Please Don't Be My Ally - Allies vs. Advocates for Christ

On today’s episode, how do we wish church members would handle LGBTQ issues within the church? 

What does being an "ally" mean, and is there a better alternative to that term?

Why do so many adopt a relativistic approach to morality when dealing with LGBTQ issues? And how can we combat that approach? 

We’ll also be taking questions at the end.

On this podcast, we are faith-affirming first. This means before anything else, we affirm and support the doctrine of Jesus Christ as found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review.

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Transcript

On today's episode, how do we wish church members would handle LGBTQ issues within the church?

00;01;49;03 - 00;01;54;16
Unknown
Why do so many adopt a relativistic approach to morality when dealing with LGBTQ issues?

00;01;54;16 - 00;01;58;17
Unknown
And how can we combat that approach? We'll also be taking questions at the end.

00;01;58;17 - 00;02;01;26
Unknown
All that and more on today's episode of Sit Down with Sky and Amanda.

00;02;07;11 - 00;02;09;22
Unknown
Don't make fun of how I read that.

00;02;09;22 - 00;02;10;16
Unknown
I did it.

00;02;10;16 - 00;02;32;00
Unknown
They did Barnes and Noble wrong. In this note, in case you're wondering. Well, way to skip to get to the end. How about a spoiler alert there? Sorry. So, anyway, to start off, we have some announcements. Um, my audio book is finally out. After so long, I feel like I.

00;02;32;00 - 00;02;34;08
Unknown
Yeah. You've had so many episodes where I was like,

00;02;34;08 - 00;02;50;21
Unknown
it's almost out. Your book came out and. What, June? Yeah, the audiobook is two months. Yeah. You got your tech into the microphone. Sorry. I just want to look at you when I'm talking to you. I guess that's nice. Yeah. Let's do this the way that. Yeah, Just humans talk to each other.

00;02;50;23 - 00;02;57;11
Unknown
It is how humans talk. They look at each other. I no longer think you are a humanoid robot.

00;02;57;11 - 00;03;14;16
Unknown
Um, yeah. So it's available on Spotify, on Scribd. There's another one. Google Books or Barnes and Noble spelled incorrectly. I thought that I've always heard Scriabin, I've seen seen Scribd, I've always said it scribbled in my head and I don't know why.

00;03;14;16 - 00;03;30;03
Unknown
Like Scribd makes so much sense, but Scribd without an E. Maybe that's why. Um, but yeah, it's not available on Audible on Amazon as of yet. We're still working on that. Um, I don't, I don't really know the ins and outs, but for some reason Amazon

00;03;30;03 - 00;03;40;03
Unknown
is being difficult, so we're still working on that, but it's available on all those other platforms and I will be doing a giveaway for,

00;03;40;03 - 00;03;42;06
Unknown
three downloads for my audio book.

00;03;42;09 - 00;03;43;12
Unknown
So keep an eye out

00;03;43;12 - 00;03;46;04
Unknown
for that on social media. You didn't even know about that.

00;03;46;04 - 00;03;57;10
Unknown
We can help that surprised look on your face over there. Didn't even know that was a possibility like that. That was feasible. Wow. That is so great. I learn something new every day. Every day.

00;03;57;10 - 00;04;02;14
Unknown
Um. Okay, so today, yeah, we're talking about, um.

00;04;02;16 - 00;04;07;21
Unknown
We just have a lot of times church members will approach us or message us

00;04;07;21 - 00;04;11;14
Unknown
and ask, What's the asking or what can I do,

00;04;11;14 - 00;04;13;10
Unknown
What can I do? Basically, like

00;04;13;10 - 00;04;15;11
Unknown
regarding this issue, what can I do to help

00;04;15;11 - 00;04;21;14
Unknown
those who identify as LGBTQ feel welcome while also holding on to the doctrine?

00;04;21;14 - 00;04;25;26
Unknown
a lot of them, I think, just feel helpless, like they want to do something,

00;04;25;26 - 00;04;50;26
Unknown
Which is, I think, commendable. But I don't really know how or what or why, who, when, where and why not just you that out. I'm not carrying that out in the sky. We're talking about this earlier and it's kind of just seems like it's our generation still can't get over the same thing. I just realized that was from Spike.

00;04;50;26 - 00;04;54;20
Unknown
It was like it took me a second. Go on.

00;04;54;20 - 00;05;19;20
Unknown
Anyways, you're talking about earlier how this is kind of like our generation's thing is learning how to like, balance, balance the these two ideas that seem to contradict each other. Well, I think they seem to contradict just because our generation is so bad at not seeing it that way.

00;05;19;20 - 00;05;36;17
Unknown
That is just like that's where our mind goes, is that in order to love someone, you have to agree with them on X, y, z, or and um, or you're being judgmental. Like that sort of idea is so ingrained in us. It's so like,

00;05;36;17 - 00;05;47;04
Unknown
fascinating to me because I, I mean, I spend so much time thinking about and talking about these things that are so apparent to me that that's not the case and that we can have this balance.

00;05;47;07 - 00;06;06;04
Unknown
But it's such, it seems like such a yeah, like such a foible of our generation. Well, I think I think our generation views judgment as like different than what the prophets intended it to be or what how they would view it. I think

00;06;06;04 - 00;06;17;07
Unknown
we it's okay to make judgments about decisions that are made and say, hey, that isn't in line with the gospel, that's a judgment, but we're not judging the person.

00;06;17;11 - 00;06;22;19
Unknown
Yeah, you know, we're not saying, Oh, that choice is like the next step.

00;06;22;19 - 00;06;34;28
Unknown
It's like the extension of that. So you say, Oh, that choice isn't in line with the gospel. That's okay. To say the next step where it becomes an issue is when you say therefore that person is bad.

00;06;34;29 - 00;06;45;19
Unknown
Mhm. I think that's where the issue comes in. There's nothing wrong with saying that's not in line with the gospel. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean

00;06;45;19 - 00;06;58;02
Unknown
that's part of life. Like you were given these set of commandments and rules and we have to be able to learn how to determine what's right and wrong. Yeah, but we're, we're kind of skirting around the issue a little bit.

00;06;58;03 - 00;07;24;29
Unknown
Yeah, we're kind of the what we're talking about today is the term ally. What? What that means what I think assumptions that members of the church have, um, like assumptions they have in regards to how they need to talk to or treat, um, people who identify as LGBTQ in order to be loving. Um, just kind of, yeah, assumptions what, what the term ally means.

00;07;24;29 - 00;07;53;03
Unknown
Maybe some better alternatives. Um, and yeah, so let's kind of go into that. We as I mentioned earlier, we have, you know, people who either come up to us or DM us and, and trying to show their support. Um, it's clear that they have just kind of a surface level understanding of either what we do or just kind of the LGBTQ world in general.

00;07;53;06 - 00;08;19;23
Unknown
And so the kind of, um, adopts this language I think is very, very passive. It's kind of just a like a you do you sort of attitude where they adopt moral relativism and it just becomes, yeah, I want to support everybody, like I want everyone to feel welcome. Therefore I'm, I'm going to just say, yeah, you do you and like I'll support and love you no matter what.

00;08;19;25 - 00;08;26;07
Unknown
I think it's a big overcorrection. I think in the sake of them

00;08;26;07 - 00;08;38;21
Unknown
wanting to, you know, help LGBTQ members feel loved, it's kind of like they overcorrect and they think, okay, well, I have to accept any and all choice no matter what.

00;08;38;21 - 00;09;11;17
Unknown
And I think it's good like Latter day Saint members who maybe just kind of like, don't always have such like haven't really thought much about LGBTQ issues and like the effects of, you know, this sort of moral relativism when it comes to LGBTQ members or maybe they just like kind of are more libertarian in their view of life in general, and they just kind of don't want to or don't really care to

00;09;11;17 - 00;09;44;01
Unknown
what other people do and just kind of don't want to get involved. Yeah, I I'm sure it's a lot of that. And there's kind of two groups that we're talking about here. There's this group who are more more like the surface level where they may propagate ideas that the more like activist wing will promote, but they'll do so kind of unwillingly or unwilling, but like unintentionally, just engaging with the language that is used by more extreme, the more extreme side.

00;09;44;02 - 00;10;11;17
Unknown
So they'll I mean, they'll they'll adopt the term ally, which I think has some baggage to it, some limitations. There's kind of an understanding of what that term means that most people understand. But again, if you're you're not like if you have more of just a surface level understanding, you might just use that term to mean friend or like, I want to be your advocate or I want to support you.

00;10;11;20 - 00;10;22;04
Unknown
Um, and let me just say something really fast. And I think sometimes it's, it's well intentioned, but I think it comes sometimes too from

00;10;22;04 - 00;10;45;01
Unknown
not trying to figure out the most diplomatic way to say this or not wanting to. It's take some real work to really understand the full range of experiences of LGBTQ members within the church and then be able to make sense of that in the context of the gospel.

00;10;45;05 - 00;11;02;28
Unknown
And instead of just saying, Oh, you do you like that, I feel like that's kind of a cop out. Like, that's kind of like, Oh, well, I don't want to have to do the work. Like, it's really hard to understand this whole concept and where LGBTQ members fit in and and it's just too much for me to handle right now.

00;11;02;28 - 00;11;37;17
Unknown
And you've got to give people a little bit of grace. You know, maybe they're they don't have the mental capacity to to deal with something like this and to really work through the complex feelings that may come up. And so I don't want to say it's a cop out or like it's just laziness. But I think sometimes either due to our own laziness or due to the fact that we just are unable at that time to really just want to avoid conflict and yeah, avoid conflict, not have to really dig in and, and understand this concept and just say it's too much for me to think about.

00;11;37;17 - 00;12;11;12
Unknown
So you do you Yeah. And I think that it's a pretty common, um, like a pretty common dynamic to see from members of the church is, is especially in our generation I think is those who um, yeah. Who are more kindhearted by nature are just again don't want to ruffle feathers, don't want to make make this community that um, has definitely been through a lot like we we have struggles and and things that we face.

00;12;11;12 - 00;12;27;22
Unknown
But I think in pop culture LGBTQ people are viewed as like such victims that I think a lot of members of the church find it cruel to have anything to say beyond just, uh, you do or like, do what makes you happy.

00;12;27;22 - 00;12;42;14
Unknown
Talking about the, the doctrine of eternal families a lot of times becomes really difficult or really, um, taboo, I think for, for members of the church who Yeah, just one.

00;12;42;17 - 00;13;06;02
Unknown
I mean, a lot of times comes from a good place of just I just want everyone to be happy and I don't want to, like, make anyone feel bad. And I completely understand having that inclination. But we still have to stand for truth and and uphold these ideals. Because if it does just become like a you do you and it doesn't truly matter, then we're no different than the world.

00;13;06;04 - 00;13;25;28
Unknown
Like we have standards, God has commandments, we have the tree of life and the great and spacious building. And, um, we want to be able to reach those either lost in the darkness or venturing to the great and spacious building. But we don't need to annex the two together as a solution. Like

00;13;25;28 - 00;13;40;11
Unknown
there's going to be some sort of separation in our ideas and tactics of the world, not because we hate people, but just because the world has a tendency to drift away from truth, away from God.

00;13;40;11 - 00;14;02;20
Unknown
And so, again, we have to find that balance of recognizing we're going to have differences. We're going to have different ways of approaching things, but we can talk about those things and have frank conversations while still respecting each other. So there's kind of that more surface level, um, uh, member of the church, like with a surface level understanding of these issues.

00;14;02;23 - 00;14;24;15
Unknown
And then there are those who are, are more like in the activist side of things, who it does become a very us versus them mentality. And they do have very clear goals and things that they think should change and have no problem talking about how our leaders are wrong and behind the times. And we need to like push them in the right direction.

00;14;24;22 - 00;14;43;29
Unknown
So there is back that side of it as well. And on that side there are it becomes less about more relativism for them. Granted, there are still hints of it because that's just kind of part of it's all kind of baked into it, but it's more about they have their own views of what's right and what's wrong. Mm hmm.

00;14;44;01 - 00;14;51;02
Unknown
And anything that goes against it, they're going to, you know, advocate again. I mean, advocating. It's very much

00;14;51;02 - 00;15;03;15
Unknown
they have I got I got lost in my own sentence there just and they just gave up the defeat. And your voice is that most of my sentences go but whatever.

00;15;03;15 - 00;15;07;16
Unknown
But no, they they, they have their version of missionary work.

00;15;07;16 - 00;15;34;21
Unknown
And it is very much like you said, they, they kind of in their in their words, say things like you do you and like that sort of moral moral relativism sort of idea like they in there was sort of looking for in their dialog. And there is a better word, I don't know gosh, I could help your idea to you like a struggling little discourse.

00;15;34;21 - 00;16;02;06
Unknown
I don't know. Like you were there am I don't know. It just felt felt right. Okay. I'm a lion, not a sheep. I whenever I see people with those shirts, have you seen those shirts or. It's like a lion not know. What is it about lion? Not I am lion. Not a I don't know. I don't know. It's like supposed to be like I am a leader, not a follower.

00;16;02;09 - 00;16;32;13
Unknown
I'm always like, part of me is like, yeah, that's awesome. And then the other part of me rolls my it's a little dramatic. Anyway, sidebar. Oh. Um, yeah. So they like, they have in their word, in their, in what they say it is kind of like a, there's, there's a few listeners out there like I know the word and they're saying it and yelling at their you about you headphones.

00;16;32;15 - 00;17;00;10
Unknown
So they have that sort of idea but it is a very like they have an idea of what is right and wrong. They have their own sense like it is kind of a religion in in some senses. Right. And but yeah, it's like painted over with a brush of you. Do you. But it's kind of a you do you unless you disagree with this sort of thing it's like it's like I found it interesting in a lot of our interactions.

00;17;00;10 - 00;17;23;10
Unknown
I mean, I'm not, I, I take a back seat sort of to a lot of the social media because it's just not worth my time and effort. You hear that, everyone. You are not worth your time. No, the it's not worth it to me to have to deal with the drama. The drama. It's too much for me to handle.

00;17;23;10 - 00;17;39;19
Unknown
Maybe that's a better way of saying very heavy second guess or I said things, but yeah, now you got me. I lost. Sorry. Know what I was going to say is I want you to take a back seat. I take a back seat because drama is too much. But

00;17;39;19 - 00;18;00;18
Unknown
it's very interesting to me how much hatred and vitriol we get for our marriage or for some of the things that we say from people who and it's funny to me because they kind of almost contradict themselves in a lot of what they say, like they'll say in one thing, like, who am I to say?

00;18;00;18 - 00;18;20;23
Unknown
Like, that's great that Schuyler has this. But but I think it's great that Schuyler's happy and in a mixed orientation marriage. But and then they go on and to essentially contradict themselves and say that we've done some egregious thing in getting married. And so it's very interesting to me to see that kind of contradiction.

00;18;20;23 - 00;18;31;01
Unknown
And kind of the most common common retort I'll get from people is they'll say, That's great that this works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

00;18;31;03 - 00;18;56;12
Unknown
And there's like some truth to that regarding mixed orientation marriages, like mixed orientation marriages are kind of a mixed bag. And like, you have to go into them very honestly and in a healthy way. Like all of that is true. And not everyone is in a situation where they are ready for something like that. That is true. But the the gospel is for everyone.

00;18;56;15 - 00;18;58;26
Unknown
And that's kind of

00;18;58;26 - 00;19;21;11
Unknown
it just floors me how often that comes from members of the church, active or not, that will make the claim that the gospel maybe isn't for everyone, but it's just so backward to me because of like when we truly understand what the gospel is. It's not just another philosophy out there. It's not just like an idea.

00;19;21;14 - 00;19;49;28
Unknown
It is an understanding of the that we have the Lord's kingdom like access to the Lord's kingdom on Earth, and we are building something and we are inviting all to come on to Christ. Like that is our mission. Not everyone is going to accept that. I get that. Not everyone is going to choose that. But everyone, no matter who you are, would be better off accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and and living by its principles,

00;19;49;28 - 00;19;56;28
Unknown
which is why, instead of being allies, we should be.

00;19;57;00 - 00;20;19;11
Unknown
You see what I did there for for those who can't see us here, which is for everyone. Forget I forget. I forget the I very dramatically held my hand out for Schuyler to finish the sentence. And then I didn't because I was too distracted. Yeah. So that that is kind of the tendency of those who use the term ally.

00;20;19;11 - 00;20;38;06
Unknown
And I think ally it's I mean, I think a lot of people use it in different ways, but generally speaking, I think it communicates a lot of a lot of things that those who use it may not understand. And so I think a better term, yeah, it would be an advocate for Christ

00;20;38;06 - 00;20;49;17
Unknown
like I would I would prefer having somebody who is going to point me to Christ and help me to live my covenants rather than someone who's just going to cheer on whatever decision I decide to make.

00;20;49;19 - 00;21;15;21
Unknown
Because if I wanted that like I could, I could turn to social media, I could find influencers or people to tell me that I am perfect, exactly how I am, and I have no obligation to change and to better myself and all of those things. So if I wanted that, that's where I'd turn. But I want advocates for Christ to join me in inviting others to make and keep covenants and helping me to live mine.

00;21;15;21 - 00;21;36;28
Unknown
And so I think so we just have like a list here of, of, of character traits that I think classifies people as advocates for Christ. And why I think that is a better term to use. I'm having a hard time. The only drawback to doing our little we do like a little powwow before and kind of like kind of have the podcast for records before.

00;21;36;28 - 00;21;55;03
Unknown
But now I'm having a hard time remembering if I said all the things that we can remember. If I said the things in the podcast, start saying it. And if we if you already said, I'll throw something at you, or you could just like something, tell me Heavy Redi-go maybe just tell me about the better. Let's just see how it goes.

00;21;55;09 - 00;22;18;24
Unknown
Oh my goodness. I was kind of scared now. Yeah. Did you have something to say? Is that why you said that? I mean, I had remnants of something that I wanted to say. Okay, But I don't remember really what it was. So I continue that. Um, just kind of the idea that, like, yeah, maybe you keep talking and think about it.

00;22;18;26 - 00;22;45;15
Unknown
So for, for advocates of Christ, I think their primary concern is upholding gospel truth. That's kind of their starting position. And they do so because they understand the why of the doctrine. It's not just like a need to be right just for the sake of being right, but we uphold the gospel truths because they help people. Um, it's motivated by love, right?

00;22;45;15 - 00;22;50;17
Unknown
I kind of remembered what I was thinking of. It's kind of I don't know why,

00;22;50;17 - 00;23;10;17
Unknown
but in our society nowadays, we've become obsessed with the idea of validation. And I understand validating people's emotions and saying, I understand why you feel that way. I'm sorry that you feel that way. There's some utility, there is some utility to it, but we don't need to validate every single choice that someone makes.

00;23;10;19 - 00;23;29;28
Unknown
If you think about that, that's not how that's not a healthy way to live your life as the person like as an individual making choices. Imagine if you needed validation from every single person in your inner circle or even further that your decision was right. It's just not healthy. Like it's not a happy way to live. Yeah,

00;23;29;28 - 00;23;31;14
Unknown
it shouldn't be.

00;23;31;17 - 00;23;52;00
Unknown
You should be confident in the decisions that you are making and be able to say, I feel like this is the best regardless of what you. And this is not me advocating for people leaving the church, pursuing a same sex relationship. That's not at all. What I'm trying to say is any choice that we make doesn't need to be validated.

00;23;52;02 - 00;24;15;04
Unknown
Like we've become so obsessed with this validation culture that we feel like we need to validate everything. And that's just not the case. And we can still I mean, I think about it as a parent. I'm not going to validate every single choice that my toddler makes because they're not always safe, they're not always practical. She's a toddler, for crying out loud.

00;24;15;04 - 00;24;36;02
Unknown
But so I don't need to validate every choice that she makes in order to love her, because I can see the bigger picture. She's a toddler. She can only see so such a small amount of what's going on. And she doesn't have the capability to, I don't know, control her emotions, understand her emotions, make sense of this crazy world.

00;24;36;02 - 00;24;57;14
Unknown
So I see the bigger picture and I'm able to say, no, we're not going to do that for her safety, for her, the ultimate good of her and her life and X, Y, Z, you know, fill in the blank. And that's the same with God. You know, he sees the big as the bigger picture, the whole picture that we don't see.

00;24;57;16 - 00;25;24;08
Unknown
And he knows better than any of us do what is right for us. And so sometimes that will mean that we don't get to wear the minimal sweatshirt on a day that it's 95 degrees outside, which happened to me today with our daughter and so but he knows ultimately what's best for us. And I think we struggle with that in today's society and in today's culture.

00;25;24;10 - 00;25;54;02
Unknown
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It's always easy for me, like easier for me to understand relationship dynamics, comparing it to a parent child dynamic, like understanding my relationship with God, comparing it to how we parent our child, because obviously God is a perfect father, but we have some understanding of of how he operates because of because of what we do for our child, because we love them.

00;25;54;05 - 00;26;22;17
Unknown
So I think another another thing advocates for Christ are, is that they are not afraid to say that's wrong or say no, like going back to Remmy, wanting to wear her sweatshirt today when it's so hot out. You said no, but you love her and she didn't like it. She had a temper tantrum and a meltdown. And I think sometimes we as adults don't like some of the things that God tells us that we need to do.

00;26;22;19 - 00;26;45;02
Unknown
And we have our adult version of a temper tantrum. Yeah, and it's a little bit different of a dynamic when we're dealing with just someone else, like when it's getting away from the God telling us what to do. It's when we are standing or when we are echoing the commandments to other people. They're also going to lash out.

00;26;45;04 - 00;27;07;17
Unknown
And it's a little bit different of a dynamic because we don't claim to know as much as God knows. Like it's not like we know better than you do what to do with your life. It's more of a these are the principles that we understand and have been revealed to us through the prophets and the Scriptures. And we feel that these principles do apply to everyone.

00;27;07;20 - 00;27;28;00
Unknown
So, I mean, there is a little bit of like if you embrace these principles, you'll be happier, but it shouldn't come from a place of like, I am above you and I know better. It should come from a place of these are true principles and we would all be better off embracing them. I think it kind of goes back to something you were telling me.

00;27;28;00 - 00;27;49;13
Unknown
It's it's all of us against evil, against Satan and against the world. It's not you and I against this person who feels like there's no place for them in the church. That's not what we're trying to say. It's more of a we are all trying to get back to our father in heaven. And these are the principles we've all been taught.

00;27;49;13 - 00;28;17;01
Unknown
It's more like a kinship sort of way to approach this whole topic. Yeah, yeah, it very much is us against evil and sometimes other people or even we are on the side of evil if we're either ignorant or malicious or whatever it may be. But it is important to understand. Preston was always fond of quoting The Hunger Games.

00;28;17;03 - 00;28;39;20
Unknown
Remember who the real enemy is is kind of the idea that, like in Hunger Games, there, they're fighting the evil capital. And then but there's also some infighting that happens. And so something that the characters repeat to each other is remember who the real enemy is. It's the capital, it's the evil, it's evil. And we should remember that.

00;28;39;20 - 00;29;07;14
Unknown
Yeah, we will have altercations, not not physical like we will we will have interactions or fights with other people. Um, but boiled down, it is evil. That is the real enemy, right? And so it's helpful to recognize that just like truth as a third party, that we can, we can observe rather than come up with for ourselves. Evil is independent of us.

00;29;07;17 - 00;29;30;25
Unknown
Yes, evil is also that same way. It's that it's a third party. It's something that we can observe and and sometimes people embrace or engage with. But I think it's helpful to separate not not to, like, justify evil that people do or not to say that there aren't evil people. Of course there are. But again, I think it's just helpful to separate it in that way.

00;29;30;27 - 00;30;00;05
Unknown
Another go ahead. No, I was just going to move on to the next point. But you were doing it to another trait I think advocates for Christ have, as they you can really just feel the love of their advocacy, like just feel the love behind their message. They make you want to be a better person. They will inevitably have enemies, but also a lot of people that respect them like they are polarizing because evil doesn't like good.

00;30;00;07 - 00;30;24;28
Unknown
So they're going to have enemies. But also just a lot of people respect them. And I think speaking of precedent, I always think President and his wife, Karen are are very much those type of people who you just want to be a better person when you're with them. But they are very like Frank and very, um, sometimes blunt about what they say, but in the kindest way possible.

00;30;24;28 - 00;30;53;15
Unknown
Such a kind way. Like you don't feel any sort of judgment or like, animosity, Like they're not judging you, they're just stating truths. Yeah, Bluntly, yeah. And I just compare that to people like on the other side where it's they're more of like a nice but there's no goodness behind them. Um, I was watching Spider-Man today. I like having movies on in the background when I'm editing videos.

00;30;53;20 - 00;31;15;08
Unknown
Um, but yeah, I was watching Spider-Man. What is it? Far from home? I think the second one, I think with the one with Jake Gyllenhaal and Mysterious Mysterio, So he Mysterio is a character. Spoiler alert. If you haven't seen the movie, it's not for long. It's been a while. So it's your own fault If you haven't seen it, get over it.

00;31;15;11 - 00;31;39;17
Unknown
But yeah, the the villain in the story starts off as what you think is a good character That's like a the new father figure to Spider-Man After Iron Man dies, another spoiler now one. If you didn't know that, then you're really out of it. But anyway, he he starts off as like a character that you think is good and he's like a father figure to Peter Parker.

00;31;39;19 - 00;31;57;11
Unknown
And he has he's like a very nice person. But you can just kind of tell even like the first time I watched it when I didn't know he was the bad guy, you could just kind of tell. And it's probably like an acting technique that they did or something, but you just tell that he that there is something off about him.

00;31;57;11 - 00;32;29;00
Unknown
Even though he was nice in his presentation, he just kind of like scenes. Disney just kind of rubs you the wrong way and yeah, disingenuous. And then obviously it's revealed that he's actually the bad guy. And so it's just kind of a reminder that as we've talked about in previous episodes, that nice isn't always good. Nice is kind of a surface level like character trait that isn't, Yeah, good or bad, you can be bad and nice and you can also be good and nice.

00;32;29;00 - 00;32;53;05
Unknown
Yeah, like you can be rooted in truth or rooted in evil and still be nice because it's more of just a presentation. Yeah, like if you're nice, it's just how you present yourself. But I think kindness is more of a deeper, like rooted in wanting the best for people sort of thing. Um, yeah, I think just sort of last character trait here for advocates of Christ for Christ.

00;32;53;05 - 00;33;18;16
Unknown
Um, I guess we already went over this. They, they understand that it's us against evil not, not, not always just in us versus them. Like we're all imperfect. We're all on this journey of life together. But we, we have a common, common enemy, um, that we should remember. And it is just evil. And we should fight back against evil ideas and evil people and all of that.

00;33;18;16 - 00;33;48;22
Unknown
But remember that I think most people want what's best for everyone. Like we all I think most people have good intentions, if not selfish at times, but, um, sometimes good intentions can lead to really bad outcomes. So just remembering all of that, um, anything else before we go to questions? Nope. Okay, let's find some questions here. Um. Oh, I forgot to mention at the beginning we had kind of an unofficial sabbatical from the podcast.

00;33;48;23 - 00;34;08;01
Unknown
Yes, we did. Because the first time which, which, the last time we tried to record, Remi would not go to sleep, and so we couldn't. And then life kind of just happened and I was lost. Forgot of a hard month because, yeah, the month our son was born and passed away. So I also, you know, not this month, but like the anniversary, right?

00;34;08;01 - 00;34;33;11
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, it was the anniversary. Sorry. Yeah. So four year anniversary anyway, so life happened and, um, we're going to kind of re assess things, so we're going to be just doing one episode per month now, um, and moving forward and. Yeah, continue how we've been going, but just a little bit less frequent. So few questions here. Um, this is from she shares goodness on Instagram.

00;34;33;11 - 00;35;18;05
Unknown
Great account if you are not following her, why do you saints forget Temple Ceiling's temple ceiling includes quote multiply and replenish and eternal prosperous posterity. It was a struggle. That was a struggle. That is a very interesting question. Yeah, it does include that. I like never really thought of it in in this context. It is it's part of the Yeah temple covenant and I think recently didn't tember write an article and member on beacon as I say ministry yes account is about how the fullness of how did he word it like the fullness of joy is in multiplying and replenishing.

00;35;18;05 - 00;35;41;16
Unknown
Yeah and I mean that's coming from two people who have dealt with infertility and child loss. And we recognize how hard it is talking about you and I. Yeah. Oh, I was like, temporary, his wife. And so, yeah, like, we understand how hard it is to want something so bad and not be able to get it. So that's not what we're talking about.

00;35;41;18 - 00;36;08;04
Unknown
But more of just upholding the ideal like we've talked about before, really having and rearing children is the the pinnacle of joy in life. And it's okay to say that that is the the ultimate path to real joy. Like your life isn't going to be necessarily miserable if you don't have children and right, you're not lesser or anything like that, but it is the best of the best and something we should all strive toward.

00;36;08;09 - 00;36;28;22
Unknown
Right. And this is us saying, I mean, in fact, we kind of have talked about this a lot. I'm not saying like it's different. It's different when it's your child and your spouse's child. And not to say that adoption isn't great or, you know, you know, every you know, what I'm trying to say, but there's all of the exceptions.

00;36;28;22 - 00;36;56;06
Unknown
But the rule is the rule is that is the pinnacle of happiness and joy in life. And it's different because, you know, a gay couple could technically go through all the fertility treatments, have a biological child of their own, but not a biological logical child of their partner, because obviously, that's not how it works. You have to have an egg and sperm in case anyone here hasn't gone to sex ed.

00;36;56;08 - 00;37;24;00
Unknown
But that's I'm just trying to. Okay, I'm beating the doors. I'm. I'm done. It's over a great action. Very. I'm energetically just tapping it. Barely. Next question. Do you think people who say they prayed about it and God said a gay relationship is the right thing for them, are telling the truth? I think it's we we may have talked about this before or I talk about this in my book a little bit.

00;37;24;03 - 00;38;09;01
Unknown
I think it's really easy to attribute good feelings to the spirit. So we're taught that the spirit speaks to us through our feelings all the time or like our intuition or things that we can't quantify. And so when, you know, a gay member of the church makes the decision to, I guess, relieve themself of the the burden of of not pursuing a same sex relationship, they get rid of that idea and then they pursue a same sex relationship that's naturally going to cause some amount of euphoria or joy even or relief or relief.

00;38;09;01 - 00;38;31;03
Unknown
Yeah. And I think it's easy to attribute that sort of that that feeling, that good feeling to the spirit telling you that what you're doing is right and not to again, go so hard on this analogy here, But I mean, I probably would have my father would have been so happy if I let her wear the sweatshirt, you know, she would've been so happy about it.

00;38;31;03 - 00;38;51;06
Unknown
But you were miserable later down the road, Right. And I think it's kind of the same concept. You know, you may feel great about it up front, and maybe for the rest of your life you might feel fine. But there may there will come a time when you're you're reckoning your day of reckoning. Yeah. Yeah. That's what happened.

00;38;51;06 - 00;38;54;18
Unknown
I think I wrote about this recently. Like, I think we sometimes

00;38;54;18 - 00;39;06;13
Unknown
when we choose the harder choice rather than the easy one, I think we sometimes paint the wrong choice as like nothing but misery and less woe.

00;39;06;15 - 00;39;36;08
Unknown
But in reality that's that sort of day of reckoning is oftentimes delayed to where we may find happiness in the wrong choice. And we might find, yeah, joy even. Um, but, but that that day of reckoning does come and it again is often delayed. But it's not that like the wrong choice brings immediate and lasting misery, and the right choice brings ultimate joy forever.

00;39;36;08 - 00;39;55;04
Unknown
Like there is some gray there. And I think a lot of people use that to justify the wrong choice or to lament the right choice. Yeah. So let's see what other questions we have here. How many stuffed animals do you own? I hate this app because I never know if these are real questions. I don't think that one was.

00;39;55;04 - 00;40;24;21
Unknown
Let's see, how do you I guess this is for me. Um, and this from Alex. Um, he didn't want to be anonymous. So how do you handle attractions to men while being married? Um, I, I always answer this just kind of how I would expect any other married man to handle this. Because regardless of your sexuality, you're going to have attractions to if you're straight to other women when you're married or other men.

00;40;24;25 - 00;41;01;28
Unknown
And I, I just treat it like I acknowledge it. Um, but I remember to move on. Yeah, I Remember that I have a commitment to Amanda, and I'm happy with her. And we have this life together. And like, all of these, I have all of these tangible reasons not to ruminate on any attractions, Um, because also it just would make me miserable, like having to live that sort of double life of, like, constantly lusting after guys while being married.

00;41;01;28 - 00;41;17;19
Unknown
Like, it just sounds miserable. It kind of goes back to the I mean, you've talked about this and you talk about this in your book, and I've you've talked to me about this, about how you had to take your foot out of the door of being with a man. Yeah. And I think that's part of it is, yeah.

00;41;17;20 - 00;41;38;20
Unknown
You're attracted like guys will walk by and you'll be attracted to them, but you're not going to act on it. You're not going to ruminate on it. You just say, okay, yeah, you're literally not going to be a part of my life and I'm not going to give you any extra space in my brain. So yes. Yeah. Mean, it's just it's our choice how we respond to different stimuli in our life.

00;41;38;20 - 00;42;01;22
Unknown
Like, whatever it is, we have the choice to to choose. We have the choice to choose. We we have the choice to decide how we're going to respond. You just will opt out to decide. And it didn't change the the choice to decide how we're going to choose, what we're going to decide to do. You down? I'm not.

00;42;01;23 - 00;42;29;12
Unknown
Yeah. Um, let's maybe do one more. Where do they go? In box. There we go. Let's see. What is the purpose of your podcast? A little, little passive aggressive. Just kidding. Um, if I had to sum it up, I. I don't know. I think it's meant to be like, uh, a beacon of hope for members of the church who are wanting to find this balance that we've been talking about.

00;42;29;13 - 00;42;56;02
Unknown
Um, also to other gay same sex attracted Latter-Day Saints who are wanting to live the gospel like this. Hopefully some sort of hope or roadmap or beacon of light to, um, to everyone. I don't know. I just, like, have this strong need to speak out against what I believe are bad ideas and also we talk about this a lot there.

00;42;56;02 - 00;43;22;21
Unknown
When we were dating, there were not a ton of resources there like in the past. I mean, we've been married five years. You can't I mean, probably six years ago now. So there were not very many resources at that time. So we kind of felt a little bit lost. Yeah. So just kind of like the only stories you heard were horror stories and about people leaving the church and makes orientation marriages that just like crumble and go down in a ball of flames.

00;43;22;21 - 00;43;43;24
Unknown
And that's all we ever heard of, really. So it just kind of to be a voice to people who say, hi, we're we're here, we're happy. Yeah, it's possible. Yeah. If that's what you feel called to and what you want for your life. Yeah. So that's. Yeah. How I would sum that up. Um, anything else before we wrap up here?

00;43;43;24 - 00;44;08;02
Unknown
No. Okay, well, if you haven't already, um, you can purchase my book or audiobook now, um, on Amazon, not the audiobook, but the actual book is on Amazon. The audiobook is on all those other platforms. Follow us on social media if you haven't already. And I also post on my substack every now and then. Um, so yeah, other than that, we will see you in the next one.

00;47;18;27 - 00;47;23;10
Unknown
But I don't really know how or what or why,

00;47;23;10 - 00;47;25;07
Unknown
who, when, where and why

00;47;25;07 - 00;47;29;14
Unknown
not just you that out. I'm not carrying that out in

00;47;29;14 - 00;47;31;07
Unknown
I just realized that was from Spike.

00;47;31;07 - 00;47;35;01
Unknown
It was like it took me a second. Go on.

00;47;51;25 - 00;48;12;24
Unknown
it's very interesting to me how much hatred and vitriol we get for our marriage or for some of the things that we say from people who and it's funny to me because they kind of almost contradict themselves in a lot of what they say, like they'll say in one thing, like, who am I to say?

00;48;12;24 - 00;48;32;29
Unknown
Like, that's great that Schuyler has this. But but I think it's great that Schuyler's happy and in a mixed orientation marriage. But and then they go on and to essentially contradict themselves and say that we've done some egregious thing in getting married. And so it's very interesting to me to see that kind of contradiction.

00;49;03;10 - 00;49;14;13
Unknown
we it's okay to make judgments about decisions that are made and say, hey, that isn't in line with the gospel, that's a judgment, but we're not judging the person.

00;49;14;17 - 00;49;19;25
Unknown
Yeah, you know, we're not saying, Oh, that choice is like the next step.

00;49;20;04 - 00;49;32;13
Unknown
It's like the extension of that. So you say, Oh, that choice isn't in line with the gospel. That's okay. To say the next step where it becomes an issue is when you say therefore that person is bad.

00;49;32;14 - 00;49;43;04
Unknown
Mhm. I think that's where the issue comes in. There's nothing wrong with saying that's not in line with the gospel. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean

00;49;50;01 - 00;50;02;15
Unknown
wanting to, you know, help LGBTQ members feel loved, it's kind of like they overcorrect and they think, okay, well, I have to accept any and all choice no matter what.

00;50;10;01 - 00;50;26;11
Unknown
But I think in pop culture LGBTQ people are viewed as like such victims that I think a lot of members of the church find it cruel to have anything to say beyond just, uh, you do or like, do what makes you happy.

00;50;26;16 - 00;50;41;08
Unknown
Talking about the, the doctrine of eternal families a lot of times becomes really difficult or really, um, taboo, I think for, for members of the church who Yeah, just one.

00;50;41;11 - 00;51;04;26
Unknown
I mean, a lot of times comes from a good place of just I just want everyone to be happy and I don't want to, like, make anyone feel bad. And I completely understand having that inclination. But we still have to stand for truth and and uphold these ideals. Because if it does just become like a you do you and it doesn't truly matter, then we're no different than the world.

00;51;04;28 - 00;51;24;22
Unknown
Like we have standards, God has commandments, we have the tree of life and the great and spacious building. And, um, we want to be able to reach those either lost in the darkness or venturing to the great and spacious building. But we don't need to annex the two together as a solution. Like

00;52;41;08 - 00;53;03;23
Unknown
it just floors me how often that comes from members of the church, active or not, that will make the claim that the gospel maybe isn't for everyone, but it's just so backward to me because of like when we truly understand what the gospel is. It's not just another philosophy out there. It's not just like an idea.

00;53;03;26 - 00;53;32;10
Unknown
It is an understanding of the that we have the Lord's kingdom like access to the Lord's kingdom on Earth, and we are building something and we are inviting all to come on to Christ. Like that is our mission. Not everyone is going to accept that. I get that. Not everyone is going to choose that. But everyone, no matter who you are, would be better off accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and and living by its principles,

00;53;35;12 - 00;53;46;23
Unknown
like I would I would prefer having somebody who is going to point me to Christ and help me to live my covenants rather than someone who's just going to cheer on whatever decision I decide to make.

00;53;46;25 - 00;54;12;27
Unknown
Because if I wanted that like I could, I could turn to social media, I could find influencers or people to tell me that I am perfect, exactly how I am, and I have no obligation to change and to better myself and all of those things. So if I wanted that, that's where I'd turn. But I want advocates for Christ to join me in inviting others to make and keep covenants and helping me to live mine.

00;54;14;12 - 00;54;34;10
Unknown
but in our society nowadays, we've become obsessed with the idea of validation. And I understand validating people's emotions and saying, I understand why you feel that way. I'm sorry that you feel that way. There's some utility, there is some utility to it, but we don't need to validate every single choice that someone makes.

00;54;34;12 - 00;54;53;21
Unknown
If you think about that, that's not how that's not a healthy way to live your life as the person like as an individual making choices. Imagine if you needed validation from every single person in your inner circle or even further that your decision was right. It's just not healthy. Like it's not a happy way to live. Yeah,