What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Why Indecision Quietly Breaks Leadership
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Indecision looks harmless until you watch what it does to a team. The longer a leader waits for perfect clarity, the more momentum leaks out of the room, and the more “temporary” workarounds become the permanent culture. We sit down with global leadership coach Crispin Thompson to get brutally practical about why smart, capable people freeze and what it takes to make clean decisions without pretending the risk is not real.
We break hesitation into three drivers you can actually diagnose: fear of the downside, overthinking every scenario, and imposter syndrome that questions whether you even have the right to decide. From there, Crispin shares what he has learned leading multinational teams, including how trust is built through ownership, why toxic employees can’t be “waited out,” and how inconsistent standards quietly destroy credibility. You’ll also hear simple decision tests for when more data is useful and when “waiting for more information” is just fear with better branding.
We also go deep on communication: how to deliver hard news with empathy, how to explain the impact up front, and why teams follow leaders who are human, not leaders who perform certainty. Then we shift to AI in leadership development, where Crispin explains how he uses AI as an adjunct coach to extend learning between sessions and why leaders should treat AI as an augmentation tool, not a crutch.
If you’re leading a company, a team, or a family, you’ll leave with a sharper decision-making framework and a challenge you can act on today. Subscribe, share this with a leader who’s stuck, and leave a review with one decision you’re ready to make this week.
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Opening And The Cost Of Waiting
SPEAKER_02Another one of my favorite episodes of my favorite podcast because I'm biased. What if it did work? And welcome back to this amazing podcast. What if it did work? Let me ask you something. How many times have you delayed the decision? Waiting for more clarity, waiting for more certainty, waiting for that perfect moment, waiting in vain, like you were Bob Marley. And in that waiting, momentum died. Today's guest believes indecision kills more than Corona. It's a silent killer of leadership, not failure, not bad strategy, not even competition. Indecision, Chrisman Thompson is a global leadership coach with over 25 years of experience shaping multinational teams and transforming organizations. Help professionals get heard, take ownership, and make decisions with visibility. So teams rally instead of stall. Also develop AI power tools, man, to extend leadership, impact, and serve on the Make a Wish Central and South Texas Governing Board, grounding their work and service, not ego. If you've ever struggled with overthinking, hesitation, or leading without clarity, this episode is for you. Welcome, Crispin. How's it going?
SPEAKER_01You know, it's pretty good. It's been a it's been a good week so far, and I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02Man, I'd I I'd love to hear that, man, and and talk about man uh leadership. Why why do people are so afraid? Is it because they overthink or is it because they they believe in the worst case scenario, which is usually death or humiliation, or going to like creditor jail,
Why Leaders Freeze: Three Causes
SPEAKER_02or you know so so many other things?
SPEAKER_01I think it's I think it's a lot of things, right? I think the there's there's the thinking about the the what if bad scenario. There's the the you know the kind of the overthinking of well there's so let me let me break into three things, right? So there's there's the the thinking about the bad scenario, like this could fail, you know, why am I doing this, blah, blah, blah. There's just the pure overthinking. So it's not about whether you think about whether it's going to fail. You're just trying to over, you're just trying to think through every possible scenario. And and very often, especially in business, speed is much more of a factor than than the right decision if it was made in in just a really long period of time. And the third thing that that I see in a lot of folks is just like imposter syndrome. Like, you know, it's it's just self-doubt. Why am I here? Why me? Why, you know, am I even the right person to whether or not I'm making the right decision now? Why am I even the right person to make that decision? So I I think it falls into the probably one of those three buckets more often than not.
SPEAKER_02Now, 25 plus years of leading global teams, that's a lot, man. Believe it or not, I'm I'm not trying to hit on you, dude, but I mean, did you start like at in your early 20s?
SPEAKER_01Because you I did, I did, yeah, I did, I did start my early 20s. I uh there was a time, by the way, when like especially the beginning of my career, when I was I was usually the youngest person in the room, and then for a long time, I always just felt like I was young and and the the years didn't show, and now I'm I'm seeing in my reflection, I'm seeing the wide of my beard, this sort of thing, right? So so I I believe the the you know 25, 28, whatever the number is now, like those number of years is more believable than than maybe it was you know X number of years ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but X number of years ago were were they ever like uh Crispin? I think you're a little too young to help us with this leadership aspect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so and and and let's say two things, right? Because in the beginning I was too young, right? I I think and and maybe didn't even see it. I think I had maybe a little more self-belief than I had talent in in the beginning, and and I had to kind of work through that or or more accurately have it worked through with me. And and then there was this this kind of interim period, right? Where I was I was starting to achieve some success in my career and you know, was wanting to to kind of drive more of this this thing that I like to do, which is you know, lead and coach and all that. And and and there was pushback, you know, you you lack the experience, you know, the you you haven't seen and done enough. You're gonna, you're maybe you're gonna have a credibility gap. And I think the first couple of times I heard that, I believed it, right? Going back to imposter syndrome. And but then I got to the point of just let me try. So what just let me try it. You know, I I I I would happy, I'll happily deal with failure if it turns out that this thing I think I'm good at, I'm not good at. And and then I just got to a point in my career where I wasn't so important that I could do whatever I wanted, but I was important enough that there were things that the company would allow me to do, and and it wouldn't so long as it wasn't getting away with you know running the orb or whatnot, I could just do it and try it. And you know, it became a kind of moment of experimentation a little bit. You know, let's try things, let's see what works, let's see what I like as well, and let it start to come together. And you know, eventually it coalesced into what is today the leadership studio.
SPEAKER_02No, the leadership studio, the the culmination of all these years, I have to ask you, because people aren't born leaders, they were created by becoming a leader and decision after decision after decision. Now, were you thrusted? Like, would was your family heavily into personal development and business development with while you were growing up? And that's why
Growing Into Leadership Through Experimentation
SPEAKER_02you know you you had this hit, you know, head start or no, I I think I think no, I would say far from it.
SPEAKER_01I I at least in terms of of kind of me and how I felt, I I think my family was and is supportive, and I think for sure my folks, you know, were very good about making sure that myself and my brothers believed that we could we could do what we want to do. We if you know whatever whatever that is. And and there were things they wanted to focus on, and and probably a uh there's a big focus with leadership studio, but can we put a premium on communication as a as a core aspect of successful leadership? And I think for sure that came through very loud and clear from from both my dad and my mom. But but I would not say, you know, I think there are people that are sort of have natural leadership tendencies, and and I don't know that I saw that in myself at the beginning. And for sure, if you need to be inspiring as a leader, and I think that's a a great attribute, if you need to come across as authentic or genuine, I definitely think I lacked that in the beginning. So if if you needed someone to stand up and and make some kind of speech or give a presentation or rally the troops, I mean, for sure there was a phase in my career when it was anyone other than me. And and I think at the beginning I was happy for that until I until I began to see that that ability to differentiate, that ability to inspire, that ability, that ability to lead, let's call it that, was was accelerating other people in their own career. And and I realized that there wasn't anything that I was seeing them do that I couldn't myself do. And so I just had to, I had to work on it. I had to people ask me a lot, like what's a big talent that leaders need or a core attribute, whatnot. And and of course there's many things, but I but I've said this a million times, introspection. Look inside yourself, know what you're good at, know what you're not good at, make decisions. You know, if you're not good at something, can you be? Do you want to be? And and start to really hone on that. But be but have that honest conversation, like really look at yourself and then let it start to come together.
SPEAKER_02No, of course we're gonna have to ask this one since what's the most common leadership flaw that you've seen in general.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think there's there's two big ones. I think one is and this is maybe it's the it's the loudest or more egregious, but it's it's thankfully it's not the the most common, but hubris. You know, the the I'm the leader, you'll do what I say, I know right no matter what. I think I I don't think we have to have a full collaboration kumbaya type moment to lead and lead successfully, but but I do think that the the dictator approach, you know, the the full other end of that particular spectrum does not work in most cases. And and I'll I'll talk in a second about when and when and why it can work. But but I also think, you know, if I if I think about other aspects, the the I think a lot about emotional intelligence. I think a lot about you know how do leaders create engagement, because I think it's easy, relatively speaking. It's easy to lead when everything is great. It's easy to lead when when the sales are going up and the product is loved, or whatever the thing is, right? When everything is going well, that's easy. But when when there's a global pandemic or when you know the product doesn't sell the way we think it does, or what that, those things are hard. And that's where this, you know, the the paying in to making those deposits to create this connection, these links, this thing with you with your with your team, with your organization, with those around you, that begins to pay off because when when you have shown them as a leader that you can be trusted, when you have shown them as a leader that you're you're there not just to to lead, but you're kind of there to help them be successful as well, then they're they'll rally behind you when when those things are not as good. And that becomes, I think, really powerful.
SPEAKER_02Now, Crispin, why do so many companies still have the outdated dictatorship? And it's usually the company that has the the posters, the leadership with and and teamwork all over their the office with you know everybody rowing together and leaderships with the eagle. And it's it's usually they have this huge thing from HR on things that you cannot do, which everything except even if you have to breathe, you have to you have to ask. And why is it usually those type of people? And and they don't even care, they don't even notice that they have like uh this revolving door. It looks like one of those hotels in New York City with the revolving door because they've they've got people coming in and out left and right.
SPEAKER_01You know, it it's I think it it's it depends obviously on on the company, the environment, kind of what's going on. So I think if if it's in a high pressure, deliver it now, like a project program, whatever kind of environment, I think there's a case to be made for if if something was already broken, there's no harm in bringing in having that sort of do it my way or no way kind of style. But but then you have to deal with those consequences. Like you're talking about the revolving dory and and the fallout, right? You know, I had a a guy that worked for me who who I would argue was amazing at delivery, but at what cost? You know, the the the bodies behind that were that never wanted to work for them or anyone ever again was was maybe not worth it. So you could I would hire him today if I had a high-stakes project that was due in six weeks, but I would also have to deal with the consequences of the teammates that that that you know couldn't couldn't deal with that particular style. And and what happens is when we overvalue the immediacy of results versus the long-term you know progression or growth and and and development of our people, then you wind up, you know, we we tolerate, we accept, maybe we even embolden people to act in in those ways.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Now, uh Crispin, why do you
Hubris, Trust, And Owning Results
SPEAKER_02call indecision uh the silent killer of leadership?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because it's there so I have a I can talk about two things here, but but the for me, uh what I saw was so often just just making a decision. I think I think it's an it's an interesting concept, by the way. When when we talk about leaders and leading, and and obviously there's an implication, there's there's an implied like you're going to be making decisions and and this and that, uh so often it's not like because so many companies have created these these areas where there's there's not clear ownership anymore. There's this this like managed on behalf of or matrixed environment that it becomes easy to not have to be the person who says yes or no. You can be a contributor toward a yes or no, but because you're not the one who ultimately had to say it, it begins to foster kind of this this culture. And then what happens is instead of being the person who says yes or no, no one says yes or no. It's you we all we we we live with like a very slowly evolving status quo, and we never get to to big transformational change. And then when big transformational change is foisted upon us, everyone freaks out because they're so they become so accustomed to, oh, we're not going to think about this, or we're gonna push it down. And by the way, there's a million excuses in every corporation for why we can't make a decision. There's, oh, there's a budget meeting next week, or HR rules don't let us do this right now. There's always a million reasons. Some are good, some are not, some are valid, some are not. But it becomes when you when you allow yourself as a leader to become that person who doesn't have to take a stake, who doesn't have to ever roll the dice and and deal with the consequences, then your team begins to accept that, and everyone begins to just accept that things don't change or things change slowly, or this person, this leader, is incapable of making things any better, probably any worse, too, but any better than than they are. And and we begin to deal, like we we deal with mediocrity, we deal with you know a lack of acceleration, and and it's sad when we see that, I think. And and I I the I have a very personal story I can talk about around around indecision and critical moments and and how that can have you know very real impacts as well. But I think in just day-to-day things where life and death are not on the line, we prolong things, we push things out, it's easy, it's there's no we we can we can push the risk to someone else. And and I think as a maybe even as a society, we've become more risk-averse than we should. Risk is like it's we should be bold. We should feel emboldened to be bold. And when we make big decisions, sometimes they're they're gonna be great and sometimes they're not. But we should take, we should choose to learn from why a decision was maybe not the right one versus overanalyzing this paralysis through analysis or out of a thing that that happens so often and we just don't decide.
SPEAKER_02Well, indecision too, a lot of times I I always feel my my is okay, let's not deal with this right now. Let's let's let's push it aside and and hope the problem goes away. Like let's hope that bad employee, that cancer let's hope he just leaves. It never happens that way. But the the in the indecision is well, I don't I don't want to be the bad guy. Valentine's Days in a couple days, uh Marty Gras in the couple is the following. There's all this because you don't want to be the bad guy, you don't want to be the bearer of bad news. How do we know? How do we know if you you know with the right proper training? How do we uh well maybe somebody else can do that? Indecision right there. It it it's uh I I mean I I know it because unfortunately, to be a great leader, especially when you own your own company, you have to have years in service to understand that it it's like if somebody's bleeding out, do you want the indecision? See, kind of like yeah, maybe it'll clot on its own. Yeah, that's uh it doesn't look that bad, you know? Yeah, eventually, yeah, eventually something's gonna happen positive. We'll just let it uh but I I I think I saw this once on an episode of ER or Gray's Anatomy. Uh, should I call uh 911? But how about if it takes them too long? How about if he gets pissed off because he gets the bill from the ambulance? Guys gonna die.
SPEAKER_01You know what's interesting though, when when we talk about about because you you talk about like the like the cancerous personality, like the the the person, like we just we we know they don't belong here, we know they're they're causing harm, but like you said, it's it's Valentine's Day and two days or whatever, like we don't want to be that person right now. There's a there's a there's a bunch of problems in that in that scenario. First of all, when when it's a person who needs to be better, when especially if they're if they're causing issues kind of around them, whether it's performance or it's morale or whatnot, if if we if we don't act, then we are tacitly accepting that it's okay, right? That that morale hit, that those the performance that that it's okay. But more moreover, I think the people, like the other people around, the coworkers, the colleagues, the teammates, they're gonna look at this person and think they're terrible. The boss knows they're terrible, but we're not doing anything about it. So the boss accepts that. And then and it's like we've we've now created this new tolerance. And then it lets fast forward in a week, a month, a quarter, whatever, and and there's some other person. And maybe it's maybe it's me, right? I'm I'm the person now who's creating bad morale or bad performance, and then they do something for me. Well, now it creates this whole conversation around double standards. Why, why this person, why that? And so if we could have had a a decision, like we could have acted, doesn't matter the timing. We also show consistency, we show accountability, which is great in in any organization, big or small, that that actions matter and actions have consequences, positive and negative, that then we can, you know, we begin to kind of create that example that can be rallied around in the future.
SPEAKER_02Well, also talk about losing trust and respect completely. You you just lowered your standards. How can they respect you? And there the the trust goes out because I mean how how about me? How about if I don't get that same treatment? Yeah. If I if I get the hee ho, while that guy, that that incompetent guy, he's still there and he's getting chance after chance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, of course, then if it's a big company, right? If you if you do have two people who were treated differently, you create it up, you create whole legal exposure too, right? Because now we have to wonder, you know, what else was going on, and it's and it's unnecessary because often there was no nefarious thing going on. It was just, I didn't want to deal with this today. Uh, like you said, it'll be maybe they'll get a new job, maybe they'll transfer, maybe I'll transfer, whatever, and this will be someone else's problem. And and then we create this can-kicking culture, right? That it's okay to it's okay to shift this down the road.
SPEAKER_02No, Chris, when what's worse? The person that makes the wrong decision, or the person that's on the sideline making none at all.
SPEAKER_01Uh the person, the person the worst is is the person on the sidelines, right? I I think the I couldn't count how many times I've I've made decisions in my in my career. Many of them turned out to be the wrong thing in the moment or or the wrong thing for the timing or whatnot. But when we make decisions, it's it's not like everything is not going to be a winner. You don't go and buy a lottery chicken. No, you're going to win every time. You you make the decision to spend a buck or whatever in the hope, right? But the the we make these decisions based on what we know. Whether it's it's
Indecision Culture And Decision Tests
SPEAKER_01fact, it's it's trajectory, we're seeing history, we're seeing numbers, it's just intuition. We have to we have to trust ourselves and the facts around us to make decisions. Because if we wait for that perfect moment, it's likely to have passed us by. We're likely to see it when it's too when it's too late. And therefore, when we make when we do make the decision, we're gonna lessen the impact that it could happen. Now, the flip side of that is if you just keep making bad decisions, we have to question the matrix around decision making. We have to look at what were the facts, what led to to the decision. And I think we have to have an honest conversation. If if I make a decision about you know whatever it is we're gonna do in an organization and it turns out to be wrong, okay, let's let's deal with that. Let's let's also look at why was it wrong, what made it wrong, is it is it fully non-doable, is it just not doable right now, what led to that, and then and then also let there be consequences. If it's a catastrophic failure, it should sit with me, right? I should I should own that decision. I I would rather you know have a negative consequence for a decision made than no consequence for no decision. True.
SPEAKER_02No, Chrisman. How do we know when waiting for more data? I love that one. Is actually atmosphere.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think we uh the there's always good like litmus tests to put in this. So it's you know, what's the how confident are we in the decision today based on what we can see? And how much more confidence would we get based on What amount of additional data and and then what's the timing along that? The analogy I think about sometimes is is like if if I'm driving down the road and I've got to get somewhere and I'm I'm running a little bit behind and I'm going 75 miles an hour and I'm and I'm passing people and I'm looking and I'm gonna be late. If I push it to 85, it's now much more dangerous, let's say, and I'm not really going to achieve much more, right? The the the the the additional time that I would save is gonna be in seconds, not minutes, unless it's a you know a fast distance. So this you know, thinking about like we act with what we can see and we stick with the plan too. I think that's also important. That's so adaptation is great, but we should not be the the types of leaders that want to go left today, then right tomorrow, then right tomorrow, then left today. Like we need to we need to have some sense of of direction that we can hear to. Otherwise, our teams won't trust us either, right? You you mentioned that before. Like the they'll lose faith in the leader. And when you lose faith in the leader, then you're not gonna get anything great done anymore because no one's gonna be willing to to make that leap. So I'd rather have a bad decision today if we can if we can analyze why than just kind of sit and constantly wait. Now, the if it's something like, oh, we're let's let's see how we're gonna price this big deal, and we know that tomorrow we're going to see results that are gonna impact how much or how little we should discount. I'm okay for tomorrow. But if tomorrow is an ill-defined, undefined, unable to be defined period of time where I just need to see X number more before I'm gonna feel comfortable, that's just fear. That's just fear. And we should be willing to trust in ourselves that we're making the right decisions.
SPEAKER_02Then why do smart, capable professionals, especially business owners, entrepreneurs, still have this major struggle just to decide, to make any decision?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so because fear is fear, right? I mean, it's it's and I and I won't say that that I'm captain decisive on every single thing every single time. I'd like to think that more often than not, I am. But have I succumbed to paralysis through analysis? Have I succumbed to uh maybe I'll I'll wait a quarter, see what shakes out. Hell yeah. But but I'm also willing to realize that's what I've done and and kind of get past it. And then, you know, I'm willing to take this kind of look backwards sometimes too, and look at here's the sum of decisions I've made that were critical over the last six months. Here's the ones that that waited. And every once in a while, the other thing happens too, right? Something you waited on turns out to have been the right decision. Now, that's that can that cuts the other direction sometimes, right? Then it encourages you to to wait, but we have to figure out like again, back to the the decision matrix. What what mattered? Why did it matter? Why why was waiting the right decision so that we can just learn from it and again accelerate that so that we hopefully have fewer waiting periods in the future.
SPEAKER_02And there's always that fine line, anyways, between healthy analysis versus paralysis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's you know, each of us will know, right? We'll know what's really, really driving this if we're willing to have that honest conversation with ourselves. And I think that you know, it's gotta be honest, right? We've got to really believe really truly say, and if it's fear, fine, own it. I'm I'm afraid to make decisions right now. There's too much at risk. It's you know, it's my own business. This is too much of capital in hand, whatever. But but own that.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's honesty. Can you imagine that? That amount of vulnerability. Holy stuff, man. Yeah, it's not easy. That that that would be refreshing because a lot of times the narcissists, uh especially an entrepreneurs, well, leaders in general, they don't want you to know that. But and we had this these delusions that even these great vet uh leaders that we read throughout the history books, whether General MacArthur and General Patton and General Eisenhower, and the list goes on and on that they had uh the you know this mental fortitude that they weren't fearful of anything. And you know, we're all human, everybody fears, everybody has fear.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the they all made mistakes though, too, right? Each of each of them had tactical and strategic errors. Each of them had in the cases of MacArthur especially, they had delays that that cost you know hundreds or thousands, right, of lives in in making a decision or lacking a decision. And so I I think that's the but they you said this fortitude, right? This this internal fortitude to kind of turn around and say, I can't, I cannot live in the past. I have to look at what's what's right for today, what's right for tomorrow. And I think that's uh, you know, we can't change the past anyway, right? There's there's there's very little gained in trying to second or third guess, you know, prior prior decisions. I and I, you know, the the the more positive way of saying this, and and this is something that I believe in my core, is that you know, we're a product of our experiences. And in so long as we don't hate who we are today, we should also trust that if things go wrong, we're gonna get past it. If we make a bad decision, we're gonna get past it and be able to keep kind of pushing forward and and like you said, having an honest being like be transparent, be a little vulnerable. I think the one of the things that I I like quite a bit about the the way we do coaching at at uh at my company is most of it's based on just things I've screwed up, my own personal failures and my own career, and just kind of be better than I was, and you'll be on a great path. So I and I'm super transparent about that. And I and I think if if we're more willing to be more human, then it allows others to kind of you know fall along and and and kind of get in line too.
SPEAKER_02Well, people are probably shocked that oh my gosh, are you telling me you can't walk on water? That you're you're telling me leaders do mess up. But believe it or not, just hearing that it it takes a lot of pressure off. It it's like the pressure of the world when you feel that it's life from life and death, or or you're the only one that will ever make a mistake, because a lot of times uh you you do feel that way, even though the it's irrational thinking because the rationale is people make horrible decisions every single day, and most of the time they just dust up and move forward, and it's it's really not even failure a lot of times because it's it's like going to college. You you have to pay time, money, that's a lesson.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and and I think it's you know, there's there's there's mental and and and aspects here. Like one thing I always believed, and and I would try to coach across my teams is it's just just continuous improvement, be better today than you were yesterday. If something doesn't go right, I'm we should be concerned on how do we find it, what actually broke, and how do we keep it from breaking again, right? That should be the focus versus the who or the what or the when, all these things. I also think that you know, as as leadership cultures exist, I one one kind of model that I believed in very strongly in in corporate life was that praise should go downward and blame should go upward. So if something does go very, very poorly, the leaders should own that. We should it, we didn't, we failed to put you know the right structure in place or we didn't train teams or whatever. And don't let the person who maybe did the you know the finger to keyboard entry feel that that pressure. And conversely, same thing, right? Something goes really, really well, make sure we absolutely highlight the team or the person or whatever so that the leader isn't basking in the glow of something that that they manage someone who managed someone who managed someone to actually do, right? Let's let's make sure we kind of flip that model a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Wow, talk about refreshing because uh I think one of the reasons why after so many years of working in corporate America, I I became an entrepreneur for 20 years was because it was the opposite. It you know, I've all all my bosses acted like they they cured cancer, that that they could walk on water uh and never accepted accountability whenever the corporation or whatnot didn't hit the target, it was always everybody else's fault.
SPEAKER_01You know, I was at I was at HP for a long time, and and you know, famously they had this great culture, especially that started with Hewlett and Packard, right? And and it was a kind of everyone all together, you know, we're doing the right thing. And I remember I distinctly remember the first time that I saw someone who wasn't even directly in my leadership chain, but was adjacent, like full-on publicly take credit for for something that I did. And it wasn't like I did it directionally, it was something I felt very proud of because it was self-initiated. And you know, and I got I got past it, but I remember in that moment just it's probably about being about as like seethingly mad as I ever got in in corporate life because of the because of what it meant, right? It's you know, it kind of highlights the world is not fair, fine, blah, I get it. But it also was a good reminder about we, you know, if you're proud of something, make sure people hear about it, right? Don't don't trust that your good work will just will just get noticed because someone else might just take it. And and and you know, I've I've I've been very lucky in my career to mostly have the bosses that were good examples for me to follow, for sure, like everyone else. I've had a few bosses that that the way they taught me was how not to be. But for the most part, I I've been blessed with the ones that were better about giving giving credit than taking. But I also, even if I didn't work for them, I also saw others that I felt like I would just never want to work for that person because of how they are, how they treat their team, how they like you said, this notion of I
Communicating Hard Calls With Empathy
SPEAKER_01can do no wrong. Geez, who wants to work for that person anyway? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Now, how can leaders communicate decisions just in a way that builds momentum?
SPEAKER_01I think one one way to particularly if you're if a leader is speaking to the organization, especially if it's the organization where let's say there's they're gonna feel the impact of a change, it's it's be very clear. Here's what's coming, here's why it's coming, here's what we can expect from it. Whether, whether any of those things are kind of positive or the perception of them as positive or negative, I think it it helps so much for the leader to get out of front to say, here's what it is, here's what we know, allow some of that that pressure to get to get released. Because if if you just hit them with we're working on this and you and you don't show them that we understand that this is going to be some pain, we understand maybe this is just gonna be full-on negative, maybe it's a budget reduction and everyone just gonna have to do the exact same amount of work, but there'll be less of you, you know, let's make sure that that we're we're not shying away from from the facts that we know and the impacts, the human impacts that will occur. I I think when when we start with that, that it helps to ground the conversation, it helps to link the leader with the team in a way that that they will believe that the leader is going to be here for them, that they understand what's coming and that there's going to be some degree of of understanding when when or if the anticipated kind of negativity uh negative outcome comes along, that they're gonna be there, they're gonna be there with us. I think the and if it's and if it's budget and heads and and reductions, which is which is no fun, right? No fun for anyone ever. And and having been in tech for so much of my career, I've I've lived that more than I would ever care to. But the other side of this is is be very human and empathetic. I think for some of these conversations, some of these, some of these changes, it's not about what we're saying or even when we're saying it, it's about how how we're saying it. And we the one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was some of those conversations. Just just speak as if you were the the the audience. Speak to the way you would want to be. You'd want to, you would personally want to receive that information. That goes a huge long way. Like if you're really putting yourself in their shoes, then it softens the language a little bit, it empathizes a little bit. Doesn't change the the doesn't change the message in the end, doesn't change the business impact, doesn't change the necessity, the urgency or the the pain that's gonna come along with it. But it but you're you're you're kind of creating this vulnerability that you understand with what's going on and and also accept like some people are gonna be happy, some people are gonna be pissed, whatever. Let let the emotions out and then move on, go to the next thing.
SPEAKER_02Now, in an in an organization, what happens culturally when the leader completely avoids ownership?
SPEAKER_01Then everyone avoids ownership. That's that's one. And and so I think a couple things, when when I think about examples that I've seen personally, the the biggest negativity is that everyone will avoid ownership. If if the leader himself or herself won't stand up and say, this is mine, I own it, then then everyone else will feel they have been given the permission to to kind of not own something as well. And one thing that happens often, maybe not a hundred percent, but often is that you start to foster some of these, uh, I've always called them like talented jerks, like the people that are pretty good at their job, but no one wants to work with them, they start to kind of sprout up because they're they're showing, oh, look, I will take ownership of this, I will own it. And and they're doing it not out of the desire to deliver results, but out of the selfish desire to, I will own this, someone will see that I own it, and then I'll get off from under this this person who does who owns nothing, and it'll just be good for my career and you know, to hell with everyone around me in the end. And so I think it's when when you have that lack of accountability, lack of ownership, it it becomes it's like you're purposely poking holes in your own ship, right? Because when when you can't own success or can't own or own failures, you're not watching the things that are going on around you. You can't be, right? You can't be if you if you don't take ownership, and then you're gonna miss little problems that become big problems, and and it's uh you know, it may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen. Eventually the whole thing will fall apart. It usually does. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now uh what's a simple uh Chris when what's a simple framework that someone can use today just to make faster, cleaner decisions.
SPEAKER_01I think one one thing that's that's always stood out to me is is uh is kind of think about uh the end and work backwards. So if we if we need to make a decision, let's think very very quickly about what's the impact. And you know, is it is it financial, is it time, is it efficiency, whatever. Let's think about the impact. Let's think very quickly about the the where will people feel it if it's if it's like that or if it's a go-to-market, whatever the change is. And and then just you like you you look at what you have in front of you, whether it's revenue or data or facts or whatever, and and lean into which is the one that we know is going to be the the best one with what we have, right? And and but I but I I think if you the reason I say start with impact is that because when you whenever we kind of we have to make a decision, we have to get in that something. Someone's gonna challenge you. Why did you do this? Why are you doing this? And and so as a leader, whenever we can start with, here's what's going to happen, then you but you take so much pressure out of the system because you're you're creating the trust, right, with with your own leadership, with those around you that, okay, uh Chris is a guy who's thought about this and we're gonna we're gonna trust him to let let's see how it plays out. Versus if you say, if they say, Why are you doing this? You say, Well, I I looked at this data and and based on what I see, like you start to kind of create this kind of like deductive model, and and it's the facts may eventually bear out, but if if if it feels like you're still thinking about the answer versus I already understood what the impact was, then you've created that trust gap right at the beginning.
SPEAKER_02I see. No, Chrisman, I'm always about habits, replacing good ones with bad ones. What's one habit that immediately strengthens uh credibility when it comes to leadership?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think again, we we we put a huge premium on on communication. And so one thing I think about is is as leaders, we're we're called upon to deliver messages, whether it's something simple or something big, and and and so the I would say if you're gonna try to change something, um, you want to start small, but lay lay good foundations. So I I think a lot about the people that we coach, and we we we start them often around what we call communication basics, but it's it's just really like fundamental. So just start with the simplest one, which is which is yourself. Like when, when do you feel the most confident? When do you feel the most you know, most well received, most well perceived? And if you just start with that and you think about, okay, I've got to deliver this message, I don't want to deliver the message, it's a crappy message. Rather than thinking about the message itself, just think about what is it that you need to to feel confident delivering it and focus on that, whether it's you need to you need to be standing or sitting or you want to be on camera or not, whatever those these things are that are going to you know help you feel confident and and most well received, start there with one small thing because it it becomes a building block for other things. And I guarantee if you focus on that even just a little bit, the message itself, which may still be a terrible message that you have to deliver, will be delivered better and we will be more well received. Confidence breeds confidence, right? So we start there, and then there's you know, there's all the other kind of steps we can layer on after that. But but just starting with understanding your own voice and just generically voice, right? But understanding your own voice, where do you feel power, where do you feel confident, where you like when when you've felt it in the past, like how are you well received and received, then do more of that. One small thing, actively do that, and then kind of build from there, and it will eventually make you the the leader that people want to listen to and trust and follow.
SPEAKER_02Now, Crispin, you're build you're
Using AI To Extend Coaching
SPEAKER_02building AI power tools. Uh I love that. Now, when when it comes to technology, I think I just mastered the abacus and the the word processor. Now, these AI power tools, you're using them in the way to extend leadership impact. Now, how does the AI enhance leadership rather than just replace it?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think you know, we're in the business of making leaders better. And, you know, we we like to talk about we want to kind of bridge potential to performance, right? We want leaders to kind of see where they are. That takes practice, that takes kind of repetitive motion, that takes, you know, the kind of you know, question and answer. How does this work? How does this work? Thinking through that. And it would be great if I could be with someone or any of my other coaches could be with someone 24 hours a day to be there to answer their questions, and we cannot, right? And so we I see AI right now as an augmentation tool for leadership, and and the specific tool I'm I'm talking about is kind of like uh it's a it's an it's an adjunct coach, right? We actually call it studio coach. And it's an AI that's been fully trained in how we do things here and our models and the the specific rules and practices that we do, so that if someone's going through our own coaching and they hit a moment where they're feeling self-doubt or they're trying to think about what's the right approach in this moment, that if it's like if we're on a weekly session and then we're now six days till the next session, they don't have to wait. They can go and talk to to the studio coach, they can type, they can talk, whatever, and and they'll get the same or very similar feedback to what they would receive from a leader leader studio coach because it's it's speaking in the way that that we're trained. And and and so for us, it's an extension, right? It extends our reach into uh individu individuals and those that have used it, and we always know which ones are really using it, but those that have used it have loved it, right? Because they they feel like it gives them much more touch and attention in between in between sessions. And and we usually know the ones that are using it because they're the ones that ask for new features, right? Because they are they're saying, Oh, it'd be great if it could do this, and you know, or the the the list is never ending of of new requests, but we we keep trying to kind of build them in. And the course the great thing these days is that even though I was in technology for a long time, I'm non-technical. And we can the tools themselves can be learned, the tools themselves can help you, like they can help you build the the tool, right? So it's so long as you're patient, because I think as good as AI is today, it still frustrates the absolute hell out of me on a weekly basis by giving me some answer or following going in some route that I was not expecting it to. So you have a little patience. Then I think uh most of us can can build some of these things to kind of help ourselves along the way.
SPEAKER_02So then most leaders, when they think about the AI when it comes to decision making. See it as a tool. It's not necessarily a crux. It's not gonna be making the decision. This is just something to add into your toolbox, making your life should be your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it should be. We should see it as augmenting, not replacing decisions.
SPEAKER_02Oh, because I've Christman, you're gonna laugh. I've I've seen people use AI. It's like, well, hey, you know what? It's AI. I'm gonna type something in the chat GPT or whichever. There's multiple platforms and see what decision it tells me I should do.
SPEAKER_01And it's like, well, I don't think it should work that way, but yeah, and so the the tools that are out there are each of them can do things that are truly amazing. And and for less about let's say leadership decision, but about for like repetitive tasks, yeah, it's great. Like it can do a lot of things in a lot of ways that are better than not just better than than maybe a person could do it, but but kind of tasks that people don't want to do, right? So let's let's let them handle those things. But but for everyone that's you know that's saying, oh, I'm just gonna trust Jim and I or Claude or Chat GPT or whatever to kind of answer these things for us, you know, I would I would challenge them to challenge the tool a little bit and and kind of push the boundaries and see see what it comes back so that you can begin to see that some of these tools are still learning, some of them kind of really go off on on tangents. And you know, the the thing that frustrates me the most because I do not love the kind of the graphical side of things that I sometimes have to do for the business. The thing that frustrates me is if I ever I'm trying to create an image that has texts, oh my gosh, it's like it's a comedy of errors, and I have not found the tool that's good that I've used all of them and they all are good once or twice, and then they start creating words or misspelling words, and when you point it out, they just repeat the same, and then it's just eventually I'm I'm ready to just throw the laptop in the in the river and and walk away. So and then you're like, Oh, I'll do it myself. I know exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. You know, I I've I you know the the first if it gets it right the first time, it's awesome, and you're thinking this is the best thing ever. But if it's not quite right, uh for whatever reason, the way these models work and think, when we begin to ask it to tweak or I could do that, but add this to it, it's the the logic falls apart because as much as as we like to to think that today these machines are thinking like us, they aren't. They're still following just models, right? And and so they they what seems intuitive to us is not yet maybe tomorrow, but it's not yet fully thought out and intuitive by most of the tools out there.
SPEAKER_02No, of course, but how does serving on the make a wish uh governing board influence your leadership philosophy?
SPEAKER_01The what was amazing, so I had this I had the I did a three-year stint on the board at Make a Wish. And uh, you know, it it when it when the opportunity came to me, because I had a colleague of mine who was who was rolling off the board, and so we knew there was going to be a seat opening, when it came to me, for me originally I thought it this would be just just an opportunity to kind of do something good, and and obviously there I was hoping there'd be some kind of of networking benefit to me, right? And and all this. I was I was hoping that I was my my motivations were more selfless than selfish. But when when you get into it and you see you see the work
Service, Perspective, And The Next Bet
SPEAKER_01and you see how how well, and there's a lot of nonprofits out there that maybe aren't running smoothly, but that one, Mega Wish of Central South Texas, is is great, right? And you you start to work with the families and you you see these things. For me, what what changed for me was I obviously I stopped caring at all about any potential networking thing because the work is so important and and enabling when you're on the governing board, you're really about enabling the people who are doing the work. So so the work is important, the impact is is not about dollars and cents or you know, revenue, it's it's real and it's human and it's personal. And and so for me, I think it was perspective, right? The you know, how does how did it shape me? Is it is it reminds us, reminded me, that there are a lot of great things in this world, but life is fleeting. And as much as I would love to chart out every decision I could make for the next five years to have hypergrowth, it's also very important to not forget about today. And and you know, just on a very, very human level, just hug the ones you love because uh it's uh the the families that that uh are recipients of of wishes from mega wish, you know, those are those are really tough situations often. And and you know, I couldn't imagine my kids being in in a situation where that's you know, where you you're you're you're just looking for someone to help you have a nice day or a nice week or a nice vacation so that you can you can live a little bit normal, a little more normal, more normal life. The the other thing I would just say is that the one thing that I that I absolutely will hold dear for the rest of my life about my experience with Make of Witch is is it restores my faith in humanity because often there are people that we see uh famous people and and not, and we we know they're famous, but they're probably not great people. But every one smile you you see someone who who is famous, and it turns out they're also a great human. And uh in and and for no for no benefit, right? They don't make it public, they don't show it, you just happen to see what they did for a little girl. And it's the kind of thing that's like I said, just restores faith in humanity. And so it it's a I think stay grounded, stay present, you know, remember that people are dealing with things that we can't always see. And and I think that, you know, coming back to leadership, I think it's it just helps me kind of maintain strong empathetic links, right? Because you for some of those families, you would never know how if you were just talking to them from the outside, you would never know how how tough things really were. So I think it was uh it was a great experience. I would I wouldn't trade trade those three years for anything.
SPEAKER_02Now, for the listeners out there, the entrepreneurs, the leaders listening right now, what's the decision that they're probably avoiding?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh you know, one just back to because we've been talking about AI. Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of indecision right now on on AI. Is now the right time to use it? No, no, is now the right time to use it, or is no which you know, or which tool to use. And and I think that the the revolution that we're a part of right now that's that is that's here, right? That we're AI is changing. I think this is not about wait and see. This is and I and I I I see this with you know kind of peer entrepreneurs. It's it's not about choosing the right tool. Maybe you make a few bets, but you need to get in because if you aren't, your competitors are. And and it's not about trying to be like have some sort of AI badging or anything like that. It's it's you it creates scale. I I for sure I would need more people to run the business if I didn't have AI, you know, running core aspects of it. And and so I think get off it's it's a fish or cut bait thing right now. It's time to it's time to to involve yourself. Doesn't have to be big, but you you need to get involved with with AI in one way or another, so that when it becomes so pervasive and it begins to kind of obviate the need for other software that you are using today, that you're not left behind. And I think that's the if if I had a fear that as an entrepreneur that I think I I would see in others, it's that you know, this this fear of you're not you're not capitalizing on what could be in front of you. So just just jump in. You don't have to go in the deep end, but get in the water and and start to play with it.
SPEAKER_02And Crispin, if someone wants just to step into true ownership this year, like the present, like right now, not 2027, the not too distant future, what's the very visible first action, the very first step they should take right now?
SPEAKER_01I think so. This is gonna sound stupid, but but know what it is you want to do. Right? I I think that's a believe it or not, most people don't. Yeah, and you know, so leadership studio was kind of born, you know, maybe not quite two years ago, and it was something that like coaching and and developing leaders, this was always a passion of mine for for many, many years, but but embarking on my own. I I had an inflection point in my career, and it was I knew this is what I wanted to do, wasn't really sure how to do it, wasn't sure how to differentiate myself in a very crowded marketplace, but I knew the path, how and and like what I was gonna do that would be the way I do it. And it was just just step, just take that step. But you but you've got to know what you want to do. If it's if it's oh, I want to start a business, I think you're not ready. Right? I think it's you should know what you want to do. You and and and have some idea of what does success look like. I think that was, you know, that was like in in corporate America, especially with transformation, that was something that used to drive me nuts. Like we we wanna, oh, we're gonna invest $10 million in doing this. And I'd say, yeah, but how do we know we won? And if we couldn't get a good answer, geez, why are we investing this money? Surely we could do something better with this. So, you know, know what your idea is and know what success looks like, so that you can keep yourself pointed in the right direction.
SPEAKER_02Amen. Leadership. It's not about being right, it's about being right. Yep. Crispin, how do they get involved in the leadership studio? How do they find you? How do they hire you? How do they become now? Do you do one-on-ones group? How does this all work out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we we do we do one-on-one coaching. We also do a group or what we call it cohort coaching, where we're it's uh it's a group of a group of individuals. We can uh would say a lot of what we do is virtual, but we're if there's a especially if it's a group, if there's a reason to do this in person, we can talk about how to do that in person and and how to maximize, like really maximize the time and investment uh to make that make that work. But you know, I think the the best ways are you know, you can you can go to our website, which is leadership dash studio.com. You can find me or find the company on on LinkedIn or just shoot me a mail at Crispin at leadership dash studio.com. I think that's the that's the simplest way. I you know, we we our
Define Success Then Take Action
SPEAKER_01sweet spot we have a like in terms of is is usually leaders that have just been just been or just about to be promoted to kind of like that next level and and are you know trying to make sure they're they're kind of maximizing the the opportunity. But the other thing I would say is that leadership is not about title, right? So if if you if you have to deliver a message, if you're the even if you're just the the head of a family and you're trying to think about how can I how can I lead better, communicate better, all that, I think it's still a good, it's still a good conversation to have. And and I think it's the you know, I I get asked this question sometimes is you know, what's the how do you know you have the right person that that's going to be successful when they're when they're working with you on in the leadership studio? And I said that it starts with when they come to me and say, I need help, that's a that door is wide open. Like when they when they acknowledge that they want to be better, and especially if they can articulate what they want to be better at, then you know, we're we're a lot further down the road with them than than with others. Because if someone just comes to me and says, I want to be a better leader, okay, great. But tell me, tell me about yourself. Tell me where where do you feel that you're strong today? Where do you struggle today? And if they can't answer the struggle question, that's it means that the coaching is gonna be it's gonna start slower for sure, because we have we have to figure out what we can improve.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know what? Sometimes there's nothing wrong with with being slow. Slow and steady wins the race. Oh, yeah. As long as you get there. Yeah, I can just be better today than you were yesterday. It's the process that that that's the process I live every single day. I just want to be a better version of who I was tomorrow than who I who I was today. Absolutely.
How To Work With Leadership Studio
SPEAKER_02Crispin, thank you, man. Thank you for your time, thank you for the hour, thank you for being in service because to me, you are the definition of being in service, and you know, best of luck with everything. And you know, when you keep on expanding, because you blow out and you create a world full of leaders, and you're gonna have studio versions throughout the country, and you this major expansion, you have an open invite to be my guest, brother.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. That's right. I mean, this was this was great. Thank you for having me. No problem, brother. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.