Has your work life ever felt like it's swallowing up your personal life? Do you want to thrive in your career without sacrificing your love story? With pastors and power couple Earl and Oneka McClellan as our guests, we take a deep journey into the compelling dynamics of maintaining a successful work-life and love-life balance. This charismatic duo has been married for 26 years, and their insightful tips about fostering a strong bond are absolute GOLD.
Get ready to break the myth of work-life balance and discover the importance of rhythm in family life. Earl and Oneka share their views on effective communication and understanding the dynamics of work and personal relationships. We don't just stop at harmony; we dive into courage, risk-taking, and the power of unwavering support in pursuing dreams. But it's real life - and that means challenges, insecurities, and failures. Fear not! The McClellans open up about how these experiences have only fortified their bond, and how they can do the same for you.
Has your work life ever felt like it's swallowing up your personal life? Do you want to thrive in your career without sacrificing your love story? With pastors and power couple Earl and Oneka McClellan as our guests, we take a deep journey into the compelling dynamics of maintaining a successful work-life and love-life balance. This charismatic duo has been married for 26 years, and their insightful tips about fostering a strong bond are absolute GOLD.
Get ready to break the myth of work-life balance and discover the importance of rhythm in family life. Earl and Oneka share their views on effective communication and understanding the dynamics of work and personal relationships. We don't just stop at harmony; we dive into courage, risk-taking, and the power of unwavering support in pursuing dreams. But it's real life - and that means challenges, insecurities, and failures. Fear not! The McClellans open up about how these experiences have only fortified their bond, and how they can do the same for you.
For us. We see our life more, we think more rhythm.
Speaker 2:Holistically.
Speaker 1:Yeah than balance. We think like, oh, do we need to lead into our kids right now? Let's make sure tonight is a night that we're going to be doing movies and popcorn or making pizza together. Hey, we've been running pretty hard over the last few days. Let's make sure. Have we gone on a date night? Man, we haven't. Let's make sure we take some time out to do that. Hey, let's make sure we get the kids down to bed at the right time this evening so we can have some time afterwards to cuddle. Hello.
Speaker 3:You're listening to the Bop the business of photography podcast with Rob Green, a photographer to contagiously positive clients and fierce believer in building people focused businesses that leave a lasting impact. If you're an entrepreneur with dreams in your head, ideas in your heart and passions burning deep down in your soul, this is the perfect place to be, because this is where dreams come to thrive. So are you ready to build your business, wow your clients and make photo magic? Here's your host, Rob Green.
Speaker 4:Aw, coming at you from DFW Texas, you are listening to the Bop. So great to be here with you today for the very first episode from the new home and headquarters for Square 8 Studio. If you missed the season two premiere, first of all, you should totally go back and check it out because my friends Erica and John brought so much value and encouragement to that first episode. But also you kind of missed a big life update for me. After 10 years in Fort Worth, texas, I have relocated. I am now a little more central to the DFW Metroplex in a home that y'all is just beyond anything I could have ever imagined in my wildest dreams. And while there's still a long way to go to get the place set up and ready for all the plans we have in store for it, it is already blowing my mind. So if this is your first time tuning in, couple quick housekeeping notes. Number one welcome. So glad you're here.
Speaker 4:The Bop stands for the business of photography. It's a podcast designed to anchor you in a sense of purpose behind your work, to inspire you with a sense of wonder for all that could be in your business and then activate you inside your business with really practical, tangible steps to move the ball forward in your business right now. And then, number two if we're not yet following each other on social media, be sure to give us a follow on Instagram at square8studio square. Like the shape eight is the number studio, just one singular, not plural, square8studio. And give us a follow on our square8studio YouTube channel as well, where we feature even more education, including something brand new that y'all are actually the first to hear that we're gonna be doing. It's gonna be kicking off real soon. We're gonna start posting video highlights from each episode of this podcast.
Speaker 4:Now we start out each episode of the Bop with a Bop bite. Bop bites are these little bite sized nuggets of goodness that, if all you have is a few minutes in your car on the way to school or work, you can tune in and take away a little nugget for your day and then come back and listen to the rest of the episode later. Today's Bop bite goes hand in hand with the theme of today's episode. If winning at work means losing at love, it's time to start choosing to change. If winning at work means losing at love, it's time to start choosing to change.
Speaker 4:So often in entrepreneurial circles, our conversations focus on strategies to grow a profitable business and y'all. These are great conversations. They are needed conversations. But let me ask you, what good is a profitable business if it costs you your marriage? What good are thousands of followers on social media if your kids don't want to follow in your footsteps as a parent? And for all my single people listening just like me, what good are all those six figure years you're stockpiling and logging all the late nights and early mornings for if you never get to take time and get out there and meet someone to share your life with?
Speaker 4:If I'm being honest, sometimes it's easier for me to stick to business cause I know how to win at that than it is to get down into the messiness of relationships where I know I'm more likely to fail. Can anyone else relate to that man? This is where I wish we had a live audience to engage with cause. Surely I'm not the only one that's ever felt that way. So here's what I want you to do Take a moment today and take stock of your relationships, just like you track your profits and your losses in your business. Take time to evaluate the people in your life, which relationships are growing and thriving, which need nurturing, need a little more attention. Where is their distance that started to develop in certain relationships that maybe forgiveness and humility can begin to restore? Because y'all, you can pursue all the money in the world in your business, but at the end of the day, if winning at work means losing at love, maybe, just maybe, it's time to start choosing to change.
Speaker 4:One of the things I love most about hosting the show is the wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives our guests offer. Some people have values and beliefs that are fully in line with my own. Others are vastly different, but the common thread that brings all of us together in each episode is the shared desire to love and serve people with everything we've got, and with that in mind, I want to give you a quick heads up on today's episode. Today's guests are dynamic, joyful, loving, raw, honest, messy, real people, and the insights they offer will be widely applicable and transformational. They also happen to be pastors. Now, I know we have listeners who may not share that same worldview, and so I just want to give you a quick heads up at the top of the episode that this is coming, so it doesn't catch anyone by surprise, but for everyone who tunes in, I believe you are in for a huge dose of encouragement today, courtesy of two people with tremendous character, who have made mistakes, gotten things wrong, wrestled with insecurities and doubted whether they had what it takes. People who have worked through challenges and walked through valleys and come out on the other side of these things stronger as leaders of their organization, seeing tremendous wins in their workplace, but also as husband and wife with a thriving, loving marriage built on the hard work they've put in over the years to live out the very principles and strategies that they're gonna be sharing with us during this episode. I can't wait for you to have your world rocked by my friends Earl and Onika McClellan right after the break.
Speaker 4:Look, I get it. You're a natural light photographer. You don't like your flash. You don't wanna shoot with it by choice, but you do need to know how to shoot with your flash. If you shoot weddings or in-home sessions, it's just kind of one of those things you gotta know. Wouldn't it be nice if you could learn flash without all the fancy language, without needing to be a rocket scientist? Join me, rob Green, for a three one hour flash class where I'll give you three secrets to easily unlock your flash's potential, and, I promise. No PhD required To sign up for this free class. Visit us online at square8studiocom slash flash class and you can become friends with your flash today.
Speaker 4:Welcome back On today's episode. We're talking about winning at work without losing at love. How to run a successful business while maintaining healthy relationships. This is gonna be good y'all. For those of you who've been tuning into the Bop for a while, you already know I'm a big believer that it's always a good idea to decide who you're going to be before you decide what you're going to do. So we love introducing our guests not by what they've accomplished, but by who they are as people, and every guest we have on the show is a special guest to me. But today's guests are near and dear to my heart because I get to sit under their leadership and serve alongside them each week at our church here in Dallas.
Speaker 4:And y'all, earl McClellan is easily one of the most hilarious communicators I know. But let me tell you what really stands out about him. The first time I ran into Earl in the hallway at a men's event, he stopped and asked me my name. The second time I ran into him, he called me by my name and y'all I don't know if you've been around a lot of larger organizations but in a church with thousands of people attending weekly. That told me so much about this man's heart, because in my experience, great leaders have this remarkable ability to lead the masses while never losing sight of the one that is Earl.
Speaker 4:At his core, he's a dynamic, visionary leader with an unrivaled instinct for helping a massive and diverse audience all feel welcome, seen and connected everywhere he goes. Then I met his wife, onika, and I immediately understood why he's always referring to her as his better two thirds, because this woman is a powerhouse y'all. She's passionate, driven, has an insane eye for detail and design and absolutely radiates joy and love. She's the kind of person who, when she walks in a room, you wouldn't be surprised to see flowers just kind of blooming up after every step she takes, because everywhere she goes, beauty springs forth. She's constantly speaking life and value and potential into the hearts of others and together with her husband, these two are leading not only a fantastic organization but a fantastic home and family, as well as parents to three beautiful kids Parker, grayson and Elle. So it is my honor to welcome to the bop my pastors, earl and Onika McClelland.
Speaker 1:How are you friends, we appreciate you and we're-.
Speaker 2:You're making me cry with that intro. Oh my God, it was so life giving.
Speaker 1:It's very true everything he said about you, honey, everything he said about you I've seen the flowers too, just so you know.
Speaker 2:They're all in our house. That's why you're wearing the flower card here.
Speaker 1:Literally there were no flowers on this card. Again, Onika touched it, flowers came out. Stop it, stop it.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us. We're honored to be here. Oh my goodness, yes, so honored.
Speaker 1:And we're thankful for you. You're such a gift to our life.
Speaker 2:And a visionary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to this church family and then definitely to all the listeners and so many other entrepreneurs and photographers out there. Thank you for being who you are.
Speaker 2:And one thing that I wanna say about your gift that I appreciate is your ability to capture the spirit of a person. I feel like every photo you take of someone that I know or someone that I don't know, you capture their spirit and who they are. Not only does it the end result looks stunning, but you capture something that's on the inside of that person, unmatched.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, Wow. Thank you, man.
Speaker 4:Well, y'all gotta know, when I have husband and wife duos come on the show, I don't wanna just be the one introducing you myself and then we're done, cause I know no one knows the two of you better than each other. So I'd love to just let y'all take a moment and introduce your spouse. What do you love most about your spouse as a person?
Speaker 1:I'm going first. I'm going first for sure. No way, honey, honey, honey. Literally I need to. It was my birthday week anyway.
Speaker 2:Ladies first. Ladies first got you. It was my birthday week. Ladies first, come on honey. Come on honey, I will start. No, you can start.
Speaker 1:You can start, cause I'ma one up you.
Speaker 2:I've known Earl McClellan since he was 18 years old and now he's like a grown man with three kids, and the thing that stood out to me when he was 18 years old was his humility, his love for people and his love for Jesus. And I was blown away that even in college, all of our professors, all the students, admired him, looked up to him. He had crazy favor, but he never put it on himself. He always shared that favor with other people and it never went to his head. And you're the same person today that he was when he was 18, except for better. So that's one of my favorite things about him.
Speaker 2:Also, he's the same person in front of people that he has behind the scenes. If we're on an airplane, he's helping someone with their luggage. He's just like that person. He's so welcoming, so kind, reminds me that there's no ceiling or limit on my life. Same thing with our kids, same things with our church. He's just a good man and literally my very best friend, and I feel like he could do TED Talks on how to be a good husband, how to be a good dad, how to lead like an amazing organization, with purity and fighting for other people. My favorite thing about him is he fights for other people.
Speaker 1:Well, you're kind to say all of that, honey. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:The gospel truth.
Speaker 1:Now is my turn. Let's get this party started. There is no one. I tell Onika this, and again, we're pastors and this might sound crazy to anybody who want to be Catholic out there, but if Jesus had to be born today, I think the angel Gabriel would show up to Onika and say hey, you daughter whom I love, you will bring the savior of the world into the earth. You will raise God. So that is the purity with which I see Onika living her life. There is Onika. Literally there's nobody like you. We say this when we talk, have our pillow talk or I'm up in front of a bunch of people. There is no one that's a better encourager than Onika. She has an ability and it's not manufactured. So kind.
Speaker 1:It oozes out of her this ability to not only put courage into a person but to pull courage out of a person, and so she has that, which is amazing. And then this ability to communicate so effectively. But, truth be told and, rob, I tell people this all the time they give me a lot of credit for stuff, but Onika is our secret sauce here. Without her on the team leading how she's leading, I don't feel like our church and this organization would be what it needs to be. She brings in not just a heart piece but such a strong leadership piece that it really has helped us, I think, maximize the potential, at least for this season, that we're supposed to have, and I'm excited to see the future.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad we're together. You're an amazing wife, amazing mother, amazing leader, and the purity with which you live your life and the strength that you have it's all inspiration to me. So I love you. If I'm a halfway decent person, rob, it is because I've been in an incubator of encouragement for 26 years that Onika and I have been married. She has poured life and strength into me. So I'm thankful for her, thankful for her example, thankful that I get to live with a slice of heaven on earth, for sure.
Speaker 2:Very kind Love you.
Speaker 4:The best. I love that. Now you said 26 years you guys have been married. Take us back, cause I know a lot of our audience you're gonna be new names and faces and stories to them. So take us back 26 years. How'd you guys meet?
Speaker 2:We, you and we got married again.
Speaker 1:Well, she wanted my body from the moment she saw me. So that's, let's take it back to that. I am a man of the Lord trying to honor and here she is. I mean, and every guy you on this podcast, you know what I'm talking about, you know when you got it, you got it. And no, we met in college and I was on my way to basketball practice and she was coming towards me and I still remember the day. I still remember seeing her for the first time. Our oldest son actually goes to that college now too, which is crazy. So I got to bring him to the spot where I literally saw his mother for the first time. So crazy, and it's beautiful and amazing and literally I don't know how this is possible. They say black, don't crack. So I don't know how this is possible, but Onika looks the same as college. I don't know how, but she looks the same there. I even say better.
Speaker 2:You're so kind. It's the truth, honey, but that's how we met. We met in school and we had the same group of friends, coincidentally, and they introduced us to each other and said you guys have to know each other. And that's how our journey started.
Speaker 1:She strategically got in that friend group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I inserted myself into his friend group. I did not, I did not.
Speaker 1:Hey, but she did like me first.
Speaker 2:I did like him first. I did, I did like him first.
Speaker 1:And last, exactly, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we met in college, college sweethearts.
Speaker 4:Brilliant. Now you guys like you mentioned, y'all are sharing in this leadership journey together. What's the best thing about that? What is it like for you guys to get to do this together? That's a good one.
Speaker 2:I would say we get to leverage our gifts and combine our gifts and combine our vision, combine our talents. You know, we get to collaborate all the time and I feel like we make each other better and we make leading better, because it's both of us our hearts, our passions, our strengths and so I think it's beautiful to be in a meeting together and Earl is like the vision caster. He will have like an end goal in mind and then I get the honor of helping that end goal come to pass and I like to interview him, ask him questions and then help execute that and then add whatever that I can to make it even better and to enhance it, and so I feel like we're a good team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or a good team oh, nick has given this language before, which I really like. That architect and then the general contractor Right, you know, and you got to have somebody that can take this, this drawing, and actually bring it to life. And Onika can really bring it to life, and she can be a great architect herself too, don't get me wrong, but just like she said, us operating in those gifts and I got a little GC in me too, but I think for a lot of what we do here at the church, it just works beautifully, you know, and it's I don't know, it's the best thing. It didn't start off that way, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we first started working together, we definitely clashed and he definitely took my suggestions personally.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And he thought that I didn't believe in him, but really I was just trying to help.
Speaker 1:And it was really my own insecurities at that point in time. So you have someone who's capable, strong, competent, and I don't know, maybe I was intimidated. I hope I wasn't intimidated, but I was. I think I was just more in my own head and feeling like, do I have what it takes? Just like a person who's listening to this? Right, you start off a business photographers, you know we talked about this, they're not everyone lasts for 35 years, right, you know? So you can start it and feel like this thing's not getting the traction I want it to get. So do I have what it takes to push it beyond just year one and get it to year 10? So I think I had some of those same insecurities. Do I have what it takes?
Speaker 1:And Onika, of course, was bringing life and encouragement. She was just trying to help, not to push things forward, but my own lack of confidence really really tainted her suggestions. So I had to wrestle with that and kind of get right in my own head and heart and remember that, oh man, god gave me these gifts and he's the one that called me, and I would say that, even with every photographer that's listening, it's not just a gift that, like you have. I think God gives these gifts because he wants pictures and stories to be shared, and it gives you a gift, a talent and an ability, and he wants that thing to be expressed. So it's not just, oh, I'm good at this, it's like, oh no, I actually think there's something bigger going on here and you're a part of a greater story, and it's not just for you to share your story, but to share an even greater story. That's been going on before we ever got here and will be going on long after we leave. That's awesome.
Speaker 4:Man, so good. I mean, there's so many takeaways for me in what you are talking about. Number one first thing that comes to mind is man, there's probably a lot of photographers listening that are getting fired up about the thought of man. Listen to how you guys interact and go together Like they're going. Man, I want my spouse jumping in on that. There's also probably some photographers that are going. Yeah, but my husband or my wife is not a good photographer and I love that. You guys are looking at the way you lead and going. We don't have to be good at the same thing. We can bring different strengths to the table and sometimes those strengths can compliment one another. They don't have to overlap. They can actually be more effective complimenting one another. And one person is operating in their strengths over here, another person's operating in their strengths over here and together you wind up creating something that is better than the sum of its parts.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 1:That's so, so good.
Speaker 1:You're hitting the nail on the head with that and what is unique is if you are if you're a photographer or you could be in any industry whatsoever and you have a spouse and your spouse is for you and you are for your spouse.
Speaker 1:There is some power in that unity and I don't know exactly how all of this happens, but when you invite your spouse in and give them permission to speak into the thing that you are doing and don't dumb them down because they don't know the intricacies and the technicalities of the industry, but you just invite them in with humility, you will find that some of the best ideas will come from your spouse, because they are the one that knows you better than anyone else. And they'll say something like I just had this thought and you can go. Well, that will never work when you're prideful, or, but if you listen to that with humility, you go huh. Here's another perspective. I actually have been stuck looking at it from one angle, but someone coming in who does not know the industry, they're able to come in and see it from an entirely different angle. They don't even know that that can't be done, but them saying that gives me an idea about something that can be done that I did not see.
Speaker 4:Yep, yes, and I hear it said so often that if you wanna go faster, go alone, but if you wanna go farther, go together. And as you're talking about that, I'm sitting there thinking man for the photographer who's listening right now and thinking you know what. There's too much work to be done to bring on a spouse or maybe it's even just bringing on a friend to come alongside you in your business and help you out with what you're doing.
Speaker 4:If you wanna go farther go together and let people speak into the process, invite them in, because they're gonna see things through a different lens. I mean, I remember earlier this year there was I brought somebody onto my team as a virtual assistant and there were elements of my job that I just did not enjoy. One of them was like mapping out all of my availability on a calendar. It just sucked the life out of me to have to go through and, day by day, mark my availability for sunrise, for sunset, when I could do shoots. I hire this VA team and the next thing I know, within like an hour, they're like okay, so we've got all your stuff mapped out for the next semester.
Speaker 2:What do?
Speaker 4:you want us to do next and I was like I don't know, I didn't know that was gonna happen so fast.
Speaker 3:Let me think about that and get back to you.
Speaker 4:There's so much goodness that can come from inviting someone else into the process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so, so good.
Speaker 4:I love y'all's transparency and sharing all that you're sharing here, because we have a lot of listeners who run their businesses with their spouse or wanna run their business with their spouse. You know husband wife photo teams are all the rage right now. So I'm curious I love to get real practical when we have these interviews what are two or three practical tips you guys have implemented in your own marriage to keep things healthy and productive in your personal life as well as your work life? Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 2:I would say, something that we're constantly working on is making sure we hear the person correctly, because I think it's easy to just like knock out a task or get something done, but making sure you capture the heart and the goal of what your spouse actually has in mind. Like this morning we were driving in the car together and there's a project that I know that's important to Earl and at first I was more in execution mode of like let's just get this done. But I could tell and I read the room in that moment, which I think we have to read the room with our spouse or with our business partners and after I read the room or read the car I could tell he didn't wanna just get it done, he wanted to brainstorm. And so I think, just stepping outside of our to-do list and our tasks and just reading the room to see if that's what your partner or your business spouse that they have, what shack they have on in that moment, yeah, I think to put a little bow around that it would be.
Speaker 1:We seek to understand, not to be understood, and that's a fight for sure to get there. Just internally, because you wanna get your point across, I wanna feel like, oh, you gotta see it from my perspective and if you saw it from my perspective you changed your mind. But to go, okay, I do have a perspective. There is something I'm passionate about here, but I'm gonna try to understand and when you both are trying to do that you're able to come to not all the time, there's definitely still times where we disagree, but it's just more often than not you come to a place of understanding and can at least move forward. So that's a really big practical one. Another one for us, and everybody's different. We don't try to live a balanced life per se. We just feel like that word balance can just kind of create, unintentionally, this scenario where it's like family against business, against marriage, against friendships against working out against, and we just we mix it all together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just like this is our life. And again, this might not work for everybody, because some other people are gonna be really compartmentalized and that works for them and it's like, oh no, at five o'clock I turn my phone over and I'm all done and I move on and I do this other thing for two hours and we say that is great, I think, do what works for you, For us. We see our life more, we think more rhythm.
Speaker 2:Holistically.
Speaker 1:Yeah than balance. We think like, oh, do we need to lead into our kids right now? You know what? Let's make sure we turn this off. Let's make sure tonight is a night that we're going to be doing movies and popcorn or making pizza together. Hey, we've been running pretty hard over the last few days. Let's make sure, have we gone on a date night? Man, we haven't. Let's make sure we take some time out to do that. Hey, let's make sure we get the kids down to bed at the right time this evening so we can have some time afterwards to cuddle Ho. So let's make sure, you know, as a spouse, have we talked? Have we shared what's going on in our days? Now, practically we fight to have dinner together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a family.
Speaker 1:As a family each night. We really really fight for that. And then at that dinner table we share our highs. We share one high, one low and one thing we're thankful for we do that. Everybody goes around the table and shares that. So we really really fight to make that a priority in our family. So I think the rhythm versus balance, I think trying to understand instead of be understood. And then just practically, you know, we try to sit down together as a family so that our kids always know that they're a priority, our marriage is a priority because the reality is, and every business leader will know this. Somebody will cancel on you in a second, you know.
Speaker 2:Or cancel you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can have a deposit, you can have all that stuff and they're like I'm done, I can't do this or for whatever reason, but you're gonna have your spouse, you're gonna have your family. That's gonna be who will be there later.
Speaker 2:And your friend, or your friend, or your friend.
Speaker 1:So make sure you make a priority who will end up being there with you for the long haul?
Speaker 4:Wow, this is so good. There's so much goodness packed in here for all of our married folks. I know also, we got a lot of single business owners out there, and this is so funny to me because I had no idea that a few days ago we were gonna be talking about relationships on a Sunday morning and you had a lot of great insights for both married folks and single folks. So I'm curious what about the single business owners out there? Because you know, I mean heck, I'm asking this for myself too, because I know I'm guilty of it. I think a lot of the single people listening are wondering how do I avoid getting so caught up in the hustle of running a business that I don't lose sight of having a life outside my business?
Speaker 4:and seeking some of these relationships that I do wanna have. Ultimately, that's really good.
Speaker 2:I would say, asking the people that you trust in your world how do I seem? Do I seem good when you look at my eyes or do I seem distant? Do I seem agitated all the time or do I see an ease? And if I seem agitated all the time, or distance, I'm giving you permission to shake me a little bit, to ask me when's the last time I had a day off? When's the last time I worked out? When's the last time I prayed or asked for prayer? When's the last time I checked in with my counselor? I would say, having those people in your life that you can say shake me if I seem like I'm drifting, and even if sometimes someone will shake you and say you're drifting but you're kind of in a zone and you don't have time to stop, but then at least recognizing and acknowledging that person and saying check back with me in a week and then keep running, but I think giving people in your life permission to tell you you seem off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that is really good in the humility to receive that which is hard. It's hard to receive it because you're like, oh well, you don't understand my life, Well, you're married or you're single, or your business not taken off like mine.
Speaker 2:You're grinding and you're jealous.
Speaker 1:Anytime you get to a place where no one can tell you anything, dangerous place.
Speaker 2:We've interviewed successful people that have had great demise and we wanna learn from their demise. And that's the common denominator they got to a place cause they had so much favor and open doors and success, an opportunity. And opportunities like left and right, and everybody like wanted a piece of them. They said their downfall was thinking that no one could give them advice and that no one could relate to them.
Speaker 1:Cause you don't understand me, you don't know all that I'm going. Oh man, the demands that are on me, they're just different than the demands that are on you. So that would be one thing, practically, you know, we're all I think. Another thing for single people and this would be for Maritube, or for single people, and Rob, you do a great job of this. This is so special. You know you serve on the photography team at the church. Well, you do this for your business, right? I mean, like you receive income, pay for this, and here you are bringing it to the church for free. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I think there is something to giving away, even the best of what you have that replenishes you. And I know this might be counterintuitive for a lot of people, but maybe the reason someone is depleted, or the reason they are not feeling as full as they would want to feel, it's not because they don't have a full life, it's because they're not giving anything from their full life. So, whether that's resources, time, energy, maybe you don't have the money to give, but you know what nonprofit has something going on and they serve and they help. You know I don't know kids at a school that don't have shoes, or you know they help homeless people, you know, get dignity. What can you do to go and say, hey, I want to volunteer my expertise to bring hope and life to somebody else?
Speaker 1:I don't understand exactly how this works, but it seems again, I'm a pastor, so I think God wired us this way that when we give out it actually provides more space for us to be given into. And I have not met very many people that are like, oh yeah, I gave this time I'm worse off for it. No, that can happen. You know, people can take advantage of you and be jerks and all that kind of stuff. You know, I recognize that's out there. But let's not let the minority of abuses out there stop us from what I think is a beautiful human and biblical principle of hey, give, and there's something about it being given back to you. So that would be another thing I would really encourage our single people to do.
Speaker 4:Beautiful. Well, and as you're saying, that, it's making me think. You know it's so hard after you graduate college to connect with other people if you're not very intentional about it. And what better way, if you're a single person that's looking to meet somebody, get out there and serve. If all you're doing is focusing in on your business, your world can kind of stay as big as you and your clients, and especially if you're a wedding photographer, all your clients are already found.
Speaker 4:They already found somebody. So unless you're like getting the inside scoop on a bridesmaid, or a groom's mess, you know. But the reality is, if you're getting out there and serving and giving of yourself, and hey, if you don't wanna do photography for free, find some other way to serve. That's right.
Speaker 3:Life and joy.
Speaker 4:But taking advantage of those opportunities to serve is also a great way practically just to meet somebody that you might not otherwise meet.
Speaker 1:That's so good, so good Rob.
Speaker 4:Now I hear you guys both say regularly from the stage on Sundays a couple of things. Number one, you talk about how we speak to mountains and number two, that we see with eyes of hope. And I know these have very like church specific meanings. But I'm curious because I feel like there's a broader context that this carries tremendous value for as well for the photography community, because I know in the photography industry, one of the most sobering statistics that we hear about regularly is how the vast majority of photographers and I think it's something like 85% of them don't even make it to the three year mark in their business before the dream dies. Whoa, whoa, which is crazy. So I'm curious for y'all, as people who live out this ethos of we speak to mountains and we see with eyes of hope what do you think it looks like for aspiring entrepreneurs to speak to mountains and see with eyes of hope in their businesses?
Speaker 1:I love that you shared that statistic. Believe it or not, this is true in church world too. Most churches that get started don't last. I didn't know that when we started, so maybe that was good, because we just were trying to do what we thought was in our heart and, like we talked about earlier loving people, serving people, pointing people to Christ. But I say everything can fail Without a doubt, honestly. Every marriage can fail, every business opportunity can fail, every relationship can fail, every car can break down. Everything has the potential to fail. Do it anyway.
Speaker 2:So good.
Speaker 1:Go anyway. Why are you going to live in the Peruvial boat? Get out of the boat, walk on the water and if you begin to sink, just pray. There's some people around you that can pull you up out of that water and say, hey, at least you tried. For us we would even say something like this I'd rather be a water walking, sometimes sinking disciple rather than a disciple that never gets out of the boat. And maybe some photographers can take that on and say I'd rather be a water walking, sometimes sinking photographer rather than one that never gets out of the boat. Try it, swing for the fences.
Speaker 1:Not saying you shouldn't do wisdom and do market research and cross your T's and dot your I's and, depending on what your bills are, you gotta be wise about stuff, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, if you wanna do anything significant in this life most times everything does not line up perfectly You're gonna have to take some step of faith. So for us, we speak to mountains. There's a mountain of fear, there's a mountain of insecurity, there's a mountain of doubt, there's a mountain of lack, there's a mountain of fill in the blank.
Speaker 1:So what we're saying is we're speaking to these mountains, saying, hey, we believe that God has called us to move forward here. So either we're moving or that mountain's moving, and we believe that that mountain's gonna have to move and just begin to go forward. We see with eyes of hope. We know if it's not dead and not done, then it's not final. So we're like, keep on moving, keep on believing. And if it gets to the point where you go, you know what cause I've had some friends and Onika, and I've had some friends. I've had to navigate even the closing of a church, a dream.
Speaker 1:Or the closing of a business or the closing of a business and you gotta say, hey, you didn't fail, you were already a success when you took the step. Well done, well done. So that's for whoever's out there, if this can be some motivation to keep on trying. But then if you need the motivation, even the courage, to go, you know what I'm gonna stop, cause that takes courage too. You gotta speak to the mountain of what will people think about me. You gotta speak to the mountain of I'm a failure. You gotta speak to the mountain of my life does not matter, because I'm not the leader Now I'm working for somebody else. So you've gotta navigate those things too. All of it requires courage, so, and humility. So just be willing to take that step.
Speaker 4:Wow, as you're talking about this, it's reminded me I was just recently on this business retreat and we were challenged by one of the people speaking to us that weekend that it's so easy for us to see failure as the opposite of success, and he really leaned into us and he said what if failure is success?
Speaker 4:What if success is really the culmination of all the lessons learned from the failures along the way, the lessons learned, the character developed that brought us to this point of understanding what it's gonna take to make that next move, to enter into that next stage where the success, as the world looks at it, comes and it looks like this natural thing that just happened overnight, but really it's a byproduct of staying faithful and staying down in the trenches during these difficult seasons where it doesn't feel like the momentum's happening, it doesn't feel like things are going your way, and yet you stayed the course. You kept pushing through, you kept stepping out of the boat, going. I'm sinking right now, but waiting for that moment to lift back up. And so, yeah, photographers, if you're listening and you're hanging on, and you're just hanging on and struggling right now, don't lose hope and don't view your failure as the opposite of success because, really, what you're doing is obtaining incredible lessons learned that are gonna propel you forward towards whatever that future success may be.
Speaker 4:Yep, that's exactly right. I'm also curious and I feel like y'all, as husband and wife, can speak to this in a way that I cannot. I've had so many conversations with photographers where it's not even just that they don't get to do their business with their spouse no-transcript. They feel like there's an absence of support and encouragement from their spouse. They're off pursuing this dream and they just feel kind of like isolated and on their own. And man, I, just as we're talking, I'm going. I think we'd miss a moment if I didn't give you guys a chance to speak to that person who's feeling alone in a business that they would love to, even if it's not a full on partnership, just feel supported and encouraged by that spouse in what they're pursuing on their own. Wow.
Speaker 2:Wow. I would encourage that person to let their spouse know and to say hey, I know that you're not a photographer. I'm not asking you to be a photographer, but I just miss you. Could you look at your calendar? Could you look ahead at your calendar and could you just hang with me on my next shoot? Could you just like be there with me and just be like my extra set of hands, just so that I can like spend time with you.
Speaker 2:I know we haven't been able to do date nights, so I know we haven't been able to go on that trip that we wanted to go on, but I know that just us spending time together is better than nothing.
Speaker 2:So it would mean the world if you even just had a clearer picture of what I did, what a wedding we can look like. You might even have perspective on how I can be more efficient when I'm at weddings or at events or grand openings. But I just would love to like you to even ask me questions like how the wedding go, or how the grand opening go, or how did it go when you gave the family back their family photos, and just like ask me more questions about my craft. Because when you ask me questions, when you invest in me, or when you even like offer to come with me, it makes me feel seen, and so I think like not waiting for the person to have the revelation, but bringing the revelation with humility and with a benefit of the doubt spirit. I think, when you have the benefit of the doubt, spirit it helps to fence this fall.
Speaker 1:That is so beautiful. So what Onika just shared is so healthy and so spot on, I think, a really great practical I'll share. I think another angle of this is for those who are feeling like your spouse is not with you it can create in you a high level of resentment, fear, anger, disappointment and all of those emotions.
Speaker 1:They're real emotions but, left unchecked, will lead you down a path of not only distance from your spouse but maybe even divorce. And I would say that is, in our society has become a viable option. And no shade or shame on anybody out there who has had to navigate the pains of a divorce, but every person, every friend of mine that's walked through it. They're not wishing that on anybody. So understand that it's not just, oh, my spouse and I are having some difficulties. I think you got to see the end game here of some of these emotions is to tear your family apart and, if it doesn't end in divorce, for you and your spouse just to be roommates, for you to live in the same house but actually not have a deep connection, and that is not what you signed up for, that's not what your spouse signed up for. So it goes beyond photography. If your spouse is not supporting the photography, there's probably something else underlying that. You guys got to get to, got to work on, got to navigate through and don't feel any shame about that.
Speaker 1:Oh, nick and I we've married 26 years. We've had to navigate. Got to talk to people, got to be willing to invite other people in. It's a healthy thing to do. Live with that type of humility. You got to go see a therapist, go to a therapist. You're going to go to a great church and jump in a group you know marriage group. Do that. You want to get a book and you guys start reading it together. Do that, but invest in your marriage and then let's see if the photography might be able to come together even better, because your marriage is actually stronger.
Speaker 2:And then I just would tag on real quick that make sure your family is not suffering. I think if your family's going without and it's not agreed upon, but it's like you don't support my business and you don't believe in me, but like your spouse can't- buy a new pair of shoes or can't like go buy tickets to go be with the family for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:I think not shaming the spouse for being discouraged that the finances are tight, but being like, hey, I know that my next photography opportunity isn't until XYZ because of that, that means we won't be able to buy plane tickets to go home. Are you okay with that? Or do you want me to get a side hustle Because if we don't go home then you're going to resent me? I think those real conversations because they could support you but they also could start to resent you if you're putting pressure on them to keep like starving. So I think you have to kind of put your head up out of the mud and say like is my family suffering for my dream? And if we are going to suffer because we've suffered, together, then suffer together, then suffer together.
Speaker 1:We're both in agreement Like, hey, that's what we're signing up for.
Speaker 2:We have suffered and have seasons of suffering, but it's agreed upon suffering. It's not one person flourishing while the other one's suffering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll say this too, and maybe we're going to-.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean you're not supportive it just means like we haven't been home in a year, and I'm trying to be as supportive as I can, but your dream is taking up our whole life.
Speaker 1:And now we don't have a life. So what you just said right there, onika, which is so beautiful, onika and I have we haven't read it in a little bit here but we have an agreement list. We wrote some things down that we were agreeing and actually asking God to do in our lives. Again, we're Jesus followers here. But maybe somebody's like, oh man, I don't really. You know, I don't really believe in God. I think it's the least good to write down a list with your spouse. They'll be like hey, what is it we want to see for our family? What is it that could be financial, emotional, spiritual, mental? Anyway, write those things down, because if you're in agreement, it's amazing what you're able to go through together.
Speaker 1:But if you're not in agreement, like Onika's talking about here, it just creates a lot of tension and a lot of friction and you're kind of you're pulling two different ways, which is die, vision, die too. You have die vision, two visions. One's going one way, one's going another way, and it's very, very difficult to move forward. So, even for single people, we're giving you gold too, because now you can go. Oh, let me, I'm ahead of the curve now. Let me kind of put some of these things in place in the beginning, so that I don't have to deal with some of the pain. All of us are gonna have to deal with pain, but I have to deal with some of the pain that maybe others have had to navigate.
Speaker 2:So good.
Speaker 4:I love what you said in there about how it's not just what you're asking for from your spouse, but it's also what you're offering in the process, that it's not just this hey, here's how I'm feeling and it's this one way thing, but hey, I wanna bring something to table and go hey, is there something in me that needs to be sacrificed? I don't wanna just ask you to sacrifice. There's this two way street and we're gonna come to agreement and where there's agreement, we can move forward together, cause it sounds like what y'all are really getting at is, oftentimes, if there's a lack of business support, it's not really a business issue, it's a relationship issue at its core.
Speaker 4:And if you address the relationship issue, the business issue will naturally start to work itself out as a byproduct of the relationship, growing and healing and being healthy and whole and aligned in future direction, which is so fascinating because I was just reading this morning a stat somewhere that said basically there's all these couples that were researched like couples that got divorced, couples that stayed together, and one of the defining characteristics of couples that stay together and have happy, healthy marriages is they dream together and that alignment of vision was propelling marriages to grow and stay healthy and stay strong and stay together where others are falling apart. So I love what you guys are talking about there with that man y'all. You guys have such incredible reach, such incredible influence, not just in our church but in the community and around the world. I know there are people listening to this right now who are going.
Speaker 4:Man, I never heard of these two, but I wanna stay in touch. I wanna hear more. I wanna hear more of what these guys have to say. Where can folks find you if they wanna stay in touch or take this conversation with pastors Earl and Onika a little further?
Speaker 3:P-O and P-E as we call them.
Speaker 4:How can they take the conversation further?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good question. Here's Onika's cell phone number. She starts getting blown up here.
Speaker 4:Right, right, right. She's like that was not on the agreement list.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, right right, right, right right, that's right. Yeah, we're not passing out. No, we give our phone number out to a lot of people. With that being said, you wanna find us? We're not going anywhere. Shoreline City Church obviously got YouTube. We got Instagram. You can totally find us there. Onika McClellan's on Instagram. Earl McClellan's on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Make sure it's the real one. There's some fakes out there.
Speaker 1:There's some fakes out there trying to get money from people, if you ever asked you for money. It's not me, it's not me, it's not me.
Speaker 4:I think we got some We'll get all those dropped in the show notes for sure. And you guys have a podcast of your own as well is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we haven't shot anything fresh for it, but there is some gold on there. There is some gold on there from you for sure, which is the name of the podcast is with so much love.
Speaker 1:E&o podcast, so that's the name of the podcast. It's everywhere podcasts are distributed, so go ahead and you can find it, and we have shared a lot on there. We need to do more and we want to do better at that, because I don't we like talking about relationships too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah yes, I love it. Well, man. Thank you guys, not just for coming on the show and talking about this with our photography community, but I can attest to these guys are living out the things they're teaching on a regular basis, and everybody I know I've been at this church for a few years everybody I know that's walked with these guys from day one says the same thing that they are off the stage. Who you are hearing here. The things they are talking about are not just pie in the sky, ideas for them, but real principles they are living out. So I encourage you, jump in, check out the podcast, check out the YouTube, check out the website and give these guys a follow. I know we often close out our services on Sundays at Shoreline with a prayer of blessing, so I was just curious. This is not a normal thing. You're on the bop, but would you guys mind closing out this episode with just a prayer of blessing over this community?
Speaker 4:of photographers who are tuning in around the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and before we do that, we just want to say thank you to you for being who you are, for being the type of leader you are, even on here, your ability to hear, process information and then rephrase it, repackage it. It's a tremendous gift. So thank you for being the leader you are, thank you for being a part of this family, thank you for using your gifts for the greater good. All of that. You are a fantastic human being and we're honored to know you and serve with you. Honey, you want to pray Because, just so you know, I think Jesus loves my wife more than me, so funny.
Speaker 1:That's not accurately, that's not biblical. He loves us all the same. But, honey, I think you praying would be great, unless you want me to, because I know you've been balancing the allergies.
Speaker 2:My allergies would be crazy. I'll try, and then, if I start sneezing, then I'm gonna jump in. You take it over, we'll tag team. Don't rescue me if my allergies take over.
Speaker 4:If the prayer ends and I chew instead of amen, we'll know why.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I love it. Let me lift this up, father God, we thank you so much for every amazing photographer that has hang out with us today. We thank you for your hand upon their life and we just speak a prayer of blessing and favor over their business. Thank you for crazy open doors, thank you for miracles, thank you for connections that they could have never dreamed of. Thank you for enhancing their gift. Thank you for surrounding them with other photographers who will champion them, who will coach them, who will partner with them, who will speak life in them. Thank you for just breathing on every single thing that their hands touch. Thank you for giving them wisdom on what things to say yes to, what things to say no to. We pray a blessing over every single photographer and creative, in every person listening and watching today, and we speak a blessing in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen Amen.
Speaker 4:Thank you guys. Wow, I was so looking forward to this interview because I just know, with those two Earl especially you just never know which way conversations will go, and y'all. I loved their honesty. I loved just how real they were in sharing just the heartfelt struggles that they've faced and their challenges, while also sharing the amazing lessons that they've learned and the things that they've been able to implement that any of us can start implementing in our lives, our relationships and our business, so that we can start winning at work without losing at love.
Speaker 4:I hope this has been an encouragement for you. I know I can't wait to go back through this episode and start jotting down notes for myself. I was sitting there as they were saying some of these things. I was like, oh, I need to go take note of that for me, Like this is a good episode for me too, and so I hope this has blessed you, encouraged you, and I just got to let you know we are just getting started with season two. We have an incredible season ahead of us. In fact, next month's episode features a guest that I'm so excited to introduce you to. She's an incredible educator to educators. Her name is Laili Amadi and she's gonna talk to us more about what it looks like to live and breathe in the education space. So if you've been wondering, hey, is that whole education thing for me? You're not gonna wanna miss next month's interview with Laili Amadi. That's it for today's episode of the Bop. Until next time, folks, keep learning, keep loving and keep chasing those dreams. You were made for monkeys.