What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
How Mark Silverman Turned Pain Into Purpose—and Built Millions Along The Way
What if the story you’re living isn’t the one you have to keep repeating? That’s the spark behind this conversation with executive coach, author, and podcaster Mark Silverman—a man who went from living in his truck at 27 to leading complex, multimillion-dollar deals and guiding high achievers into healthy, effective leadership.
We go straight at the stuff most “success” stories skip. Mark talks openly about addiction, undiagnosed ADHD, and the moment a brain scan made decades of chaos make sense. He shares the lifeline of AA and a brother who pulled him into a room where healing started. Then we track the surprising pivot from hospitality to sales in his mid-30s—terrified, introverted, and learning that trust outperforms theatrics. The wins stack quickly, and then everything breaks again: marriage, health, career. That reckoning becomes the gateway to the work that lasts.
Across this episode, we unpack leadership without the myth. No charisma gene. No superhero cape. Just skills you can learn—clarity, agreements, empathy, decisive communication—and the inner work that lets those skills stick. We talk trauma-informed leadership, selling by serving, the cost of cheap dopamine, and why attention is the scarcest executive resource. Mark’s three questions—What do I need to leave behind? Where do I need to level up? Who do I need to be?—become a reliable operating system for growth at work and at home. And we offer a simple test for great leaders: they talk about the privilege of serving people and mission, not just their own wins.
If you’re building a career that looks impressive but feels thin—or you’re ready to lead without burning out—this conversation is a reset. Grab The Rising Leader Handbook on Amazon, download Only Tens free at markjsilverman.com, then hit follow, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review to help more people find the show.
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Another episode of my favorite podcast. Yes, I'm still biased. It's my own podcast, but I gotta say, this guest he was supposed to be on, then he wasn't. Mark Silverman, he was concerned. He thought I was like, clearly, people that know me know it's it's it's this isn't rocket science. Nobody was lost. God in the universe wanted us to do this episode right today. Because when whenever we were supposed to do it, I don't keep mental tabs or you know, I don't keep score, that wouldn't have been as great as today. But Mark Silverman, I mean, the man, the myth the legend, he's an executive coach, he's a speaker, he's a podcaster, he's an author, he's somebody can that can easily connect with other people. He's a man who turned adversity. You always ask me. That's that key word, Mark. That's why I wanted you on anybody that can adversity, because we all have adversity. Mark turned adversity into an inspiring success story, just 27 years old. Mark found himself homeless and living out of his truck. Wayne, only 135 pounds. How tall are you, dude? To be weighing.
SPEAKER_01:I'm only 5'7, so it's okay.
SPEAKER_03:I'm 5'8, but I I and 100. I I pictured myself, I I grew, I was 5'8 like that in sixth grade. I never grew anything. I was like around that, so I'm like, holy smokes! I hope you're you weren't like six feet or something. No, no, no. But so we're about the same height, we're we're vertically challenged, but with was resilience, determination rose above his circumstances, his circumstances, because everybody has circumstances, everybody has adversity. Two become a millionaire just six years later. Mark, you're not a story. We all have stories. That's his story, and we're gonna find out about it. Mark's success continued in his career. Technology regenerated over. I ran out of fingers and toes in abacus. This my abacus doesn't go this high, but I'm gonna say 90 million dollars for fast-growing startups by bringing together executives, technical leaders, stakeholders to close complex multi-million dollar sales, but didn't stop there because Mark's an overachiever, best-selling author. I got to read a copy of one of his books, multiple multiple books, coach, speaker, host of the rising leader podcast: turning high achievers into effective leaders. Mission is share the lessons he's learned along the way, helped others to find and achieve their own success. Mark books only 10. Dude, the the rest wordy, we don't need to know about because I want to hear it from your mouth. Thank you for being on the show, man.
SPEAKER_01:It's a pleasure to be here. It's funny when I first became a coach, it would you know, years ago, it was like there was nothing before we had to have filler about what I did in my career.
SPEAKER_03:The stuff that I I could read all that, but that's like some that's like for somebody that's like I'm gonna be a life coach. Well, how old are you? I'm 22, dude. That's filler. Live into your live into your 60s, and you too will have a resume. You need to revisit that, and clearly, as you can tell, before we started rolling and after, my personality, dude, never apologize. Life happens, man. I no nobody lost a kidney. We're here. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being on this.
SPEAKER_01:My my my pleasure. I appreciate I appreciate like-minded people.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, uh when whenever people have to up if if that tells me that you've had to deal with people that take life too seriously. And when when you deal with people like that, that's what's going what's wrong with society now, Mark. Have you noticed? Oh gosh, they killed him, they they killed Charlie, you know. People are angry because they want something to focus their anger on, just like the other side. Oh, well, he was this, he was that. Life is meant to be lived. So man, and for somebody that's lit that was homeless, I'm sure you're like, there's so much small stuff out there that the people get angry, bent, twisted, trivial stuff.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I don't, I don't get I don't I don't really get judgmental about that. What I've what I've really learned is how hard it is to be human. It's just so hard to grow up like like in your TED talk, you talked about the adversity, you know, that that you faced as a child. Uh, we talk about you know what I what I had to face, you know, with alcoholism and drug addiction and undiagnosed ADHD and all that stuff. Um but every single person that I meet has some sort of story, some sort of challenge, some sort of insanity going on between their ears that they believe uh that makes life really hard. So whenever I'm about like I like I'm of course I judge people, but when I see that, I always remember that it it's just hard to make this body-mind go in the direction you want it to go, keep it on the road, and not get sidetracked by emotions, anger, you know, dramatic stuff, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's like what when you're driving on a road, Mark, who the hell can go where they're supposed to be going and have an amazing day? It's like, oh my god, oh that guy literally cut me off. I can't believe that. Oh, that guy didn't use their turn signal.
SPEAKER_01:You're using that that one's been tough for me. I have not been able to forgive people who don't use their turn signal.
SPEAKER_03:Everything else is nowhere in the bio did it say that that you know you're perfect, brother. You're man. We're we're we're we we we sin, we fall, we get back up, we we fall and we laugh at ourselves because that's life, man. The you you're talking about adversity, my story and your story, your story, everybody has a story, but when you can embrace it and when when you can use it to inspire and to motivate people, that's when you know you've conquered that. Because you could have lived there if you lived in that same story, that same sad story, that all that adversity, you would still be there. When when when I talk, whether you know, about the assistant principal. Oh my god, did you ever know? Because if I needed that to be who I am, we need to go through the fire, and it's not like when we talk about it, it's to inspire people to push them to become better. You're not looking for empathy, you're not looking for sympathy, you're not looking for cyber hugs. I'm not either. I'm I tell my story because I want you to get off your ass and do something. It's not like I'm like, oh my God. I don't I don't because you know, there's always someone if I'm speaking to a group of people or one, oh, let me hug you, or I don't I why why don't you hug me because you think I'm cool or because you know you like when I'm dressed, or you think I'm funny, or you like my my energy, but you know, the the past we don't live in it. The problem is is a lot of people want to stay in that past. So I have to ask, the audience needs to know what got a great guy like you, weighing 135 pounds, and I know you can say alcoholism and everything. People choose to numb themselves because there's pain. Nobody says, hey, I'm gonna become homeless. Nobody's gonna say, hey, I'm gonna choose alcohol. Nobody's gonna be like, hey, you know, I'm shooting up, I'm snoring, I'm smoking because you know it looks fun. No, it's like the ultimate when somebody kills themselves, it's not like somebody's like, hey, you know what? I'm gonna do it for a dramatica effect. All these things I just listed, it's to try to numb pain.
SPEAKER_01:Right. 100%. So for me, it it was it was you know, some childhood trauma, uh molestation, and you know, some some some of that stuff. Part of it was also I undiagnosed ADHD because back in the 60s and 70s, we didn't really know what to do with that. No, and I also learned uh in my in my late 40s, uh, when I uh you know, we were diagnosing my kids when my uh when I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was also diagnosed. They put electrodes on my brain, and I have uh he showed me a dark area on my brain. He says, see that? That is executive function. You don't have that, it's dark. I said, What's executive function? He says, It's cause and effect, consequences, you know, actions and consequences. You don't have that. And that all of a sudden, like my whole decades of life made sense to me that I didn't I didn't have a brain that was working properly. And then whether it was caused by trauma or whether you know, trauma plus that turned into it. And then, you know, just bartending and cocaine and and you know, life and times, you know, you know, I had a good time for a while until I didn't. You know, I was, you know, instead of going to college, I bartended and had a had a blast in the late 70s, early 80s. Uh and uh it was uh and then it just turned on me, right? And then and then, you know, I I I got in with a group of people who helped me see that there was that there was life uh beyond that. Uh and I came to D C Washington, DC when I was living in my truck because I needed some money. And my brother lived here and he was kind of the mayor of DC. He owned a bunch of restaurants and stuff like that. And he took me to an AA meeting and an NA meeting and had me in the middle of his group of friends, which started my journey to adulthood, to function, to functional.
SPEAKER_03:Now, your brother was a member, he was attending these meetings, so um that's what I was.
SPEAKER_01:When I came when I came to town, I uh uh I I had no idea because I knew my brother to be uh a pretty wild party guy too. Uh he and his friends were just addicted to the gym, addicted to uh you know NANA meetings and uh and you know just growth and all that. Uh so it was uh he he's he saved my life.
SPEAKER_03:That's an amazing story. And was there ever not resentment, but was there ever like, oh my gosh, I can't believe here I am, I'm going through life, I I'm barely hanging on, and I see my you said he was like the mayor, he was highly successful, and and here you are. Was was there ever like how why can't I be that? Or what happened to me?
SPEAKER_01:Or you're just like you were just like I actually didn't I actually never had that because I never I never had the self-esteem to think that I could have any of that stuff. So it was like speaking a foreign language, you're like it made no sense to me whatsoever. Uh, I was a waiter and a bartender, and I'd always been a waiter and a bartender. When I asked my, and it's funny, because when I was got engaged to my my now ex-wife, uh I I told her, I said, you know, she had an ad, you know, uh an advanced degree and was educated and all that. And I said, you know, I may never be anything other than a waiter. And I was in my 30s at the time. Uh, and she said, I love you and I'll marry you, you know, I'm fine. We had no idea that I was going to become super successful. We'd had no idea who this sober guy was capable of becoming. I got my college degree in my 40s. Uh, it, you know, it took me a long time, you know, one, two classes at a time, working full-time, raising kids to get a college degree. But she had no idea that we'd be able, we'd move into a million-dollar house, we'd have nice cars, we'd, you know, we'd be hobnobbing with you know wealthy people. Uh, neither did I. It was whiplash. Uh, because again, I didn't come from that. Uh I didn't, and I didn't know from that.
SPEAKER_03:Just right there. That's like uh one of those lifetime movies or whatnot. Good looking guy, you know, he's just living day by day, marries, marries the woman that and what I find fascinating too, though, is usually a woman that's educated is like, oh, it it it has nothing to do with money or status, it's just in their head, they feel like they need to be married to someone on that that you got later on, you got college and all that. But it it's one of those things that I don't know if if it's stigma, it's it's just something you know how it's biology, it's actually biology that they're is that what it is?
SPEAKER_01:There, you know, they're kind of their internal guide is for someone who can care for them. Yeah, that's changing a lot because women are going further in um in education and in careers than men these days. So women are are are a lot actually either choosing to um not get married, not get into partnerships because of that, you know, wanting that um that safety, uh, or or marrying down so we so is you know, down as far as educational level or income level. Well, because it's it's really shifted in the United States of who's getting educated.
SPEAKER_03:You're you're gonna laugh, but whenever it comes to education, I I tell people I I might have two of two degrees, but I've never judged. I've never the only time I might ask someone is because I want to know who they cheer for on Saturday for college football or whatnot, but I've never I I tell people I've actually gotten more of an education from going to Walden Books that I'm dating myself, and to Books a Million and to Borders, right, and to places like that, and CDs and Audible and going to Barnes and Noble and reading books that way than I ever did going to universities, two universities and whatnot. I've 100%.
SPEAKER_01:And now we have YouTube and we have this exact so many ways to enrich yourself without spending a dime.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, when's when somebody has a knee-jerk, how can you say that when you're it's because I mean the only reason why I had hang-ups, man, I had phobias, and and you know, academia taught me from junior to high in high school. I'm so old it was called junior high, not middle school, that you know, if I didn't get it, if I didn't go to college, I I'd either be doing manual labor or I I would be homeless or or being like uh Richard Gere, like the American gigolo, and I'm only five eight, and then I'd I'd probably be with like having to do stuff with weird men. So that was always the trauma. That was that was the Freddie Krueger story that always got it was never like oh I I need one because you know, yeah, it was always like you know, academia always brainwash, they still do that to you know, because it's a business to 100%. So I mean that that's a story, but she your ex-wife met you. Did she know you at your lowest or when you were no no no we met we met it?
SPEAKER_01:We met in an AA meeting.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, but she knew your story. She accepted you.
SPEAKER_01:She knew my she knew my story, she had her own story.
SPEAKER_03:Uh and we all have stories, bro. We we we've all we've all dabbled in some sort of addiction. We've all done we we've be people have all done self-destructive behavior and in plain and simple. I don't care if somebody's well, I've never had a drink, I've never had nothing. So you you don't you've never had a vice, you've never had something that never served you that you kept on doing over and over. So yeah, no, no, I I my mom was married or dated uh a man that was an alcoholic for most of his life. So that's why I and I'd known people, fraternity brothers, friends. So it's like that's just you overcame that, what whatever it was, because it could you could have been a shopaholic, man.
SPEAKER_01:You could have been like almost a whole I am, I am, I am, and still am a shop.
SPEAKER_03:Well, there you go. Because because you know it, dude. I I always have to go to the gym because I'm I'm always like people always ask me, like I'm I'm obsessive compulsive, and I know that, and that's why I've have I had been I've been borderline alcoholic. I I know with where the line is, and I always well now it's working out. I I haven't taken a rest day in like 90-something days, but it's because of that. I I'm the type that if I wanted to write a third, fourth, fifth book, uh it would be like you know, just mowing it out because uh and that's an addiction. We we can all laugh and go, no, it's not. I I just use it uh the reason why I never got a tattoo is because I would probably look like Tommy Lee and people would be like, Oh, it's I'll sorry, I'll start showing you all my tattoos. Well, yeah, are you are you are you in a rock band? I'm like, no, man, I I I started with one and now I've got two sleeves. So yeah, uh that's why I I know what my my kryptonite is, and that's why with anything, you know, with with drug use, it was but but it was always like you not controlled because there's no such thing as yeah, I'll I'll try popping this pill, I'll I'll try Xanax, or you know, I'll it it was always oh shit, and then yeah, I I can see why it's so amazing, but then it was like, yeah. So congratulations, man. Not not on on getting a divorce. I've been there, done that, but that that's not where the story is, and we're not marriage counselors, and we're we're we're not gonna discuss, you know, how to keep a relationship because you know sometimes people are there for a reason, but it's not it's just for a season, it's just for a year, it's two years, three years, it's whatever the God, whatever the universe, whatever we believe in, you know, not not everybody is supposed to be on our path full time, and for the rest of the world.
SPEAKER_01:We just married off our youngest son, who's a who's a rabbi, and we just we co-parented and co co co uh launched that that wedding uh really well. And now our other son just got engaged, so we're we're doing that again. So we we're we're good, we are good ex uh spouses.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so you you you guys are you guys did the co-parenting thing.
SPEAKER_01:We are we are excellent, we are excellent at our our our commitment to our children and keeping our relationship pristine for that young because they because they always came, they always came first.
SPEAKER_03:100 congratulations, man. So I mean, what what was the fire that dude? What was the spark? Because yes, congratulations. You got i i mean, you you you went from getting clean, finding your why, getting a degree, and then all of a sudden it was like rocket fuel. You even said it yourself, you never saw yourself becoming wealthy. All of a sudden, you know, you're you're the coach, you're the speaker, you're the podcast, you're the author. Pretty soon, you know, you're gonna own a a friggin' soccer team, and you're gonna get the Nobel Peace Prize because you're you're on this rocket level of success. And to me, I mean, congratulations, because believe it or not, most people, man, when they get a little bit of success, the the killer of dreams hits, and it's not corona, it's comfort, and you you did all this in such a short time, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it's so for again, none of this was nothing was planned, everything was an opportunity that I jumped on terrified. So uh when I you know when I waited tables well into my 30s and then decided, you know, like nights, weekends, I was on the fast track. I worked at the four seasons, and they were they're putting me on the fast track for management, which meant someday I'll be able to make$50,000 a year and work all the nights, weekends I I can muster and holidays. And I said, I have to get out of this, I have to figure something out. And I took up my first sales job. And you know, when I took my first sales job, it was the first time I had done anything outside of the restaurant business, and I'm in my mid-30s, late 30s, and it's a completely new world for me. And what I learned through sales was that I had a gift for having people trust me. Uh, when people meet me, they trust me. When and the and the truth was I was just service-oriented always. Uh, so so when my career sales career started to take off, when we had my first kid, my ex-wife made twice the amount of money I made. I made$26,000 a year. She made about$50,000 a year. She said she wanted to stay home with the kid. And I had to step up. So with my first sales job, I doubled my income that year, then I doubled my income the next year, got a new sales job. Again, every single time, terrified. I'm an introvert, I'm a rabid introvert. When I quit drinking, when I was drinking, I was voted best bartender.
SPEAKER_03:Well, well, because that was your crunch, right? Because all of us introverts, somewhere deep down inside, too, we feel like we're not worthy. It's some limiting belief that, oh, and you know, you drank also because, like, oh shit, man, I'm the the the it was like your quote unquote liquid courage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so so what I what what I learned again is if I'm of service, uh I couldn't, I can, I can uh, you know, people people will buy from me. People and I just I just kept getting better and better, and I kept getting better and better jobs. Uh, and every time I took a job, uh again, I would go and do presentations and I would sweat because I was just terrified of being in front of people. And somehow it just always worked. Uh, and my career trajectory just kept growing until it, until it didn't, until until it all, the killer of dreams all crashed down on me again in my late 40s. Uh, everything fell apart. My marriage, my career, my health, everything. And that was because of the childhood trauma that I never dealt with. Uh, right. The the money, the Hugo Boss suits, the cars, everything was covering up, you know, some inner work that needed to be done. The outer work was being done, the inner work wasn't being done. So life decided, hey, Silverman, deal with this shit and uh slam me to the ground. And that's when this version of Mark, a more truer, a more authentic, a more open version of Mark showed up. So that success could not only be monetarily, but success could be in my relationships, in my contribution to the world. Uh and that was that was that was where uh you know joy and uh and uh connection showed up in my late 40s after that crash and burn.
SPEAKER_03:Well, your childhood trauma was never resolved, you just surface level, right? Because I I completely uh we're we have uh similar stories. I crash and burn just like you, because when we're on and it's like we believe that success, we believe that goal, achievements, buying something, validation, but we don't understand the limiting beliefs and that hole that we have from unresolved trauma. It's like a colander, you keep on filling it, but it will never it there's holes everywhere, but you're like, oh, I'm gonna do more, I'm gonna be more, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. And then what happens is you hit you you redline because you redlined. God, the universe is like Mark, you're a you're pretending. This is that you you're a you're you're a fraud. And then you crashed and burned because and I 100% get it. It's because when you all this stuff's unresolved, you're like, this, this, I'm not worthy. So the self-destructive patterns, the self-destructive behavior happens because that's the universe saying it's you're gonna be in this pattern, this continuous pattern, because you could have been like you could have powered through it, you you you would have cried, you would hit you wouldn't have hit rock bottom, but you would have been like bullshitting yourself because you have all the muscles on how to become successful, and then but once you hit that ceiling again, bam, and then it it's like turbulence, and but you finally recognized because heck I I I felt like if I I if I had to cure cancer to love myself, to realize that I am worthy, then you know that was it, and it wasn't until and man, we lie to ourselves because you you you got the expensive car, you know, you've you you've got people blowing smoke up your butt and telling you you are a rock star, and and then you have to fix things because if not, man, and you could have written all these books and you could have kept on, and it would have been like it's funny because I watched, and you know, everybody's like Charlie, we're we're like Charlie Shane. I I just watched his bio on Netflix, and you know, the whole thing because clearly these people have never done the work, they're they're they're they're not into personal and business development, so they're wondering like they're like, why? Why is he you know, he come he comes back like you know, a phoenix, but then he crashes and burns, and he does it over and over. And I'm watching it, it's like because he has all this shit unresolved, and it and it wasn't until he finally realized it was him, you know. Yeah, it ends that yes, he he found himself, but we are people like you and I, and there's plenty that are Charlie Shane, and that's why you and I would laugh, we we look at it because some people that never, you know, it's easier to project oh losers, scumbags, and it's like no, it's people that have unresolved issues, and you and what look at that. I could have done a TED talk, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's it's it's uh it's always there, but for the grace of God, go I always it's exactly and and you'll always have to you right it you it it's there.
SPEAKER_03:Unfortunately, what what happens is you know you have awareness, but when you know you that stupid voice comes in your head, you finally realize you're not like just shut the fuck up, man. None of that bullshit is true, but you have to be louder than that little voice, and I I know you have it. You're like, Mark, who the fuck do you think you are? Why are you doing this? You wrote a book called the right, you can't even lead yourself. You're the dude, trust me. I I I I get it, and especially when oh, can you talk at this or can you do this? And I'm like, Yeah, but then that little voice is like, Are you for real? And dude, we're all worthy. You're dude, you're a rock star, you've always been, even from day one, even with the day, the moment you were born, you know. And the thing is, we you you don't you never have to wait for for absolution, you don't have to wait for Yom Kippur once once a year. You see, I I know it's coming up. I know the high holy days is coming up. You are a rock star to begin with, and and dude, trust me, we all we all feel like there's this atonement, but you know, if God created you and I in his image, he he wanted us to be rock stars, he wanted he wanted you to write this book, this powerful book. And dude, I I wouldn't say that it's powerful if if I I didn't read it because you know how you said about your one sheet that there's filler. There's so many, so much books on leadership. It I mean, huh? We we could read one of 50 John Maxwell's books on leadership. By the way, people, it's the same story over and over. He just rearranges stuff. Once you read one, it only took me like 10 of them to read to find like it's it's amazing, just pick one. But your your book hits, man. And it it does. But you and you're gonna laugh, dude. You are always the leader because to write a book on leadership, you don't need to be a leader, a leader comes from within, man. You know how you'll you'll hear people. Oh, I don't know how I'm I'm I'm not a leader unless someone appoints me. Um you've you've heard that, right? Oh well, I I need you to set up a meeting, a company, and to proclaim, like your Julius Caesar or Augustus Caesar, saying, Omar and Mark are the new managers, and I own businesses for 20 years, it doesn't work that way. A leader will lead, the rest shall follow. We all have that within us, and that's your your book. The the the here, I I even had I wrote this down because I always the three questions, and this is something that you wrote your to yourself and your soul, what do I need to leave behind? Because man, we all have shit that we need to leave behind. Where do I need to level up? The biggest lie people say is that all I'm a rock, I'm a rock star, I'm killing it. Well, if we ask your boss, or if you own the franchise, if we ask the franchise, or what do you need to level up? Once you you ask yourself that, and who do I need to be? Right, right there, man. That that was like what hit me because that the you you blended like personal and business development together, and and I'm a master reading both, and what the the difference is in if you're just business development, just muscle through, man. Screw what you're feeling, just do it, just be the leader within. Am I correct? A lot of business books are like that, especially leadership.
SPEAKER_01:A lot a lot of books talk about the characteristics of a leader, but not how to get those characteristics, yes, is he like the encounter work you need to, and especially if you want to be one, but you don't know how it's vague.
SPEAKER_03:It's like you're you're speaking to me, you're you're speaking to me in Latin. And yes, I might have heard a word or two from, but that's how I feel like a lot of times. It's like those books on wealth and all this on business. Yours, your your your book. Okay, everybody. Once again, the rising leader handbook, Mark J. Silverman. Where do we get this? Because we're we're we're gonna promote it's on, it's on it's on Amazon, it's on Amazon. I know it is. That's why I asked you though.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, you can get you can get it on Amazon. And the other book, the only Only Tens book, well, you know, which is my kind of journey into entrepreneurship with ADHD, uh, that's free on my website. I give that away.
SPEAKER_03:You see, you're you're you're that's being in service, man. And and that's why I I I don't know if I when we spoke on on camera, but it I know before we were recording it, a lot of people don't understand the way to success is to help out others.
SPEAKER_01:100%. We've heard that from Zig Ziggler, but not only the way to success, but the way to fulfillment.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, completely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because again, you know, you can be successful and still be empty, which is what what I I've been fighting against uh ever since my own crash and burn. Uh so so the you know, I often I I'll work with uh very type A types, you pull in the China closet types, and they'll and and they'll challenge me and they'll say, why do I need to become this aware of other people's feelings, of their, of their, of, of, you know, their values and their goals, and why do I need to do all that stuff when I'm already successful? And it's always because I'm the ghost of Christmas future, I'm in my 60s. I know what empty success brings, and I've watched people hit that wall over and over and over again. And I don't want that for you, right? I don't want the addictions, I don't want the broken marriages, I don't want the mental health issues, right? Why not be successful and have all those fruits? And the only way to do that is is through relationship, is through uh you know knowing what's in your heart, it's through connection.
SPEAKER_03:But Mark, uh that you understand that because you don't a lot of times uh entrepreneurs, gurus, public speakers, we want to have this persona that you know we're superheroes that you know while you you have empathy, you do have sympathy too, and you understand that it's not like hey, just show up, do the work, be a leader, have leadership qualities, and you know, let's let's guide your your company, let's guide, let middle go from middle management to rock star to CEO. It it's not that because you see what you see you you see two things. You see who the person that hasn't started yet, the guy living in his car, that's just said, hey man, enough. How do I get out of this mess? Then you also had the hat of, hey, you know what? I made it all, I crashed, I'm back. And I don't, I don't want you to you like you just said it. Uh you know, divorce sucks. Uh you know, it it's it's not fun. You you and I, you know, and there's always that trauma that we never thought we'd leave kids, you know, our our our children with with that. And you know, it's you want to be like, you're gonna laugh at this description. You want to be the Sherpa to Mount Everest. You want these people to climb the mount mountain, and you don't want them to be the what what is it like hundreds of people that had great intentions? Yeah, that they're like, Oh, yeah, I remember the guy with with uh the the purple Columbia jacket, you know, and and they use them as as mile markers or or whatever. So because life life has its hazards, man.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's what it's it's funny that you mentioned that one of my former clients is on Kilimanjaro right now in a wheelchair, climbing Kilimanjaro with a team in a wheelchair. Uh, and I haven't heard anything from him, and I'm curious. Uh, there's no reports, I'm curious how he's doing.
SPEAKER_03:Uh just to be on that, I I love the fact when people are like, oh, that that's like like the easiest mountain to there's no easy that that's like an on the wheelchair, not in anything, but dude, like to you know, it's on people's bucket list. I'm I'm fearful of heights, so it's it's never been on my bucket list. Maybe maybe to to climb a really tall ladder and and and probably do the the Rocky victory sign would be like the only thing, but yeah, no, that just something like that, man. That that's you know what, that's overcoming adversity right there. When well I'm sure his whole life he heard, hey, you can't do this, you can't do that. That that's the story of everybody's life. They mark you you just described your whole life. You know how many times people could have been like, Mark, that's for other people. Mark, are you gonna get in sales? Dude, you're you're one hell of a bartender, man. You're like the the Sam Malone, man. You're like a real Sam Malone, dude. You're like Woody. You you you got a great personality. Own it, be an amazing bartender. You can make so much money, you can own your own bar, you can do this. Sales, that's that's for for outgoing, that's for talkative people, that's for people trying to well, the ones that think it's insidious. Mark, you're not selling timeshare, you're not selling used cars. I I don't I don't know why people don't realize everything's a sale, but you know, they they go go quick to that. You know, they could have been like, Oh, Mark, you know, why get married? Why marry her? You know, she's got she's doing this. Mark, you're old. There, there's this story. Um, that and it even if I didn't go to LSU or my oldest daughter, there's a guy, 66-year-old guy, name his nickname's Tuba Kent. He's a freshman, he learned how to play the tuba three years ago, just so that he could be in the marching band.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, have fun.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and he's a full-time student, retired at 66. And it's like when you hear stories of that, well, here's a question for you, Mark. Why is it we always love to hear stories of overcomers like you? Like, oh my gosh, whatever crap I overcame. This 66-year-old guy, we love the Rocky story, the Rocky beating Rocky Balboa beating Apollo Creed and beating everybody else. The David and Goliath, old test.
SPEAKER_01:Do you really want an answer for that?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I I want your answer. I I want, I don't care if it's like fucking like you cured cancer, and it's like something like, oh my god, I can't believe. I want to know, dude. I I'm one of those guys. If if I saw, tell me what is the honest answer and why we can't see why we can't see ourselves as that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I believe that we all are are desperately craving connection. I believe we're desperately behaving uh uh craving connection with other human beings, and those stories crack us open, it makes us uh uh available to being vulnerable when you see someone else overcome something that deep. That's I think that's why when people connect over over pain, over tragedy, it's why I watched your TED talk and said, Okay, got this guy. I'm good with him. You know, he and I he and I know what adversity are, and then we can have a connection. I think people are starving for it these days.
SPEAKER_03:Starving, but why can't why can't we all be our own hero? Why can't we write and you and I have written her, and we keep on writing chapters but so many people right now, you and I are doing this, they're watching Major League Baseball package, there's they're on Netflix, they're working on their stream and not their dream.
SPEAKER_01:I I again it's seductive, you know. The electronics, the the dopamine, the cheap dopamine, all that stuff is so seductive, you know. So say it, it takes uh it takes a herc, again, they're for the grace of God go ahead. It takes a Herculean effort to eat healthy food when you know you're advertised crap all the time. It takes Herculean effort to put down the phone and decide to be with your own thoughts, which is one of the hardest things in the world to do. The it just it takes conscious effort, and the world is doing everything it can to keep you from doing that. So, you know, again, that's why you and I people go have podcasts. I preach this all the time and remind people and tap them on the head, tap them on the shoulder. You're losing your life, you're losing your attention, you're losing, you know, it's just draining out of you. Uh, take it back.
SPEAKER_03:Not only take it back, but you're in your 60s, I'm in my 50s. Tomorrow's never guaranteed at all at all. It goes by like that. Uh I I remember bitching that I sleeping in college, like I said, overrated, and you know, wanting to be like, you know, a grown-up. And I never thought in a million years I would go from high school sleeping in high school on my desk in accounting or whatever, Mrs. Carter accounting, to be 52. But you know, and it goes by like that. And it and people will lie to themselves and go, Oh, I got plenty of time. Time the one, tomorrow's never guaranteed, and it goes by fast, especially when you're pissing it away. You know, and you know, like I always tell people, if you have time to scream, then you have time to work on your dreams. I'm I mean, you're a person that they can make a movie about. I know it sounds goofy, but but it's true. You've over overcome adversity. You're gonna you're gonna laugh. The the first line, and it could you you could have been like wanting to sell like that you created a vacuum cleaner or or just something really boring. But when I read your your first bio that your your publicist sends out 135 homeless living in his car, to be calm. That's the major word to be calm. And that was the hook. That was the hook, man, because you know everybody, everybody bitches and moans about the cards that they're dealt with. You're like, man, you had cards missing that one time in your deck, man. And the dealer, if we were playing blackjack, the dealer had two a face card and you had a five or a six showing. But you know, you didn't pack it up, you didn't pack it in, you didn't say, hey, you know what, it it and most people would. A leader. I know what you're gonna tell me. Most people don't like this answer. Is it true? Not everybody's born to be a leader.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think any no, I don't I don't I think leadership is is something that's learned. I think leadership is something that, you know, like again, George Washington wasn't a leader, he owned a uniform. That's the reason he became a general because he owned a uniform and someone else didn't. He lived into leadership, he grew into that. Uh it's uh it's it's yeah, and I I think a lot of people think that people are born leaders, uh, and that they either have the gene or they don't.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I don't know what this gene is because uh there there's have you noticed there's no like oh quantify, you know how like Malcolm Gladwell or something, the 10,000 hours, or maybe it's because you were born in January or or late December. You know, there's always that's good, that's good.
SPEAKER_01:That's for soccer and hockey.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes, but there's there's nothing that we could quantify and go, oh, you know, or I can be like, well, I'm I'm a Leo, and I know there's plenty of Leos that are leaders. Well, no shit. You could there's I don't know, there's 12 signs. I'm sure there's 12 signs of leaders, that's just a myth. What what brings me nails like nails to a chalkboard is when people say, Well, you know what? There's a reason why there's chiefs, there's a few chiefs and plenty of Indians, because not every Indian can become a chief. And to me, that's such a limiting, that's such a piss poor mindset to say, Well, I wasn't born with a skill set. Well, to me, yeah, I've always been the eternal optimist. Well, then why don't you just keep on acting or being, then eventually, you know, you'll you'll become a great leader. Entrepreneurs horrible. Were were you amazing in sales your first day?
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, I was terrified. I was I was terrible. I wouldn't, I wouldn't call people, I wouldn't bother, I didn't want to bother people. I wouldn't ask for the sale, I wouldn't ask for information, I wouldn't bother anybody. Uh it wasn't until again, it wasn't until I figured out my special sauce that I became successful. Once I stopped trying to be a salesman like everybody else and realized how I connect with people, how I talk to people, then I could apply the sales skills that I was learning, ask for the sale, find information, you know, all that stuff. But uh it wasn't until I found, you know, how do how do how do I relate to the world? How do I relate to this? Same thing with leadership. Every leader doesn't have to be different. Uh leaders can lead with different qualities. Uh again, I'm I'm a you know, I'm hopefully a kind person. Uh my leadership style would be more uh democratic and I would be more apt to be stepped on. I would be more a more wish, like if I left my own devices, I'd be a more wishy-washy leader, and people would be nervous under me if I didn't learn the skills to be decisive, to be to be clear in my communication, to create agreements, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03:But you wouldn't be a, you know how some people, oh, you have to be like a dictator, or you have to be a screamer. I I love this when, like, do you see why that coach is successful? Is because he's a screamer. And it's like, well, if that was the case, if everybody that could scream like a crazy person, then we would just write books on how to scream as loud as possible and and how to look like you're getting ready to have an aneurysm. Maybe maybe you see on the surface that's that, but you know, there's a million other qualities, and not every not every successful coach, not every successful entrepreneur is a screamer. I I know I in 20 years of being a business owner, you know, that it was very rare for me to just be like, ah, let's scream at the top of my lungs. So I it's it's always really about your your personality, like what you said. And the number one thing that people when you said, well, it's to connect, selling, and it's well, that's why we're we're doing a great you our conversation's like just two guys over club soda. Ah, you see, you thought I was gonna say a beer, and it's because what's lacking, Mark, is connection, lacking just having open conversations. We're always selling. A leader has to sell. You have to lead by selling people to do something, but you have to understand their world, and and what people fail to realize is these days they believe I can sell because I memorized everything that this problem. Well, congratulations, you know. Let me throw up on someone on all the benefits, well, or or let let me show them how smart I am by by being the hero. And it's never let me listen to them. Why do they want me? Why do they want my services? And then let me tell you a compelling reason on why I have the answer. But you can't be yammering away and like be completely closed off. It it's funny because I I I've had this a couple, it was like two people that their publicist said, Yeah, they they canceled because I'm spiritual. And I'm like, well, I I didn't realize I was a priest, or that that was my omission statement. If if I I'm that clearly, you know, that's not my that's not my goal, that's not what we talk about. I I do believe everybody should have some faith in whatever it is, because when shit gets rough, keep on praying. But but in in general, if you think about it, all all three major religions have the same God, so it's it's really not that far-fetched. And if if you know, if if you're a Hindu, Mark, I wouldn't be saying, God, God, God, God, just like I know you're Jewish, somebody like, oh, you know, Jesus Christ did this and that. No, man. But it's connecting, and and that's what people don't realize. When everybody, when they're angry, too, you can't understand someone's world. You can't connect when you come from a place of anger. Imagine we we'd have such a shit episode, we'd have a shit conversation. Uh I know you're apologetic earlier, but imagine if I'm like like holding grudge. Oh, this should have been done a month ago or whatever. Not today. Mark, you're you sold me out. But you know, people come like that, you know? It's worse on social media. It's like you own a business, and this is how you plan on connecting, is by by throwing up your your belief system or telling people they're and I I have friends, I I had a really good friend owned a business in South Florida, and you know, he I guess he didn't understand that we we live in a time where everything's split. Do you want to upset half be vanilla when it comes to unless you're Hobby Lobby on the on the right or In N Out Burger or Starbucks or friggin' Disney World, if you're so friggin', you know, that if you're so successful and your product is so amazing that nobody gives a crap, then be that. But if you're gonna be yammering away at your political views and and beliefs to your clients and customers, you're gonna turn off half half the people instead of just being understanding. You and I could never can we couldn't connect even if we had we voted for the same last five presidential candidates. Who cares, man? But that's how people operate. And and I I know you you know that that's why it was a simple question, but a lot of people believe a leader was born this way, or no, man, it's it's due. If you saw me as a business owner the first two years, you'd be like, Holy shit, this guy made it to 20. And it's because you had to you have to suck at something to become great. I mean, people read the history books, but if they read, you know, they they read one paragraph about like George Washington being a he never lost any battles. There was never a time that we things looked bleak. If if there wasn't a time that things looked bleak, Benedict Arnold wouldn't have switched sides. We we all suck as a leader, we all suck. Mark, my my first six months of doing podcasts, people would laugh at me and say we could do a drinking game because I would use an all that as a filler and all that and all that. Well, it's like okay, guys, maybe I might say it one time, you can't get drunk before you'd be like in a coma, and that's because it's there's awareness, but to be good, you have to have that, you have to have connection. My my first episode sucked because it was all and all that, but it was also hey, let me let me let me vent about whether it was an ex-girlfriend. It's like we're here to talk about you, we're we're here to promote this book, The Rising Leader. Once you read this, trust me, you're gonna want to buy the second book, the first book, only tens. You yes, you can have the digital copy, but why not help out Mark? Because the more people more people he helps out, it it's it's it's to reciprocate. I can't say reciprocal, but that word for some odd reason, even though I have a degree in communications. So you you see, that's that's it. That that right there is a public speaker and a man that can so eloquent with words. So, yes, I I want people to to buy your books, I want people to listen to your podcasts. Where where can is it Apple, Spotify? It's on all those.
SPEAKER_01:It's all on all those. It's the rising leader podcast. And you if you go to my website, markjsilverman.com, everything's there, the free books.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I I know it is. I I I cyber stalk my guests. It might not look like I I do, but I I I know every every I I try to in a good way, not like cyber stalk your ex-girlfriend and your ex-wife, like a lot of you people do. But man, that thank you for this. Is the this is the one last question. Ultimate, what is to you, what does an ultimate leader look like? What what is I we're always working that can I constant, never-ending improvement in every aspect of of our life. But in your definition, what is the ultimate nirvana?
SPEAKER_01:I can tell you, I can tell you how I know someone was a good leader. And uh, you know, if you know, over a long, long career, when they all they talk about is what a privilege it was to work with the people they work with, what a privilege it was to see people through this goal, to see people through this life challenge, what a privilege it was to have the mantle put on them. Whenever, whenever I hear a leader talking about what a privilege it has been to serve the company, the people, the mission, all of those things, I know that they had the right um um perspective on leadership.
SPEAKER_03:What's crazy is, and definitely not a political thing, but over the past like 10 presidents that we've had, 15, I don't know if all the recorded you can listen, and there's some that's me, me, me, me, me, and I did that, and there's a lot that you describe them perfectly. Uh even even people like and it's he he was seen as an amazing leader at the time, and then it was all touch and go. Jack Walsh, he was one that would always talk about G. Like, and he wasn't like, Whoa, G was shit till I got there, or Lee Iakoco. He wasn't like, ah, I did the Mustang for Ford, and you know what? I'm a rock star, and that and that's what that's what I really do love, is people that more leaders that it's more we, or I couldn't be here if it wasn't for them. And you know, uh here's one example, Warren Buffett. Could he have done it without Charlie Munger or everybody else that he's had work Berkshire Hathaway? I'm sure, but he'll never do that. He was always well, Charlie, Charlie, Charlie, always about the company, always, and that I have to agree 100%. You see, great minds think alike. Mark, I love you, and I I had to bust your chops on the because believe it or not, other people that have missed and have rebooked, they're like, oh, shit happens. You're like, oh my gosh, and it's like, dude, and I I would have bought your I would have listened to the book, I would have bought the book either way, but you giving it to me anyways, that just showed me and man, you and I, we know life life is meant to be lived, it's not rocket science, there's no no no open heart surgery, and like I said, I I do believe it was meant to be for today, anyways. Man, it was an amazing conversation. Thank you for your time, thank you for the opportunity. I want you to have an amazing new year. It's coming up.
SPEAKER_01:My girlfriend's Amy Schwartz, so that's why I I think I I think there are I think there are grandchildren in my 2026. So uh plural. So I I I think it's gonna be an exciting. Fighting next year.
SPEAKER_03:Well, great a new chapter. And and you know what, Mark? I expect you to write a book on how to be an amazing grandparent. And how to how how how you know you you go by chapters. Six sixty for some. Oh, that's retired. A person that says, Oh, I can't wait till I retire, that's a lazy person that never had any goals, no dreams. So I know you you have like a good 30 years left of you of things that you want to accomplish, and plenty of adversity that you want to crush. Because the more adversity Mark has, he crushes it. Thank you for your time, brother.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. This was such a pleasure. It's great to connect with you.
SPEAKER_00:What if it did work? Right now you can make the choice to never listen to the negative voice no more. Don't have this prison to escape. It's my own mind. I was trapped inside that prisoner for long time. To make it happen, you gotta take action. Just imagine what if it did work.