, there are some new regulations that were not in place for them last year. Those include a baiting and feeding ban which, of course, includes the whole of the Lower Peninsula. There's also some carcass movement restrictions out of the CWD management zone. For more information, you can visit mi.gov/cwd.

Hannah:
On the subject of baiting and feeding, Jeff wanted to know if the baiting and feeding ban was in place in the Upper Peninsula. In the Upper Peninsula, baiting and feeding is still allowed except for in the core CWD surveillance area which has a baiting and feeding ban effective immediately. This core area comprises over 600 square miles defined by major roadways in portions of Menominee, Delta, and Dickinson Counties, kind of around that single case of a CWD-positive deer that was found last year. So consistent with regulations in the Lower Peninsula, there is an exception to the baiting ban in the UP core area for hunters with disabilities during the Liberty and Independence Hunts. Again, as Holly mentioned, all our CWD regulations are available on the website and then also look for the 2019 Hunting Digest.

Rachel:
Speaking of baiting and feeding, we received a question from Ryan asking what the differences are between baiting and food plots since both attract and feed deer. This is a great question since baiting and food plots are similar but still different. Baiting is defined as the substance of grains, minerals, fruits, salt, hay, or any other food material that is used to attract deer for any reason. So salt blocks, piles of corn, sugar beets, fruit scraps, these are all examples of baiting and are all illegal in the Lower Peninsula and the core CWD surveillance area in the UP.

Rachel:
Food plots are defined as naturally occurring foods, such as standing agriculture crops or foods placed as a result of using normal agricultural practices, so hunting deer over a bean field planted on your own private property is legal to do so. The differences between baiting and food plots is that baiting brings deer into a very concentrated spot where deer may easily come into contact with each other or each other's saliva, for an example, at a salt block. Food plots do attract deer as well, but oftentimes the deer are dispersed through a field and unlikely to come into direct contact. It is important to remember that baiting was banned in an effort to limit the spread of chronic wasting disease by limiting the amount of direct contact between deer.

Hannah:
I think looking at our mailbag, it's all about deer, and this next question is no exception to that. I got a note from Steve wondering where he could find quotas for antlerless deer. Hopefully most of you have got in your application for antlerless deer hunting. The application period started July 15th and goes through August 15th, so if you've not gotten your application in for your antlerless deer license, there's still time. Quotas are available at michigan.gov/deer, and you can find all of our antlerless quotas. We have gotten a few questions related to... on the antlerless quota sheet, there a few spots where it says AWA. That just means that those licenses would be available without application beginning September 9th at 10:00 a.m.

Hannah:
When you are applying online, public land hunt numbers begin with a number 1, and private land hunt numbers begin with the number 2, so do keep that in mind when you're applying. And make sure that you only put in one application. You can apply for either public land or private land, not both. Additionally, young hunters 16 and under can buy their antlerless licenses over the counter during this application period. You have, again, through August 15th to put in your application, or those young hunters 16 and under can purchase their license through August 15th.

Holly:
Don't forget when you're purchasing your antlerless application, grab a Pure Michigan hunt application at the same time, and you could be eligible to hunt an elk in Michigan, which is very exciting. As we zip this segment to a close, remember if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call 517-284-WILD or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov, or you can stop by one of our offices. Your question could be featured on our next mailbag segment.

Announcer:
Check Yes for the Recreation Passport when you renew your license plate at the Michigan secretary of state. The Recreation Passport is just $11 when purchased with your license plate registration renewal and is your key to visiting more than 100 state parks, accessing staff public boat launches, parking for rustic forest camp grounds and hundreds of miles of trails, attending free family outdoor events and classes, and protecting our natural resources for the next generation. Visit michigan.gov/recreationpassport for more information.

Holly:
Well, we're going to wrap up this month's podcast with ideas about how you can prepare for the upcoming fall hunting seasons, which are right around the corner. Hard to believe, the first elk hunt starts August 27th. Early goose and early Teal seasons starts September 1st, and bear season starts shortly thereafter. So now's the time to start preparing for those hunting seasons.

Rachel:
That's right Holly. This is a great time to sign up for a hunter safety class if you are new to hunting. For brand new hunters, taking an education class is required in Michigan, although new hunters may hunt on an apprentice license for two years, but after that hunters must take hunter education. The apprentice license is good for people who want to give hunting a shot but aren't ready to fully commit to it just yet.

Rachel:
Hunter ed classes are structured in a couple different ways. Students can sign up for a two-day instructor-led class, or they can take the bulk of the class online and then attend a three to four-hour field day session where you can learn how to handle firearms and take your hunter ed exam at the end. There are classes all around the state, and you can find a list at mi.gov/learntohunt. Also on the Learn to Hunt page, you'll see tips for learning to hunt including what gear to purchase, classes to take to improve your skills, information about apprentice hunting and the Mentored Youth Hunt, hunting regulations and rules and license info and also where to find public hunting land. Hannah, can you tell us a bit about the webpages and web apps that can help hunters find places to hunt?

Hannah:
I surely can. No matter where you are in Michigan you can find public hunting land with millions of acres available to the public for hunting. The Mi-HUNT mapping application can help you navigate with the most up to date information to help you plan your hunting trip. Also on the Learn to Hunt page, there is a collection of maps that identify all lands that are open to public hunting in Michigan. You can click on a particular county and see the state forests or wildlife management and parks and recreation lands that are administered by the DNR that are open to hunting but also federal lands and private lands that are open to the public through the Hunting Access Program or the Commercial Forest Act. You might also look to see which state wildlife and game areas are near you.

Holly:
So there are plenty of opportunities both for public land and private land hunting all around Michigan, so it's just about time everybody to get out there and do some fall hunting. That wraps up this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast. We'll see you back here September 1st for another episode.

Announcer:
This has been the Wildtalk Podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 or dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.