Episode 139: The New Unpopularity of Transgenderism

Transgenderism is in rapid decline across the UK and U.S., demonstrating it always was a social trend and without institutional backing would fold. We discuss how in contrast homosexuality is not a trend, is transhistorical, and not geographically contingent. Plus, Trans YouTubers views falling off a cliff, lesbians continuing to call themselves 'non-binary' to signal desires and expectations rather than adopt a Trans identity, detransitioners providing good warnings by example, and the legacy of the uptick in Trans due to Covid lockdowns.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Hello, hello. Once again, tuning into Red Fem. We see you, we hear you. Maybe we are you. I don't know where I'm going with this. An identity crisis of sorts. If we start to mistake ourselves for our uh loyal and treasured audience. On today's show, I was just trying to be original there. This is like the spaff that comes to my brain when I try to be original. On today's show, we're going to be talking about the decline in popularity of transgenderism, certainly in the United Kingdom and the United States. We've known for a while now, due to the availability of statistics, that referrals to gender identity clinics have declined over the last few years in the UK. And I just keep seeing more and more spotting more and more content online that is indicative of a wider decline in transgenderism, particularly amongst adults. And while some of it may well crop up on my feed because of my particular algorithm, I have come across stuff on uh I've come across things that aren't are not part of any kind of critical, you know, gender critical or uh uh well we'll I'll describe it when we get into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, I think that that was one of the central things that the gender critical movement said very early on was that this was reflective of a social contagion, that this was a trend, that this was fashion, basically. And I'm thoughtful about the it was Lisa Lippmann's study that studied groups of teenage girls and how transgender identity would um was transmitted through social connections, basically. And there was such an attempt by the by LG LGBTQ activists and these third sector charities to to squash down that narrative because they they really wanted to piggyback off the gay rights movement. And homosexuality has always been part of human life. Um it's something that's relatively historically stable, that people are gay, have been gay or have had homosexual behaviors across time, um, no matter what you called it, and whatever kind of cultural epoch you were in at the time. It's always been a part of human life and human culture. And there was a real attempt to make transgenderism into the same thing, these kind of desperate searching for historical references, the transing of people like Joan of Arc and Alan Turing. The Alan Turing one is particularly grotesque, um, you know, because of what, because of him being sterilized by the state for being a gay man. Uh, but we always knew that this was very trend-based, and it was happening among uh primarily the the group of people who are most susceptible to these sorts of body modification trends, which is middle-class white teenage girls. And that has been proven to be the case. There's been a huge drop-off in LGBTQ identification. It is no longer cool. Um, and it has turned out not to be the historically stable phenomenon that being gay or bisexual is. And we're seeing a broad um sort of backlash to the policies that were advocated for by trans activists, and even in very homophobic countries and times, in Iran, for example, the incident of ho incidence of homosexuality doesn't go down. People are still gay. Um there isn't a place in the world where people there aren't gay people. But uh, when there's been uh a turn to the right culturally generally, people stopped identifying as trans because it's not an immutable characteristic like being gay, um, and certainly not like race, and therefore, you know, entitling people to the same suite of rights we give people based on those immutable characteristics. So it's yeah, it's been a sad, and you know, I think an example of this, I do um keep up with trans YouTubers sometimes just to check in and see how they're doing. There's one um in particular called Noah. I I was about to say a young woman, but I guess she would be in her mid-20s. I wrote a Substack article about her once, but she recently uploaded a video where she basically explained that she made a lot of money during COVID. This was a big part of it as well. People stuck inside during COVID. She made a lot of money on social media during COVID. She used that money to fund a music career, and that uh unfortunately left her in some debt, partially from no fault of her own, and probably be from some fault of her own, some combination. And um, now her YouTube uh channel is not getting the views that it once did, and she's hoping people sign up to her Patreon to try and help her out of this financial mess. But it's all very sad, and it makes me thoughtful about all the people who thought kind of during Peak Woke that they had these stable careers that they would have forever, and turned out not to be not to be the case. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah, I think people thought it was gonna go up and up because Noah seems to have used her social media money she made during COVID, during Peak Woke, to then do a tour in America that didn't work out for whatever reason. She kind of says that she got scammed by an accountant, but it's also probable that it wasn't as popular as she was intending, doesn't necessarily want to say that. And people thought this was gonna go up and up and that they'd kind of popped onto a trend that had no sort of end in sight. It's sort of like when you make an investment in a crypto coin and you think there is gonna be no ceiling, and of course it does eventually reach a peak and start to come down. And I and I think that it's um, I mean, we're gonna focus mainly on women in this episode. I do think there are always gonna be perverted men who are autogainophilacs, but at the moment, I think there's been a kind of um, which is a good thing, because it's been outed to a certain degree of well, this is actually like being a pervert, and because the Supreme Court in the United Kingdom clarified that uh woman refers to sex, refers to female, those men can't necessarily get in spaces like they used to. They don't have the confidence, and so I think a lot of them will just be like doing this at home, which is probably what some of them were doing before. And you maybe see um I haven't so it's hard, it's hard for me to monitor the popularity of that because a lot of the trans YouTubers that would get a kind of following were basically kind of girly girls that other girls could relate to, and they would amass these huge audiences, kind of talking about kind of um narratives of their lives, and that trans was kind of a main one, and they would talk about situations, and it really lent itself to this kind of long format stuff that women really enjoy, like 22 different parts on a TikTok and that kind of thing. But the the first thing that really made me consider this question of how unpopular it's becoming amongst adults is I came across this lesbian comedian, I don't remember her name, and I'm trying I can't find the clip, but she's got like long hair and a backward baseball cap. Often she's kind of the long-haired butch. And she's not um, you know, known to be a conservative comedian. She's not like anti-trans or anything like that. And she was at one of her shows, which attracts generally quite a you know, a higher than the higher um proportionally than the population LGBTQI plus audience, because she's a lesbian comedian, and she said, Is anybody in the house tonight? Is anybody in the audience trans? And nobody said anything. And she went, huh? She was like she said, Oh, that really fell off. And the audience kind of giggled. And I thought, yeah, that's so extraordinary, actually, for a lesbian comedian, that obviously we'll then have quite a lot of lesbians in the audience. Not one of them said, Woo, yeah, me. Because in the past you just got so much praise, you were so kind of shouting about it because you generally only got a good reception, you only got cookies for it, and you literally used to kind of get money thrown at you for it in 2020. And one thing I did say, I did notice in the comments was that um repeatedly, and I think this is probably true, is that trans identity has gone down, non-binary as a kind of subset where you go, oh, I'm not transgender in that I don't think I'm the opposite sex, hasn't um necessarily. I think that's still kind of got a certain currency, and especially amongst women, because I think what saying you are non-binary as a woman is saying is really kind of trying to signal um in a kind of anxious, self-conscious way, please only have certain expectations of me. Like don't expect me to be incredibly feminine, um, where you know I'm not going to be necessarily really effusive, I'm not gonna be a social lubricant, these kind of things. And if you are a brooding dike, which is certainly a genre that might not be a million miles away from this podcast, it is sometimes noted that you're not, say, the most effusive person. And in a way, it would be nice if you could signal that in advance. I also think that generally women do quite a lot of this signaling and lesbians get quite good at it. So I remember the Gaydar Girls Dating website when I was around 19 and 20. And of the different options you could choose, it would say, you know, what are you sexually basically? And the options were like top, bottom, versatile. And I kind of know that 99.9% of lesbians are actually versatile. And I used to think, why do they have these options really at all? When that's generally the reality. And I figured out that it was a little bit like trying to gesture towards someone of what kind of dynamic encounter you wanted at the moment. And it was about saying, like, this is who I am, this is what I want to set up, this is the dynamic that I'm interested in for this period of time. And I think non-binary does the same kind of work. It's about saying, forgive me for not being too feminine, forgive me for not being a social butterfly. Um, but also because I'm a dyke, not being able to get away with shyness, girly shyness will not be rewarded in a gender-nonconforming lesbian in the same way it might by a sprightly looking feminine young woman who's heterosexual. And yeah, I was I was very surprised by this, that this lesbian comedian had zero members of her audience willing to say that they were trans.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, I think that there is brooding dyke, um, very often autistic dyke that, you know, gets non-binary as a convenient label. But I also think it's plain and simple, not like the other girls syndrome. I think is a big among the straight women who do it, I think Helen Joyce spoke very well about this, where she said um she'd meet with mothers whose daughters identified as non-binary, and it's about saying, I'm nothing like you, mom. Particularly, she she said, particularly with mom is white, because that's not cool to be a white middle class Karen. I'm nothing like you, Mom. And then often by the time these young women hit ages 21, 22, they realize it's actually quite misogynistic and a bit backwards, and then they drop that label. So I think it's brooding dike for sure. And then I also think it's plain and simple, not like the other girls that I think all women go through because you don't see reflections of women with kind of complex internal worlds, and you think, well, I have a complex internal world. And then you get older and you read novels and you realize every woman has a complex internal world, and you are, in fact, very similar to many other women, and there isn't a body of a cohort of women that is the other girls. There are just human beings, and you kind of get over this. But I think as long as the non-binary label is around, you're gonna have teenage girls doing that because it's a part of being um a teenage girl generally. All teenage girls think that they're not like the other girls, or uh uh at least a small majority do, I would guess.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, I saw a really good clip the other day with Helen Joyce talking about how so much of the um children so under 18 identifying as trans was about not wanting to be an adult. And I feel like our culture now is so accommodating for that, it's not really necessary. It's kind of lost its uh functionality in that respect. Um I also think that it is normal, and I I either saw Helen Joyceful or Stella O'Malley saying this, that it's it's normal for teenagers to want to separate from their parents. That's the the job really of teenagehood and form your own identity. And for a while it was a bit of a trump card because a lot of parents didn't know what transgenderism was, and it was a way of going, like, you don't understand me, mom. You literally don't understand what I am. I am this thing that you don't know about, and you're gonna have to Google it. Uh and I think now that it became so mainstream, and in fact, lots of middle class people started transing their children because it was a way of, you know, pretending, I don't know, to have something special going on or whatnot, uh, without having to uh, you know, I don't think I think a lot of them wouldn't have wanted gay children, but you can there was a kind of special um kind of almost like special awards for having trans children. I think that has also really lost its uh its cachet, I guess, because it became so mainstreamed and supported.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah, there was a I'm sure you saw it, a viral video on Twitter of a woman who was at some kind of conference, and remember she could she confronted that that mother of the so-called trans child and said, you know, this is what a phalloplasty is. How did you feel when you were going through puberty? Was it a comfortable experience for you? And it didn't take very long of this line of questioning for that woman to threaten to kill her. Um, like, you know, and it is crazy how fragile all of this is. And I think that for a while, yeah, it was a thing for middle class parents, and and now it's being recognized as potentially child abuse. And I know we've spoken about it on the podcast before, but it's going to be very hard for a lot of people to admit that they were that they were wrong. I saw one interview, and gosh, I wish I could remember who it was who it was with, but it was a a mother, and it was a lesbian, lesbian parents of a son, and she was talking about they they adopted a trans identity for this little boy, and how she came across radical feminism and the radical feminist analysis, and how it took a very long time for her to realize that this was not right, and thankfully did it before any medical intervention was introduced. But there is going to be a group of people who it's going to be very, very hard for them to come back, to come back from this stuff, the the true believers.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Well, I think what they do is go quiet about it. I think it just kind of drops off, and it's that thing where they just you know don't speak about it anymore. And British people are generally very good at that, particularly the middle classes. So I think it kind of works in that respect. There's still some trans activists that are kind of in denial about all the wins that have happened, and that this really is over. Certainly in the UK, um, America, it seems to be more, a bit more state by state, but far, far less than it used to be, from what I can tell. And the other example I came across that I was so shocked by is I was on YouTube and I have a bit of a thing where I have a fantasy about going to live in a cabin somewhere and fishing for my dinner, and um, I've become a big fan of Henry David Thoreau, and he wrote this book about trying to figure out basically like um the human condition and existence by stripping everything away. And he went to live in a cabin for two years with only the vital equipment that he needed to live. Anyway, so this is what I like looking at, and I noticed that there was a YouTube by someone who at first I did think, oh, right, this funny man has gone and bought a cottage in the Scottish Highlands and he's doing it up and um you know got some chickens and a vegetable patch. And I thought, oh, I'll watch this because this is what I would in my mind hypothetically love to do. And I realized oh, this is a woman. And I realized this by the usual things, the body fat distribution, the smaller hands, and the gravelly voice that's been changed by testosterone. And I thought, this is so strange. This person's launched a YouTube channel, it's doing fairly well. And I thought, but wouldn't it do so much better if she was like trans man doing cottage core, trans man in the Highlands, maybe the only trans man in the Scottish Highlands? And there was nothing on it. It just instead it said it she would introduce herself and say, I'm a queer man. And the the channel is called, I think, Jude Rewilding or Real Rewilding Jude, something like that. And on her social media, there's just like the pride flag, but not even the trans flag. And I thought, this is so odd because you would just think I will get so much in the past, I would get so much more praise. I'll get so many more views by doing this as a trans man. And I just realized, like, no, this is not, this is not what it was. And I was really, really surprised that this was not being used as an angle at all, like, not even a one-off video where she was speaking about being trans. And all the comments seem to be um old people that live on their own saying, Oh, you're such a nice young man, this is such a lovely idea. I love doing my garden, and I have these particular flowers uh next to my hedgerow. And yeah, it is obvious that she's trans. And the other thing that I noticed was how similar her speech patterns were to third sector uh, well, basically third sector, particularly pro-trans organizations. She has the exact same speech pattern and intonation and this kind of mumsy um twee way of talking that Nancy Kelly has, who used to be the head of Stonewall. And I feel sorry for this person. She says that, you know, I think her parents have died and she doesn't seem that old. I mean, I would say she was almost 40, but given the ravages of testosterone, it probably means she's only about 26. And I, you know, going to live in Scotland on your own full-time. You're clearly someone that likes to be away from people. I think that's probably a bit unhealthy taken to that extreme, but there we are. So I sort of, yeah, I feel a bit sorry for this individual. But I just was so surprised that there's there's no videos about how I managed to get my hormones despite living in the middle of nowhere, and and here I am driving to collect my medication. Given that so many popular YouTube accounts for so long were just women saying I'm trans, here's me shooting up testosterone. And this would yield such um you know virality, the likes, the praise, the whatever, that I actually can't believe that I've come across a trans content creator who's not using that as an angle.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yeah, just out of interest, because I don't care enough to check all this like frequently or anything, but I had a look just now at Jamie Dodger, whose legal name is Jamie Rains or Rain, I believe. And she is um top trans apologist. She's the one who did the 90-minute video um responding to the JK Rowling essay that and that Margaret Atwood retweeted or talked about. And the line that she's always the good person to check to see what the party line is, basically. And her she's she's done a video called Is the Transgender Trend Over? question mark talking about these statistics. And the line is, it's because we're so oppressed now. We've all had to go into hiding. And I just I I find it um really funny that no one draws an equivalent here between this and homosexuality. There are gay men in Iran, there are gay men in Sierra Leone, there are lesbians in these places. For lesbians, it's a bit more complicated because you know, women can get pregnant and women are physically weaker than men, and there's a few more complications there. But homosexuality is a relatively stable phenomenon, regardless of whatever cultural pressures are happening. We are genuinely seeing people by their own volition um click off it, check in surveys that they're no longer that they're not trans, and it was a huge amount of people who who did not so long ago. It's not the case that surveys conducted in the America, you know, there's these terrified trans people that are saying they're not trans in anonymous surveys because they think Donald Trump is gonna come cut off their head or something. Uh, it's a totally ludicrous notion. And every other video, aside from this one, is about her status as a trans person in one way or another. And the views are really, really terrible. People are not um signing up anymore to this ideological turn. And I think it's gonna take some people a very long time for them to realize that. And just about the men, um, as you were saying earlier, there's the there's the women like the one you described living in the Scottish Highlands, and there's also uh the men who um were describing themselves as trans, they're all just being quite open these days that it's fetishistic. They're calling themselves cat boys or femme boys or whatever, and it's a form of sexual play, and that is being openly discussed, you know. And obviously, I disapprove of these fetishistic practices, but it is a sex thing, and they're being open about it being a sex thing. Uh, so it's it is over, and it's always so funny in in this debate and in um the debate about prostitution or even some debates about euthanasia, often on these so-called cultural issues. Um, if you name the problem, people call you the problem. So it's the TERF's fault that the you know the transgenders have gone into hiding or whatever, or it's the TERF's fault that, you know, people no longer approve of gay marriage. It's like we called out the problem, you created this problem, you actively advocated for the medical abuse of children. That really was the line. It wasn't sports. Sports brought attention to it for sure. It got men to care, but it was this medical abuse of vulnerable children that the other one, Noah, she said in her video, oh, you know, they've banned puberty blockers which have been working for people for decades in an R-approved treatment. It's like the the clinic in in the UK that was giving out um puberty blockers, they couldn't staff it because everyone quit because there were so many people who had ethical issues with it. Um, you wonder the kind of, but this is what's so sad about this particular social contagion and how it's different to something like anorexia. People can recover from anorexia. Obviously, sadly, a lot of a lot of people die. It's a very deadly mental illness, but you can recover from anorexia with this. These people have created permanent changes to their bodies. There is no reversal, there is no going back. Obviously, we can look at the detransitioners who very bravely are open and honest about it, but there's there's permanent, permanent changes that you then can't say or do or change. And um, it would just be a massive climb down to admit that that you were wrong and that people have moved on. And I'm also just thoughtful about the effects of COVID. A lot of a lot of this exploded over COVID when people were trapped inside their homes and basically got internet-induced psychosis. And now that we've kind of fully reintegrated into the world and there's some reality testing going on, people aren't interested anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

I think a lot of detransitioners have made it really clear like the warnings, because they're very outspoken about it. And I do think that's made a number of women think twice. But then also just seeing the car crash of women that do it, and then the fallout basically, the medical issues. I just went to check, and Alex Bertie, who was someone who was basically a beautiful young lesbian, got bullied at school for being gay, and then the school counsellor suggested that she was trans, and she was like, Yep, that's it. Um, you know, grew up with a single mum, went to college, I think, to do illustrations, wanted to be an animator because was very into video games. This is always like these kind of introverts that aren't the most social, and she seems to have completely deleted her YouTube. And I I honestly think that's because she went bold. And it's like there's no longer this cute young woman who, you know, again used to get lots of admiration and praise, got given awards, got given book deals, but is 28 and fully bold, fully. And I think now is just like well, seems to be a wreck. I mean, why like to delete your entire YouTube? Maybe she turns it back on again or something when wanting to. I was about to check whether her views had gone down, but it seems like the whole thing's been nuked. And that's the thing that there are so many that you'll just never hear from again because their lives have just been wrecked by this, and then they're kind of almost in a state of recovery. It's like, where did that was it Caden Carter? Where's she gone? Where's where's that poor nutter gone? The one that had 40 correctional surgeries and said, I still can't sleep without a TV on because I'm just anxious all the time. Like it's it's just it's it's so evil because it kind of lured them in with promises of almost like fame, recognition, and admiration, you know, do this publicly, and then that of course encourage that encouraged numbers of other girls. And then in the end, you just they seem to completely go offline. And I don't think that's because they've, you know, found the real meaning of life and are having a happy time of it. It's because they're like, holy fuck. And then they're just kind of dealing with the conge. It's like Milo from MTV, who uploaded a video for like all of three days where she just looked like an egg, like a bald egg at 24, and was like, oh, I just live at home and I just cry in bed and I'm just really depressed and this hasn't worked out. And due to testosterone, I think, yeah, was bald, was massively overweight, was no longer this cute, like 16-year-old dyke that she was. And I think that honestly, people have seen that and gone, holy shit. Like, if I'm not gonna, and and now that the um the you know, the recognition awards, career advantage, money, admiration has gone, I don't know exactly what the relationship is between the examples of the wreckage and then this going away. Probably just these factors are converging, but it's no longer a selling point as Jude Brewilding shows. It's just it's not, and I'm not really surprised that you know, I guess one of your options is going to go live in the middle of nowhere and never have to explain to people because it's not that you're explaining that you're trans, that was never an issue, it's explaining a lot of the time um your health problems, like dealing with your health problems, dealing with basically being disabled, like so many have um bone issues and just the amount of walking sticks that we used to see on trans protests. And then, of course, when you detransition, I guess you get hostility from the trans community, quote unquote. And at that point, yeah, what do you do? Nuke your accounts, go live in the middle of nowhere, try and just not talk about it. That's what Jude is doing, just try and not talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

No, it's really hard to because it's it's there's one layer which is human suffering, right? That has been brought about by all this. But there's there's there it's it's more than than sheer human suffering. There's there's something like there is an evil at play for sure. There's definitely something exceptionally dark about all of this, and I I think part of it is the sort of setting against the human body, the kind of seeing the human body, which is yourself, you know, it's part of yourself as a problem to be overcome, basically, and the kind of going at going to war with your own body, the kind of unreality of it, and and in the most sort of kind of intimate way, and in in your generals and in your like it's so it's so dark. And it I like they really didn't expect anything but praise for it. And I remember speaking of Jamie Rain slash Rains, can't remember, sorry. Uh she really parked your herself on your Twitter account, Jen, for quite a long time. She was really upset by a tweet you did about the fact that she had one of these. I'm really don't even, I don't even really want to call it surgery. It's this like weird body mutilation thing. And you and you pointed out that she had an arterial bleed that nearly killed her and now has PTSD where she can't have tuna salad sandwiches because she remembers her time in hospital and has like a PTSD attack. And then, you know, she parked herself on your account and replied to quite a lot of your tweets for a while in video, obviously never on the platform to give you an opportunity to respond. And then she would talk about, oh, you know, actual experts in this area, like psychologists and medical doctors, not those people in philosophy. I think they decided philosophers were the problem for a while, or she did between you and Kathleen Stock and a few others. But of like, of course, it was gonna be the people in philosophy that had a problem, like the people who talk about like, what is a category? What is a reality, what is reality, what is ethical and unethical, who what is the human person? Of course it's gonna come from philosophy, these sorts of objections, and it's hilarious that she thinks that there are no philosophical assumptions in psychology and medicine. But yeah, it's just it, there's a there's a there's a real evil to it. And I think the other kind of layer of evil is the vulnerability of the people caught in the in the wake of it. Like these are all, and even even the men, you know, pornography addiction is awful. Um having a fetish you don't have control over causes damage to the person themselves and then the people around them, and then the women um with their mental health issues and the issues with their bodies and you know, undiagnosed comorbid conditions. It's just it's vulnerable people who got caught up in the wake of this. And I think we've said on the podcast before, I don't think we're fully done until there is prison time. I think that was that is kind of what is required to to bring justice to this whole situation. I do think some people need to spend time in in prison for for the um the victims that were created. Like I do, I do see these people of of as victims.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, I agree. On the Jamie Rain thing. I mean, she did a video talking about how after her bottom bottom surgery, nice euphemism for gentle mutilation, the there was blood spurting from her crotch all over the nearest wall. I mean, I just I just repeated, I just described what she described, and I was like, this is horrendous. And also just how much are you like how much have you fucked yourself? Like that's the thing that these people were duped, and I guess that's how evil works, in that it lures you in with a promise and it's not real. And that sheen was so present um, you know, around transgenderism for a good decade, really. And then the people who pointed it out, like, no, no, no, like you're gonna get fucked by this, would then just assailed. Like the level of hostility, whether it was literally people saying they were gonna kill you or losing your job or being bullied or whatever it was, was just so immense, and it's incredible that now it's just kind of evaporated. I just I mean, I did think we were gonna get to this point um one day, but I think for so many people, because it was so entrenched, it was so hard for them to see, and I think that there's still some remaining trans activists that can't quite believe it. A lot of the time when they now interact on Twitter with gender critical feminists, is they kind of do that thing of like playing dumb because they kind of know they've lost the argument. I've seen that a lot, and they'll be like, What do you mean, transgender movement? It's just like, okay, like you know what those words mean. Um, and I really think that they were, I mean, I'm not exactly surprised, but they were bad at assessing reality, even in terms of like who will win. Like sometimes I think about it and I'm like, how did you expect this to like once you saw there was organized opposition and that this was really ultimately the key thing was about the safeguarding of children? Like, how did you think you were gonna um convince people when the kind of cat was out of the bag? And I think about it in terms of remember that show Hunted on channel four that we watched and like we got really into and watched like all four seasons over like a two-day period. Um, and for those that haven't seen it, it's uh it's like a I don't know if you want to call it a reality show, but it's like a setup thing where you have a partner on the show and you have to run away from the UK's intelligence services. And if you manage to hide for however many days or weeks it is and move around undetected, and you then at the end you have to run to a um a particular site with a helicopter, and if you can manage to get on the helicopter, you get like 100k. So it's like you versus these services. I remember thinking if we could imagine that we were on that show and we got to choose which organized intelligence services were hunting us, and let's pretend that each team that you could you could say, oh, should I be um surveilled and um you know ran down by A team or B team, and each one represents the side of the uh you know, transgenderism, the gender critical movement. Who would be represented on team A, which is the trans one, would be like three autistic lesbians with walking sticks that now are fairly immobile due to testosterone, um, three completely adult perverts who can't get up before 11am, who are addicted to pornography and are particularly socially poor and incompetent, and think everyone, they're very entitled uh men that think everyone else should kind of do things for them and they have license to go into women's places and all the other things. Um they're not going to do very much work. Who else would it be? I don't know, some some middle-aged men um dressed up as their wives that are also just kind of average men, versus then 10 women on the other side, three of whom are like lawyers, then like three incredibly hardworking working class nurses, and then like two lesbian activists that are uh yeah, pretty organized at putting on protests and events, and then maybe like a couple of writers and lecturers and journalists that are, you know, professionally very competent, and a couple mothers from Mumsnet who spend their time organizing four or five-person households. So you've got them, you've got the girl bosses, you've got the lesbian activists, versus the trans activists who are all riddled with mental illness and physical ailments. In this kind of, you know, bounty hunting, reality TV show, kind of fun game scenario, who would it be? Because it's your organizational skills and wits up against theirs for£100,000. Would you like to be against the taskmasters? Or would you like to be against the people who struggle with everyday, daily tasks? Who would be better at fighting for a particular goal given those people's differences? Who is it you think would be good at this task? Would it be the men in high heels that you could probably wander past and they could barely catch you in their heels and they would never want to take their heels off, and the lesbians that have deteriorating bones due to testosterone? Or would it be the women who were incredibly competent and with high organizational skills? Obviously, you would want to be chased down by the incompetent transgender team. And as soon as you knew who was behind each movement, I don't even believe that the trans team would be able to locate anybody in order to go and chase them down. And I mean, they basically in the show it looks like they arrest the person, but they don't really. Um they wouldn't even get that far. I don't even think they'd work out what region you were in, because all of that requires organizing skills. It requires basic competency, it requires doing things for yourself that aren't detrimental, like working towards a goal. And without institutional power, without institutions doing all the legwork for them, well, we are where we are, and it's over. So it was always clear which side actually had the more competent people behind it, and those people were motivated by wanting to save children. For women, there isn't really a greater motivation. It just became really clear that the gender critical movement was going to win. And as the transgender activists lost their institutional power, and it was only those people in institutions that were competent, once that started to go a couple of years ago, I kind of knew at that point. When people started turning away from Stonewall, when the media began to allow some criticism, I was like, oh, it's over. Because as long as it's just the men who say they're women and the poor dilapidated, you know, women involved with this who think they're men, once it's just down to them, this is why there was never a mass transgender, say, protest in central London, they could never be that organized. Never. I remember someone that I know went to a trans memorial day thing, and there were 11 people there, including her and her partner, and they were like gender critical women being a bit sympathetic to like trans deaths or whatever, of which that year there was zero to read out. So as soon as I knew, like, well, our side just has all the capable, talented, competent people. And the bravest people because they're willing to go against the tide. I really at that point was like, well, the end will be in sight at some point. And the end was in sight basically last year with the Supreme Court win.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah, I and I think people thought trans is the new gay. And a lot of people, um, I've talked about this before, but were on what they see as the wrong side of gay marriage and are ashamed about that. And they thought, okay, we're going to be in the next big social trend. And if you're just like a straight normie who works in HR, you don't know anything about any of this. You're like, okay, I guess this is the new gay. And then when it came to the sports and the medically abusing children, everyone went, oh shit, this isn't the new gay, and dropped it like, you know, a hot potato. Is that the train? That's the phrase. Sometimes I get my phrases mixed up. Anyway, they dropped it very quickly. And um then, yeah, that was that was that. I remember there was one particular trans court case. I mean, there's been so many. Um, I think it was like the trans officer from like Stonewall or one of these charities, and he needed like a support person and a dog and his mother and like a cuddly toy in order to like give his testimony at this trial or something. Like these are all people who like it's sad, like they're vulnerable, but these are not these are not winners. And uh once they lost, you know, Deborah and HR who went, oh no, like actually this is like not like the new gay at all, then that was then that was that.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Yes. Well, anyway, we have to go, so we'll wrap it up. But uh I hope never to be bounty hunted on that show by anyone with the competence of the likes of Ellen Joyce et al. Because I'll be found after like five hours and I will never get on that helicopter and win a hundred K.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Um apparently that show is quite fake. That's what people were saying. Like it was like it's like quite staged. Well, did they sign the did they decide advance who's gonna win? Um, yeah, basically, like apparently, like it's very, very staged. I was reading on Reddit afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Oh, well, I'm glad we didn't know that when we were watching it because it was so intense. We were enthralled. We were thinking we were considering applying because I was like, We'd so win when I had like a strategy plan and everything.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yeah, I heard there was one guy who like legitimately went to the Scottish Highlands and camped. And I think that once they realize like they he nearly won, and they had to like do something to like bait him into coming into a city, and like I think they realize that like actually, yeah, like if you let people actually play, it might be quite easy. You just go to, I don't know, the like the Yorkshire Moors and like pitch a 10, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing you should do. Um, anyway, thank you very much for listening. Check us out on Patreon if you want bonus episodes, and we will see you next week. See you then. Bye bye. Bye.