What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Built To Last: Shawn D. Nelson On LoveSac And Purpose
A giant beanbag stitched for a laugh turned into a public company with a purpose. Shawn D. Nelson, founder and CEO of LoveSac, joins us to unpack how “buy better, buy less” became the heartbeat of a billion-dollar disruptor, and why durability and modular design can beat disposable culture at its own game. From a borrowed ballet studio to a NASDAQ ticker, Shawn shares the scrappy choices, the near-misses, and the quiet convictions that shaped LoveSac’s trajectory.
We dig into the missionary experience in Taiwan that forged his discipline, fluency, and resilience—habits that map directly to entrepreneurship: start at zero every day, listen hard, and keep moving. Shawn explains how Sactionals were born from customer curiosity, then engineered into a patented system that grows, shrinks, and refreshes with new covers and components. He makes a bold case for sustainability that actually sustains: products designed to last decades and evolve with your life, not shiny upgrades that pressure you to rebuy. Along the way, we tackle the “comfort kills” trap, the premium on founder-led companies when paired with world-class operators, and the humility to hire smarter people and let them truly own outcomes.
If you’re stuck on the sidelines—mid-career, restless, unsure where to begin—Shawn offers a clear starting point: do something. Cut the first piece of fabric, test the idea, and let momentum teach you. We close with his long-term vision for LoveSac as a purveyor of the best stuff: modular, serviceable, future-ready products that earn trust and reduce waste. Ready to rethink growth, durability, and what a brand can stand for? Press play, then tell us the first small step you’ll take today. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs the push, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.
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Alright, everybody, another day, another dollar, another one of my favorite episodes of my favorite podcast. It's my own. What if it did work? Got with me. I have to say, man, he's a man, the myth, the legend. He's a CEO, he's a founder, has a podcast, has a book. I mean, man, you're a master of everything. Charlie Nelson, he's best known as the innovative founder behind Love Sack, the billion-dollar furniture disruptor, redefining sustainability and design. But behind the scenes, he's just the regular guy who took a joke-sized beanbag from his parents' basement, turned it into a category-creating publicly public company. It's on the NASDAQ, proving that ideas and grounded values aren't mutually exclusive. He's a product inventor, CEO, and host of the Let Me Save You 25 Years podcast. Man, I was an entrepreneur for about 20-something years. If if you would have been around, man, I'd so definitely he shares his unfiltered stories of grit, failure, and building with purpose, a devout man of faith. He leads with values, not ego, and believes the true job of a founder is to be shaped by the business, not just to build one. Man, I I gotta say, just reading all that, that the one thing, dude, most founders, most CEOs, I mean you're in complete service, just 25. Let me save you time. You you know what I mean? You're definitely an outlier, man. Yeah, every aspect.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm a product of a of a weird story, which is why I had to put it in a book. But um, you know, look, I made a big beanbag, people liked it, became my side hustle in college, started making more fast forward to today. You know, we we get to have 2,000 employees, 300 stores, we're we're still growing fast. And um, but it's with every kind of failure and like screw up in between that that got us here, and we just kind of toughed it out. But uh, you are right. It's as I I like to say to my friends, like, I'm I'm as embarrassed as I am proud uh to be now actually 20, 20 going on 27 years in business, um, in the sense that it took me way too long to figure a bunch of things out, but we now have a shot at really I think LoveSat can become a Nike, can become an Apple, can become a very big company that really changed the changes the landscape that we operate in.
SPEAKER_02:Well, just being a founder and a creator, not only is it your baby, but just who you are. Because I mean, I my my second book was on how not to how to run a company or how not to, because a lot of times, you know, you you you hear these stories and you're like, oh yeah, uh on the surface it looks amazing. And the owner, the founder has his like all the posters up, like on teamwork and service and whatnot. And then you're like, oh man, this company le it's it's it's all about leading and not following, but then you it you know it's like a revolving door, people lead the company left and right, toxicity. There, there's a book that HR gives you that that's like uh 500 pages on things that you cannot do, totally. So yeah, and bring us back though, man, because just the name Love Sack Bean Bag. Now, where did you go to college, dude? That that you were selling me like like hotcakes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, look, Love Sack was born on the on the lawn at the University of Utah in the sense that uh so uh first of all, 1995, I made the first sack to be funny, it was right out of high school. I just thought it'd be cool to make a bean bag like this big, like me to the TV, the whole floor. Got off the couch, drove down to Joanne's fabrics, bought some fabric, brought it home, sewed it up, broke my mom's sewing machine. My neighbor finished sewing it, took three weeks to put stuff in it. But everywhere I take it, everybody wants one because it's not even a bean bag, it's filled with mostly chopped up foam. Like I found my parents' camping mattresses in the basement, you know, rolled up a piece of foam with a bungee cord around them, cut those up into strips, into squares on a paper cutter by hand. And um, anyway, the resultant giant beanbag would fill the bed of like a truck. It was that big. And so we'd take it camping or take it to drive in movies, everyone wants one. And then it would be three years later, I was in college, and my neighbors finally convinced me to make them one because they saw it driving up and down the street so many times. And uh of course, I needed a I was gonna sell it to them. So I need a business, I need a name, and it was hippie beanbag, love peace, hate war bag, love bag, love sack. That's cool. Paid 25 bucks to register the business in the state of Utah. And I had this little side hustle making giant knot beanbags in college and was selling them, you know, at different events at the university on the lawn, play some Bob Marley, put out some sacks, people place orders, spend the next week or two or three making them and delivering them in our old van. And it was that way for three years. And then at the end of it, tried to quit the company. But people were like, No, I love my love sacks. So we gave it a shot at a trade show, got discovered, took a big order, built a factory on credit cards, completed the order, broke even, wanted to keep going. So we opened all the stores rejected us actually. The furniture stores weren't having it. They thought our name was stupid, they thought the whole thing was stupid. So we opened our own store in 2001, and it and it was on track to do a million bucks in its first year after like four or five weeks. We could see this, and we couldn't believe it because we didn't even know if people would come in, but it worked.
SPEAKER_02:The University of Utah, the Utes. I would never picture hippies, Bob Marley, anything like that.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I alter ego, man. You know, it was like uh Love Sack was like the laid-back, easygoing guy that I never was because I was like a hard-driving, you know, ambition-driven business.
SPEAKER_02:Now, did dude, did you ever see did you always see yourself as an entrepreneur? Like as a founder, as a creator, were were you the kid that was like selling lollipops and blow pops and whatnot? Nothing like that.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, a little bit, you know, I I definitely from a young age uh hustled a little bit. I I did, you know, pick my all my neighbors' cherry trees and sell them on the corner, that sort of thing. But I don't know. I don't I didn't have any clear plan in college. I uh had some job offers trying to get me to go take a real job because Love Sack had never made me any money as a side hustle. It actually I waited tables all the way through college to pay my way through school. So it was more like a took my money, you know, had to fix the van, buy more fabric, any start like any startup. And so I kept trying to leave it, but people really liked it. So I kind of kept going and and the story unfolded the way it unfolded. But at the same time, um people always loved the name. And that's and so you fast forward all the way to today. You know, we our ticker on Wall Street is L-O-V-E Love, which we're I'm really proud of. We have a really cool corporate culture that generates a lot of great innovation. We're doing some really cool innovative things. Sectionals, you know, these couches. Now we sell mostly couches. We made these really cool couches you could have the rest of your life. You can grow them, change them, rearrange them. People have probably seen them on TV, that sort of thing on the internet. And that's growing. We've sold billions in those. And in fact, it's the best-selling sectional in the US. And now we have many other ideas that that has spawned. And so ultimately, what we're trying to do is build a brand, build, build a brand that's trusted, build a brand that people can believe in, build a brand that makes sustainable stuff. Because like some of the sectionals in my life are 18 years old. They're older than all my children. I got four kids. They've grown up on these couches, and they and they're and these couches, these some of these pieces are mated with brand new ones. They're wearing their tenth set of covers. It's truly sustainable product because we make really good stuff. And so it's been a crazy long arc. And uh, but the weird thing is, I feel like I'm barely halfway there. You know, I'm I'm I'm I I got another 25 years if if I have to.
SPEAKER_02:Was there any blowback? Did they get like bent and twisted when you know we sent Sean to college to the University of Utah, and now he wants to be an entrepreneur, make bean bags? I'm sure they're like, Sean, you didn't even have to go to college if you're gonna do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I remember my uh one time in those early days, I was sitting on the floor. So I my mom taught ballet and retired. So I got to live in this empty ballet studio while I went to school. And it was great because I could roll fabric out, cut it out on my hands and knees. And I'm down there cutting out fabric one day. And she knows, like, actually, I'm not a dropout, I'm an honor student. I speak Mandarin Chinese. That's a whole other story. Um, I learned it on a mission for my church. So I speak Mandarin Chinese, I'm I'm I'm studying business, I have full ride scholarship, and she's looking at me, cutting out fabric on, you know, in on the floor, getting ready to go to my night shift waiting tables. And she's like, is this what you really want to do? Because she knew I could like graduate, go get like big jobs or this or that. And I remember thinking, I really thought about it, you know, and I just said, I don't know. I said, I just feel like I should keep going. And I think that that general attitude has been my attitude for more than 25 years now.
SPEAKER_02:So, Sean, I have to ask you this. You just said that, and and I'm I'm always fascinated. So, what you're telling me is you went somewhere in China for your two-year mission.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I went to Taiwan. I went to Taiwan, dude. That's still that's still yeah, I got to uh learn Mandarin Chinese. Yeah, no, it was amazing. I was I was 19 years old, so it's after I made the first sack, I actually put it away in the garage, uh kind of forgot about it, took off to Taiwan to be a missionary for my church, spent every day and night out on the streets talking to people in Mandarin. We become very fluent in the language, we do a lot of service. Uh, it's it's an awesome opportunity. And after two years of of that, came back home and and my friends were actually, I started college again. My friends were going to drive a movie. I said, Oh, yeah, I've got this thing. I'd forgotten about it. I pulled it out of the garage, started using it again. That was that was the beginning that led me to making more of them uh on campus.
SPEAKER_02:Well, also that two-year mission, talk about discipline, talk about just being all in, man. If that didn't teach you just to do things on a consistent basis when you morning, night, you wake up, just it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Like we so I I've obviously raised my kids in our faith, and my wife and I talk about it sometimes because all of our kids are in the middle of it right now, 17, 15, 13, 11. And as my oldest daughter gets ready to go to college, if push came to shove and I had to choose for my kids, you know, go to college or serve a mission, I would probably tell them to go serve a mission because especially today, the way college has gone. But that aside, it's just commitment, man.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah, you learn more out of two years of doing that, and and especially going to Taiwan, they're way more rejection than like if they sent you uh what my first manager got sent to Las Vegas, which is oh really in the grand scheme of things, it's it's way easier because the the city's founded by the church. So, you know, you you have a lot of people that that you know when when you're knocking and when you're predicating and when when you're you're talking about it compared to going to not only a foreign country, but a country that you know Christianity is not, you know, it's it's like it way foreign. So I mean, it's a it it's very hard to on something like that, and just that hustle, and and it's the ultimate sales program. I mean, because you you wake up and you have to be back at zero, you can't be like, Oh, yeah, I had a bad day. Uh nope, nobody wanted to talk to me. Well, you you've got like you know, 23 more months of this. You better you you better suck it up and you better go.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think people realize what a commitment. I mean, in fact, you know, a lot of people don't realize it's volunteer. I actually sold my car to pay for and you have to pay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I all uh I had four managers, yeah. So I I I know the process, well, and yeah, no, and I always thought, man, talk about discipline. Yeah, it's not like you can choose, and then you know, and then the immersion of learning a language, because I mean you're immersed in that. Everybody thinks, and and this is for business or anything, you can't dip your toes. The reason why all those programs, oh, learn Spanish, S O C S, and all that crap is because you're dabbling in it, man. Yeah, if if if your church was like, okay, Sean, we're gonna send you to Taiwan, here. We we just want you to baby steps, and that's why you know I I took the easy way out in college. I had I'm an arts and science guy, so four years of a language and was Spanish. I'm I'm Spanish, but thank goodness, because that last class was like I I couldn't do it, but but yet, you know, all these people in college have to do a foreign language, language, and whatnot. You would think, you know, with how highly educated we are as a country, we'd everybody'd know two, three languages, and no, man, because it's you have it's it's like the person that says they want to be in business. The reason why LoveSack is what it is, is because you went all in. A lot of people think business or their side hustle. What's crazy is when people take a business loan and they're not all in, you know, or you know, they have a plan B, a plan C, a plan D.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, I agree. Ditch the safety net. I you know, to this day, I still haven't even cashed out my LoveSock stock. I'm all in because I mean I expect my employees to be.
SPEAKER_02:I expect if you sold everything, but you're telling people to go all in, I mean, there's there's major disconnect there, and and a lot of times uh you companies do that, and companies that were on the way out, like Enron, those guys dumped all their stuff, and they're telling everybody, you know, the company, and and and Wall Street, the big guys knew that what was going on, but they're getting a mom and oh, you gotta buy it, man. You got it, it's real cheap now. It was uh it was eighty dollars, but now it's four dollars, man. It's four dollars. So I I love that story, man. That that that right there tells me a lot. This discipline. This this is one thing that'll save people years, man. Discipline, hustle, drive, everything that well, you you were taught this too, man, because uh I quite frankly, I've never when it comes to your church, uh people love to, you know, they watch a Netflix special on, you know, all these you're gonna you you just laugh because right, you you see all these wahoos create creating a cult watered down or whatever, and and then you know, Netflix makes it look like it it's the church. So I I mean being Roman Catholic, trust me, I get it, man. So the new Netflix special from Idaho. Yeah, that woman, that woman and that the the last one, and it's like, no, that's not the church, man. It it's just like you know, the media or whatever. But you you have to have a foundation, and that that's what that I know LoveSack. If I spoke to all your employees, they would say there's a foundation there, man. And that's that's that's in every great company, you know. People love reading the you know, the Tony Shea, the the Zappos. It all starts with the foundation, and it all starts from the founder. If if the founder's not there or you know, he's looking to exit, you you said it right best there, man. Well you you want to see this thing become the next, and the reason why it became the next Apple became Apple or Nike. I mean, Phil Knight's like 140. He he's he's still he's still around. I know he's not. No, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:In fact, it's it's funny because I think that as a public company, the typical story, right, is that a founder is really cute and gets us to here, and then you got to hire a professional CEO to get you to there, especially in the public markets. But I think even just in the last decade, that's really shifted. And I think as we've seen, obviously, megaliths like Tesla, like Facebook, um, like all these big tech companies, where they're founder-led and in fact driving the biggest results that have ever been seen. And of course, they're surrounded by professionals and great people as I am. I I mean, everyone who works for me is smarter than I am. And I don't even mean that trying to be humble. I mean that as a matter of fact. But um, I've come to learn and observe that there is something really magical about someone who founded something. And and I thought that would go away. I just thought in this day of like technology and professionalism and management, that was kind of, you know, thanks for what you've done, we'll take it from here. But I actually think even in the public markets, that's come full circle, and there's a premium now, as long as the founder isn't totally insane, which also happened.
SPEAKER_02:Well, no, well, there's that, but here I'll I'll give you a perfect example. He he's come back three times. Howard Schultz. Yeah, retires he's retired multiple times, retired again. We'll we'll see. He's probably like share. He'll he'll whenever that stock goes down and it's in the toilet and things look bleak and they're closing stores, lo and behold, the founder comes back. And that that's that's the magic. Uh, I mean, look at Apple. You want to be like Apple. We when when was the last thing that Apple created that wasn't from its founder?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, trust me, I I'm very critical of Apple. I uh I think they should have cured cancer already, or I think they should have solved traffic or something. No innovation.
SPEAKER_02:They they they it died when Steve Jobs died. Yeah, yeah, it's it's the everything the the phone was under him, the iPad. There, there's nothing new.
SPEAKER_00:There's nothing but and there's hundreds of billions in cash available to them. And what do we get? Better memojis.
SPEAKER_02:Um, pregnant men memojis. That that they don't even get that they they sit on their cash, you're gonna laugh. Like screw. I I picture them to be like Scrooge McDuck. You remember like they they'd always have that like that comp the the cartoon and he was just there like counting money. It's not like they they give it out as a dividend because it's it's not even a dividend pain stuff. I mean it's it's a small dividend. It's and it's not like they're they're they're spending it like hand over fist over innovation tech R D. I I mean you you keep on seeing yourself grow because this is your baby, man. That you you don't you you haven't said hey I'm the founder, let I can only take it A B C D. Man, you you want to be because you have that passion. You who you outsource your weaknesses. That's business 101. I mean, I mean you said it best, hey, there's people smarter than me, so I let them do the job. Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00:But it took me it took me a long time. When I was when I was younger, I was hiring people that were older than me and smarter than me, even in in you know, fairly early days when we had stores and whatnot, we were growing fast. But um, if I'm being honest, I didn't really let them own own it. You know, I had to sort of like be the man, put my stamp on everything, approve everything, have every idea, be in every room. And you know, I learned the hard way. I mean, LoveSack's been through every kind of down and up. You know, we had to start over again after raising money because we, you know, opened too many stores too fast, all those classic mistakes, all these things. But after, you know, getting beat down a few times and weathering through some really rough times, you start to learn. And and that's the spirit of the book I wrote, right? Let me save you 25 years was written. It's like the book that I wish it existed when I got started. Um, and I try to be really let's just like open about my in fact, the subtitle of the book is Mistakes, Miracles, and Lessons from the Love Sack Story, hoping that people could maybe learn a little bit from my mistakes instead of making them all themselves. And um, and that's one of them. You know, I had to really learn to hire these great people and then and then really let them own it. And if they can't own it or if they're, you know, can't generate the results, they're they're the wrong people. But what I need to do is really trust them. And it's not to say that I'm not involved, but I have certain skills and abilities as well. And it's like I will stick my fingers in stuff where I'm really good and pretty much stay out of everything else if I can. And um, of course, if you let yourself do that, you can also live a little bit of life in there too. And and and and so I'm really grateful to have learned these lessons. I wish I'd learned them sooner.
SPEAKER_02:Well, not only that, but I love the simple fact that you're so like it even says it in the notes that your publicist sent. Anti-consumerism. Yeah, even though you have a consumer brand, I love it. It exists your brand, LoveSack, exists to challenge waste and disposability by designing things that are meant to last. That's right.
SPEAKER_00:Your competitors well, it's funny you brought up it's funny you brought up Apple because you and I both know that they keep conning us all into buying the same thing from them. Upgrade the what the and the thing is, they don't even hide it now, like they they legitimately try to kill your battery with every upgrade. They told that to Congress. We know this is true, and we still do it, and it's gross. And by the way, most of the stuff, you know, the the jeans you're wearing are baggy or tight because they tried to convince you that they're too baggy or too tight at some point. And if by the way, if you won't succumb to these trends, they will unleash your children against you to convince you that you're old and stupid and out of date, like little communists. And so, like, it's really wild the way the system that we just accept. And and so our purpose, at least once we realized that holy cow, when we invented sactional, look in in the first love sack store, there was a couch in the corner and it was just there to look pretty. And people would hopefully come in and flop down on one of our bean not bean bags and and buy it. But they'd ask about the couch. Oh, how much is that couch? I don't know, couch is not for sale, but every day this happened. And so eventually it's like, okay, let's figure out a way to sell couches. But it wouldn't it be cool if we could shrink them down the way we shrink down our eight-foot bean bags. So we began taking couches apart and re-mixing them, and we invented this thing called sectionals. We patented it in all these different ways, and it's become the best-selling sectional in the United States of America today. Now, along the way, we stayed true to what we kind of just believed in and we made them really, really well. And like I said, I have sectionals piece in my life that are 18 years old. They're made with brand new ones, they're wearing their tenth set of covers, you know, and we keep making new products that can kind of bolt on call it. That's true sustainability. And nobody talks about, you know, yes, we recycle plastic bottles into fabric after Amazon and Walmart. We're the we're the most prolific, believe it or not. But that's not the sustainability I'm talking about. I'm talking about stuff that actually sustains and was designed not only to be built well, but designed to evolve so that it can sustain, so that it can move with you, grow with you, change with you, relocate with you. And that's giving us a whole ethos that will hatch other new products and ideas and take LoveSack to that hopefully legendary brand status. Because at the end of the day, Apple's the biggest brand in the world, probably. But do people love it? Obviously, many people love Apple, but they're also kind of like evil. We drink the Kool-Aid, you know, they're kind of evil. And so I do think we have a path to building a great brand, a beautiful brand, one that I'm really proud of. And even though we're a tiny little furniture company, not yet to a billion, I think we I think given enough time and energy and focus and talent, we're gonna do exactly that. And and to me, the money aside, I find that very interesting. I think it's a cool way to spend my life, and it and it rolls up to our stated purpose at LoveSack, which is to inspire humankind to buy better stuff, so they can buy less stuff, which is a weird thing for a company that makes stuff to say, but uh you know your competitors are all laughing. By the way, I I I explain this to investors, and uh were they like Sean? Lower your role, brother. No, because here's the thing. Here's the thing, it's actually not that controversial in the end. Let's pretend that I'm wildly successful in couch land, and so many people have my couches that like we start selling fewer couches because everyone's got them and they last forever. Well, what's the obvious outcome? What do I need to do as a business person? You need to pivot and create something new, and that's why Apple sucks because we never made them do that.
SPEAKER_02:We like like she we we all you and I well dude, uh um my my ex-wife somewhere, if she ever listens to this, I I was that idiot, it wasn't until very recent. I had to own every and it was like, oh my gosh, this new one, it looks just like last year's, but it it it if the picture quality is better, so that's why I I laugh because you just but but why are are we raving fans or just raving idiots?
SPEAKER_00:Because in fairness, well, I wish there would be one, and but this is the problem your company gets that big, they can crush them all, they can buy them all, they can eat them all, they can buy it, you know, and so this is the problem with the state of the world. But look, thankfully, I'm not in the phone business, but I think there's plenty of room in my business to uh dominate these categories, make them better, take a big piece of them, and ultimately there will be fewer couches sold because I made couches and hopefully the next thing. And that's the thing that Apple never had to do was do the next thing because we'll just keep buying this thing. So, look, I'm proud of what we're doing. I think it's unique, I think we have a shot at it, and I didn't mean for that to happen. I fully expected to sell love sacks somewhere along the way, make some money, be done, whatever. But this is the way my life's unfolded. I'm really grateful for it because it's kind of like at this point, I wake up 25 years in, it's like, oh man, that was painful. But at the same time, it didn't hurt that bad. If I had to do it again, I think I could. And once you make the decision to your point to just go all, okay, I'll go another 25. Then guess what? A bad year, a down year, four bad years since COVID. It's been a really hard time for the home category. We're still E can out growth, but it's it's really bad. The interest rates, no home sales, all this stuff. Who cares, man? It's a blip when that's your attitude. And I'm really grateful for that point of view that can only come with time, I'm afraid.
SPEAKER_02:We're about similar age, dude. 25 years ago, if somebody would tell you 25 years, you'd be like, hold on, hold on. Yeah, you'd be like, Whoa, is that like 200 years? No way. Now, if I tell you five years, you're like, well, that's not that far out. I I can easily do it. It it's just relative, but but also you love what you're doing. Maybe 20 years ago, you're like, man, I can't wait to the day I saw this baby. We moved to Hawaii and just relax. The family and we just enjoy the day. I don't I don't know what people do in Hawaii. Yes, it's beautiful, but there's just so much beauty and relaxing.
SPEAKER_00:Uh look, people were meant to work, and I think so. You get to work a little less if if you have a great team around you or in different ways, and I think that's a good thing. And it comes and goes, by the way, depending on the seasons and the years and the cycles. But I actually have changed my point of view. I hope I work till I'm can't walk anymore. You know, I hope I and I hope I can keep building and creating and uh you know to enjoying the satisfaction that comes from making things.
SPEAKER_02:But also, Sean, don't you think it's because your soul is saying you're doing what you were meant to be doing? So you're not like that that person that's at the cubicle that has like a calendar that has like he I'm gonna retire 16 years, four months, six days, and who knows how many hours. Because there's a lot of people operate like that, yeah, and they're miserable because life didn't tell them what they what to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they just fair. And by the way, I don't know, I think those people should find their way to a place like LoveTalk, that where I want to believe that even you know, the people on our front lines or people that are not, you know, managing people or whatever, um, we still provide an awesome culture and a great job and and a and a point of view that they can align to. You know, if you don't have your own purpose, find a place that has like I think there's a lot of people that are here trying to help us build this thing that can inspire people to buy better stuff, to buy less stuff. And and and so that's can be motivating. It doesn't have to be. I'm grateful for people who want to be part of something because if I didn't have those, I I couldn't exist either. You know, this thing couldn't exist.
SPEAKER_02:So then you're you you're sort of like it. I I mentioned it like Zappos before they sold to Amazon. You want pe you can't your pe people that thrive and work for you are people that don't color inside the lines, people that think outside the box, people that don't want a job, they want to be something that's big, they want to be part of a movement. Uh, I I mean everything that your company stands for I think outside of that, man. I mean, I mean, think about that. What one day you're selling friggin' a 20-foot beanbag. Like, I know I'm I'm being dramatic, I like that, into this. And like what you said, the goal is to be so successful that you're like, okay, we have a hundred percent penetration, we have to do something else now. The you know, everybody's got sectionals, uh everybody's got the patterns, uh pretty soon you'll, you know, whatever college you want, you you for your man cave, you know the sky's the limit. And and I I love that because usually when people people once they get to a certain level, it's called comfort. Yeah, and and that's what kills what what kills Apple is comfort. Clearly, it's not like you know, when the the stories that you hear that Steve Jobs the company was hungry, it was drowning, it needed success, like it needed a fresh breath of air because I mean they only had capital for like three months, I think was when he he came back to the company like that. Clearly, that that's that's when you're innovated. That that's like you know, when you hear people, well, rock bottom was such a yeah, because you know, you you didn't want to be on snap, you didn't want to be a bum, you you know, you you found a way out, so clearly, you know, that's why comfort is comfort kills to me. Comfort kills more than corona or whatever virus or whatever plague that's uh that's out there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think I think that's why it's a you know, I I don't I don't have a specific plan yet for how I'll handle my children, but I didn't want them growing up in Hawaii. I mean and I mean that metaphorically. I didn't, you know, they like you don't want them to be like, oh, we're so oh my like well, I could I I believe that the journey that I explained made me as resilient and capable as I am. Why would I want to rob my kids of that opportunity? Why would I ever try to F up their lives by giving them piles of money? It makes like no sense to me why people do that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, a history book says that's the worst thing to do because I mean you hear all these uh the van the Vanderbilt family, it didn't last long, yeah. It it went after generation after generation. If you just oh, here's a billion dollars. You didn't, you know, you didn't teach the person how to fish, you didn't teach the person how to hunt ever in your life. It it's it's the worst thing for you. It it's like shortcuts. That's why when you hear, oh my gosh, that guy won 50 million. Well, why is he going back to work five years later? Because he didn't have he didn't know how to make the money. It's the same thing, like if you know, I I I went to uh some plastic surgeon and said I I wanted to look like Mr. Olympia, give me the six packs, the whole nine yards. Well, okay, I didn't do the work, and when you do that, you you said it best because that's the one thing, like my ex-wife and I, we were always like, you know, the biggest disservice you can ever give to your kids is to oh well, I I want them to have everything in life. Well, that's I I'm sure you've heard that, right? Oh, don't you want don't you want them to make sure that they're just like the Hiltons and all these other families that you're like, oh my gosh, it in the grand scheme of things, you're like, oh all these people, the JP Morgan's, they they must have like their fifth, sixth, seventh generation on the board and running the company. No, totally, it and it it's because man, comfort kills. I mean, uh, Conrad Hilton uh tried to give all his his savings to the church, and his family uh you know contested it, they got a great lawyer, got and then they blew the money. There's no the Hilton aren't running that now. Now, if they went to your church, the Marriott family is still running, it's still a big part of Marriott. Yeah, because you have to. I mean, I I love that that you said that you you don't want to metaphorically have your children in Hawaii, yeah. Because it I'm sure you've heard this when Shaquille O'Neal tells his his children you're not rich. I am.
SPEAKER_00:That's rich, yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_02:But that it's to me, there's no greater gift. I mean, because I it's like those stories that you know when you compare like a lion, the lion that goes out and hunting compared to the one that's in the in the zoo or uh at the circus, and it's like you know, they get fed. That's it. Just they you can't you can't release them out to the wild because they can't they're not self-sustainable. And and that's that's that's the one thing that you know I love to hear that, you know. You want your children to be successful, whatever and whatever feeds their soul, whether it's with you in Love Sack, or there's a million, you know, there the sky's the limit. Our our imagination, if you can imagine it, you can build it, you can become whatever it is. Absolutely, and yeah, dude, for for you to write a book on saving people, because yes, it it's being an entrepreneur. I learned more out of those lessons because it costs money, man, and time when you F things up, yeah, and it's like oh that compared to college and learning from a professor that spent his whole life, he's got tenure, but he's telling you how to how to make it in the real world. Yeah, it's wild. No better teacher, no better teacher, man. And and you're you're like it, you you can think of yourself as like, well, you look more like Marty McFly. I was gonna say like Doc Brown, but then I'd be saying you're like way old, but think about it, man. You're you're you're condensing time. That's that's the most valuable resource, money. Man, there's an ebb and flow. You know, you have it, you you lose some, you make more. It's like it's like the tide comes and goes, man. But time with doing that as a podcast, man, and a book. Like I said, it I was a horrible entrepreneur for at least a good five, six, seven years. That you know, well, we're making money. How much? Oh, I don't know. I uh I look in the account and there's money, so I I know that and that's how I ran business. Or oh well, you know, yes, I lost all this money, but hey, guess what? You know what? How it was a life lesson. Well, yeah, the money just just imagine, Sean, all the life lessons, all the opportunities that you lost, or whatnot. If you had a redo and a re like, how much further ahead you, your company, would be.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's why I wrote the book, that's why I do the podcast. Let me save you 25 years. I talk to also very successful people and just try to answer some of these questions uh in the spirit of trying to be useful.
SPEAKER_02:Then you're grounded, man. You're you're grounded. That that's that's the one thing that I mean publicly traded corporations. So what what we want you everybody to do is buy it, it's a long-term hold, man. That's right. Sean Sean's not going anywhere, he's the founder. There you go. And and you know what? I would rather invest in the L-O-V-E than the other love. Everybody knows that that stock, and you know, uh for I'm sure everybody knows L L U V is is Southwest, and and they're so edgy and that now they're just like another airline, man.
SPEAKER_00:I know they've lost their moja, dude.
SPEAKER_02:Not only did they lose their mouth, they're like, Oh, we're edgy. We don't we don't charge for bags, we don't do this, we don't do that, and now it's like the only thing that's separate. Oh, and we're a discount, which man, they're to fly them, it's the same thing as flying American or Delta. Totally. My minus, oh, I'm sorry, they they they give the witty jokes, and and and their flight attendants wear shorts. That's that's what separates them now. Totally. So so then you ultimately you see love sack being like uh like when people think of furniture, they just think of you guys screw everything.
SPEAKER_00:I I think I think it's I don't really think of LoveSack as a furniture company. I mean, we obviously make furniture, I think that's a little bit like saying Nike is a shoe company, you know. For a lot of years they were and they still are, but Nike is big. Nike's now I you know, I caught them that Nike skateboarding, Nike golf, you know, snowboarding, yeah. So I think that what Love Stack will be someday is the purveyor of the best stuff, and it won't be all the stuff, like I doubt we'll get to making mobile phones, but but but you know, our design ethos, we call it the four you never know though, brother. That's right, the forever philosophy. Things that are built to last a lifetime, but could evolve as life changes. You and I can both imagine what a what a forever phone could kind of look like. You know, it could possibly have a camera that could be modular and as as technology upgraded, maybe you're able to pop a new one in or something, you know, at least the battery that you know, there's a reason they seal that in there so you can't change, you know. Of course, and so that's the kind of company we'll be is a company that makes that kind of stuff, and it may not always be in furniture only, but a lot of furniture for a long time for sure, and um that's that's the goal of the brand.
SPEAKER_02:Just think about the carbon footprint, too. You know how people talk about lack lack of waste, man.
SPEAKER_01:Totally.
SPEAKER_02:Your your product can go from the single dude, the guy that's dating, he's got the fiance. Finally, they get married, have kids. You got it, and you know what? Kids throw stuff around, so there's plenty of fabric, just switch it out. Uh, you know, you have mom and dad always visiting, so yeah, it expands. That that that's what I love about it, and you know what? You you keep it. Hey, kids are gone, empty nester. I'm I'm almost there. My my last one is a senior in college or senior in high school. Here, take this to the fraternity house, do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_00:Totally.
SPEAKER_02:It it it you know it expands and it contracts, yeah. And you know, it's like it's like life, man. Everybody goes through seasons, every everybody goes through these different, you know, different stages of of their life. And it's like life, man. That's what that's what I love about Love Sack. And I gotta tell you, the the commercials be they're different because you know, I'm I'm used to watching your competitor, it puts you to sleep. You're like, oh shit. It's the only commercials. I'm like, oh my gosh, because you know, you you you you see kids bouncing on stuff and people throwing stuff, and oh yeah, just change it, or just to move it around, and especially the way like a a lot of man, not that I'm general with stereotyping, but women want change your your product, just move it here, there, change the fabric pattern. Voila, you you you've got something new. You painted you painted the house different, the interior. Well, you know, we can we can switch that out. That's love suck. Thank you. So, and we we found out what you want to do with the company. You you want you want it to be up there. We're gonna watch a movie. It's gonna be like instead of the I know the the name's taken, the founder. We're Ray Croc, we're gonna have to come up with something like something something similar so we we can hear, we can watch your life unfold, man.
SPEAKER_00:I hope so. In the meantime, get the book, listen to the podcast. Where do we get the book? Amazon easy to find on social media.
SPEAKER_02:I I know we get it at Amazon. Where where else? Can we get it at Barnes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Amazon, of course, lovesack.com. Uh I'm I love uh connecting with people on Instagram. Um Sean of LoveSack. So connect, check out uh the book, check out the pod, and stay in touch.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Sean, you forgot to tell them though. He gives he's dude on Instagram. I love the reels.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_02:I I left I love the reels. Watch them, follow them. Can can they DM you? Can they ask you?
SPEAKER_00:Ask away a few thumbs. I I DM with customers and and friends and employees all day long. Happy to happy to connect.
SPEAKER_02:All right, Sean. I got one last question for you, brother. This is this is this is from the I always ask the one question. This is from an autrepreneur or someone that's in that cubicle, someone that's just not living their life, not not living what God created them to do. To you know, if we're created in his image, it's not for the crumbs of love, the crumbs of success. It's to be a king and to be the center of the universe of your own universe. But this person lost that. I don't know what Sean, it's it just you know, went life just went through, man. I you know, I'm like 35, 38 now. You know, I had so many dreams and so much hope. For you know, as I was in college, I I expected to be a an entrepreneur, but just here I'm I'm working for someone. Maybe in two years I'll get another day off. I get my four percent raise, and that's it, man. I just feel like I don't exist.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. What do I have to say to that? Yeah, look, you called it Ray Kroc, uh Vera Wang, Colonel Sanders, uh founder of Home Depot. Uh these they all started in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. And uh, you know, here I am uh 25, 27 years into my career, still making giant beanbags, but doing a lot more finally. Um I'll just pull it back to the first shawnism in the book. The book consists of 25 little lessons, 25 little shaunisms. Just do something. You know, you have an idea, you're a child of God, makes you a creator by birthright. You need to get off the couch like I did, go buy some fabric, cut out the big bean bag, and see if people like it. And uh, it's amazing. Do do something, do the next thing, and before you know it, you might just uh get somewhere.
SPEAKER_02:Sean D. Nelson, a man of faith, a man of principle, a founder, a man that wrote let me save you 25 years, love sack, not to be confused with the love shack. You can you can listen to you can you can listen to the love shack by the B52s while you're buying the love sack, invest in yourself, invest in the company, invest in your dreams, brother. Thank you for everything. Thank you for the opportunity. You are a rock star, man, and a man of faith. You probably didn't think I was gonna throw some some fishy stuff in there.
SPEAKER_00:I like that. Thanks for having me. It's been great. Alrighty, brother. Love you.
SPEAKER_02:Have an amazing night with your family. Thank you, you too.