Episode 145: Could the Trans Pendulum Swing Back?

We discuss whether the defeat of transgenderism in the UK could be reversed? Specifically under our incoming new Prime Minister Andy Burnham, who is to the left of Keir Starmer. How are sexual politics going to fit in to Burnham’s Britain? Will the new Burnham regime embolden the possibility of euthanasia being passed on its second try? And why has the Labour Party never had a woman leader?

Plus, the claim Andy Burnham is in effect the UK’s ‘first female prime minister’, the particularities of the feminised, deep-seated beta male sexism of the left, Starmer's mistreatment of gender critical MP Rosie Duffield, and the uniformity and ruthless conformity amongst women on the left in order to survive politically.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Hello and welcome to Red Femme for our final main episode of the summer 2026. After this episode, we're going to be on hiatus until the autumn. So if you want to carry on listening to us, subscribe to our bonus podcasts on Patreon if you still want to receive weekly episodes. So, Hannah, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Um, well, for our international listeners, people may not be aware that we effectively sort of have a new prime minister. Well, not sort of, we do. In in the UK, um, Keir Starmer got himself embroiled, the current prime minister under labor got himself embroiled in a scandal to do with his appointee to the US ambassadorship being associated with Jeffrey Epstein. So uh a new man, uh a new prime minister is incoming. He is called Andy Burnham. He was the mayor of Manchester for many years and is uh ascending to the throne. He had there was a by-election. He didn't even have a seat in parliament. He got the seat in parliament, and he is expected to be elected leader of the party and therefore prime minister shortly. This would be the seventh British Prime Minister in 10 years, so not especially a stable democracy as it is going right now. Um, but people are saying this represents a new kind of epoch for labor. Keir Starmer was famously personality-less. Um, people weren't sure exactly what his ideological convictions are, other than being very bureaucratic, very um enamored with kind of things like process, incredibly cautious. Um beyond that, he didn't really seem to have an ideological strong position on anything. Uh, people are expecting Andy Burnham to be the new guy who kind of revitalizes the Labour Party. He is from the north of England, which is uh historically um been uh had Labour in power for many, many years, but has increasingly been losing um what they call the red wall to reform and other more conservative parties and positions. So the idea is that Andy Burnham from the North, the King of the North, is gonna come down and um kind of revitalize the Labour Party to what it once was. He is less personality less than Keir Starmer, slightly. He wears a t-shirt, he can tell a joke. Um, this is a lot more than what we ever saw from Keir Starmer. But I thought it would be interesting to review what this might mean for the transgenderism debate at women's rights and children's rights in the UK, given his very flip-floppy position on these things in the past, um, and what this means ideologically for labor. Uh, we successfully lobbied labor to take a gender-critical position. Keir Starmer famously said, a woman cannot have a penis. Um, what does this is this new sort of era of labor going to renege on that? Are they staying with it? There is, of course, an internal struggle in the Labour Party between uh people who are um social on the socially progressive, quote unquote, who are very anti-women and children's rights, uh very anti-the rights of the disabled um with euthanasia and other things, and then the what they call blue labor, which is essentially a more socially conservative kind of labor. And it's not entirely clear uh where Andy Burnham falls, so I thought it would be worthwhile discussing this. And for listeners who are before I get accused of vocal fry and faking vocal fry for attention, I do actually have a cold.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

So yes, poor Hannah, she will muddle through anyway. I uh yeah, well I don't think much will change regarding the trans stuff under Andy Burnham because it's very difficult to put a cat back in the bag after it's out. And the truth and reality about transgenderism is very much the consensus now amongst the population in the UK, and what Labour are primarily always concerned about, though they often get this question wrong, is electability. And that's really what changed, I think, the mind of people like Keir Starmer say. They just learned that they wouldn't be electable if they carried on with that nonsense. Andy Burnham, because he's more left than Keir Starmer, there might be, or this there would have been a few years ago greater pressures on him to toe the line, to say trans women are women. But he's also not been someone who has always been that progressive. Over a decade ago, he said that he came out against lesbians having entitlements to IVF, uh, because he had this mantra about, you know, every child deserves a father. So he has a sort of streak of conservatism to him that probably comes from him being, I guess, from a working class northern community, probably. Um but I do feel like, yeah, even if Labour, I mean, I don't think they will win the next general election, but even if they were to to ruin the day and, you know, win everything, it is uh, and I do prefer, I have to say, um, Andy Burnham's policies. He wants to nationalise um water and gas and electric, for example. He wants to devolve Westminster in a sense to other regions of England. So he says that he won't live in 10 Downing Street, he's gonna move 10 Downing Street, kind of, or his residence as Prime Minister to the north. I think all of these are good ideas because UK politics or certainly English politics are very, very, very London-centric. But I don't think there's a will to bring the transgender boogeyman back because it caused so many problems. There's such a consensus about it in this country now that that was all a bad idea, and we've all sort of moved on as if it was an embarrassing incident we no longer speak about. And when you shift the Overton window, it doesn't really matter so much who's in power. It's that those in power often do then just um become of the consensus, right? For reasons of volcanity and in general, just the way that people operate um in terms of you know, wanting to come across as normal, not unless unless you're a real radical, you know, unless you're you have a revolutionary idea to uh yeah, revolutionize the UK, which these you know, Labour politicians, uh politics are generally the furthest from that um that possibly could be. So given that they all are a bit weather veiny-y, they kind of toe the line, they want to be electable. I I have absolutely, yeah, there's there's no um there's no indication of a backtracking or a possibility how trans would sneak back in. And I think because transgenderism was so dominant, right, for almost a decade, not quite, I'd say from about 2014 to 2022, 2023, it's almost as if I think they're very aware that it's like we gave you everything. You had all this institutional power, you had all this influence, you were getting women arrested for the comments in their own homes, and yet, even if they don't have a thorough thinking on the issue itself, they're like, Yeah, but you fucked it up. Like we gave you all of this sponsorship, and yet um there were so many scandals, so many things went wrong, so many people thought politicians were stupid for saying women could have penises. A really good representative example of that is the recent interview that Camilla Tomini, a journalist with the Telegraph and GB News, did with the um health uh health secretary James Murray, where he uh basically admitted, Yes, I used to say trans women are women, I don't think that's true now. And she said, So you don't think women can have penises? And he said, No, no, I don't. I don't think women can have penises. She said, Huh, well, you used to think that. You're a very educated man. What was all that about? And of course, he can't explain himself, like, look, I'm just an ideological kind of paper soldier, all right? I just follow around what is expected of me, and I toe the line, and I don't really have any actual values or morals or whatever. It just my ideology is power, Camilla. Like he can't state that right. Um, but I think that anyone that followed West Streeting from Labour as the health secretary was gonna have to, they are the type of person who's already imbued to not contradict uh someone that was in your position formerly, someone who's still considered kind of your superior. And when Wet Streeting came out in, I think it was 2022, uh, you quite early on in the knocking down of the trans dominoes in labor, he said, you know, women don't have penises. I think that yeah, anyone that replaced him was just gonna tow his line. I mean, it is the line now. I don't in any way think these people have any sort of um, you know, real views. As I say, I think it's all line towing, but it's that that now this is absolutely the new anchored line to follow if you want to be taken seriously in politics in the UK. And it's why, for example, the Green Party will never win. Many other reasons, but because they have this bonkers line on trans.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I agree with you on the face of it, but a couple of things. One about the Labour Party itself, and the second on your point about devolution, which I'm quite critical of. Sorry to Jen and all the northerners listening, but I I hope to explain myself in a way that's not just about regional bias. Um, but I'm I'm slightly more weary than you are. I don't doubt that the institutional Labour Party as it is now, um, under Burnham himself, uh, his secretaries and ministers, whoever he chooses, whatever clique or sect of the Labour Party that is going to be in power is not keen on transgenderism. I don't, I don't doubt that. And I'm sure there are huge sectors of the Labour Party who recognize this is an election-losing issue and want nothing to do with it. Uh, that being said, uh, I do worry about the sort of morale that people who are ideologically convinced of transgenderism and euthanasia and everything else will feel um once they have a popular labor prime minister in power. I worry that that will embolden them. Keir Starmer was not popular, kind of because he wasn't a person who could be, because he wasn't a person. He didn't have a personality, no one knew anything about him. Um, he was this kind of technocratic um void of a person. Now there's Andy Burnham, he's northern, he's chancy, I like Oasis and the football, and I'm very relatable. And I and I think that the labor has been licking its wounds of about losing the red wall for quite a long time, and to have this northern, seemingly nice guy who's quite popular in Manchester itself for his work as mayor. He's got beautiful eyelashes. Beautiful eyelashes, yeah, quite popular in um Manchester itself for his his work as mayor there. I worry that this gives a certain goodwill to the left that they'll stop um licking their wounds and start thinking how we can take advantage of this because the Labour Party is not one thing. There are genuine ideologues in that party who really do believe in transgenderism and might think this may be their chance, which brings me to this idea of devolution. Firstly, I apparently the way in which he people are have been critical, the what the what he's proposed might not be constitutionally even possible to devolve to the extent that he wants. And secondly, it's going to cost a lot of money to do that people we don't have. Um, but a thing about devolution is that when you have power that is not centralized, it's less accountable. If, for example, decisions about um women's protections and domestic violence um services provision and um, you know, transgender healthcare stuff, if that's happening at a lower level of government, we're not going to be able to keep eyes on it as easily. Uh, so that's a worry for me. I think that a big reason why we were as successful as we were in the UK with um the gender critical movement is because there was an NHS, which yes, is quite decentralized, but there is an impression among the public that our National Health Service is doing X or Y as this centralized body. And I worry if things are devolved, um, we might not have that level of accountability. It's also just very hard to um, you know, when something makes national news or is on national television, it's much easier to commentate on for people to know about it. Um, so that is my concern. I'm also concerned, just in general, this thing of morale, I think, this very silly thing that Nigel Farage has done in the last couple of days of calling a by-election in order to try and um re-legitimize himself after concerns about his electoral finances. I worry that I don't think it's a good move. I don't think it makes the right look strong in this country. Um, and I think I worry that there's a morale high. And we have seen this now on euthanasia, for example. They are once again trying to pass uh so-called assisted dying in Parliament. Um, all these sort of ideological wins that they're trying to do. It could be that transgenderism is the one thing that they will not touch. But I I I am I am I am slightly, I am slightly worried.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Okay, well, first of all, yeah, you've made a good argument against devolving the powers of Westminster to other parts of the country, though I think it's more of just a relocation, but I I absolutely agree with you that that can cause then almost less oversight so people can carry on with their particular uh theme or topic in opposition to consensus of power. It definitely does um disunify things a bit. I was just gonna accuse you of being a southern pansy who opposes the rise of the north. Um Hannah has heritage in Bath. This is this is what I was gonna trace it back to and say you are betraying your ancestors of Lincoln, who at least live in the Midlands. But uh yes, I see what you mean there, though I think it's an interesting experiment. It will be shortly stopped, briefly stopped in 2029 when reform win, but it would be interesting for a couple years. Um on this thing of worrying about ideologues in Labour, I think anybody like that has left Labour for the Greens, or they left it for your party, and your party has now disintegrated almost entirely. I mean, we can just say it's you know it's been annihilated by itself, in no small part, partly by the cannibalizing effect of the trans issue. So I feel like everybody of that persuasion has left Labour, and I actually don't really see anybody waiting around to try and do that. I think there could be opportunists outside of Labour. So if Annie Burning gets in, some mad trans activist gets the wrong idea, thinks that this is going to be a great um opportunity again. And it may well be that some stupid commissioning editor in The Guardian gives someone like Sean Faye or Paris Lees an article thinking that you know the tide is the tide's turning back. It's not, and I don't really care if one of those weirdos gets another op-ed. Uh the annual op-ed where somebody thinks that um things may be rolling backwards. I think that would honestly be the largest consequence of that misunderstanding of what's having someone vaguely more left-wing like Andy Burnham in power uh would do. I agree with you about Nigel Farage, just to say I think he's having a sensitive, fragile moment. I don't know why he's decided to do this, other than I think he's um feeling the pressure, because everybody sort of no one really likes Nigel Farage. Everyone thinks he's a bit of a knob. He could frankly rob a bank and people would still vote for him because they're not really voting for him, they're voting for reform. And I don't think anyone is going to stop that train. And partly because it's so, unless there is something momentous happens, the security of reform winning in 2029 really means that even if Andy Vernon, you know, suddenly revealed that he was a massive TRA and whipped his top off and it was white, pink, and blue. I think that yeah, there's um whatever measures Labour would put in, and this is the same actually for euthanasia, though I think reform are quite open on the issue, as in they don't have a line on euthanasia, but whatever measures Labour put in in the next couple of years are all gonna be taken back anyhow. It's a little bit like why I didn't think um too much of the the one singular judge saying that the puberty blockers trial can go ahead. It's like, well, this is just one judge's decision. Immediately hundreds of thousands of people sign a petition, so there will be a debate on it in parliament to stop it. Uh, because by the way, in the UK, we have a particular government petition website, and if a hundred thousand people sign something on there, it actually does get uh brought up in parliament. And if it and if it started, it would be you know terrible for the children involved, but it would all be totally shut down within three years' time by reform. So it's interesting. I do think that from Labour's perspective, Andy Bernon sort of is um the man to send to try and almost do some apologism with the public on behalf of the party to say, look, guys, you know, you wanted us because we were left wing, we will nationalize stuff, I promise, and to try and get the north back. But it's all very too little too late. This really needed to be, well, um, instead of Keir Starmer, instead of whatever Starmerism is, a kind of big empty bureaucratic box, there's just no way now that he can reel it back in. But I can certainly see the efforts being made.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Oh, I'm glad to hear that you're the ever-optimist, Jen. I'm I'm less optimistic. I think that there's um a factor in politics which I call the crazy factor. Who looks the craziest? And I think for a long time um the right uh could say these left-wing people are insane. They think men can become women, uh, they want to abuse children in this way. Aren't they mad? Unfortunately, I think that they're losing the high ground on the craziness standard, um, just because of the conduct of people like Rupert Lowe, who seems like a mad person, too many people, and then this pulling this by-election. And I certainly understand his logic is saying, look, I have a mandate. You're going to try and um unseat me from parliament. Uh, but look, I've been not elected once, but twice. I clearly have a mandate. But it has been pointed out that this could entirely backfire and people could go, you are wasting people's time and money by doing this. And this is an attempt to be kind of cynical and dishonest about your finances.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah, you mean Nigel Farage there, and I totally agree. Oh, did I not say Nigel Farage? No, you said Ruth put low, and then you moved on to he, which Have sounded like you meant Rupert Lowe, so I just wanted to interject the.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

No, I mean Nigel Farage, uh Rupert Lowe, for the nothing entirely. Um, and yeah, I do think that if there is goodwill generated for the Labour Party, that the ideologues might try it. Um, they are certain, and we have president because they're certainly trying it with euthanasia, which I think is a comparable issue. Not exactly the same, but comparable. Um, but then again, they are desperate to get that red wall back. So I guess I guess we'll see. But I'm I'm a bit worried that the kind of high we are on post-Supreme Court when might be slightly petering out, um, just because I think that there is some goodwill being generated for the left again. And what these opportunists opportunists do is they wait for that goodwill to be generated. And we're not, we're not exactly looking great on the right at the minute.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, but as I say, anyone who even blew their nose in a left-wing way was completely carved out of Labour over many, many years under Corbyn. And then again, you know, Keir Starmer also throttled them within the Labour Party. So I'm not worried about it inside Labour. I agree that this erratic by-election calling by Nigel Farage does mean that the crazy factor could be shifted over to the right and that the media then can capitalize on that sort of thing. And then, of course, that gives clout to Labour. I mean, Nigel Farage just needs to read the art of war, and it's a very, very big mistake to respond to your enemy's pressure. And what he should have been doing is waiting for them to make a mistake and pouncing on it and benefiting from that. It is odd, I just think he's rattled, but you shouldn't really go into politics if you you have to keep the rattle inside if you go into politics. Definitely can't um let it make your decisions for you. So I know what you mean about euthanasia, but that's a very different thing. That the only reason they have tried to bring it back is that they feel that there's a legitimacy because it was never voted on finally, because they ran out of time debating it. And of course, of course, that was because of the lack of quality of the actual motion, and that it was very, very absolutist on the issue, and people were appalled that it didn't have enough safeguards. I think that's the only reason why that's coming back, and it's also because that has not been ideologically won in the same way transgenderism has. There's still a lot of liberals that think, oh, but you know, if we can alleviate people's suffering, why not? And they all, you know, trust the state and think that the state gets its processes right because the state has always served them. But that's far and away to the trans, you know, bananas of us. But yes, I agree that euthanasia, um, I don't think if it's discussed again, it would go through the House of Lords, no matter if it was allowed to be talked about for however long necessary. Um but yeah, the same way that I'm saying that I don't know if reform would roll back on that because it's just not such a big issue to them. Anything to do with transgenderism in 2029, however much we believe now it's all collapsed, it will be thoroughly like the corpse will be set alight. As will all aspects of anything we can call woke or DEI or anything to do with that understanding. Because I do think that their plan, certainly their plan if they want to maintain success, will be to come in and start basically carpet stripping institutions of everything that existed and they were beholden to before.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yes, I I I think that you're right. Um, ultimately, you sold me on how the issue is different. Um and I I think that there is an attempt to create a there's a sort of ideological um push behind Burnham, that is this northernness, this salt of the earth, this um I just want to have, you know, have a good day's work and and throw my keys in the bolt at the end of the day and go to the pub and watch the football, this sort of kind of northern menschness that I think is really what's being pushed. And I think there's a lot of, you know, these MPs are fighting for their jobs. They they really and losing the red wall um was devastating to them. I think that they see this as sort of their last hope. I mean, the fact that Burnham wasn't even an MP when people were talking about wanting to make him prime minister, and the this by-election basically coronated him into that position. People in labor really wanted him. Um and it doesn't exactly fit that. Yes, I'm a salt wort. I go to the working man's club and I believe in trade unionism, and I can't do the accent, but you know, down in the mines we were and all that, um, to believe that um women can't, you know, should share bathrooms with men and this kind of thing. I think that this seems to be their last um ideological push. I mean, the fact that he won the by-election, um, I don't think is demonstrative of the mood in the North on these issues. I mean, he's from there. Like his school, his kids go to school there. Um, he is known in the area. Um, and people were, I think, largely voting to unseat Starmer. Um, but uh there is a something to this uh where there wasn't, there was a nothing there under Starmer. And I but I wonder where and how um sexual politics is going to fit into all of this. Is it going to be, you know, because the other thing to mention, you mentioned his position on lesbians and IVF in the 2000s. I mean, he is also a Roman Catholic. Um, so this is might be part of it. I I do wonder how this is all going to fit together with the sexual ethics of it all, because um I think also to say about euthanasia, um, dignity and dying, formerly known as the Voluntary Euthanasia Society, has a huge amount of money. And I do wonder whether the money has dried up for trans, if there is exactly that same sort of lobby behind it.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, and just to say the Roman Catholicism opposition to IVF will be for people in general, I expect, not just lesbians, but I think that Burnham took that sentiment and that nugget, but then they apply it to the group that they can say it about, which at the time was lesbians and this idea that, well, every child needs a father, and da-da-da. So I think it's similar in that I don't believe he would come out against euthanasia, and you may well hold the sentiment for religious background reasons, he wouldn't come out against that unless, again, there was sort of an ideological niche where it could make a splash in the papers, or people would think well of him. Again, all these people are constantly um mediating their views with what they think they should say and how it will help them and whether it will advance them or not. And just to say, I mean, that yeah, this idea of labor being, you know, trade union-y and working-class people in the north, that was all true, but really that was all dismantled by Tony Blair, right? Bringing Labour over to the right. And in a sense, Andy Burnham, therefore, is the modern incarnation of that, in that he um he but he does the same thing that all Labour politicians do when they're trying to seem vaguely left-wing, is he kind of um gives these various I don't know if it's that he acts like a SOP, it's that yeah, he gives these various um signals, it's kind of like signaling towards the final few people that are still of that traditional left um vein within Labour, but they don't actually do anything for them, particularly. And I'm not sure that those people that really had class politics were ever very convinced of transgenderism. I think they probably just don't care about euthanasia so much. So I feel like even if there is an element in Labour that is activated, that gets activated and a little bit confident and animated because Andy Bernon gets in and they go, Oh, that guy's left-wing, and everybody on the left thinks women can have penises. It wouldn't have legs. And in a similar sort of way, I'm not so sure that uh the euthanasia rehash is going to be any different to before. It would take a huge amount of renewed momentum, I believe, for it to finally pass, given last time it didn't, because it ran out of time. But just to mention, um just to address this point of the sexual politics of the labor left now are just that we never have a woman as leader, we have full-term abortion, and we just generally have liberal sexual politics about you can do what you want, it's fine, marry who you like, uh, be trans if you want, but we're not gonna legislate for that anymore. Sorry. And I don't think it's much more complicated than that. There just seems to always be this opposition to women in leadership in Labour, certainly for the top job. It's kind of crazy that the Tories have had uh two female prime ministers now and are led by a woman, whereas Labour never has been.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Theresa May, Thatcher, Liz Truss. Oh yeah, shit, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I was so confident. Wow, okay, all right, three. I'd completely erased Theresa May from my mind for some reason. Odd, because I was um much more active in politics at the time. So yeah, the fact that they've had three, they've gone for the treble, and the conservatives are led by a woman today, Kelly Badenok. Look, there's just something about sexism on the left where the men on the left will not be led by a woman. They will not allow women in power. And it was curious how the day that Annie Burnham got elected, and then he, as MP, after being, yeah, resigning as Manchester mayor and running, and everybody knew this was to oust Keir Starmer, he then got the train to London immediately after the results, and the media were covering him live. And it was as if the king of the north is arriving to uh take back politics. It was very game of thronesy in uh in a modern incarnation sort of way. And he then took a photo with lots of MPs in Westminster, which by the way, I mean, I'm not a big fan of Kistarmer, but these people are rats. These people are disgustingly traitorous. Like the betrayal of, you know, even if you support Andy Burnham, just that same day going and having a photo with him. Like, do you hate Kistar? Like, do you want to dance in this guy's political grave? Like, what the fuck is I'm sure he's always been good for them, but good to them, given that lots of them were people that he'd yeah, put in positions of power as ministers. Anyway, so it was a group of women at the front of this gaggle of MPs filling at Westminster Hall, which must have been a lot of them, because Westminster Hall, having been it, is a fucking massive. And it was all these women around Burnham, and there was this idea then floated in the press that Andy Burnham was, in effect, our first female MP. The same way in America in the 90s, people said that in effect Bill Clinton was the first black president because he played the saxophone and could have normal conversations with people and is from the South, I believe. Uh, you know, so they weren't saying it literally. But again, it's always this thing where, yeah, you can have 12 women in power around them, but the but the main pole position has to be a man. And there's something about the depths of sexism on the left where that is never, for some reason, it is never ever challenged. And it just, I don't believe Labour ever will have a female leader until they become a completely irrelevant party and dwindle into the double digits of MPs and the low double digits say off in the future. Because then it would be considered we can let a woman be in charge because we're not going to win anyway.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think you've more articulated my distrust of these people and why I think transgenderism might come back under these people better than I could, which is fundamentally these men are deeply sexist. Um, these are really, really, really sexist men who, you know, I think for American listeners, um, and I and I do um take on that a lot of these criticisms of um Bernie Sanders were unfair. But if we remember when Bernie Sanders was trying to become president and he there was uh these class politics, a lot of white working class people in um the South were activated around him, but they weren't happy about the um kind of the social liberalism and the woke stuff, and he kind of refused to put his foot down, and then it was the Bernie Bros versus Elizabeth Warren Warren. This is very like um Bernie bro-esque, as unfair as um some of those criticisms were. I just think these men are deeply, deeply, deeply sexist. Um, and I think when you have um a party led by sexist men who, and by the way, just to say Burnham has flip-flopped on transgenderism quite a lot. I don't think he really believes anything about it in particular. I think that there is a chance. The only reason why uh people like Wes Streeting, who, make no mistake, has wanted to be prime minister since he left the womb, um, you know, were critical of transgenderism is because of their worried about being elected. If they feel, oh, we've done all this nationalization and we're ever so popular, and look, we have these new legs, and look, we've got back the red wall. Um, will they will they feel, particularly the activist wing of that party, they have the the kind of green light to go ahead. And are those men, you know, principled enough to say anything? No, they're really sexist men. So that would be my concern.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Well, I disagree. I just disagree because they're not going to push it, they're not going to get the red wall. And as I've said, every single person with at all left sympathies to any sort of radical or you know excessively liberal degree has been thrown out of the Labour Party, which hunted out, made to feel not welcome. So there just isn't a route back for transgenderism in Labour. I know what you mean, like maybe if they had a glorious renewal and they won the next general election, maybe they would do something to basically keep TRAs at bay from contacting them and say, oh, we've given you this little thing or whatever. But no, I mean, that's the wildest speculation I can possibly think of. So no, it's really dead, especially in the Labour Party. Um, funnily enough. And everyone who, for who trans was their raisin detra, has just gone to the Green Party. The Green Party is saying, we are, you know, woke on steroids come over to us. We want to allow five million migrants into the country every year, we want to say men can be women, just you know, the wildest, wildest policies. Of course, that's much more attractive to every unhinged TRA. And it's interesting that the way that sexism exists on the left, because you're right, they are it's deeply, deeply ingrained, sort of as ingrained, um, you know, if you could imagine a kind of hyper-misogynist aristocrat who makes, you know, comments about women being tarts or women not really having proper jobs, like the kind of um virulent um misogyny that you get of Nick Fuentes, for example, right? That actually, in a really odd way, but it's not so advertised, does exist on the left. But because men on the left are beta males, they don't articulate it very much. What they do through this sort of more beta feminine passive position is they almost kind of um operationally longhouse women, in that they won't say too much, but if you want to maneuver within a meeting or you want to push a certain kind of politics, they will in an indirect way often just shut you down. And it will be they they will not they will try to not give you an inch. And it's done often in these clandestine, as I say, weird ways of yeah, backdoor witch hunting and bureaucratic strangulation. And that's just because they are sort of weak, weak men that don't that don't feel the confidence to have the argument out loud and don't just want to do it in a brash way where they, you know, yeah, have a debate and maybe say some comments that people think are untoward. So it's done in this way where they quietly strangle women's presence on the left, make you feel not welcome, um, carve you out in any way they can. And it's it's um it's interesting the way that it's done because it is so real when you encounter it, but it's all so quiet that if you are stood two feet away from it, you would not assume it was there at all. That seems to me to be the nature of men on the left.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yeah, even this um flippant comment wasn't flippant, but this joke Kemi Baden Ock told in the comments about all the women having the same hairstyle, um, which is a joke and is very funny. But it's also there's something to that. There is this kind of ruthless conformity that you have to abide by um in order to get along on the left, which could mean something like you all get your hair cut in a bob. There's kind of this like weird unpersoning that goes on, and something that labor is absolutely notorious for, and what they've done now twice with euthanasia is they put forward a woman MP to be a spokesperson for an unpopular policy or bill and kind of throw her off a cliff. Um, I believe they've done this quite a bit with Rachel Reeves and her. I don't believe that woman knows very much about the economy, or you know, I don't believe that she's particularly competent at the job, but I think that they're just very happy for women to take the fall for unpopular policy decisions. I don't believe that this woman, she's called Lauren Edwards, who's now trying to get euthanasia done again, particularly is super animated about euthanasia. I just think she's the person that they've appointed because they do this thing of picking a woman um to suck up all the unpopular press.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yeah, because to them women don't matter. It's the same way that Keir Starmer has mistreated Rosie Duffield, our great GC MP down in Kent, I believe. It's uh, you know, and she says, you know, he would he never even would reply to an email, he's never sent me a text, he just completely stonewalls her. That's what they do. They basically do the the bitch version of everything. Sorry to use the word bitch, but yeah, they do. They they do it in a sneaky omega male sort of way, and you're right, they do um then think, oh, who's gonna be the full guy? Uh needs to be a full woman, because it's just that it doesn't really matter to women anyway. Who cares about women's careers? Anything that could malign a woman would feel a hundred times more inflated if it were against a man, a real person. And that really does seem to be the way that they're coming from. I'm not sure how conscious it is, but that's so alive on the left, including the reformist left. And this is one of many reasons why I hate them. And there will be some delight in that they will be crushed by the right because despite their best efforts and thinking that they are, you know, they're such nelly-know-it-alls, they will uh it will slip through their fingers for power will slip through their fingers for I think a generation.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yes, I I hope so. And it is quite crazy. They've never had have they ever had a female party leader? No.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

That was what I was saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

No, never. So not even a party leader, let alone a prime minister. It's um completely mad. Uh meanwhile, look at the right Maloney, the AFD lady, what's she called? Faisel.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Like Alice, Alice Faisel.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, Alice Faisel, Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen. Yeah, it's it's uh it's quite a thing. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Well, we should do an episode at some point on right wing politics and women, because it is odd that there's quite a lot of women leaders, and often um there's a certain overrepresentation of lesbians on the right wing as well. So-called far right, but I would just say right wing. Um it is very interesting and very uh I I do wonder what the left and far left make of it, because as I say, they really do um believe they have all the answers on every on the woman question, shall we say?

SPEAKER_00 44:45

So oh, their full rationale is that those women are evil bitches from the pit of hell. They just like work themselves up into this kind of hysterical hate frenzy, um, which obviously is easier when it's a woman.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Oh, well, if the left has, you know, the uh the antidote to women's oppression, I'm just surprised that not everybody's buying it. They should be surprised that not everybody's buying it wholesale and that women tend to congregate more on the left, but in terms of who's allowed access to power, it's absolutely the right. So all right. Well, thank you very much for listening. And as I say, just to reiterate, we are going on hiatus now for the summer. We will be back in the autumn. So if you want to carry on listening to us every week as Red Femme, please do sign up for the Patreon, patreon.com slash redfemme. It's 475 in pounds, less than a pint, and you will still be able to listen to us every single week during the summer period.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

There's also a massive backlog there of episodes.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

There's about 140 now, something like that, yes. So well, thank you for listening to this episode, and we'll catch you in the autumn or catch you on Patreon. Oh, and just to say, the Patreon episodes are listenable on Spotify, so you don't need to go on the website every time, it'll just be in your Spotify feed.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Thank you for listening, everyone, and catch you on Patreon.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Bye bye.