What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Finding Strength In Suffering: Faith, Waiting, And What Truly Heals
What if the hardest seasons are the ones that actually teach us how to live? That’s the thread we follow with author and chaplain Sam Wegner as he opens up about walking through his wife’s stage 4 cancer, months that turned into years, a long job loss, and the daily choice to trust a God who doesn’t flinch when the ground shifts beneath us.
Sam shares how “the weight of the wait” exposes our craving for control and invites a sturdier kind of hope—one grounded not in outcomes but in the unchanging goodness of God. We talk about why affliction can be a teacher, how milestones like “just get to Easter” can disorient when we outlive them, and why real rest is an act of surrender rather than a luxury. He tells a raw story of waking up drowning in dread, breaking the spiral with first principles—God is good, God provides—and finding peace that didn’t fix the circumstances but freed his heart to keep going.
We also get practical: the difference between positivity and true hope, how to recognize when your body is carrying what your soul won’t release, and why asking for prayer to endure may be more powerful than asking for the storm to end. Sam walks us through The Weight of the Wait—available in print, Kindle, and audiobook in his own voice—and the listener stories that continue to shape him, including a reminder that avoidance may feel safe but keeps us from healing.
If you need a reason to keep moving when answers are slow and the stakes are high, this conversation is a companion for the long road. Subscribe, share this with someone who’s waiting for news, and leave a review with one insight that stayed with you. Your words help more people find hope that holds.
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All right, everybody, another day, another dollar, another one of my favorite episodes of my favorite podcast. Yes, it's my own podcast. What if it did work with me? I've got an author. I got a man. He's a legendary man just by after after I read his book and listened to it. It's definitely an amazing read, an amazing story. Sam Wagner. He's the author, been involved in ministry his entire life, the son of missionaries to Italy and a graduate of the Appalachian Bible College in Mount Hope, West Virginia. Served as a pastor, teacher, elder, and a small group leader. Currently a chaplain for the young adults at Faith Bible Church in the Woodlands, Texas, who affectionately know him as Uncle Sam. Enjoys playing complex board games, hosts a multi- multiple-day gaming event every year over New Year's. Sam and Crystal, his wife at 35 years, have four children, three-grandchildren, and more importantly, four cats. Four cats.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my goodness. You know, um, my wife hasn't met a stray that she doesn't hasn't fallen in love with, which worked out well for me, incidentally, but uh um but yeah, we she she loves her cats.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's okay. Your wife would love this story. I all of a sudden became allergic to cats. I didn't know about it and kept on going to doctors and specialists, and I'm like, Am I dying? Is this cancer? Is is this something I undiagnosed because I wasn't getting better? Ear, nose, and throat. And then just just one day, they're like, We need we're gonna send you to get an allergy exam. And cats was the number one thing, and everybody's like, Well, did you get rid of the cat? And I'm like, No, I love the cat. I'd yeah, I got shots, I had to give shots, they give you shots like three times a week, and then they clean you off the two, and then once a week, and then once every two weeks, and then quarterly until you know, finally, not not that you're cured, but yeah, and then I had a carrier on like an epi pen, but yeah, the the the that's that's unconditional love right there.
SPEAKER_03:There is that's that's what we're talking about right there. That's what we're talking about right there.
SPEAKER_00:So the weight of what the weight of the weight. Uh I I love the book, it it's actually a compelling story, and not only that, but you just the way you go about talking about hope and just talking about the fantasy, because maybe maybe it is like the song Pinocchio that you know we we b we we we watch all that and we actually believe like that's reality, even though we say no, no, it's not. That's why we watch the hallmark.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. We we we want to know that everything is going to work out the way we want it to in the end, and uh, you know, the the reality is is that God has a different perspective on what's going on in our lives than what we do, and a lot of that has to do with um how we view Him, what we understand to be good, and quite frankly, who's in control. Um and uh we we tend to believe that we can be in control of our circumstances, and there are a lot of things that we do have control over, but there's an awful lot that we do not. And when we get faced with those things that we can't control and we don't like them, then our primary instinct is to blame God for it. Uh sometimes he is the one who actually puts those things in our lives, uh, but uh they're when he does it, they're always good. And that's where the conflict really comes into play, right? Because um, you know, I don't know what your opinion on Brussels sprouts is. I actually kind of happen to like Brussels sprouts, but it took me a while. But uh, you know, if if you're if you don't like Brussels sprouts and God wants you to eat some Brussels sprouts, well then uh somebody's opinion's gotta give on that, right? And that's that's where a lot of our conflict comes from when uh when it comes to waiting. And particularly that was my issue with waiting. I didn't like waiting, I didn't think it was was good, and he had to teach me otherwise.
SPEAKER_00:Well, because sometimes we need we need adversity, though. We do need it to grow.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Um uh, you know, one of the turning points in in my whole philosophy about what was going on in my life um was centered around um that passage in in Psalm 119. And uh Psalm 119, 71 says, It was good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statutes. And I thought, what affliction? Good, I mean, what kind of nonsense is that? Um and you know, but I I came to understand, and I'm still learning it, uh, there's no doubt about that, that um affliction is what reinforces my dependency upon God, which is important because when um when I'm doing that and when I'm working through affliction by trusting him, that's when I actually grow. And that's when I actually see things in my self change, and then things in my life change, and how I my circumstances may not, but how I perceive them definitely does.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody has circumstances and everybody has adversity, and everybody's going through things, but just a little pivot and the way we perceive them. Sometimes I think life happens. It's it's like the person that's like, Well, there can't be a God because my mother died or my father died. We were all meant to die, we're only here for a short term. It it's not we we can't blame God because no nobody has beaten the reaper. We all have the a short life expectancy, right?
SPEAKER_03:Right, you know, and and you know, the Bible's very clear about why all that stuff happens and why why that exists. Um you know, we we have this sin problem that needs to be dealt with, and that's um and that's what introduced death into this world. And um Jesus Christ died on on the cross, so he could take that punishment for our sin, and we can have an e an eternal life with God, uh that that starts actually right now when you know when we believe. And uh for those of us who have um who believe that and who've who have uh adopted that way of thinking, um the the trick is then to try to reconcile um all this other stuff that happens around us, a lot of which is genuinely evil. It's it is sincerely bad. And trying to separate those things uh from the the things that we think are bad because they're just our preferences or um we have a limited perspective on on what's going on, and um, you know, things like cancer is one of those that falls into that category. Um so you know, when when my wife came down with breast cancer 10 years ago, we started on that journey, and I thought I was doing okay with it. Uh, but then um about five or six years into it, when we thought we were just about to get out of it, um the cancer came back, it metastasized to her bones, and um uh became a stage four kind of situation. And that's when I had to start dealing with my issues um that were uh uh brought up by the fact that I was looking straight in the face of the fact that my wife was eventually going to die from this disease. And interestingly enough, even though there was uh uh some grief involved in that, quite a bit actually, um, my biggest issue wasn't with the fact that my wife was going to die. I believe she was going to heaven, I believe I'm going to be there too, and so this is all well and good, and this is, you know, actually works out well, very well for her in the end. My issue was with how long it was taking to get there. And there were mul there have been multiple stages where we thought, you know what, this is gonna be it. This is gonna be it. This is gonna be it. And yet she's still here. And the at a certain point, um I was like, you know what, I can't I can't deal with this thing constantly hanging over my head. You know, uh there's a there's a phrase in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol where uh you know when when the guys come around to collect you know his charity contribution for the less fortunate, and Ebenezer Scrooge refuses it and says, you know, that people who um people who can't afford to live ought to go to debtors' prisons. And the one of the guys says, well, many would rather die than go to a debtor's prison. And Scrooge says, if they would rather die, they should do so and decrease the surplus population. You know, and that was that was kind of my attitude towards it. You know, I never I never said, Oh, hi hon, um, why don't you just go ahead and die and decrease the surplus population so I can get on with my life? Um, because you know, I'm a nice guy, I'm a good husband, and we don't say things like that, we don't think things like that. So I just felt it instead. And that's where I started to get burdened down with the heaviness of it all.
SPEAKER_00:Well, just the just the fear of the unknown. It's like you mentioned in in the book that what's what's better or what's worse, dying instantly or getting the diagnosis you you have such and such cancer, stage four can be breast cancer, it can be anything. Oh, and by the by the way, that your your prognosis is you have two years to live. Now, uh I mean which one would I rather it that's that's always a tough one to answer because the instantaneous, like you know, you you you still maybe know, oh my gosh, but you know, I didn't throw tomorrow's trash day. You know, I'm sure of like a lot of because if you think about something like September 11th, oh yeah, people went to work or they're going to the World Trade Centers, they or boarding those planes, they weren't thinking, you know, this is my last day here.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, when I when I went to work on that day, I certainly didn't think so. And even after you know, planes hit the towers, I wasn't particularly concerned about it because I was in Chicago at the time, and that was happening in New York City, you know, it was just another news item until you know things you know obviously became a little bit more severe than that. But yeah, I I mean for most people it doesn't happen like that. For most people, it happens in you know, um, a car accident or somebody just has a heart attack out of the blue, and um um one day he's there and the next day he's not. Um, I have had a really, really good friend who uh was um had lunch with his daughter and his wife. His daughter was getting married in a couple of months, and they were sitting down having lunch together. Uh the ladies got up to go to the floor to take care of some arrangements with the uh regarding the wedding. He went downstairs to exercise on his treadmill. When the ladies came back about an hour and a half later, he was dead on the floor. And stuff like that. Um, when that stuff happens, it's shocking, it's very abrupt and disruptive. And you're like, oh man, now I wish I would have done this and I could have done that and the other, and all those types of regrets come in. Well, that's one type of it, uh, one type of burden to deal with. But then there's this other thing that um yeah, uh at one point we thought Crystal was going to have nine months to live.
SPEAKER_00:And wait, was that what the the prognosis the oncology was?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so well, so what she told us was that um this was the our last ditch drug before she before we went on drug trials. Um and some people were on it longer, some uh some not so long. The average was about nine months. And that's really all they'll tell you in those type of situations. Um but nine months was the target. And at that point, my daughter was expecting her second child in about six months. And so we were like, okay, get through Christmas, get through the birth of the baby, get to Easter. And my wife even told the Lord, she said, you know, if you just get me to Easter, I'm okay with that. Right? I can be done at that point. You can take me anytime you want to after that. Just all I'm asking for is Easter. Well, that first Easter came, and then the second one, and then the third one, and we've had a couple more since then. And she's still here. And um what happens when you get set up like that is that you're you project out a certain way, a certain distance into the future, right? And we've all got plans, we're all thinking about what's coming next, and and those type of things. And we don't really understand how important it is to have those milestones out there to be aiming for. When those are gone, when when you've hit that last milestone, it's it's incredibly disorienting because now you got to figure out why you why to get up tomorrow morning, you know, why you still need to live. And um so that's another way where hope comes into play. And it kind of underscores how important hope is in our lives, just on a normal basis. But I've I've stopped asking that question is it better to know or is it better to not to know? Um the the fact of the matter is um we um we all are on a timetable, some of us have a little bit more information about when that's gonna happen than uh than the rest of us. But I think that if it takes that kind of event to kind of uh wake you up and make you think about how you're living your life and what you're doing with your life, um knowing when you're gonna die isn't really gonna change things a whole lot.
SPEAKER_00:No, but but also a lot of times too, people have this misconception that not that they're gonna be immortal, but that they've got plenty of time, that they're gonna be the next George Burns or Betty White and live to to 100. I'm my my grandfather's still alive, he's 101, but most that's very rare. And I I tell everybody this today might actually be your last day.
SPEAKER_03:It's it's someone's there's people there are there are a lot of people just you know, just take a glance at the obituary page, and you're you're gonna, you know, they they publish them every day of the week.
SPEAKER_00:Plenty of perfectly healthy people, yeah. Yeah, you know, plenty of things. Well, yeah, I'll I'll I'll start going, I'll go back to church soon. Maybe maybe after the college football season or the NFL. There, there's always, yeah, there's there's tomorrow, or I've I've got time with my family, my friends, I've got time for all my affairs, because I everybody acts like they've they've got this crystal ball, and well, you know, why technology will we'll all live to a hundred. And it's like we we've all known people died that have died as children, birth, infants. There's there's no no rhyme or rhythm on what when it's your time to go to heaven. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it's important to I I think what that does is underscore the importance of first of all um making sure that you know that you're prepared for what comes next. And I believe the Bible is pretty clear on uh what that is and how how that works. And then you've got to what I'm learning and trying to get better at is that having that kind of hope, a hope that endures past your eventual and imminent death. Um it impacts the way you live your life right now. And um there are there are a lot of things that we get hung up on and a lot of things that we waste an awful lot of time and energy on that in the grand scheme of things just don't matter. And um it's important, I believe, to um invest your your time and your energy into things that have lasting value. So uh for example, I was at a uh um I was at a book event um about a month or so ago, and and uh um a young couple approached my table and they they saw the title of the book, The Weight of the Weight. And uh the guy came over and picked it up and was looking at the back and saw that it um had to do with you know uh my wife's cancer journey and um and that kind of thing. And he indicated uh to his girlfriend wife, I'm not sure who she was to him, but um he tried to call her over and say, Hey, you should take a look at this. And she was like, No, she was physically backing up, like she could not come close to the table. Um and as if there was some invisible barrier that was keeping her away there. And um as they talked, she finally confessed uh to me that uh her her mother had died six years ago and still um was so it was she hadn't resolved that pain yet, so much so that even the very word cancer triggered her, and she wouldn't even come close to my book because it had that word on it. And my heart just really went out to her because um that is that is such a horrible and debilitating way to live. And uh I believe that there's um much greater um I believe there are answers to the questions that she obviously has, and I believe that there's a a much more powerful way to to live life, but you've gotta in order to do that, you've got to face some of those demons.
SPEAKER_00:Well, she has to let go. She doesn't understand that she's creating cancer herself with holding on to that anger, holding on to that pain, resentment, making becoming better. Yeah, yeah. You know, just a lot of times though people start carrying it and then they act like it's their cross to bear.
SPEAKER_03:And it's like no, you can put it down. So one of the so one of the concepts I talk about in the book is this whole idea of rest. And um I I I kind of present a a cycle of connected ideas that I think the um the the Bible teaches about how we're supposed to, about the relationships between all these different concepts. And um and rest is a necessary element of that because when we rest, you you have to put stuff down, you have to relinquish control. Um you just think about it, every night when you lay down and go to sleep, um, your eyes are closed, you're not aware of what's going on around you, you know. Um that's why, you know, people who are gonna steal, they come in at night because they're you know um people aren't up and consciously moving about and all that kind of stuff. And basically what you're doing is you're saying, yeah, I'm going to relax my mind and my body and not worry about things because I'm in my home, I'm in my own bed, I am safe here, right? And when you can't let those things go, when you're concerned about, oh, there's a guy in the next room who might harm me, or there's uh this issue that I've got going on in my life that I can't stop thinking about, what happens? You can't sleep, you can't rest, because in order to do that, you've got to set those things down. And that is a um and and what uh what hope does, what confidence in the goodness of God does, is it allows you to leave things that are in his control because he never sleeps. And um and that is where you actually find those necessary moments of rest that are that are essential uh to uh keeping you healthy not only physically and emotionally, but also spiritually.
SPEAKER_00:To me, spirituality, hope, it's uh it's positive. Hope means there's something positive that you believe not that life is happening to us, it's happening for us, and that it's like the footprints in the sand. I I the person that's bitter will be like, Oh, there's only one set because Jesus left and I had a walk by myself or whatever story they love. The because I I've heard people say that, yeah. And instead of you know, he he was with you. You're you're never alone. Like whenever you hear some, usually a a person that's either really going through a lot, or those that have lost all hope, all spirituality, they'll say, I'm alone. Nobody's ever alone. Not only do you have the company with the person you grew up with, and that you should love a lot, but then you Jesus is always there, God is always there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but we isolate ourselves, right?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yes, because we that's that's what we love to do, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And and that really, you know, and that really uh again uh comes down to an issue of control, who's in charge of my life. Um and am I comfortable with that, with that answer? And um and also whether or not you believe that that God is good. Um, I'll tell you, I was prepping for another one of these podcasts. Um tell my story about a week ago, and uh um I woke up in the morning and I was just really I was really drowning in dread. Um I've been unemployed for 18 months now, and um our uh Cobra medical benefits are set to run out at the end of this month in a very few days. And uh the savings we've been living on, they're dwindling quickly. And you know, um my wife's um doctor bills are still pretty significant. So being without insurance, it's a big deal. So I started spiraling on these things, nothing new, but on that particular day, for whatever reason, I woke up and it was really hit me hard. And um I was thinking about, oh my gosh, I've got to sell the house. But if I sell the house, how am I gonna finance a new house if I don't have a job? How am I even gonna get into uh a rental without proof of income and blah blah blah? And it's desperate. And I what's the answer? What's the answer? And I you I could just feel myself spiraling out of control. It got so bad to that. I started weeping out loud, and I got in. The shower so that the sound of the water would would mask my sobbing, so I didn't wake up my wife. That's how bad it got. And I was like, no, this is this is not right. This is not true. And so where I started was going back to the very basics. God is good. He can only be good. If he's not good, he's not God. He doesn't lie. He has promised to provide for me. I've got to believe that. Um and not only do I believe it for the future, I've seen it time and time and time again in my life. So why would he stop now? And um and when I realized that my situation was not going to get desperate in a few months when you know when the money runs out, it was already desperate. And so uh when I set that down and said, okay, I obviously can't handle this. God, you're gonna have to handle this, then that's when then the peace came back. That's when I reestablished my hope. And I was able to go talk to that um to that podcaster with confidence and genuine hope, because um I had been able to rest from a burden that I shouldn't have been carrying in the first place. And that is truly life-transforming. Um I when I look at people like that that that young lady that came up to the book table, and so many others that I I come into contact with. And obviously, um when you're in the cancer community, there are so many people at so many different stages along the continuum. There are people who are who are hopeful, people who are desperate and angry and bitter, and all that kind of stuff. You see it all. And I'm like, you know, that is just no way to live. Um and I it it it shocks me, quite frankly, that suicide rates aren't higher than what they actually are, because um people who don't have hope and don't have a God that they can go to and lay those things down are just ticking time bombs. And my heart goes out to them because it doesn't have to be that way.
SPEAKER_00:Well, suicide rate probably too. The um eternal damnation is one of those things that we we learn about. So if you think of it.
SPEAKER_03:That's that's a separate concept. That's a separate conversation, Omar. I don't want to get into that one right now.
SPEAKER_00:When you ask, you're like, why is it higher? I'm sure that plays a part. Yeah. I mean, everybody's thought about it, but that's one of the that that's that's one of the things, you know, that that always pops into my head. Yeah. And you see what what I love about your story, and about your wife's story, and just the story that you just told us no wavering faith. It it's not like no no matter what, there was always, yes, I believe. Because a lot of people blows me away.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, it it blows me away too, because uh it this is um uh this is this is not natural.
SPEAKER_02:Well, no, but I'm a problem solver, right?
SPEAKER_03:You know, all those all those ministries that you read about in my bio, that most of that has been in volunteer work. Um I've spent 27 years in the IT industry. Um, I'm I'm a problem solver. I love to solve problems. Um so when um whether it's a work situation, a life situation, or even one of those board games. I mean, that's why I love board games because they're just problems sitting there waiting to be solved. So I've really had to uh go through an extended process of of understanding and getting to the point of I have to trust because there are a lot of problems I can't solve. And um not only does it um disrupt my life and um uh and how I feel, and I actually make a reference to to one of those uh situations where I gave myself trigger fingers because I was clenching my fist so hard in my sleep that the pain of doing that woke me up. Um so um this type of peace and and and confidence, it's real, it's genuine, but it blows my mind too, because that's not how who I am naturally, that's all by the grace of God.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but then I love everything about it because think about it this way so much hurt, anger, resentment that's out there in this world is because they don't have a relationship, they don't have a relationship with God, they don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That's true. That that that's something that I I mean I've been there, I was one of those people after you graduate and you read the statistics. Oh, well, it says, you know, the higher higher the education that you know the percentage of being an atheist. And yes, maybe I left God for a couple years, but he never left me. And I know that, and I I know Jesus Christ is there, and it it's funny, like what you said, put put that cross down whenever it comes to stress, anger, all these all these stories, whatever the trauma is that we and yeah, you're right. The the only cross that really matters, you know, that uh almost uh but like two thousand years ago, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, and it's uh um it it really is a um it it it really has uh is one of the main reasons why um I've come to appreciate the affliction. Um we have people all over the world that are praying for Crystal's cancer for my job situation. Um we get asked about it on a regular basis because there's so many people out there that are uh have been praying fervently for a long time for these situations to be resolved. And uh when when people ask us about it and they want to know what they can do or how they can pray for us and that kind of thing, I tell them, I say, don't pray for the affliction to be removed. Because that is how uh my heart stays tuned in to the to the grace of God and stays dependent upon God. Uh what uh what I need prayer for is to continue to be a light or testimony um to walk through these difficult situations um without demonstrating the love and the grace and the peace that God has given me because that glorifies Him. It's not about me, it's about Him. And uh, you know, that's been my primary concern throughout this entire 10-year cancer journey. Um, it was my primary concern when things started to go south for me um on the job before I eventually lost that that job. And it's what I want people to see and hear now um in it while we're still in the midst of it, still in the thick of it, um, is that um our circumstances don't define who our God is. Our circumstances drive us to dependency upon our God. And um the the result that you see here today is is real and genuine because that's what real hope does. And that's so that's why um I'm trying to get the get the word out about the book because you're right, Omar. There are a lot of people who need that hope. In my opinion, everybody needs that kind of hope. And everybody is waiting on something, everybody has something that's hanging over their heads that they wish would just get resolved already. And it may be as relatively minor as you know, a third grade math test, and it can be as big as um having to care for an adult special needs child, or having to um care for aging parents who have memory issues. Um and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. So regardless of where you are or where it is on that scale, um the the kind of hope that I found in the scriptures, and more so the understanding now that I have and that I that I describe in the book about why this stuff happens, what's God's purpose in it, um, how that actually works towards uh the end of making us more like Jesus Christ. Um and what's more the the grace that God shows us for the times that we have to go around and around and around on the same things before we finally get it, it's real. It is. And I'm thankful now for the fact that I'm put in situations where I have to live that out every single day. And one of these days when uh God does take my wife home to be with him, or uh he provides me with a full-time job again, I'm gonna have to figure out other ways to continue to demonstrate my dependency upon him. And um because this is this has really become my way of life, and um I I can't really envision doing it any other way now.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, you took something that were very traumatic and you turned it into something positive. One your wife's still alive, which is amazing. It is always say God is good, yeah. You have to have hope, you have to pray, and yeah, Jesus Christ and God says that there's plenty of time still, because one uh without that adversity, with without uh the stage for breast cancer, you would have never written this book, The Weight of the Weight. No, that's true. That's true. Which is a tool. I I mean it a person doesn't you just said it perfectly, like right there. You you know, it's not about you know, yes, it could be stage four cancer, breast cancer, but yes, it it could be for those that have a mother or father with dementia. There there's just so much, and yes, there is a lot of weight on on on that weight. Everybody has a story that on something like that that that they're going through because I mean just what what drives a lot of people is that anxiety of not that that's what anxiety is, is you don't know the future, right? You you guys were just hoping for one last Easter to be with your children and your grandchildren, and but you had you guys had hope. You you you asked God, you asked Jesus Christ. It wasn't like you guys were like, oh, you you guys were both. I I do believe a lot of times what the people that accept the diagnosis but do not listen to the prognosis, and they stay upbeat and they stay positive and they laugh and they live their life, they go way beyond that. It it's the people that are up that that are all bent and twisted, all filled with anger, filled with rage, filled with sadness, and and playing victim. Why me? Why me? Like, like God's like, well, I need you to go now. No, it life, life isn't. Yeah, God, God is a loving God. He's not he's not out there with like a checklist saying, Well, it it says here we need I don't know how many people die every day. Okay, well, who who who's gonna it? It's it's not like that, and then also those people do if if the doctor says nine months, and you're not having hope, that person's gonna live exactly nine months.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I mean the the way that we view God and what we think about him, I you know it's it is it's not just about um the the positivity, and it's not just about hope in general, it's about what you place your hope in. And and what is the foundation of your of your hope. Because um if you're you know one of the things I I say when I'm when I'm introducing the whole concept of hope is that um hope has to be real, it has to be genuine, it has to work every time in every situation without fail. Because if it doesn't, it's it's false hope, and it it does string you along, and then at the end, we'll leave you wanting. So um, for uh, you know, I I too applaud people that are able to keep a positive attitude when they're encountering difficult situations, but if they're just basing that on their own ability to stay positive or in something else that isn't the God of the Bible, it's eventually going to break down. And it does break down. And when and when that hope crashes, it crashes hard. Um, and uh I've seen many people become very disillusioned, and it's one of the reasons why they they claim that uh God doesn't exist because they used to believe in him, they say, and then at a certain point he let them down. Well, I don't know the details of everybody's situation, but I I know one thing um God doesn't lie and he doesn't change and he's always good. So if something let you down, um my bet is that it wasn't him, and that you were actually you know building that hope on something else that wasn't able to stand uh the the test of whatever adversity you were going through. So, you know, positive thinking and and positivity is great, but if it's still grounded and based upon ourselves and our ability to conjure up that those feelings, or on anything else that isn't God, then eventually it's gonna it's gonna break down.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's like what I told you before we started recording is to me, most atheists were believers that thought Jesus or thought God was Santa Claus, and that you just manifest because you you you put something up on a poster board or you you had a big Christmas list list like his Santa and you want this to happen and you want it so badly, and it doesn't come whether it's the a relationship, yeah. Sometimes sometimes relationships don't work because God has bigger plans for you. There's someone better, someone that serves you, someone that will help you grow. But you know, when you have that knee-jerk reaction, oh well, you know, there's no god because you know we broke up, or because something I mean, I knew I well, a friend of mine has all this anger and resentment uh towards his family, his his brother, his parents, and to him because there was turbulence, there's bad times, then that must mean that that there's no god. Well, we we can pin there's so much, you know, that that's like saying, Well, today was a bad day at the stock market, and I really needed it to go up. That that there's proof. We you know, dude you we can pick and choose right anything bad and go, well, well, there's proof, but you just on the other way, just on the other aspect, to me, your your story, your family's story is just one of many stories to me that show that yes, I and I've watched every God God's not dead movie. I love all that one was filmed at LSU, the first one. So it's I I love those stories because to me it's just because we all have. I I have a story, everybody has a story, and if you look into it, you know, even to me, if if you're an atheist or you're you know you're a non-believer, if you're an agnostic, like you think maybe the Scientologists are right, or who knows who's right, but maybe that's that's what agnostic, maybe there's something, maybe there's not, you know, hedging everything, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:There God and Jesus Christ has always been been there with everybody through the good, the bad. You you just have to just have to let them in into your heart.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well said. And and you're gonna laugh. Now this is like proof. There there's been people that like their publicists. Well, my my client wanted to go on your podcast, but you're religious. And I'm like, no, I'm spiritual. Yes, I'm a Christian, but all I all I tell people is if you have a belief in something else, believe in that. But you know, that that's that's my story. I'm not here to tell, you know, we're not here saying we're we're trying to convert people, we're we're just discussing your story, which is an amazing story, which I mean, we haven't promoted it enough. The weight of the weight, yeah, it it's by Sam Wagner because there's two books. Make sure make sure you get Sam Wagner's book. It's available on Amazon, it's available on Kindle. Me, I I I bought one of those years ago. I'm I'm old-fashioned. I'd I'd have to get the paper back. Now I I I read the read it digitally through the publicist, but I I love that story so much. It's such an amazing story that and and and uh audible, it it's a great story to hear. At the gym or going to work or just taking a walk, just it and it's a six-hour story, but it breaks down and it goes easy. It before to me, it was increments. I was either for a walk or whatnot. And before I knew, it was like I was already 45, 50 minutes into the book.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know, I uh I'll tell you, um, when um when we were going through the the editing process with the publisher, you know, I had to get back multiple revisions and go back and check that the corrections or the changes that we made were in there and everything was right and so on and so forth. So you go through this process. I ended up after I wrote the book, I ended up reading it about a half dozen times um for as part of the publishing process. And inevitably, um something would be going on with my job search, or something would be going on in my life where I hit that one piece of it where I really needed to hear it myself, and I needed to be reminded of the truths that were there, and so I ended up telling people, I said, you know, I highly recommend this book. It sounds like the author really knows what he's talking about. I just wish I could be more like him.
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm I'm like that with my first book. I I remember uh I was I was going through a tough time, and a friend's like, Well, why don't you just reread your book? And I I after every chapter, I I have just things that just a little one or two minutes, three minutes, it's it's just like a workbook on things that you can do, and so yes, whenever I I'm feeling down, I I do read my book. Is that really you? Um I'm like, yeah, when when things are amazing, that's really me. But if I'm really feeling sorry for myself or if I'm angry, yes, I want to be just like that guy. I just want to be just like that writer, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I I uh um it was important to me, uh, particularly with the audio book, for me to uh narrate it myself and uh not use AI or not use another um it never resonates.
SPEAKER_00:I I that's the first thing I I had to see that if if it if it was someone else, I just don't like that. Especially like you it's someone influential, you want to hear that person, and it's not it's not their story, it's just an actor. This is your story, so it really is.
SPEAKER_03:You can feel it, it really is, and so from the beginning to the end. So, yeah, that was that was important to me as well. And so um, yeah, um the the audiobook is available on Audible, but also on a uh bunch of other uh platforms, Spotify, Apple, and Google Play, um, audiobooks.com, anywhere basically where you consume digital content. Um, I think you probably are gonna want to pick up a print copy too, because a lot of the stuff uh in there will make you think, and it it helps to scripture.
SPEAKER_00:It's there's scripture throughout the book to the physical copy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I had uh I had one lady whom I've never met. Um she wrote a review for me on Goodreads, and um, and uh then she dropped me a note that uh gave me a little bit more about her personal uh backstory. Uh, but uh she said that she took 40 pages of handwritten notes. I was like, I was blown away. I'm like, it's only a 200-page book.
SPEAKER_00:Well, there that's how much it resonated with you.
SPEAKER_03:It did, it did. And uh and that's really what's what makes it special. And I love to hear uh the stories of of um of what people are going through and and um if the book has has helped as well um to to hear what those things are about. So um on my website, samwagner.com, there's a contact form uh where you can um uh write me, send me a message. Uh tell me about your story, tell me uh about what it is that you're struggling through. Ask a question if you aren't sure if this is really gonna work for you. Tell me about that too. Uh I'd I'd be happy to interact with you that way because um this isn't as much about uh you know selling products as it is about uh getting a message across and and delivering something that's gonna transform people's lives. That's really what I'm about. And um so if there's some other way that I can can help you do that, uh I may not have the answer for you, but um I can certainly reach out to my network and and uh uh see if there's somebody who's close by who can step in and and and help you more directly if that's what's needed. But in any case, you know, uh love to hear from you. So please feel free to to take advantage of that. Samwegen.com.
SPEAKER_00:Samwegen.com. Amazon, audible, the weight of the weight, and more importantly, what I want people to do, Sam, uh, is I want people uh to pray for two things. Uh I want people to pray for your wife, to continue praying for her, so she may live another five, ten, fifteen, twenty years until it's her time to go be with Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. And two, I want people to pray for you. To pray for such like an amazing job. Whether it's an IT, you're you're out in woodlands. Maybe maybe uh Lee Strobel needs a needs a new IT guy or Joel Hosting. You know, somewhere in Houston. I don't know if it's the Astros, but that you get such an amazing job that will amplify your message, amplify your story.
SPEAKER_03:That's really the key part. Something that that um uh that's what I'm hoping for too. Something that allows me to continue to do things like this and continue to um to live and spread the message of hope. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00:No, thank you for your story. Thank you for being you. And not that you not that you need this, but you know it already. Jesus Christ loves you, Jesus Christ loves your family, and like what it we're both firm believers, John 3 16.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely.
unknown:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Alrighty, folks. Thank you. Thank you, Omar.
SPEAKER_01:What if it before it's no longer?