What If It Did Work?
What If It Did Work?
Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
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If you’ve ever thought, “I know what to do, so why can’t I do it,” this conversation hits the nerve and gives you a way out. We sit down with Dr. John Oberg, a human behavior strategist and healthcare innovator whose work targets one of the biggest problems in modern health: chronic metabolic disease and type 2 diabetes. Along the way, John shares a near-death car crash story that reshaped how he sees faith, relationships, and service, and why that personal turning point connects directly to how people change when the stakes are real.
We get concrete about what actually moves the needle: how hemoglobin A1C works, why tiny sustainable swaps can drive major blood sugar improvement, and why most “go hard on Monday” plans collapse under stress. John breaks down his core framework: focus on what you control (your thoughts and your actions), build small habits you can repeat, and create the right support system so your environment stops fighting you. We also talk GLP-1 medications, insulin, and modern telemedicine, not as magic fixes, but as tools that can help patients stabilize, lower treatment burden, and eventually reduce dependence on medication with food-as-medicine strategies.
You’ll also hear practical guidance you can use today: “move right” by shifting from processed food toward whole food, “move more” with 10-minute blocks of intentional walking, and stop grazing all day so your body gets clear fed and fasting periods. We even share a blunt, compassionate patient story framed as Door A, Door B, or Door C that shows what non-judgmental care really looks like when someone feels stuck.
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Welcome And Why John Matters
SPEAKER_00I've never done one back. My whole life I've been holding back every time I don't fucking do for the stall. I hear a point.
SPEAKER_01All right, everybody, another day, another dollar, another one of my favorite episodes of my favorite podcast because it's my own podcast. I'm biased. Season five, got with me, Dr. John Oberg, human behavior strategist, healthcare innovator on a mission to transform the lives of one billion people. Sort of like McDonald's, remember, we were so old, it was in the millions, and then they went to the billions served. People have a funny story there.
SPEAKER_03Funny story about that. We'll get into it.
SPEAKER_01Good, good. I'm glad you see things just happened with chronic disease. The CEO for Synia Health, John is leading a groundbreaking approach to reversing type 2 diabetes with a 98% success rate by combining AI, personalized care, and behavior science. His work empowers patients to reduce dependence on medication. Uh-oh. Often using food as medicine. Uh-oh. Dude, you're gonna get big pharma after you and take the take back control of their health. John's expertise runs deep. He scaled businesses from 30 million to 300 million by his Fortune 500 companies and Uncle Sam's U.S. military. Served on the boards of major healthcare and educational organizations across all his work, whether in healthcare, leadership, or tech. Core insight is the same. Lasting transformation starts by understanding and shifting human behavior. Uh surviving and near-death experience that reshaped his worldview. John shares stories of breakthrough and resilience on his podcast, Tales of Abundance.
The Car Crash That Changed Everything
SPEAKER_01Near death experience, man. I I gotta ask. Have you ever read Lee's uh least robot? I think that he's uh the case for heaven or case for Jesus.
SPEAKER_03No, but he will yeah, there's the case for Christ, which is one of the ones there's cross-examined.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he has like a million forensic scientists, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh huh. Yeah, and I've not read it, uh, I know about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but he he he was like for the chicken soup of the soul, Jack Hainfield, but he has like 50. That's why I said I don't know which one because he's got like a million, a case of something. Now, I I know he talks about near-death experiences. I don't think he had one, but he had a documentary. Now, your near-death experience, because I've I've had people what was there like a shining light? Was there like Saint Peter or people that you knew or anything like right there, out-of-body experience?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a little different for me. And it's it's a well-publicized story. You can find it online. There's like a little seven-minute vignette about what happened, but I got into a car accident where a guy spun out in front of me, and I tried to avoid hitting him in the driver's side door, and I went down an embankment and basically was forced off of a 50-foot cliff. And so my car went over the cliff. And when I before it went over the cliff, but you know, uh, I knew I was going over. I hadn't prayed in 20 something years, and I basically said, Hey, here's the deal. You you let me survive this and raise my kids. Because my dad died when I was 11. I was like, Hey, it's like, if you'll let me raise my kids, I'll come find you. Because I was a total agnostic at the time. And so there's a whole story about my faith conversion around like a 50-foot, you know, drop over a cliff where I walked away from the car wreck with not a scratch on me. And uh the guy that pulled me out was an off-duty EMT who later told me he's like, you should be dead. Like I watched your car come over that cliff, like from the from the down below. I have no idea how you walked away.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's wild. Uh I I have not me, but I was raised Roman Catholic, and you know, you get to well, people that are highly educated must become atheists or agnostic. And it's always like when your prayers are not answered, either like that chick leaves you, or and oh my gosh, I prayed, there is no God.
Miracles, Faith, And Mental Health
SPEAKER_01So I was like agnostic, and it was like my firstborn had they thought quotation of the heart, and she was an ICU and they're talking about open heart surgery. The next day, pick a dentist, or not a dentist, but pick you know, a surgeon, and I'm like there, like bawling. And uh a coworker was also a pastor, and he said, What we're gonna do is we're gonna pray for your daughter, but I want you to pray all night. I'm like, Man, I haven't done C C D, I haven't, you know, but whatever. You know, I'm like, oh God, please, please just and then the very next day they couldn't find anything wrong with her. And her and my ex-wife were they they left the hospital the very next day, and it was like a miracle. And I'm like, if that's not, you know, an act of faith right there, and you know, yeah, and that's that's what got me into believing again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've got I've got I've got a ton of stories in my life like that. And you know, I don't it yeah, yeah, it's it's a little difficult to talk about on you know in a brand new podcast with lots of listeners. I don't know, because I definitely don't think that pushing it down somebody's throat is talk about it, but but I think it's fun, you know, it's it's fun to check out like you know, do I have more stories than that for me personally? I do, but I have a lot of people who don't share the same beliefs with me and they want to have these conversations with me about like how did I get there and you know how how do you go from being an agnostic for decades into like a really devoted believer? And so they're fun stories to tell. But you know, I think it's um you know, but but also I enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01You know, being having faith, and I I tell this to people. One one of the things though that I've I've noticed about Christians is you know, all the million denominations that we have that that we always we're always attacking, like you know, my pastor is the right pastor, you're not Roman Catholics aren't Christian, the Baptists are eating, you know, but no other religion, you know, they're they embrace it, like Jews all are it's not like well that guy's Orthodox, screw him. That guy doesn't go to the right temple, but we're just like that. To me, my my faith, my belief is just have uh a belief in something. I I don't care if you believe in Mohammed, I don't care if you you believe in Moses, I don't care if you're waiting for the savior, I don't care if you know you pray to 20 gods, just have something in you because that will you'll help that'll help you find success because it's it's easier just to give up, man, on anything if you're if you're like if this is it, if this is as good as it gets.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, no, I yeah, and I feel I feel pretty good for me about my you know a true Christian, theologically sound belief, and you know, working in the world of psychology and therapy. It's like I also know that if people can believe in something bigger than themselves, there's some real, you know, mental health benefits to seeing things bigger than yourselves in the world. And so yeah, yeah. I mean, remember McDonald's, you talked about McDonald's earlier. Here's a funny story. My first business plan where I wrote down, I want to change a billion lives for the better, was in 1995, but that wasn't in my period of agnosticism. I didn't actually change my beliefs until 2007, and really it didn't become clear to me why I had even written down that thing in 1995 until probably 2020. So here I am writing things down in 1995 that only truly become clear to me 25 years later.
SPEAKER_02Crazy. I mean, it's just fun.
SPEAKER_01It it is, man. It it is, but it it it also though you and I are here right now based on my personal belief, uh everything that's ever happened, uh the inconsequential, the consequential, the amazing. You know, that's why when people what would you change in your life? I I can't change anything. Uh that was brought up to me. It was like uh just got divorced, it was like uh blind date, and the woman kept on yammering about that. Like, what would I change in my life? And she knew I I was into personal business development before I wrote any of the books or the podcast, and I kept on saying I wouldn't change a thing. And and get she was friends with one of my friends, he's like, Oh, he was such such a jerk, I didn't like him. And you know, I try to explain to her, you know, if I changed something stupid, even something, you know, I might never have had my two daughters because that's how life is, you know, even the butterfly effect, yeah. The butterfly effect. I mean, there's some truth. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's true.
Regret, The Butterfly Effect, And Growth
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and yeah, and I think it's one thing to kind of go back and say, what did I learn? And and and what how do I grow going forward? Like, I've if I paid some type of like emotional tuition, or you know, if you're working out and you pay physical tuition, like I think I think there's something to the fact that we want to grow forward and and and feed forward into the rest of our lives. And so I think it's smart to learn from what we've done, but I agree, like I I'm generally happy with my life, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to give up any of the people in my life or the the circumstances where I am, even though I couldn't have planned this in the best of circumstances where I am today. Like I I got where I am, you know, I don't not entirely by accident, but certainly not of my own planning.
SPEAKER_01Also, though, I mean we don't have a flux capacitor anyways, we're a DeLorean. So what's the point in harping over people that that that's what to me, that's what's wrong with a lot of people what when it comes to like growth, they're stuck because they keep on looking backwards, man. They're you know, yeah, it's one thing you you know, you you can walk on fire or do whatever, whatever at any conference, but overall, it if if you're still looking, if you're still thinking about well, I did this or I did that, I I should have invested in Apple when it was twenty dollars or ten dollars, you didn't move on. But everybody always, oh, I I went broke. I remember I remember like you hear this story. I remember when we had so much money. Well, you don't know. Why don't you work, once you work to win it back?
SPEAKER_03So without you know, yeah, we talk to people and kind of we we take all of that and boil it down to really simple terms like what do you control and what don't
The Two Things You Control
SPEAKER_03you control? And you can choose to focus your energy on the things you can control, and you can choose to focus things on you know, energy on things you don't control. And at the end of the day, as humans, we only control two things, whether we like it or not. And so once you accept that you only control two things, life becomes a lot simpler in a good way, you know, and once you let go of the fact that you don't control the rest of it, and that's just like there is no changing data. That's not a debate. There's nothing, no, nobody can be right and say we control three things. We control two. We get to control our thinking and we get to control our actions, and that's it. Now, those two things can lead to influence, and so we can actually control our thoughts and our actions to attempt to influence other things, but we only control our thoughts and our actions. And it's such an easier life, for me at least, my experience has been so much easier life once you recognize that's all you get. You don't spend energy, you don't waste energy on trying to control things you can't control.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's the story of everybody. Also, how can I go out because or how can I risk something if somebody might take a shot at me? I oh my gosh, how about if there's neg a negative review? How about if I open up a restaurant and and people have negative reviews and I'm like, okay, and it's it's funny because that's the way people operate. They feel by doing nothing that's a safe place because it's controllable. Now, if I do something, if I write a book and someone doesn't like it, I mean, heck, I I I wrote too, I'm sure there's plenty of people, you know. And if somebody wrote a mouse review, they buy it. You know, they buy it.
SPEAKER_03You know, there's you know, we started this by talking about kind of religious beliefs. And I think from a Christian perspective, you know, work humans are made to work, and and we can talk about that. But I think more interesting as a scientist, you know, what I look at is that humans are not designed to be in comfort all the time. And and the way that we can look at that is by looking at um stress and distress versus youth stress. And, you know, or um, you know, when you use a muscle, you grow that muscle. When you don't use a muscle, that muscle atrophies and starts to die. And so distress is what happens when we have a bad stress in our life, but youth stress is what happens when we have good stress in our life. And good stress is the type of stress you'd have, similar to building muscle in the gym by lifting weights and being sore and moving out of your comfort zone. You're actually growing and getting better and doing what your body was designed to do. But your body was designed to have good stress physically, emotionally. And that means you know, we comfort is not the goal. Comfort's a nice place to be sometimes. It's a it's a healthy and appropriate place to be sometimes, but so is having appropriate positive youth stress in your life.
Why Shortcuts Backfire In Health
SPEAKER_01So I guess when everything that you mentioned right there, but what about the shot? Uh Dr. John, why can't I just get a shot of semi-glutide and just uh you know lose weight? You know, the the shortcut approach, which is, you know, I know you talk about in the intro when I I read that uh popping pills or or doing stuff uh to find a uh a shortcut in general. What you said uh it requires mind uh it requires mind, body, and spirit. Uh that's why there's success. Uh because man, when you go to the gym, uh one you have to put the ego. Imagine you know, you're 30, 40 pounds overweight, you just have to go with blinders. You're you're the the spirit is you have to push yourself. The the body is, you know, eventually, yes, you have to have that belief that if I keep on doing doing this on a consistent basis, well, uh you're gaining success, you're gaining muscle, you're going past your comfort zone. When people look for shortcuts, especially in health, it always goes back. How many people? I'm I'm sure a lot the percentage is high, they get their their stomach stapled. We're not even talking about the shot or the sleeve, yeah, bariatric surgery, sure. Yeah, yeah. Their mind, it's like when you give uh you know, you win the lottery, all those people go broke because they didn't have the mind, body, and spirit, they didn't work on at it at a consistent basis.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think there's a couple I think you have to like so the way that we look at it is there's you you want to look at does someone have the right skill set? Do they have the right belief system? Do they have the right work ethic? And do they have the right prioritization of resources? And when you look at all those things, you can start to figure out like how to help somebody move forward. We have a couple of problems. Like I was he'll tell you the story of irony. So I'm in the middle of my doctorate, so getting my doctorate at you know, at USC, and I'm trying to reverse type two diabetes. That's what the whole doctorate's about human behavior change, rewriting medical protocols, using all the right devices and medicines and doing all the research clinically. And two things happen. One, one of my family members is tested and has type two diabetes while I'm getting a doctorate about how to fight this. And then I look in the mirror and I'm 50 pounds overweight. Like I played sports all the way through college. Like I know how to work out, I know all the right answers. I'm most people who know me would say I'm fairly disciplined and pretty, you know, self-disciplined, and I'm 50 pounds overweight. And so, like I had to then take my own medicine, so to speak, right? And I had to go follow all the protocols that I was asking the patients in our medical practice to go through. And I lost the 50 pounds by following our protocols, but but it came down to a number of things. Like, people try to change too many things too big all at once. And they try to change things, they're not really ready to change. And so our encouragement to people, believe it or not, is don't change as much as you think you need to. Just change the small things that you can sustain and then build those small changes one on the other, one on the other, one on the other. And pretty soon a lot of little changes are really big changes. But do the things that are small and sustainable. I can't tell you the number of times I've had a conversation with someone who said, Oh, yeah, I used to do that. It worked so well. Like, yeah, it works so well, you stop doing it.
SPEAKER_01Well, it it if you think what what went through my mind when you said small, gradual changes is that person that goes to like the personal development, and you know, he's 40, 50 pounds overweight, been eating the $70 pizzas like twice a week, drinks like the six-pack of coke every day, and all of a sudden he busts through, he goes to his refrigerator, he's dumping all the coke, he's dumping everything, he's like go go going cold turkey. He's like, I'm not gonna order the two pizzas a week, I'm gonna eat clean, I'm gonna do this. I haven't worked out in 20 years, I'm gonna join two member gym memberships. And it's like, man, that's not sustainable, brother.
SPEAKER_03And it's yeah, yeah, you're right.
Real Diabetes Reversal By Small Steps
SPEAKER_03So let me let me give you some numbers here. So our first pilot study, where so when I went back to get my doctorate, I said, we're gonna solve this type 2 diabetes problem. And people chuckled. They're like, huh, okay, 60, 70 years, the whole country's been trying to solve this problem. Like, good luck, whatever. We took 50 patients in rural Louisiana, uh, low income, low access to care. Uh, we measure diabetes with A1C. Hemoglobin A1C is how you measure the blood sugar in your blood for the last 90 days, generally speaking. And if you're above 6.5%, you got diabetes. So we found people that were really sick, 9.6%. And usually, if you can drop that percentage by one percentage point in a year, but with a drug, you've got a billion-dollar drug. Like that's a really good drug. So we took these people and we dropped their hemoglobin A1C by 3.2% in 12 weeks. So not 1% in a year, 3.2% in 12 weeks. And then we kept them there for the next two years. And then recently we did another study where we dropped people's A1C from 11 into the sevens in 90 days, and we got them off of insulin within six months. But we didn't do that by have by cleaning out their fridge and changing their entire lot. What we did is we started really small. Like we had one patient who's like, I eat ice cream and I drink chocolate milk, I'm not gonna change. We said, No problem, can we change the flavor of ice cream? Sure. And within one week, we dropped their fasting blood glucose by 100 points. Like just tiny little changes. One person we said, can we just help you change the brand of your coffee creamer? Massive change. Can we just make sure you're taking the right medicines? And when you get someone taking the right medicines, and in some cases, maybe counterintuitively, taking more medicines for a time, you get them to be really healthy over a period of time. And then all of a sudden, you start getting them to take less medicine because they have made enough changes with their diet, with their exercise, that, or just the consistency of what they're doing, that and they let their body rest appropriately, they can start taking less medicine. And in some cases, we can get people off the medicines entirely.
SPEAKER_01But people are are so addicted. But also big big pharma, think about it. I mean, I've I've gone up and down in weight because I I'm like you. Well, you know, the 50-pound guy. I'm always like the guy that you know, I'll let myself go. And I I still go, I I I weigh more, but I can lift more. So it's actually helping me, you know, because you lie to yourself. You're the we all lie to ourselves on on stupid stuff like that. And hey, I know how to lose the weight. So why not why don't you just, you know, the real answer is just be sustainable, don't, you know, go up and down.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, it's yeah, it's more, it's more than just sustainable. And that's where we had to kind of change the protocols. So sustainability is a part of it. Small changes, that's a part of
Community, Norms, And Expert Guidance
SPEAKER_03it. Another really important part of it is changing the community and the norms in your community. So I'm a social worker, right? So we look at like what are the micro level changes where you control those things individually? What are the community influences you have with your friends? And then what are like the policy level changes? And we tell our patients like there may be some policies in our country and our world that work against you. Doesn't stop you from being healthier. We can build small communities that grow into larger communities, and you get those people around you, they include professional care providers, your doctors, social workers, whatever. Then you've got your friends and your family. And when you get those people working in the same direction, it becomes easier to sustain the good habits.
SPEAKER_01No, it's just I mean, it's common sense and uh we lack it in society, which makes it not so common. Yeah, exactly. Like we all I mean, people know the answers, they really do. on on how to live. Yeah, agree. But but we lie to ourselves. Well I'll be like John I'm waiting for the the new diet to come out. I'm I'm I'm at Barnes and Noble waiting and waiting, waiting in vain. Like I'm Bob Marley. Because you know there's people that oh I'll I'll jump on the next fat or you know waiting for like the answer which you know it it's common sense but they don't want you know it's easier to be like we have all the tools we have all the knowledge I can look you up but before growing up you know we're about to I'm I'm a well we're we're playing the back nine so I had a you know back then you had the Dewey decimal system microfish it was hard to get information maybe you ordered the encyclopedia you know it was already outdated by the time because you know they they give you the X they don't give you all you know it's outdated information and personal development if you're suicidal you could get like personal power or whatever from Anthony Robbins at 2 a.m maybe 14 days later hold hold on for but now you have all the information i can I can look you up yeah I I I there's so much there's so much factual stuff out there there's Google there's YouTube on how to how to be so you gotta ask why why do you so do you know why it's not working and do I know why it's not working because I do I can tell you I can tell you why I I want I want the answer I I want nirvana I I want to know why because you know I I still harp at the fact that you know we could do ai a a 20 page term paper now in in 10 seconds and I had to do a whole semester.
SPEAKER_03We all know what to do we know why to do it we don't know how to do it and and the problem is that how you do it is different than how I do it. And so if you can't get expert help and by expert help I mean someone who's professionally trained to teach you what you need that's different than what I need. And that means really helping at the beginning right and and it takes our patients for example a lot less interaction with us six months and a year later but those first you know 30 60 90 days we're talking a lot to help figure out like what's going on and how to help fix that. And again when people want to make big changes we really encourage them not to do that. Like they will in some cases but we really try to make it smaller smaller smaller smaller smaller so it's lifetime sustainable well also too when you do I mean not only is it not sustainable but it's like when they they tell you about you know the guy that eats clean your your willpower is drained you know how he eats clean from like 5 a.m when he goes to the gym all the way he gets home from work he's still doing decent then nine o'clock happens he's my his willpower his reserve's over he goes to the refrigebuds change over time like there was a time where I used to do that and then I would have sugar and then it was like a you'd have to restart every 12 hours or every 14 hours. But when you do it the way that we do it like there are things now that I used to love a year ago I literally cannot stand them because they taste so sweet that it's no longer enjoyable. And the difference is now when I eat like raspberries raspberries taste infinitely better than they used to three years ago because my taste buds have changed. But if I tried to make that change on day one when I'm 50 pounds overweight like forget that it never would have worked. And we don't want people to jump from here to there that quickly it may take a year or two to get someone all the way through that process and they have to do it for their reasons not for my reasons. And so they don't have their reasons we're going to keep looking for the changes they want to make that they're ready to make for their reasons not for my reasons. No one cares about my reasons except for me.
SPEAKER_01Exactly now it's it's tough it it's tough keeping the weight off i i'm I'm speaking I'm not speaking for me metaphorically I'm talking to to me it's easy uh you know I I I know the answers so I've been there I've done that I I've never been type two I've been borderline and and you know that's that's close that that and and that's that's stupid that's like the person that's like oh I drive fine on two beers because it's like why why why are you gonna put yourself in that predicament what what's just one easy thing that someone can do because to me the hardest because before I used to drink like six Cokes a day I I was really it it it wasn't until the birth of my first child that I I realized I I started running marathons the whole nine yards I I wanted I wanted them to see an act active lifestyle too and it it was tough.
Move Right With Food Choices
SPEAKER_03And you're right if I drink a coke now it it tastes especially if it's fountain it tastes flat it's because yeah I I don't yeah I don't drink coke anymore but what's just just a simple thing that can get everybody because man morbid obesity I'm not talking about obese I'm talking about it's it's like and we've had shows like the biggest loser my 600 pound whatever all that we see all you know all the doctors talking about it but but what's just something simple that we can do like like a hat like an easy habit that we our yeah our philosophy you know is get the medicine right because a lot of people um their medicine isn't serving them quite as well as they could so work with your provider to get the medicine right and then we say move right move to the more move move more and so move to the right for us means move away from processed food toward whole food right so don't don't have you know the uh apple juice have the apple right so just move away from things that are processed and put in plastic to things that are whole as as well as you can possibly get them and that means like instead of having potato chips have a potato right and but we encourage people like if you're at a steakhouse to have steak have the steak but if you're not there for the steak better to have the chicken or the fish right and so it's just it's and just every time you're faced with a choice try to choose something a little more to the right so processed food on the left whole food on the right just try to make a choice that's a little bit more to the now that doesn't mean kale and carrots every day it just means when you're faced yes I'm not I'm not gonna do that. So but just try to move to the right when you have a choice. Like what can you do to move to the right a little bit and then don't eat white like so rice not great right so anything that's white or fully processed like those are just so that's the food stuff. And
Ten Minutes Of Movement That Works
SPEAKER_03then for the movement move 10 minutes at a time I'm not talking about exercise I'm not talking about like getting ripped. I'm saying if you can just walk intentionally for 10 not high intensity just walk for 10 minutes at a time there's things happening at the cellular level in your body that change the way your metabolism works. And so if you can move 10 minutes at a time for 150 minutes a week so 30 minutes a day five days a week you I'm not talking about 10,000 steps, not talking about resistance training just get 150 minutes of movement in a week those two things change a lot. Now there are longevity people and health span people that may be listening and they'll be like oh but you have to do this and that and this and they're not wrong. Those are all great things but those are further along the path for most people for most people just move to the right 150 minutes of movement and you're gonna be in much better condition than you were with and now you of course there are things you can do to be more fit of course there's things you can do to be more healthy but just get started with those things. That's what I would say.
Steps, Fasting, And Why Grazing Fails
SPEAKER_01Now John the 10,000 steps that was all the self-fit bits weren't it because I mean when you and I were growing up nobody ever said hey man you need to do 10 000 if you don't walk 10 000 steps you're not going to hit that goal.
SPEAKER_03Some new science just came out this week that said the real number is probably more like 7,000 steps by the way and so now there's there's I can't remember the exact numbers I just read the study a couple maybe a week ago and it it there was some real reduction of heart disease some real health impact for 7,000 steps a day and there's actually some impact um that looked correlated to improving your odds with type 2 diabetes as well. So um now our in our medical practice we would say steps don't really count because you could move five steps at a time and you're not moving 10 minutes at a time and that doesn't impact your cellular metabolism in the way that your body needs it to I think there are some benefits to 7,000 steps. I think it's probably a correlation I don't know that we have that science yet I think what's really happening is people move are moving 10 minutes or more at a time and they're impacting their total body glucose in a better way. And that's really the important thing from our perspective scientifically so if you talk to my medical doctor partner talk to me and that that's really what we're headed toward is like how do you actually control what's happening so that your cells can live the way they need to live in the most healthy way. Grazing is not a good thing for humans. We're not we're not meant to graze so also the misconception I think it's what like eat every two hours to keep the furnace burning and look I I'm there's no one size fits all approach like there may be some people where that has to work and there are people where intermittent fasting is great for them. There are people where ketosis works really great like so everybody can find a thing but generally for cellular metabolism you need to have periods of being fed and you need to have periods of fasting because your body goes into two different states. There's like a like a I guess you know a an insulin dominant state and an insulin non-dominant state inside your bloodstream and your body reacts different ways in terms of what your liver's doing and how it's telling the rest of the body to work and what your pancreas is doing. And so at the end of the day what it comes down to for most people move 10 minutes at a time if you can do it after eating especially thumbs up that's awesome do that 150 minutes a week and then just eat more whole food.
SPEAKER_01Well that's tough in your your state John I mean not only about processed food but you have what a burger and then you have in and out in Texas and you have good bar yeah p.
SPEAKER_03Yeah and by the way I eat p terries like I eat Chick-fil-A occasionally like I I don't I enjoy those things sometimes so if someone's like man that could never do like you don't have to do it all the time you just can't eat poorly all the time. Like you gotta you know you can't even work if you eat processed foods like that there you can't work out or you can't even walk if you and I ate Lay's a bag of Lays every day but we decided to walk 1500 steps I just threw that number and and we worked out we would literally still be at a surplus probably caloric wise and it would show yeah and it's not just it's not just even calories matter but good calories type of calories matter a ton and and you you joked about smagglutide perzepatide dualtide like the all these drugs like I we use these drugs for our patients.
Using GLP-1s Without Avoiding Change
SPEAKER_03It's a good thing to have GLP1s available it's a good thing to have SGLT2s available peptides are fine but you've got to get people onto using and then off of right like like so and GLP1s are fine right so GLP1 drug is a drug that goes into your brain and tells your brain it doesn't eat as much food and helps you have less food consumption. SGLT2s are a great set of drugs that um where your kidneys are generally trying to reabsorb glucose before you urinate they're actually letting the glucose go so that it lets the glucose out of your body so there's some really amazing drugs and devices that we have available.
SPEAKER_01And you know it's like we use them for our families we use them for our patients like they're good to have to get people to a healthy state and then over time let's use food as medicine well of course and then I'm sure the the one that everybody knows but people I don't know how to go shopping at a grocery store well the outer limits are all your outsides yeah outsides in the aisles are all the process stuff at at every grocery store I don't care whether it's Alardson's Publix Kroger Schwagbins whatever safe way it's all designed the same way don't grab every impulse buy that's you know at the register because it's it's all candy and stuff even quote unquote Whole Foods they they still have your impulse stuff which is quote unquote healthier which is you know a misnomer sugar is sugar.
SPEAKER_03So but yeah no yeah I mean sugar people right people are like John I I'm I want to make the changes but because I I've heard that from I don't I don't know how to shop for groceries and it's like well I probably don't get the Pop Tarts and and you know all the stuff down the aisles it's it's like well you remember we talked about with our like we talked about an expert plan like we help our patients with meal
Meal Plans Into Shopping Carts
SPEAKER_03planning. And then not just meal planning but how do you turn a meal plan into a shopping list and then how do you turn a shopping list into a shopping cart? Like we do all that work with them. And so because people who haven't been taught how to do that like expecting them to know how to do that is such a ridiculous thing like that's like giving somebody a job not training them how to do it and expecting them to do it well. If someone's never had any type of modeling behavior or training about how to be healthy. So that's what we tell people is like the the industry the world knows what need to do the world knows why to do it. They just don't know how to do it. And so we're taking a medical practice with mental health clinicians putting it all together and we're teaching people how to be healthy.
SPEAKER_01Crazy huh well you're you're living in service man because you're giving people quality of life because the the natural approach the whole foods is way better than any medicine and and any medication out there I mean just look at the side effects every if just watch any commercial you know 80% of the commercial is you know this may cause and then you know the whole well while you know everybody's having a picnic or they're at the fair everybody's smiling that doesn't matter what med you know same concept but I mean I see it I and I I I love the simple fact that and you're like in believe in one of the states where it's like a a real problem because I know all the we're we're in yeah Texas and California is where we're licensed right now to practice medicine and mental health care.
Telemedicine Scale And Fixing The System
SPEAKER_03And then we're coming to Florida right now so we're getting licensed in Florida we're getting licensed in um 17 other states besides Florida. So we'll we'll be in 50 states pretty quick.
SPEAKER_01So the ultimate goal is to be in 50 states and now you can't be at all 50 states. So you're primarily do you do coaching like through Zoom like group coaching or is it one on one?
SPEAKER_03It's one everything's one on one uh we do have communities and and groups of people that get together uh but you know we're we're 100% telemedicine for what we do. And so and and the goal for us is not to have a billion patients inside of our medical practice like that's too big a medical practice. That'll never happen. What we really want to do is you know build our medical practice be a center for excellence for what we're doing and then teach other people how to practice this type of medicine how to really have a different approach to chronic metabolic disease. We're already seeing impacts that are positive impacts for high blood pressure for congestive heart failure uh we think we have we have some really significant evidence this is going to work with COPD and asthma uh and so there's there's a lot of things we can do to really improve people's lives and you know the the early science is pretty cool well the reversing type two diabetes is huge because I mean it one just you look better you you move better you have more confidence and you and I mean just look at all I all all the other effects of having diabetes type two diabetes yeah I just I look at if I mean losing your feet is is probably not a decent yeah you know just I I I mean I love having my feet well amputations are a real problem eyesight's a real problem but I look at a picture of the beach of like Southern California where I grew up in the 1960s and a picture of the beach today and you just see people are just less healthy and it's it's sad it makes me sad. You know I think I think we can we can do
The Real Cost Of Diabetes
SPEAKER_03better. You know we can we can give people better products better services and here's the thing the American Diabetes association said that one out of every $7 in healthcare is spent because of diabetes or its complications and let that sink in you got a healthcare spending problem one out of seven dollars being spent on this problem according to the ADA like let's just cut that number down. Let's stop spending that money and let's go let people keep some more money in their pocket. Let's reduce the cost of healthcare well not only reduce the cost of healthcare but just quality of life families be being happy I mean not not having somebody struggling I my my ex-wife's mother died of complications of type 2 diabetes and it was like holy smokes it's it's sad when you see and you can see people uh out and about and when when you see someone it it's not so much that oh my god you know that person's not attractive or whatnot but when you see people like when when they they they need they're having that you know they need to catch their breath when they're talking or they're just simply walking and it it's like they just finished doing a 10k and it's like how how can you enjoy life if if really you're in pain with the the pain of just breathing can you can you imagine like everything else when it it's you know I I know they want battery you know it's one of the some of the cool stories we have with our patients are like when one patient type 2 diabetes starts losing weight as a result of all the work they're doing and they say hey my spouse wanted to know if they could join the program like you know they they want some help too and and it's super cool when we can get people like their friends and family involved and it becomes a real point of pride like like I'm winning like like the disease isn't beating me I'm beating the disease that's fun. That's great.
SPEAKER_01Well you know because I always believe everything happens for a reason and life happens to you and not it happens for you and not to you know you became a person in service and it changed your life that that crash was meant to be because would you have really wanted to move the needle would you have really wanted to be in service would you have really wanted to see the whole world live quality yeah it wouldn't happen.
SPEAKER_03I mean I mean the reality is there's a whole series of dominoes that played out as a result of that that changed not just my outlook from a spiritual perspective but it really changed my outlook about relationships and the way that I handle business and uh there are people that worked with me before that crash that wouldn't recognize me in the workplace today. And there are people that I work with today when I tell them stories about what it was like to work with me before the crash don't believe me.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah yeah because in general we we people can do as many self-help or or they can read the books but unless they implement unless they actually do the work and want change people can say they want change but do we really change that's why when people see you now they're like did the the ghost of Christmas past present and future visit you because in general you know people like being stuck people don't like people don't like being comfort I can't well people like comfort for sure I think that people generally um I think it's easier to stay where you are than to change.
SPEAKER_03I mean
Readiness For Change Beats Willpower
SPEAKER_03that's true. But there's a whole scale we use inside of our medical practice where we measure readiness for change and we measure it across a whole lot of different facets and so you can actually measure what parts of someone's life they're ready to change and what parts they're not ready to change. And one of our To success is that we work with patients where they're ready to change and we don't try to help them where they're not ready to change. And so if you measure that and help them where they're ready, of course you're more successful. Once they're ready over here, then they start to build and they become more ready other places, right? So it seems so simple when you say it, but very few people are doing this in medicine.
SPEAKER_01Well, because it's easier to write a script, John. I I I can friggin', you know, if if I go to my uh practitioner, my my he's gonna write, he's gonna find a script to write, not because I need it, but a lot of times it's human nature, and it's because you know, his his buddy, the pharma rep, you know, his good friend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, it happens a lot. I I think that happens, but I think the vast and I work with a lot of doctors, the vast majority of doctors that I work with are exceptional servant-minded like healers. Like they really want to heal people, but sometimes the system wants them seeing 50 patients a day. And so they can't get into like all the different like like we we evaluate every single medical thing going on with a patient. We get, you know, we want to get a thousand patients, a thousand pages of patient files before their first visit, and we process all that information before we actually see the patient. So there's a tremendous amount of work we have to do ahead of time to get all this work done. The system isn't set up to do this type of work. So we've come in and redesigned all the medical protocols to be able to do this. And then we can give all those, we can give the cheat sheet to the rest of their doctors and say, hey, we did the work for you. Let us give you the, let us give you the shortcut to what is going to help them change. And when other doctors work with us, they love it. They're like, we'd love to have time to do this. We just don't have the right, the right infrastructure and financial model. And it's like, I know, because during this work that I had to do to figure out the solution, I couldn't just figure out the treatment solution. We also had to figure out the economic model and how to break down the administrative workflows. Like we literally destroyed everything in a traditional medical practice and rebuilt the whole thing around solving these problems so we could serve patients. We could also serve their providers. Their providers got what they needed in the process. And we weren't displacing their provider, we were just supporting them. They're a really important part of it. I think doctors are generally trying to do good.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's what they signed up for, right?
SPEAKER_03No, most of them. I think there's there might be some bad apples, but you know, out of a million doctors or whatever it is in the US, the vast majority are good.
SPEAKER_01Well, of course. That's like, you know, those that say defund the police, or you know, they they always we can always pick and choose any profession and go, but yeah, in in general, I I would say all doctors are as good as Doogie Hauser and all the other doctors on ER and whatnot. So what I love about uh what you provide too is that people can see uh the change immediately. Because a lot of times, man, it what what's what beats people down is they do the work or they ex they they see they're really trying and it really doesn't move the needle. And when you say, like, you know, you you do a drug and it and it moves the needle a little, but nothing great over a year.
SPEAKER_03Oh, we me yeah, we measure in hours, like so like when someone comes in to see us, we look at like what's gonna happen in the next 72 hours and where they can start to feel better so we can start making changes immediately. And we're following up with patients within 24, 48, 72 hours in some cases to make sure they're starting to see the the benefits of that. I really think you've gotta like get you gotta get the wheel moving, you know. You gotta get you got to get things churning in in a good direction. And so um it's gotta be faster. People need to see that because they've been told that things are gonna change, they've been hope given hope so many times and nothing's changed. I think people get burned out on that.
SPEAKER_01Well, people also get burned out. The one thing that I love too about your method is yes, change your behavior, but it's not like you're going through the emotional uh, you know, let's let's try to beat them up or let's try to tell them what if. Well, what's who's not gonna be whose whose life are will you not be in a year from now if you don't change, you know what I mean? Like the emotional in for Anthony Saul Dickens, like because it's like Charles Dickens, like you know, the ghost. Yeah, yeah. When you try to guilt somebody, yeah, I'll
Door A, Door B, Or Door C
SPEAKER_01tell you a story about that.
SPEAKER_03Like, I we I I I had a I had my whole team was having no success with a patient, and this patient was um they needed insulin, and they and if they weren't gonna take insulin, they were gonna need um dialysis, and they didn't want to do either one of those things. And so they were in bad shape. And I just I told them, I was like, hey, look, here's the deal. Um, my team called me and said, You don't want to take insulin. They're like, I do not. I was like, great, I support that decision. And Dr. Robert, you're great. I was like, thanks, man. I really appreciate that. I heard you don't want dialysis either. They're like, I don't. I said, great, I support that decision too. And they're like, well, the other doctors didn't say that. I said, well, they tried to say that, but they didn't do it very well. So I need to get you a recommendation referral to a doctor called a palliative care doctor. Like, what's that? I said, that's the doctor you talk to before you die, because you're gonna be dead in 60 days. And I want to make sure that you're ready. You want to make sure you've got your will and your, you know, your trusts if you want those set up, and I want to make sure you talk to your family. And he's like, wait, wait, wait, whoa, what? So you're gonna be dead in 60 days, and I want to make sure that you do that in a way that you're, you know, that you're ready for. He's like, I don't want to die. I said, okay, well, here's the deal. You can choose insulin, you can choose dialysis, or you can choose death. And not choosing any of them gets you option C. So, like, I don't know what to tell you. That's science. That's not me. So help me help you. Do you want door A, door B, or door C? Like, well, I definitely don't want death. I was like, that leaves you with A or B. I definitely don't want dialysis. I said, Well, that leaves you with insulin. Like, well, I'm scared of needles. I was like, no problem. I can help you with that. And so we got a provider on the phone, got them a prescription, we got onto a video call where they could actually watch a provider teaching them over the video how to inject insulin in a way that wasn't going to be scary for them. And we had insulin in their house by the end of the day. Their daughter was on the phone learning about how they had to take care of them. And we had a new lease on life, but not for my reasons.
SPEAKER_01Well, because you showed um, you know, plan C, you know, or or like what you said.
SPEAKER_03Like plan C was real, right? Like plan C wasn't my plan. It was just, it was what was gonna happen. And so my job was just to be like, hey, I'm gonna support you, like whatever direction you want. Like that's your call. I just want to make sure you understand what you're what you're choosing, and then you choose.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm I'm glad you chose plan A because I know. It's the one yeah, yeah, plan B is pretty insaneful.
SPEAKER_03It's the one that I wanted for him, but I don't get to choose that. And so um but you know, and it's for us, it's all you know, we don't talk of these terms inside the practice, but I think my team would all tell you if you asked them in like, is it all done with love? Yeah, it really is. Like our team really is like we actually care. Somebody, somebody who's not on my team asked me the time, like they said, how do you get someone to think you care about them? I was like, it's really easy.
SPEAKER_02You just actually care about them.
SPEAKER_01You know that that's like um I forgot who oh Stephen Covey. Oh, I just love you know, well, I I I don't love my wife anymore. Well then just love do the action. And and it's an it's an action. When and when you take action, you know, action over feelings. Now, overall, a lot of people need your help.
Where To Start And How To Reach Us
SPEAKER_01How do they uh I mean, so it California and Texas, they can't you're coming everywhere, so reach reach up to us, reach out to us now.
SPEAKER_03We're we're in California, Texas, and Oregon now. We're gonna be in 18 more states pretty quickly, and we'll be in all 50 states with before too long as well. So just reach out. Even even if we can't help you as a medical practice, we can at least give you information to take into your medical provider to start the process and then move right, move more like that and get the medicine right.
SPEAKER_01Now, pristina.com, is that where is there information like yeah, there's great there's information for patients on pristina.com.
SPEAKER_03We're putting more and more information up. We're about to do a major like uh book release here by the end of the year. We'll have a book out for patients on this methodology. And um, we you know, with a couple of friends of mine, I we tell stories of hope at Tales of Abundance, which is our podcast, talesofabundance.com. We're always trying to find interesting stories about all different parts of life and and how you know how people have hope for themselves. And we have patients inside of our medical practice that change their life because they learn how to teach kids how to read at the local library. So you just you never know where the motivation is going to come from. Um, we want to talk to everybody, anybody who wants to be a part of the movement, like you know, reach out to us.
SPEAKER_01You are definitely a guy in service. That's that's what I love. That that's so when you asked what's my you know the the one thing that a lot of my guests are, because to me, to become successful in life, it's like what Zig Ziglar says you know, if you want to find success, help others find their success. Yeah, but but to also to be in in service, it's that a lot of people feel like, well, I'll help that person if I get something out of return. But you want uh to unconventional.
SPEAKER_03That was me before the accident, yes.
SPEAKER_01Now now now you're either you you want to see, you know, you want to see this country looking like uh I mean I 70s and 80s, so I I get it. You you want to see people in the Jordash, like like the Jordanash commercials back then, right? Like that, like that, but it's true. I mean, we could go to Hawaii, we could go to any beach in this country, and it doesn't look like what it did 40 years ago, didn't look like 30, 37, 35 years ago, whatever, when I graduated high school, and you know, just the simple fact. I mean, we've got eyes, it's not because all everybody's better looking, it's because they're healthier. I mean, you've seen all the the studies that kids nowadays will live a lot less than their parents. To me, if that's not a wake-up call, it's like holy smokes.
SPEAKER_03And here's here here's the good the good news is this it's true that we live in a world where it's harder to live healthy because of these things, but it's also true that each individual can make choices, as difficult as it is, and I grant you they are difficult choices to make, you can still make the choices to live a different life if you want to. It's harder. I get that it's harder. I know that we need to change some policies, I know that we need to change, you know, some of the kind of norms that we have around some of these things, but at the end of the day, you know, for the people that are interested in making a healthier set of choices themselves, they can. And I get that, you know, economics play a role. I get that it's you know difficult. Um, and so we've tried to really make sure that we have a program that works for anybody of any economic background, and that's really important to us.
SPEAKER_01So well, here's my man, uh we're just riffing over a lot of stuff just because you know like-minded energy and we're both in service. What here's the question to you, and I'm sure you get this a lot. I don't know, doc. I've gained like I don't know where 50, 60, 70 pounds uh popping pills left and right, just tired on it, you know, doing all this insulin. There's I don't know, I just feel like this it is what it is, and this is as good as it gets. Is it doc?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think for us what we do is we just ask, like, hey, what if it were if it were better, would you want to know? Like if it could get better and you could do it and it wasn't too hard, would you want to know?
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, the answer is like, heck yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, why? Like, why why would you want to know?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think everybody has a compelling, you know, for me.
SPEAKER_03And it's yeah, it's right, it's their reason. And and that's what we teach our providers is we teach our providers to find out what their reason is. Like every single patient, what's their reason? When we can find out their reason, and then we can find out what they're willing to do, then we say, okay, well, let's talk about what you're not willing to do. And if the guy's like, hey, anything but kale and carrots, then guess what? No kale and carrots.
SPEAKER_01And it's it's it's just easy shifts.
SPEAKER_03That's what I love about your and when someone's like, I'm gonna clean out my refrigerator today, my answer is hey, let's not do that. Let's just let's just not.
SPEAKER_01I I've seen it and I've heard it. That's why I had to yeah, I had to. Yeah, no, it's true. And we tell people, let's not, it's like, let's not do that. Let's just like let's let's just pick one thing. New Year's resolutions. You think about that. January 1st. How many people just throw out all their process stuff?
SPEAKER_03And they're it's like, you know, which I it's it's it's so well intentioned and it's so the right idea, but how about just like let's just make one little change right now, and then one more little change, and no, and they start to build so quickly. People get so excited about it, and it's great. Like it's it's really like and and a big part of it too, though. I mean, I don't want to poo-poo this part of it because it's not just that, it's it's also getting people into the right regimen. You know, if they're using insulin, getting them into the right regimen, and I don't mean the right regimen medically, lots of people on the right medical, but getting them on the right medical regimen that fits what they're gonna do to make sure they have better adherence to their medicine. Patient medical adherence is such a challenge because there's such a high level of what we call treatment burden, and we've got to lower that. Like we as providers have to actively work to lower treatment burden across the entire patient experience. And so we're doing a lot of work with that right now to show other providers how we can help them lower treatment burden across the entire patient experience.
SPEAKER_01Overall, though, connect, understand, understand their world, job ones job one, believe it or not, that's in everything. Imagine that. If we if we come from a place of non-judgment uh and we listen, and we really do listen, and we try to understand the world, uh you can move mountains, you can massive changes in everything in four in four sentences.
SPEAKER_03You just gave my TED talk like that was it.
SPEAKER_01Well, there you
Closing Thanks And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_01go. You see, great minds connect. Uh Dr. John Robert, and I gotta say, thank thank you, thank you for being on. Thank you for being generous with your time. I learned a lot. My listeners will learn a lot, and you're always in service. And you know, what you're doing right now, I know you're giving quality, and you're giving the number one resource that people time. We can't buy it, we can't buy health. And those are two things time and health. You're giving them both. Thank you for that, Doctor.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. I look forward to staying connected.