What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Mastering the Art of Genuine Salesmanship with Bob King: From Film to Closing Deals
Discover the secrets behind turning lackluster sales pitches into engaging, trust-building conversations with our guest, Bob King. A seasoned sales expert and filmmaker, Bob unveils the art of genuine salesmanship in our latest episode, drawing insights from his book, "The Joy of Closing." Learn how his unique journey from the film industry to the world of sales has equipped him with the skills to transform business engagements, master the art of closing, and create meaningful customer experiences.
We promise you’ll gain a fresh perspective on sales, inspired by the compelling narratives of con artist movies like "The Lady Eve" and "The Sting." Bob shares how these films fueled his curiosity about persuasion and shaped his ethical approach to sales. As we dissect the psychological elements driving purchasing decisions, Bob emphasizes the power of building trust, the necessity of connecting with one's intrinsic motivation, and aligning sales strategies with a company's core values. He also discusses the often-overlooked art of closing, reminding us of its pivotal role in creating change and adding value.
Engage with Bob's practical advice on crafting emotionally resonant sales pitches that captivate and commit customers. From navigating the pitfalls of competing solely on price to understanding the importance of self-belief and integrity in sales, Bob's insights are invaluable. Whether you're looking to refine your sales techniques, enhance customer satisfaction, or simply appreciate the intersection of storytelling and salesmanship, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and inspiration. Tune in, and take your sales game to a new level of mastery.
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I never told no one that my whole life I've been holding back. Every time I load my gun up so I can shoot for the star, I hear a voice like who do you?
Speaker 2:think you are all right. Everybody. Another day, another dollar. Another one of my favorite podcasts and favorite episodes, because it's my own podcast. What if it did work? Super excited to have with me a guest that's a master of one of the things that I love the art of selling. The art of selling, Bob King. Literally. He literally wrote the book on closing. It's called the Joy of Closing the definitive guide to building trust, getting the deal and creating happy customers. Bob is an author, closing coach, because if you're not closing, then you're not selling, and you're one of those people that says they hate sales. He's also a filmmaker, sales superstar who consults with sales teams and sales professionals of all types, from retail to home, sales to business to business, bringing one call close magic to pitches.
Speaker 3:One call magic. That's my revised, my modernized version of a presentation.
Speaker 2:Sweet man, curing slumps, boosting team performance and turning total strangers into happy customers, often at the very first meeting, his directorial debut I believe I saw this on Off-Broadway. Too many years ago was Psycho Beach Party premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and was still on the staff's favorite shelf until the last video rental store was shut down. Bob's won numerous awards from various employers, including Sales Star of the Year, many years running at his current position. How's it going?
Speaker 3:Bob, it's going great. I'm happy to be here. Thank you, omar.
Speaker 2:Bob, it's going great. I'm happy to be here. Thank you, omar. A man of many hats, a filmmaker, an avant-garde filmmaker A lot of people have seen the movie or heard of the film.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you haven't seen the movie, it's much different than the. So the ritual pubic hair shavings in the play are actually murders in the movie and there's a whole plot and it's much more involved. The play and plays great, and the movies, uh, you won't be bored. It's a totally different animal awesomeness now.
Speaker 2:Can people find it now on like amazon prime or what's the best?
Speaker 3:oh yeah it's everywhere, it's uh, it's everywhere, pretty much I even. I think you can stream it all on youtube if you don't want to pay for it, but but strandreleasingcom would be the best place to see it.
Speaker 2:Watch it Quit being cheap. Yeah, the way you live your life. If you're cheap, and especially in sales, guess what People are going to nickel and dime you People aren't going to be your customer, they're going to be whores. They're going to go after the lowest price. And, man, that's one thing. You can never build customers based on the cheapest.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a business model. It's not one that I'm particularly good at. But, even if that's your business model, you still have to close people. Just being the cheapest doesn't really get you the deal and usually doesn't get the customer the greatest amount of happiness either.
Speaker 2:Oh, but they're whores, man. They'll go. They'll find someone else that's cheaper. They'll only go to you if you are the rock bottom and the cheapest. Think about it. There's Payless, there's Kmart, there's Sears.
Speaker 3:But they were very loyal. Well, target started off that way. I don't know if they're still the cheapest, but that was a lot of their appeal was, you know, some kind of perceived luxury for an affordable price, and that's a perfectly legitimate business model, but it doesn't get you out of having to close the customer. If you want to be an effective closer, you still have to close them.
Speaker 2:I have to ask you this yeah, have you always been a closer Like were you?
Speaker 3:like no, I was trained. I've spent 19 years in the film business and I was hired five times. And uh and then uh, this thing came along in 2007 through nine called the global economic collapse, and the real estate income that had kind of kept me afloat went away and I had to figure out how to make money. And I went on a bunch of job interviews the one that paid to train you was selling solar power for a guy who could sell you a blender at the state fair on a day. You never thought about blenders and I knew he was up to no good, but I wanted to know how he did it.
Speaker 3:I love con artist movies and you know the Lady Eve, the Grifters, the Sting, dirty, rotten Scandals. I love movies where people do the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons, and so I wanted to know how they did it. And they paid to train you, and my rent was $1,200 and that's what they paid to train you. So I was in and I found out how they did it, and what was crazy was the things that I had to learn to earn a customer's business, to build trust, to create urgency and ask for the deal were all the things that I didn't do when I was trying to get hired in the film business, and it became really clear to me that this is what I needed to learn, which I did. I learned and mastered and eventually went to a company where I didn't need to use the sort of cheesy engage the customer's greed way of of earning their business that day. And I had to find other ways to do it, and I and I did, and so that's really what the book's about I never want.
Speaker 3:The funny thing about closing is and you know, you say sales, but what you really mean is closing. It's become such a dirty word because so much of the training on closing is done by companies that there's no legitimate like they have to train closers, because if someone was making an analytical decision, they would never choose to work with them. So it's kind of ironic that the companies that are the best at training closers are actually the worst people for customers to do business with, and I wanted to see that change. I never wanted someone to be trained the way I was, which was to use the customer's greed to make them to prompt an impulse buy that then they might later regret. I wanted to do what I eventually saw my role to be, which is engage my own commitment, engage my own belief that moving forward today is the right thing for everybody, and then work with my customers resistance to get them something they want. So that's really what the book's about, but I take on the stigma of like that we're closing.
Speaker 3:I love being a closer and I love people who can close and I think most people do. They just don't know it, they just want to. It's a part of sales that even the most seasoned salespeople often find somehow beneath them or awkward, and it's really the part of sales that gives you value. You know getting that. If you are an effective salesperson, you are a change agent. You are inspiring your customer to adopt a change, and the change is your product or your service. And if you want to be an effective change agent, closing the customer is the most important skill you could have Well.
Speaker 2:without a close, there's never a sale. Without a sale, you're going to go hungry.
Speaker 3:In most situations, most sales situations, about 10% of the people that you see are going to go forward, no matter what. They made an appointment or they walked into your store or whatever level of engagement they started off with. There's about 10% that are going to do it anyway, which is why most salespeople make more money than anybody else in the company because they can't really lose 10% of the business. But to get up beyond that and, you know, really start to be valuable and make money, that's when you need closing skills.
Speaker 2:Now, when it comes to closing, when it comes to selling, what a lot of people don't understand is when it comes to emotional selling, when it comes to pushing, when it comes to closing, to me, as long as I mean, you're solving someone's problem and this is what people need to understand, that's a good thing. Everybody equates selling, especially emotional selling, as manipulation. Now, to me, manipulation is bad.
Speaker 3:Well, I equate unemotional selling with boredom yeah that's true too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, if you are not and I'm really glad you brought that word up because if your sales presentation but I'm going to call it a pitch, because that's what it is If your sales pitch does not engage the customer's emotion from the very beginning and take them on an emotional journey that leads them to the point where when you say, are we doing business, they say, of course, who wouldn't?
Speaker 3:They want to say it, they're not always going to say it, but if that's not the impulse that you inspire, you're a presenter and that's not the same as a closer. Closing technically is everything that happens after you present price. That's what the same as a closer. Closing technically is everything that happens after you present price. That's what the act of closing is. But really it does start from the very beginning because a closer has a very different level of engagement with the customer and that level of engagement leads to a different kind of experience for the customer. When you're telling them about your company, when you're making them feel the pain of their current situation, when you're telling them about your product and making it a sensual, engaging, emotional journey that it has a beginning middle and end. That's really what closing is.
Speaker 3:That's how you create the conditions for a close, and then you still have to close them. But the emotions are a huge part of it.
Speaker 2:Bob, why are so many people afraid to ask for the sale? I mean, that's the hardest part.
Speaker 3:You mean after the first no, because they. I think what happens is, first of all, they don't know how to shut up. That's the first thing. So you let's talk about you're talking about closing, closing. So so you present price. Hopefully you stop talking, hopefully someone's told you to stop talking. If you don't stop talking, they can't say no. And if you don't pay a lot of attention to what they say next, then all this time they've spent listening to you is completely unreciprocated and they won't know why, but they will not want to talk to you anymore. They will find a way to get the hell out of there. So now, the hard thing about paying attention to what they say next is that it's almost always a lie, uh, and oftentimes it's a lie in the form of an objection that they present as a condition. So an objection is an excuse for not making a decision today, and a condition is a reason why that person cannot make a decision.
Speaker 3:I have a lot of B2B clients now, and a lot of times with B2B, you're not sitting with someone who can say yes. You're only sitting with someone who can say no, but they can can say yes. You're only sitting with someone who can say no, but they can still say no, and so that customer, if they want to say no, will tell you a no that sounds like a yes, which is you know, you've done a great job. Anytime someone tells a salesperson you've done a great job, that's literally the worst thing they can tell you. Or actually the worst thing is you're a really great salesman. That's literally the most insulting thing someone could say to me, and we can get into the reasons for that. But they'll tell you something that basically keeps them from having to commit to anything. And the reason it's hard is because you're going to take someone who just told you I'm not ready to make a commitment and inspire them to make a commitment, and that takes intimacy, it takes time. In the case of a B2B sale, it might take three or four more meetings to even get the person who can say yes in the room.
Speaker 3:But that should not stop you from making a full and complete presentation to the person you're presenting to, because, again, that person can always say no and when that person talks to the person who's really going to make a decision, they're either going to say you know, I've met with lots of people, but this guy, omar man, something about you know, what he had to show me really made sense for us.
Speaker 3:Or he's going to say, yeah, it's okay, price is a little high, but you know, I don't know, you'll see. And so that really makes a big difference. And the reason it makes a big difference is you only have the element of surprise once. The only time you control what that person knows about your company, your product, how it's going to work for them, your skills as an expert, your ability to fascinate them, is at that first encounter. And if it starts off with you being boring or uncommitted to the idea that moving forward with you and your company is the absolute best thing, then everything you're going to do is multiplied by zero. And unfortunately, that's how a lot of sales pitches go.
Speaker 2:Now, bob, in layman's terms, b2b, bob in layman's terms, b2b. Now I know it, you know it, and for my audience it's business to business.
Speaker 3:Now when it comes to business to business. Oh, b2b is business to business. Yes, sorry.
Speaker 2:I apologize. Now, when you're trying to sell, it's tough, though. B2b because there's a lot of gatekeepers. One you have to get past the ultimate gatekeeper, who he or she's been. Millions of people either call or go face to face hey, is such and such there, Right, that's one. Then you have to. I mean, you talk about a one step. Now is a one step process on a close. Is that B2B or is that just?
Speaker 3:the other way. It's typically not B2B, but it's amazing how improved a B2B salesperson can be by holding the idea that you're still taking that person, even though it's not someone who can say, yes, you're still taking that person through an emotional journey, You're giving them a full and complete show, basically so that they are inspired to go forward, instead of just, you know, let's get to the bottom line and you know, here's the numbers and do you want to do this? Okay, great, See you next week. I mean, that's how a lot of B2B stuff goes and some maybe it has to look.
Speaker 3:I'm I, I know the people I've talked to, but I will say, even my B2B clients have seen a lot of really great improvement in the level of engagement that they have with their prospects from where they were. I mean, what it is is a lot of B2B salespeople don't think they have a pitch. That's my favorite when they say they don't have a pitch and it's like, well, okay, what do you say when you first meet with a customer and then they'll show me and, and it's not that they don't have a pitch, they just have a really bad pitch.
Speaker 2:It's usually B2B. Usually the pitch is they're trying to sell supplemental insurance or whatnot, and a lot of times they're trained. They're trained in a way to be uninspiring, to be boring, because it's a cookie. There's a lot of things they're trying to avoid being.
Speaker 3:that would actually earn a lot of trust on the on the part of the customer. But mostly it's just it's so easy to be uncommitted and if you're not committed you're not going to inspire your customer to be committed, and and really it's all about inspiring that customer to make a commitment to change. So you have to, you know, and the other thing that's oftentimes missing from a B2B pitch is that part of the sales pitch where you have to make them feel the pain of their current situation because it's awkward and it's it's, you know, it's emotionally rough and it's right at the beginning. It's right when you first talking to you know you do an analysis, you probably provide a scope of work and then you're going to describe, you know, if you're smart, your their life without your product in a way that doesn't make them want to continue in that fashion, as emotionally as you know, immediately as possible, and then you're going to show them the pleasure of your solution. Really simple thing. Um, it's something that you can never do or never not do on a one call close, that you don't necessarily have to do on a on a non-one call close, but then when you start doing it, it seems to be very effective.
Speaker 3:So that's part of why I wrote the book, cause I think like there's. I mean I'd already started coaching people. You know, before, way before I wrote the book, and I just saw that there's all these great lessons from you know, when you have to earn the customer's business that day, or some manager comes in, you know, cuts price and steals your deal, you know you're a little bit more motivated than just a customer that may or may not call you back. If you know someone's going to take the business away from you, you're going to probably work a little harder to get that business that day and you're going to do all the things you need to do to build confidence, create urgency. You know all the techniques that are really vital to creating a one call close. Those don disappear even when you're selling on price.
Speaker 3:Look, the internet is a giant sell-on-price machine, right, but it also has typeface and company stories and images designed to tell a story that are really well thought out, that are very, very specific in order to create an impression and build trust with that customer. And so, and also, you know one seat left at this price is is, or one room left at this price. I mean, that's what we call creating urgency. That's just all it is. And, and you know so, they know the tricks. Why wouldn't other B2B customers? Or well, they're, they're more B2C. The internet's pretty B2C, but there's B2B aspects of the internet and they still use the same. You know techniques, and so so I think, uh, I think there's a lot of benefit for that type of of salesperson, um, to turn into a closer. Even if they can't get the deal that day, there's still 20% of their team that does 80% of their business, and it's because they do things that I'm advocating. That's my theory anyway. That's why I wrote a book.
Speaker 2:The book that he wrote what Bob King wrote the Joy of Closing, the definitive guide to building trust, getting a deal and creating happy customers. Now we're going to promote it and we're going to talk about it multiple times but really quick.
Speaker 3:Where do we find it? Where do we buy it? Because I think my book is on Amazon. So if you want my book and there's a audio book that I recorded, there is a um Kindle and there's a paperback. And uh, the first part of the book is, uh, kindle and there's a paperback, and the first part of the book is kind of a work biography of my autobiography or work memoir about how I came into the knowledge that I came into.
Speaker 3:So it's pretty exciting because I really was trained by scoundrels and then I worked for another company that had somewhat nefarious techniques and if you ever bought a timeshare or a car on a day you were just looking, you'll pretty much see how they did it, based on the early part of my book and then how I came into really being a closer and training other people and working for a very legitimate company and how a lot of the techniques that I used were valuable and some of them weren't. And then there's the bulk of the book is a how-to guide to creating one called magic, and that's not necessarily getting the business on the first day. Maybe it's creating the best possible first impression, but it's taking your customer on an emotional journey rather than just presenting facts in a price, and that's a skill that closers have, that that salespeople don't, and but anyone who's a good presenter can can do it if you're motivated. And and the motivate anyway, and then and then the last part of the book is how to create happy customers, and I think there's a lot of new ground broken there, because the name of the game now in the world we're in is referrals and repeat customers, and that is all something that five-star reviews that you have to close your happy customers on.
Speaker 3:They don't just happen. Even the happy customer doesn't just happen. So it shows how to be an effective member of your post-sale team, which you know. A lot of salespeople, once they make the sale, that's the last customer's ever going to see you and that's not really the best way to create a referral based business. So I tell you how to do that and talk about the motivation and how to connect with your why, omar, it sounds like you've sold stuff for sure. You're never tired driving home from a sale, right?
Speaker 2:oh no, that's like uh drinking a pre-workout when you get exactly it's like a magic carpet ride.
Speaker 3:Oh, completely, and so why? You know you don't have the money yet.
Speaker 1:Right, the money could be a long way away, if it even comes in. Yeah, you're not at the top of the leaderboard, and so I kind of asked the reader to say what is it?
Speaker 3:what is it about earning someone's trust that's so powerful to you? Because if you can connect with that, that's a great motivation well, what motivated me?
Speaker 2:heck, I've been in sales my whole life, but at an early age I was like super analysis by paralysis, you name it but I had this fear of rejection. Oh my gosh, I couldn't hear the word no, I couldn't. Growing up, I couldn't ask out a chick on a date because if she said no, that's fear of rejection. Not only would I be getting rejected by this chick, but I figured the Miami Herald would find out, the local, everybody would find out and I would look like such a loser. So to me, every yes I snicker because it just brings from like the zero to the hero. Also, it's that euphoric feeling that, yeah, you heard a yes, but someone believed in you, someone had faith in you, someone decided because we all have competitors, we all have competition, right, they decided to have the trust and faith that you are going to solve their problem, whatever that issue may be.
Speaker 3:You sound very connected to that and I'm guessing you are extremely successful in At selling.
Speaker 2:I used to be a business owner for 20 years so I would have to sell that way in retail and retired. And then came on retirement and, yeah, the best, the most fulfilling jobs have been selling because there is that. That's why you know, when your publicist said because there's two things I love selling and I hate people that say, oh, I'm not in sales, and I tell them really, so, okay, then don't do your work, since you're on salary, you're not selling your boss, you're not selling anybody. Just show up for the next couple of days without doing any work, week, month, and we'll see if you're not selling. Because you had to sell on multiple levels. You had to sell to get that first interview. You had to sell multiple people to hire you and trust you and you had to keep on doing your work by selling. We're all in sales.
Speaker 3:I think we're all closers too. I think if you deal with customers on a one-on-one basis, you have the opportunity to be a closer. You can close them on having a great customer experience, or you can close them on being miserable, and I think that that happens every day and it's a completely under-analyzed opportunity for people to be successful.
Speaker 2:Raving fans is what people need Now, when you said they don't follow up for the referral but it's operations that creates raving fans. Oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:Those people can, can help. We can put it in a context. I mean, that customer is going to react to stuff exactly how we guide them to react, because we're the ones that earn their trust, and so, like, the worst review someone can write for me is Bob's an awesome guy, but his company sucks, like that.
Speaker 1:that's the worst. You're like their hero and it's a rookie mistake.
Speaker 3:You know you. You never want to say to a customer that shouldn't happen. That's literally how to create a victim. You turn your customer into a victim. You're a hero, except for you're the one that also inspired them to work with your company. So, really, how big a hero are you? And meanwhile, that customer can never be made happy. When something goes wrong and I can take responsibility for it. That is the best news, because that customer will forgive me in a way that they don't really have the capacity or even the relationship to forgive someone else in the company because they're not the ones that earn their trust. And so we can be the incredibly valuable asset to our company and really to our customers, who want to never regret the decision they make. And so I think it's a really important part of closing is what happens after the sale. Not that you want to be overly involved, but you want to be a force for good the sale.
Speaker 2:Not that you want to be overly involved, but you want to be a force for good. Well, you also don't want to be the guy that says oh, that's not my problem, that's not my issue, that's beyond my pay grade, oh, that's not my department.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not a good way to be in the world. No and a lot of people love to do that. It's like okay, you got the sale. Well, how much money do they make?
Speaker 2:I don't think they're making the big bucks with that and they're definitely not going to get any referrals. They're not going to sell that person a second, third and let's talk about the real issue.
Speaker 3:They're miserable. They are expressing their misery to this poor customer who actually all they want to do is be happy.
Speaker 3:I mean the customers, even the craziest ones, really want to be happy. There's one level of crazy where they just want to extort you for, like you know, they want to write a bad review and extort your company for money. And that does exist. And you know, I don't know, I'm not the expert on what to do with those people, but the vast majority of customers want everything that you created, all the stuff, the wonderful world you created in your sales pitch, to do nothing but come true and be a little bit better. And so, at the initial meeting, you need to set expectations that your company can readily exceed, and you need to find touch points throughout the process to get them in touch with the fact that your company is fulfilling them. And that's really those are skills that closers have, that normal people don't. That can be such a valuable asset, a to your company, b to that customer and also to you, because you said you're motivated by having a customer say yes and trusting you with their decision. But when you follow up and find out that they're happy about it, the next 20 customers you see are going to feel it. They're going to feel your like sense of of satisfaction and pride that you know that customer trusted you and now they're they're, they're blessed by it. I guess is the word to not to be religious, but it really is a powerful thing, and so the third part of the book is really dedicated to that because it can be such a great motivation.
Speaker 3:And also, I just think people don't know how to get five star reviews and referrals and it doesn't happen because you did a great job. It does not happen. You have to close the customer on all of those things, literally not just writing the review, but actually you have to close them on posting it and walk them through it step by step. And if that shocks you, then you're not a closer because they don't owe you anything. They paid you and you have to motivate them by saying it's going to help other people. If you try and motivate them by saying it will help you, that souffle will fall. By saying it will help you, that souffle will fall Anytime you make your relationship with a customer about you. It's like a souffle in the oven that just goes and it will never, ever turn into a souffle. So you got to keep your souffle rising. Get it out of the oven when it's time.
Speaker 2:Well, it's all about relationships. Now the follow-up. Most people will only follow up hey, would you like to buy again? I mean, talk about mind blowing, just like hey, bob, how's it going? I just, I just wanted to check up on you. How's, how's the wife? Or Bob? Hey, you know what? I just wanted to tell you. Happy birthday.
Speaker 3:That's magic and it will. The best thing about it is it'll make you feel good.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but talk about people are so used to horrible like zero customer service, zero interaction. It would be like they'll be like. Oh my, I thought I thought he was just calling me to sell me something. Yeah, he actually just wanted to check up on me. He wanted to wish me a happy birthday.
Speaker 3:Right? Well, the first part of any sales meeting is a warm-up, and you want to find common ground with your customer, and the first exercise in the book is to pay three sincere compliments One to somebody you work with, one to somebody you live with or see every day and one to a total stranger, and not about their appearance, about how they express themselves creatively. And what that does is take the sales call from you know, what can we get from each other? To who can we be to each other, which is incredibly powerful. And that doesn't stop just because you know. It's actually enhanced by them trusting you and doing a deal.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of times, you know, if that's how you engage with the customer and that's really the core of why they move forward is that they trust you and you become an expert in their mind and you use your expertise to recommend the right scope of work and you give them a price that's fair and based on value and not being the cheapest. And then they go forward and everything works out not always perfectly, but certainly with the best of intentions. And everything works out, you know, not always perfectly, but certainly with the best of intentions and your company's sincere desire to make things right is the nature of your interaction with them, and not anything other than that. You're going to be interested in that person and you will actually just happen to be in their neighborhood and wonder how they're doing we're learning a lot from Bob the joy of closing, the definitive guide to building trust, getting the deal and creating happy customers.
Speaker 2:Now, now, bob, why should somebody they're going to be like? Well, zig Ziglar wrote all these books, the Grant Cardone, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3:Let me say I've never read any of those books all the way through I there's literally one sales book I've ever read all the way through and that's how to win friends and influence people, which is a great book by Dale Carnegie, and everyone should read that not just the salespeople, but every human being should read it, because it really is an amazing, amazing book.
Speaker 3:Every time I tried to read a book about closing or even like I ran sales teams and someone would say, oh, I read this book, you got to read it, and then I'd be like, yeah, that's the opposite of what I've tried to teach you, and so you know I'm like anybody else that created a company or a book.
Speaker 3:You know, I saw a need and I think that a lot of those books are really shallow and I was trained, you know, to stare at the picture of the car I wanted to buy and then use that to engage my self-will and run that over the customer and then close them on greed once I made them want the thing that I had, and I don't think that's the best way to do this. I think it's really about belief and believing in what you're doing and committing to the idea that what you have is valuable and doing it in a way that, with integrity and kindness, but patience also all that stuff, just so you can work with your customer's resistance and get them something they want. So it's kind of the opposite of all those books, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and also we both agree to this the hardest sell is you have to believe in you. You have to not only believe in your product, because a lot of times people well, there's twofold they don't believe in themselves. Oh my gosh, I hope to get a sale, I hope to be above the red. I want to make it another week, another month, another quarter. I don't want to have to be fired, I don't want to have to do my draw. And number two is the product is yourself. So you have to believe in yourself, you have to believe in your abilities, but ultimately you have to believe deep down inside the product. I don't drink wine. I do drink alcohol, I just don't like the taste of wine. That's like me trying to sell wine and not believing in the product, and a lot of people don't understand. You have to have faith in yourself as well as the product. Correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think a lot of that just comes from technique. I mean, I give you you know. I mean if you, you can't just conjure up belief. I think if you have technique, a lot of times technique is what creates that belief. And so I give you technique.
Speaker 3:There's like a seven step seven steps in a forecast is what creates one call magic. And if you really invest yourself into those seven steps and learn how to do an effective forecast a forecast is a one or two sentence prequel of what's about to happen. That makes waiting for the end sound like a good idea. So you know you're going to in the, in the in one call magic. The first step is making it. Well, there's a warm up, there's making the customer feel the pain of their current situation and the pleasure of your solution. And then at that moment the customer is very it's an awkward moment because they felt a lot of pain now and they didn't know they were going to do that. They thought you were just going to say, oh, you need this, okay, well, here's what it takes to get that and here's how much it costs. That's what the customer is expecting. They're not expecting an emotional journey and they certainly don't want to make a decision today. Right, when you get there and you need to overcome all that if you want to be successful, and so and so, and there's really good reasons for doing that, which we can get to in a second. And so when you get to that point where you've made them feel the pain, they're really uncomfortable, and so a lot of times they'll just go well, how much does it cost? Or something like that, and you're going to say here's what we're going to do. I'm going to go over the three most important things about this decision who's going to do it, what we use and how much it costs. I will go in that order and then I immediately start talking about my company, and that's honoring the commitment that I made.
Speaker 3:But if you have kids and they're like, when are we going to get ice cream? Here's what we're going to do. We're going to stop by the library so we can get the books. That blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're going to blah, blah, blah, blah and then we'll go by and get some ice cream. Sounds good. And then you start driving. You'll be shocked how calm those kids can be. And if they're not calm, it's because you're not saying it in a way that makes the end or makes the process seem like a good idea. And so you practice that skill and suddenly you'll start believing in your ability to pull it off. So I'm giving you you know how to do a company story that engages that customer's emotions, how to do a product pitch that engages their senses, and then how to present price in a way that makes your ultimate price seem like a great value.
Speaker 3:And then there, then we get to closing. All that's before closing. Then there's a long chapter on closing, because if you're going to write a book on closing, you better tell people how to close. And that's 13 closes and 11 objections, I think, and they're interchangeable. And the other thing that people don't realize about closing and I'm sure you know this is it's really fun. It's kind of the fun.
Speaker 3:The only parts of a sales call that are truly unique every time are the warm up You're getting to know a different person, so they're going to have different stuff that you're going to relate to and and what happens after you present price and how they resist and how you work with their resistance. That is different every time and it's kind of like the ultimate Sudoku puzzle. You know, it takes a lot of deductive reasoning and you kind of have to figure out what doesn't go in the square, to figure out what would go in the square, and and and a lot of intimacy. Uh, when that customer raises an objection, you need to respond to the objection in a way that shows that you're paying attention to what they're saying, without believing their lie or falling for the notion that okay, well, there's no way we can do this today, which is what everything they're going to.
Speaker 3:Customers lie about everything and that's just considered normal. And if you don't believe me, think about your last interaction with a salesperson and whether what you told that person, especially after they presented price, was the truth. Because that's just not a situation where people often tell the truth. There's a million ways to say no and only one way to say yes, and a lot of salespeople are very damaged by their inability to know a no when they hear one. And so you started the sort of round of area of interest with you saying why is it so hard for people to get past that first?
Speaker 3:No, and it's because of that. It's because the customer's lying to you most of the time and you don't know what to do. You don't want to call them a liar, but you know you can't just accept it. So it's really. It can be awkward but it's also incredibly fun. And you know I have a quote in the in the book that's, you know, from Hamilton. I wanted that song, I want to be in the room where it happens and if you want to be in the room where it happens, close someone, because that is the room where it happens now, what I love in general is I do believe, bob, you being a filmmaker has helped you along the way, because the number one thing that you keep on saying is you quit being boring.
Speaker 2:Is you quit being boring? Be engaging with the client through storytelling, because storytelling is connection. I mean heck, people tune out of their lives through storytelling, through watching the Netflix and the Amazon. That's what you're competing with.
Speaker 3:You're competing with. You're competing with storytellers, so you better be. And the story of your pitch is my life without this product is really shitty and only going to get worse. This product is awesome. It's the best thing ever. I don't care how much it costs, but it's so great. But how much does it cost? Oh my God, I love it. This company's amazing. They're just like me. Their core customer is someone I want to be, and this person works for them for the best reasons that I'm so connected to. And how much does it cost? Well, wow, that doesn't sound so bad. And then, but I can't do this now. It's too scary, but I really want it. Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 3:That's basically the story you want the customer to experience in any pitch. That's just. That's. That's what a pitch is, and there's nothing. Stories are. You know, even if you see a movie, you know love story is a love story. It's not some unique thing, it's just. I mean, the specifics of it are unique and fascinating, and you need those things to be fascinating too. But the story just needs fascinating too. But the story just needs to be functional. It just needs to be engaging and emotional and hit the right points. So you have to know what those points are. So it is like a movie. I mean, a movie is is really an emotional journey, always, uh, through the eyes of the main character typically and um, that's why I love them, and so I want to give customers the same experience. That's why I love them, and so I want to give customers the same experience. That's why I love selling. So, it's true, it's very astute of you.
Speaker 2:You're going to love this. You can tell I'm an arts and science and the broadcast guy. Would you consider it more character driven or plot driven when it comes to getting that close?
Speaker 3:What did Aristotle? I one time had a, had a film. I went to USC film school and one of the teachers made us type 50 times. This is when we were just typewriters. You couldn't cut and paste. Oh, don't worry, I'm old dude, I graduated without a computer. A quote from Aristotle action is character, character is action, like 50 times on a piece of paper. So I think the two are more or less interchangeable and they need to work together.
Speaker 2:Okay, completely, and this is what I love. Looking at the notes.
Speaker 3:But back to Psycho Beach Party. You know the story of so. Plays are really just oftentimes emotion and movies are very plot driven, right. And so when we had to make a movie out of psycho beach party, like the play is a wonderful play, that's like 10 o'clock on a friday night and it's just funny and fun, and but there's no plot. There's really literally no plot. I mean almost none and um for the movie, like we needed a plot, and so what better than to have murders, because murders kind of instantly create a plot.
Speaker 3:And and charles bush, who wrote it, leno, was too old to play chiclet. He played chiclet in the original production and he's an amazing actor. But, um, but, but he, you know, this is a girl in high school, um, and he wasn't in high school anymore, and and so he wanted to create a character for himself that wouldn't be cut out of the movie, and so he made himself the detective and so and so. But you know, that's a distinction. So plot's really important. How do we get into that? So is a character plot-driven, a sales call? I think it's plot-driven if they say yes. So I'm going to say it's plot-driven, yeah, because now there's more story to come. So I'm going to say plot-driven, but it's very esoteric what we're talking about. I hope your listeners are.
Speaker 2:They're like me, they're cut from a different cloth. Okay, good, I'm with Bob King, the director, psycho Beach Party, but, more important, the author of the Joy of Closing, the definitive guide to building trust, getting a deal and creating, what's key happy customers. Now, what I love about it, bob, is these techniques. Yes, they'll fatten your wallet. If you're a sales guy, your sales team will create happiness. If, if you own a company, that's well. All companies are sales driven, but also it for personal people. There's techniques outside of this that will help in relationships, negotiations, because we all have to negotiate, whether it's hey, honey, where would you like to go eat dinner, which is negotiation, and leadership roles.
Speaker 3:It is a skill that everybody has. You can't really function. So closing technically is what happens after you present price, but it's also, you know, getting another human being to adopt your agenda and think it was their idea, and that's a skill that everybody has to have. I mean, sometimes it's by threat, meaning, if you don't do this, here's what's going to happen. Okay, now, suddenly doing what you want is their idea, but it's not the most skillful way to accomplish that. And so if you want someone to do something, you're, in one sense or another, required to close them, and especially if you have kids, you know you're closing them all the time. It's just how effective are you?
Speaker 2:well, man, when it comes, uh, to little kids I mean, my kids are older now, almost 19 and 17, but they're the hardest when it comes to closing, especially when you want to get them to eat at a certain restaurant well Well, their mind's made up and they want they, they, they're laser focused and they want to go to the Chuck E Cheese, or they, they want to go to that.
Speaker 3:Well, I think what you're missing here is that they're closing you.
Speaker 2:Of course we were all born, if you think about it, great closers.
Speaker 3:Kids are fantastic closers especially when it comes to food Of course, a salesperson, an effective closer, is part six-year-old and part lawyer, right? Nobody wants to sign a contract with a six-year-old. But when you are meeting with that customer, you need to be about 80% six-year-old. So oh, we're not doing this. That that customer, you need to be about 80% six-year-old, so, oh, we're not doing this, that's okay. Let me tell you about what I got. We're not blah blah, blah blah, that's okay. Let me tell you about what I got. And then, when it comes to okay, we're signing a contract, that's when you need to turn into a lawyer and your tone needs to change and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But if you really want to see effective closing, say no to a six-year-old. But can't do it. Like a two-year-old will just freak out and throw a tantrum, right, but, but a six-year-old? Six-year-olds are ninja closers and so they will be like you know, oh, you know why can't we get you know, like you say, you can't get ice cream on the way home, and they're like well, I bet they have pistachio, that's your favorite flavor, or they have, or we can just look. You know they, they are. They are so effective because they're un they. No one said a lot of no's to them, right so far, and so they have. They're not deterred. Their enthusiasm can run free over your, your will and uh yeah, so it sounds like your kids are really good closers.
Speaker 2:That's what? Oh, yeah, both of them, uh, emotional they're. They've got the technique not only personal development, but business development but yeah, no, they're. They've got the technique not only personal development, but business development but yeah, no, they're. They're definite closers.
Speaker 3:No, now, bob, audible, you, you, we can find this on audible oh yeah, and let me tell you, recording your own audiobook is like the hardest thing.
Speaker 3:It's so much harder than you think it's going to be, but it's there and I did it and it was lots of fun congratulations, man, because, uh, my two books, I I went with the preconceived well nobody's going to want to hear me, so that's why congratulations on I was told that there's with a sales book you have to, and so I did it and and, um, I don't know if how it was for you recording it, but so you can only go three hours, or you get this vocal scratch which you know they can't use what you do and so you're only working three hours on it, and then I would come home.
Speaker 3:I did it and I live in Los Angeles and I actually installed solar power on the place where they did it, so they kind of made a nice deal for me there and and I, I, I would come home, you know, after working for three hours and I'd be like you know what I'm just going to lay down for a minute, and I would wake up, like the next morning that's. It takes so much mental concentration to read something. I also write a lot of run on sentences and, and I use a lot of hyphens.
Speaker 2:Never do that again.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you. That's how we actually talk in general you know, yeah, but but not written or spoken word voice. It's like it's like I would be like who wrote this, you know? And then like, all right, let's try that again. But yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I'm really proud of the book and Private Island Audio did a great job with the recording and um, and I'm really grateful for their team there who uh who really held my hand through the whole thing um, what's a just one quick technique or exercise that can give someone an aha from the somebody that's absolutely horrible in closing, someone that's new to selling which nobody's new to selling, but they lie to themselves? Which one aha that they can just turn things around.
Speaker 3:This is something that really is all types of salespeople. You're going to say something about your company and it's really important to talk about the why your company exists. It's something that people who own companies always do, because they know they created this thing to fill a need, so they're going to talk about that need in a way that the customer relates to, and then the reason is if you want to turn around, you know if you want your team's closing rate to come up.
Speaker 3:just fix your company story and figure out what the people who are telling great companies stories are doing that the other people aren't. But typically it's some tribal thing about the company that connects with the why that company exists and the need they were created to fulfill. That you can communicate in the customer that's meaningful to them. And then the two parts that I added are talk about your core customer in a way that makes your current prospect want to be that customer, so in an aspirational way. And then the last thing, which almost nobody does and it's so effective, is why you work for that company. Connect your reasons for representing your company to your customers' reasons for choosing your company. And if you do those things, you will have a great company story. And sales closers all have one thing in common they all have great company stories. Lots more go into it that you could learn a lot from too, but that's how you tell a great company story.
Speaker 2:The Joy of Closing, the definitive guide to building trust, getting the deal and creating happy customers by Bob king. But you know what I love your website of closingcom man, all you have to do buy 20 bucks. I I saw that and that was to me that's like a no-brainer.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's a little bit pregnant technique, you know, usually if I give them an hour of my time, they want a little bit more, but that's worked out really well for me. So yeah, if you buy 20 books on my website, you'll get an hour of my time and we'll work with your sales team to optimize their effectiveness. And if you want more, we can negotiate that as well. But an hour of my time can really really get some great results for you all for the cost of 20 bucks that within itself is a no-brainer in my opinion, because that within the hour, bob will teach you how to fish.
Speaker 2:He's not going to give you the fish, he's going to create a new change to your legacy. You will become the master closer. Your family, your friends, everybody will love you because you can treat once in a while All right, bob.
Speaker 3:We'll get you the right poll, if nothing else.
Speaker 2:Exactly Thejoyofclosingcom Now. Is that the way to hire you?
Speaker 3:I'm on LinkedIn as well, but, yeah, just contact Bob on there or Bob at joyofclosingcom is a great way to reach me as well.
Speaker 2:Now, besides buying the 20 bucks, no matter, buy 20 bucks, become a better, closer. Is there a way to now? Do you do one-on-one coaching only, or do you do a lot of one-on-one?
Speaker 3:Oh no, I've. I've consulted for various companies as well. A lot of times when owners try and expand their sales team, they hire a bunch of presenters great presenters, better even than they are at presenting but they don't have that faith in the company that the owner has. They don't connect with the good intentions of the company, and so a guy like me can connect them with it by working with the owner and the sales team and get the sales team closing the way the owner does. So if you've started a company and your sales team doesn't close as well as you, I can help them do that.
Speaker 2:Bob King, joyclosingcom. Go on it. Very interactive. Buy the 20 books, get the one hour. Hire Bob, become better. Do more, sell more, close more. Buy your book, download it on Audible or on Amazoncom. To me, I would do both, and that's my next thing. I'll show you I'd rarely do that, but being I love sales, I love selling any tool. That's my next purchase After we end this. I'm going to get it because I do believe in it. Now I can't wait to hear you because I know you're very engaging and you're not boring.
Speaker 3:I'm definitely not boring. I think you will. First of all, you'll enjoy my journey of sales. I think you'll get it. Anyone who's been in sales for a while which it sounds like you have, you will definitely get a kick out of. But the other thing is I really think, even if you already are a closer, you're going to feel so much better about what you do by connecting with the real reason why you do it, and that's what my book asks you to do, and I think it'll help you do that Perfect.
Speaker 2:Now, bob, is there any LinkedIn right? That's the other way. I'm on. Linkedin too. Yeah, what other freebies do you have? Do you post a lot on Instagram?
Speaker 3:So I mean I should, yes, and I have a TikTok account too that I like. Barely I put like one video up, but I have other videos I'm going to put on there so you can TikTok. It's joyfulcloser, I think, is my TikTok. I'm getting better at this stuff, you know it's you're getting there.
Speaker 2:But, believe it or not, man, this excites me, this episode excites me. You're going to be on, it's going to drop sooner than later. Like other people, that's my full disclosure with you. Bob, I can talk to you because we're both kindred spirits, we're both in communications. I wanted to go to USC and said I went to LSU, so I love you, I love SC, except when they beat LSU first game of the season. And ultimately, thank you for your time. But this is my final question, because we live in a TikTok society. People, if it's after an hour, you know we're cutting in on their other time, the plain victim tuning out all the other stuff. What words of wisdom do you have to that person that can't close, that person that just hey, I'm going to give up because it's not for me, selling's not for me. This, this is for someone else.
Speaker 3:Uh, I would say, uh.
Speaker 3:The secret you know people say, if you, if you, if you, if you never want to be without a job, if you want to provide your families in ways that you didn't imagine possible, the number one skill to have is is, they'll say, selling, but what they really mean is closing.
Speaker 3:So stop pretending that your job is selling and learn how to close and see where that takes you. And that involves commitment that you're not bringing to your sales job now, but that you can. And it might be because you're just working for the wrong company and making that choice is a bad decision for your customer and you need to change. But most of the time you're working for a good company or a decent company that has good intentions and a product that will serve your customer's needs. So why aren't you connected with it? And the reason is probably because you lack technique. And so in my book there is technique, and once you connect with the technique and how to do it, you'll find your why, once you engage in the process of giving your customer an elevated experience instead of just a scope of work and a price.
Speaker 2:Thank you. The Joy of Closing the Definitive Guide to Building Trust, getting the Deal and Creating Happy Customers by Bob King. This is a book, implement, read it. You see people want to read a book, like oh, I've read 50 books. Read Bob King's book 50 times and implement, implement, be the closer. You know cookies are for closers. Coffee, like in Glenn very Glenn Ross, is for closers. If you want that coffee, if you want to close, if you want the better leads, learn how to close.
Speaker 3:If you want to be of maximum service to your customer, your company and yourself, in that order, learn how to close. Learn how to work with their resistance and get your customer something that they want. Don't just leave them. The other problem is presenters are setting their customer up.
Speaker 3:A great presenter sets their customer up for a really bad experience, because one of two things will happen. They'll either buy on okay, you got them to want what you have, but you didn't close them and now they're going to find a slightly cheaper version that's probably much, vastly inferior to what you're offering and think they got a deal or they'll buy something for more money from someone who just is willing to pay attention to them and work with their resistance and close them, and so you're not really being of service by not closing that customer. That's the other thing about the person who's not closing now is just recognize the position you're putting your customer in. You're either boring them or you're setting them up for someone else to close them with probably less than what you're offering. So stop doing that. Take good care of your customers, work with their resistance and get them what they want.
Speaker 2:Three things we need to do Buy 20 books of the Joy of Closing, get the hour with Bob King, implement. That's number two. And number three with all this time that you're going to have with all these deals that you close, watch psycho beach party. I'm being directed it.
Speaker 3:That's right, hey, amy adams is naked, uh, at a hot dog stand. It's a very comedic scene, but, but mr skin sold more tickets than all of my filmmaking skills, by the way, and she's a wonderful actress, obviously, but it was her second movie, so she's a wonderful actress and she looks better than the noun, just like all of us.
Speaker 2:It's a funny movie.
Speaker 3:She gives a speech about being a decent presbyterian. After starcat rips your panties off, you'll get a kick out of that as well. But the whole movie's great and the entire cast became famous. It's a, it's a really. Lauren ambrose stars in it, who's on yellow jackets, and, um, lots of, lots of very, very talented actors beth, just say it.
Speaker 2:Beth from from um. No, and that's what's her character's name beth broderick and zelda, and zelda plays the mom, my other movie after that.
Speaker 3:It's called uh bad actress and uh that, and zelda has a Pilates machine, if you want to see that, and she's, she's the star of it and she's quite wonderful as well. Bob King's representing Mr Skin to yeah, who knew, who knew? That's what drives sales. But when it came out on Mr Skin, when 80s presence in Psychobetrayed, when Mr Skin highlighted that we did sell more copies than any other notable event in the history of that film. So there you go.
Speaker 2:Awesome Bob. Thank you for your time. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Thank you for the hour.
Speaker 2:Thank you for making me laugh. Mr Skin is a closer, that's for sure.
Speaker 3:I never thought I'd do this it's actually a really great thing because people buy things. It's really. It does relate to sales, because people buy things for a million dumb, stupid reasons. I also talk about this in the book. You need to look at sales pitch. A really good sales call is a limbic brain massage for the customer and you want to throw in every small stupid reason that that customer is going to say yes, from how you shake their hand, to knowing their first name when you get there, to maybe you went to the same school or maybe you didn't. Maybe the person wanted to go to your school and they went somewhere else and you relate to that Whatever it is it's rapport.
Speaker 3:It's something about your company that maybe that's veteran owned or something like that that the customer falls in love with and they don't know that's why they're buying from you. But there's always small stupid reasons that prompt that. Yes, when you ask, and you don't know what that is. And so if it's Mr Skin saying Amy Adams is naked in one scene, that is the smallest stupid reason to get someone to watch my movie. Great, I'll close them on that every time. That's that there's nothing wrong with that, because people do things for their reasons and you have to respect what their reasons are.
Speaker 2:Awesome Bob. Thank you for everything. Thank you, love you. Like I said, I'm going to download your book.
Speaker 3:Thank, you so much for having me Love you too.
Speaker 2:Omar, I might buy 20 books just so I can have an hour with you one-on-one. It's an investment. Thank you, brother.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thanks for having me it happen.
Speaker 1:you gotta take action. Just imagine what if it did work.