Systeme.io success stories

From "Unemployable" to $5 Million Online (Using "Ugly" Funnels)

• Systeme.io • Season 2 • Episode 17

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Website: https://bobdorris.com/

Bob Doris calls himself "unemployable." After being bullied as a child, he realized he could never work a normal 9-to-5 job because he couldn't stand being told what to do.

In this episode, Bob reveals how he went from making his first $500 while hitting a punching bag in his garage to generating over $5,000,000 in online sales.

He didn't do it by teaching "how to make money." He did it by dominating "weird" niches—from mixed martial arts and survival to modeling and Chinese medicine.

Bob explains why "beautiful websites don't matter" (and can actually hurt conversions), how he uses systeme.io to manage multiple business empires, and the specific "Cash Flow Comeback" strategy he used to turn a stagnant $25k/month business into a $180k/month rocket ship in just 30 days.

This is a masterclass in offer creation, niche selection, and systemization.

In this episode, you’ll discover:
✅ The "Matchbox" Rule: Why you can sell a great offer written on the back of a matchbox (but a bad offer on a beautiful site will fail).
✅ The "Cash Flow Comeback": How he tweaked the positioning of an existing business to jump from $25k to $180k in revenue in one month.
✅ Niche Domination: How to find winning products in obscure markets like grappling dummies and modeling.
✅ Why he switched: How he replaced a "house down payment" worth of expensive software with systeme.io.
✅ The "Partner Up" Strategy: Why trying to learn everything yourself is the fastest way to fail (and what to do instead).

If you think you need a mainstream niche or a fancy design to make millions, Bob is here to prove you wrong.

Send us Fan Mail

Intro and $5 million revenue

SPEAKER_01

Hi, on today's episode, we interview Bob Doris, and that is Doris with two R's, available for being contacted at bobdoris.com. In today's interview, we go back over 20 years of digital marketing, how he has grown and maximized his digital marketing funnels from niche topics such as Chinese medicine, um jujitsu and grappling and mixed martial arts, and how he has partnered with people creating over five million dollars in revenue over these 20 years. And he is going to drop some nuggets of systemization and frameworks, helping us really dive down and decipher the difference between creating a business from scratch on system.io as well as uncovering some hidden nuggets in digital marketing itself. So can't wait to dive into today's episode with Bob Doris. All right, welcome back to another episode with system.io. Today we're going to talk about some success stories with Bob Doris here as we talk about digital marketing, grappling, the you know, mixed martial arts world, which I don't know. Is there any mixed martial arts in that background, or is it just grappling? I can't wait to unpack that. So thank you for coming on and being our guest today.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Got a lot to uh lot to unpack today. So this is gonna be good. I will provide lots of value for anybody listening, I promise.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, super excited. You know, not gonna lie, I'm excited, y'all, because if y'all didn't know, I met my husband doing some jujitsu. So uh I I already want to jump right to that punch. But before we get there, can you tell us about your before system.io life, before digital marketing, what led you up to it and became that catalyst for getting your business online?

Making his first $500 online sale

SPEAKER_03

Okay, my catalyst for getting online and my catalyst for martial arts was getting bullied as a child. I got to the point where there I'm unemployable because I cannot let people tell me what to do. So you can see where the martial arts would come from, right? And then working for people, not it's not a fit. Uh so I hadn't tried to work for people forever, was miserable at it, was failing at everything. And the dream to me, many, many years ago, uh, was to work from home for myself. I thought it was an unachievable dream that only a few people could ever you know ever achieve. Now everybody works from home, but back then it was, it was, you know, it was uh, you know, that was the rainbow. So I took a chance. I was so miserable at something I was doing that my wife said, Bob, you're never gonna do that job again. Just quit and let's try something else. And I took a chance on without knowing anything about digital marketing, marketing at all, how to build a website, HTML, nothing. I threw together something that was just god awful and put video on YouTube and a bad sales page. And one day I went out to my garage, I was working out, I was hitting my punching bag, and I came in and looked, and I had made 500 bucks while I was working out. And I went, okay, I've got a new career.

Early digital product experiments

SPEAKER_01

Wow. That's awesome. Okay. So the first digital product had nothing to do with the mixed martial arts world.

SPEAKER_03

Which one was first? No, my first one actually didn't. And it was something I failed at, although I learned a lesson. I did make a few sales here and there. I was the first thing I tried was for any of you guys who are a little bit uh older, it was site build it, if you recall that. Okay, that was an early website, it was a website builder that had a philosophy and a plan all built into it. Just do what we tell you, right? And yeah, it was it's really old school. Um, but there was a lot of gems in it for sure. And I found out that I created a product that was just it was it was in a different completely different niche. I happened to be an acupuncturist trained in Chinese medicine. So I did all sorts of content about that, didn't know anything about how you know product selection or it's just terrible. But I created a little ebook about Chinese dietary principles, basically how to eat to be healthy according to Chinese you know principles. And I just threw it on my website, and every once in a while I start getting a $35 sale for this terrible little book I made. Wow. That was impressive. Then I tried something on uh tried something on eBay just to test it out. I create tried to offer a book that I hadn't written yet. I don't know if that's legal these days, but I just made a cover and put it on eBay, and somebody tried to buy it from me for $35 also.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm like, oh, there is money here. Uh and to be honest, almost everything, not quite everything, but almost everything I've ever tried has made at least a little bit of money.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. All right. And each one a stepping block, you know, just like fighting, like learning each move and moving forward with it. You mentioned HTML HTML. So did you learn a little coding too back in the day?

SPEAKER_03

A little bit. Uh no, no, I'm not gonna say I learned. I I knew enough to make

Why beautiful websites don't matter

SPEAKER_03

a terrible website, uh, which is another another lesson here. Beautiful sites don't really matter. You could write a you can make a bad offer on a beautiful site, it's not gonna sell it. Make a great offer, write it on the back of a matchbox, and you can sell.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. Okay. Well, I think that's a great transition into offers. And so talk about the transition of, you know, you learned a lot in digital marketing, you were selling all these different things, some winning, some losing. And now it's time to like go all in. And so, you know, you don't have to mention any tools if you don't want to that you were with before system.io, uh, but maybe some of the headaches that you had with software that led you to the discovery of um of system.io's simple and affordable plans.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. You know, I don't want to, I don't encourage people to try to keep, you know, the two nickel and dime things. Uh, you know, you got to spend money for sure. Um, but I was on, I've used every other software you can imagine. Uh WordPress are off ClickFunnels, um all sorts of get response, one shopping cart, active campaign. There's probably 30 or 40 different softwares I've used that over time, you know. I kind of replaced everything just by using click funnels. Uh, and I've made good money. I you had to tell your audience I've sold about five million dollars online. So there is a lot of money to be made when you get things right. So, what was the question you were asking now?

SPEAKER_01

Well,

Why he switched to systeme.io

SPEAKER_01

you you used a plethora of different tools, right? You use click funnels, you said you've made over five million, and a lot of that would that funnel marketing, right?

SPEAKER_03

And why leave that and move to system.io probably the most glaring thing is the value. System.io is the price, it's just ridiculous. Uh, one software I was using, this was this was my catalyst to move. One software I was using, after a number of years of using it, I looked and I realized I had sent them enough money, enough money for them to basically put a down payment on a small house for a piece of software. Yeah, I spent a ton of money on it. Now, again, that's why I said, hey, I made five million bucks, right? But having said that, you know, that's a lot from one person. So, yeah, the price is there, and then other things. One thing I know is that Zurillion is constantly releasing new stuff. He's upping the game all the time. Every once in a while, just yesterday I logged in and saw something in there that I didn't know existed inside of it, and that happens pretty often. I'm not in there following following what's going on in the Facebook group all that much. Uh, so I come across it just going through the going through the uh platform. But for everything it does, everything it does, it you know, the value is just is pretty astronomical. So there's really not much reason to you to leave it. And so far, I haven't found any reason to you know to even look for anything else. I mean, it's just pretty much got it. If I needed that CRM where you're taking people through the different sales cycles, I would be using that workflows. I'm a maniac with uh uh then more. I only recently found out about the uh the um sub accounts, which is for keeping your business organized for somebody who has I've worked in so many niches it's obscene, and I have all those funnels in there, and it just got confusing. Once I realized sub accounts, oh, let me move these out to sub accounts and clarity, like nobody's business.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, that's awesome. So, speaking of the sub accounts and those systems and funnels that you have, what have you moved over successfully? 100% of your business? And if so, like what what specific businesses so we can start, you know, kind of diving into your grappling buddy that you have online?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's probably not gonna be all that interesting, although I did sell it, sell a whole lot of them. I've got a lot

Success in diverse niches

SPEAKER_03

more interesting things to tell you guys about. Uh oh, good. So I moved over, yeah. I moved over uh businesses in the martial arts niche, I moved over businesses in the survival niche, I moved over businesses in the music niche. What else? Uh, I don't think I ever, I think I just got rid of the one in the uh in the health niche, Chinese medicine one. Um, and I started multiple others in women's health. Uh I'd have to go through my my dashboard to tell you all the businesses I've got there in therapy. Uh I've got a lot of them in there.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, okay. All right. I didn't even know that. And so are those branded with their personal brand or are they branded as like their own separate brand? You know, I call those spokes off of, you know, Bob. You know, is your hand in those things or are they affiliates? Like, talk to us about how how you're in so many niches.

SPEAKER_03

Uh I'm not going to encourage people to get into a lot of different niches.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It's just when you've got something, and you know, if something makes money and you know, you optimize it the best you can, it's still making money, but it may be time to add things on. So focus on one thing first. Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So uh some of it has come from meeting people who had a particular skill who, and I think this is something a lot of people should do. You have if you don't have a product, find somebody who's got something, knowledge or skill or their own product, and they become your partner. Right? So some of them are that, and then, but most cases, you know, I just okay. You have this skill, let's build out a brand, let's build out an offer. Uh, you don't know how to do something, let's give it a nice name, let's let's figure out a way to differentiate what you have, let's turn what you have, your knowledge, into a system. I'm big on that for any coaches who want to talk to me about doing that. Um, systematize your knowledge that differentiates you. Give it a nice sounding name. Now there's you know, you've differentiated yourself. There's no comparison between you price-wise or any other reason and anybody else because you have your unique system. Uh, that's a very powerful technique that a lot of people don't do. They just go, I do therapy. Um so I have a lot of that. Uh one of them in the music niche. I'm not a guitarist, but I hired a guitarist to create a lot of content for me and uh built out a membership site with that, and there's a you know quite a bit of strategy behind what I did there um for a different interview. Yes, I have that. I

Reaching $65k/month recurring revenue

SPEAKER_03

worked in the survival niche for quite a while. Uh, that was very good. Uh, just to motivate people, I did take that up to this model, it has changed a lot now, so don't ask me about this model anymore. But I did take it up to $65,000 a month recurring revenue.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03

Which is huge. Yeah. Um, so it does show you when you get something, uh, you know, if you get the right thing, the right offer, it's incredible what you can do.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Which is part of why I went into this in the first place, because I realized there's no way I could ever, you know, you know, do that with a nine to five or anything else. You know, it just potential makes it so worthwhile.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So let's kind of unpack those because I think this leads into those tips and tricks we were talking about earlier about nailing that offer. You know, is it is it the copywriting? Is it the graphics? Like, how do you know you have something that's working? Or if it's the music, like you said, or the health or the therapy, having those people come in and how you've made those successful to 65,000 a month,

The secret to irresistible offers

SPEAKER_01

like you have definitely created a framework or a system to help all of these become gold mines. So can you unpack that a little bit for us?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, each one's a different system. Like I said, some business models they work for a while and they no longer work due to government regulations and all sorts of other stuff. Uh but offer is everything. And I think if people could really get this through their heads, uh, it took me a long time. It's you know, copywriting is important, but like I said, if you have something, a good offer you right on the back of a matchbox, you can sell it to people. It doesn't matter. It's gotta be there, there's some ways of testing an offer. The first thing to do to test your offer is you know, basically just do this simple one. You give me X amount of dollars, I give you this. Keep it simple. Is that a no-brainer? Are people gonna salivate when they hear that, right? If not, you've got a tough road ahead of you. All the good copywriting in the world is not gonna do it, you know, and it's a hard lesson I've learned. I've spent months or years sometimes, you know, beating a dead horse, something that you know just was not gonna sell. And conversely, I've had things. My experience has been that most things will sell pretty quickly. If you just get it in front of enough of your people, uh, you'll find out whether it sells quickly. So that does speak to things like doing pre-sales before you even made the stupid thing. Try selling it like I did on eBay 20 years ago, right? Uh yeah, just pre-sell, find out if people want it. Um, okay. I when I was in the e-com world, I was testing things. There was at one point where I was testing things on Facebook a number of years ago, just you know, stupid stuff off of uh uh Alibaba or AliExpress, right? I just try something new every day. And you could tell by looking at at the numbers, things are kind of uh sale, you're kind of hanging right around, breaking even on it. You think, oh, you know, if I just stay with this long enough, and then something else you put on and through the roof within the first couple hours. You gotta work another one.

SPEAKER_01

Uh uh, how do you put your product in front of people? Do you do um paid ads or organic traffic? How because that's gonna be the question, like,

Testing offers with paid ads

SPEAKER_01

okay, how do I put my product in front of enough eyeballs to test if it's good?

SPEAKER_03

The fastest way is paid ads for sure. Uh you can you can spend months on social media and putting out YouTube and everything, YouTube videos, shorts, and get no, you know, not really get much of a feedback, and you can spend 300 bucks on paid ads and know in a couple of days whether it's gonna it's gonna sell or not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So, like you said, it's gonna cost a little money, you know, you got to spend a little bit to to earn and learn and keep growing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, now there's a common thought that you shouldn't spend money on paid ads until you have tested and perfected your offer organically and free. Well, you know, being penny wise but pound foolish. And if you if you create a good offer, if you if you can't do it and figure it out yourself, then talk to somebody like me or you or somebody who knows how to how to what a good offer is, how to help you make a good offer that has a reasonable chance of selling, and then just spend a couple hundred bucks and find out if anybody wants to buy it.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Well, let's talk about oh sorry.

SPEAKER_03

No, that's that's the first way for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Well, let's talk about those offers. We've talked about, you know, making the offers, uh, if it's good enough on the back of a matchbook, so it will sell, right? Now putting enough eyeballs on it so that you can see if it's a dud. What are these types of offers? You talked about a book, an ebook, physical book, courses, communities, uh, Canva templates. Tell tell us about the offers or the products that you can offer to make this five million dollars that you were able to do um in your digital marketing career.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, some of that has been through the martial arts niche. Uh, so I had a number of products there. I sold training gear. Um here's a here's a tip. Go for something high ticket, something big expensive. Don't try to don't

Strategy for high-ticket sales

SPEAKER_03

try to do the uh Amazon thing where you're making three dollars a piece. Uh go go for something where the price is high enough that you can't tack on an extra $150 or $200 and people don't fuck at it. It's not not an issue, right? Um so that's one type of thing. So you know, I was into the martial arts, into MMA very, very, I was one of the very early adapters when nobody in this part of the country was doing it. Uh so I spotted products that I thought people would like, and I knew it was a hot growing topic at that time back in the early, I don't know, I don't know when that was. Maybe, well, 91 is when I started, but probably early 2000s or so. Um yeah, and I just spotted, I knew there was, I knew there was gonna be huge demand there. But and I tell you, you can tell something pretty quickly. If you're if your audience isn't responding, like, you know, this is if you don't see, you know, like they're crazy about getting it, then you're gonna have a tough time.

Making money in the modeling niche

SPEAKER_03

A good example is I partnered with a fella uh in the modeling niche, right? Who would think you'd make money in the modeling niche, right?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm intrigued. I'm like modeling. Like, what are you teaching? Who are you speaking to? Like that's gotta be so neat.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna help them get signed. Basically, we're gonna teach them what they need to know. We help them get signed. So I would he was doing his part, he was coaching. Uh, he was not a marketer, I'm a marketer, right? Uh, I'm not a model by any stretch of the imagination. Uh, he had the you don't have to agree with me on that.

SPEAKER_01

No, I was hoping to think I'm like, you can, you know, there is there's a niche for that, right? Like I'm looking at my husband's MMA pictures right here, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, he's probably he's probably shredded, I'm sure. Um, yeah, so models are passionate. You want a passionate niche. I knew we had an offer before we signed anybody. I knew we had an offer when people were thanking me for getting them on sales calls with him. Yeah, it's like they're fake me profusely. Who wants to get on a sales call? Nobody, these people, thank you, thank you. I would get them, or we, he and I would get them on a uh weekly QA, and they would break down crying about their dreams to become models. That is a passionate niche that is willing to spend a few thousand bucks to get their dream.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because they have to know it, right? Like they may have that one opportunity with that one agent, and they need to be able to sell themselves in that five seconds, right? And so you really prepare.

SPEAKER_03

There's a lot of things they need to do. Yeah, there's several steps to get there. So we had created a program uh called a model accelerator, uh, which was our step-by-step program, our signature program that they can only get from us because it is a step-by-step protocol. Uh, that's what I'm talking about. You take your knowledge, you package it into something, give it a nice name, create a step-by-step program that only we could sell. Because nobody else knows.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and our we we blew up our first month, we did 15 about 15k revenue. Uh, so first month having the business really going, which is great for our first month. Uh, first month of any business.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah. So it just shows you kind of know quickly what an offer is, but you can tweak things into becoming an offer too, into becoming a better offer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And so that offer, you know, if we stick with modeling specifically. Specifically, there uh you had to have a funnel, you had to have a sales team or sales calls, you had to have your course, your signature model accelerator. So you need to know how to build a course out and a local place to have the course. Did you have coaching calls as well within that signature product? You know, like was there a website? You know, did you use any kind of social media? Like, and I'm intrigued because you keep saying, well, a strategy for the music was different, and the strategy for the modeling is this. My mind is exploding with the amount of strategies you have. Like what do you do specifically? Do you create strategies for people or do you teach them how to do this themselves? Like, I know that was a multifaceted question. I I my my my brain can't keep up with you with all these strategies.

SPEAKER_03

Well, one way you get this many strategies is you live long enough. And you start to stack them up and you see which ones work and which don't, and you you know, mix and match pieces together. Uh so yeah, what I

The cash flow comeback strategy

SPEAKER_03

do, one of the things I do is called cash flow comeback, and that's to help people to monetize existing products they have or basically old products, old assets, their product, their list, something they've got that either has died, made money at one time, or is underperforming. And my belief, well, not my belief, this is just true. I can tell you from experience, many people are sitting on something that has is very valuable, but they get in their own way. They're either trying to do it themselves, figure everything out, or they want to, they're greedy, they want to keep all the money to themselves, right? Uh good example, one fella, he you know, he had I looked at what he had, and going, you're probably losing, you know, three, four, five thousand dollars a month by not mailing this list that I could be mailing for you. And yeah, I'm gonna get back to it. And you know, four years went by where he didn't mail the list once. And he's working on a new product, working on a new product, a new course. His old course was good enough, it was absolutely fine. Uh, he's thinking, so he's too close to what he does. He's thinking, I need to create a new course, right? No, most people don't need something, they need to tweak what they already have. Uh, good

From $25k to $180k in one month

SPEAKER_03

example. One fella I helped out, I worked with, he was doing, he was succeeding wonderfully. He was doing 20 to 25k a month every month. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I looked at what he was doing, I went, boy, are you missing out on stuff. So uh we we talked and I gave him some ideas. He did have a team who was that was working for him. To his credit, he implemented everything I said. And that what we did with him, it's gonna be different with each person. What we did with him was change his positioning. That's not all that hard to do if you have experience with copywriting. You know, I just looked at his sales page on going, you're selling $25,000 a month with this copy? We could kill it once you change your copy, your positioning. Um, and we took an ever or an evergreen product and we turned it into a launch. We created that's what I'm talking about. We created a better offer with the thing he already had.

SPEAKER_01

So people that's phenomenal. The I even just shifting my mindset from like, oh, it's evergreen, it's always been evergreen, and then you shifted it to a launch, changed his positioning in the coffee. I that is phenomenal. And so, like you said, nurturing who they are and what they already have.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, he did, he did 180,000 the following month. And then, and then this bastard, yeah, he relaunched it based on what I told him. He relaunched it three, two and a half, three months later, and he was really upset he only made 90,000.

SPEAKER_01

He only made 90,000. Only that's a whole salary for someone out there listening right now. And so, wow, wow, okay. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat, I'm ready to do this. Give us some kind of framework or system that we can do with system.io today. Like, you know, give us a little golden nugget into either reviving or building one, sorry, or building something from scratch. How do you build an offer? You know, you said it's it's 90% your offer. So, how could I build something today from scratch?

SPEAKER_03

Oh boy, I've taught entire courses on just creating the offer. Uh okay. If you're starting from scratch, okay, there's a two-pronged question. If you're a beginner with system or if you're a beginner to marketing, two different things.

SPEAKER_01

Good. I like that you clarified that because I think a lot of people do need that clarification. Let's sit in that for a moment. Beginner with system, so perhaps you have marketing experience versus beginner with marketing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which one do you think is more important? Marketing knowledge?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the marketing.

SPEAKER_01

So, what how what are the three things that you think you need to be a better digital marketer? Three tips, knowledge base that someone needs to be a better digital marketer.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, I'm not even sure if that's the correct question, but but but

Essential marketing skills for beginners

SPEAKER_03

if your goal is to become a marketer, uh then yeah, building offers is the number one thing. Building offers is huge. Uh, something else I would say would be so creating offers, create and that can be just taking some asset you have and piling a bunch of other stuff on that people want. It's pretty simple to make a an offer irresistible. If the person kind of, yeah, I kind of want that, but look at all these other things I'm gonna get that I actually want. Okay, the value is just so far beyond what the price of this, I can't say no. Right? And I can only get that for 24 hours or 48 hours, so I better jump on it quickly. Okay. So doing that is one thing. Launching, I love launching, absolutely love it. Uh so launching, taking whatever you've got or what somebody else has and launching it and launching it fast, because when you do that, first of all, it's a huge influx of cash. Um, like I said, that guy went from 25 to 180,000 the following month. Uh, I've hit twice, it's not huge, but a couple times I did twenty thousand dollars in 48 hours. You know, that's pretty, yeah. And there's nothing more exciting than sitting there and hitting refresh and watching a new sale for 97 bucks coming each time you hit refresh. It's an awesome feeling.

SPEAKER_00

So doing

The power of a promotional calendar

SPEAKER_00

that.

SPEAKER_03

Uh, another one, this is huge. Have a people don't, this is probably one of the biggest overlooked things, have a promotional calendar for God's sake. Right? If you don't, then you're just selling, making offers, you know, at the when when you feel like it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, you gotta, which kind of goes back to probably the first thing I should have said is just make more offers. So you have a promotional calendar where this day I'm gonna offer this, next week I'm offering this. You are offering, so you're it makes sense, your content, your emails are leading up to it. Um, email marketing is something everybody should be very good at. Um launches into that promotional calendar. So you're making sales, sales, a lot of money, sales, sales, a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Uh in launches, if launches, a big tip there is get people you know, salivating where they can't wait to hit that buy button. You know, we had people on the first launch I did, we had people ordering before before it was ready to go, before we announced it. We had the sales page pulled up, we didn't and they were finding it somehow, and you know, uh, that's when you know that you're you know you built up the excitement about it. Take whatever you launched and relaunch it 30 days later. We'll make almost as much money as you did on the initial launch.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yep. Yeah, I've got caught in one of those funnels where before it even launched, uh, you know, they had me on sales calls and I went through that. It was a whole click funnels, you know, kind of situation there. And so you're you're right, being able to salivate long before, and then they'd already piqued my awareness and interest to the point that even 30 days later I was like about to buy a really high-ticket item. So I understand that. And so you you mentioned offers, uh, you mentioned uh stacking on top of those offers and and then talking about launching it, and and then there there was some sales psychology and understanding like the pricing and making people salivate and all of that. And so that's kind of like the marketing knowledge that people need to work on. And how how do they, you know, maximize that? How did how did you get that knowledge? Did you take courses and do you help people learn this as well as you take them through your strategies and creating you know, systemized frameworks for their own products?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's I try not to see myself as as a coach, but more like a consultant. Let's just get this thing done, let's start making some money. Not let me teach you for the next three months, you know, because well, that especially I'm talking about beginners, and we should talk about that in a second. Here, um I learned it through courses uh and having done this for certain over at least 20 years, I don't know, 22, 23 years, um, you know, having a bunch of wins, having maybe probably many more losses, things that didn't win, um, you learn, you know, everything is just learning. So that's how I learned it. My suggestion, if we can talk about beginners, again, we talked about you have

Why beginners should partner up

SPEAKER_03

beginners in marketing, beginners with system.io. If you're a beginner in marketing and to a degree with system.io, but not as much of a degree, in the name of all that is holy, don't try to learn it all yourself. You're not going to do it soon. Okay, you're you're not gonna get it because you have to learn offers, you have to learn how to create a market, you know, marketing message, you have to learn copywriting, you have to learn email marketing, you have to learn launches. There's so much, building a website, there's so much to do, you're probably never going to get it right. Instead, either pay somebody or partner with somebody. You know, think of it, think of it this way. If you were to learn a magic trick, you wanted to learn a magic trick, right? You let Copperfield, you're gonna make the Statue of Liberty disappear, right? And you try to figure that out on your own, how long is it gonna take you?

SPEAKER_01

Your your whole life, maybe. You know, you don't know those secrets.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, how long would it have taken Copperfield to show you?

SPEAKER_01

Probably 10 minutes. Let's go. Yeah, probably less.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, and my experience has been, you know, I worked with my wife, she she's an excellent marketer herself. And I would spend months learning a software, learning a platform, and I would turn around and teach to her in a half hour.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

I was learning through experience, and she goes, Oh, that's software. That doesn't seem complex. Like, yeah, because I did all the hard work, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

That's just the truth. So it's just if you either hire somebody or partner with somebody, especially if you're doing something like coaching where you have now minimal time because you're having to do the fulfillment, there's no way you're gonna have time to do all the other stuff you need to do. Yeah, so uh that's and then for system, you know, at the very minimum, go in and learn all the different functionality it has. System. I've been saying system forever. Uh so go and learn all the different functionality it has. Uh because there's it'll it'll stimulate your thinking. Oh, it's got courses. I could create a course. Oh, I could start tracking people in the CRM functionality. Oh, I could start sending out newsletters and I can tech campaigns and I can tag people, right? And workflows. Workflows. Amazing what you can do with it. Yeah, some of my workflows are just sick. Things shouldn't be that complex complex, but that's the way my brain works. I make them uh I like wow, I like if this then that.

SPEAKER_01

Like it probably scrolls off in 10 directions depending on whatever trigger you have set up, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so yeah, it does, uh, which then leads to, I mean, this is why you want to work with somebody who is experienced already, because

Advanced email segmentation tactics

SPEAKER_03

that gets you into segmenting your list. And there's so much that just email marking, for example, and system can do this, great. It can segment lists, somebody signs up for a lead magnet, you tag them as they got this lead magnet, they're interested in. Let's say I put out a lead magnet on how to use a wrestling dummy, right? They're in the MMA niche, and now I start sending them with things about boxing, you know, email about boxing gloves. Total disconnect. I can put them on a list, I've tagged them and have workflow, put them in a campaign all dedicated to a wrestling dummy. Conversely, maybe I'm selling a punching bag. You gotta find, and even people get on your list, and then you can offer them a lead magnet to sub-segment them into other lists. So you can really slice and dice your list down into you know exactly what this person's interested in, and none of your emails ever have to go off topic.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

So that is yeah, that's the type of thing that if you're starting at beginner, you'll learn the stuff eventually, but that's what I'm telling you. You're so much further ahead hiring somebody to help you do it to show you what to do with your particular business or partner with them, something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, wow. Okay. Uh absolutely amazing. So you have these complex uh workflows and segmentation using the email marketing, the CRM within system.io. And so there's two other things that you mentioned saying, like ride your winners hard and um other product discovery tips, you know. So let's talk about the winners. And so you've segment them, you've niche them down, and and now you're able to know which ones are your winners. How do you double down on those? Like you said, being able to not just double that gentleman's, you know, uh evergreen product from $25,000 a month to $180,000 the next month. How do we do that? How you know, with the promotional

How to maximize a winning offer

SPEAKER_01

calendar or whatever it is, like what do you suggest for optimizing those um types of products?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, you you found a winner, right? You found something that people are interested in. That's the game, finding an offer that people want, right? So you've got an offer, you know people are gonna spend money on it. So, how good can you get at getting money from them, getting more people to do it? So you just look at the different ways, you know, increase the LTV, right? The lifetime value of the people who bought from you. Uh sell them products related to it, uh, sell more of that product. Uh, for example, find other ways of getting getting in front of more people. Right? Uh, maybe there's a forum, or there's a trick that I done had done with one business that worked very well for us. Uh, there was a a pay a pay site where you can pay to uh to you join this this site and you can advertise yourself in there, you can do whatever you want to. So we went into this site, we paid to be in there, and we offered these people who was in the Molly niche again. We offered them, hey, you know, how would you like to be featured in this magazine? Or, you know, and it'd be in a competition to be in this magazine. Yes, they called this link. Whoa, just a few of people, right? And that was a way you would never think of getting people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's that's strategic, that's smart.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh, and there's probably other similar things like to that in other, you know, that I'm not thinking, but would exist in other niches. Um, you've got, you know, you're on YouTube, or are you on the all the different platforms? You hit more platforms. Um, can you mail drops? If you're familiar with mail drops, we were spending three in the survival niche, we were spending three thousand dollars uh to spend to send out to 150,000 people, but we'd get back 10,000 bucks, right? Um so it's something that people never think of. There's people out there who have these huge lists, right? Find a clever way to test out the list, small. Uh so just constantly be looking because you've got the offer, you just have to figure out how to get in front of more people, paid ads, other things. Um I think, especially if it came easy to you, your first one. You know, I I think the universe drops something easy into our laps the first time around. Uh, and we think that's gonna be easy. No, when you've got something that's working, like some saying, ride it hard. Do everything you can to make more money from that. That's half the game is finding that, finding it to begin with.

SPEAKER_01

All right. And so as we kind of uh close this out, you know, what if I'm sitting here and I'm like, oh, this sounds great. I still have no clue what product to choose, you know. I I still am a little lost when it comes to this digital marketing game. Like, what kind of advice do you have for these people? Because, you know, a lot of listeners are beginners, you know. We see the comments

Finding profitable product ideas

SPEAKER_01

underneath these interviews and they're like, but where do I start? What do I how do I get started? Like, seriously, that question is asked over and over.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, there's the standard ways of look at look at what you do, what you know, right? And try and sell that. My I'm gonna be honest though, I my money has come from doing things outside the box, of doing things very different. Um one typically they have come from things I wish I had. Uh, so I created an app that, you know, it was just some idea I had because I was frustrated it was in the martial arts niche. I was frustrated, I had all this information, this knowledge, uh grappling knowledge, right? I was writing it down in notebooks. I was buying every DVD under the sun. I'd go out and I'd teach people, and I'm going, what am I gonna teach them? Let me have to go. I gotta throw these DVDs, this is back in the day, into my computer and you know, and search through it for something to teach. And I just did not have quick access to all this stuff. So I took all this stuff, put it into an app where you could go, grappling apps for anybody who knows MMA or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You can click on mount, and then click on you have the amount, the opponent has a mount, and click on he's got his arm around your neck, and then click on the next thing, and boom, there's five or ten techniques you can do from that position like that. That would have taken me an hour and a half if I was searching through all my notes and everything else. It was frustrating to me, so I built it out for myself initially. Showed a couple people, they went, that's pretty good. Can I have a copy? Right. I had an offer. Uh, another one, and this is a this is probably my biggest thing that I think is really underlooked, and you could go in many directions with this. I found a catalog or a product in a catalog uh that was just being undermarketed. Right now, think about think about online catalogs, think about Shopify or whatever, right? So you see them and it's a picture of the thing with a short blurb under it, right? That's their SEO, right? So I took this thing from a catalog and I built out a whole freaking web page about it and a you know website about this one product, right? And of course, I went up to the top of the search engines quickly because nobody else did that. Well, how many other products, how many companies, how many manufacturers have stuff, they're not marketers, they're focused on creating stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03

Even if you take something that's a little bit over, you know, there it might seem like there's a lot of competition, but it's just, you know, in the martial arts inch, maybe a punching bag, right? I did that with a punching bag. There's this punching bag I no longer sell. Somebody wrote, you know, I haven't sold it for the last five years. A guy called me the other day asking me if he could still buy it. It was just a punching bag, but I showed myself in a video hitting that punching bag, making that bag look good.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

So you take one thing, go to catalogs, go to Shopify, go anywhere where people are undermarketing something and make that your main thing. You you've heard focus on one thing, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

So if you can do that, if you can get something that's higher priced, right, call the company, say, what will you ship this for me for? Tag on an extra 150 bucks for your time, right? 200 bucks for your time. That's what I did. Um you could sell a it could be a million dollar seller because it was for me.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. I love it. And that's a great strategy, especially when, like you said, um, you have no clue where to begin, finding a higher priced item and doing all the SE. So sitting with SEO just for a little bit here, because I think a lot of people think it's dying. And no, it's actually being revived because there's so much out there. What do

Difference between SEO and funnels

SPEAKER_01

you see in the trends of SEO search engine optimization?

SPEAKER_03

Now I'm not an expert with SEO, uh, but now that we have AI, SEO is not impossible for people to do. Um so I think the the way I want people to think about SEO as far as a trend, yeah, you get your keywords in there, you get your meta, your description, your title, all that. If you don't know what that is, that's why if you're a beginner, don't know what that is, that's why I say work with somebody who does. Yeah. Right. Uh because they'll they'll get you going the right direction. So you do all that stuff right. You know, you you get your pillar pages, your main content, and then you know, associated content. Uh, but if I can go off topic a little bit, because we are talking about system here, system. Um SEO is like YouTube, you know, basically your website, you're trying to SEO, get up in the search ratings like YouTube. It's your traffic source. Separate that from system, from system.io. Okay. System is the cash register. The SEO or the YouTube, whatever, that's like a library. That's where the content exists, right? All that content exists, it's a bad place to sell somebody. It's not optimized for giving them upsells, down sells, tagging them, abandoned cart, all that. That content, including SEO, is meant to drive them to a funnel, which system is like that. Now you could hack that together on something like WordPress. Oh my god, is it hard? That's why I left it, is because I had so many different things hacked together and plugins and everything, it was terrible. And you know, it's just like the clouds parted once I went to a single funnel platform. Um, so yeah, it has its place, but that's and that's something I think beginners really should understand is the difference between a funnel platform and a traffic generating platform. All right, you use those other things, use SEO, whatever. And then once you got them, that creates a desire. I just built something out in the last week myself. Coincidentally, I practice why I preach. I'm I'm bringing an old product back to life that sold like crazy, right? In the past, and I got a block in my head, like other people do. I know people are doing this, they got blocks in their head. Oh, I can't sell this anymore. Wrong. You can. If people bought it ever, they'll buy it now. So yeah, so I just SEO'd a site like crazy, did it very fast. I'm watching in uh Google Console, watching the traffic going up and the you know uh you know the play page ranking and everything is just going up, and I know that I will be getting sales in the next couple weeks. I already had one.

SPEAKER_00

Um wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So doing that, but I'm driving them from there over to my system.io funnel, right? Yeah, once they get there, now you know they're gonna, you know, I'm gonna they're on my mailing list, I got them tagged, I'm gonna be emailing them until they buy or die, right? Yep. Uh so that's that's a important distinction to have. I hope that was clear because it's very important.

SPEAKER_01

I I think it is clear. I and a lot of people think you can build something on you know, system or system. It doesn't matter each one, it depends on geographically where you are. So here in America, most people say system, but a lot of people think you can build something within the software, and that's all she wrote. You know, they don't think about the traffic generation, that funnel, but um, that is what you know this platform is doing, is really changing the game for a lot of people to get their foot into the door of the funnel marketing, but then they forget the marketing piece, the traffic generation. So now that we we've seen you you were able to make five million dollars, right? Over the you know, course of you know, since you started digital marketing. How long would you say you've been in the game doing this online? We didn't really talk about when you started.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I floundered for a long time. So I would say I started uh maybe 20 years ago or so. Yeah. Just and that was just you know, dipping my toes in the water, trying to it take took several years before I went, before I went, hey, this is the real deal. I'm just gonna I'm gonna focus on this hard and get really as good at this as I can.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I believe that you know it can make money.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

The gift of location freedom

SPEAKER_01

So I always ask everyone, uh, what is the gift that entrepreneurship has given you in this 20 years?

SPEAKER_03

Well, the biggest, I don't know if this sounds trite, but it is time and location freedom. Uh my wife and I travel like nobody's business, and we don't miss a beat. We travel, you know, we were in where were we last year? We were in Mexico last year. Uh we were in Medellin earlier in the year.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Uh we've been down to Costa Rica four times, I think. And all the time, it's we don't care really about when we go. Uh so that uh family is important to me. So family wants to come to visit. I don't have to say, uh, yeah, I I'm working, so you can only come. Hey, whenever you want to come, fine, because I'm working from home. Who cares?

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_03

And I can just dial back what I'm doing. So that is you know, internet marketing in general is that's the big gift. Um that's amazing. Having to work for people, the potential to have huge, huge paydays keeps me very excited. Um, with system, then the ability to test an offer very fast. I mean, some days it's it's just sick how quickly I put up an offer. I'll have an idea in the morning, I'll be testing it by evening.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03

Idea, and yeah, so for me, system is is that easy because I've done it and you know I just know how to do this stuff. Um, so yeah, that's that's the big gift. But that is, I mean, if that's not life-changing enough for you, yeah. You know, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01

All right. And so uh, if you could describe system in one word or one sentence, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_03

Ooh, I wish I had prepared this one. Uh system allows you to maximize well, this is gonna sound a little complex. Maximize lifetime value on a person, on a contact, on a customer.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I like that one. Yeah. Maximize the lifetime value of a customer. That is good. I like that one. That's the first time we've heard that one. Um, so it really helps you optimize and work effectively. Uh yeah. Oh, I love that one. Okay, last question. If someone is listening right now, we and I know I've kind of asked this in different aspects, but uh, I'm looking at the motivator, the mentor, and they're saying, I'm ready. They're sitting on the edge of their seat, they're ready to go. What advice do you have for them?

SPEAKER_03

It depends on where they're at. Uh, if they want me to help them, uh they can reach out to me at bobdoris.com, two Rs in Bob Doris, and just fill out the form that they can read a little bit about what I do and send me a message through there, and I'll tell them whether I can help them or not. Um if they're trying to do this all on their own, and if they are, I think I've warned against that plenty already. If you're starting out, uh you know, my my mess message on that is don't try to do it all yourself. Part either hire somebody, partner with somebody. If you had something that was selling in the past, reignite that. Um, but yeah, be be smart, be smart. Go for uh you know 50% of a watermelon than 100% of a grape, right?

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I love that. So if someone wants to work with you after this, I know you already mentioned Bobdorse um.com again with two R's. Is there anything else that they can um get from you? Or do you have any courses, any funnels that you'd like to promote, or um that you're about to launch in the coming promotional calendar?

SPEAKER_03

No, I don't. Um I I don't really enjoy doing that anymore. I enjoy taking my first preference is taking people who have something that has worked in the past or they have assets they're sitting on and they think are dead and getting those going. I love doing that. Uh, courses, I have taken a million courses, and I have created I created a program called Expert Accelerator in the past, which was actually very good. I put a bunch of people through that. Um, but I think people need more than that. Yeah, courses are good, but uh statistically speaking, I believe it's that five percent of people are successful with a course. When you work with somebody, that jumps up to 20 to 40 percent chance of success. You know, it's significantly higher.

SPEAKER_01

I agree with that 100%, right? Uh, if you want to go fast and far, you do it with a team. Yeah, so I appreciate all your advice. I think I could probably have two, three, four more conversations. My I was my brain was sluggish trying to keep up with you today because there's just so much content, so many new ideas and explosions. So thank you for joining us today and sharing your success stories um with our audience.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. All right. Thank you all for joining us for another success story with um system.io. And until next time, keep creating.