Invasives, Invasives, Invasives

In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, Eric and guest host Katie Grzesiak talk invasive species, and Ryan Wheeler pops in for a bit to talk about nutria, armadillo and the invasive species watch list. 

Episode Hosts: Katie Grzesiak and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

• All things habitat
  • Stiltgrass
  • Michigan.gov/EGLE
  • Michigan.gov/MDARD
  • Cooperative Invasive Species Management Areas (CISMA)
  • Midwest Invasive Species Network (MISIN)
• All things feathers
  • Eastern Towhee
• All things fur
  • Michigan Invasive Species Watchlist
  • Nutria

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Transcript

Speaker 1
You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan's WildTalk podcast. Welcome to the WildTalk Podcast, where representatives from the DNR Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers and fur. With insights, interviews and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

Katie
Hello everyone, and welcome to the WildTalk Podcast. I am your guest host, Katie Grzesiak, and keeping me in line today is Rachel's illustrious co-host, Eric Hilliard.

Eric
Katie, thank you so much for filling in for Rachel. She's coming back next month.

Katie
I know I'm really excited to have her back, but I'm here in the meantime.

Eric
You are, and I'm excited to have you here. Until she returns. You've got some interesting topics lined up for us today, don't you?

Katie
I do. It is an invasive species takeover. Last week we had disease.

Eric
Is it an invasive species invasion?

Katie
It's. Well, it might be. We'll have to see how we can prevent them.

Eric
We should be excited for the topic, but not excited for the actual invasive species, right?

Katie
The invasive species are very interesting and exciting. It's really okay to be excited about them, but we have to manage them.

Eric
Okay. All right. Well, you know, I look forward to hearing more and more about this. And really so, obviously you're bringing invasive species to the table today. You must have a background in invasive species. So maybe you want to just fill our listeners in on who you are and what you do.

Katie
Absolutely. So I am the terrestrial invasive species coordinator.

Eric
Like not an extraterrestrial invasive?

Katie
Not extraterrestrial, and also more importantly, not aquatic. So I only dip my toes into the edge of the water. Everything else I do is on dry land, and I am focused on invasive species as a whole on the terrestrial side of things. But my specialty is in invasive plants.

Eric
Okay. Yeah. And we've had you on the show in the past, but this is your first time in the host chair, so.

Katie
It's true. I hope Rachel doesn't regret it.

Eric
I don't think Rachel will regret it. She did an excellent job selecting a series of guest hosts, and I have yet to be disappointed by anybody who has said sat in that chair. And I'm sure it will be the same for you.

Katie
It's true. I've been listening. Folks have done a really good job.

Eric
So what do we have lined up for this month's episode?

Katie
So this month we'll chat about how DNR staff are working to keep our habitats healthy with new invasive species on the horizon. We'll also spotlight one of my very favorite birds, probably my very, very favorite bird, the Eastern towhee. And we will also dig into some of the invasive mammals that we're concerned about in Michigan. But before we dive into all of that, let's have a word from our warblers.

Speaker
Hey, Michigan drivers, a little bird told me your license plate can do more than just tag your car. The wildlife habitat plate featuring the iconic Kirtland's warbler, helps protect Michigan's non-game fish and wildlife through the Non Game Fish and Wildlife Trust Fund. But hurry, this plate is changing soon. Want to keep the warbler flying? You can even get one as a collector's item. No car required. Support Michigan's wildlife and get your plate before this bird flies away. Visit Michigan.gov/SOS.

*Transition music

Katie
All right I'm going to start a little bit zoomed out. But stay with me. I promise to get down and talk about stilt grass our watch list species. But for starters...

Eric
Stilt grass?

Katie
Yeah we're not going to talk about that first yet.

Eric
You're not going to talk about it first.

Katie
No I've got to give you the background

Eric
Okay

Katie
I promise bear with me.

Eric
I'm already picturing insects wearing stilt grass like stilts.

Katie
Hold that in your mind. But first we're going to think about food webs.

Eric
Food webs?

Katie
Yeah, absolutely.

Eric
Okay.

Katie
So a food web, right. That's kind of the basis of the ecosystem. That's all of the checks and balances for all of the plants and the insects and the birds and the mammals, and all of those things are tied into each other. And one of the most famous instances of those really, really close relationships that we have between native insects and plants in particular, as the base of the food web is monarchs and milkweed. Right. Everybody knows that monarch butterflies and their little caterpillars must have milkweed. There's nothing else that they can eat, right? And so monarchs help keep milkweed in check, right. And vice versa. If there's not enough milkweed, we run out of monarchs. Right?

Eric
Yeah.

Katie
And so that's like, okay, everybody knows that. And the food web is made up of millions of those kinds of connections of insects that need a specific plant, or maybe can only reproduce on some sort of plant in order to live. And that's all what makes our food web. And then again, those insects and the plants themselves also feed the mammals and the birds and everything else that is in the ecosystem. Right? So that's that web that we're creating with, with our ecosystem. And so invasive species are something that disrupts that food web. They it's a two part definition. It's easy to think of lots of things as invasive. But technically speaking invasive species must be non-native and they must be harmful in some way, either to the environment, the economy or human health. And so a lot of times, most invasive species disrupt the food web. They can do other things too. They can change the soil pH, or they can harm our food systems or whatever. But a lot of times when we think about the ecosystem, we're thinking about a species that, again, is not from here and it grows, and then it doesn't support in particular those insects. So there's no monarchs that are going to be eating it because they don't have those really special relationships.

Eric
So disrupting that food web is a bit like me walking through a trail and then walking through a spider web that has been woven across the trail where I have disrupted that web.

Katie
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because now that web is, like, kind of missing, right? Because your head went through there, probably your face.

Eric
Yeah. And I probably have multiple spiders crawling on me.

Katie
Right. But so we're thinking about with this food web disruption, that harm that's there because of this species is there. And it's not necessarily, you know, this doesn't make this species evil or bad. And in its home range, it would have all of those really close connections with other insects or other animals that are helping to keep it in check. But here in its new home, it doesn't have those things that keep it in check and in because of that, it's doing harm in the ecosystem. So because of these like kind of bully in bully species, Michigan in particular has a really collaborative approach to how to handle these, because we have lots of folks in the government that work on invasive species, and it's a lot easier if we work together. So we in the DNR are playing a big role in this, but we also work really closely with our colleagues in MDARD the Department of Agriculture as well as EGLE.

Eric
EGLE, not eagle is in the eagles that fly but Environment, Great Lakes and Energy.

Katie
That's right. One of our other sister departments. So we all work really closely together on invasive species because they can affect so many different parts of our work. We also work with partners outside of the state of Michigan, in particular land manager organizations and cooperative invasive species management areas or CISMAs. Inside note everyone has a CISMA that's local to them, and we'll put a link in the show notes.

Eric
Tell me that the CISMAs have like a t-shirt made that says something like CISMA charisma or something to that effect.

Katie
That's an amazing idea and I want it to happen. All right. So there's a lot of really common invasive species folks might be familiar with Autumn olive or Garlic mustard or even Phragmites, Red-swamp crayfish. We've got lots of I'm a plant person, so I'm going to think of all plant examples. But we've got lots of them that are pretty widely distributed in this state right there. In a lot of places they're doing harm, and it's really important for folks to be managing these species when they're able. But they we're not going to remove all of them from the state. Right.

Eric
But I hear a name like I hear a name like Autumn olive. And I think, oh, I love the autumn and I love olives too. How can that be bad?

Katie
So, I mean, I don't want to dive in too deep on Autumn Olive, but it's actually a species that is able to really take over any areas that would otherwise be, again, important for other plants. And it's also able to change the soil by putting out chemicals into the soil that can stop other plants from growing.

Eric
So not great.

Katie
Not great. And it's berries aren't like super nutritious for birds. It's just, you know, just not that great. But we can eat them, you know, they're kind of tasty. But anyway, so we're not going to eradicate any of these species from the state, right? We're not going to be able to remove all of them because they're really, really widespread. But it is really important to be managing those species. You know, I manage them on my own home and especially in high quality natural areas. You know, it's really important to keep those species out. But when we're thinking about this big collaborative approach that the state is doing, we think about what species are here, where can we get the most bang for our buck?

Katie
Right. What species are here? Either not here yet or here in very small quantities that we could prioritize as our targets so that we can make a really big impact and maybe actually eradicate them, or at the very least, keep them from becoming like autumn olive or garlic mustard, where they're in so, so many places. And so we've identified some of those species that, again, are are a big threat but not widely distributed in the state, have a limited distribution, and those are the species that are on our watch list. The watch list is not regulatory, although some of the species are regulated, not all of them are. And so these are species that we've said, oh gosh, we really want people to be on the lookout for and we want to prioritize managing them.

Eric
So it's like the FBI's most wanted list for plans.

Katie
Absolutely, absolutely. And with a little bit more ecosystem in mind.

Eric
Oh, okay.

Katie
Yeah. And so the species that I want to talk to you about today is stilt grass. And so this is a species of grass, as you may have guessed, it has pretty wide leaves. And they come off up a stem. Right. So it's a little bit taller of a grass, although it tends to be very, very, very floppy. Loves to just kind of like right over.

Eric
Again something else that a name like stilt does not...

Katie
Well wait! You got to wait because the next part is the stilts.

Eric
Okay.

Katie
At each one of the nodes where one of those leaves comes off, it's able to put roots out that act like stilts a little bit. Not so much to prop it up, but more so. They are called stilt roots. That's one of the fancy words for it, but more so to allow them. Once they flop over and hit the ground, they can root more and and grow further. Right?

Eric
Okay.

Katie
Another way that you can tell. So I mentioned that they have like a little wider leaf blade than a lot of grasses that you might be thinking of in your mind. Another way to identify them is that they actually have a silvery stripe of like kind of if you get out your hand lens and look hairs right on either side of.

Eric
The what is a hand lens?

Katie
Oh. It's like a little tiny—not microscope, Sherlock Holmes.

Eric
Oh, magnifying glass.

Katie
Magnifying glass okay. Yeah, yeah.

Eric
All right. I didn't know if there was something special. I don't know, I've ever heard it referred to as a hand lens before, but I actually kind of like it.

Katie
Yeah, they're usually small or a loop. I think they're also called like a jeweler's loop, but we can use them for outdoorsy things as well.

Eric
Okay. So so this is like a specific type of kind of magnifying.

Katie
Just a little 10x lens.

Eric
Yeah okay. Yeah. Like a monocle.

Katie
Yes! Some people put them on like monocles. It's very cool. But you can use that to look and see that there's actually a bunch of little tiny silvery hairs. And so they kind of reflect light a little bit and that it makes it look like it has an off center stripe down the middle of these leaves. So that's one of the best ways to identify it. Although the stilt roots, those prop roots, the ones coming down off of the stem are really helpful as well. If you want to learn more about how to identify this plant, you can go to the Midwest Invasive Species Information Network or MISIN, and we'll put a link in the show notes. But they have like modules in pictures so that you can figure out what you see.

Eric
So you can see exactly what it looks like.

Katie
Absolutely. And all sorts of zoomed in stuff. And they've got like a module to help you learn how to identify it as well. Not just like looking and reading a paper.

Eric
Oh, so you can get an education while you're there. Free. Free education. Cool.

Katie
So stilt grass likes disturbed areas and moist areas and areas with like kind of patchy sunlight. And so it is a big deal along our trails in particular. We of course can be a big part of that vector. But also wildlife sometimes uses our trails when we're not on them, and they can move them off of those trails into the woods. And this is a species that really is able to grow in a lot of different places and grow very thickly, crowding out other species and again, not supporting the food web. Right. There's not a lot of stuff that eat it. The deer don't eat it, which is always a surprise when you find something deer don't eat and insects really don't eat it as well. So a big problem there and something that we see spreading very widely. It makes a lot of seeds and is able to spread far with these little seeds that get stuck in your socks and as well grow very quickly and take over an area. Right now, I mentioned, since it's on the watch list, this is a species that shouldn't be very common yet in Michigan. And so this is a species that we see most of the populations kind of near Ann Arbor in Washtenaw Countyish. But we also have some in southwest Michigan as well, and as far north as Kent County. So kind of near Grand Rapids. And it's popping up in a lot of different places. We see it at trailheads. We see it in like powerline rights of way, and it's just popping up in all sorts of little places again. And so we really want folks to be on the lookout for this.

Eric
That's interesting that it shows up in in rights of way like that. What is the—why is that?

Katie
Great question. So some of it's the habitat right. It's a little bit open. So it's a great place for it to get a little bit of sunlight, but not too much because there's probably like some trees on either side of this right of way. But the other thing is that those right of ways are maintained. Right. And so it's likely that some of those seeds are getting caught up in mowers and spread to the next site or spread down the right of way corridor. And we see both of those things happening.

Eric
So yeah, I could see that, that some of the seeds getting stuck in the mowing deck and then they come out, you know, 15000 yards down the line and repeat at infinitum. And yeah.

Katie
Yeah, absolutely. So that's one of the main things if you don't want to get on MISIN and, you know, learn how to identify this plant because you're like, look grasses are hard because that's very true. One of the most important things that you can do is actually what we we say is like, play, clean go. So clean off yourself, your equipment, your pets, your ATV, your whatever you've got with you or your mower before you move to another site. So you get to go do the fun thing or work clean, go, go do the fun thing, or go do the work. And then clean yourself, your equipment, your pets before you move to the next site, play clean go. And that is one of the most important things you can do for stilt grass, but also just invasive species in general because you never know. You know, like maybe an invasive species that's really common at one site, maybe isn't common at the next place you go, and you don't know when you're going to the next place necessarily. So it's always a great idea. It's just one of those easy things like keeps your car cleaner, keeps your house cleaner, you know, keeps your gear in better shape. So it's just a win win there.

Eric
Yeah. So who knew that little invasive grass like that could invade and break up the the food web that you were talking about at the beginning of the segment?

Katie
Yeah, absolutely. It's a really big deal. That's, you know, again, the way this grass can really fill in and take over those edge habitats is one of the things that we'll be talking about in our next segment.

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*Transition music

Katie
I would love to talk to you about my very, very, very favorite bird.

Eric
Tell me more.

Katie
Okay, this is the Eastern towhee.

Eric
I love that name. It's interesting.

Katie
It's a little bit named after the song it makes. So it has a call.

Eric
Is it like the cheeseburger bird?

Katie
Well, cheeseburger is a chickadee, but.

Eric
We should rename the chickadee, though, is what I'm saying. It could be the, you know.

Katie
All right. Into the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.

Eric
Yeah. Please do.

Katie
Yeah. So it is named after the sound it makes. Its call is kind of like a towhee kind of call. And it but it can also say like its song is like drink-your-teaaa.

Eric
So drink-your-teaaa.

Katie
Yeah.

Eric
I think that sounds a little clear to me.

Katie
I think I think most people have heard these, these birds because they are not uncommon and they are on edge habitats a lot. So their favorite place to live is in this messy, scrubby, low like thickets and edges of forests. So those messy edges that, like, we don't always really value as humans, right? Right. The edge of the field where the field turns into a forest. That is where towhees love to be because it likes these thicket areas. That actually means it's a relatively understudied species, because it's really hard to see through thick areas of vegetation, right? When we have low, thick vegetation, that's where they are. That's where they like to hang out and that's where they nest. It's hard to study them, but what we do know is that they are a large sparrow. Like, kind of like if you made a sparrow a little big or like squished a robin down a little bit. And the American Bird Conservancy describes them as a dapper bird, which I couldn't agree with more. They wear a dinner jacket so the males have a brown or a black jacket, and it's all the way from their head down their back and covers their wings. The females wear a brown jacket, but beyond that they look quite similar. They both wear a russet or rufous vest, so kind of a reddish brown that covers like the top of their breast. And then their belly is white and they have a little white stripe like outside of the feathers on their tail. So they just are very well dressed for dinner.

Katie
And then they have a red eye, which gives them some of their other common names. They can be called a red eyed chipper or the red eyed towhee. And they're also called like chiwinks and swamp robins. They got lots of cool names. But the most fantastic thing about this bird, and the reason that I love them so, so much. They do come to feeders occasionally, but their favorite way to forage because they like insects best is to use both of their feet to push and jump and shove the leaves in all sorts of directions. So it's this incredibly explosive movement of the bird leaping into the air and tossing leaves in all directions, and I will stop everything I am doing to watch them forage in my native plant gardens. It is one of the greatest things, and so they're very reliant on the insects that are of course, very reliant on native plants. And so we have that really tight connection again, like, oh, invasive species can be a really big issue as well, because we have a lot of invasive shrubs that can take over those thicket areas that the towhee is living. So I mentioned Autumn olive already, but there's a whole bunch of others Japanese barberry, the invasive buck thorns, the butterfly bush, burning bush border privet, and even calorie pear can be even though that's a tree, it's a thicket forming species. So all of these different kinds of thickets might be good physical habitat for a towhee, but it's not going to have the food that they need. The other thing is that habitat loss can be a big deal as far as like physical loss of physical habitat, because we as humans, I mentioned earlier, don't really value thicket edges. We don't look at that and say, oh gosh, that's so lovely.

Eric
I mean, speak for yourself. I mean, my weekends are spent just surrounded by thicket edges. I mean, it's my favorite place to be.

Katie
Yeah. I mean, it's actually I have it that I try to create at my house because I love these towhees so much. But generally speaking, we humans tend to like to mow up to the edge of something and then have like a hedge or like, this is where the forest begins, and we don't always like those messy edges. And so if that's something that you're able to provide at your.

Eric
You're talking about letting the grass grow up a little bit versus.

Katie
Letting the grass grow up, but more importantly, those kind of like shrubby edge plants, like sumac, for example, or a native kind of shrubby thicket plant that can move through the edges, choke cherries. Some of these species box elders that we think of as being a little bit more weedy and maybe not super desirable because they, you know, spread out and they just kind of grow funky and they don't grow super tall. They're not like a big, tall, beautiful tree. They just kind of like spread out. That's something that we can do. Of course, you know, planting native plants so that we have all these insects for the towhee to eat, enabling there to be thicket habitats for them to nest in. Right. But then another thing that's really important is keeping cats indoors. Feral and free ranging cats can also be a really big impact on towhees cats kill an estimated 2.4 billion with a b birds in the US each year, and usually they don't bring them home like they kill them and then they're like, oh, it's not moving anymore. It's not a fun toy. And they they leave it there. And a ground nesting bird like the towhee is the perfect prey, right? This is something you meant. They've got this, you know, the red and the white on the belly. And so that's something that cats might notice in a thicket. I think it's also a really great place for a cat to hunt. So just like with dogs and birds and horses and any pets that we have, responsible ownership is key.

Katie
So keeping your pets inside, if that's the right option, or if you really want your cat to be able to experience the outside, you can try leash training. You can build a catio, or even just like really supervised time outside of your cat. Just can't handle the leash. Following your cat around a little bit and keeping an eye on them can be really, really helpful in reducing those impacts to birds like the Eastern towhee as well as many, many others. And there's an added bonus. The American Veterinary Medicine Association says that keeping cats indoors is just incredibly good for their health, because it reduces a lot of danger. They can get in cat-fights, they can get hit by cars, they can get have diseases, and they can be attacked by other animals. And so I know you mentioned rabies last month as an issue for cats. And so that's one of the ways that we can really keep our cats healthy and safe.

Eric
Yeah, they get ahold of a bat with rabies or get in a fight with a skunk with rabies. Yeah, definitely. Indoor cats are just healthy cats.

Katie
They are healthy cats. And indoor cats with supervised, careful outdoor time can be healthy cats too.

Eric
Yeah.

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*Transition music

Katie
We're joined now by Ryan Wheeler, invasive species biologist in wildlife and forest resources and my go to guy for things with backbones and blood. Welcome, Ryan.

Ryan
Thanks for having me.

Katie
Would you tell us just a little bit about your role overall, and especially to do with invasive species that are mammals?

Ryan
Yeah. So in the Invasive species program, we really rely a lot on collaboration. So I there's any one person who's sort of the sole focus for, for everything, but at least my focus is on a lot of the terrestrial invasive animals in general. So like mammals and birds, reptiles, you know, there's some worms in there. I focus on that. The day to day looks a lot like coordinating or like project management across different departments and funding sources and policies and stuff like that. Some grant technical advisory and risk assessments. So kind of looking out at what species we should be worried about in the future and, and running them through some processes to, to support decisions with.

Katie
Awesome. Well thinking about risk assessments. What about the watch list I talked about? Stilt grass is one of our watchlist species. Are there any mammals on Michigan's watch list?

Ryan
The only mammal we have on the watch list right now are nutria or nutria rat. You can sometimes hear them called that.

Eric
That's one of those hamster looking things, right?

Ryan
Yeah, they're quite a bit bigger than a hamster. If you were to sort of line up all of the the rodent type species in Michigan, you know, you might obviously mice and rats and voles, they're kind of down on the smaller end. And as you work your way up to size, you hit like muskrats. And which I'll talk about a little later. They look quite a bit like nutria, very, very often confused. But then as you go up in size, you might get into wood chucks and groundhogs, and then at the extreme end would be like a beaver. And so in between a wood chuck and a beaver, that size is where you would probably find nutria. But in Michigan we we are blessed with some of the healthiest and sizable muskrats. I think, in the country, our I think our muskrats are sitting out in the cattails, lifting weights and and gorging themselves as they are very healthy, and it makes it a lot harder to differentiate them from from nutria. A lot of times because of their of their size.

Katie
We do have some hefty cattail populations to to feed them for sure.

Ryan
Yeah.

Katie
So if I'm a person out and about, what would I want to be looking for? You said it's a big rodent, but what should I be looking for to tell if it's a nutria or one of our weightlifting muskrats?

Ryan
Yeah. So the number one easiest feature to look for to differentiate a muskrat from a nutria is the tail. So in a muskrat, the tail will be flattened on the sides because they kind of swish it back and forth to help them swim, versus a nutria which just has a round, rat like tail. And so a lot of times if you see them swimming in water, you can tell it's a muskrat, if it's swishing its tail back and forth, if it was a nutria, it would just drag it behind straight like through the water. But if you see them on land, you know, oftentimes you can also see the tail as well. And so you're really looking for those flattened sides. That's the dead giveaway. There are some other features as well, but they tend to be harder to to differentiate. You know some of the pros, you know, like the the folks who handle wildlife like trappers and wildlife services, people like, they can differentiate just based on the fur because muskrats tend to have really fine fur and nutria are much more course. But there's some other things, you know, if you're seeing a relatively large rodent like creature, you know, with, with the white whiskers and the yellow teeth, that should be telling you, maybe I need to get a little closer look at the tail or see what it's doing swimming. But, you know, they're hard. They're hard to differentiate sometimes.

Katie
I saw something that I think might be a nutria. What do I do?

Ryan
Yeah. So the first thing I would encourage you to do is try to get a picture. We're what I get reports. It's makes my job so much easier. If someone has tried to snap a photo and send it to me, and if you can get the tail, even better. But so.

Eric
Well, let me ask you this, Ryan, if I contact you and I don't have a photo, is there really anything that you can do to confirm that what I've seen is a nutria? Or if I just. I saw a thing I thought was a nutria?

Ryan
Yeah. I'll probably ask a lot of these same questions. Like did you see the tail, did you see it swimming. Did you know what did it look like. And that might give us a hint on whether or not we should be putting a lot more effort into following up. But really, a photo is what we're what we really need to get in order to commit a lot of resources into, you know, really chasing after this thing.

Katie
So why are nutria on the watch list? They sound like just kind of really big muskrats.

Ryan
Yeah. So nutria, they just decimate wetlands. What a nutria will do is they'll they'll multiply rapidly, obviously, which most invasive species do, but they really burrow into the sides of like, riverbanks and water control structures, like the dikes that we have in some of our wetlands. And they'll just put a bunch of holes in there and really erode shorelines. They also eat the roots of the of the vegetation. So they'll go in and, and clean out a whole flat of cattails in a matter of years with as their population grows and it really just decimates a wetland. And it can change from how it's supposed to be, like a cattail marsh into just a mudflat. And we've seen examples of this happen in in the Chesapeake Bay and over in the, in the Pacific Northwest. They've had some issues and down south as well. So the Mississippi River Delta area down there and a lot of management has happened. Thankfully, you know, we've we've got some some cold winters up here that are helping keep these things in check. But they are we're right on the border. And we do have some concerns that, you know, if our climate changes enough and our winters become too mild, that they'll be able to survive and become an issue. And so thankfully, though, there's been a lot of experience responding in the Chesapeake Bay area. And so there's been a lot of lessons learned there. And we know that success is possible because of the work that has happened in the Chesapeake Bay. So it's it's good to know that we have resources and a strategy if we do end up with a nutria in Michigan. But as of right now, we haven't confirmed nutria in Michigan.

Eric
But we are keeping an eye peeled for them.

Ryan
Yes. Hence why they're on the watch list and everything. Fun fact, nutria used to be farmed here in Michigan back in the early 1900s.

Eric
What did nutria seeds look like? Yeah. Nice.

Ryan
Oh, yeah. So they were farmed for their fur. They would, you know, grow them up within pens. And obviously they had shelter to survive the winters back then. And they would they were a big export. They would export them over to Europe. And it was it was really big in the fur trade. But the fur trade collapsed in the 1940s. And a lot of these farming operations would just kind of let them go, but not really even being malicious about it. They just didn't really know any better. There were there are historical records of nutria in the wild in Michigan from back in like the 50s and 60s, as these operations were, were shutting down. And that has kind of added to a little bit of the confusion of like, wait a minute do we do we have them here historically or not? And we've we've thankfully been able to attribute it to the farming that happened back then. And so we've we've had no positive confirmations. I think the latest one I've seen is 1963 is was a record that we could actually confirm.

Eric
And so is that one of those cases then where, you know, the trappers that were trapping back then, as well as the Michigan winters just kind of took care of that issue?

Ryan
Yes, yes. That at least that's the thinking. You know, obviously there's there's always a small risk there. And with changing climates, anything's possible, right?

Eric
Yeah.

Katie
But what I hear is that we should keep track of our pets, not let our livestock loose and not release our aquarium pets into the water, either. I know, I know, we're talking about terrestrial here, but it's important to to not let our domesticated or kept species out because they can cause havoc. Right?

Ryan
Yeah. Yeah, that's an important thing. And really where people are to like the the trappers in Michigan are I would say they're probably our best early warning system. You know, anybody who's trapping muskrat will probably be in the best position to discover if we ever end up with a nutria.

Katie
Well, while we've got you here, I have a question. There's a species that's not on the watch list, but I've heard talk about a lot in kind of, like, invasive species adjacent conversations. That is the armadillo. Is it invasive in Michigan? What's what's happening with that?

Ryan
I'll just call back to I think you said earlier that our definition of what constitutes an invasive species has to meet two criteria. You know, it's got to be non-native and it's got to do some type of harm, whether that's ecological or harm to the economy or human health or something like that. And so armadillo, we don't know how to treat them yet. It's not as cut and dry. Some things are very obviously. Yep. This thing is from, you know, Europe or Asia or something. And now it's here. So yep, it's non-native and it's very obviously doing harm because of, you know, some very obvious factors. So a lot of the literature speaks to, you know, sort of the 1800s, late 1800s, 1900s as being this time where armadillo were sort of held in check by the Rio Grande. And so they were held down in, in Central and South America and through just human agricultural practices or whatever else we were doing that that altered the water levels in the Rio Grande that allowed them to make it across. And so it's been quite a long time in this slow spread early on, became established in Texas, and then they were moved via the pet trade down to Florida and Georgia. And and so through many years, they've sort of been growing and it's expanding in population until, you know, now they're Missouri, Illinois and sort of this advancing sort of front, if you will.

Eric
Was it was it advancing army-dillo population?

Ryan
That's good. And, and maybe even an improper use of the term because they're not really an army. And that's part of the difficulty is we see this species expanding and there are very obvious harm that they're doing with their rooting behavior. So armadillos, they'll they get hit by cars, they cause accidents. They, you know, root in in yards and dig holes and stuff like that. But there's also positives too. So like they eat termites and they do a lot of termite control. The holes that they dig are really important refugia for some rare species like reptiles and snakes and stuff like that. And that creates habitat. And so.

Katie
And it's also kind of a natural spread. They're doing it on their own, with the exception of the pet trade. They're doing it on their own. Right?

Ryan
Right. You know, it's just the water level changed. And then they've they've been moving northward. And so they are other species that we think are being held in check by our cold weather. But, you know, as as our temperatures change, we could start seeing a more in Michigan. Up until now, we have at least six records of Armadillo in Michigan. They have all been roadkill and we don't know how they got there. We just don't know. We suspect that maybe they're hitchhiking, you know, maybe they jump in the back of a moving van or something like that. And then or it's a we used to think maybe they're it's a college prank or something like that, that, you know, somebody bringing it back on spring break and releasing it in Michigan or something. But so far we have not identified any established population within the state of Michigan.

Eric
I could see when jumping up, like underneath a 16 Wheeler or something like that, or even just a minivan, you know? Oh, here's a nice warm spot for me to chill out for the night. And then they just gets they're just there until they fall out.

Ryan
Then there's also a lot of, you know, a lot of fear around the spread of there's a bacteria that causes leprosy. And they have been found to possess that bacteria in more dense populations in the south of the United States. And so that sort of propagates this, this fear so far in these populations that have been in the Midwest, there's been no documented cases that that leprosy persists. And so maybe it's a once their population gets too dense, you start seeing disease crop up like we see in other wildlife. But, you know, we haven't documented it here yet. It's a fear that goes along with it. Right?

Eric
Does leprosy affect them the same way as humans?

Ryan
No. Yeah. They don't have actually been a really important model for doctors and researchers studying the disease of leprosy because they can be a leprosy carrier and and but but it doesn't affect them.

Katie
So you've talked about some good things about armadillos with habitat and some maybe less good things about armadillos. So where do they shake out? Are they invasive?

Ryan
Yeah. And the important thing I think is we don't they don't fit the model. And so it's something that we need to we need to work through and what it could end up being. It's just important to I call out this struggle that we're having between the standard definition that we have for invasive does not fit. It's not a cookie cutter black and white thing. And so we need to continue to adapt. And it may look like something where we we treat it as invasive in certain contexts but not others. For example, if we end up with a situation where there are a lot of armadillo in a certain area, that is also important for a rare ground nesting bird, and the armadillos are eating the eggs of that bird, you know, we may need to do some more control and management in that area, but in another area where there burros are helping out another native species, like a rare snake like massasauga or something like that, we may not need to remove them from those areas. And so that's the current thinking on it. But again, we're still assessing the risks, seeing what management needs to occur and what the best way to move forward is.

Katie
What should people do if they see an armadillo here in Michigan.

Ryan
Yeah. So you can report armadillos to the Midwest Invasive Species Information Network, just like any other invasive species, that.

Katie
Even though there may be not invasive.

Ryan
Yeah. Yeah. Again, because we're trying to collect data at this point. This is the learning phase and we don't know what it's going to look like yet. So I think yeah, collecting data, reporting it through misin@msu.edu or the mobile app is the best choice for armadillo.

Eric
And we'll put a link to those in our show notes.

Speaker
There are many camping and lodging opportunities available in Michigan State Parks. When you choose state park campgrounds, you get more than just a campsite. State parks offer a diverse range of recreational opportunities, including hands-on instructional classes, nature programs, places, fish, boat launches, family-friendly events and much more. Reservations can be made six months in advance, so why wait? Visit MIDNRreservations.com or call one 1800-44-PARKS to make a reservation.

Katie
Now is your opportunity to win a WildTalk Podcast mug. As a thank you to our listeners, we'll be giving away a mug or two every episode. Eric who are our winners this month?

Eric
We have Amy Truchan and Jess Dort.

Katie
Check your email as we'll be getting in touch with you soon. They answered the question; what species of bird is not affected by ingesting the botulism toxin? The answer was turkey vulture. They have a highly acidic digestive tract to keep them safe. To be entered into the drawing for this month, test your wildlife knowledge and answer our wildlife quiz question. This month's question is about habitat actually. Six plants were recently added to Michigan's prohibited and restricted invasive species list to protect habitats. Name all six. Email your name and answer to us at DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov and be entered for a chance to win a mug. Be sure to include the subject line as 'Mug Me' and submit your answer by July 15th. We'll announce winners and the answers on next month's podcast, so be sure to listen in to see if you've won and for the next quiz question. Good luck everyone!

Speaker
Michigan Conservation officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report All Poaching Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800, or fill out the complaint form available at michigan.gov/RAP. If you would like more information on becoming a Conservation Officer, click on "Become a CO" at michigan.gov/conservationofficers.

Katie
Thanks for joining us on this edition of the WildTalk Podcast. Remember to play, or work clean go when you're outside to prevent the spread of invasive species. And check out Michigan.gov/Invasives for more information on invasive species. If you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call (517) 284-9453 or email DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov. We'll see you back here in August.

Speaker
This has been the WildTalk Podcast, your monthly podcast, airing the first of each month and offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at (517) 284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.