What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
From Corporate Burnout to Entrepreneurial Freedom: Lindsay Barnett's Journey
What if burnout wasn't inevitable? What if your workplace could be a source of energy rather than exhaustion?
Lindsay Barnett, executive coach and author of the Amazon bestseller "Working Hell to Working Well," joins us to unpack the modern workplace crisis where half of employed Americans report feeling burnt out. Drawing from over two decades working with Fortune 500 companies and growing startups, Lindsay shares how her own journey from workaholic to entrepreneur opened her eyes to better ways of working.
The conversation takes us through the evolution of workplace expectations, from the "suck it up" mentality of previous generations to today's emerging focus on meaning, belonging, and purpose. Lindsay reveals the research showing people who experience workplace belonging are 2.5 times less likely to burn out, yet most organizations continue treating symptoms rather than addressing root causes of workforce dissatisfaction.
We explore how pandemic-era reflections forced many to reevaluate their relationship with work, while challenging outdated industrial-age management philosophies that fail to recognize how innovation actually happens. Lindsay offers practical wisdom for leaders struggling with retention, suggesting they start by simply asking team members what motivates them instead of making assumptions.
Whether you're leading a team, feeling stuck in a toxic work environment, or building your own business, this conversation offers both validation and actionable insights to transform your relationship with work. The episode culminates with Lindsay's "platinum rule" for workplace success: don't treat others as you want to be treated, but as they want to be treated.
Ready to escape working hell and create a more fulfilling professional life? Listen now, then connect with Lindsay at BarnettCoaching.com or explore her free resources at WorkingHellToWorkingWell.com.
Join the What if it Did Work movement on Facebook
Get the Book!
www.omarmedrano.com
www.calendly.com/omarmedrano/15min
I never told no one that my whole life I've been holding back. Every time I load my gun up so I can shoot for the star, I hear a voice like who do you?
Speaker 2:think you are all right. Everybody. Another die, another dollar. Another one of my favorite episodes. My favorite podcast yes, what if it did work now with me? A guest from the? I mean to me it's probably the, the flagship school of california. It's my second school of choice, so lindsey burnett executive coach, human resources consultant, with over two decades of experience working with fortune 500 companies and growing startups. Addition to holding leadership roles, they hr function. She also is a professor of organizational culture at the University of Southern Cal. Throughout her career, she has navigated the twist in terms of work and life, seeking greater flexibility and purpose while overcoming burnout along the way. Lindsay lives with her husband, two kids and a very big dog in SoCal. How's it going?
Speaker 3:Good, how are you Omar?
Speaker 2:Doing great. So I read your bio. So you were a professor at USC, but you're also an alum right.
Speaker 3:I am not an alum.
Speaker 2:Oh, they need to switch that, because it says Actually the opposite alum, ucla, ucla and berkeley yeah oh, cal berkeley, oh my gosh yes, it is technically, that is the flagship school of california.
Speaker 3:I'd say right berkeley uh well, berkeley is in northern california, ucla is in southern california, but you know they, every state has to say they have one flagship.
Speaker 2:I mean academic-wise. I mean every kid, even the conservatives. They might lie and say they would never want to go to Cal Berkeley, but the numbers say otherwise. It's one of those studious schools. So, yeah, no, I knew that they had real standards there, so I never even bothered to apply. They'd probably send a rejection letter back in 1991 faster than my snail mail application could get there, so how's?
Speaker 2:it going you know what? Yeah, working hell to working. Well, we're going to talk about that. That's the name of your book. It's it. It has a catchy title thank amazon bestseller yes, thank you on audible because you know I I didn't see. No, do you do the actual audio or did you get?
Speaker 3:I did, yeah, audio and I'm an audiobook listener, so it was really important to me to make sure that it was a little fun.
Speaker 2:I'm the opposite. I'm like, and back to the future. I'm George McFly, even though I wrote two books. I'm like, who would want to hear it? Who would want to hear me speak? I mean, maybe I'll only get like five downloads. It's illumin, limiting beliefs you know it's from working with these places, yeah, for so many years. It beats you down and all these limiting beliefs how to become an entrepreneur? Where, where was this book a million years ago?
Speaker 3:yeah, uh, yeah, that's true. Well, I was still getting all the experiences to put in it.
Speaker 2:No, no, you look, reading the book, just the beginning. It says you were like in everything correct, like from pharmaceutical. So you, you had a bunch of different jobs in corporate America.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been. I've been. I've had a lot of different jobs, primarily at Fortune 500 companies, but in between, and since I've done a lot of work with startups and I've had the good fortune of now they're Fortune 500 companies, but in a couple cases they were small when I first started.
Speaker 2:Look at that startup experience. Yeah, it's cool. Look at that startup experience. Yeah, you mentioned that too. So now was was that your now? Did you come from? Clearly, you had that entrepreneurial spirit because you wrote the book yeah, yeah, you're. You're a business coach or whatnot. But what was your background growing up? Did you come from a long line of entrepreneurs? Did everybody work at Corporate America?
Speaker 3:No, I mean, you know I say no but really yes and I guess. So my grandmother was an entrepreneur. She had her own business for many years. So in a lot of ways she was my first entrepreneur role model. My dad was a physician but in a lot of ways he became an entrepreneur because the state of medicine you've got to figure out how to how to run your own business. You've got to figure out how to run your own business. And my mom was a teacher. She's got her doctorate in education. So you know it makes sense to me how I ended up doing what I do a little mix of the entrepreneur, a little bit of the education. You know a lot of what.
Speaker 2:I try to do is help people learn and grow. So makes sense.
Speaker 3:Did you grow up in the bay area or no, I grew up in southern california southern cal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look at that, you're so studious, you're like, yeah, I don't need to go to ucla or usc, I got, I got great grades. You know, go go to either Stanford or Berkeley. So something must have wanted you to write a book Working how to Working. Well, yeah, did you have? Like we've all had the good, the bad and the ugly. I mean, I had such traumatic experience working for others that my second book was on. Sorry about that. Yeah, oh, that's, everything happens for a reason. The reason everything that has happened in life the ABC, the good, the bad, the ugly has led the two of us here, right here, right now. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:I have zero regrets on anything it's like whenever somebody's like would you change something in your life? Yeah, I have zero regrets on anything it's like whenever somebody's like would you change something in your life yeah. Well, if I had amazing bosses, a million years ago I would have probably been a journalist somewhere and I would have never had ever became an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3:Yeah, isn't that fascinating? But in a way, by you know, having the podcast, in a way you are a journalist now, right?
Speaker 2:now tell that to my mom, because my mom had a heart attack. You know that master's degree in journalism, which is equal to nothing because you learn absolutely nothing. Even the, the head of the journalism department at university of Miami, told me that yeah, that, two degrees. My mom had like nearly a heart attack when I told her I was quitting.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was going to do my own thing for like 20 years, my mom would always be like are you OK? Do you need money? It's like, mom, I I'm not. Uh, if I would have stayed as a journalist, I would have needed money. You would have had to support me for the for the past 20 years, right, right. So, like, like what I tell people? There's a lot of degrees out there that you have to ask yourself if you want to eval of poverty and be educated, just go to seminary. It's way cheaper because there's plenty of people not not you, lindsey, that did graduate from cal berkeley. You know berkeley bears and they're like oh, you know, I just want to become a, a student, I just want a, an education. And then you get a degree in pottery or you get a degree in something studies I'm Hispanic, so I could say Hispanic, american studies and then I wonder why IBM's not hiring, why I'm telling people hey, well, welcome to the museum, I'll be your tour guide today. Omar Medrano and not much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look, I studied anthropology, which I think a lot of people probably were like, ok, Indiana Jones, you know what are you going to do with that. But I actually found, because I do a lot of work in corporate culture, having the anthropology background actually gave me a different training than I would have thought.
Speaker 2:Well, also, all roads lead to Rome. Think about it the Roman Empire, after a thousand years, crumbled because of poor leadership. So you know every empire, every corporation. You say Fortune 500 company, but to become a Fortune 500 company there has to be some companies that go by the wayside.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot do.
Speaker 2:A lot of companies that don't pivot, a lot of companies that never. I know this book is 100% about just what should be in corporate America, but before it was suck it up, you didn't have to have culture, you didn't have to have the touchy-feely. In fact, a lot of places, the ones that had the poster or the teamwork with everybody rowing together or the eagle flying in its leadership, those are usually the companies that have like a four foot high book from HR on what you cannot do in the workplace.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is is different and it's changing even more. Now, right, so well, the younger generation, I mean exactly being being a.
Speaker 2:It's funny because we, we laugh. Well, I'm younger than you, gen x, that you know. We, we were taught to suck it up because you know, the baby boomers, or whatnot, taught us that. And that's not exactly the greatest, because, well, in a way it was because, how we said, everything leads to this. Our kids and our grandkids have seen us just miserable. So who wants to be treated like a number? You know that old adage you're working for someone else's dreams. Yes, that's true, but at least let's have a we mentality, or somewhat, instead of a do it my way or I'll find someone else.
Speaker 3:And you know the sad thing about that is that when we can work for an amazing manager, when we can have a project where we're learning and growing and you know with a team that we enjoy, that's fun, like that's great and that's really satisfying and meaningful, especially if you have a good impact on the world.
Speaker 2:So it's a shame when there are so many little things that chip away at what could be really amazing and, you know, part of what gives us meaning in life and purpose what could be an amazing experience, or imagine this corporation has an amazing service to offer or an amazing product, but everybody's checked out because quote, stress levels they're burnt out, they're checked out. It's not my response whenever you hear you go to a place and they're like, oh, that's not my job, yeah, that's, that's above my pay grade, or whatever. That's a company with a lot of people that are just there for a paycheck or they're waiting for, indeed, or monster, or or the next job to come through yeah, yeah, yeah there's.
Speaker 3:You know there's a way out of the kind of transactional nature of work and you know I've been, I'm an entrepreneur now but I feel like oh, clearly, yeah, I mean you're, you're a coach, yeah, but I but I still miss my colleagues.
Speaker 3:You know I'm I'm very lucky that I worked at places where I'm still in touch with people that I worked with 20 some odd years ago, and you know that's, that's joy, right Like we did something together and we still have the relationship to show for it, even though we're not in the same place anymore to show for it, even though we're not in the same place anymore.
Speaker 2:Well, you can still have a relationship with people because on the opposite end, where it's like a so much trauma, trauma bonding, that it's an us versus them, that you still keep contra, you still keep contact with these people and you still laugh, or you send memes or you send videos about the workplace and you're like, oh yeah, that that's, that's like the place that we used to work at. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:When was the last time you were in a corporate setting?
Speaker 2:oh, I, I retired and I've been back working for someone else and not myself, uh, three years now. Okay, yeah, yeah, uh, everything from it. It's it's way harder to uh, I mean, I do business coaching, I do that and I do the podcast and working on book number three more than likely, but number three more than likely. But there's just something that probably taxes and divorce makes you want to go out there and, plus, nobody wants to be everybody that thinks retirement is fun at an early age. There's just so much tv you can watch. You know, I was a guy that would always be like, you know, damning people about streaming Netflix and watching every show. But it came to the point that being retired like that because my kids were already older, so it wasn't like they were toddlers, or already older, so it wasn't like I could, they were toddlers, so I went back. I, I worked for a quote-unquote guru that a business guru, that that's super famous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll change all the names for the innocent. It's like one of the jobs I I got out of coming out of retirement to be like a business coach and horrible work environment. And you know the guy writes about it, about having these. Have you have to have an amazing work environment? And then I mean I'll change his name because you're not changing the name of the innocent. Like Patrick. But David worked for a company called by vitamin.
Speaker 2:Everybody loves the videos, loves the book, loves the book, but the management horrible, and it was like oh my gosh. And then for a while I was like just, it brought back memories of like when I was in my 20s. I'm like oh my gosh, but I. Finally, a lot of times when you do personal development too, you attract what you you feel like you deserve. Yeah, so a lot of times I feel like people stay at places that need to read your book, the work and how the working. Well, yeah, book by Lindsay Barnett, audible as well as Amazon, same company and it was like. You know, people stay a lot of times like either they have the Stockholm syndrome that they love, like being tormented and tortured, or they feel like it's scary to go out there and just find something new.
Speaker 3:But you know what, though? What I will offer just from my own experience, as well as, you know, coaching others. Sometimes we can make the place that we're at work better. If we really understand what we need, what we want, we can get some courage to ask for those things. Sometimes the the not good versus good is there's external forces, but there's internal forces too, and oh, yeah, for sure, but you, you have to.
Speaker 2:You have to have someone, or you have to have upper management, someone that's that's saying, or, a lot of times, a corporation that's toxic, it's, it's like a pyramid, it's it's all the way to the top and it goes all the way down. So, you know, you can have your Jerry Maguire moment and go hey, you know what? I think it's time to change this company. I bought, I read this amazing book that I bought everybody a copy of because she's an amazing teacher. She, she's a graduate from Cal Berkeley, working hell to working well, and this is going to change our environment. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of seeing new people every day. I'm tired of people.
Speaker 2:Now, it's like coaching. You're a coach. It's very invasive to try to give advice to someone that's not seeking it or they feel like they don't need to do the work. Now, if I'm like a calm man, lindsay, you know what, I don't know. I've been doing this for over 20 years and, yeah, they used to stay all my employees, but now it's like I don't know if it's like being at a fast food restaurant or like playing for the Miami Marlins. I have a new roster like every other day. Can you help me out here? Boom, that's. That's that person's coachable? You can help them out, but it's not like you can be. Like you know, joe, I heard from one of your employees that you're having a problem with turnover, employee morale's down and the culture here is horrible. Would you like some free advice or would you like some coaching? What would that person tell you?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, probably free advice or everything's okay, I don't need to worry about it.
Speaker 2:Don't worry about it. You don't know the situation. My company's different. Do you have, I don't know, 12 years of experience in this industry? You see, while the other person's open and you can do that well if somebody is narcissistic or completely closed off, they're not going to want it, and you know that. That's why it's funny, because I'm sure there's people in your surrounding area that can do the help, but they would never ask because they feel like, even though they have proximity to, to someone that can get them out of this mess yeah, you know, at times we feel like we're the captain of our own ship.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, sometimes we feel like the guy getting ready to retire his last voyage and he hits the iceberg.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean it's hard, but I think you know there are always steps that you can take in the right direction, whether you're voting with your feet and leaving the organization, or leaving a manager, or or Well, I mean, or just detaching a little bit.
Speaker 2:Everybody, everybody is changeable. You know Charles Dickens wrote it best and you know the Christmas Christmas story or no, that's the kid, that's the guy with the BB gun, I don't know what you're about to quote.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I can't help.
Speaker 2:No, no, charles, Charles Dickens, he wrote. I know he wrote a bunch of books, ebenezer Scrooge.
Speaker 3:Oh, a Christmas story.
Speaker 2:No, I think a Christmas story is the one with the kid that says he'll shoot You'll.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, now I'm, now I'm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's like that. He had that, you know, that willingness to change it, and we all have that in us. And that's what I love about this book is that I mean and there's plenty of examples, if somebody Googled that because it's not just about like bringing in a ping pong table or whatnot. It's a lot of times you just want, we just want to feel like something, people care about us, that, at the end of the day, isn't that what everybody wants?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, and that's you know. If you think about burnout there, you know Sherm had some research done that showed that people who experience a sense of belonging are two and a half times less likely to burn out. Right, it's like knowing exactly.
Speaker 2:Knowing that somebody cares about you and that you've got for sure you're not burnt, you're not burnt out. It's like if you work for a place that you have anxiety, you start getting anxiety sunday afternoon, sunday night because, oh my gosh, I have to go back.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, you, you're going to say, oh man, I'm burnt out. No, it's because you, you know, you have all this anxiety built in and you're working yourself up. Now, if it's a place, oh my gosh, you know, friday comes and they're like man, what an amazing place. You know, I can't believe. You know, I'm so lucky to work for work for a place like that. Yeah, and, and being I mean being I was an entrepreneur. I, I had that, I wanted, I mean I've I've got friend social media or I see them once in a blue moon, people that worked for me 20 years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, for them to say that I was their best boss or their best job, that meant a lot instead of oh my gosh, I hate that guy. Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you think made motivated you to be the best boss? Or two things? Um, it skipped a generation. Um entrepreneurship my mom worked for corporate america for like her whole life, hated it, but her idea of success is I needed to do that same try for 30, 40 years.
Speaker 2:Uh, my grandfather, when he immigrated here 1951, uh, years later, he opened up a corporation that fixed um engines for airlines and he was a great boss. He's still alive, he's gonna be 101 next month. And it was just like you know. He hired, like my friends, but overall it was. It was like a place that people stayed years to come and then, working in college, I went to lsu out of state, I was working and I I had great bosses, but then, like my first job, like first real job after I graduated, it was just like the opposite of this book and it was like they even said if you want to raise, go find another job.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine telling that? And management all got a brand new Porsche every year but and they would always say stuff like that and it was like holy smokes, it was just like people leaving left and right. And it was just like people leaving left and right and it was just like yeah, and and then definitely wouldn't work. Like the me too movement or vulgar hey ladies, like the boss would call us or like oh so, uh, he's like your fraternity brothers probably called you the big O, but all the chicks probably called you a little O and stuff like that. And it was like, oh my, it's like this is a grown guy talking to other adults in their early twenties and it was like holy smokes. And I had a few other jobs like that and I even worked for Jimmy Swagger the televangelist.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was my last journalism job. I'm like I can't. So, yeah, as you can tell, and he wouldn't talk to me because I was Catholic and I was his producer. So it was like an interpreter. He would bring his buddy along because I wouldn't convert. So, yeah it was. He was like literally like two feet. It would talk to my I guess, my new superior to tell me what needed to get done, and he would have to say it word for word, even though I just heard what Jimmy Swaggart said. Yeah, and it was just like holy smokes. So, at the end of the day, and you're like, oh my gosh, you must've been like making a ton of money in all these places. That one job, the first job that, hey, you have if you want to, you're going to be shocked. It was a full-time job, salary.
Speaker 2:Yeah $16,000 a year and you're like, oh wow, was this like 1960? No, it was like 1996. It was crap back then. It was like you could work more at McDonald's because they were working us like 50, 60 hours. Yeah, and it was like that. So that's why, like whenever I read books, you know. So that's why, like whenever I read books, you know, working hell to working well, available on Amazon. And for those that I know, horrible bosses don't listen to my show because they're all leaders, because there's a difference between being a leader and a boss. But maybe you had that ghost of Christmas future visit you. You know Lindsay Barnett. Not only did she write a book, an amazing business consultant.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Yeah, so a lot of experiences, but actually the working hell part is also based on my concern about where we are today. Right, like 50% of the people employed in this country are saying they're burnt out. We've got a problem. We're leaving a lot of productivity and profitability on the table. Then, yeah, it doesn't seem like a lot of organizations want to address it, so that Well it seems, lindsey, don't you think like it?
Speaker 2:it just feels weird that they're definitely a lot of corporations. Definition of fixing the problem is outsourcing it or outsourcing it to a third world country instead of why don't we just keep it anymore? But yeah, but know for a while, instead of just like yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:If there is a problem, you know, let's solve it.
Speaker 2:But that takes time and tension, and it takes common sense too to say hey, maybe we need, maybe something here needs to be fixed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, some of it, I think, is we just are. Everyone is so overloaded, we're moving too fast and we're all so distracted right now Right, our ability to stay present with a problem is also hard to stay present with a problem is also hard.
Speaker 2:We're not only distracted, but we as a society is, if somebody doesn't believe, like if, if somebody's not agreeing with us a hundred percent, they're, they're the enemy, yeah, they're the problem. And it's not just politics, it's like, oh yeah, that person, it's like. You know, communication means to understand everybody's world. If you want them to follow you or if you want things to get done, communication, but you can't come from a place. Well, oh, I don't like that person's religion. Or, oh my gosh, oh my God, that guy is such a MAGA religion. Or, oh my gosh, that that, oh my god, that guy is such a maga. Or or, oh my god, did she really? Did that person vote for kamala? I bet you they're communists, I bet you, I bet you, that's how.
Speaker 2:And like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, no, nobody spoke like that I know no, nobody looked for an excuse to not want to listen to someone or not to have any empathy, but now we just create and people don't understand. If the whole world was exactly like you, it'd be a really boring place. What makes everything exciting is that it's so different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. I mean that diversity is important on so many levels, and we are more diverse than ever before too, right?
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure, for sure, I mean the younger generations.
Speaker 3:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh, I would have to say yes. Oh, I would have to say yes. Being an entrepreneur, I saw the shift. I'm not the type that, oh my gosh, they're so lazy, they're so entitled, they just want the world given to them. Because they say every generation, because every generation was different.
Speaker 3:Well, and it's funny because in doing the research for my book, I found this article that talked about how, back in like Greek times, they have evidence of people complaining about the younger generation. Of course it doesn't matter, we're all like whatever generation you are, you're always finding fault with the younger one. Oh, of course it doesn't matter, we're all like whatever generation you are, you're always finding fault with the younger one. Oh, of course.
Speaker 2:We all still want the same thing. I remember like I'm dating myself, like being in, like a Walden Books Time Magazine dating myself even more with the headline, even more with the headline is generation X. Will generation X be the downfall of America? Because boomers said that we were lazy, that we were this, that we were no good for nothing. And it's like you know, 40 years later, you know the earth is still spinning and you know now we're all ganging up and complaining on the younger generation that they're too soft, they're too this. And nobody's too soft, it's just people have. People in general want what your book is writing about. They're, they don't want to take it anymore, they, they don't want to. People don't want to, people don't want to work for a place that they're burnt out. You know, quite frankly, if you're going to spend eight hours, nine hours a day, yeah.
Speaker 2:Most of your life. Yes.
Speaker 3:In work, yeah, you should feel respected and valued and, you know, have some sense of meaning coming out of it.
Speaker 2:I mean yes, I mean I would love to talk to anybody the older, you know, a boomer or anybody, and say so would you? You know you stayed at a company, probably a lot of times, because that's a misconception that everybody stayed 20, 30, 40 years. They got the pension, the gold watch, because then how did the workplace, you know, how did other companies thrive, survive? Others didn't. Because you know you always have people switching jobs and no, who the hell wants to work for a place? That that makes you feel anxiety.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh, I got this job, I'm getting paid an extra couple thousand dollars. I I need uh, speak to my a counselor. I I need, or I need some xanax or I need some happy pills because I feel like crap. No, I mean nobody, nobody wants that. Every. You know how everybody says oh before, oh, we, you just want to be paid more. That's not necessarily true, because who wants to have a boss that you feel like they're on top of you, that you're under their thumb? I mean, that sounds great in a Rolling Stones song, but you know, in the work environment, nobody wants that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, it's. You know, the our, our workplace relationships are some of these are some of the people that we're spending the most time with. You know we're. We're not spending time with family or friends because we're at work, so yeah, and lindsay what?
Speaker 2:I'm sure this you'll. You'll smirk about this. Yeah, when elon musk and other and other CEOs say you cannot be productive working from home, working in Zoom, everybody must go back into the office, must work for the 40, 50 hours a week. They must clock in, they must clock out. We must see what they're doing 24-7.
Speaker 3:That is industrial age thinking completely right it is. It's like we're not spitting out widgets. It's actually particularly fascinating, for you know white collar knowledge workers that are really innovative, and you know you're not coming up with your best ideas because you're sitting in front of your laptop. You're probably coming up with your best ideas on a walk, driving your car, in the shower.
Speaker 2:Even founders, like, like Steve jobs, all those things popped into his head. None of none of them was yet Cupertino with his mock turtleneck and his, his jeans, and he's like, but behind a Mac, and going, oh well, yeah, this is. You know, none of those were, and it's the same thing, you know, if, if you want innovation and you want that, that entrepreneurial spirit, or you want, yeah, it's not 1940, anymore 1950. Or you know, yes, you know, the Ford Motor Company, where you know pretty much the work week and everything was invented by Henry Ford. I mean, that was so long ago, let's move, let's pivot, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I think there's also a sense of not recognizing that trust is bi-directional, right In a lot of ways. The five days a week is we don't trust you to do work unless we see you doing work, but yet at the same time, a lot of leaders aren't fostering trust.
Speaker 2:So it's you know Well it works both ways and it's. It's funny because you know everybody, you know, yeah, these, these founders, or they had great minds that just because you're you're amazing at building something from scratch doesn't make you an amazing entrepreneur, make you an amazing leader of a lot of times companies grew even more when the founder left. I mean, it's hard to say, guys, but it it's. There's facts like the disney corporation got a lot bigger when walt retired and no longer with us, and it I, or even apple. Everybody talks about steve jobs, but under Tim Cook it's it's got way more profitability and that's you can be a great person at building something up, but that doesn't make you a great leader. That's like you can be an amazing salesperson.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And but a lot of times. The old antiquated way was let's promote him to be the sales leader.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Has zero skills at teaching and wonder why it's not working out. It's because he's amazing at sales. He's not amazing at being a leader, much less teaching people that are in the red on how to sell.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean a lot of it is how do we all play to our gifts and strengths and contribute and have the space to be able to contribute in the way that will work best for us?
Speaker 2:Now, what got you now, right Did, writing the book? Is that what led you on the path of wanting to be an entrepreneur, wanting to coach, wanting to consult?
Speaker 3:No, I mean for me. Honestly, I was a lot of. The genesis of the book is because during the pandemic I had two young kids. I had two young kids and it was crazy trying to do a full-time job, have kids at home, like so many other people experienced that. I was able to shift to part-time and so that part-time experience really opened my eyes to how I was working like a workaholic.
Speaker 3:As a coach, I was seeing people who also were working full time but were finding new ways of working that led to greater well-being. So ultimately, I ended up getting laid off, partially because I was part time, laid off partially because I was part time, or at least that's the story, I think, in my head and so I got laid off and I was like you know what? I'm going to write a book about this. I'm going to write about what I learned about creating the systems and structures and, you know, soul searching needed to be able to work better, but also with a lens for managers and for organizations to also figure out how they can support others in working. Well, you don't have to leave, you don't have to go part-time.
Speaker 2:That was just, you know, my path just, you know my path and the path to going part-time and you being laid off to me. Yeah, everything happens for a reason. Oh, yeah, they actually did you a favor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it all, it all worked out. You know, I mean I it's funny because as an hr person, sadly you have to participate in a lot of layoffs, and you know, I was like I'm so grateful for this experience. Actually, I feel like it gave me a better sense of just what the experience is and I fortunately, you know, was able to pivot and turn into entrepreneurship. I know there are a lot of people that you know are struggling right now, though, with with finding new jobs and whatnot, so it is hard.
Speaker 2:Now, before that, you're a workaholic. Isn't that crazy that a lot of people would say that's the way to success? I know, not being with your family, not raising your children, not having a work-life balance where the best of both worlds. But hey, you're on to amazing things. Lindsay, you're a workaholic. Before you know it, you're going to be crushing it. Not before you know it, the kids are so grown that they don't want to spend time because you were never there.
Speaker 3:Right, I know, yeah, I mean there's a lot of wake up calls that had to happen, and. But you know it is interesting though, because I wasn't always a workaholic. But you know it is interesting though, because I wasn't always a workaholic. It really like I can practically chart when it started happening. So it's, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:Now, now did you go down that path because you felt that was the key to your success, or I mean I think it's like anyone with some form of addiction. In a lot of ways it's it's filling a need that you haven't figured out how to meet in other ways. You know, so at the time I mean you have kids, when your kids are really young, there's no. Oh, mom, you're doing a great job, thanks, mom, right. They're like I want candy, I want that toy, right, and I think I just really like you know, when you go to work, they're like great work, you're doing so good and you know doing so good and you know you, you get kind of this um you get on the hedonic treadmill of like great I now, I want more, I want more, of course, yes, all that stuff.
Speaker 3:So it's easy to get sucked into that if you don't really stay mindful of it and really keep anchoring back to your values and your identity and whatnot.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great that you could, because a lot of times it's like either too late or sometimes people never snap out of it. I, for so many years of my life, I thought success or happiness was the if then theory. If I did more of this, then you know, like that God would be, like from the heavens there'd be a light shining saying Omar, you've done so much, you are not only successful, but here is your happiness. You deserved it because you crossed that finish line.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, finish line, yeah, yeah, and I see a lot of people and it's either they have that, if then, or if I work harder, I'll be able to buy some shiny object, that I believe what madison avenue taught me will lead to my happiness, that that new car or that new something, that that will give me validation. And it's never like well, maybe the validation and maybe the happiness comes from within, and maybe success, as long as you find your own definition of success, not what Webster wrote, not what. Yeah, that's open to interpretation.
Speaker 3:Interpretation yeah, and we're all. We're all needing different things and and wanting different things. But you know, sometimes this is, this is that vicious cycle with workaholism is you don't have time and space to actually see what's happening, which is oh no no, because, my god, yeah because, no because.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you had time for yourself, you had time to think. But if you're immersed in something that you feel like you can't breathe, you're you know. The only thing to do is move forward until usually what happens is, you know, one day you snap out. You're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I missed so much out of life chasing something yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there are other people who literally physically get ill oh yeah, I've seen that at some point something's got to give but then they get ill, or they either physically or emotionally. It's like, oh my gosh, why? Why was that person so depressed? He made so much money, and that's whenever, like, a celebrity kills himself or a successful entrepreneur, anthony Bourdain, why, why did he do it? He was successful, he made money and he had his own show and he could eat wherever he wanted. Because, you know, true happiness isn't what's in your checking account, what's in your savings account, yeah, yeah. So, lindsay, when it comes to coaching, now do you do one on one with, with corporations or small medium?
Speaker 3:I do group coaching, I do team coaching, so I do a lot of a lot of different kinds of coaching, but they're all they're all really fun to me kinds of coaching, um, but they're all, they're all really fun to me. Um, you know, I the thing that I actually really enjoy a lot is, I mean, I love the one-on-one because of the intimacy, but small group coaching is really beautiful too, because people are helping each other out. They feel like, oh, I have that problem too. They feel less alone.
Speaker 2:it's just, it's just really a great uh, you know, great opportunity for people now do you ever have that where it's a small group setting and it's management and all the same company? Not, and they're, it's one of it's. It's. It's a productive session, but it's a bitch session in the sense that the top guy would completely blindsided. Not because it's obvious, because sometimes you know, we we wear, we wear different color glasses yeah and it's like oh my, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't see any of this.
Speaker 3:Thank you for for telling me, thank you for communicating right, right, yeah, yeah, I see that sometimes I do a lot of new leader assimilations, leaders where you know they're 30 days in 60 days, in, where we kind of, you know, get their together, talking about not about them in a bad way, but in that kind of productive way that you're describing, and then the leader can share here's oh, you thought that, well, here's what I meant, right, there's so much that gets lost. You're the communication guy between intention and impact, and so creating those spaces for people to have those conversations can be really impactful for the team and the individuals.
Speaker 2:Now I'm going to wear your Lindsay's friends hat, so when's the next book coming out, Lindsay?
Speaker 3:wear your lindsey's friends hat. So when's the next book coming?
Speaker 2:out lindsey. When's the?
Speaker 3:next book coming out, I think I'm still uh trying I'm sure you've heard that.
Speaker 2:That's why I had to say it but you know, it's a lot, it's a lot of work yeah, it's a lot of work and people realize that, yeah, that it's not like, because everybody thinks that you write a book that you're you're like on oprah's couch the next day it's so true.
Speaker 3:You're lucky if you sell like more than just your family and friends exactly I, it's like I told some.
Speaker 2:I remember the second book came out and a guy, a friend, Jim friend, is like why are you going back to work? You wrote two books.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, and he's like, yeah, he's like, don't, don't you do like signings, or you know and I'm like like signings, or you know and I'm like signings, from where my garage to the neighbors. No, I think only one time did somebody out of the blue run into me that I didn't know who they were in some capacity and said they that they bought my book. But yeah, and everybody feels I think it's because the ai. You know how they see you could do these videos or there's all that crappy. Hey, for 20 bucks I'll show you. Using ai, you can write the next. You're the next william shakespeare. Using ai, it can be so easy writing a book with.
Speaker 3:AI yeah, no, no, no I just had.
Speaker 2:I knew you would smirk and chuckle at that yes.
Speaker 2:Because people would always ask me. And then my second book, I don't know three years ago, when's the next one? I don't know. When I say I'm writing it, it's because you know, just doodle paragraphs here, but it's like you do it for your bucket list or you do it it's like you, you're in service, you want to help people out. It wasn't like you told you. You sat down the family and you're like good thing, we live in southern cal because brentwood is calling we're. We're moving into one of the biggest mansions in brentwood because I'm writing a book.
Speaker 2:I don't know how much it costs to charter a plane whenever we travel, but we we might have to start looking into that. People are just like I. I don't know what it is, but it it's. It's funny because it's like you guys do know that people have been writing books forever called academia and I've known plenty of professors and I don't think any of them were were going to the Playboy Mansion with Hugh Hefner back in the day. They're like, hey, guess what? Guys, I wrote another edition of this book. It's selling like wildfire. You know, kentucky University of Kentucky students bought some. So you know, I'm going on a sabbatical, I'm just going to the hills, beverly Hills that is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So how do people find you? Lindsay, we know how to find the book Working, how to Working Well, amazon Audible. If you like Lindsay's presence, you like the way she sounds, she reads the book. She didn't outsource it. So we know that, son, she reads the book. She didn't outsource it. So we know that. How do we find you? Because there's plenty of companies that need your help and I'm being serious about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. So my actual company is Barnett Coaching, so barnettcoachingcom dot com. B-a-r-n-e-t-t coaching dot com. And then I also have a ton of resources on my Working Hell to Working Well website, which is just working hell to working well dot com. So, and there are some freebies there too. So if if people are interested in some of the resources that are in the book, there are some of those also on the website too.
Speaker 2:And one final question, and this one I know you can answer what do you tell the entrepreneur? I'll play him. You know, I've been in business for 16, 17 years and I don't know, I don't know how to motivate my. My team comes and goes. They, they have no passion. That seem checked out. They.
Speaker 3:They seem like they don't want to be there I mean, I actually have had a lot of these conversations. You know, oftentimes it's just well, have you asked them what they care about? Have you asked them what they need, what motivates them? And oftentimes the answer is, oh, no, I haven't had that conversation. I'm like, well, start there. I'm like well, start there. Sometimes, you know, we make assumptions and we manage our old selves instead of managing the person in front of you.
Speaker 2:True, and everybody. It's an organization. Don't talk to people the way you want to be talked to. Everybody's different. There's different personalities, so learn how. Learn how to motivate. Learn. Learn how to have empathy. Learn how to just listen. Just listening will get you far.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's a platinum rule, right Like treat people how they want to be treated.
Speaker 2:Yes, not the way you want to be treated. I don't know that's such a stupid saying. When I treat people the way you want to be treated, it's like no, it's opposite. But you're right and thank you for everything. Thank you for I know we were supposed to do this a couple of weeks ago, but life happens and thank you. And thank you for giving me a copy of the book. Believe it or not, a lot of authors feel like you know you give because you're in service. It wasn't like I printed it out and I was selling it half off on a website on the dark web somewhere.
Speaker 2:But, thank you. It's an amazing book and I'm going to listen to two books on audible. So now that I know that you did it, I yourself, I will download it and I will I will send you out a message. It's a great book, but it's it's even better to me. I'm a guy that loves to listen. So, good, good, all right, dear, thank you. Have an amazing rest of your day with your family.
Speaker 3:Thank you, you too, omar, thank you have an amazing rest of your day for a long time.
Speaker 1:To make it happen, you gotta take action. Just imagine what if it did work.