Rewiring Your Brain for Success with Alan Cox

Are you ready to unlock the secrets of mental fitness and resilience? Join Jennifer Arvin Furlong as she sits down with Alan Cox, founder of the groundbreaking Ever Yellow app, to uncover strategies for rewiring your brain and unlocking your full potential.

In our conversation, we discuss the importance of understanding our brains, learning how to respond instead of react, and practicing mindfulness for increased productivity and personal growth. You'll also learn about the differences between old and new paradigm leaders when it comes to mental fitness and well-being, and the enormous impact of investing in your employees' mental health.

By the end of this episode, you'll be inspired by Alan's story and equipped with practical tools and strategies to improve your own mental fitness and overall well-being. Tune in now and start your journey toward a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life!

Learn more about the Ever Yellow app.

Read this for More Communication Tips!
Book on relationships written by the podcast host, Jennifer Furlong.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Achieving Mental Fitness Through Resilience
• 10:55 Shifting Mindset for Improved Mental Well-Being
• 19:07 Rewiring the Brain's Operating System
• 28:18 Tools for Mental Conditioning and Well-Being
• 40:00 Mindfulness and Breaks in Productivity
• 44:44 Leading by Example
• 51:11 Eviello

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

the younger people are much more attuned to mental health and all those kinds of things. When they've got these stoic leaders like you mentioned, your workforce don't believe you anyway. Right, yeah, they just see you as a BS artist, right And behind your back. They're all laughing about you.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Yeah, yeah, they're probably the best person. They have it sewed together, don't they? Yeah, that's one of the highlights for my conversation with Alan Cox, founder of Ever Yellow, a groundbreaking mental fitness app. We talked about his unique perspective on mental health and resilience and his framework for changing your thought pattern so you can achieve mental fitness. It's like circuit training for your brain. You might be asking what does this have to do with communication skills? Well, if you want to be an effective communicator, you have to first start with the insides. To get the rest of the answer for that question, keep listening.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast, where we communicate about how we communicate. I'm your host, jennifer Furlong. Alan is a mental health changemaker and entrepreneur with over 30 years of experience in innovation And, after surviving an abusive childhood and overcoming mental health challenges, he experienced a life-changing transformation on his journey to mental fitness. Alan is now devoted to helping millions of others achieve mental fitness as well. He has studied Taoism, buddhism, psychology and neuroscience. As the founder of Ever Yellow, a groundbreaking mental fitness app, alan passionately shares his unique perspective on mental health and resilience, empowering others to live more fulfilling lives And y'all know I am all about the empowerment. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Speaker 1: 2:26

You're welcome, and it's my honor to be here as well.

Speaker 2: 2:30

You know, i kind of gave like the brief overview of who you are in this moment in time. Do you mind just taking a few minutes to explain to the audience a little bit about your journey? What has led you to this point? Why have you decided to focus on this area of mental wellness empowerment? you know this entire area of being a life coach. What was the catalyst for that? What has this been like for you?

Speaker 1: 2:58

I've had a very long kind of turbulent history, i guess, and it's really what's led me to what I'm doing today is and I'll go back over that in more detail in a second, but really as a kind of a framing the experience that I had in terms of my transformation and the impact that that had not only on me. It basically illuminated for me just how much most of us are actually missing out on life, on their relationships, on their work opportunities and all of those things really because of, you know, the operating system that's in their head right Quite quickly. I had quite an abusive childhood. I grew up as a young man that didn't think that his parents loved him very, very low self-esteem When you know, looking back, i would have had, without even realizing it, i would have had a very low level of resilience.

Speaker 1: 4:14

So when you reach adulthood and you take on things like mortgage, family and what have you, that's when the cracks really start to happen, because you can't like fall back on your parents or there's no safety net anymore. So that's really when I started, you know, getting bouts of quite serious depression and there's been probably four major life events that tipped me over the edge and, you know I became suicidal. Basically One of them. I had quite a serious back injury at work where I couldn't walk for the best part of a year when I kind of got myself back up and running. I completely the wrong time. This is back in the day when you know your younger listeners won't even remember this, because there was actually a time when the internet didn't really exist, right.

Speaker 2: 5:16

And I remember those days.

Speaker 1: 5:21

So at the time the whole web industry was kind of going ballistic. So I'd already been working in the industry and my wife wasn't working because she was expecting her third child And I basically thought, oh, I'm going to go out and be a consultant, and almost straight away. So I basically got rid of a quite secure job And within a month or so of me going out on my own, there was the dot com crash, right And yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:59

And then I just I just it took me quite a few years to kind of get myself out of that. Then there was the you know I had a team growing up around me. Then there was the global financial crisis I bang again And all these times they kind of really took a toll on me. And then the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, was things were going really, really well for me. I had an agency where I had like about 12 staff. We was doing, you know, lots. You know we had a very well respected brand within New Zealand and we was doing international work. We just invested heavily in getting our own offices with, you know, our signage outside and everything like that, and this was also the days when there was no. You know. We all know about cloud services. You know all of our data's on the cloud now, but at the time that wasn't really a thing. So all of our data and systems and everything, we're all in this air conditioned room at the back of the office, right, and we're on the third floor of this really beautiful building.

Speaker 1: 7:15

As I converted, it was the old post office like from 200 odd years ago in New Zealand. And that's when, you know, one lunchtime I just went out for a stroll and that's when my world changed. There was a massive earthquake struck. I had literally just walked into a doorway when bricks fell down from everywhere. Not only was that a horrific experience, our office was basically. We wasn't allowed in there. That really affected business, you know. There was nowhere to work from And that ultimately led to me having a, you know, losing the business and having a major mental breakdown, and the severity was such that, you know, i had no idea what a breakdown was actually beforehand.

Speaker 1: 8:04

I thought when someone said, oh, they're having a mental breakdown, it's like, oh, you're a bit depressed or something. What I, what I, what I now know, is your brain is actually shutting down parts of its systems that it doesn't really need so it can heal itself, so it can survive, so it can stop you from dying. Right, and I couldn't walk very far. My speech was slurred, i could only stay awake for like a couple of hours at a time. I was. I described the time as just being in a like a pitch black tunnel, zero hope whatsoever and not knowing what way was out or even if there was a way out, and like it was, it was a terrible time. Then, one day either chance or divine intervention, whatever you want to, however you want to put it I watched a TV program on on tele about depression, and that was my turning point, because up until that time, number one, i just didn't have any hope.

Speaker 1: 9:16

I couldn't see any way out. But what that program basically showed me, which I had no understanding of prior, is that when you go through depression, especially for a prolonged period of time, your brain changes. There's parts of your brain and I'm not talking about just your chemistry, but, like your, your hippocampus, which is a very, very crucial part of your brain that's used for mood and other things or has an influence on mood and other things that in my brain probably would have been reduced in size by 20 to 30%. Wow, And and that actually was really great news for me because, like you, go from a position thinking I'm just a broken person and that's the way. That's the way life is. I either accept that or I end it right. And but what that showed me is, oh my God, that there is actually something tangible here.

Speaker 1: 10:20

You know, like especially in trade, training, engineering, and, yeah, what the program also showed is all of these things can be reversed, you know, and they can be reversed with really simple things, you know. they can be reversed by actually spending time in nature and and and feet and feeling the ground with your bare feet, and that's just one of thousands of different things that you can do. And that's when I went on a journey of discovery. I just wanted to learn how to fix myself. right. A fundamental shift happened in my mind. What I now understand, after, you know, a decade of studying, is that if you, if you think of mental wellbeing and I'm and I just want to be really clear here, i'm not talking about specific mental illnesses such as schizophrenia or anything like that In terms of general mental wellbeing, if you think of a continuum, say, between one and 10, one is like you are probably suicidal, and 10, you're more enlightened than Dalai Lama or something right And around the three mark is the point where, technically speaking, you're mentally well or mentally unwell, right?

Speaker 1: 11:44

So if you if you was, say, a 3.5 or a four, and you went to the doctor and said, look, i'm, you know I'm I'm depressed, i need some pills or whatever. If they're a good doctor, they, they will do an assessment on you. There's a, there's a proper assessment that they would do And if you're above a three, they'll say you're actually fine. You know, you, you're probably stressed, you probably need to take a bit of time off work. You probably need to think about making some changes in your routine, whatever, whatever those things might be.

Speaker 1: 12:18

The thing is is that if you think of kind of like a bell curve, most, most of the population are around 5.5, around that figure, and 70, 80% of the population are probably around between, say, four and six. So most of us that aren't even mentally unwell, we're in this state that I call just okay. We, we're going through the the motions of life and we don't even know that there's another way. When I basically moved beyond that kind of normal range, it just brought profound change to my life. My, my relationship with my wife got a hundred times better. My performance at work increased dramatically. I've become more creative, i've become more innovative. When I tell people this story, they don't believe me sometimes, but like I can have someone say, somebody walk up to me in the street and offer to fight me or something You know this this.

Speaker 1: 13:30

I actually had this happen about six months ago where this guy in a in a very crowded car park where there's loads and loads of youngsters, was basically doing burnout, you know, and I kind of just went, you know, like that to him.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Like what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 13:49

And I don't know if the guy was either on drugs or sec or whatever, but you know, he'd come screaming up to me, shouting in my face, basically offering to fight me, and all that, and because of what my mind had become, i just was completely calm and said no, i don't want to fight you, you know. And I just walked off right. But the but the even more powerful thing was is that within a few minutes of that event, it was not even in my mind anymore. I I moved on to other things, whereas I think most people A they would have gone into the office saying, oh, you'd never believe what happened to me just now, do you know? and and that will probably ruin their day. And that's just one example of many, many things that have changed for me.

Speaker 1: 14:43

I very rarely get sick now, you know, whenever, when everyone's getting colds, if I do get one, it's it's fleeting, very, you know, very minor. I don't know if it's because of this, but I haven't had COVID. I just never get flu or anything like that. And You know, it's not like a polyanna thing. You know like I genuinely look at the world with More clarity, more optimism, i'm a much better listener and all of those kinds of things. So, so, really, that that's my journey and I Wanted to give that to other people.

Speaker 1: 15:22

Today. I'm the founder of an impact venture that Makes an app that solves a big problem in the mental health app space, which I'm sure we'll come through, could Later. I just couldn't really be happier. I know that our app is helping Thousands of people around the world. It's helped. It's helped although it wasn't designed to do this. It's helped people out of Self-harm situations where you know, Seeing a psychologist wasn't helping. So look, i've I've already succeeded in that respect, you know, but I just want to keep on going and, and Go. Go beyond thousands to millions. That's what I want to do.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Yeah, i'm so grateful that You're here sharing your story. I think it's really important for people to be able to hear Everyone share stories like this, because I think it's very easy for us as Individuals to pretend right, we put on that mask and, like you said earlier, we kind of like we go about our day being okay, right, everything It's it's, it's okay, without even realizing that there is a Different way, a better way, or maybe we hope that there is a different or a better way, but we're not quite sure how to tap Into that, and so the more people that I can have conversations like this with and the reason I wanted you to come on to a show like this, where we focus on Communication, is I firmly believe that this is where it begins. You know the quality of your conversations with others, and the quality of the conversation that you have with yourself is Going to have an impact on your mental well-being. Can, can you take us back just a little bit? Can you pinpoint a moment or a time, or you know, maybe just a, an Area that you can think of, where you were, like You can remember your mindset shifting, in that the language you were using, or you know The phrases you were using or just your quality of conversation that was happening. You know that internal, that internal dialogue that we all have, you know, especially in difficult moments. You know we all have those peaks and those valleys. So I think we can all appreciate, you know, that everything that you've had, you've gone through, can you pinpoint a time or a moment where you could, you could tell, wow, this is. This is a fundamental shift in how I'm actually Thinking about these things, how I'm having this internal dialogue about a certain situation Or a moment in time or an event that's happening that normally, probably, would have sent you off the rails and that now it's like, okay, i can tell, i can tell just how I'm communicating with myself. The quality of it is different.

Speaker 2: 18:22

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Speaker 1: 19:03

Yeah. So just to kind of Put some, i will answer that, to put some kind of framing around it. First is that If you, if you think of What's going on in our brain, has been like a, a piece of software, right, like, if you think of it as like being an operating system, right, that that that software Has two very distinct components, right, it has. Say, like, all of the logic and functionality, if you like, so that You know, if this happens and this happens, then do this or whatever, right? And it also. And it also has data, right, you know that. And that data has been. You know, whether you, whether you realize it or not, every single experience that you've ever had Get stored away, right, you know. So What you think about yourself, others, joyful experiences, bad experience, all of all of that data gets stored away. So if you, if you think of a, a real computer program, and There's something wrong with the programming, right, you know it takes two and two and it gives five instead of four, right, that's something wrong with the actual functioning, right. But also if you, if you Layer on top of that, feeding it bad data, right, it's it. That's even worse, right.

Speaker 1: 21:04

So, so There would have been a time, and let's just, let's just think of a really run of the mill experience, right, is that, driving on the way to work, some Guy comes up in a car on the side, just almost takes the front of your car off, tried trying to get over. You know, and That operating in my brain, that operating system in my brain, for whatever reason, would have said something like When that happens, that person is trying to harm you, right, that's that's the, that's the bad data. And the operating system says when someone's trying to kill you in this situation or harm you, you Press on the home, give rude Disticulations out of the window and and you get angry, right, that that's the, that's the operating system saying that's what you do. And then that and that whole thing, that whole data set and operating system has been built up over decades, right, and it becomes completely Unconscious and habitual. Like you don't, you don't think about how you drive a car, do you? it just happens, yeah, you don't. When you ride a bike, you don't think to sell, put left foot down, right foot down, turn this to. You know, you just ride a bike, it just happens automatically, and that, and that's what, that's what most of us would do so.

Speaker 1: 22:51

So when, when I got an understanding of that, or when anyone gets an understanding of that, you could, you can start to say, right, i'm gonna start to question What my thoughts and behaviors are right, and It's actually really really hard what, what, what, what, what, what, what. What happens in like the first phase of Transformation, if you like, is something like that will happen and you'll have those habitual reactions again. Right, but afterwards, as soon as it happens, you go hold on a minute. What am I doing, right? Do I really know? Do I really? Is it really true that that guy was trying to harm me? No, that's, we don't know that to be true. Right? Is it a rational response for me to do what I did?

Speaker 1: 23:56

So you start having that after the event, kind of taking yourself to task kind of thing, and when, the first time you kind of really know that something is shifting, is when something trivial like that happens And it could be someone, doesn't You know someone? If I was going in, to, say, a store and the person in front didn't hold the door open for me, i would get incredibly angry and make all kinds of assumptions. Yeah, exactly right. But what you'll start to notice is things like that will happen and you'll think to yourself oh, don't worry about it, that person has probably got a lot going on in their mind, and that's when you really notice that a shift is happening, because you're consciously thinking a better story, right?

Speaker 2: 25:12

That's right.

Speaker 1: 25:13

And then what happens is, as you continue doing, that, when those things happen, it doesn't even come, it doesn't even register consciously. It just The way I kind of describe it. What happens is there's a process it's called neuroplasticity, where you're literally rewiring pathways in your brain. And the way I kind of try to like analogize this is imagine you're in, like, say, a big cornfield or something, right? And you want to go from A to B And there's a well trod on path that you've walked a thousand times before, and so when you go into that field, you're naturally going to walk down that path because it's easier.

Speaker 1: 26:23

It's hard to break a new path through this other direction, right? So when you consciously think, right, actually I don't want to go to B, i want to go to C, you just need to understand that it's not going to be instantaneous, right, like you, that's right. It's going to be a bit of effort, and the more you walk that path, eventually that pathway becomes completely clear and automatic, right? But here's the thing, right, while you've been doing that, what has happened with the other path? Right?

Speaker 1: 27:04

It's re Sorry it's basically cleared away And that literally does happen. Physically in your brain There's these neural circuits that when something happens, it will send a signal to make you think or behave or feel a certain way. And if you make If you consciously work to make that happen a different way, that old pathway will eventually die away, quite literally.

Speaker 2: 27:37

I really like the idea of rewiring and it's almost like retelling a story. It reminds me of something I've talked about this before self-serving bias And going with the story that you were saying earlier, you're driving down the road and somebody cuts you off And immediately the self-serving bias is oh, they're a bad person or they're being a jerk or there's something wrong with them. Right, we immediately take it to the negative. But if we were the one who's in a rush and we're driving really fast and we cut somebody off, then we will naturally have an excuse for it. Right, we'll have, we'll legitimize it in some way.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Oh well, i'm late for work or I got to get to the emergency room, whatever the reason is, And that's the self-serving bias part of it. So if we can stop, like you were saying, just stop for a moment and just rethink what's happening there. So later on, what are some other reasons why that person could have been in such a hurry? And it could be that maybe they didn't see you or maybe they were on their way to the emergency room, maybe they were in a hurry because they were told by their boss if you're late one more time, you're gonna get fired, whatever it is, and it has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Speaker 2: 28:56

It's just something that they're just going through a moment they're in time, and so I really like how your description of it. it did remind me of that self-serving, bias idea of taking a moment and just rewriting that, or just at least taking a moment to think about it in a slightly different way, give you a different perspective of that happening.

Speaker 1: 29:23

Yeah, i guess. Another kind of viewpoint on that, i guess, is that when you think about it, like, quite logically, if when something like that happens, you allow it to have that effect on you, it's actually not self-serving at all, it's actually damaging. And this is where you can flip it round and say, look, this behavior is not serving me. There are literally so many like, since I've been on this new path, there's just literally so many times where, say, something has happened during the day and then my wife has been in the car and for a fleeting moment I've thought to myself, oh, i'll tell Sally about that thing that happened this morning. And then I stopped myself and said, no, that's not serving me.

Speaker 1: 30:34

What will that achieve? You know, i said, oh, guess what? I was going down the road this morning and the lights went green. I just pulled out, this car went across, could have killed me. And if you basically, just using that example, you want to bring the best person of yourself to work to your family, your relationships, you know, i think it's actually more self-serving, if you think of it, that you're actually harming yourself by allowing those things in your life. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 31:23

Absolutely. I love the idea of the intentionality behind that, and this is really big. You know when I talk about intentional communication as well, and also the importance of responding versus reacting, and so by asking that question, i think it helps in both of those areas. You know how does this serve me or how does this serve the other person. You know what is going to be the result of this. You know, when you pause just for a moment to ask those very important questions, you know, i think that could have a huge impact on how you move forward. You know, like you were saying and sharing, you know those little moments, and I think that's a critical point right there You had mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2: 32:12

There are just some things that you know one can do to help with the rewiring or to help with I don't know if it's a mood change or what you know. You mentioned earlier something as simple as going outside and allowing your feet to touch the grass. You know, as you were describing that, i could feel immediately like I was just feeling better. Even just thinking about that, like, oh man, yes, going outside and just feeling, you know, the nice, soft grass on a warm, sunny day that immediately just puts me in a better mood and not even, you know, actually experiencing it. I think that's a brilliant, you know suggestion for anyone. What are some other tools that you have found that you can use to kind of ground yourself, you know, in that way, to kind of force that pathway, you know, or to force something new, a new thought pattern?

Speaker 1: 33:18

Yeah, so in terms of let's kind of I think there's like two separate things is like, how can I do things that are like better for my well-being and make me feel better? And there's also, how can I actually change my thought patterns, right?

Speaker 2: 33:41

Okay.

Speaker 1: 33:44

So for changing your thought patterns, so that process of what created that operating system in the first place. That is called mental conditioning, right? All of these experiences are conditioning your brain. For example, because of the childhood I had, for many years I believed that my parents did not love me. But when I was able to challenge that and say, well, like what, what? just because they did what they did, what, what evidence is there that they did not love you? There's actually probably a lot more evidence that they actually do love you very much, right? So so I guess there's, there's, a conscious pathway to recondition your mind.

Speaker 1: 34:54

It's not necessarily that easy when we see that there's so many ideas out there about how to do things right. If I could talk to my earlier self, my younger self, i would say to myself start learning about things like you know. Just go on YouTube, make it easy, don't you know? I'm not talking about taking an academic path, but just start learning about things like what role your hippocampus has, what the amygdala does, what the, and it's absolutely fascinating, right? And the more, the more you start reading this material. If you're anything like me, you kind of get, you get a bug, you get hooked right.

Speaker 2: 35:38

You get sucked into the rabbit hole, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 35:41

Yeah, it's a it's a it's a nice rabbit hole. Yeah, it's not, it's not a bad rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: 35:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:48

And it's. It's a rabbit hole full of OACs and stuff. Just that knowledge is reconditioning your mind, is through that knowledge that when situations occur, you'll think back to what you read somewhere is oh, actually that's happening.

Speaker 1: 36:08

If you understand the mechanisms of anxiety, i used to get quite severe anxiety, i think mostly because of the like, the earthquake situation. And when I learn about the mechanism right And so really quickly, a part of your brain detects danger, even though 99.99% certain that you're not in danger, but a part of your brain says I think you're in danger. It fires off some chemicals that initiates the fight or flight response.

Speaker 1: 36:48

You then, you then get stressed because you're sensing these chemicals and you don't understand the stress And it then gets into a vicious loop where, before you know it, your, your, your hands are shaking, your, your legs feel like jelly and you, you, you don't know what's going on. But when I learned about the mechanism, i actually remember the time so vividly. I was, i was, i was in the middle of a conversation at a social event And I started feeling anxious And I could feel it. You know, that horrible feeling in my, in my fingers and things. And I was actually talking to someone at the time And I was able to say to myself in the back of my head while I was having the conversation there's something in this environment, maybe, maybe this guy looks somewhat similar to someone that bullied me at school or something.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Right This may.

Speaker 1: 37:47

Maybe there's a smell in the air that triggers off a time when I had my accident Yeah, i could. So I was able to say something has triggered that response. Don't worry about it, because what? what you're feeling is the natural chemical release And if I don't worry about it it will just pass And within within a few minutes it had completely gone away, and that that is the kind of thing where you can just work on your kind of mental conditioning and not not wanting to kind of plug the heavy yellow app, but that that is a mental conditioning app. It just makes it really easy for anyone to to do that using a like a solid scientific framework. On the other side of things you said about the feet on the grass or what have you, a lot of these things have actually been scientifically validated, like, for example, instead of going three, four hours straight, or five hours straight between starting work and having lunch.

Speaker 1: 39:04

If every hour you take five or 10 minutes to have a break, go and just go and smell some fresh air. Even the act of, say, looking at distant objects, it has a neurologically positive effect And a lot of these things you can do together. Right, so you can go outside and you can walk. Right, so walking is getting some oxygen flowing. While you're walking, notice the smells that you know. Look, look at distant objects. All of these things have a positive neurological impact And I really don't know why isn't in all businesses today like enforcing a 10 minute break every hour, because those businesses would do so much better. I looked into the data on it And it's something like the productivity of a person over a full day will increase by 20 to 30% if they take a 10 minute break every hour.

Speaker 2: 40:15

Isn't that amazing? You know I'm hearing a theme and I have a great appreciation for this theme because in communication, you know, we always talk about it's a process, it's an ongoing process And so it's. There's no magic answer to all of a sudden becoming this effective public speaker or this effective communicator, you know, and there are certain things that we can do to practice, there's some things that we can pay attention to, but at the end of the day, it's that process. Is that ongoing? just being mindful of the process itself, little tweaks here and there, and then over time, you'll find yourself not even really thinking about it anymore. It's one of those things that, as you make it a part of your every day, whatever it is that you do every day, you know it's almost like muscle memory.

Speaker 2: 41:11

And it sounds like this is very similar to that, in that it takes time, you know, and it takes effort to just be in the moment and be mindful and to think about how this is a process. You know it's not going to be anything that happens overnight, but then, all of a sudden, it may feel like one day wow, when did this switch occur, when did this happen? That's probably one of the coolest things to be able to, you know, sit there and think, wow, i'm not feeling that way anymore, i'm not having that reaction anymore.

Speaker 1: 41:44

In the experience that I had on this journey, basically going from practically suicidal right up to the other end of the spectrum, i think the thing that I would say is that even those really small changes at the beginning were more profound and impactful than the ones I got at the end Because, like when you're in that state of just not knowing right and not being aware of you know, like how all of these things are harming you or harming others.

Speaker 1: 42:27

It's completely analogous to the mouse on the wheel right All the mouse can see is what's in front right. And if you think of, let's say, you've got an unfit mouse on a treadmill plodding along right, if you take that mouse off the treadmill, the mouse doesn't suddenly become fit, but what the mouse suddenly, suddenly sees is oh my God, there's a world out here that's not on the treadmill. I think that I think that's what I'm trying to say is that once it actually doesn't take much that you know, once something has illuminated your perspective, you know that actually I don't want to just be on this treadmill, i want to get off the treadmill. And you know, maybe when the mouse got on the treadmill he's in this really big, nice, fancy gym where there's all different things that the mouse can do, right, and that's that's what it's like, right, and then? and then you're suddenly on this journey, but I think just getting off that treadmill is a wonderful, wonderful experience.

Speaker 2: 43:37

And I can see all kinds of applications for this. you know, obviously, just internally, for ourselves, this is something that is incredibly helpful to be able to just gain a different perspective, a wider perspective. But if you're someone who's, you know, a leader in an organization you have mentioned it just a second ago if the workforce could, just if we could just tell everybody take a 10 minute break, you know, we'll be so much more productive. How would you recommend leaders in different organizations take some of the information that we've been talking about today, some of the concepts, the ideas? how might they be able to use this and make a real impact, you know, in the workplace, for their employees?

Speaker 1: 44:27

Yeah, that's a really good question, because over the last year I've been, you know, talking to lots of business leaders, people in HR, well-being, what have you? I'm starting to form this picture of theirs. There's old paradigm leaders and new paradigm leaders. Old paradigm leaders they tend to have this kind of idea of we've always done workshops and provided employee assistance programs. Why change anything? We don't really want to do anything else, because it's people's own personal responsibility to take care of their own well-being. That's not our job. That's not why we're here.

Speaker 1: 45:15

Yet new paradigm leaders they understand two fundamental things. Firstly, they understand the incredible value that comes from investing in the well-being of their people. Any business leader doesn't already understand the monetary impact of investing in their well-being. They really need to go and look, because if they're not aware of it, they're probably losing lots and lots of money. The other thing that new paradigm leaders understand is they need to lead by example. What that means is, instead of just throwing money at the situation, throwing money and saying we do all this for our well-being, what new paradigm leaders do is they take really good care and work on their own mental fitness. They then tell their people about how it's helped them, how it's impacted their life. Instead of saying we're spending this much money for you to do meditation apps or whatever the things are, instead of that being able to say, look, i've actually been finding that by doing this, i'm sleeping a lot better, i'm having more energy, whatever those things are, it's making my home life better and I'm more present with my children, and things like that. I'd really like you to have that. They're the two things.

Speaker 1: 47:12

It really comes down to understanding the impact that well-being can have on your organization, because it really is profound. Even that taking 10 minutes every hour kind of thing can have an enormous impact on burnout. Burnout is at an all-time high, and the reason it's an all-time high is that the landscape has changed post-COVID. There's a lot of companies that have had to downsize, and that means that there's even more pressure and work on the people that are left behind. Just taking some steps to make things easier for their people can have a huge effect. Depending on whether you look at data from deloits or one of the other big research firms, burnout today is costing employers somewhere between $2,000 and $3,600 for every $10,000 in salary that they're paying for their entire workforce. That burnout is affecting somewhere between 60-70% of people just because you look at your team and think, well, they look fine, they're doing their work. If leaders get a much better understanding of the true impact of a mentally fit workforce and they do truly lead well-being by example, then that would be a really good place to start.

Speaker 2: 48:59

There's something very important that you said I wanted to just highlight. It's critical for these leaders to be able to be the example for their workforce. I think all too often somebody will get into a leadership position and then all of a sudden they feel like, oh well, i have to be so stoic, i have to be the one with all the answers, i have to be the one that has it together, and everyone has to look at me and understand that I'm in charge and that if anything's going on, i'm kind of like I'm the rock here, i'm the foundation. Really, when you think about it, that's not how we relate to each other as humans. I mean just listening to you tell your story and being willing to share that story and sharing that vulnerable aspect of yourself, that's what creates that connection between humans.

Speaker 2: 50:01

If there are any leaders out there, any managers out there, who are listening to this, i really hope they take that aspect of it to heart That you're not being viewed as a weak person if you share your experiences with your workforce and if you are willing to share with them these things that you have tried and you have been able to put to practice, some of these things to improve your own mental fitness and well-being, then that's only going to create even stronger relationships across the board as well. That has to be good for your workforce. If you are a speaker or an event planner, you really should check out the Innovation Women website. Innovation Women has placed hundreds of women on stages across the world. Whether you are a beginner looking to book your first speaking gig or a seasoned professional looking to expand your connections, i highly recommend that you give Innovation Women a try.

Speaker 1: 51:11

Just to bring a bit of humor but truth to it as well. I'm very familiar with workplaces, especially with younger workforces. The younger people are much more attuned to mental health and all those kinds of things. When they've got these stoic leaders like you mentioned, your workforce don't believe you anyway.

Speaker 1: 51:49

They just see you as a BS artist and behind your back they're all laughing about you Just being real and letting people see the real you. I think that just goes so far. You get so much more respect, so much more out of your people than if you're that person that's just trying to create that facade. At the end of the day, that facade that many of us live behind, you're just putting layers on this egg that one day is going to crack.

Speaker 2: 52:32

And it will crack, and once it cracks, it gets messy, so we don't want to have that. Tell us a little bit about your app. what's going on with the app, how is it being used and how is it being helpful?

Speaker 1: 52:49

One of the questions I get is why the hell did you create an app when there's already hundreds out there already? I was given a list of apps to try, like meditation apps, journaling apps, all these different types of things. None of them helped me and I thought it was something wrong with me. I later discovered that there's very, very little evidence of efficacy of any of these apps. There was a study done just last year in fact, involving 50,000 people, and it split those into two groups. One group they were using one of the top 30 mental well-being apps. I won't mention names, but we all know what they are.

Speaker 2: 53:47

Super advertisements all the time, everywhere.

Speaker 1: 53:51

The other group were basically not doing anything And there was no statistical difference between the two groups. The other thing that it kind of horrified me but it didn't surprise me was when I learned that even the best performing of these apps, over 96% of them are deleted within two weeks and some of them are less than half a percent. So that was the why I basically could see that there are literally billions of people in the world that they're not necessarily mentally unwell, but they're struggling with their stress burnout feeling that life sucks or whatever And there aren't the tools to help them.

Speaker 1: 54:45

So that's when I decided I wanted to do something about it, and what we basically found? we did quite a bit of research first. I come from a research and design background an innovation background myself And I really wanted to understand what the problem was with the existing apps, and there were three main things. One is that people found them tedious and mundane. They just didn't really want to spend time with them. If you're asked to watch a TV series and you don't like the first episode, you're not going to listen to them.

Speaker 2: 55:24

That's right, yeah, you lost them.

Speaker 1: 55:28

The second reason was that people find these things to be quite difficult to fit into their life, even things like meditation. Over 70 percent of people would not do meditation. Some people might see it as too old fashioned or old school, but for a lot of people it's things like I don't have the time or space to do it Where I live with my family. I can't do that kind of thing. I asked many people to do things like journaling. It's just really uncomfortable for them. They just don't want to do it. And the third thing was that people would try these apps for maybe a week or two and felt no difference. So they stopped.

Speaker 1: 56:17

So what we wanted to do with Eviello was create an app that had a very solid scientific core to it and was an enjoyable experience and was really really easy to fit into your life. Earlier on, i spoke about this process called mental conditioning and neuroplasticity. It actually harnesses that for a positive effect. What happens is is when you first download the app, we ask some questions that take just a couple of minutes to fill out, so we really get to understand your kind of wellbeing profile. We then download a whole bunch of narrated content to your phone, and that content is education, knowledge, motivation, guidance. And then, once you have that, every time you press play. It's like doing circuit training for your brain.

Speaker 1: 57:20

You listen to this lovely audio experience that basically blends these narrations against a backdrop of music and sound, and You don't even have to think about how long have I got. You just press Let's play and you stop. When you're done, you can change the music to be how you want it to be. Every time you listen We generate a new session every time. There's a lot of technology going on under the hood. We have 10 different measures of well-being sleep quality, motivation, energy, relationship, quality all of these different things 78% of people Had at least some improvement across all 10 areas within one week.

Speaker 2: 58:08

Wow.

Speaker 1: 58:10

Yeah, but what was even more amazing is that within one week, you know might have been lower numbers, like 40, 50%, but in some specific areas, like say, 40 50% of people had a Moderate to significant improvement in their sense of self-worth, for example, or their sense of sense of optimism and yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:37

So one of the most impactful features, i guess, around the app is that You literally can use it at any time, like even when you're working. The player basically has a slider that allows you to adjust the balance of Music and voice, so you can turn the voice right down, so all you're really hearing is the music. You can then get on with your work, but all while you're listening, those messages are still getting through a subconscious level. You know, we've had lots of people that have come to me and told me their story of how Changing their life or their reaction in a certain situation, and I've said, oh, thanks for sharing that. And they said, oh, no, that's not. That's not the bit I'm excited about. They said I've I've never actually listened to the words. They said I just can't believe that when this situation happened, the messaging came back to me, but like in my own voice, like in my own head, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 59:35

So, yeah, we're a social impact Venture, which means that Making impact is a priority over, like, revenue and money. So as part of that, we believe that money should never be a barrier to well-being. So the free version of the app is Comprehensive and you can use that forever. So if you, if you, truly can't afford to pay, then there's a you know, a highly effective well-being that's always there for you. But we also have a premium version that has a lot more content, more, but more backing tracks and that kind of thing, and we also have an offering for businesses as well that Allows them to give that to their people. But you, we also can aggregate and anonymize the data so that you can track well-being in your organization in real time.

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

Wow Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:29

Yeah, so you know, we, we know that it's working. It is, it is a true paradigm shift in how Mental well-being apps are done. Although it's not really designed for the lower end of mental well-being, we know that it's, you know, definitely helping people with depression and PTSD. It's helped people out of even self-harm situations. We've recently just completed a trial with a university here, with their staff and, and within one month, practically all people within that group you know they're their, their well-being Had, like shown, shown a positive improvement, like quite a significant improvement, and that has a tangible Effect on everything in the organization, right, you know the, the culture, everything.

Speaker 2: 1:01:19

I Can think of just so many different audiences That I would encourage to at least try, because it's easy to say, ah well, it's just another app. But I'm a big believer in you gotta at least try, because I know we all are so stressed out, overwhelmed, burned out. You know, like you you were saying, you know, not only in our work spaces, but getting over this. You know pandemic, and you've got students who are in school who are stressed out. You've got like earlier I mentioned to you before we started recording, today is my five-year anniversary Of being cancer-free, you know, as a breast cancer survivor, and so there's a lot of stuff though that still continues. You know, anyone who's a cancer survivor would be able to relate to that that there's, there's still stuff in the background that you have to deal with Emotionally and, you know, mentally also.

Speaker 2: 1:02:15

I'm recently divorced, you know. I, my husband and I were together for 27 years and now, all of a sudden and this was recent, you know so I can imagine people who are also in that same situation if you, you have this Recent big event that has happened. Let's not be that person that says, oh, it'll go away. You know, it's fine. Like you said earlier, there will be cracks That will begin. There's no shame in in saying, hey, maybe this is something that I could try out, and if you're already a podcast listener, hello, this isn't gonna be a big stretch for you, right?

Speaker 1: 1:02:57

There's one person in particular I I spoke to I know the accents or the voices or something or the type of messaging kind of I said I'm not really sure that I really like it. This is like a, not an older guy that's. He's a biker and it's kind of like I don't do this kind of thing. You know, right, yeah, yeah, right. And He runs of an evening, right. And I said, look, just do this for me, turn the voice down, so you know, and just put on like the chill hip hop track or whatever it is that, whatever it is that you want to listen to, just listen for at least 10 minutes a day. And I encourage everyone to use a technique called habit stacking and that's where you tie your whatever, whatever habit you want to do. You tie it to something that you already do so that you always remember Walk the dog, i'll listen to it when I have my breakfast or when I'm, whatever those things are.

Speaker 2: 1:03:55

I'm watching the dishes, when I'm vacuuming, when I'm sweeping, whatever it is, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:00

Yeah, and I said so. So use habit stacking, use it for at least 10 minutes a day. Anyway, he, he contacted me after a couple of weeks. Well, i actually I just completely forgot about it and he said, alan, i need to talk to you about the app. And I I thought, oh, what's going on here? Because, as an aside, he's one of my investors, right?

Speaker 2: 1:04:25

Oh, Oh, so you're bracing yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:04:29

Oh, he said look, I did what you said. I can't believe it. He said like I'm now running Faster than I've ever run before.

Speaker 1: 1:04:38

Right like he's he said like I don't know. I don't know what's happened, but something's happened. To think how that mind Set shift in two weeks has led him to run faster is Is incredible, you know. Like you know, i don't. I don't know how that happened. Maybe maybe it just took some mental barriers away or something I don't know game a bit more energy or optimism. There's really no excuse not to just give it seven days, see if you feel a shift. You know We get so many people that say, yep, i've felt the shift, you know that's exciting, that this is an important topic.

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

I think it's it's worth the time to spend having these conversations and not just having the conversation about Feeling overwhelmed and feeling burned out and feeling stressed and, you know, depression and anxiety, because I think that's important to talk about it And I think it's important that we all feel comfortable Communicating about these things. But I think what's even more important about this conversation is for people to take away that there is Something that we can try or even if it just gets a little bit better. You know that it's better than nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:00

And so I just want to encourage everyone to give this a try, and I know somebody out there thinking Oh, it's just one more thing, but you know what is it gonna hurt? Yeah, honestly what?

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

is it gonna?

Speaker 2: 1:06:10

hurt.

Speaker 1: 1:06:13

Yeah, that's. One of the biggest bits of feedback that we get is that they people love it because it's not another thing to do. Yeah, you know it's.

Speaker 2: 1:06:20

Yeah, I love it. So how do we?

Speaker 1: 1:06:21

find you.

Speaker 1: 1:06:27

If you want to find out more about the app at ever yellowcom, you can just go to either of the, you know, Google or Apple app stores and download it for free. If you're in your own app store, you can go to the app store and download it for free. If you're interested in trialing it within your company, then contact me on LinkedIn. Just just plug in my name, Alan Cox, and you'll find me there. If there's anyone out there that you know wants to contribute in some other way, then I'm all ears as well.

Speaker 2: 1:06:56

I will make sure that all the links are there in the show notes so it's easily accessible and I'm excited for my listeners. So I'm really hoping that they really do give this a try, because that's really the whole point of doing this podcast. You know, as a communicator, and at the end of the day that just means building stronger relationships. But we all know that starts on the inside. We got to be able to get the insides right. Thanks again so much, alan, for joining us. I truly appreciate your time.

Speaker 1: 1:07:23

Yeah, thank you, jen, it's been really cool.

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

All right, everybody, you have a great rest of your day and we will catch you next time. Bye.