Katie:
Welcome, it's the DNR Wild tyke...

Eric:
The Wild Tyke Podcast where your toddlers run wild through the woods. I'm going to totally leave that in.

Katie:
Thank you, thank you.

Announcer:
You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNR's Wild Talk Podcast. Welcome to the Wild Talk Podcast where representatives from the DNR's wild life division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers, and fur. With insights, interviews, and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan. 

Katie:
Welcome to the DNR Wild Talk Podcast. I'm your host today, Katie Keen, and I have our producer with us, Eric Hilliard.

Eric:
Two months in a row, can you believe it?

Katie:
We are coming at you with the September podcast. Pretty exciting that it's already September. Things are changing, ferns are getting brown, you know fall is on its way. What do you got going on in your world?

Eric:
My kids are already in school. That's how lucky I am. Yours is not in school yet, right?

Katie:
No. We still have days to go. We are an after Labor Day school system up here. So what we got coming up in this September podcast is our 'Around the State' segment where we reach every corner of the state. We're talking about what staff are up to. It gives you a little insight into what's going on with the wildlife division of the DNR. If you ever ask yourself, "What are we doing?" This is a great little way to find out. We're gonna follow up with an interview with Dr. Kelly Straka.

Katie:
She is our state wildlife veterinarian. We're gonna just dig a little bit deeper into Chronic Wasting Disease, specifically. But we're not gonna leave out Bovine Tuberculosis. We're gonna also touch on that. Following that segment with Dr. Kelly Straka, we're gonna unzip the mailbag, and we're gonna give you a little lead in of what's going on in our world again. You're getting that insight of the calls we're getting, e-mails, probably questions that you're having yourself. So it's a fun segment to just give you a little glimpse of what's going on.

Katie:
Then we're gonna follow up with elk viewing. September and October are great times to get up north and go view an elk in Michigan. Hey Eric, did you know we have elk in Michigan?

Eric:
I actually did. But a lot of people don't.

Katie:
Okay, you did pass the test. Okay, good. We do work together, right, so I've probably screamed it from the rooftops, but a lot of folks don't know.

Eric:
You've mentioned elk like once or twice, I think in the last few years.

Katie:
Yeah, just a couple times. So we want to make sure, we're gonna get that word out again 'cause it's the 100th anniversary of elk in 2018. So what a year to get up and view the herd. So we're gonna close out with that segment. September podcast, here we come. Right after this.

Announcer:
Is it time to renew the license plate on your car or truck? When that moment arrives, show your support for Michigan elk and conservation by getting the Wildlife Habitat plate at the secretary of state. 2018 marks the 100th year since the reintroduction of wild elk to the state of Michigan. While the elk have been here for a century, this plate is only available for a limited time. So don't miss out. Visit mi.gov/elk and click on the license plate for more information. 

Katie:
Welcome back to the 'Around the State' segment. Here we're gonna touch all the corners of the state and let you know what wildlife division staff are up to. So getting started in the upper peninsula, or the U.P.

Katie:
So winter, it's on their mind. Even in the heat of the summer. Going into the fall, we're still thinking about winter. That's because habitat is essential for deer survival, and now is when we're doing that work. So both during the winter and even during the spring break-up when everything's starting to melt, deer still need to have food really close. 

Katie:
They can't travel far and this is where we come into play because it doesn't happen naturally. No. Staff have to plan for it. The work is intentional. They need to think like a deer as they come out; where is the food? We're planting rye and clover. We're doing some controlled burns, and even mechanical or physical removal.

Katie:
In those food sources for wildlife, again, we're always thinking about what they need, and we have something called Beach Bark Disease that's making its way across the upper peninsula. What that means is less Beach knots. That's a food source for deer. So we gotta think about what we can replace that with and we gotta think about it now.

Katie:
So what they're doing is they're planting four-footer taller Red Oak Saplings because Red Oak kick off acorns and that's gonna be another hard mast for deer to find. 

Katie:
Something else U.P. staff are working on is a Sharp-tailed Grouse season, that's getting ready October 10th. What this means is from the 10th through the 31st, there's this one area of the state where we're gonna have hunters targeting Sharp-tailed Grouse. It's the very east end of the U.P. We use HAP lands actually, the Hunter Access Program. Those are the lands that the Sharp-tails are on, so we're focusing the effort there. You can visit mi.gov/hap and you can find all those HAP lands in the east U.P.

Katie:
Now in addition to those Sharp-tailed Grouse we also have on September 15th, the grouse season starting up. We have GEMS, or Grouse Enhanced Management sites across the state. So the U.P. has the majority of those locations. We even have a new one coming up this fall in the Ottawa National Forest, called [Norwich 00:05:49], so make sure you visit mi.gov/gems to see those locations across the U.P., and in the lower peninsula. 

Katie:
So, Eric, that's what the staff are up to in the upper peninsula, what's happening down below the bridge?

Eric:
So staff in southern Michigan have actually both in the southeast and the southwest they've been doing a lot of this same work, or similar work. For example, everybody's getting ready for Waterfowl season right now. It's right around the corner, so staff are preparing Michigan's Wetland Wonders for the upcoming hunting seasons. Planting crops like corn and buckwheat and various small grains, and those are growing, and that's going to provide food for the Waterfowl as well as cover for hunters during this coming season.

Eric:
Surprisingly enough, I mean, it's been pretty dry throughout most of the state. I know in the southern part of the state it's been dry. Has it been dry for you in the northern lower also?

Katie:
Yeah, the ferns seem to be really turning brown. You're walking through the woods. Just this weekend I was noticing how crunchy everything is. It's dusty out.

Eric:
Yeah. I think I've mowed my lawn maybe three times this summer, possibly? Its been super dry, but even with as dry as it's been, the growing season has actually been all right, at least as far as height goes. So hunters should have some good cover come this fall, even despite the dry conditions that we've had.

Eric:
Pretty soon staff in the south are gonna be flooding the cornfields and grainfields in late September and early October, and that flooding is gonna provide great resting and feeding habitat for the Waterfowl that are migrating through the area.

Eric:
So, hunters are gonna be able to check refuge counts, condition reports, know what birds are in what areas by visiting mi.gov/wetlandwonders. In addition to getting revved up for Waterfowl season, there has been a ton of preparation for the upcoming deer season, and for CWD surveillance in particular.

Eric:
As most of our listeners know, CWD has been detected in southern Michigan counties, mainly in the southwest region but also in Jackson County which is part of the southeast region. Now, staff in the southern part of the state are gearing up for a busy season of CWD surveillance. Right now, hiring is taking place to make sure we've got plenty of people out there to staff Deer Check Stations.

Eric:
We've got some seasonal staffers will be picking up roadkill deer for testing. That's going to help us determine the extent of CWD in the state. If there are cases outside of the areas where we know CWD currently exists. We encourage hunters to have their deer checked, and you can visit mi.gov/deercheck for a list of Check Stations and head-drop boxes that are available for this upcoming deer season. 

Eric:
Deer Check Stations are a really great place to connect with a DNR wildlife division staff person, wouldn't you agree, Katie?

Katie:
Yeah, there's a lot of people who come to Deer Check Stations, the same one every year. It's on their drive home and so it's their time to ask us that latest question they heard or a myth that they want to bust that they're hearing at Deer Camp right now. 

Katie:
So it's an awesome time to really get face-to-face with hunters and good relationship building, just because we see them from year to year. It's a good time. 

Eric:
If you don't want to wait until deer season, or that time to go visit a Deer Check Station, staff in the southeast are also going to be available at a few events this fall to answer questions and visit with hunters and other members of the public. One place they'll be is the Woods and Water Outdoor Show in Imlay City, September 7th through the 9th.

Eric:
Another is the Pointe Mouillee Waterfowl Festival which runs September 15th and 16th, so come on out and see us. Katie, what do you have going on in the northern lower region?

Katie:
So, 'Knuckles North', that's kind of how I like to describe the northern lower. We all can raise up our hand and give you the lower peninsula, right?

Katie:
So that's our northern lower peninsula region. Something that's really cool that just happened was we have a water trail system dedication. Beaver Island, out in Lake Michigan, is the latest location to get onboard in the water trail system. It's official, there's now 42 miles of paddling around Beaver Island, which is the largest island in Lake Michigan.

Katie:
You might ask yourself, "Well what does this have to do with the DNR, or wildlife division?" Well most of Beaver Island is actually public land, so we have staff that spend significant time on the island working with the community, making sure there's access and just great opportunities to see what's out there and to use the resource.

Katie:
So, being part of the water trail system out in Beaver Island is pretty cool. They've got maps with amenities for you to help plan your trip. So if you're into that, if you love paddling, check it out. It's just another opportunity out there.

Katie:
Now we have to mention elk, right? It is September. September 8th, we're having a gathering in downtown Gaylord at The Pavilion. It's conservation leaders of today talking about what happened in the past and what's happening in the future for elk because remember 2018 is that 100 year anniversary of Michigan. See, I got elk in again in this podcast, Eric.

Eric:
You did. You're like cramming elk in everywhere. Anywhere that you can smash an elk into this podcast, you're doing it.

Katie:
I'm gonna do it. That's my goal. Elk. Elk across the podcast.

Katie:
So, we have the event on September 8th in Gaylord. Make sure to come and check it out. 5:00 PM, we'll get started; it's gonna be a fun time. The other way I'm gonna make sure to mention elk here is of course the first elk hunting season is actually underway.

Katie:
We have 100 lucky Michigan hunters that will have 12 days to hunt elk in Michigan. So we kick off the elk season with Elk Orientation. This is where every lucky hunter gets to come and learn about elk management, how to harvest an elk, and elk regulations because you know most people have never hunted an elk before unless they traveled out of state. This is their first time. So it's a lot different. We want to make sure folks are educated; they know what to do. So everyone comes to this elk orientation. We have staff available to help answer any questions they have.

Katie:
Don't forget, only Michigan residents can hunt elk. So staff are working elk check. Every elk that is harvested has to be brought in to the Elk Check Station.

Katie:
This time of year, because it's so hot out, we actually go to them. We want to make this harvest as successful as possible and part of that is getting that elk meat cool as quick as they can because it's such a large animal. So our staff are out finding the hunters, finding that harvest location. We do a little disease surveillance of the carcass. We also remove a tooth to age the elk. So we're doing some work for Elk Check Station, and it takes all of our staff to be able to do that because we have 100 hunters that are gonna harvest a lot of elk.

Katie:
A new group of 100 hunters will be out in December, so it's really exciting stuff right now in the elk world.

Eric:
That sounds like everybody's pretty much busy all across the state. I think that about wraps it up.

Katie:
Coming up next, stick with us, we're gonna have our state wildlife vet Dr. Kelly Straka, and we're gonna talk about Chronic Wasting Disease, and several other diseases we see here in Michigan.

Announcer:
The elk and bear draw has come and gone but you can still enter the Pure Michigan Hunt and have a shot at both elk and bear along with spring and fall turkey, antler-less deer and first pick at a Manage Waterfowl area. If you're one of the three lucky winners, not only do you get all those licenses, but you'll also receive a hunting prize package valued at over $4,000. Get a $5 application or two, anywhere hunting licenses are sold, or online at mi.gov/pmh.

Katie:
Let's dive into our next piece. We have a interview with Dr. Kelly Straka. She's our state wildlife veterinarian for the Michigan DNR. 

Katie:
Dr. Straka, thanks for being here with us!

Kelly:
Hey you guys, thanks for having me.

Eric:
Thanks for coming in. Appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule and giving our listeners a chance to know a little bit more about what it is you do. People probably hear wildlife veterinarian and they're wondering, you know, do people bring their deer in for their rabies shots? Are you doing check-ups? What is it that a wildlife veterinarian does for the state?

Eric:
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, about your job, and maybe even where you came from before you came to join us here in the great state of Michigan?

Kelly:
Sure, thanks. This is actually a really exciting opportunity for me. It's not often I get to do something like this where I know I can reach out to a lot of people. So this is really exciting. 

Kelly:
As you mentioned, I'm a wildlife veterinarian. That does not mean that I do currently something like wildlife rehabilitation. I get asked that a lot, you know, "Oh, so you treat rabbits, you treat deer, you treat foxes, and skunks?" 

Kelly:
No, I did. I did work in wildlife rehab for a few years and that's an incredible field, but my work now for the state of Michigan is much more focused on sort of what we look at for herd health, population health. What do we know about the wildlife populations in the state? What disease or health threats might they be facing? How can we sort of limit some of those risk factors that might make them more susceptible to disease and how do we really manage for good populations, good healthy populations across the state?

Kelly:
So it's an exciting field. There aren't very many people in this position. There's only about 20, maybe 20 to 30 state wildlife veterinarians that actually get to do the kind of work I do. So I'm honored to be here.

Eric:
So you've been with us since?

Kelly:
I've been here just going about two years.

Eric:
Awesome. Where were you before this?

Kelly:
Yeah, it's kind of one of those ... how long is this podcast? Because I've got quite the story. So I'm originally a Minnesota girl. I still consider myself a Minnesota girl although I'm rapidly, rapidly falling in love with Michigan. But I went to vet school in Minnesota. I did my undergrad in Minnesota. I also got a Master's degree in public health in Minnesota. Which is really similar to Michigan. Minnesota and Michigan, I think the upper Midwest in general have a lot in common. 

Kelly:
I started off as a wildlife biologist. I did some work with nonprofit groups; organizations like Ducks Unlimited. I also worked for the Minnesota DNR and I was with Fish and Wildlife Service for a little while.

Kelly:
Then I decided I wanted to go back to school and go back to vet school. I was actually living and working in Hawaii when I decided to go back to vet school, and I went specifically for wildlife health. So I never went in to vet school thinking I was gonna practice. So I'm really happy with that choice; I'm happy I made it.

Kelly:
So, I went to vet school back in 2008. After graduation I got hired on by the state of Missouri to be a wildlife health veterinarian there, and start their Wildlife Health Program. They'd never had a veterinarian before. So, technically came here from Missouri. Spent about four years there helping to build their Wildlife Health Program which was a great opportunity, and now I get to come here and work with a great team.

Katie:
Well I'm so glad Michigan got Dr. Straka. Thanks for coming.

Kelly:
Thanks Katie.

Eric:
So we have three wildlife diseases that are being talked about a lot right now. Chronic Wasting Disease is obviously probably one of the biggest ones that's at the forefront of most people's minds. We also have Bovine Tuberculosis, which is also talked about. Then, most recently West Nile Virus has kind of popped up, particularly pertaining to the Ruffed Grouse population.

Eric:
Could you maybe give us a quick rundown about the effects these diseases have on the animals that they infect? 

Kelly:
Yeah you actually gave me quite a laundry list there, and it's exciting for me because I'll be honest in that I don't do well with sort of routine, the same nine-to-five routine work over and over. My position is very fortunate I guess in that I get to deal with many different things. 

Kelly:
So when you start talking about those three diseases you named in particular, so, Chronic Wasting Disease, Bovine Tuberculosis, and West Nile Virus; they're very different. Not only because of the animals they infect and the effects they can have on those animals, but what causes them.

Kelly:
I'll give a couple of minutes to each. Try not bore anybody too much, but, again, this is my bread and butter so I talk about this stuff every day.

Kelly:
We'll start with Chronic Wasting Disease because I think it's on the forefront of many people's minds, and it's in the media a lot and in a lot of conversations. What we know about Chronic Wasting Disease is that it is a disease of the Cervidae family. It affects members of the Cervidae family. So those are deer. Deer, elk, moose, reindeer, those are the animals we worry about with Chronic Wasting Disease at this point. 

Kelly:
What causes this disease is actually something that is normal in their bodies. So it's caused by a protein that you and I have too, we all have these proteins called prions. But what happens with these specific prions is that with this disease they misfold when they're being sort of replicated in the body, right? We know that proteins are always being turned over, and there's a trigger, and we don't know what that trigger is, but these proteins misfold and when they do they don't behave like they should. 

Kelly:
It's been described in the literature as they "go rogue"; they turn into rogue proteins, and they can encounter other prion proteins and make them misfold. They stop functioning like normal, happy proteins.

Kelly:
One of the things we worry about is, okay, so this is affecting deer, and it's this protein thing. Well, what happens? What happens over time is once these proteins start to accumulate within the individual animals they result in neurologic signs. So you start to see animals that are staggering, that are stumbling, that maybe lose sense of their awareness. They become very uncoordinated, they drool excessively, and they start to lose weight. 

Kelly:
So that's one of the things that you worry about is that this disease is contagious between animals. To the best of our knowledge it is always fatal. So if an animal's infected with Chronic Wasting Disease it is going to die more rapidly then we would expect a normal healthy animal to have.

Kelly:
So we worry about it, there's a lot of research that has come out in the last few years that shows it's going to have population impacts on a herd level. So all of the sudden this isn't just a tragedy that happened to an individual animal, this can actually drive population declines. That's one of the big concerns we have.

Kelly:
That's Chronic Wasting Disease, I'm sure we'll talk a little more about that if we need to. I'm happy to talk about that at anytime, but let's switch gears a little bit to Bovine Tuberculosis because that's also an important disease to talk about when you start to talk about the health of Michigan's deer.

Kelly:
Bovine TB has been around ... our first detection was back in the '70's, but we didn't find another case until about 1994. So, we found a TB positive deer. Bovine TB is caused not by a protein like Chronic Wasting Disease, but it's caused by a bacteria. A really slow growing bacteria, and this bacteria can infect multiple different species. We know that Bovine TB can be zoonotic, and what I mean by that is it can affect humans. 

Kelly:
That has not been shown with Chronic Wasting Disease. Obviously there's a lot of work in that arena right now, but we know that TB can infect humans, and it has in the state of Michigan. It also can impact cattle. That is a serious issue especially for anyone who is trying to raise cattle up in an area where we have Bovine Tuberculosis in the deer. 

Kelly:
So this disease primarily affects the respiratory tract, so you start to see pneumonia's, a lot of issues breathing. Like I said we do have it in deer here in Michigan. We are the only state that does have Bovine Tuberculosis, what I call endemic. Which just means it exists, and it has existed for quite some time in our free-ranging Whitetail deer population. 

Kelly:
Finally, we're going to switch gears to West Nile. West Nile Virus is one of those nice diseases because the answer is in the name, right? It's caused by a virus. So, whereas TB's a bacteria, CWD is a protein, we have this virus. We know that West Nile Virus can affect over 250 species of primarily birds, but also some mammals. 

Kelly:
It is also considered to be a zoonotic disease in that humans can contract West Nile Virus. Now most human infections with this virus are going to be asymptomatic, so you might not even know that you're positive for West Nile. But about one in five people can suffer sort of a fever illness, or a flu-like illness, and it can progress to serious complications leading to meningitis, or inflammation of the lining around the brain, and also inflammation in the spinal cord. So it can progress to a very serious condition in humans, especially elderly or immunocompromised people. 

Kelly:
West Nile is kind of hitting the headlines lately because of potential concerns it might be having on our Ruffed Grouse population. In Michigan last year we had 12 cases of West Nile in Ruffed Grouse, and that was a landmark for us. We only had one previous case diagnosed back I think in 2002. So, you couple with this finding of West Nile Virus in grouse populations with some research that came out of Pennsylvania that suggested if animals are experimentally infected, if grouse are experimentally infected, it can kill them. 

Kelly:
So it's one of those concerns, we don't know if West Nile Virus is having a population level impact on the grouse, but we certainly want to start doing some surveillance this fall. We're asking hunters for their help to try to get some samples and see if we can get a better handle on what's going on with that virus. 

Kelly:
So hopefully that wasn't too lengthy for you and I didn't lose too many listeners.

Eric:
So it's almost like our hunters can play field scientists for a little bit this year then?

Kelly:
Which is such a cool opportunity, right? That's one of the things that I really like about this is in Michigan, we're so unique in that we have this wonderful Wildlife Disease Laboratory, and quite honestly it's unlike any other place in the country. I'm so honored to work at this lab, and I work with a great team of scientists, and epidemiologists, and pathologists, and people that are so, so educated and so intelligent and brilliant in the field of wildlife health. 

Kelly:
So, yeah, what I like to do is be able to have these opportunities where hunters, and landowners, and the public can get involved and help us with some of our health monitoring in the state.

Eric:
That's great. A disease, kind of shifting from those, the three that I just kind of threw at you, they're looking at a different disease that can affect bats, and likewise humans, that come into contact with bats potentially, is rabies. I know personally I've seen posts on social media lately about people who have woken up to bats in their house. In those situations, should those people be concerned? How would they handle a situation like that? What should they do with the bat? What would you recommend in those types of situations? Or maybe some things that people should be aware of.

Kelly:
Yeah, thanks for bringing up rabies, actually it's really timely. So this time of year, August, September, we start to see ... we can see a very active month for rabies, and that's because a lot of those pups are starting to leave their roost, they're starting to become more active, people can find bats in their houses. Rabies is, as I mentioned before with West Nile and Bovine TB, rabies is a zoonotic disease. So we know it can infect people, and I'm hoping all of our listeners are aware of that, but this is a really serious one. This will be fatal to humans if infected, so when we look at kind of what our situation is to date in 2018, we've had 58 rabies-positive animals detected so far. 56 of those have been bats. The other two were skunks. So bats are our most common factor we find positive with rabies.

Kelly:
So when you have a situation, if you wake up and your home and there's a bat in your room and you don't know if you've been bitten, because I don't know if people realize it, but you don't always know if you've been bitten by a bat. It doesn't always hurt especially if you're bitten in your sleep. The best recommendation is gonna be to get yourself to a safe area, get away from the bat if at all possible, and contact your local health department and ask for advising guidance. 

Kelly:
There's also a really good website: Michigan's emerging disease website has specific information on who you should contact and how you should contact, but especially if you have a child in the room or if you walk into your children's room and there is a bat present. Those are absolutely those kind of situations where we're gonna want to get that bat tested for rabies, and just make sure there's no exposure.

Kelly:
The same would be true for if you're around any elderly individuals, or anyone that can't communicate if anything had happened. You just want to make sure that nobody was exposed to that bat. People need to realize that in order to test a bat for rabies it does have to be euthanized, or it does have to be killed. But they do not have to do that. So if they can safely trap the bat without actually coming in contact with it, that's gonna be the recommendation, and you can transport that to your health department, and they'll take care of the rest for the testing.

Kelly:
I just think it's just really important for people to be aware of that, and to be cognizant that, yeah, rabies is a significant health risk. So I always try-- as a veterinarian its been ingrained-- try to recommend to people, remember to vaccinate your pets, and remember just to be smart around wild animals. Don't bring wild animals into your home. 

Eric:
Great, great. So, basically, talk to your local health department, and then also the emerging diseases website. I believe there's a direct link people can get to michigan.gov/rabies, should get people to that location of the emerging diseases website. So great, thank you very much for that information.

Kelly:
Of course.

Eric:
So if I could shift gears just a little bit. There's something I've seen repeated a number of times on social media, and I wanted to kind of get your take on it. So people have said ... they're basically accusing the Michigan DNR with some of these new CWD regulations that have come out, is taking the same failed approach, they say, that other states have taken. Would you say that that is an accurate assessment that we're doing things just like other states are, or that that approach is somehow flawed in some way? Could you maybe elaborate on that a little bit, and what your thoughts might be?

Kelly:
I've seen those, I'll go ahead and call them criticisms. I've seen them, I've heard them, I've had some of those addressed my way, too. How I feel about that, I disagree with that for several reasons. I think one of the things is that, keep in mind, this disease is unlike anything else we've dealt with in free-ranging wildlife. I think where other states may have gone wrong is that they try to do the right thing, or recommend the right thing from a disease management approach, but either they don't have the support, the stakeholders, or they're not effectively communicating why they're doing what they're doing. 

Kelly:
So, I don't criticize other states for what they've done. I think everybody operates with the best available science they have at the time. I think Michigan has taken a very different approach; a much more thoughtful, much more insightful approach in trying to be as transparent as possible with why some recommendations are coming out; why we would look at doing things that maybe other states have tried. Why we think we would have a different result, and we're also, I think, significantly more open with exploring things that other people haven't tried.

Kelly:
Now, I think where people get concerned is that they're not seeing immediate changes. And that's intentional because something like this is going to take time. CWD is a significant threat to both deer and deer hunting. So you really have to be careful with how you're gonna approach it. It doesn't spread like wildfire. I keep saying that. 

Kelly:
We have time to be thoughtful with our approach, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything; it doesn't mean we should sit back. It means we have to be very thoughtful and intentional with what we're going to do with management, and this is a marathon. This is longer than a marathon. This is one of those crazy, 200 mile ultra marathon endurance events that a crazy small number of people run. 

Kelly:
But this is something Michigan's in for the long run and I think that the DNR in particular, has done a really good job of understanding that, and embracing the fact that this is going to be a commitment we have to look for years to come. So to be impulsive, and to be reactive to the situation is not going to be useful. I think that Michigan has done a really good job of being intentional with their actions.

Eric:
Looking back to the Chronic Wasting Disease Symposium that we had back in October, and I know some of the things that Chad Stewart had shown in that presentation ... That's available on the YouTube channel, by the way, for anybody who wants to go back and take a look at that presentation. 

Eric:
If I remember correctly in his slideshow that he had, he kind of did a compare and contrast between the state of Illinois and the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin had started off very aggressively, but then kind of eased up on things a little bit, whereas Illinois continued to maintain a very aggressive approach to management with the help of hunters, harvesting as many deer as possible within those CWD areas. As a result, you kind of saw CWD contained to a large extent in Illinois. Whereas in Wisconsin, once they had kind of eased up on things, that's when you saw it spread to other areas of the state.

Eric:
Would you say that's ... am I getting that right, am I remembering that correctly from his presentation?

Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, you absolutely are. I think I can picture the graph that you're talking about. You're right, it's absolutely in that presentation. If anybody hasn't seen that, or any of those talks from the CWD Symposium that we hosted last October, they're very useful. They were presented by a variety of experts, honestly. 

Kelly:
So we had a two-day symposium. The first day was very heavy on the science of CWD; the epidemiology which is just a fancy word for kind of the study of the disease. So the epidemiology of CWD, that was day one. Then day two was management, where we actually invited folks from other states to come in. So if you haven't, if any of the listeners have not seen any of those videos, please, as Eric mentioned, go to the YouTube site and watch them. They're very informative.

Katie:
Talking about time and being really intentional with your approach. So, most folks are gonna notice that maybe deer regulations are a little bit later than usual for 2018, for this fall. So, we've got you here, we can pick your brain. So tell us kind of what happened that was different this year, and why were those regs so late?

Kelly:
Yeah, I can tell you, very firsthand that it was not because we were sitting back reading the paper and drinking coffee. I can tell you that this has been a really interesting process. It's been a lot of work, and there's been a lot of people involved. So, let me talk a little bit about that timeline because I think you're right, it wasn't until August 9th at the commission meeting that CWD regulations were decided. 

Kelly:
When we go back to October 2017, we hosted the symposium. Out of that CWD research and management symposium came a CWD working group, and what that was is it was a group of folks that were tasked ... I co-chaired that committee along with our state veterinarian Dr. James Averill. We co-chaired this committee to come up with recommendations for the Natural Resources Commission to consider. 

Kelly:
We presented those in January. From January to June, one of the largest things that came out of that recommendations package was a need to really involve stakeholders. They need to be very transparent, they need to be very open, and open to new ideas. That's what I alluded to earlier when I was saying this is a really intentional thing. 

Kelly:
So, we did, we embarked on a massive stakeholder engagement campaign. It constituted a lot of outreach efforts from folks like you guys, so thanks for that, as well as CWD focus groups, and public meetings. There were a number of different efforts that were made to really engage stakeholders across the state of Michigan. Not necessarily our normal, historical, big deer hunting groups, either I mean, it was varied from taxidermists and meat processors to wildlife rehabilitation folks, to even the Farm Bureau was involved in this, too. Privately owned Cervidae in the industry, too. 

Kelly:
So we really reached out to all those groups. From January to June we got a lot of input. We engaged a lot of folks to see what are their thoughts? What do they think? What should be your goal for CWD management in Michigan? Out of that came recommendations to the Natural Resources Commission in June. Understandably, there was a lot of information that we shared. The commission did a good job of asking for more follow-up. They wanted more information, they wanted more background, they wanted to make sure they were doing their due diligence. 

Kelly:
So, from June to August they literally took those two months to look at every recommendation that came out. Several amendments were offered. The DNR can take those amendments and look and see, okay, how does this fit into our proposed management structure? How does it fit into our surveillance plan? All of that has been actively happening, and it all led up to the culmination of the August 9th Natural Resources Commission meeting where those regulations were decided. So, it all happened in a relatively short timeline after everything was vetted.

Katie:
Yeah, we definitely hit the ground running August 9th. One of those big changes that came out was the baiting and feeding ban. Which, parts of the state are gonna see this year; others are gonna see in 2019. So can you talk a little bit about why? Why was baiting and feeding banned, and kind of walk us through that.

Kelly:
Yeah, baiting and feeding of wildlife and Cervidaes in particular is it's an extremely sensitive issue, and I'm very aware of that, and Michigan has a long history of looking at the effects that baiting and feeding may have on deer populations, especially in light of diseases like we talked about earlier with Bovine Tuberculosis.

Kelly:
So, one of the biggest concerns we have with artificial baiting and feeding of deer is that it does congregate deer to come in contact with each other. Obviously, as I talked about earlier with CWD, CWD is a contagious disease. So, if you're drawing these animals, artificially drawing them to share the same point of a food source, that's going to be an additive risk.

Kelly:
So, one of the arguments I hear is, well, you know, these animals contact each other all the time in nature, what are you gonna do, make sure they can't come in contact with each other? 

Kelly:
Well, no, but risk is additive. So, if there is something that we are doing that could be making things worse, we really need to take a serious look at that, and can we minimize that risk? How can we remove additional additive sources of disease transmission. 

Kelly:
Keep in mind as something I talked about earlier when I said CWD is contagious between animals, these proteins that are infectious, right, that make these animals sick, they can be shed. They're shed in heavy amounts in saliva. They're shed also in feces, and in smaller quantities they're shed in urine. 

Kelly:
So, not only are these animals that are feeding on the same bait pile, potentially sharing saliva and encountering each other's saliva, those. You're also having these animals standing around each other urinating, defecating, for longer periods of time than we've normally seen.

Kelly:
We also have some literature out of Michigan that has shown that the increase in harvest over bait piles has not been a noticeable increase; it's not a significant increase. So one of the arguments is people won't harvest deer if there's not baiting allowed. Well, our data doesn't support that. They're are a number of studies that have been looked at that are looking at the risks of increasing these transmissions around things like artificial bait sites. So that's definitely one of the things the commission took into effect, or took into consideration when they looked at that recommendation.

Katie:
So this baiting and feeding ban here in Michigan, we're not alone. There are other states that have these same regulations in place, correct?

Kelly:
Yes, absolutely, and so, in fact, we've always sort of said when we had Chronic Wasting Disease, we first detected it in 2015, and we immediately enacted a feeding and baiting ban in that immediate area, right? So in our disease zone, and several other states have done the same thing. Again, it's a well recognized source of disease transmission, right? It's a source of risk, and so I would say the response is to ban something like that to, again, try to remove some of that extra risk of transmission.

Katie:
Our very first deer seasons of 2018 are right ahead of us. What would you say is the big takeaway for this year's deer hunting class? What are their changes that they need to make sure they're on top of for this fall?

Kelly:
Yeah, the big takeaway this year for hunters is, please keep hunting. Get out there, enjoy it. I hunt, I teach my children to hunt. I think that hunting in Michigan is a tradition and a heritage that we need to pass on to future generations. 

Kelly:
But at the same point in time, there needs to be a little bit of a culture shift among us hunters. In that our actions matter. So if you aren't familiar with CWD there is a lot of information on our website, mi.gov/cwd, and you can learn more about the disease and what you can do as a hunter to minimize the risk in making this disease worse.

Kelly:
One of the things that comes to mind is proper carcass disposal, and carcass movement. So we do have carcass movement regulations that you can learn about, but also keep in mind that just be smart when you're out there. When you're driving around with a carcass in the back of your truck, please don't push it off the tailgate into the back 40. You know, we're asking people to be mindful of where they're putting carcasses on the landscape, because those can be potentially infectious to other animals. They can be scattered around by scavengers as well. 

Kelly:
So, when you get out there do your best to educate yourself on not only the regulations but the recommendations for hunters to help us in the fight against CWD.

Katie:
Anyone in the state, they can get their deer head checked, correct? They can go to any one of our close to 100 Deer Check Station across the state.

Kelly:
Absolutely. So we will test deer from anywhere across the state, obviously we have a strong need to better understand this disease where we know it exists. We want to know exactly how much is there and how widespread it is, but like Katie said we will test deer from anywhere in the state. 

Katie:
We have a great interactive map set up at mi.gov/deercheck. Make sure to check that out.

Eric:
Well Kelly, thank you again so much for coming in today and for sharing really some excellent information on a variety of wildlife diseases. It's greatly appreciated. 

Kelly:
Absolutely guys, thanks for having me.

Announcer:
Deer hunters, are you ready to buy your regular deer license for this fall so you can harvest an antlered buck? Don't forget that if you want the chance to harvest two-antler deer, you're going to need to buy that combination license up-front. That will give you one regular tag and one restricted tag to use. If you only buy the single deer license, you won't be able to buy that restricted tag later on.

Announcer:
So if you want more buck for your bang, be sure to pick up the combination license. Visit mi.gov/deer for more information.

Kelly:
All right, fasten those seat belts we're headed down to get the mailbag. We're gonna unzip it, and at the bottom ... we're gonna start from the bottom, Eric. You always start from the top of the mailbag, I want to dig down first.

Kelly:
I got an e-mail the other day from Jason, and he just was pulling into work at an unnamed store this morning in Traverse City, and he saw a deer way out in the woods. The cool thing about today is he got a picture of it. I love the fact that everyone's got a smartphone out there or a trail camera, so, so many of our e-mails now have pictures attached.

Kelly:
I was able to open up the picture and it was a large spot on the deer that he was concerned about. What it was, was a Deer Fibroma. It's a mass that deer can get. It's almost like a tumor or a wart, but it's outward, so you can see it. Usually you can see it pretty good from any type of distance, or trail camera. So the concern is, "What's wrong with this deer!" 

Kelly:
Usually they're in the eye, neck, or face region, and the thing to take away is this is just with the skin; it's not affecting the general health of the deer, especially come deer season, if someone harvests the deer, and they find a fibroma or this hang-y nodule on the deer. It's not effecting its health, you can still consume the deer.

Kelly:
It's relatively common, we do get a lot of pictures sent to use nowadays that have Deer fibromas. The big thing is it's not affecting that general health. It is something that we see.

Eric:
Yeah I know some of the pictures I've seen where people have sent in Deer fibromas, a lot of times you'll see them, they'll be clustered together in a big clump, and so those usually tend to be the cases where people are a little bit more alarmed because it's not just this one spot, but they see a whole collection of fibromas together in a big cluster on a deer.

Kelly:
Yeah, the biggest thing is it's definitely unsightly for us to see, but the health of the deer, it's not affecting their health; they're not gonna die from it. It's still consumable if you are to harvest a deer like that. 

Kelly:
All right, another e-mail I just received was from Ashley, and she was from the [Sue 00:41:29] up in the upper peninsula, and she has a picture of a doe on her trail camera. Pictures are worth a thousand words when you're trying to explain something to someone, and just having that photo helps so much. 

Kelly:
So she sent a picture of a doe that's missing a lot of hair on her back and she asked some people and she was concerned it could be mange. So this is a great question because this is the time of year where deer are in that in-between period where they're starting to get their winter coat. 

Kelly:
It's looking a little raggedy, you know, hair is missing, hair is growing in; it's just not that pretty coat that we're used to seeing. Years ago you didn't have a trail camera out there to get you those up-close pictures of deer out of season. So this is something that maybe people never had saw before, is the deer getting its winter fur, or pelage.

Kelly:
So it's possible that when you do see that fluctuation in their coat, that it could be some type of dermatitis. But fortunately because you're watching that trail camera, there's a good chance you're gonna get to see that doe again. So just keeping an eye on that deer on your trail camera, you should be able to see her throughout the next few weeks to months, grow in that full coat and that raggedy-ness just disappears. 

Kelly:
But going right to mange is a pretty common thought that many people have anytime you have that hair, or skin issue, but just knowing so many animals have different coats. They got to get rid of that heavy winter coat in the spring, and then they gotta start preparing for winter. That just doesn't happen overnight. They have to grow in that hair or that fur over time. 

Eric:
It's funny that you should mention mange because actually, fairly recently, Steve wrote and Steven says, "DNR, while I'm not sure if this is anything you track or otherwise deal with, I wanted to bring it to your attention. I spotted a squirrel with mange in my yard today. I had to use my binoculars to confirm it, that huge bare spots; pink skin on both sides of its body, and a large bare stripe down its back. I've never seen mange in a squirrel before; just dog-like breeds, coyotes, things like that. Other than the very apparent mange, the animal seemed in good health. It moved easily and showed no weakness. My major concern is if the mange is contagious to other squirrels? Any information or guidance would be helpful. Thank you, Steven." 

Eric:
So, you know, Steve saw something that he didn't typically see, that he'd never seen before which was a squirrel with mange. So as Katie had mentioned, mange is a skin disease of mammals and it's caused by a mite. There are different types of mange and squirrels tend to contract what is called Notoedric Mange. Now Notoedric mites are not transmissible to humans, canines, or feline pets. So your dog's not gonna get it, your cat shouldn't get it; it is transmissible to other squirrels, and hair-loss is the key indicator of the disease. 

Eric:
One of the things the DNR recommends doing if you have squirrels with mange in your area, particularly if they're congregating together, is to remove any food sources. Things like bird feeders or if you're putting out seed. Try to not put the things out that are gonna cause those squirrels to congregate together and have physical contact with one another. 

Eric:
What that will do is that will actually help reduce the spread of the disease, and it's not necessarily fatal to the squirrels, however, it could lead to the death of a squirrel especially in winter time. So, they could die of exposure just like you if you go out in the winter without a coat on. If a squirrel doesn't have its coat then it could freeze and succumb to the cold from the loss of the hair. Now we always appreciate reports of any diseased wildlife, and you can provide detailed sightings and information via our reporting form, which is available at michigan.gov/eyesinthefield.

Kelly:
Coming up next, we have our piece about elk viewing for this fall which is so relevant for September and October.

Announcer:
Check yes for the recreation passport when you renew your license plate at the Michigan Secretary of State. The recreation passport is just $11 when purchased with your license plate registration renewal, and is your key to visiting more than 100 state parks, accessing staffed public boat launches, parking for rustic forest campgrounds, and hundreds of miles of trails, attending free family outdoor events and classes, and protecting our natural resources for the next generation. Visit michigan.gov/recreationpassport for more information.

Katie:
Hey Eric, did you know that September and October are the best times to view elk in Michigan?

Eric:
Katie, are you talking about elk again?

Katie:
Oh, guilty. Yep. Totally going down that elk road again. Well, since you're here, since you brought us here, elk ... or I mean, Eric, let's go with it, right? 

Katie:
September and October are a great time to view elk. It's their breeding season, and we all know animals act a little bit different when it's breeding season: they're moving around, they're in places that they might not normally be, and fortunately for us, that's a good time for us to see them and hear them. 

Katie:
So elk can give off-- both males and females-- loud whistles and bugles for how they communicate to each other. You can be lucky enough to actually go up into northeast Michigan, the lower peninsula, and hear elk this time of year. Now maybe you might get to see them too which is a pretty lucky occurrence in Michigan. We have just over 1,200 elk, but the chance of really getting to see wildlife can be rare. That's kind of what makes it so exciting. 

Katie:
They gather in these open grassy areas and this is a good viewing point for us. We actually maintain these locations, meaning that we plant stuff there, we cut it. So our goal is to provide a food source and a place for them to gather. Then, we put them on maps so that people can actually have this little treasure hunt. You can go and get a viewing brochure, download it, save it to your phone, take a picture of it, and take you and your family out and find these locations that elk are known to be.

Katie:
Now the best time to view elk is at dawn and dusk, so you might have to drag the family out early, or keep them up late. Pack a lunch in the car or something, but that's the best time animals are out moving, is that early and really late time of the day. Just like viewing any other animal, keep a distance. Don't try to approach the elk or anything, but you can get great spotting scopes. You can hear them from a distance. Even though you are not up close and personal, to be able to see a huge majestic elk, hundreds of pounds, the size of a horse. I mean, that would be so cool for you and your family.

Eric:
So what you're saying Katie is it's probably a good idea if I go to michigan.gov/elk, and I download my elk viewing brochure. I head up north with the family. Maybe we leave early that day, spend a little bit of time in some of those nice little up north communities. Maybe get some lunch, get some dinner, and then head out as it's getting later toward the evening to get a good shot at seeing some of those elk with the family?

Katie:
Yeah, that's a great idea. Think of those small towns like Wolverine, and Atlanta, Vanderbilt. Go right up there in the heart of the Pigeon River Country, and there are openings that you can drive to, but we also have openings that you have to hike in. So if your kind of looking for more of that back country remote experience, where you can really get in there quiet and wait for dusk to settle in. See if you can hear them, see if you can spot them. I mean, what an experience that would be. 

Katie:
Don't forget, coming up on September 8th, in Gaylord, we have a gathering of conservation leaders, and everyone that just loves elk. We're gonna get started at 5:00 PM at the downtown Gaylord Pavilion, and we're gonna have Gourmet Gone-Wild food. We're gonna have leaders from the conservation community, and just a little celebration. A little shindig, all about the Elk 100th.

Eric:
Well, that wraps things up for this month. Thank you all for joining us today.

Katie:
Don't forget to subscribe to the Wild Talk Podcast. We'll see you next month!

Announcer:
This has been the Wild Talk Podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the wildlife division at 517-284-9453, or dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.