What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Pragmatism For Real Life Decisions Under Pressure
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Most people say they want clarity, but they keep feeding the chaos. We sit down with Mark Coleman, author of “Planet Pragmatism: The New Path to Prosperity,” to talk about what it actually looks like to think and lead in a world of broken plans, loud opinions, and nonstop input.
We get into pragmatism as a real-life operating system: how to stop overthinking, make cleaner decisions faster, and stay flexible when the day punches back. Mark connects anxiety and stress to the patterns we repeat, then shows how awareness and humility help you pivot without losing who you are. We also talk about why plain language matters, and why dignity and respect are the foundation for better leadership and stronger relationships.
Then we go straight at the modern fog: doomscrolling, desensitization, algorithms that distort reality, and the uneasy line between helpful technology and moral drift. From there, we redefine prosperity as quality of life, purpose, trust, and community, not just money or status. The most practical takeaway is also the simplest: build stillness into your life, take a digital hibernation when you need it, and listen to your own energy before you try to fix the whole world.
If this conversation hits home, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s stuck, and leave a review so more people can find it. What does prosperity mean to you right now?
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Cold Open And The Inner Voice
SPEAKER_03I never told no one that my whole life I've been holding back. Every time I load my gun up, so I can shoot for the stall. I hear a voice like who do you think you are making?
Simple Words Real Connection
SPEAKER_01Alright, everybody, another day, another dollar, another one of my favorite episodes of my favorite podcast, because I am super biased. What if it did work? Now, today's episode cuts through the noise and gets real about something most people think they understand, but rarely practice. Pragmatism in a chaotic world. We're diving into the work of Mark Coleman, author of Planet Pragmatism. This isn't theory for the Ivory Tower. This is about how to think clearer, decide faster, act smarter when life, business, and leadership in reality, it always gets messy. Because let's be honest, the world doesn't reward the loudest voice, it rewards a person who can adapt, execute, and stay grounded when everything else is spinning. So if you've ever felt stuck and overthinking, overwhelmed by options, paralyzed by perfection, this conversation is going to hit home. How's it going, Mark?
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the show. You clearly dove into some of those pages, and I really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I gotta tell you this though, man. Uh, I've got two degrees in communication. The planet practi the pragmatism has three syllables. So if we can just keep everything to one and two, like at an eighth grade level, so everybody then I I can be your man. I I can write I can write excellent, excellent copy in that aspect.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Well, you know, as an author, that's funny you say that because as an author, uh we get lots of feedback at times and all different uh aspects of the work that we do. And I have had people tell me, like, hey, your writing is accessible. I I've also had people tell me I'm going to need a thesaurus to dig into this and understand it. So I get both. And uh, but as a writer and somebody who is trying to make that leap between what's in one's mind and you know, translate that into a really accessible piece of uh work that others can dive into.
SPEAKER_01I'm always loving feedback because I'll give you honest feedback, brother, because before I would get angry when somebody said, you know what, your your works, your two books, your videos, everything. You're for the simple person. And and now, granted, the ego is like, excuse me, I'm trying to be the I'm trying to be a cross between Edward Murrow and Ernest Hemingway. And I took a couple step backs and I'm like, what am I talking about? I I I've got two degrees in broadcast journalism, and and then I I just took that pivot that okay, so I'm for the simple person. So even better, then my message should resonate with those that need it more. Absolutely. So that's and and quite frankly, your your book, I mean, we're kindred spirits because I read it and it resonates because usually, and you're gonna laugh at this because after getting a divorce, I've dated both women that are educated, uneducated, and to me, people that are uneducated always try to overcompensate with words like I dated a girl that I grew up with, and she said she used the word nefarious. I'm like, nefarious. I'm like, the last time I heard that word was like practicing the SAT. I wanted to say, honey, the words like that, you know, people that go to school, we we talk normal, man. I'm not you know, I'm not parched, I'm thirsty.
Pivoting When Life Gets Messy
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Well, and that's just it. I and I think I love that. And by the way, I think that's the the the heart of a podcast and any modality, writing books or anything, is um having just a conversation and through writing, through music, through uh uh, you know, how we are doing it right here, as simple as we would just having it on a front porch or the back steps of one's home or just going for a walk, right? I mean, it's we don't have to overcomplicate things too much. I think everyone understands the big tough issues that are out there, and everyone's contending with different realities of their existence in their life. And we all have different ways of maybe making sense of it. And some people are educated, some people aren't. But I think um everyone's on this path, right? And trust trying to figure it out. So I think however we approach it, it comes back to what I come back to is this sense of dignity and humility that we all should, in a certain sense, carry with us when we're um carrying ourselves forward, but also recognizing those other parties, those other people that are engaging in our life and where they're coming from. Because at the end of the day, we're all in this together. And um that gets to the heart of like where I stem from a lot of how I approach uh my writing um on an extracurricular level, but um also just my daily work.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're all in this together, but also it's like your book about adapting. Clearly, uh just last weekend I was hanging out with my pledge brothers of my fraternity that I've known for over 30-something years. Yes, we communicate quite differently than if I it if I was in a room giving a presentation. It it's all about you to me, you will find success in every aspect if you know how to pivot, if you know how to adapt. Whether I mean, perfect example, we were having technical issues. Worst case scenario, we we were gonna we would overcome it because you know nobody's gonna flatline. If God in the universe wanted us to live longer, we would have just rescheduled it, it would have been just as great instead of like uh what was I gonna do? Like, do your diary, write in a journal. I I can't believe this. Why does this happen to me? Why does it happen to me? Is it it's called life, and and the you know, we all have had these delusions that if if we create a path and we follow that path that we'll never have to pivot, we'll never have to adapt. Yeah, that that sounds amazing in theory. That's amazing when when you're in an econ 101 class or whatnot, but but when the real world's throwing you punches and you realize, yeah, I I get I guess I guess it's not as simple as just following following a way to success, a pot a path to success, I mean.
Patterns Behind Stress And Anxiety
SPEAKER_00Totally. I I love what you're saying because when when you butt up against the um human emotive, uh power and you know what's going on in one's mind on a daily basis, usually those things that are based in fear, anxiety, or stress, they're stemming from what you just described, which is this inflexibility, this um, you know, not an inability, but this wall that most people, all of us hit at a certain level, right? And it takes a lot of, it doesn't take a lot of work to overcome it. It takes a lot of work to recognize the patterns and move around the patterns to say, I don't actually need to live or behave that way. Once I recognize my patterns, I can understand that anxiety, stress, fear, whatever it might be, might be overcoming myself and my situation. And I can actually go to a higher place, a higher mind, a higher sense of self to navigate through that in a very positive and productive way. And as you pointed out, a lot of this stems with going through different phases of life, but even going through different uh uh moments of our day um are uh we're confounded by this as well, right? So um somebody cuts you off in traffic, you uh you're in the coffee line, you and I were talking about this uh right before the podcast, and maybe uh your coffee wasn't delivered on time, or um it was the wrong order, or they called for the wrong name, or whatever it might be. Um, none of these are real um detrimental to our existence. Um, we tend to confound them uh more than they really need to be. Um but we're we are in a we are we do have that autonomy. Uh, we do have free agency and control. And what's happening, I believe, in the world today in many different ways is that I called it in the book, walking through this perennial fog, this idea that particularly with what I call unsocial media, this tendency to over-scroll and kind of doom scroll and look at the world through a filter of fear and fear-based uh marketing, um, or just over becoming overly desensitized to a lot of things that are happening at once. I don't believe our brains were built necessarily to process all that we do from a digital footprint the way that we do. And we're we're kind of like in that generation where we're now trying to understand how do we fit within that space, but also live a free and prosperous life and in a world that is dramatically changing, you know, the sea change underneath our feet is every single day. So many individuals across all uh aspects of life feel that, and I think a certain way. Um, how we manage it on a personal level uh is personal. Um, but I think what we're getting at to the heart of here is acknowledging that not losing our true sense of self, our true sense of identity, and leading life with a sense of pragmatism, as I point out in the book, the sense of, yeah, we have to have one foot in the past and think about where we've been. We need to be thinking about the future, but the decisions and how we behave and the principles that we hold true as values within how we construct our identity and how we lead ourselves through the world happen in the now, in the exact moment. And so we have to have those proper filters of understanding context of the past, having um uh a desire and a uh a premonition, if you will, of where life can take us, but we have to be willing to act um accordingly in the moment. Um, and and in my view, uh, even though I don't live it the best way every single day of my life through our best selves um in the moment. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, in the moment's the only thing that we have, but when you you talk about, yes, we love to romanticize the past uh on every aspect. Uh that's why most people are are they they're conflicted, they're start thinking you know, if only things could have been like the past. Was the past as amazing as the movies and that we do? No, no, come completely not. I mean, I I I I remember having to stand in line to uh uh outside of the LSU student union to fill out for an uh credit card application because they're giving out a free LSU MasterCard t-shirt. Now this or or just registering the classes because you know, when we think about the past, we don't think about how, you know, if if I was suicidal and if I needed Tony Robbins personal power, I would have to get if I put the rush uh order shipment, I would get it in 10 days, and I would have to hope my my depression could subside. You know, now we can get everything fast. Now, I mean, I remember my mom buying me an encyclopedia set from the door, the guy going door to door, and you know, Britannica didn't send you A through Z. They're like, okay, well, I I think this kid needs the S. And we'll send a book a month of outdated information. And it was never ST, it was always like, okay, well, maybe D. And then by the time you got the full cat, the full A through the Z, not only was it obsolete, but it was super obsolete.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, nothing because the the those of us that are old enough to remember all this is I'm you're absolutely right. And um, yeah, I and I and I think that's the that's the reality, right? That's the recognition. Um, we tend to, as you pointed out, we romanticize the past. We tend to think that life is this bubble that's going to be um, you know, exponentially great in every aspect of wherever we are and how it can grow and how we can um, you know, how it will reach us on our terms. Uh, but what we often forget to do is that we have to evolve. We have to be adaptive. We have to be, I like to say, uh preemptive, predictive, and proactive on our posture as we look around us and how we act accordingly in the moment and how we position ourselves for the future. Um, and and that means accepting things that sometimes are very difficult. That means being um, you know, more having humility, you know, towards uh others and the situations that arise within our world. Uh and that means having just a general respect, I think, for I in the book, I I focus on all living things, but certainly um our fellow, our fellow uh human, you know. So we we we tend to um spend a lot of time in our current state of affairs on the I, you know, the singular focus on the individual and how the individual kind of manifests our future within society. But as I like to say, it it takes you, me, and we to really create a, in my personal view, an enriched and prosperous life. And what I mean by that is we're putting faith and trust in ourselves, but we also have to put equal faith and trust in others in terms of where we go throughout our life and our journey, whether that's your teachers, whether that's your uh your your loved ones, whether that's your children, your parents, anybody who touches your life in some capacity, we have to you have to find that nexus of what does that relationship mean for you? What does that relationship mean for them? And how do you want to curate that? Um, and so I think part of when we find the struggle between our own self-identity and call it the selfishness of individual-focused reality, what we're butting up against is how that individual sense of self is actually interacting with those trust-based relationships in meaningful ways or not or non-meaningful ways. When they're more meaningful and they tend to feed not only our self-identity, but a sense of um growth and self-respect and care, uh, we tend to nurture them. But when they're coming at us in a way where we don't feel like we're getting to that point where we feel um that sense of individualism, but also that sense of belonging, um, we tend to uh you know feel like we're hitting that proverbial wall and tend to either distance ourselves or find a way to combat it in some in some way. Um and I think that that is the heart of being human in many ways. Um there's so much emotion built in the work that we do. Um, it does require energy and uh to be um reflective in the moment, self-reflective from a uh looking backwards point of view, but also um, you know, having the ability to hit pause, hit reset, and uh take one's uh ability to really calm the mind down and uh focus on your energy in a different way to be to be productive. Um and when I say productive, I mean all not just you know uh the sense of efficiency in terms of productive, um, but being able to meet others on a plane where it's receptive. You maybe find yourself in a position where you're helping them, they're helping you, but this is part of it, right? This is part of being human and uh I think accepting that um uh the totality of that mission um as we're here.
SPEAKER_01Now what do you think sometimes just the desent tape that big word? I told you it's more than two syllables. We become desensitized because of what we see. One, we're we're there's we interact less face to face. We we interact, we don't even speak to people on the phone anymore. I mean, you you hear people, haha, that guy. I I can't believe he's such a jerk. He called. Why couldn't he just text me? And it it's like you we go to if we went to a restaurant, first date, second date, third date, these 16, 17-year-old kids literally sitting across from each other and they're on their phone, and they're not on their phone scrolling, they're literally texting each other back and forth. I mean, the human emotions are are slowly draining. Not only that, but some of the stuff on all these reels, you can see people getting shot, stabbed, beat up, murdered, killed, and it's just like watching a movie because literally people aren't well, well, you know, if you watch it enough, you become desensitized, and it's like, well, that's not that's you know, it it's reality, it's not reality. Reality is our perception, reality is what we create in our own lives, instead of okay, well, I saw this guy again ran over by a car. Next hit of dopamine coming up, please.
AI Algorithms And Moral Drift
Redefining Prosperity Beyond Money
SPEAKER_00I I'm with you. I talk about it in the book in many different ways. One of them is um looking at the advance of artificial intelligence, our data-driven society on social media, the whole context that you just talked about. And um, you know, as I like to say, it's amazing that eight and a half plus billion people wake up every morning and we don't have more issues than we already do, quite frankly, right? Because of partly that individualization uh that I talked about of uh society, but also I think this um de um decentralized nature of technology and the desensitization that's happening um because of it. Um so as we all have our individual algorithm codified um and focused on who we are, what's happening is our shape of reality is becoming more and more distorted. And something is dramatically lost in translation. I, you know, for example, I don't fear AI outright. What I fear is um more of that shift in reality um and the lack of moral character that may carry through because of a desensitized generation that no longer view certain things as outrageous. And if we and I think we're at that fine line. And then as we approach that line, if we cross it, and I think we have in many ways already, but the more we cross it on a daily basis, the more we can't really go back necessarily because our brains have already been rewired or hardwired for survival and also wanting just to um protect ourselves, right? So when you think about a world where, again, I I come back at the book from this perspective of um the tagline of the book is called The New Path to Prosperity. The reason I titled the subtitle that way is because I really view at the crux of what we're talking about is a new look at what prosperity may look like for our generation, our children's generations, and beyond. And what I mean is right now, and talk about the romantic idealization of what perhaps the American dream ever is or was, you know, looking back to 1950s, and you know, you have a home and a couple kids and a couple cars and a happy family, and everybody's doing their thing, and the lawn is mowed, and all these different things, and money just seems to flow very well, and everybody's at the same level of um wealth and prosperity to a certain from a certain worldview. I'm not sure that ever even really did exist, right? And if it did, uh we we weren't part of it. And so where we are today is even more fragmented. And part of it could be a broader systems question and looking at big government, big corporations, big tech, and say these entities are to blame and we're all victims in the equation. But I think that's false and misleading. I think we have to, as individuals, citizens and consumers, find our place, find our voice, and find our autonomy to be able to look at this and say, hey, we do have a moral compass. We understand right from wrong, we understand that we want to provoke common sense for the common good, but we can't do it by just being a consumer of the algorithm. We have to find, we have to recognize, just like being aware of the fog, not just aware of it, but being able to navigate above it and beyond it so that we can actually rise to a point where we say, I see this for what it is. I believe in different values from what I'm seeing and hearing. And I actually have a sense, a moral code and a value structure that supersedes this. And so I have to tell myself, stop scrolling, tell my children, let's not look at these things. And then even take it a step further. Let's have these earnest conversations like you and I are having right now amongst our peers, our friends, our networks, uh, to really rewire the code and or combat it in a way that is more um aligned with the things we want to be doing, the conversations we want to be having and the lives that we want to be earnestly living, and toward some metric of prosperity that we redef redefine on our own terms, on our own timeline, and within our own sense of wisdom and spiritual prowess that gets us to a place that we truly want to be. Because right now we're following a pattern that's built upon economic structures, globalization, and a
SPEAKER_01uh network of you know um technocrats and bureaucrats and corporate elite that has been a code that's been serving humanity to this point but we know that the system isn't working for everyone right and we see that falling down all around us so so now is that time for us to really look at this moment and say it's more than an inflection point we're looking at ourselves in the mirror we maybe don't like what we see fully we have the autonomy to make you make that change now let's have the conversation about what should that change and be and where do we go from here well just think about this way Mark the word in in your book title prosperity we we have been so driven by chasing what what we consider happiness a lot of people material items titles wealth that that's the first thing they that that knee jerk reaction oh this book's gonna help me get wealthy it you know in all reality it's one of those words guys in the SAT ACT prosperity means to prosper it and you you mean it and if you when when you when everybody reads the book it's a completely different meaning it means to prosper within ourselves to prosper as a group to prosper as society because you know I I I mean here's a per another perfect example of of how far things in such a short amount of time I mean we're similar age the video Rodney King came out him getting beaten up by the LAPD 1991 it might for young people that seems like ancient times that's not that long ago and it was like holy smokes if we showed that to young a young generation it's like okay is this guy uh is this a movie they'd be like okay so what's the point is he an influencer you know is this a stunt it wouldn't be like oh my gosh and and it's funny because you know growing up we watch all these movies about the future that it's you know this dystopian society and everything's gray and no you know violence lack of empathy and and emotion and sometimes you know fiction can be a lot cre truer than the actual truth at times because it I I mean yeah we're like holy smokes these movies but you know we start watching it now and it's like well you know it's not that far from reality the the if if we don't make a change I don't make a change because you know we all want change but you know it literally starts from within absolutely absolutely and and and and if you think back to 1991 right and fast forward to today how many more incidents have we had how many more uh you know terrible shootings unnecessary deaths um the the you know uh expansion of you know hatred um we have not solved for systemic societal environmental economic challenges in our lifetime they've only been magnified now there's a couple pieces of this one is the appearance of magnification because we have social media and we have a um big network of data and information and video and everything that's getting fed to us on a daily basis is instantaneous, right?
Dropping Judgment And Choosing Compassion
SPEAKER_00You know, World War II, you know, something happened in Germany or France you know it took a telegram it took days weeks you know maybe months to reach the world before people understood really what was happening right now you can't you know walk 10 feet in your life without having an instantaneous um you know uh signal to one of your apps um letting you know what's happening in real time. That's a good thing um but it also may give us a false sense of severity or scale of issues, right? Because a lot of people jumping on one particular event without context and without proper understanding of what's going on situationally on the ground um can really explode into you know an emotional um challenge for people. And again I think it feeds that desensitization culture um and some of the challenges that we have that said we have to be matter of fact about this we have not solved for things um they've only gotten worse and I and I think that comes back to that sense of prosperity that you brought up and thank you for drawing upon that from the book in the sense of the broader context that I have for it. I do think folks can get wealthy, but I think we have to reassess that sense of wealth as you pointed out it's not just a material metric. It's one that's grounded in quality of life and we relook at what quality of life truly means I think most people that I talk to regardless of political spectrum, regardless of economic stratification, regardless of uh any other demographic um indicator that you might think of tend to value life and tend to value their fellow human beings and want to see other people successful and want to have a purpose within their own sense of control and self-identity and what they bring to the world. We tend to be born and advance within our environment and ecosystem in such a way that you know very rapidly we become um we develop those biases we develop that sense of judgment and we develop that sense of looking at others and saying you know I'm not the problem you're the problem and we have to dramatically uh change so much. And and I don't think these are grand challenges that have to cost a lot of money. I think 99% of it quite frankly is mindset. And like when we think about entrepreneurs or when we think about social change agents when we think about um diplomatic or dignified leaders that have tried to bring about change a mindset on how we go about and carry ourselves on a daily basis can go a long way um now it has to be enacted and it has to be driven forward and it has to have some grounding um but this this is certainly plausible it can happen it does exist in society but we tend to focus on the negative and we tend to focus on all the things that are going around as opposed to leading in a sense with those positive virtues that can make an incredible difference. Make no mistake this is not going to be easy there will probably be more challenges than not um but I think the idea is we have to more than be aware we have to acknowledge that the problem exists we have to want to be problem solvers um not just rely on others to solve these problems for us or kind of pass that baton forward for somebody else to do it for us. We have to lean in and wherever our skills our aptitude our sense of love and care can bring us that's the void that we can fill and I think everyone has a role that can uh be very powerful in that regard.
SPEAKER_01We have to also understand other people's worlds we can't just be it's us versus them because that's something that for the past I don't know 15 20 years I mean literally growing up nobody gave a crap if you voted for Algore or if you voted for the W. It wasn't like uh us versus them and now it's like oh well name calling and it it it's like how can we move forward and I would tell this to anybody it it if you're if you're coming from a place of judgment you judge someone why because they grew up in a rural area or they grew up somewhere else a thousand miles away from you I mean if if someone looks at at the map of the United States I mean we're a huge country full of all shapes sizes we don't even talk the same I mean we can't even get soft drink right whether it's a coke a pop a soda and you know exactly to me I I I love it and I just love traveling everywhere and seeing that I mean people don't realize if we were all the same and we wore the same stuff and we all believed in the same stuff things would just be boring but absolutely I love what you're saying. Yeah you have to you have to drop all the crap you can't be like well that guy that guy's a dick because he didn't vote for me or because he has he has different social views or political views or is he right left I mean to me being a left handed person I was always like who's you know that that was more intriguing growing up than you know I to this day I don't ask people what their political views are or the religious views because it really doesn't matter I'm gonna judge you based on who you are and how you treat people we can go to the same school but if I see you treating a server or someone handing you coffee like they're beneath you then yeah I'm not gonna be like well you know we voted the same so you and I we are the same.
Why Sustainability Needs Pragmatism
SPEAKER_00Absolutely you know I talk about it in the book in terms of this pendulum of pragmatism that's been swinging to the far left and far right and there's a political connotation to that but it's more than that too it's economic it's also spiritual it's also um based and grounded in um you know the the nature of all living things this idea that um the world is struggling in many ways not just those indicators that relate exactly to our quality of life and when we talk about um um what you're getting at I mean people come from that sense of fear ignorance hatred lack of love um and part of that is grounded in their environment where they came from what their understanding or misunderstandings are and we have to find it's very difficult but part of helping others move beyond that is also showing compassion in a way that may be very difficult for others to do on their behalf and toward them um at the same it's like think about the bully in high school right or middle school or anywhere oftentimes that bully annoying personality etc um often was a bully um you know because they may have had that lack of love they may have been bullied in their life too but they are also coming from a place of fear they're coming from a place of not understanding they're not just a bully to be a bully necessarily sometimes those exist too but oftentimes it's because there's something lacking in their world and when you show them a sense of compassion as opposed to giving them the receptive response that they want which might be anger or meeting them on the energy level that they're at in terms of just offering more bullying or just being with them to support them, what they end up realizing or what I've seen is that they break down, right? It may not be immediate. But we have to come at this with a sense of um compassion and understanding and that's really difficult. That requires others to swallow their pride in a sense look at situations and say I can't blame that individual fully it's also deeply rooted in where they came from and what they were taught in their environment. And that broader environment by the way is something I deeply believe we all own responsibility over. So we may not feel that we may not sense that but in a certain sense we are all part of this broader mosaic and ecosystem that's global it's local it's domestic and we have to understand that we do have a unique role to serve within that. And to your point um it's not about the one it's about the the the broader deeper sense of diversity and diversity makes us resilient and it makes us um having a more enriched existence in so many ways right um I was just on a call uh earlier today where somebody said I love your accent where's it from I'm like never thought I had an accent I got a good kick out of it. Um and I've had people ask me which uh Canadian hockey team I played for I remember that happening in in college and stuff too and I I never put two and two together but maybe being an upstate New York person uh I do have a certain uh dialogue that sticks with me more than I realize um but the point being um we all are unique but underneath all that is our sense of spirit our sense of self that actually binds us in really unique ways and we have to let go of our external um selfishness and our external individual sense of wanting to control everything and just recognize that we can become more enriched our quality of life can be enhanced and our sense of diversity when we accept it and really live within it uh can be can can bring great meaning great joy in my sense of the word prosperity to all of us uh when we lean into it and um kind of accept the challenge in that regard now Mark I've been meaning to ask you this was there like some defining moment that inspired you to write Planet pragmatism or what was it that got you that had that light bulb clip turn on and go I need we need this book so thanks for the question I appreciate that um this is my fourth book um three other titles I'll just run through them real quick the Sustainability Generation was in 2012 a book called Time to Trust was in 2014 and a book called the Dignity Doctrine was in um 2020 and I've been a practitioner um in my day job uh in the sustainability and resilience uh space for most of my career um whether it's helping organizations become uh more sustainable and do better in the world uh by virtue of how they for example uh decarbonize their energy or build better more resilient infrastructure or look for better health uh opportunities and outcomes uh for their uh customers um whatever it might be that's been my background in terms of helping enterprise derive those innovative solutions bring them to market and find more market-based ways for society to gain prosperity but through that lens of sustainability what I've noticed Omar particularly in the past um you know five, eight years and most of my um peers within this uh space would I think mostly agree is that sustainability has garnered a really terrible brand image um you know based upon the swinging pendulum of politics this notion that we have to have divisiveness to actually have progress which is completely false right so it you're either for decarbonization or you're not and if you're for it then you're on the other side of the fence and you're just wrong right um these absolutes are extremely dangerous the reality is we need all the above but not in a fickle sense we need all the above with a sense of pragmatism the world's not going to fully decouple itself from fossil-based energy overnight. I think pragmatists understand that innovators also know that we need differentiated types of advanced technology so that we can lessen our greenhouse impact and reduce the impact that we're having on the environment and society as a whole and also have a total quality of life multiplier that supports economic growth as well as social impact in positive and productive ways. And that includes things like equity, affordability, environmental justice and things that have impacting marginalized communities forever, right? So I wrote this book because in my personal view that sense of sustainability and how it's been brought forward in the business lingo and where I spent a lot of time in terms of education providing some support back as an adjunct faculty member at the Whitman School of Management at Syracuse University was really becoming constrained and really becoming um watered down in many ways and even controversial, right? I don't believe this needs to be controversial. I think this needs to be accessible and I think we need to find the common ground and the common language that allows others to peer into the space with a sense of optimism, hope, understanding and also a desire to want to lean in and do something about it differently. So Platinum pragmatism was born out of call it my career journey as a sustainability strategist and practitioner who's been in the trenches, who's been in the field, who spent 25 years doing a lot of great things, but also recognizing on the back end it's not over yet this is still in many ways entrenched warfare against different points of view and it shouldn't have to be that tough. And when I panned out of that Omar, what I also saw was this situation exists in other professions. We're creating our own um dogma and own uh challenges by virtue of this infighting that's happening within society that is just quite frankly unnecessary. Where should budgets flow? How do we prioritize resources? I just want to make these types of decisions over those kinds of decisions you know the biggest the better the you know point to the other people and say that they're wrong and I'm right um all these things, right? We live in a resource constrained world when it comes to natural resources, but more so we're beginning to live in a moral conviction constrained world and that's extremely dangerous. So this book was born out of that desire to reframe sustainability and relook at it through a fresh lens one that says we need to do both. We need to recognize that we're not going to change the over the world overnight. We need to be more pragmatic and pragmatist at heart.
Killing Paralysis By Analysis
SPEAKER_01And we also need to look at this redefinition of prosperity in a very constructive way that recognizes our limitations but also has great aptitude and hope for what we can do next in terms of moving humanity in a productive conversation and towards a um uh incredible and and bright and brilliant future well you're gonna laugh but I mean we're all so desensitized when you sent me the book and I I saw prosperity that's why I'm like okay for the hundredth time I'm gonna discuss with someone the proper steps that if you do something on a consistent basis from the A B C D E F you will prosper and then you know I'm not gonna lie I had that eye roll and then when I picked up the book and what I loved about it is this book if you're an entrepreneur it it has it it it has the to me the type of prosperity for everyone that overall decision making leadership how how to why we overanalyze things yeah yeah which is the number one thing that that that that to me kills so many people I either overanalyzing or waiting for the right time to do anything with your life I love that you said that and thank you so much because I all my books and this one in particular as I've been saying to others lately too is that we don't need another guru telling you what you need to do with your life to have it be special, happy prosperous wealthy if you need a 10-step list uh it's not necessarily in this book right as you pointed out um I would argue you don't need the 10-step list.
SPEAKER_00What you need to do is discover your inner sense of I love Simon Seneck's work in many ways. I think the idea of connecting with your why all that good stuff is a metaphor but I think it even runs deeper than that right it's beyond passion. It's beyond purpose it's this integral DNA that we all have which is grounded in wisdom that's already encoded within us and acknowledging that we also have a higher spiritual sense that wants to live in harmony but often is in conflict because of where we are in our lot in life and where we're born into this world and then the struggles and trials and tribulations that we have along the way, even the great successes and everything else. And then also acknowledging that um you know we we're not engineered necessarily to be those data analysts, right? We are living in this AI world everyone wants to make that move and that jump I love it. I support it to a certain extent but we are being um that proverbial paralysis by analysis as a society, right? So that gut feel, that gut check, that thing that tells you something is right or wrong, listen to that, right? This notion that we can do things differently and better and maybe I don't feel like this makes sense to me. It probably doesn't right and maybe you should be striving for something better in your life from an entrepreneurial conviction point of view yeah I mean you don't need somebody to tell you every task that you need to do go out there and do, right? This positioning around iconic unicorn entrepreneurs and tech elite and say that's the journey, that's the path that's the only way you can get there doesn't even make sense Right. And I try I try very carefully when I'm teaching the younger generation to acknowledge that, right? Because these are the icons that many people look up to at the same time as you already know. The majority of our small and big small and medium business owners and entrepreneurs around the world that account for greater than or nearly 50% of the employment are probably making less than$250,000 a year, you know, definitely less than a million dollars as an enterprise, right? These are people who are out there as innovators, they're creative uh folks, they're they're crushing it on a daily basis, and um, you know, they're really trying to find their path within their sense of identity and their sense of uh that conviction that they're bringing to the world in unique ways. So I think we need to not only celebrate that, I think we need to capitalize on that further, bring that sense of ingenuity back to all that we're doing. So many organizations in a bureaucratic sense have become, for lack of saying it a better way, lazy. Uh, they've lost that path of wanting to be fundamental change agents and have that sense of ingenuity. You look at how companies are bought and sold today, and it's a very much a financial metric. You look at um, you know, the profitability and the quarterly earnings, you know, that run the world, you know, and that's also just a binary review of what happened in the past 90 days. It's not necessarily whether or not quality of life was dramatically increased for the people around the world. We can couple these indicators together and create meaningful change in a way that brings humanity forward and lessens the challenges on our social indicators that are already stressed and overtaxed and environmental indicators as well, and also find that real cool nexus where people stop being divisive and start being divided and start being collaborative and um creative together.
SPEAKER_01Well, when you collaborate too, it it speeds up the process. If we all collaborated just to fix ourselves, to fix some of the ill will in this country, instead of just pointing fingers and saying, it's this, it's the left, it's the right, and just saying, man, how did we get here? Why don't we solve it together instead of well, you know, it's it's it's he said she said that that that's all always gonna be a bunch of of of BS. And then then also it's funny that you talk about gurus. I I think a lot of us too are stuck with these it's like a checklist. If you hit all these things, then like nirvana, you're gonna have this spiritual awakening, spiritual alignment that you're gonna be happy because someone that's charging you on his on his belief system, we don't even know if it's his belief system, he can just most most gurus are actors, but if you follow this step by step, and it's like a multi-level marketing. Well, if you okay, you got to this level, if you really want the to to get even so to increase your happiness, you're gonna have to pay to go to this more expensive seminar and whatnot. And people get all caught up because they're f they're following these gurus on social media, and they're like, Oh my gosh, I want that lifestyle. Not only that, but oh, they they look like an amazing husband and amazing wife, and and this is let let let me be a carb, let me car be a carbon copy of this guru, and and try to be just as fake and insincere and as inauthentic, because that is their way to prosperity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's as you know, it's so false, misleading, and just outright ridiculous, right? Um, and the same holds true for I think the power we give, in a sense, those false prophets that exist within humanity today who are telling us this is their path, this is what we need to follow, this is what we need to do. I think we all need to look at that with a sense of um discernment um and honesty and really dig deeper with within ourselves. We we have the answers. I don't want to have a Yoda moment, right? That's not where I come from.
SPEAKER_01Mark, I told that to put it all the time. It's it's all within us, but every answer. We we don't but it's within us, it's within us. Oh, yes, 100%.
Leadership That Listens More
SPEAKER_00But what I would say is as I tell my my kids, it's okay to go through life and also make mistakes. It's okay, that's where we're you're gonna have your learning, that's where you're gonna have your growth. Um, nothing is ever linear. And by the way, to your point, follow those 10 steps or 20 steps or whatever you want to the best of your ability. And if it all works out, more power to you. But I'm willing to say, and I'm not trying to be um negative on this, as at least in my life, um, you know, that's when life sometimes throws you something you just didn't see coming either, right? So it that sense of preparedness, that sense of um what you bring to that moment when that moment does happen, and it likely will for most anybody in some regard, whether it's health or economic or love or anything in between, um, whatever you think is a sense of prosperity, um, you're only going to be prepared um by the way that you show up in that moment. And no, no one's gonna tell you how to show up in that moment, even if they've lived that moment. Uh, your background, your experience, uh, all the indicators that make you whole and who you are, that's what makes us unique. And that's what makes life kind of really cool. Um, so, you know, I'm not against everybody out there with wisdom and uh great ideas to share. I read some of those books, I've gone to things, I listen to them as well. Um, you know, um, but I also come back to the sense of what do I walk away when I consume that information? What's it mean to me? And when I go back to my inner sense of what's my code, what drives me, what's my motivators for the time being in my moment, um, and go through that filter that helps either add value or kind of uh look at it and say, Yeah, I can take these things and maybe not uh accept all of it, right? Um yeah. So, you know, I think everyone has their has their way that they're kind of continuing to live, learn, grow, and then ultimately lead. Um, but it's that last one that I come back to, you know, getting to what you're talking about before. I think we're starved for really good leadership. I'm not even sure anymore. We know exactly what that looks like, um, and not just in the big sense, the big sense of society and politics and and business, but I think also in civil society. I think this notion that we have to go back to school on civics, we have to go back to school on what it means to be, and I'm not bringing this to a domestic uh US-based uh persona, I think there's a sense of a global citizen, just a good human being, and have these wholehearted conversations. Um, I have friends around the world in different regions, and we communicate on lots of different things. But as you pointed out earlier in our in our talk here, um, it's not based on politics, it's not based on economic status or other things. Uh I have friends and colleagues across all different perspectives. Um it comes back to a sense of just I like this person, they have a good heart. We understand each other. Uh we have yeah, even if we don't agree and we rarely do on everything all the time, uh, we enjoy each other's company and we're bringing to it this innate desire to learn from each other and respect each other at its core. And that ultimately is what makes great relationships work.
SPEAKER_01Um relationships always work when you just you don't you never come from a place of judgment. You try to understand their their world, you listen to them, and you you you don't just throw up feedback unless they're asking for it. Sometimes people just just want someone to to talk to about their situation.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And so that sense of individualism and selfishness, it's not all about us, right? We have to be willing just to stop talking, be better listeners, filter through the noise of our daily lives, but accept the idea that our role sometimes is just um being a great listener. You know, I used to joke in front of my uh one of the classes I teach at the college level, you know, oftentimes, you know, I think about my relationship with my wife and or any woman in this regard, but I think it's and it's it's not a male-female thing necessarily. It's not necessarily gender specific, but it's that idea that men do sometimes to come at things that want to be problem solvers, and all she's looking for is somebody to listen, right? She doesn't need me to answer every question. She knows the past, she knows the answer. She just needs a somebody to be able to acknowledge, maybe um understand, maybe offer a couple ideas, but but it's not uh, hey, this is what you should do, and you know, let me go take care of this. And so we have to we have to learn behaviorally that it's not about us. And while we may love and appreciate or trust the other person and we want to help them thoroughly, sometimes lending ourselves our and our compassion that goes a long way at just um being there quite quite frankly, and so plenty of people are listening.
SPEAKER_01They they uh I know you've awakened something, or I hope you've stirred something in a lot of people. What's something that they can do right now, especially since in general we feel stuck? What can we do moving forward to try to make the world more well just to make our own surroundings more prosperous?
SPEAKER_00You know, just um the stillness of oneself, you know, the idea of and I struggle with this on a daily basis. I f today was one of those days where I'm like, wow, I need to take a digital uh hibernation, go outside, even if it's raining, and just find that place where I can think clearly and alone. Um prosperity, prosperity does not have to cost anything. Prosperity doesn't mean a bigger house or more material things, as we were talking about. Um it can be the most nurturing and very basic thing. It could be going to your favorite spot where you walk, it could be going to exercise, it could be just finding that quiet time with yourself, or if you choose to spend it with somebody else, uh terrific. Um, so I think just starting very basic, very small, and kind of having a detox from the world that's around you and hitting pause for a moment and collecting your thoughts, don't want to wait space and time to truly get into understanding of who you are, what's going on, and what comes next. Um, we all have those voices within our brains that are always beckoning us to lose or be more or go do more, or maybe we didn't get to these for our family in certain regards as a parent, a father, uh a spouse, anything, right? Um and so we have to find that space and time to get us kind of recoil our own sense of identity so that we can offer that strength and energy when the time comes to ourselves, but also to those that uh entrust us within their lives on a daily basis as well. So I always start there, Omar, because I think that's what sometimes leave as a void. They feel like, well, I'm gonna go ways today, or I'm going to go help. And it's sometimes adding just more layers of busyness to their life when really what they might need is layers of quietness. Uh like me, they don't like to be alone with their thoughts necessarily, right? It's not always the best space to be in, right? But I think when you and you're able to calm yourself down and you get back to a place of understanding. Um, and by the way, when we talk about trust, we talk about things like self-care, we talk about love, these are things that you have to do for yourself too, right? Um, and I think when I have these conversations with people, I often butt up against the idea that sometimes we have have negative self-talk. And there's plenty of books and resources out there and this kind of thing, but um, it is a true psychological phenomenon, right? We all do it to a certain extent. And so what's going within us and saying, hey, um I'm bigger than that, I'm better than that. I can overcome these things, I need a moment of rest, and listening to your energy levels um is a good way just to start that process, in my view.
Where To Buy The Book
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Mark, thank you for the opportunity. I have to I know how to find the book. In fact, it's such an amazing book. I I plan on buying two copies for my two daughters. But Mark, where where does the listener get the opportunity of buying your book? Planet Prosperity.
SPEAKER_00They can find Planet Prag Prag Planet Pragmatism, the new path to prosperity, at my webs yep, at my website, Mark Coleman Insights.com. Please check it out. Uh get in touch with me if I can ever be of uh help or if anybody ever has questions or just wants to say hello, uh, love engaging with uh readers and those that find wisdom in it. Um yeah, and thank you so much, Omar. It's been uh uh a wonderful conversation. I'm deeply uh thankful and uh for for your time and great questions and wish you all the best as well.
SPEAKER_01And Mark, no, thank you. Thank you for wanting to just step down and try to change the world. You know, that that's living in purpose. That's that's be that to me, that's success, is trying to live in service and help out other people. Instead of saying I, I, I, I, once we start focusing on you and we, man, just that little shift will change everything. I want you to have an amazing rest of your night. I want you to have a great day or great evening with your family, and an open invite whenever you want to discuss anything, any new books, or when we see that positive shift, you can clearly come on board. And thank you for being an amazing guest on What Did Work, brother. Thank you.