Our Guide to Pride - (and Why We Don't Celebrate It)

On today’s episode, how do we handle pride month, and why don’t we celebrate it?  We’ll also be taking some of your questions at the end of the episode!

On this podcast, we are faith-affirming first. This means before anything else, we affirm and support the doctrine of Jesus Christ as found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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Transcript

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00;00;00;00 - 00;00;00;24


00;00;01;00 - 00;00;06;03
Unknown
Welcome to sit down on Sky and Amanda, where we're navigating a divisive world in a mixed orientation marriage

00;00;06;03 - 00;00;08;17
Unknown
on this podcast, we are faith affirming. First,

00;00;08;17 - 00;00;12;21
Unknown
on today's episode, how do we handle Pride Month and why don't we celebrate it?

00;00;12;21 - 00;00;15;22
Unknown
We'll also be taking some of your questions at the end of the episode.

00;00;15;22 - 00;00;18;26
Unknown
All that and more on today's episode of Sit Down with Sky and Amanda

00;00;18;26 - 00;00;25;12


00;00;25;12 - 00;00;38;02
Unknown
all right. We're back. Welcome, everyone. Before recording, Amanda said, quote, I am not in a funny girl mood. I am on a tired girl mood. And so I might not be funny today.

00;00;38;05 - 00;00;59;12
Unknown
Do you want to address the start of this Start here? I don't know if it really needs addressing. It Sounds good. So a man is going be super boring today. Super dry, super roaring. Not quite a single joke. All right, Just be prepared. Just be prepared for that. Um, we're back after a little break. Kind of an unintentional break.

00;00;59;15 - 00;01;07;02
Unknown
We had some some things in our life. Um, I am starting a new job. I

00;01;07;02 - 00;01;20;26
Unknown
the last job I was at unfortunately, lost some funding, and the program is kind of continuing, maybe dissolving. We don't really know right now, needless to say. Or moral of the story.

00;01;20;26 - 00;01;23;24
Unknown
Um, I was let go, and so

00;01;23;24 - 00;01;30;26
Unknown
we had a week or two of scary uncertainty but was luckily able to find a job.

00;01;30;26 - 00;01;53;29
Unknown
And I start Monday and I'm very excited. So going to be good. Thank you for being patient with us. That's kind of why we had our little break. But we're back. Life just got really busy with that. We went crazy. Figure everything out. It's stressful just like that when you don't know what's next. That phase is what we've talked so many times about how that's our least favorite thing in this entire world.

00;01;54;00 - 00;02;17;08
Unknown
It seems like life just keeps giving us opportunities to get comfortable with that. Mm. I don't think it's life. I think it's got. That's what I meant to say. Yeah. It's, it's not just the random, the universe. Universe. Cosmos. Oh, um, yeah, just a couple announcements here. You can preorder my book on Amazon or Cedar for its website.

00;02;17;08 - 00;02;30;24
Unknown
It comes out June 13th is the official release date. Very excited about that. I have a giveaway going on on Instagram right now. Just go on to our Instagram page. You can find the details for entering that.

00;02;30;24 - 00;02;39;29
Unknown
I had an article out this week from Desert News and then have another one coming out. Well, tomorrow. And we're recording this about Friday.

00;02;40;02 - 00;03;06;15
Unknown
So, um, today if you're listening when this comes out, um, another article with Public Square magazine and then my audio book should be available for order soon. So keep an eye out for that. If you just can't get enough of his soothing voice through the podcast, you can listen to it in an audio book, but the audience doesn't know is that you're stroking my arm right now.

00;03;06;17 - 00;03;35;27
Unknown
They don't know that, just kind of condescending. But it was but also sweet, I guess. Well, you think that. But anyway, so today. Yeah, today we're talking about Pride Month. It's Pride Month. It is you. If you aren't aware, if you haven't seen if you don't have social media and you don't go to any stores, then that is like the only reason that you wouldn't know it's Pride Month.

00;03;35;29 - 00;03;59;13
Unknown
Yeah, it's kind of everywhere. It's, um, our our modern culture has decided that it is one of the most important months of the year, the holiest month, and they won't let us forget it. So we, we just wanted to talk about today how we deal with Pride Month because. Oh, what was that? What was that like? No idea.

00;03;59;13 - 00;04;07;12
Unknown
I don't want to look into it because it might be something bad and something broke and don't want to deal with it. That's sounded like it came from.

00;04;07;12 - 00;04;24;23
Unknown
I don't know. That was so strange. That was. Anyways, our house is probably caving in on us right now, but we're going to continue. Um, yeah, like we. Cause like I said at the onset, we, I don't really identify with the movement tied to LGBTQ.

00;04;24;28 - 00;04;31;05
Unknown
and so how do I do we deal with that, And especially during this time

00;04;31;05 - 00;04;48;14
Unknown
of Pride month, how do I handle that and how to, as a man to handle that and what, what are like some positive aspects of the movement, um, and Pride month because it's, it's not like it's all bad. We want to recognize a few good things.

00;04;48;14 - 00;04;52;15
Unknown
I think it's our upstairs neighbors. I think that's what's happening.

00;04;52;15 - 00;05;00;29
Unknown
Yeah, I think it's upstairs. I hope they're okay up there. Yeah, We live in a basement apartment. If it wasn't obvious. So, um.

00;05;00;29 - 00;05;32;20
Unknown
Yeah, because it's not like it's all bad, and we're not here to claim that, but we just think it's helpful to think of the totality of of the movement and the message behind the movement. What are we saying when we embrace the movement in its totality? So that's what we want to talk about today. So to start with the positive, um, what are some of the positive aspects of the Pride movement and Pride Month?

00;05;32;20 - 00;05;44;06
Unknown
Like what what are some of the good things that we can point to? You feel like I'm on a quiz show, Was it ready? Go The timer set for 30 seconds. What's your answer?

00;05;44;06 - 00;05;48;15
Unknown
Uh, just giving,

00;05;48;15 - 00;05;50;20
Unknown
I think one thing that is,

00;05;50;20 - 00;06;09;26
Unknown
I mean, a pro of the pride movement is it can provide people, like, with a sense of support and community. Mm hmm. I mean, there's a lot of like minded people, and, like, they have similar experiences, and it just provides that support for those who may not have it.

00;06;09;28 - 00;06;30;00
Unknown
Yeah, and kind of that's like the good aspect because. Because some people just don't have a support system at home. And so they find that sense of community with people who share an experience with them. And I think that can be a positive thing. There is also kind of the other side of it where, if you

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Unknown
like, if you find a community, that's a good thing.

00;06;32;03 - 00;07;03;22
Unknown
But if if the community you're involved with are pushing you or enabling you to do things that are immoral, then it's kind of a negative because then you are being led or like you're you're being supported in your own spiritual destruction, essentially. So it's kind of like the pro and the con there. If you it's good to have a support system, it's good to have friends.

00;07;03;22 - 00;07;23;06
Unknown
But if your friends are helping you or like helping you feel more comfortable doing things that are pushing you away from Jesus Christ in a way from God, um, that would be a negative thing, I think too. Something

00;07;23;06 - 00;07;31;01
Unknown
that I just thought of was if you're basing your friendship off of your sexuality,

00;07;31;01 - 00;07;35;24
Unknown
like what kind of friendship and connection is that really going to provide?

00;07;35;24 - 00;07;38;22
Unknown
I mean, it's just sexuality is, is such a

00;07;38;22 - 00;07;53;10
Unknown
like an adjacent part of who people are. Like, it's an important part, but it's just a piece of who people are. And I know a lot of times we base our other friendships off of just pieces of us, but the ones that really last are ones where

00;07;53;10 - 00;07;55;28
Unknown
there's more depth, there's more depth to it.

00;07;56;01 - 00;07;57;22
Unknown
And I think to

00;07;57;22 - 00;08;05;05
Unknown
like if you're meeting in a setting that is focused solely on your sexuality, that's going to be

00;08;05;05 - 00;08;26;19
Unknown
having a hard time wording what I'm trying to say. But I think I get what you're saying cause there's, there's kind of an assumption where because I am technically represented by the G and the LGBTQ that I share an experience or like I can relate to other people in the LGBTQ spectrum, but not only that, also that I

00;08;26;19 - 00;08;32;29
Unknown
inevitably will relate to another gay person when in my experience I

00;08;32;29 - 00;08;34;20
Unknown
gay individuals.

00;08;34;23 - 00;09;00;28
Unknown
Typically, a lot of times I relate less to them because a lot of times they are not religious and they don't share that experience. And so it's kind of this assumption that because I am represented in the acronym, I, I feel a sense of camaraderie, camaraderie with individuals who also share that experience, which isn't the case for a lot of people.

00;09;01;00 - 00;09;27;14
Unknown
And even like I mean, it's it's one of those letters and the acronym is a very different experience. And because we've lumped them all together, there's again, there's an assumption that we all share an experience which really isn't the case. We can not to say that we don't or we can't like we, we can find someone who has similar experiences, but it's not a sure fire.

00;09;27;14 - 00;09;32;29
Unknown
It's not like a hard and fast rule that we relate to one another.

00;09;32;29 - 00;09;35;19
Unknown
Um, another positive I think would just be

00;09;35;19 - 00;09;47;06
Unknown
that it is like some people see it as a way to right past wrongs. Um, people, LGBTQ people have experienced,

00;09;47;06 - 00;09;53;28
Unknown
like they've been put upon by society in some real ways. And we can recognize that,

00;09;53;28 - 00;10;19;07
Unknown
but like, like a lot of things, there is kind of an overcorrection where a lot of times, um, there is a more radical side of the LGBT Q movement, and a lot of times their radicalism, their intolerance is justified or ignored or even celebrated, um, because there's this understanding that in the past they have been

00;10;19;09 - 00;10;26;03
Unknown
discriminated against in some ways. And so it's almost like, okay, let's write that wrong by just kind of

00;10;26;03 - 00;10;32;08
Unknown
justifying anything that they do or like not not criticizing any

00;10;32;08 - 00;10;50;18
Unknown
indecent behavior because they've been put upon. Right. It's like I mean, we all can realize that. I mean, LGBTQ people have experienced hurt and pain in the past. And so I think people in a sense of I don't know,

00;10;50;18 - 00;10;54;28
Unknown
I think most people have genuine desires to be compassionate and kind.

00;10;54;28 - 00;11;07;17
Unknown
And so they say, oh, well, they've they've had this terrible experience in the past and they have real hurt. So the way that they're acting is justified and we can excuse it. And I mean,

00;11;07;17 - 00;11;29;07
Unknown
I don't think there are any other groups like any more radical groups who are more just justified or like shielded or protected than the the activist wing of LGBTQ, because that's like the very that's a subset of a subset.

00;11;29;09 - 00;11;30;29
Unknown
Not everyone who

00;11;30;29 - 00;11;40;04
Unknown
know that not even everyone who engages with pride would fall under that category. I'm talking about like a very specific subset of people who

00;11;40;04 - 00;11;46;25
Unknown
are like more in the activist wing, um, who kind of feel the license to

00;11;46;25 - 00;12;01;17
Unknown
do whatever they want and not face repercussions and any sort of constructive criticism is seen as a, like a personal attack against them and seen as hateful.

00;12;01;20 - 00;12;40;07
Unknown
Um, and so like in any situation, if you are in a group that is so shielded from criticism, I think it's time to start thinking about, okay, is this healthy? Like being shielded from any sort of criticism? Is that a good place to be? I mean, we just saw before recording, I opened up my phone and saw a post from an individual who, um, I knew from from the past and not, not personally, but am aware of who has transitioned and put in their posts about how they are receiving

00;12;40;07 - 00;12;45;28
Unknown
top surgery and how they want to be supported.

00;12;46;00 - 00;13;11;02
Unknown
And if anyone comments anything other than full and, and like full support, I'm going to block you. But that's what she said. And so I just like I don't think that is a healthy place to be shielding yourself from any and all. Criticism is never a good place to be. We want it to be constructive criticism. We want it to be respectful.

00;13;11;04 - 00;13;37;15
Unknown
But if you like, if you're so afraid of hearing other perspectives that you just put yourself into a bubble, that's a really damaging place to be, I think. Yeah, And I think I think that mindset comes from shame. I think people have this mindset of, Oh, I feel this shame.

00;13;37;15 - 00;13;46;24
Unknown
And so I'm going to require that everyone around me affirm all my choices and supports me and everything.

00;13;46;26 - 00;13;48;12
Unknown
But I think

00;13;48;12 - 00;13;55;04
Unknown
and I think that's one thing that the Pride movement gets wrong is I don't think it really addresses shame. It just says

00;13;55;04 - 00;14;06;24
Unknown
you have to love and accept me the way that I am no matter what. I don't think it really gets to the root of shame, which is there are things about me that are imperfect and things that I wish that I didn't have, but

00;14;06;24 - 00;14;08;05
Unknown
that's okay.

00;14;08;07 - 00;14;11;00
Unknown
I'm still a valuable and lovable person.

00;14;11;00 - 00;14;32;02
Unknown
it doesn't matter if I have these aspects of myself that are less than ideal, whereas Pride just says, Oh, well, I have these things about me and there's nothing wrong with them. And so I think Pride grew out of a desire to dispel shame because a lot of LGBTQ people did face that

00;14;32;02 - 00;14;40;10
Unknown
when I say shame on talking about that very negative self-hatred type of shame, not necessarily like guilt or,

00;14;40;10 - 00;14;44;01
Unknown
you know, like the healthy guilt that leads you to do better.

00;14;44;02 - 00;15;08;29
Unknown
Exactly. Is like a dark, debilitating self-hatred type of shame. And anyone can recognize that that's not healthy. That's not right. Yeah. I just don't think the way to resolve it is necessarily by swinging all the way to the other end of the spectrum, of absolute total acceptance of who I am. And I can do no wrong. I can do no wrong.

00;15;08;29 - 00;15;11;05
Unknown
Like I don't think that's healthy either,

00;15;11;05 - 00;15;40;15
Unknown
right? And I don't think it fixes the problem. It just is like a Band-Aid over it. Yeah, it's the slingshot over to the other extreme of I don't like this feeling of shame, and shame is bad. And that is a true, um. But instead of shame, I'm going to slingshot to pride and I'm going to find my fulfillment in, like, self-discovery and again, believing that I am, I can do no wrong.

00;15;40;15 - 00;15;52;12
Unknown
And I should have pride in not not only like who I am, but what I do. And it because it's a difference. Because, like, I have pride in

00;15;52;12 - 00;16;08;09
Unknown
my family, like I have pride in certain things. It's not writing like your accomplishments. Sure. But this is a very different thing. It's not just like a pride. And in your accomplishments or things like that, it's, uh, it's, uh.

00;16;08;11 - 00;16;32;04
Unknown
I can do no wrong again. Yeah, I think that. I think that key phrase that you just said I can do no wrong is a really good explanation of, like, the differences. We realize, like most people realize I can be wrong because I have and we all have. And and again, not everyone has that mindset who engages with pride.

00;16;32;04 - 00;17;00;10
Unknown
It's just these are these are aspects of the pride movement that we notice that we want to call attention to, because they're not healthy, right? They're not good. And I think I think a lot of church members are feel compelled to celebrate pride because they see it as a way to more fully follow the Prophet's call to love our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.

00;17;00;12 - 00;17;05;18
Unknown
Yeah, there's like, there's two things happening. There are like people, um,

00;17;05;18 - 00;17;29;29
Unknown
apostles like m Russell Ballard. He gave a talk that he where he talked about how we should show greater love and seek greater understanding of LGBTQ people. So there's that call from our prophets and apostles. And then on the other side in the culture, Pride celebrations and the Pride movement is advertised as the best or even the only way to show support and love to this community.

00;17;30;05 - 00;17;59;16
Unknown
And so those two things come together and and so some members of the church come to the conclusion that our prophets are encouraging us to engage with Pride celebrations as a way to show love to LGBTQ people. And I think there are a few problems with this, um, with the Pride movement. Again, when you, when you look at it in its entirety, you have to you have to consider it in its entirety.

00;17;59;16 - 00;18;04;21
Unknown
And what message are you sending by engaging with the movement? Well,

00;18;04;21 - 00;18;25;03
Unknown
inseparably connected to the good part of the movement, like the support and love side of the movement is the The progressive social politics side of it and the sexual liberation side of it. Those two things are inseparably connected and you may not like you may individual not,

00;18;25;03 - 00;18;40;01
Unknown
promote those ideas like, not subscribe to those ideas, but your involvement with the movement is going to still send that message to especially the most impressionable members of the church who see, Oh, church members are engaging with this movement.

00;18;40;01 - 00;19;06;14
Unknown
What is this movement? What are like the key tenants of of the movement? And oh, that must mean that these church members are sanctioning all of these things and so they are good. And so there's, uh, like an assumption made that, um, like the political side of the movement is good. Like, is just as good as the love, support, love part of the movement.

00;19;06;14 - 00;19;07;18
Unknown
They come together

00;19;07;18 - 00;19;14;09
Unknown
and you really can't separate those things. Yeah, you really, you really can't separate them because so many people

00;19;14;09 - 00;19;37;24
Unknown
within the movement do promote this sexual liberation and these progressive politics. And so there's not there's not really a way to participate in pride. Go to pride parades, you know, have a pride flag. There's not really a way to do that without making this statement or

00;19;37;24 - 00;19;41;06
Unknown
automatically tying yourself to that movement.

00;19;41;09 - 00;19;50;14
Unknown
Right. And I think I think one dangerous thing, especially for church members about engaging in pride, is that it

00;19;50;14 - 00;19;53;07
Unknown
it reimagines like it

00;19;53;07 - 00;20;07;01
Unknown
it kind of like changes the emphasis. I think there's two parts of it. Sorry, brain is moving a million miles a minute and my head is not following me. My, my, my mouth is not falling where I'm right.

00;20;07;01 - 00;20;29;22
Unknown
This guy, you can no longer have tired girl energy. Oh, no, this is tired, girl. It it's just. It's just. It's the tired where you get loopy. I think it's funny. Exactly. Okay, let's try this again, friends. So two parts that are dangerous for church members. One,

00;20;29;22 - 00;20;35;05
Unknown
something about pride is that there are undertones of

00;20;35;05 - 00;20;41;00
Unknown
anti-religious sentiment, and I think that's really dangerous

00;20;41;00 - 00;20;43;03
Unknown
to tie yourself to.

00;20;43;03 - 00;20;45;10
Unknown
Like, like we said, you can't really

00;20;45;10 - 00;21;17;11
Unknown
participate in pride with not while not without sort of like, untether yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. We see this all the time. I mean, there was a case just recently by the L.A. Dodgers. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. They were doing a pride night. I'll just give a quick rundown. They're doing a pride night for one of their games, and they invited this drag performances.

00;21;17;11 - 00;21;48;13
Unknown
Drag. Okay. This group of drag performers called Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. And then they got a lot of backlash because the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, they essentially dress up as nuns and then perform drag. And it's pretty insane some of the things that they do and just very secretive, like, yeah, just makes a mockery of the Catholic faith and religion in a whole as a whole.

00;21;48;13 - 00;22;12;16
Unknown
I'd say Christianity as a as a whole, honestly. And what's interesting is the L.A. Dodgers. So they announced that they were going to have these performers, which, if you're not familiar with drag, it's it's men dressing as women and dancing provocatively. That's essentially what it is. And it's become kind of a core piece of pride of the movement and celebrations.

00;22;12;19 - 00;22;37;26
Unknown
It's it's hard to find a pride celebration without drag performance performances. So the L.A. Dodgers announced that they were having this and received backlash and then decided to cancel them coming. And then the backlash came from the other side, from the LGBTQ side, and I guess was more significant maybe. And so they went back on that and they re invited them.

00;22;37;28 - 00;23;08;19
Unknown
And so they did perform. And it hasn't happened it hasn't happened yet to get to this month. So they are still invited and they, I assume, are going to show up. But it's just an interesting point that it's this anti-religious group essentially performing at a pride night during Pride month that, again, is is celebrated. This is a very radical group who again has very anti-religious sentiment.

00;23;08;22 - 00;23;39;28
Unknown
Um, and not only are they being excused, but they're, they're celebrated. And I think it's it's easy to to see things like this as kind of like weird, aberrational, um, like exceptions. Um, but it, it really does happen more often than we think. And we can't ignore these things because I, like, it's my tendency to just want to roll my eyes at something because it's just so weird and like, whatever.

00;23;40;01 - 00;24;08;22
Unknown
But it really is like becoming more of a core part of Pride celebrations. And we shouldn't ignore that. We should take the movement in its totality and then decide if we want to promote all of these things. Because again, we can individually decide not to promote certain aspects of pride, but we don't really get to choose what message it sends when we engage with pride, what message that sends to those around us.

00;24;08;24 - 00;24;13;10
Unknown
And we don't really get to choose that right. It does come as a package deal.

00;24;13;10 - 00;24;42;21
Unknown
So I think one of the like one of the things one of the other things is if it's not like a overtly anti-religious sentiment, there is kind of a different phenomenon where members of the movement, like as a condition to any sort of reconciliation, they put really strong demands on like what needs to happen in order to come to a some sort of reconciliation.

00;24;42;24 - 00;25;06;22
Unknown
And that usually comes in the form of the doctrine of of eternal families must change or we can't have an understanding like we we have to cut you out of our life like that girl posted on Facebook. If there's any sort of disagreement, I'm just going to block you and that sort of idea. So this is something I mentioned in my book.

00;25;06;24 - 00;25;33;24
Unknown
But Dan Reynolds of Imagine Dragons, um, he put on the what's called the Love Loud Festival. I think we may have talked about that before, but just this music festival, um, with the, the, um, purpose of, um, love, like showing support again for LGBTQ people. But then also there's kind of another purpose that was very clear and it was to pressure the church to change the doctrine.

00;25;33;26 - 00;25;55;04
Unknown
So kind of the climax of there's a film made about the we went to the very first one, the very first festivals in Provo. We went to the first one or um, I guess Oromia, um, and it was like generally good experience we had, we had a good time. There were some messages that were good and wholesome, others that were a little bit more iffy.

00;25;55;06 - 00;26;23;03
Unknown
Um, and the church originally, um, didn't like promote the festival, but they put out a statement of like, we want to show love and like, we hope this will be a good thing and a good positive thing to, to understand. Those were differences. Um, but so the documentary was put out, um, a year or two later by HBO and kind of at the climax of the film,

00;26;23;03 - 00;26;36;09
Unknown
there's this sort of montage where Dan Reynolds, he's talking about the, like all of their efforts to put on this the show and to show love and support.

00;26;36;12 - 00;27;02;24
Unknown
Um, and then it's him walking around Temple Square and it's juxtaposed with, um, shots and, and audio from Elder Oaks talk. I think it was love in law where he talks about how we should love those were differences but then also reaffirm the doctrine of eternal families. And the sentiment that Dan Reynolds had was kind of one of failure.

00;27;02;24 - 00;27;30;05
Unknown
He was saying like, oh, like it was really disappointing to hear that. And essentially we failed in our mission. We failed in our mission of, of, um, pressuring the church to change the doctrine. And so if it's not like overtly anti-religious, again, there are these conditions put and I can understand like, I don't think it's, it's malicious, like it's maliciously motivated.

00;27;30;05 - 00;28;00;29
Unknown
but we do have to be willing to ask, like if the church does continue, um, to uphold the doctrine, which I think it will like, I don't think I fully believe that this is, these are ancient doctrines, not something that our prophets have the liberty to change. And so I think we should embrace it. Um, so if that is the case, like, if that does continue, are people on the other side?

00;28;00;29 - 00;28;10;17
Unknown
Are you willing to offer us reconciliation and grace and understanding? Are you willing to come to the table with us and

00;28;10;17 - 00;28;29;03
Unknown
not put those conditions on whether or not we come together and have an understanding? Like, are you willing to do that? If that is the case? Because I guess my question, one other thing kind of switching gears is a tiny bit.

00;28;29;05 - 00;29;04;15
Unknown
Yeah. So I went on for a long time and now you're good. Was I said I was going to mention two things that are dangerous for religious people and this is the second one. So it kind of re-imagines the re-imagined Dragons. You're the funny girl tonight. It's a Thank you. You're welcome. Anyways, it reimagines the ideal family structure.

00;29;04;17 - 00;29;07;28
Unknown
There's not really a way to.

00;29;07;28 - 00;29;36;21
Unknown
okay. I want to tread lightly in the way that I say this. Tread lightly. I'm going to be offended. I know you are, but you're kind of everything. Call me Bud Powell or Colin Powell. Bud. Anyways, so the as members of the church, we believe that marriage is between a man and woman. We believe that that's God's way and that that's the way to eternal life.

00;29;36;28 - 00;29;44;04
Unknown
Okay. So when you go to pride, obviously we believe that there is

00;29;44;04 - 00;29;45;22
Unknown
a

00;29;45;22 - 00;30;08;15
Unknown
I'm just gonna say it. I'm like bouncing around this phrase because I feel like I have to be careful about what I say. But we do believe that there is a better type of union, more fulfilled living, a more eternal type of union, and then that it's between a man and a woman.

00;30;08;18 - 00;30;23;01
Unknown
So essentially, when you participate in pride, you're essentially saying that they are those type of union, that same sex union and a heterosexual union are equal and like morally, morally equivalent. Yeah.

00;30;23;01 - 00;30;36;28
Unknown
And you can't really detach that ideology from pride. Yeah. Because it is essentially the essence of what pride is. And there's kind of like there's a

00;30;36;28 - 00;30;49;14
Unknown
theoretically there is a situation where we can like, sanction same sex relationships while also not devaluing traditional the traditional nuclear family.

00;30;49;16 - 00;31;12;18
Unknown
Like theoretically that is possible, but that's not what's happening in reality. There's kind of at the same time that we're sanctioning other sexual lifestyles at the same time the nuclear family is being devalued. So it's hard not to like see those as correlated when they're happening at the same time.

00;31;12;18 - 00;31;19;24
Unknown
Yeah, Skyler's always says it better. So if you need to take notes, maybe take notes.

00;31;19;24 - 00;31;53;15
Unknown
Our sky said this is you say it like more more succinctly. I always have to like, add complexity. No, no. But in all reality, I really like the way that Skyler said it. It is happening where theoretically there could be some way that we could, you know, say, okay, will allow same sex marriages, whatever, without devaluing marriage, like heterosexual marriage between a man and woman.

00;31;53;17 - 00;32;18;24
Unknown
But that's not what's happening. And there is a correlation. I'm just repeating everything you said. That's good. I just wanted to emphasize how good it was. Oh, thanks. Okay. So just I appreciate that. Keep it up. But. But, Nick, Nicole, you. But all vodka. Okay, so, like, if we don't celebrate pride, what are some alternatives or what should we do?

00;32;18;24 - 00;32;44;06
Unknown
I guess it's a little bit confusing. Not not confusing. Like, I know why people in the church celebrate pride. There's more to it. Um, What? Why are you doing that? And I can. I'm just going up and down with the cursor on the computer. What's the problem? You know, it's annoying. Okay, I'll stop. Yeah, it is literally just washing the oven down, arrow on the cursor and anxious to it.

00;32;44;06 - 00;33;03;25
Unknown
This is an anxious tick. It's funny. And the fact that they even realize that that's what I was like. I was tapping his arm. I thought you were saying, like I skipped a party, right? Like, shook my head, Shook my finger. Wagged your finger to whom? I was trying to leave that one out. Yeah. Not gonna leave that detail out.

00;33;03;25 - 00;33;28;01
Unknown
No, No secrets here. When we're recording. I'm doing okay. I'm going to stop. So. Yeah. So what are some alternatives if we don't celebrate pride? Um, I mean, for me, like, the Gospel already calls for unconditional love. I don't think, like, we don't need the the pride movement to tell us that we need to show love. The Gospel already does that.

00;33;28;03 - 00;33;33;08
Unknown
And when we consider the definition of the true love of Christ charity,

00;33;33;08 - 00;34;03;05
Unknown
as it said in the Book of Mormon, I believe Moroni charity the the pure love of Christ rejoice us not in iniquity, but rejoice in the truth. So in order to show Christlike love, we have to rejoice in the truth. And I think it's difficult, if not impossible, while engaging with pride celebrations to rejoice in the truth and to not champion um again a reimagining of sexual morals.

00;34;03;08 - 00;34;09;20
Unknown
Those two things are very much connected. And so I think if we want to rejoice in the truth and show

00;34;09;20 - 00;34;15;26
Unknown
love in a way that Christ would, um, I think it comes more to

00;34;15;26 - 00;34;28;14
Unknown
like recognizing the inherent value of individuals and, and showing that God loves them. Um, and wants more for them than just like, uh,

00;34;28;14 - 00;34;33;04
Unknown
um, a more short sighted sort of self-fulfillment.

00;34;33;04 - 00;34;54;13
Unknown
I also think we can kind of reimagine or talk about the doctrine differently. Um, I think a lot of members of the church feel the need to when, when talking with or about LGBTQ people to kind of have like an apologetic tone when talking about the doctrine.

00;34;54;13 - 00;35;07;08
Unknown
but I don't think like, we need to apologize for it or be we can be tactful, we can be understand that it might be difficult for for some people to accept different aspects of the gospel.

00;35;07;11 - 00;35;34;03
Unknown
I'm not saying we need to be abrasive or rude, but we don't need to apologize for the gospel truth because they have the capacity to help people for the better and and set them up on the spiritual trajectory to become the best version of themselves. Why would we apologize for championing something like that? And I did this just earlier in the podcast.

00;35;34;06 - 00;35;56;23
Unknown
What did you do? I didn't apologize. Oh, but I just yeah, I was still basically calling you out. And I know you were, so. I know. But it really is a learning process, clearly. I mean, it takes time to figure that out and figure out how to balance

00;35;56;23 - 00;36;05;04
Unknown
grace and truth and how to how to speak truth while not apologizing for it.

00;36;05;06 - 00;36;26;27
Unknown
Um, I like how how Elder Oaks talked about it in his recent broadcasts, which if you haven't listened to listeners, I'd highly recommend he was a young single adult one as a young single adult broadcast that recently did. Um, but he talked about this this balance and LGBTQ issues.

00;36;26;27 - 00;36;36;16
Unknown
and he talked about how he's kind of recently re re visualized, how he thinks about the balance of love in law.

00;36;36;18 - 00;37;01;02
Unknown
Like he used to think about it as a, as, like a scale. So if you are pursuing law, then you are necessarily pursuing love less. Like it's a balancing scale and like it's like a zero sum game. Yeah, I was just going to say like it all equals like to 100%. And so if you're at 25% and one, you're 75% in the other, That's how a lot of us think about it.

00;37;01;02 - 00;37;25;00
Unknown
I think, yeah. And so he talked about how he as recently reimagined that where he now envisions it as he's pursuing both of them full force like it's not if you're pursuing one, it's not you're pursuing the other less like you should pursue love and law both equally at the same time pursuing a lot of like hand of hand motions here that you can't see.

00;37;25;04 - 00;37;49;25
Unknown
You're trying to like this plane and something just need does light up. I mean, you basically you have a headset on. I do, yeah. I think they probably wear hats. You're wearing a hat. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. So, anyway, maybe that's what I could do for my new job instead of the video editing. Video editing jobs, go to plane landing school.

00;37;49;25 - 00;38;14;06
Unknown
I don't know. You acting school? Yeah. Anyway, there are so many inside jokes I was going to say, but I refrained. I hope you all know no inside jokes. They're irritating when you're an outside. So how can we move forward with this? What is the way forward when we are? Some members of the church decide to engage with pride, Some don't.

00;38;14;06 - 00;38;17;07
Unknown
And like what? How can we move forward here?

00;38;17;07 - 00;38;39;15
Unknown
I think one going back to Elder Oaks is his broadcast. He and his wife, um, he read a letter from a young woman who was frustrated because she felt like she was the only one standing for these principles related to marriage and family. And she felt like all the other members of the church were,

00;38;39;15 - 00;38;47;09
Unknown
um, kind of engaging in the language and the principles of the LGBTQ side of things.

00;38;47;09 - 00;39;06;15
Unknown
And so she felt frustrated and I was thinking about that. And I think we just need to be willing to stand alone, but then also take comfort knowing that there are so many on our side of this on on God's side and there are so many who

00;39;06;15 - 00;39;27;22
Unknown
share our perspective and are willing to stand for gospel principles. I think there's kind of a section of people who would like to convince you that you are crazy and that you are radical for having these time tested like old biblical values.

00;39;27;24 - 00;39;31;14
Unknown
You're not the radical one for her, for having these values.

00;39;31;14 - 00;39;44;04
Unknown
the, uh, the very new ideas of sexual liberation, those could be more accurately described as, as the radical, um, the time tested things are

00;39;44;04 - 00;39;52;11
Unknown
some people think that I said this in my article there, there are, um, there's like ancient wisdom and some people think that

00;39;52;11 - 00;39;58;11
Unknown
ancient wisdom needs to prove itself to you as valuable.

00;39;58;14 - 00;40;06;26
Unknown
And then if it can't, then radical like new ideas should take its place, when in reality it should be the other way around. Ancient wisdom

00;40;06;26 - 00;40;08;08
Unknown
that is established.

00;40;08;08 - 00;40;25;29
Unknown
If you have another idea for so many years, yeah. It shouldn't have to prove itself right. And if you have another idea that you want to present, great. But like, your new idea has the burden and the proof to, to, to convince you that it should replace ancient wisdom.

00;40;26;01 - 00;40;35;18
Unknown
Like that is the line, the line of succession that needs to occur instead of the other way around. It's a good way to say, yeah,

00;40;35;18 - 00;40;40;16
Unknown
what other like what else can we do to it as we're moving forward here? I think

00;40;40;16 - 00;40;42;06
Unknown
realizing that

00;40;42;06 - 00;40;52;11
Unknown
the gospel is like the gospel message and what we're sharing is we're not just sharing it just because we want to prove a point.

00;40;52;11 - 00;41;04;02
Unknown
We want to win the debate. We want to be right. But we we've really, truly found success and peace and happiness. And we believe that that is available to everyone.

00;41;04;02 - 00;41;22;08
Unknown
Yeah. I think that's a good point. It's we're not I think we need to like, separate political activism from missionary work. There's a time and a place for both, but we should ask ourselves before engaging with someone, is this like a political discussion or is this missionary work?

00;41;22;11 - 00;41;26;06
Unknown
And they kind of bleed together? But I think also,

00;41;26;06 - 00;41;50;17
Unknown
like we can separate the two things because if we're trying to be missionaries and like trying to change hearts and minds, it's not going to happen through debate most likely. Well, definitely Like debate may facilitate an environment where they can start thinking about things like eventually feel the spirit, but it's not a debate in and of itself that is going to convert them.

00;41;50;20 - 00;41;56;15
Unknown
The spirit truly is the only way to change people's hearts. Yeah.

00;41;56;15 - 00;42;04;00
Unknown
So, um. Yeah, I, um. Should we take some questions here?

00;42;04;00 - 00;42;04;23
Unknown
Sure.

00;42;04;23 - 00;42;05;27
Unknown
Let's do it.

00;42;05;27 - 00;42;09;29
Unknown
Okay. So here's just some anonymous questions from some

00;42;09;29 - 00;42;26;24
Unknown
followers on Instagram. Do you think that having influencers or influencers like you now growing up would have made your path a little easier? It it would, in my case, saved me tons of pain. But you're the one in a mixed rotation marriage.

00;42;26;24 - 00;42;59;21
Unknown
What do you think? I don't really know if I'd classify myself as an influencer, but, um, I have talked about and written about how I believe, like, I can't imagine growing up in today's environment where there are so many influencers, elders, influencers who are on the other side of this where it's like very much more affirming of like the LGBTQ side, less faith affirming, less orthodox in their thinking.

00;42;59;23 - 00;43;03;19
Unknown
I think that would've made things a lot more confusing for me.

00;43;03;19 - 00;43;24;22
Unknown
and yeah, I think it would have been helpful to have people who are on the path that I was pursuing. Um, and like more good examples, I did find some like Ty and Danielle Mansfield. They were a good resource for me to look to for both of us.

00;43;24;24 - 00;43;48;16
Unknown
Yeah. And this was more like when we were dating and Yes, and when I was growing up. But I was going to pop in and say, I think obviously I'm not the one who had the experience of growing up gay, but I'm not gay. I made that sound like I became gay as an adult. That's stupid. Why did you just come out to me?

00;43;48;18 - 00;44;25;06
Unknown
Oh, it was getting. But when was it? Eight months. Skyler. Everything as does him. Sorry for. I. Okay. What I was trying to say before I was rudely interrupted by myself was when we were dating. It was really hard to find people who were in a successful, happy, mixed orientation marriage. I think Sky did highlight Ty Mansfield and Danielle, I believe, is her name.

00;44;25;06 - 00;44;56;03
Unknown
hope I'm right. I'm pretty sure I really should know this, but I don't. But yeah, they were influence in influential. Did they say that? Right? Influential, huh? Influential doesn't sound right, but it was really hard to find positive mixed orientation marriage stories. So yeah, it would have been really helpful when we were dating at least a lot of the ones that have kind of blown up have gotten a lot of media attention.

00;44;56;09 - 00;44;59;04
Unknown
And so it's easy to find

00;44;59;04 - 00;45;14;08
Unknown
I guess negative examples. Um, but I think more difficult to find good ones. But there are plenty like there are a lot of people in mixed orientation marriages or gay members of the church that we're aware of who are really great and stalwart and happy. And,

00;45;14;08 - 00;45;15;07
Unknown
they're definitely out there.

00;45;15;07 - 00;45;39;27
Unknown
Like there's a pretty robust community in, in the church if you're willing to look. MM Another question. I'm getting a new temple in my area and receiving what feels like a lot of negative feedback, how to deal with the hate and negativity about my religion. So that's, uh, that's something that we are pretty familiar with, at least like online.

00;45;39;29 - 00;46;01;11
Unknown
Um, recently as, as a couple of weeks ago, we, um, I posted something on Instagram, um, and Twitter that received quite a bit of backlash from it kind of got into like the wrong corners of the internet and got a lot of hate thrown our way.

00;46;01;11 - 00;46;04;26
Unknown
and how do we deal with that? Well, because it's a good question.

00;46;04;29 - 00;46;27;21
Unknown
It's kind of a balance of like ignoring it, slash it. If you're in a good like mental state, if you're in a situation where you can engage and like try and sift through just the trolls and find like honest people trying to, that's what I usually try to do. Um, and then I find those honest people

00;46;27;21 - 00;46;37;22
Unknown
and ask them questions like clarifying questions or try to address their concern in a in a loving and tactful but firm way.

00;46;37;25 - 00;46;45;09
Unknown
So like, if you're in a good headspace, you can try that. If not, just ignore it and focus on

00;46;45;09 - 00;46;48;28
Unknown
your family and your faith like the things that bring you joy in life.

00;46;48;28 - 00;46;56;24
Unknown
like in the midst of it, you I remember you got to a point where you were like, Can I just turn the comments off and like, Yeah, just be done with this.

00;46;56;24 - 00;47;03;12
Unknown
This is so annoying. And it wasn't even like that. I didn't

00;47;03;12 - 00;47;08;09
Unknown
that. I just it was just annoying. Like I wasn't.

00;47;08;09 - 00;47;10;03
Unknown
I was just like, this is just

00;47;10;03 - 00;47;18;27
Unknown
Scotty's phone is blowing up. We were going having a family. Yeah, we were going to the zoo or have a family day. I was like, I just want to go have fun.

00;47;18;27 - 00;47;22;11
Unknown
I don't want this to destroy my peace. And like,

00;47;22;11 - 00;47;38;17
Unknown
I just turn off like, we don't need to hear what they have to say. We already know what they have to say. They're just trolling and, like, trying to be rude. Yeah, and I like, I was kind of on board for a second, and then I thought about it and I was like, Well, I just feel like I want

00;47;38;17 - 00;47;40;10
Unknown
I want this to be on display.

00;47;40;10 - 00;48;03;09
Unknown
Like part of me wants to show that it's not all. Well, I, I did a, I wrote an article on my substack after this kind of detailing it called Pride Isn't All Rainbows and Butterflies just because there is like a every group has a radical side that needs to be addressed and needs to be,

00;48;03;09 - 00;48;05;06
Unknown
wheeled in what's the word real then?

00;48;05;07 - 00;48;17;11
Unknown
Real danger. Um, because again, like we were talking about earlier, if, if like the radical subset of a group is excused and if they are justified and or ignored,

00;48;17;11 - 00;48;40;05
Unknown
then more radicalism fuels their there's no check and balance to their radicalism. So I, part of me just wanted to put it on display to show that, you know, not everyone in LGBTQ view is like this, but there is a subset of people who are willing to be crazy and nasty, and we should be willing to look it in the face and say, No, that's not right.

00;48;40;05 - 00;48;40;24
Unknown
And,

00;48;40;24 - 00;49;06;14
Unknown
you should be held accountable for that. Right? And my typical approach is I just kind of avoid it. I told Skyler, like, I'm happy to do the podcast, but I do not want to be involved with running the social media because I just didn't want to deal with the trolls. Like, it's not worth my time. I get I don't have a very thick skin.

00;49;06;16 - 00;49;33;03
Unknown
Sadly, I wish I was better at letting things roll off my back, but it just gets to me sometimes. So I told them I did not want to run the Instagram so and I'm not on Twitter. And so yeah, I just kind of tried to avoid it and live in blissful ignorance. So do one more question. Sure. Okay.

00;49;33;03 - 00;49;59;16
Unknown
Um, let's see what helped you decide to be public about your sexual orientation? I know many of that struggle with similar feelings and were persuaded that it's best that no one else knows about it. Well, I think I'm really just giving them really qualified zeros, because. What are your thoughts? I just. I just came out a few minutes ago and I just I, I was a little bit surprised when you started talking.

00;49;59;16 - 00;50;13;18
Unknown
I was like, oh, where are you going to go with this? Just cracking a joke for usual. You've got the silly girl energy, silly, tired girl. That's right. Um, so for me, it's, um.

00;50;13;18 - 00;50;24;25
Unknown
I mean, it came in strides. Like I, I came out publicly the summer after we were married, um, which was a few months after we were married.

00;50;25;01 - 00;50;31;28
Unknown
We got married in March. Um, but I mean, privately, obviously, to you long before that, But,

00;50;31;28 - 00;50;35;16
Unknown
and I kind of do have some regrets because I,

00;50;35;16 - 00;50;53;05
Unknown
I just had like, this sudden urge to just want to just rip the Band-Aid off. And so there are actually some close family members and friends that I had not told, um, that I ended up telling, I think the day before I was all just kind of publicly passed.

00;50;53;07 - 00;51;01;22
Unknown
So I kind of feel bad about that because I wish I would have opened up to my close family members and friends a little bit sooner before I went public.

00;51;01;22 - 00;51;14;01
Unknown
just because I think I owed it to them because they're family. And so I do regret that. But again, I just had this, I don't know, urge just, I just wanted to rip it off like a Band-Aid.

00;51;14;01 - 00;51;17;15
Unknown
And, and once we had, like, told everyone that we

00;51;17;15 - 00;51;31;07
Unknown
both of us like that we were close to and we felt like we wanted them to know. We just it just happened really fast. And so I was like, well, I feel ready to do it. Like, yeah, let's just post it. And so we posted it and it just all happened so fast now.

00;51;31;07 - 00;51;54;09
Unknown
And I really didn't ever feel like I wanted to be as public as I am right now and as vocal. Um, I just like I posted on Facebook just to, to share that with like, people in my circles. Um, but yeah, I've, I've talked a little bit before about how I just kind of one day had

00;51;54;09 - 00;52;00;26
Unknown
the idea of starting a podcast, even though I never really liked being in the spotlight or

00;52;00;26 - 00;52;11;05
Unknown
didn't feel like I was good at expressing my thoughts and feelings and it was kind of just I kind of thrust myself into,

00;52;11;05 - 00;52;17;16
Unknown
a situation where I had to, like I was forced to work on all of these insecurities that I

00;52;17;16 - 00;52;31;26
Unknown
had. Yeah. And I feel like at every step, this is not to, like, degrade Skyler in any way, but I feel like at every step, both of us like, did it kind of begrudgingly, but knowing like

00;52;31;26 - 00;52;42;10
Unknown
it was right, like I even knew coming on the podcast was begrudgingly. Yeah, And that's not because I don't enjoy being here, but it's just putting myself out there.

00;52;42;10 - 00;53;07;08
Unknown
I don't like to do that very much. And yeah, so hates every single one of you. Yeah, I hate all of my listeners. Your listeners, huh? Yeah, they're here for me. Skyler. Okay. I thought you knew that. I should know. They're my friends. Oh, okay. They like me. Jeez, that's as good a time as any. And today, I think.

00;53;07;08 - 00;53;13;15
Unknown
Hey, let's start a hashtag. Amanda's followers. Hashtag,

00;53;13;15 - 00;53;36;21
Unknown
hashtag. Like I'm only here for Amanda. That's a little wordy. I'm only here for Amanda. I'm keeping it. Okay, everybody. All right, let's see if I get some traction. Follow on that follow up on that returning report. Well, anyway, follow us on social media, if you could leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts.

00;53;36;21 - 00;53;55;11
Unknown
Spotify tag. I'm only here for Amanda. Literally appreciate it. Otherwise, Media Review guys, only me leave a Amanda specific review. I'm going to regret this podcast in the morning. I hope so. Anyway, we will see you in the next one.