What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
From Introvert to Influential: Amanda Kanderis on Mastering Communication and Storytelling
Amanda Kanderis, a renowned expert in communication, takes us on an enlightening journey from her roots as a severe introvert to becoming a celebrated speaker. Her story is a testament to the power of adaptability and the art of connecting with diverse cultures, shaped by her upbringing across multiple continents. In this episode, Amanda offers a treasure trove of insights from her book "Talk Types," challenging traditional notions of storytelling and communication styles. Listeners will be inspired by her TEDx talk and her mission to empower others through understanding and appreciating diverse communication methods.
We uncover the intriguing dynamics behind why we communicate, diving into the realms of objective facts, personal experiences, and subjective understanding. Amanda shares her thoughts on how these elements manifest in our daily interactions and social media, sparking a conversation about the nuances of storytelling beyond personal anecdotes. By examining different "talk types," Amanda reveals how embracing these styles enhances our ability to connect with each other and understand the world around us. Through engaging personal stories and historical references, we highlight the importance of finding common ground and the art of persuasion.
As we explore the transformative power of effective communication, we draw inspiration from iconic figures like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, examining how their unique storytelling methods can inform our own styles. Amanda emphasizes the significance of practical application, urging us to implement what we learn from workshops and books to foster meaningful growth. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, this episode delivers valuable strategies for navigating the evolving landscape of communication, encouraging deeper connections and enriching both personal and professional interactions.
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I never told no one that my whole life I've been holding back. Every time I load my gun up so I can shoot for the star, I hear a voice like who?
Speaker 2:do you think you are another dollar? Another one of my favorite episodes. I'm biased, it's my own podcast. What if it did work? I've got with me a woman that has a PhD. Look at that. Not only a PhD in results, but an actual PhD, a professor, amanda Kanderis, professor of interdisciplinary studies. That's a wordy word right there.
Speaker 3:Interdisciplinary. I know, I know that has too many syllables.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I've got two degrees in communication. I only have that eighth grade level to communicate with people.
Speaker 3:Sometimes that helps.
Speaker 2:She holds a PhD in social science, comparative education, from the Graduate School of Education and information studies at the University of California, los Angeles. It sounds cooler saying it that way. She grew up in North and South America. You are worldwide Asia, africa, europe. I think the only continent missing is Australia, so you got to have you at least visited there.
Speaker 3:No, it's on my bucket list.
Speaker 2:Well, definitely. Well, amanda wrote an amazing book, since she's an expert at communication how what we say reveals who we are talk types Interesting, interesting. This is coming from a severe introvert, so let's discuss communications. How's it going?
Speaker 3:Are you the self-proclaimed severe introvert? So let's discuss communications.
Speaker 2:How's it going? Are you? Are you the self-proclaimed severe introvert? Well, here I'll let you in on a little secret. Yeah, for sure, I my tedx talk. I was such an introvert. I grew up, I was an only child, so single parent, and I was brown in south florida, so they they didn't realize that Hispanics were born here too it was very very southern back then and I wouldn't talk.
Speaker 2:So they're like oh, this kid Omar, we need to put him in ESOL English for Speakers of Another Language. And it wasn't until like second or third grade. Like, oh my gosh, this guy's speaking without, without an accent. We're doing an amazing job, so that's um, I'm a gay public school system for you. So either they you know, as you can tell, either I was born here or they really did an amazing job getting rid of my.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, I was um, severe, severe introvert. I I literally moved out of, I went to lsu because I thought miami, sucked, I'm like I have to leave this place. And then, when you're an introvert, you I came to the conclusion it wasn't, it wasn't there or it wasn't here, it was me. So, yeah, yeah, no, definitely. So when you talk about let me hear the, let's hear the origins, like that extrovert life of the party, your family, everybody, communication skills up the wazoo. It was like Ward Cleaver and June Cleaver and everybody just broke, broke out, or no, no, not at all.
Speaker 3:Broke out or no, no, not at all. I would probably be closer to the extreme introvert, like you. Um, for what it's worth, Although now, you know, as a, as a professor, and you know, I'm always in front of large groups of people talking. I teach public speaking, you know, and now people see me at a social event. You might think I'm the life of the party, but I'm, and then I'm an extrovert. It's just not true. But the origins of this book? So, as you mentioned, I grew up around the world and that meant every three years or so, moving to a new continent. And for a kid, you know, and kids thrive on stability. I know I'm a, I'm a parent too. That's a lot of change, you know, every three years.
Speaker 2:Moving from one thing is like moving like to another. You know, every three years Not only did you move, but you like one thing is like moving like to another state. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we're quirky and all that throughout the United States, but to move to a different country with different customs and different even dialect and just everything completely different than what we're used to.
Speaker 3:Completely different, from weather, to language, to religion, political system, culture, I mean all of it. So, yeah, um, what? What this did for me is it? It put me in a position where I had to I guess I didn't have to but to to make any good, have a good experience. Wherever I was, I um realized that I would need to learn how to connect quickly, because I didn't have years in any one place to develop long-term relationships. I had to dive right in, and so that made me, by default, a student of communication, just in my environment. Because I looked at okay, well, if I need to connect quickly, how do we connect? Well, it's through talk, it's through communicating. That's how we connect with people.
Speaker 2:We talk to them. What was the news, though? Were you an army brat, military brat, embassy, embassy? Yeah, wow, so you're in a little microcosm. You were technically on US land, us soil, whatever, that is no we weren't on a military base.
Speaker 3:We were living amongst the locals.
Speaker 2:OK, so you weren't like in the US embassy of whichever country, then Correct.
Speaker 3:We would, you know, to get to work, to get to the embassy. You know my dad who worked there would have to drive, you know, drive to the embassy. There was no compound, that we were all in a bubble. So, being that there was no bubble, I had to really dive into everything around me, the culture, the language, the food, I mean everything and so I wanted to understand how to connect quickly, and that quickly morphed into a whole bunch of other questions. So for me, I would try a certain kind of conversation with somebody.
Speaker 3:My preference as a kid I loved the deep talks. I wanted to know the meaning of life. I wanted to know what happiness was. I wanted to know why there was suffering. I wanted to know all that and I would. I figured well, let's skip the small talk. This is how I started out. Let's just skip the small talk and cut to the chase.
Speaker 3:I love the deep talk and I guess I just assumed everybody would like it. But the reason that they didn't, maybe people weren't engaging in the deep talk around me and my observations was because maybe they weren't brave enough to go there, but they really liked it too, peers or and adults. So I here I am in elementary school trying this out. It's not going over super well with the kids in the playground, it's not going over super well with my teachers or coaches or bus drivers and, um, and so you know, I start asking other questions like why isn't this working? And not that it never worked, I mean sometimes it did and that led to new questions.
Speaker 3:Um, why is it that we're different? Why does it work sometimes and not other times? Um, why do we have different senses of humor? Why is it that we can walk into a room, connect with somebody with virtually no effort and we can lose track of time? For an hour we can just make conversation and be engaged, but with somebody else, it takes work to think of things to say. Why do we have different tastes in movies, books, podcasts, I mean anything that communication touches, which is all language and even non-language, non-verbals, paralanguage music? We all have a different taste. Sometimes there's overlap and sometimes there's not, but it just didn't make sense to me.
Speaker 3:If this person was easy to talk to for me, why weren't they easy to talk to for somebody else? Aren't they just easy to talk to? Why is that person having such a hard time talking to them? Why, if this joke is funny, why to them? Why don't I find it funny? So I just went on for years with these questions, believing if I kept at it I could come to some sort of answers. And uh, ultimately the book is. Is is my set of answers, but it took me over 30 years well, it's 30 years of experience, you.
Speaker 2:You needed the 30 years to be able to write it, to be an expert, and it it. I know we live in a social media age where a life coach can be a 21 year old kid. That's right. That's right, you know. You know we're taught that you can just be a guru overnight. You know it's not about the experience and not about the years in service, but clearly I mean personally all the books out there in communication. You said it best All those years. It's not like you went on AI and like you know, chat, gpt oh, let's, let's try to be, or let me pay a guru some money so I can be a communication expert. Yeah, you literally had to put in all those years to become a communication expert. Yeah, the top of the thing, though, the talk type identifies three core reasons. People talk. Literally. To me, I just thought communication was to connect. So clearly, you know I was off on that. What are the three core reasons why we do talk?
Speaker 3:Well, so I'll respond to that with a couple of things. I think I don't think you're wrong. I think we do talk to connect, but we connect differently and we connect and we connect and we talk for different reasons. So I'll back up. In all of these years of investigation, I realized I came to understand that really there are only two fundamental reasons that people talk and I'll show you how I get to three. But we start out with two, and that is that the only things that people ever talk about. We talk or reasons we talk to share our understanding, or we talk to share our experience.
Speaker 3:And that's it. Nothing lies outside of that. But because our understanding can be objective or subjective, we end up with three reasons for talking. So I know that's kind of wordy and I can break it down, but those are the three reasons we talk. We talk to be objectively understood, subjectively understood, or to be heard, which is to share our experiences. Those are our three motivations and when we rank those by preference, we get six talk types and everybody on the planet is one of these six talk types. By preference, we get six talk types and everybody on the planet is one of these six talk types.
Speaker 3:And the reason for finally I could see these answers the reason we connect more easily with some versus others, and the reason that that's different for each person. It depends on how closely our talk types are aligned. And if they're aligned, then we're going to share the same talk goals and our conversation is going to go smoothly and effortlessly. But if we're trying to, if we're trying to communicate and trying to connect, but we have differing goals, it's like trying to get somewhere in the car by both pushing the gas and the brake. Eventually we'll probably get somewhere, but it'll take work.
Speaker 2:So a person's talk type, if it's like-minded people sharing, I don't know whether it's the, you're you, you're a professor. So undergrads, let's say fraternity brothers, they have the similar fraternity or sorority or any group.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:A million groups out there on every college campus. It's easier to talk and communicate because your talk types are similar, because they're like-minded people in the same organization, or it's not that simple well, that's what I would refer to as the more.
Speaker 3:That's the outdated model, that's what we've been taught for years is that similarity in culture, religion, hobbies, even language, invariably produces connection. But that's just not the case. I mean, a simple illustration would be to think of okay, if you've gone to college most people you know can relate to this you go to college. What about your college major? If, if, if, similarities in our hobbies or our interests Automatically make us connect better, well then we'd be best friends with everybody who you know who's in our college major. And we're not not at all. It just doesn't make sense. We're not not at all. It just doesn't make sense. So that's not, that's not. That's what we used to believe and many of us probably still do, but it just doesn't, it doesn't add up. So this might help, let me. Let me break down the definitions and give us some examples. So we've got our three reasons for um, for talking so objective. We want to share objective, um, understanding. That's uh, anything factual, factual talk. So, whether that's oh, it's uh, how, what? How warm is it outside right now? Do I need to bring a jacket? It's 75. Oh, okay, well, but it'll get down to 60. So, yeah, you might want to bring a sweater. Okay, it's just facts. Those are pretty light, but it could get deeper. I mean we could talk about the origins of the universe. Deep facts Either way, it's still facts. That's an objective understanding we're sharing. You know, I'm talking to be understood and I'm listening to understand objectively. If we skip to C, so I call these A, b and C. So A is factual. If we skip to C, that's subjective understanding. It's understanding too. It's understanding too. It's just subjective. So some things we can't measure objectively, I can measure the temperature with a thermometer or some other higher tech way of measuring weather, right, but some things I can't measure. If I say I had a really wonderful childhood or I had a really tough childhood, that's my understanding and you know you can't argue with it. That's my understanding, that's my takeaway. But it's subjective. So that's the deep stuff. You know, when we talk about the meaning of life, well, there is no objective meaning of life. So that's the. Those are the deep sea. Deep sea talks and it doesn't have to be all the time super deep. It can be a light sea, it can be something like you know what it was, it's been so nice living next to you, you know, dear neighbor, for 10 years. But I got it. My company's moving. I got to go with it. I'm really going to miss you. You've been such a great neighbor.
Speaker 3:That's also a subjective understanding. I'm sharing my understanding. It's basically a bunch of experiences or facts and I put them together in a conclusion. I draw a conclusion. That's my understanding. And a deep understanding requires a lot of connections between points and a light understanding just requires a few. That's A and C factual stuff, and then the deep Factual stuff and then the deep, heartfelt stuff.
Speaker 3:B is the personal experience. I'm sharing subjective, personal experience. That's going to be something like oh, how was your weekend? Did you have fun? What did you do? Did you like the movie? What was your favorite part? You know? Oh, here's a picture of my kids on my phone. Look at them in their you know their little outfits. Aren't they so cute? This is just. This is subjective experience.
Speaker 3:It's not meant to draw any conclusions, it's just meant to. When somebody talks in B, they're trying to be heard, they want to witness for what they're saying. They're not trying to draw any deeper connections, it's just to be heard, to be seen, heard and felt, not to be understood, just to be seen, heard and felt. And um, and that's B. So these are the three reasons we talk and we tend to have a favorite and a second favorite and then the third one, which is different for each of us. The third one we tend to not like much and not do much at all. Some people don't do C much, some people don't do A much, some people don't do B much. It differs for each of us.
Speaker 2:I figured personal experience would be huge for a lot of people because significance Look at me, look at what my child's doing, look at what I did this past weekend. Do you want to see pictures of my trip? Do you want to hear my opinion about my weekend, my experience, I mean, that's what's huge about social media is. You know, we people just want to be seen. People want that personal experience.
Speaker 3:We do. But but here's the thing With social media or with anything storytelling people think storytelling is is in the B domain. Like, I'm going to share my experience of my weekend or my trip to Disneyland or my whatever, but I can tell a story in A, b or C. I can tell a joke in A, b or C. I can put a post on Instagram or Facebook in A, b or C, post on Instagram or Facebook in A, b or C. So the medium doesn't matter and the actual activity doesn't matter whether we're joking.
Speaker 3:This is what's so mind-blowing to me about it is that it takes us away from the years of history and training that we've been taught that you know. We even call it social media, as though it's meant to share our experiences. But it doesn't have to. It could share our understanding and ultimately, understanding is a collection of experiences and information. It's just how we express it and why we express it that differs, but it differs significantly enough that it produces these six distinct talk types now, do you think, just on a basic level, we just throw everything to your stereotypical?
Speaker 2:well, let's, let's just try to connect, ie the easiest form of selling. You enter someone's room and they have pictures of disney world, let's say their family vacation in disney world. They have a poster of the House of Mouse. They might have a quote of Walt Disney, roy Disney, who knows Something like that and go, oh, oh, my gosh, you really like I see you're a connoisseur of Disney World. I love it myself. I've been there so many times, you know it's. I just was so blessed to live in Florida and be able to go there, and my mom took me to Disneyland and I've been at Euro Disney.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on a basic level, you know, we're the connection, or the when you say stereotypes, especially like you've lived all over the world, so you know, oh, italians, but you have to talk loud and you have to move your hands and and that's for italian, americans, or you know, if you're in rome or you're, you're in venice, venice, italy, not venice. So socal like that, and we just that's that trigger. Oh, you have to be very emotional. Yeah, that's just surface, surface bs, because we just want to, we just want to compartmentalize, compartment, put everything in a little box and say, well, amongst this person, we, we should be this way instead of just. There's a lot more communication than just trying to be a used car salesman or connect on a well, well, he, he must like baseball. So let's talk about baseball.
Speaker 3:Well, if we're doing sales, let's say, and we're going into somebody's house and we're meeting them for the first time and we see Mickey mouse everywhere, it's probably in our best interest to connect with what we have available to us which is Mickey mouse. Um, so we have available to us which is Mickey Mouse, so we have to use. You know, we have no choice but to use the content that is around us. But when, in your example, you started off with some B and then you moved into C actually and let me just give you the nicknames, that might be easier Um, and I'll finish that thought.
Speaker 3:But a is informing the factual stuff, b is relating, the interpersonal stuff, and C is meeting, making the deep stuff. So you started out relating and then you got to meaning making. So you started out by saying, oh, look at all that Disneyland. Um, I'm, I'm Disneyland over here. You're Disney world. Um, look at all that Disney world. That was a joke. Um, look at all that Disney world stuff. Uh, I love Disney world. Okay, the you know when.
Speaker 3:When you start doing that, I love Disney World, okay, you know when you start doing that, basically you're saying I can relate to that, I like that, I know that that's relating, that's B. Then you moved into C and you said you know what I feel really blessed that I get to live in Florida and be so close to that and that you know that's C. Now you moved into C. So I watched you just in that example C. Now you moved into C. So I watched you just in that example start with B and move into C. I don't know what your talk type is, but whatever it is, it's a reminder that just because we might have a particular talk type doesn't mean we can't do the other letters, so to speak. We can and we do. It's just we might get tired if we have to do one that's not our favorite. If we have to do that for a long time, we'll probably get tired.
Speaker 2:So A would be like if I threw something like well, what Walt did was he bankrolled. Walt Disney bankrolled all his money into his dream project, which was Disneyland out in anaheim, and nobody actually believed in it, not even bob hope. Nobody would want to invest in it. But he invested in himself and look what we have now. We have one of the world's largest corporations and it's something like that.
Speaker 3:That would be a right yeah, so that would be A with C undertones.
Speaker 2:Well, c because I glorified instead of just saying well in 1950-whatever. 57, 58, disneyland opened up to the public in Anaheim. That would be A.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you could still attach meaning to it in A, but it would be done differently. So instead of saying you know what?
Speaker 2:and nobody believed that you're getting C. You know, nobody believed in them. I think I'm more like a C, like maybe it's, I don't know whether it's the mass communication, the two degrees in journalism, podcasting, maybe being an only child and having to entertain myself. Child and having to entertain myself, Maybe that.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, we, we, we develop. I don't I develop isn't even maybe the right, the right word for it but our talk type preferences are evident early on and they definitely seem to be something that isn't formed by our environment, that they are innate, that we're basically born with them. Siblings often have different talk types, parents have different talk types from one another, and we can often fit in our home environment or not, or we can have a better communication, more aligned, with one parent or another, and so, yeah, and there's nothing wrong with one or another. I certainly think C is fantastic because it's my dominant preference, it's my favorite. So I love to do C talks whenever possible. I love to talk about the meaning of things, the significance, why it matters. Uh, and, and a dream about Disneyland and people not believing in it, and you know, underdog. And then, all of a sudden, you know, look at what it is today.
Speaker 2:That's an inspiring story about meaning Um, but not everybody gets into that, believe it or not, you know um, some people it makes uncomfortable to talk too much about meaning um yeah, wouldn't a, though, like if you're always like, oh my gosh, this guy must be like a regular Ken Jennings oh, mr Jeopardy, always, you know, mr Encyclopedia Brown here, yeah, I would think A would probably be, just because we are so dumbed down, like literally, especially when I told you I've got two degrees in dumbing down things and let's do one or two syllable, so to me I would probably think I would never go with A because, oh my gosh, especially living in the South, or I grew up in a working class neighborhood, it wouldn't be like, oh, look at this guy trying to throw his knowledge around. But, yeah, I can see. But that's just my personal, you know, that's probably my sea talking and wanting to go. Oh my gosh, this guy came out of nowhere.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right right, but that's and that's OK. That just means that that's your natural approach to to life and each of us needs all of us. I mean the world needs pretty clearly it needs these three because they're they're here and they've been here. I mean we can take the talk type lens and look at literature that's been written, um you know, hundreds or even thousands of years ago and still see it. We can still say, oh, that's a CB, ancient Greek play or that's. You know, they've existed for thousands of years. We have to, I think, believe on some level that there's a purpose or they serve a function.
Speaker 2:You know what, speaking of literature, though, there's a purpose or they serve a function. You know what, speaking of literature, though, there's this amazing book. It's written by Amanda Kanderis, available on Amazon, any anywhere else. I know Barnes and Noble. Barnes and Noble and Barnes and Noble Buy it either way, audible or audible. Audible too, do you do it? Yes, audible or Audible. Audible too, do you do it? Yes, yes, I read it.
Speaker 2:Okay, amanda. Well, after we get off, that'll be my purchase. I always am a believer in listening to two books. I'm a nonfiction guy. It's my C. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. So, yeah, definitely, definitely. I'll take a listen, talk types, so continue. I just wanted to throw a plug because we oh, yes, yes. You know, to me, I'm all about promotion, except promoting myself, which is weird.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, no, I. You mentioned your TED Talk and I thought, well, gosh, I, somehow, yeah, no, I I. Um, you mentioned your, your, your Ted talk, and I thought, well, gosh, I somehow. Um, yeah, I, I don't. It seems very familiar. I wonder if I even saw it without realizing that. Uh, what was the topic?
Speaker 2:stereotypes. Okay, yeah, all right, I was, I was a stereotype and you know just that I love it. I'm actually one of those that it's easier talking in a room with strangers. Yeah, my girlfriend was there.
Speaker 2:It was out in houston and it would be talking one-on-one yeah like, um, even I was the vice president of my fraternity, it was always easier talking to a group than oh my gosh. Like you know, that's the introvert in me, or the, the limiting belief who wants to listen to me. So, yeah, that probably that's why you know the, the sea. Yeah, probably that's why you know the sea of, oh my gosh, and that's why you know I would you know, when it comes to your introduction or talking about you, amanda's been everywhere. She lived in multiple countries. She's lived in continents, she has a PhD.
Speaker 2:Yes, these are factual, but you know, it's like you, but it's like you've lived everywhere. You've seen cultures. You've seen the good, the bad outside the United States, especially since we believe in the propaganda that if it's not the United States, then what the hell is it? We come off our cruises, our Mediterranean cruises, and our little scooters screaming USA, usa, you better speak English, you better, you better have a Sbarro's, you better have a Pizza Hut, you better have a Taco Bell, because we are Americans, and you know that. That's that's where, oh my gosh, you know, those french people are such jerks, or? You know, yeah, I always smirk when I went to. Well, it's like, yeah, you go to new york and you start screaming at someone in in japanese or whatnot, demanding that right, you follow their stuff and yeah they'll, they'll look at you off putting.
Speaker 3:Right yeah, no.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 3:So I just had to, I had to return the favor, cause I mean, it's it's, it really is, um, in communication, it's about hearing each other and understanding each other, and that's a mutual process.
Speaker 2:It's hard because there's so good disconnect when it comes to communication. You and I were a little older. We actually had to speak to people. I mean, we look at people now and you see people out on a date, these young people, they're across from each other and they're not. They can't communicate. They're texting each other back and forth. Yeah, they don't even know whether the date's going great, because it's lost in translation. It's through a text, yeah, I mean it's like it's right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's. It's definitely a different world from when we grew up. Um, but there is that thread of consistency from a talk type perspective. The talk types have been, clearly have been around for thousands of years and in a world, in a universe that's continually evolving and we are Species change. The brown fox that lives in the forest turns into a white fox over time through deforestation. Now the white fox is the only one that survives because the forest has become a desert, so now the white fox can hide in the sand. You know, the brown fox gets eaten. Well, everything is is evolving and it continues to evolve and the things that don't serve us disappear. But the talk types have been here for thousands of years.
Speaker 2:They haven't disappeared, so, and chances are they're here to stay what I love about your book, your message is and people don't understand that communication is what really? If you can understand someone's world, someone's world, it's not just only selling, but the art of persuasion, the art of not of understanding why someone thinks that way, yeah, why someone's doing that action, instead of just screaming they're, they're wrong.
Speaker 3:I'm right yeah, no, absolutely, and we don't take things personally Um once we start to see so, for example, and and from what I can tell from you, just from from our, uh, you know, short time, we've already talked. You seem like a CB short time we've already talked.
Speaker 2:You seem like a cb seem like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, you feel it. Oh for sure, okay, okay for sure, yeah, oh, my gosh. Yeah, but with my personal even, oh, personal experience, and you know, if we were out in the mediterranean, were in Rome, in the Eternal City, I would be just discussing, you know just the amazing. Can you believe that these Romans and Pompeii had all this technology back then to build all this, to build the Colosseum? And then, oh, oh, by the way, would you like to see the pictures of my last time?
Speaker 3:Exactly Total, cb, cb, I love it. Well, here's the thing. So if you're a CB and I'm a CA, so we're going to connect. So first of all, you know, in any relationship you can do one of those Venn diagrams and you say, okay, cb, ca, where's the overlap C? So if we meet at a party and we start talking, we'll probably very quickly gravitate towards our overlap, which will be C, and we'll find ourself in a C conversation and it'll happen pretty quickly. Anyone say you're a CB and you're talking to an AB, like, um, what's this? Peter Jennings, what's the? Alex Trebek from Jeopardy right? Or Bill Gates, elizabeth Warren, they're all ABs. You're talking to an AB. You're probably going to spend your the bulk of your talk time together in B, because that's where you overlap.
Speaker 2:Well, I would hope so, because you're speaking about a high super in my world. You know, highly educated, like Bill Gates, attended Harvard. I think the closest I ever got to Harvard was, yeah, I was in Boston Taking the T. Yeah, exactly. Or, like you know, doctor, you know all these Ivy League places. Yeah, columbia University, yeah, it was one of the stops on the double decker bus. That's right With Columbia University. But, yeah, yeah, no, no, I, I wouldn't want, I would probably also well, just are just who we are. A lot of times, I mean, if you are an a, you would still feel you wouldn't think like, oh my gosh, this is like bill gates, I mean yeah, the.
Speaker 3:So we can still be um, so we can still be respectful or even in awe of somebody's ability or knowledge or experience, regardless of, you know, A, B or C. But often we can have that kind of love-hate relationship with the one that we don't have. So for a BC or a CB, so basically the ones that don't have A, the talk types that don't have A, they might look at an A like Bill Gates and be like wow, that's so amazing, Like all of that, how does it's like an encyclopedia, you know, in his head, or it could just be the opposite. Oh, just total turnoff, Like ah, I don't want to hear it. Like when is it going to be over? You know, and we can have both of those responses.
Speaker 3:But to cycle back to the previous point, we don't take things. Once we learn about all this, we can stop taking things as personally. You know. Think about A and C. A's and C's want to be understood objectively or subjectively. Either way, they want to be understood. So if you are talking, say I have A, so someone's talking to me and they interrupt me, or I'm talking sorry, I'm talking and they interrupt me. I don't get offended if they interrupt me to say wait a minute, I don't understand. So, is it this or is it this? I'm confused. I'll be like, oh great, Let me help you with your understanding Because actually the interruption helped. It's aligned with our top goals that I want them to understand. I want to be understood.
Speaker 3:But if someone's talking B, let me show you pictures on my phone on my trip and you get interrupted, Well, you're not going to like that, because your goal is to be heard, to be, to have a witness. So what are you doing? And you don't care about what I'm saying. You don't care about what I'm saying. That doesn't feel good. That's the message. So, um, the the?
Speaker 3:The point is, if somebody you know, if you don't have a, for example, and somebody interrupts you while you're you know, um, while you're talking a, and says, hey, I have a question about that, and you feel, or let's fact check that, Is that actually true? About Pompeii, Somebody's going to be like, wait a minute, that feels like a personal attack. Well, if they're just an A dominant, like if Bill Gates asked you, is that true, let's fact check that Pompeii thing it would be easy probably for a, B, C or C B to feel like that's a personal attack, but actually when you think, oh gosh, they don't, you know, they're just being A, it helps, it actually helps. And the opposite is true. If somebody doesn't have B and a, B is telling a story and showing pictures of, you know, the kids on the phone or whatever, and it's it's an act of kindness to not interrupt.
Speaker 2:So somebody like an, a Bill Gates, then he wouldn't mind if I'm like hey, you know what, I'm pretty computer illiterate, I really don't know code. Can you break this down, the operating system of Microsoft or whatnot, totally, he would totally get that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Bill Gates is an AB. So if you interrupted him and said, hey, can you break that down, he would probably make a little B joke about it. Um, you know and, and, and, and then go right back into the serious facts about breaking it down.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, so since he has a little bit of B he, he could throw down like a story about him and Paul Allen. Oh, yeah. Or whatnot. When they first started, yeah, and then just switch back to an A.
Speaker 3:Yes, in fact, what's really interesting is if you look at old videos where you have Steve Jobs and Bill Gates together. Steve Jobs is an AC, bill Gates is an AB. They overlap in A, an AC, bill Gates is an AB, they overlap in A. But Steve Jobs will always, or invariably, point back to the meaning of the software and the programs and the design of the products and Bill Gates doesn't. He points to the. He might tell stories about the experience of the design or, um, people's uh, feelings or reactions, as you know, through the process, but the meaning elements he doesn't touch that. So it's interesting to see them kind of side by side and and really you can, you can see the talk types at work well be easier for them to hang out in the a too, because two amazing geniuses that created companies.
Speaker 2:You know we are who we are companies. You know we are who we are based out of both, and you know I don't care what tinfoil hat person says about bill gates these days? Or oh well, steve jobs did this, or that they moved the needle. They change, that's right what?
Speaker 2:how we live our lives absolutely, yeah, yeah well, you know what I also like about what you offer, because checking out your website is that you actually have workshops. To me, this, this is this is moving the needle stuff. This is stuff that can help people. Actually, communication makes the world go round. Communication can help you get that job. Communication can help you get a raise, more sales or whatnot. To me, your workshops are worth a lot more than paying some guru a bunch of money so we can buy merch and live and be and go. Oh my gosh, I did this weekend seminar in La Jolla or wherever.
Speaker 3:Right, right, no, I mean, I think it's kind of funny because it's so big communication, its bigness, I think, is so overwhelming as to be unfathomable. It really is like a fish talking about water, fish talking about water. Because if, if, in fact, there are really only three reasons fundamentally that people talk and we have our preferences, that form six talk types, and everyone on the planet is one of these types, you know, can be categorized as one of these types, as one of these types, that fundamentally changes everything, everything that communication touches. And what does communication touch? Everything, everything, everything from our most intimate relationships to the information and entertainment that we consume, to our workspaces, our bosses and employee relationship, medical, even our self-talk, our dreams. It's communication with the self. It's just, it's never. I mean, it's not, there's no end, it's infinite.
Speaker 2:Well, if someone lives in A and I'm coming at them with C, there's going to be a major disconnect.
Speaker 3:Well, so here's the thing. Yes, and possibly each of us has a talk type where we have a dominant and a secondary preference. So let's say you're a CB and somebody is a dominant A. Well, if they're an AB, that'll probably be the hardest, because B is both of your secondary and each of your dominants are different. But if the person's an AC, it'll be a little bit easier because they're secondary, is your dominant, so it'll be a little bit closer to home for you.
Speaker 3:Um, but but yeah, it's, it's hard when our talk, we're taught you know we're talking with someone who, for for them, their dominant is is, um, a category we don't, we don't have at all. That's, that's the hardest. But that's where the education can come in and the the practice and some of the tools and and ultimately, once we learn these talk types, it's I mean, it's life-changing, it's empowering, because everything we do is impacted. We can go to the grocery store or the bank and have a better experience with someone you know. The person who's ringing up our groceries or the bank teller, someone we just have an experience or a conversation with for just a few moments, can be. It can be that much better. Or even the big decisions that we make who to marry, where to live, the career to go into. We can make better decisions when we're more informed.
Speaker 2:Always.
Speaker 3:Always.
Speaker 2:We're talking to Amanda EHD In communication, best-selling on Amazon, best-selling author Of talk types. Not only Does she have the book, which you can buy at Amazon and Barnes and Noble, download it, listen to it on Audible, especially when you're going to work, you're commuting, you live in SoCal like Amanda and you're just going like five miles away and it takes you like two hours. You can listen to the book, you can take notes and listen to something over and over and implement, write it down, because you know a lot of people are like well, I read 20 books but you didn't implement anything. Who cares?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. We're not living in an era of information poverty. We're living in an era of information poverty. We're living in an era of application poverty.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly. There was a guy I know and he would always text me so what book do I need to read now? What book do I need to read now? Over and over. And he even like, like my book. What if it did work? He said it didn't work. Well, it's because you didn't implement it. But after a while, after months of giving him different books, I finally broke it down. I'm like all these books are boring, you don't implement. Why don't you just read something or listen to something, that some fiction, that that you know that you'll enjoy it? Because you're reading all this stuff and not implementing anything. And that's the story of pretty much a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, absolutely better to just do something you enjoy, um, and at least you'll be, you'll be present for it.
Speaker 2:Until you're ready.
Speaker 3:Until you're ready for the other stuff.
Speaker 2:Read it a bunch of times, take the notes, implement. Don't be like, oh well, I read it, it was good. What did you get out of it? Well, what's my next book? What's Audible telling me? You know what's the suggestion? The suggestion is keep on reading. The suggestion is literally do the work. Yeah, work, amanda. How do they find you? Because how do they book you for a seminar? These workshops, these personal coaching I love that these workshops, these personal coaching.
Speaker 3:I love that, yeah, yeah. So go to amandacandariscom and there's a, there's a brief form. Just fill that out, then that'll put you in contact with me. You can get the book on uh, amazon and barnes and noble and audible and uh I want you to.
Speaker 2:Uh, I know you have a one-day seminar and three-day workshop. Do you space these out or the are the? Are they through zoom, or do we have to go to socal?
Speaker 3:no, no, everything can be done on zoom these days. Yeah, I, I love the in-person, I act, I'm very much, you know, high touch in a high-tech world, but but the world that we live in is is very much a digital world, and I'm okay with that too. And, honestly, like you said, as long as we're implementing what we learn, then the learning can happen in any format and we can be touched by it.
Speaker 2:So and obviously anybody can hire you because it's communication. You don't have to be a ceo, cfo, you can be everybody and anybody, because if you can communicate with people, you can become way more successful in anything that you do yeah, no, that's right.
Speaker 3:I mean, the communication is how we interface with the world and with ourselves. It, it literally does touch everything that we do and um, and so everybody, everybody needs, um, you know, I, I, we all need a greater understanding of um, of anything that we want to improve, anything that we want to just get better at and find more meaning, purpose, application. Yeah, so that's the first step building that vocabulary and then applying it.
Speaker 2:Well, here's my question to you, amanda. Oh, I'm a person I'm stuck in my. I'm so set in my ways. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I don't need to. Oh, I'm not in sales, I don't need to communicate. I have a job in a corporation. I'm not in sales, I don't need to communicate. I have a job in a corporation. I'm sorry, what do I need to learn about communication? Why do I want to communicate better? I mean, either you like me or you don't like me. What would you tell that person? What words of wisdom would you tell them?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, at the end of the day, of course you know we can teach old dogs new tricks, but it is best if the old dog wants to learn the new tricks. The very first thing is really, if the student isn't willing, it's going to be, you know, a lot more challenging. But that said, people we all, I think we don't see sometimes the value in things that we don't know, that we don't know Until we learn something and we start to actually see its utility in our lives. Then we become the cheerleader for it and we say, oh, wow, it's hard for that person probably to I get it. They don't know. They don't know what the benefits would be because they they don't understand the model yet, they're not familiar with it and they don't see the effects. But the effects are everything from.
Speaker 3:You know we talked about decisions. Ray Dalio says, famous for saying the quality of our life ultimately depends on the quality of our decisions. And the talk type model helps us to make better decisions more quickly. We don't have to go on six first dates with the same person. We can understand, learn the talk type model and say, okay, yeah, you're a CB, probably not going to be the best match with most ABs? Probably not, but maybe you will. You get to decide. Maybe you just have an affinity for ABs and you just love them. For whatever reason, you admire them. You know, who knows, people are different, a lot of people that might not, that match might not work for, but for you that might be exactly what you're looking for. So then you can go on a date, you can um and and you say, oh, this person isn't an AB, I really want to be with an AB, okay. Well then, it was a great dinner, but I'm going to keep looking. You know, in the workplace we have conflict that happens, and now we can resolve it better because we realize that we all have different needs and so much conflict happens when our needs either aren't being met or there's a perception that they're not being met. So then we can again use the model to help fix those things.
Speaker 3:The talk type model lends us an understanding with which we can better navigate the world, and I understand for people who don't know it yet, it's like the laser. When the laser came out, you know we think, oh gosh, the laser. We use it for everything right In medicine, in science, in space technology and even in the classroom in basic uses, like a pointer for a PowerPoint. Well, when the laser first came out, it was jokingly referred to as a solution looking for a problem. Nobody knew what to do with it. Well, that's great, you came out with this laser, but but gee, what do we do with it? Um, and it was like that, that old you know dog with doesn't want to learn new tricks.
Speaker 3:It's like no, there are lots of applications here, but we're just now starting to uncover many of them. I can see the applications in the last 30 years of developing the model, but maybe in the last 10 of actually using it in my daily life, in my personal and professional spheres. But what about the next 20 years, or the next 30 or beyond me? You know, I think it's mind-boggling to me. You know how these I guess that's a larger answer to your question but, um, but these things take on a life of their own only as they start to integrate with with the systems that are in place, and it takes people really kind of interacting with them to make that happen. And I'm looking forward to see even more applications beyond the ones that you know that have been in my realm of experience.
Speaker 2:Great answer. No, for real, thank you. Thank you for everything and thank you for the hour. Thank you for learning something new. Either we're growing or we're dying.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I choose to grow every day. So thank you, and I am going to download on Audible and I'll give you my thoughts on the whole book, the whole nine yards. But if you're a reader and Christmas, hanukkah, festivus Fonze is coming, buy the book. Amazoncom Barnes. Noble Amanda Condettas, phd Not only a PhD in results and communication with her best-selling book, talk Types. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, Omar.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure. You can make the choice to never listen to that negative voice no more. The hardest prison to escape is our own mind. I was trapped inside that prison all for a long time. To make it happen, you gotta take action. Just imagine what if it did work.