Retrospect
Retrospect
The Ups And Downs Of The USPS | Retrospect Ep.233
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In this week’s episode we discussed the growing challenges facing the U.S. Postal Service in 2026, from delivery delays and financial strain to political pressures and evolving public expectations. What’s behind the recent disruptions, and what do they mean for businesses, communities, and everyday mail users? Join us as we unpack the controversy, explore potential solutions, and consider the future of one of America’s oldest institutions.
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Keywords
USPS crisis, mail volume decline, financial challenges, e-commerce impact, universal service obligation, delivery routes, postal reform act, pension liabilities, retiree health benefits, technological advancements, drone delivery, package surcharge, service delays, legislative changes, adaptability.
Jason
There is a slow, moving crisis unfolding in America, one that doesn't make headlines until something goes missing, paycheck, a prescription package that was supposed to be there but isn't behind that frustration is an institution older than the country itself. United States Postal Service now facing one of the most serious challenges in its history. Let's be clear, this isn't just about late mail. Mail volume, the core of its business has been cut nearly in half over the past two decades, and leadership is warning that without major changes, AGT could run out of cash as early as 2026 or 2027 that's not mismanagement, that's a system being squeezed from every direction at once. Technology replaced letters with email and online payments, wiping out the Postal Service, most profitable product, e commerce stepped in with packages, but those packages are heavier, more expensive to deliver and often less profitable, especially in rural areas. And here's the part most people don't realize, postal service doesn't get to pick and choose. It is legally required to deliver to more than 170 million addresses six days a week, no matter how remote, no matter how costly, private companies can walk away from unprofitable routes postal service cannot. So the United States, postal service is running a 21st Century race with a 20th century engine under 19th century rules, and the cracks are starting to show rising costs, service delays, price increases and growing questions about whether the current model could even hold, because this isn't just about logistics. It's about something bigger. The Postal Service represents one of the last universal promises in America. And no matter where you live, you are connected, same service, same price, same access, and now that promise is under pressure. So the real question isn't just whether the post office can survive, it's whether we still believe in the idea behind it.
Ian
Welcome to the retrospect podcast, a show where people come together from different walks of life discuss a topic from their generation's perspective. My name is Ian, and as always, I'm joined by Stoney,
Stoney
hello
Ian
and Jason.
Jason
Hello everyone.
Ian
How's it going?
Stoney
It's going.
Jason
It's going good.
Ian
Feels like spring.
Jason
Well, it's supposed to be getting a lot of rain here. So I've got my water barrel, my water containers, out, oh yeah, to start watering your plants, yeah. Well, I gotta start refilling the rain barrels, because I'm, I'm out of rain water right now, so I've got to put out all the containers around the roof line and let them fill up. And, you know, I just got a new roof on my house. I hope that don't screw it all up, but it's what I have. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been
Stoney
roof won't be dropping as much crap and contaminants, yeah. So it might improve it, yeah.
Jason
So let's, let's, that's a hopefully
Stoney
gutter system that you're using. Are you just collecting what just runs off the roof?
Jason
I have the way I have it this way. I've done it for years. I do not have a gutter system designed to, like, go directly into the barrel, which is of what I want to do. But I don't know if I'm going to do it or not. I've just, for whatever reason, I've just kind of always put them under the drip line or the roof, and I've collected all the rain water I've needed, okay, but
Stoney
yeah, if you use the gutter system, you can come up with a small filtration system,
Jason
yeah, and I've had like three big rain barrels that I have in my greenhouse.
Ian
If he puts gutters, like, may have an overabundance of rain water, yeah, yeah.
Jason
You gotta, you have to have something that is kind of multiplier to really funnel that water. Because, I mean, you just put it out in the open, yeah, you know, if it rains an inch, all you have in there is an inch of rain. So you need something that kind of multiply that.
Ian
So you just do one big funnel. You have, like,
Stoney
little buckets, or you got some, like, grade 55 gallon,
Jason
big, wide
Stoney
three with the metal thing around them.
Jason
Okay, yeah, I got big containers, and then I just scoop it out and put it into the rain barrel. So I'm hopefully, I think tonight, and going into tomorrow, we're supposed to be getting a lot of rain. So I told trace. I said, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be, you're gonna have the ball, these barrels all over the place. So she likes the road, yeah, she likes the rain water too. Because, I mean, she, matter of fact today, she goes, Yeah, you rain water, because I want to water my indoor plant. So she went out there and grabbed some. So I've got some nice i.
Ian
Can tell. I can tell when it feels more like spring around here after like, these first, like, big rainstorms come through, everything just gets greener, all this. Oh, yeah, you're right. I walked outside, like, two, three days ago, and I was like, man, everything looks so vibrantly green right now because it's that first, like, big rain, and it's also, it's, everything's warmer now too, you know, it's the climate has changed. But it just, I don't know, it's just that it just has that first, like, flip switch moment where I was like, oh, everything's so bright.
Jason
Tracy and I, we planted all our herbs, yeah? So we got some new stuff in the, you know, in pots, yeah. Man, after that, you know, it's been kind of off and on, rainy, man, I tell you, just like, blown up, of course, unbelievable. Just seeing them. My new roommates
Ian
talked about trying to make some, like, cucumbers or tomatoes or something
Stoney
like that. I got to you
Ian
got the yard? Talking about, yeah, I was like, big lie. I know you could easily do something. He was saying we could, uh, anyways, he's been talking about that for a while. So, yeah, we got
Jason
some parsley. Got some basil. Oh, fun. Got some green onions. Yeah, green onions are good. Some guy, I got a bunch of chives. Yeah, okay, so I got a bunch of chives I've had for years. Yeah, matter of fact that pops up all over the over the yard and stuff like that. So, yeah, so we're having
Ian
abundance of chives. Just let me know. I'll buy some off, yeah, but I love making some potatoes, man with some chives.
Jason
So we got some things, and we may get a few more things. I don't know yet. Told her it says any other things that you like to use speak now, yeah, like fennel, yeah, yeah, make a dill sauce or,
Ian
yeah, I've always wanted, I've never done it before, but I've always wanted to have, like, potatoes and carrots and stuff like that, like root vegetables or whatever. Like, have, you know, in there. I don't
Jason
really have a means of really growing a lot of vegetables. Yeah, I just don't believe my my back, I don't really have a backyard, right?
Stoney
You could do some raised gardens or something.
Jason
I just don't even have room for that. I would have to tear down the greenhouse. And I mean, if I decide to get get rid of my greenhouse, then I would have some
Stoney
rain the greenhouse,
Ian
because probably full other stuff.
Jason
Yeah, it's because it got a bunch of other stuff in it. It's the problem manage
Stoney
the space, I guess. Right.
Jason
Yeah. So anyways, I always want to try hydroponics. Oh, yeah,
Ian
I've seen one of those before. I saw, like, a big one. It was, I had some God
Stoney
kids that did that. They started off as a school project, yeah, but he just took off with it, yeah, massive.
Ian
What are the it was, I think was sprouts, yeah, a friend of mine's grandmother
Stoney
went so far as to have goldfish in it get out, or some kind of a fish in it, okay, what do they do? It may have been Koi. What do they do? They poop fertilizer,
Ian
yeah, okay, yeah,
Stoney
so, and they had some clear glass, plexiglass tubes in some of it.
Ian
I think it was kind of cool. That sounds elaborate, yeah, yeah.
Jason
So, yeah, that's, that's about it. So I think tomorrow is supposed to be a kind of a rain out. Yeah, we did most of our yard work. And what we want to do, we weeded and want to rock place today, I had to go buy some rock, okay, to kind of fill
Ian
out, like decorative rocks, or, like a,
Jason
like a path for the bit, for beds for, like, to kind of put alongside my house. Yeah, I had kind of started this, and I never went back and kind of finished it. But we did that today. So got that done. I actually went out. We both went out this morning. Went ran, okay, got my five miles in. Okay? I think she got herself about two miles in nice so that was a very productive day. That's good.
Ian
I'm glad to hear that. I People always talk bad about some like dreary days, but I'm not gonna lie. Every now and then, I like it. I like people to stay inside and have a nice rainy day. And I know not, it's not always
Stoney
good all the time. Appreciate the sun.
Ian
Yeah, I'm tolerating there's a lot of people in my life recently been like, it was raining a little bit. And I was like, it's been we've had a lot of nice sunny days. The weather's not been too bad. And I was like, you have a nice little rainy day or, you know, yes, it's a little unfortunate some days when you have to go run errands or something, but if you have the opportunity to just kind of chill at the house. I'm like, I love it. It's nice. It's relaxing. It makes me feel I don't know maybe I'm the only one, but a lot of people I've been talking to, they've been talking trash about a nice, rainy day and, like, it's not that bad. Everyone chill out. So that's what I think was probably gonna happen, maybe tomorrow. So, but what we got on the dock for today, I actually recently had something. I think
Jason
I remember talking about the post office, not, you know, screwing something up, you know,
Ian
but I think, I think that happened after we talked about doing this episode possibly, and I was like, I've never really had any problems. And then, lo and behold, I didn't, I didn't knock
Jason
on any wood. Yep. Post Office got the issues right now, I do they know.
Stoney
When I was telling some friends about the post office and we were going to do the episode on the United States Postal Service, USPS, they were like, was the Pony Express the starting of the Postal Service? And I went, No, actually, the postal service started with Benjamin Franklin being the first postmaster general in 1775
Ian
really?
Stoney
year before we became a country. Wow. And but the Pony Express was, is kind of the romantical part, but it lasted less than two years. The Pony
Ian
Express did, yes, oh, do
Stoney
you know what killed the Pony Express telegraph? Oh, okay, so think about that as in Jason's intro, it talks about all the electronics, yes, that are coming in. You know, the the emails, the doing
Ian
things in your phone,
Stoney
everything on your phone. Well, it was electronics, technically, yeah, killed the Pony Express. Interesting, because now you could just telegraph something, right? And, but the Pony Express actually went from, I think it's somewhere in Missouri, all the way to Sacramento, and then down another extension to San Francisco.
Jason
Wow.
Ian
I remember learned a whole lot about that in, like, was it, like, history, civics class, or whatever it is, back in, like, middle school, high school, the modern
Stoney
postal service started in 1971
Ian
okay, really?
Stoney
Yes, that early
Ian
or late, however, late,
Jason
probably the, you know, the iteration of how, yeah, we understand it today,
Stoney
the modern USPS started them, but the original, I mean, the postal started five, yeah, yeah, I didn't real. I didn't even know this until I started reading that Benjamin Franklin was the first postmaster general.
Ian
Makes sense. So I guess in 19 you said 1971 yes. Okay, so 1971 I guess was like, when the fur, like, when was it like the department, or how did that, like,
Jason
probably an act of Congress or something that did, you know, whatever they did. I don't know if Stoney may have that information. Yeah, I don't. I don't know interesting. I didn't know that. Be honest with you, in 71 that's, I didn't know
Stoney
that, yeah. Well, it was the American Postal System before, okay? And in 71 it become modernized, and they started, okay, the modernization of it came into it, probably some
Ian
standardization of it also, that's it, yeah.
Stoney
And that's when it became the United States Postal Service, yeah. And interesting. It's kind of funny that the Pony Express wasn't the founder, but it was this little niche in there. Yeah. That got everybody thinking about it. And it's just, it was really interesting. It went from April 1860 to October 1861
Ian
Okay, that was the Pony Express. Wow. The crazy thing is, too, is like, I know that, like, one of my local post offices, I think, was built in the early 80s, probably, so it's crazy to think about that, that my, one of my local post offices is only probably 10 years after when
Jason
it was found, that basically showed you that how, how things were connected, yeah, back at that time. I mean, you can have this small little town with one traffic light. You've even had a traffic light and maybe a building, but there was a post office there, and that basically put you on the map, yeah. I mean, it did. And so everybody had, everywhere you got they had a post office. That's as well. Said, That was the connective tissue. That's kind of what kind of connected the, you know, the United States, there was a community,
Stoney
big expansions, and later in I want to get into maybe some of the adaptation of the Postal Service. But in 1863 free city delivery began, okay. In 1896 rural free delivery began, wow.
Ian
So almost 30 years later,
Stoney
in 1913 the parcel post begins. Then in 1918 scheduled air mail began, wow. And think about this, this was crazy to me. In 1963 the zip code was introduced
Jason
where, really Yes,
Stoney
1963 Yes, that's insane. And in 1971 the USPS begins operations as the modern agency,
Ian
wow, wow. I also know that, like, supposedly, I think I don't know all the details about it. Let me say, How does like, how do they decide on like, on, on zip codes for things. But I think that's all also strategically decided as well. Who knows
Ian
what system they I know that area I know
Ian
area codes are like, they're just whatever I think they just put up, but I think zip codes are supposed. Specifically for like, certain areas. But that's crazy
Stoney
to think well, but I think the oh one starts in the middle of downtown, like, maybe around City Hall, and then they pick another spot, and that's to the note, and they just keep going out from there, and the further you get out, maybe the higher your number. That's interesting. Probably didn't think about, yeah, like I
Ian
said, I know for a fact that I think, like, like, phone number area codes don't go by any kind of, like, no, no. Two numbers beside each other are probably in the same area, but I know zip codes are in the opposite where, like, like, you said, there's, like, a strategic reason for that, but it's crazy to think that the 60s is when that happened. It feels
Jason
like some I don't know post office that was, I mean, probably no one at the time ever thought that the world would evolve the way it did, right? And now what we have, yeah, everybody's paying their bills online. Yeah, nobody's putting anything in the mail anymore. I mean, they're just, they're just not, right, it's direct deposit, you know, right? Just paid
Ian
my bill, or, like, wire or wire transferred. No one is doing that anymore.
Jason
So, I mean, I'm surprised
Stoney
no one. There's a lot of people that still are and but it's more of your older, yes, non techie type people. So what are we going to do? We're just going to cut those people off. No, no, because by law, the United States Postal Service must still provide service no matter if they lose money, right? Yeah, they have a universal service obligation to the citizens of America to provide broad, affordable service no matter where they live.
Ian
Interesting. The crazy thing is, like, I still there is a certain person that I pay my bill to that doesn't want, doesn't it's all. She does things very old fashioned. So she doesn't want any kind of like Cash App or any sort of new thing like that. And she doesn't like cash, so she would, she prefers me to do like, cashier's checks or like, or what are they called, like, a money order of some kind. So a lot of times, I go to the post office, probably once a month, to get a money, to get a money order, and then I literally just put in an envelope and put it right back in the post office.
Stoney
So in, yeah, 20 24 there was 168 point 6 million delivery points in America, but that went up to 170 point 4 million. In 2025 there are 31,063 Postal Service managed retail stores, and 33,780 total retail offices, including contract locations, employing about 639,000 employees at the end of 2024 Wow. And I still think they're working on the numbers.
Jason
I think a lot of the employees of the post office, a lot of veterans and, yeah, working for the post office because it was almost like a shoe in, you know, you're a veteran. Interesting. It was a good job. It paid well from
Stoney
whatever benefits. Yeah, you wanted to go work to the post office. My, until people started going postal Okay,
Jason
yeah, my,
Ian
my best friend's mom, I think used to work for my, my roommate, I think his mom used to work for the post office for a
Jason
long time. I'd be very curious what her experience.
Ian
Yeah, I don't, I didn't think about that until you just said that been interesting to bring a
Jason
guest on to someone who worked for the post
Stoney
office, right? That would have been kind of cool.
Jason
Yeah, you know? Well, the problem is they've got, they've they've got issues right now. And you know, the, of course, the post office was all up in the news during the 2020 presidential election about how all that was going down. But I don't be honest, which I don't know how they pull out of this, because something's gonna have to change. You just can't keep losing that kind of money. Well, the US
Stoney
government can, because we just write the checks for it every year and our taxes well, so yeah, technically they can.
Jason
I think it's, I think we far exceeded what we actually pay in taxes now. I just billions. They're just printing money right now to do this stuff. So, you know, I think last time I saw were 37 trillion in debt. So I, you know, as long as the petro dollar stays as is, I worry about that with the current things going on the world right now, I really worry if, if somehow other countries start trading oil in in a different currency, right? That's why, since we're the reserve currency of the world, why we're able to just keep printing money where other countries can't do that, right? You know? And just what? How we ended up bankrupting Soviet Union during the 80s. Yeah, with during Reagan, the Reagan years, they basically just spent them into bankruptcy. Yeah, they can't pay their bills anymore. In 2025
Stoney
the USPS reported 80 point 5 billion in operating revenue, nearly 89 point 8 billion in operating expenses, which is about $9 billion in net loss. Now the let's see. It says, first class mail revenue rose by 370 million. But some other things kind of went down in 2024 and this is kind of interesting, because it seems to be going up a little bit. They had a 79 point 5 billion operating 89 point 5 billion in gap operating expenses, so about a 9.5 billion loss for 2024 so they seem to be doing a couple of things a little bit better, maybe. But still, they lost 1.8 billion in 2024 and 2.3 billion in 23
Jason
the number I see here since 2007 the Postal Service has racked up over 100 billion in total loss. That's a Government Accounting Office. Yeah, that's crazy.
Ian
How, I guess, how like, like
Stoney
their taxes.
Jason
Okay, as long as it's a, it's an organization bound by by statute, okay? And they don't care until they it becomes an issue. I mean, it just for so
Stoney
long, the Postal Service was really the only self generating operation in America. Defense, yeah, right, to check billions, millions and billions of dollars this welfare whatever, there's no income coming in for them. So we look at it more like a business than we do anything else. It's just another governing function of America, right? We only look at it as we still have to buy that stamp. We still have to go pay $8 or what was the old one for $5 if it fits, it ships. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, because they had income coming in. Now that income is not there, but it's still a service that the government provides. Wow. They're just trying to do something, yeah, wow, okay, but it's just another service, like the military, everything else.
Jason
Well, any, any, in essence, any government oriented system, right? It's, it's not operating on a profit model, right? Just, it just isn't
Stoney
and, but for so long, it was profitable, yeah,
Jason
because the it kind
Ian
of has the world, yeah,
Jason
you had a captured market. Everybody had to mail letters.
Stoney
I mean, you know, UPS. Then you had, you know, all these other companies that came in and started taking the packaging and stuff away from them, yep.
Ian
So, I mean, of course, I hate to say it, but I also hate Amazon, but Amazon's a big thing too. They got, they have trucks everywhere. I mean, they are littering history.
Stoney
I love how you mentioned that, because Amazon can decide not to deliver to an address, right? And then they turn it over to the US Postal Service, who takes it to that address. And that's and that's what Postal Service, by law, cannot, for any reason, not go to an address.
Ian
And that's what and that's what happened with me. I had a package that was worth approximately 80 something dollars, and it was, I'll go ahead and call them out, because I've always hated call them out. DHL, okay, was shipped by DHL, and I've only ever had problems with DHL. And I was like, so the second I got the tracking number for I was like, I don't like the feeling of that. And I in, they might pit. All of a sudden, I was like, I don't like, Sure, anyways. And then, of course, apparently they, instead of delivering it to my home, they delivered it to the local post office, which I was like, which I was like, I don't understand why that happened, because I've never it's not like I live in like a rural area, or if it's a semi rural area, I've never had any problems with, like USPS or or edX, FedEx or UPS, UPS, never had any other issues. But anyways, I think that was where the confusion happened was because I never got, like, a notification that it got dropped off there. I had to, like, figure that out. And then again, the on, on the USPS side, it said it was delivered, but obviously it was nowhere near my. It was nowhere on my it was delivered to them. Right, right, right. And well, on. And then when I went to my post office, they said, Oh yeah, it's our tracking marker that we're like, the delivery person delivered it is right at your mailbox. And I was like, it is nowhere on the ground, in the ditch, in the it's nowhere around my mailbox. So if it was, it's not there. So either someone stole it or it got delivered to the wrong house. And they were like, we'll try and figure out something. And again, I gave him a week, and nothing happened. I went back to go check on it, and they're like, we don't really have anything. It's not here. It's not there. All of our systems say it's there. You're saying it's not there. And I was like, we're just gonna It's a he said, she said, thing between the US Postal officers and me. And so I'm not sure if my neighbor got it and just never gave it to me or whatever, but regardless, I contacted the original the people that I purchased it from was like, Hey, so, like, it's not here, and the and they were able to just send me out the same package again. They're like, if it gets lost again, I don't know what to tell you, but we'll send out to again for I did, and it came on time,
Ian
but the same thing happened. Then they send it.
Ian
DHL, exactly, yeah. They said the tracking number. And I was like, not again, but I kept an eye on it. They sent it to the post the post office, and then the post office did send it here. So I'm not sure if just something got I'm not sure if the delivery guy got mixed up. Anyways, all I'm saying is that was what happened, like last month. And I was like, Oh, goodness.
Jason
Well, we mentioned Amazon. Yeah, Amazon responsible for roughly 7.5% of USPS revenue, I'm
Ian
gonna say here. And I said it before, I hate
Jason
Amazon right now. It's building its own delivery empire and walk away from it all together. If that happens, I don't know what the post office is gonna dare
Ian
I'm telling you the amount of Amazon delivery trucks that are littering the streets Now, luckily,
Jason
contract that I know.
Stoney
Luckily there's still Timu, okay,
Ian
oh my god, it's your worse. And that's also my problem. I'll say this, and we can, we'll move off of this. I think that once upon a time, Amazon did have some good stuff, sure, but, but ever since the invention of temu, I think that there has been a lot of slop application of the items on Amazon to try and compete with the cheap, the real Amazon stuff, right, right, right. And so
Stoney
anybody can sell on Amazon, yeah. And that's the
Ian
problem is, like, now, like, you have to really like, Amazon choice top seller. Like, none of that means anything anymore. That's all just like, it's all AI generated stuff, like, helps, helps get your item at the top of the list. But it's all, like, it's all cheap stuff now to try and combat with the sales of temu and like, anyways, it's just a bunch of stuff where I'm like, I think that once upon a time, I think Amazon was good, but now I'm now, it's all just now
Jason
I'm hearing that, you know, they be going to, looks like they will look at drone delivery. I know they've been
Ian
talking about that for years, so I think
Jason
it's surprise. They're just gonna have these little drones dropping off packages
Stoney
and again, guess how that's gonna happen? Ai, yeah, data, because that's not gonna be, you know, somebody doing it. Oh, let me fly that over there.
Jason
Think about it. If somehow you could perfect that. I mean, now you're not having stuff stuck in traffic. You're right. I'm I mean, if you can
Stoney
what happens to your airspace when you got 10,000 drones flying over
Jason
your he's gonna have to step in, probably, if it gets but I have a feeling that he's coming.
Ian
They fly at a low enough altitude, I don't think it'd probably be a problem. But probably be a problem, but now they probably couldn't fly those anywhere near the airspace of like airplanes at all. If you live anywhere, even remotely near an airport, you can't get drone delivery. Probably right? Yeah, if you live out in the middle of nowhere, you're probably fine.
Jason
I mean, so I could see that happening and perfecting that. I mean, if you can get that where you can just pop it off and, yeah, you know,
Ian
I remember, I remember, like, it's probably been five or you
Jason
get a little alert on your phone, drone incoming. Yeah, be on the lookout.
Ian
Yeah. I think it's like five or so years ago. They used to use Amazon. Used to use the Mercedes Sprinter trucks, the same thing as, like, the little small ambulances, but now they move to all their own proprietary electric vehicles for all their stuff from my neighborhood, all they're everywhere. You can't get away from them.
Jason
Yeah, they have say, Well, if you can perfect air deliver, oh yeah, that would be pretty, actually pretty cool. Yeah, it really would, yeah. But right now, I'm telling
Ian
then, but then at the same time you're also, you're talking about not paying, let's say hypothetically, that it's not AI powered, and someone's actually flying to your home, like, you know, in a little VR headset or whatever, that's still, that's still less people,
Jason
oh yeah, I. Well, it's like, with anything, it's what's happened. And we've talked about other technologies and other places that are being replaced with base, yeah. I mean, look at you. Look at McDonald's now, oh yeah. I mean, it's, you have, what, a couple people there,
Ian
and, oh yeah, I went to, I went to a fashion restaurant recently, and they had the AI talk box, yeah. I was like, This is ridiculous. Thanks.
Jason
I can't tell her. I mean, the teller is fixing that's pretty much, yeah, you may have
Stoney
one person there, yep, right, because now all the ATMs do it all, yeah,
Jason
so, I mean, I as I'm saying, it's
Stoney
I, they've got it now to where you don't even have to go cash your paycheck, you can take a picture and deposit it.
Ian
And that's what I've done. Yeah, anytime I get like, a check, I just,
Jason
I'll take a picture of it, give the check back
Ian
to the person. No, no. I hold on to it until it processes through, and then I avoid
Jason
you could probably do it right there in front
Ian
of them. I do not really in front of them. I usually like when I've done that, I will walk to my office, take a picture of it and deposit it, and then, like, after a business day, it processes through, but I hold on to the check, and just in case something happens, they tell you that they're obviously like, Don't void the checkout until it processes through, because if you do, then you're screwed, because if it bounces or whatever. So a lot of times I also don't, I've, I've never liked having to write a check to somebody and they don't cash it immediately. And then, of course, it's just in limbo. I always, never like that, so I try to be diligent about cashing the check the second I
Jason
get it. Well, they say 70% of delivery routes are
Ian
unprofitable, 70% cool,
Jason
that's crazy. It was an article in Business Insider that's that just shows you, wow, what's going on there? Because a lot of these areas are probably rural areas, right? And it's, you're probably delivering large packages, and, yeah, you know, you got fuel right now. Fuel is going up. I mean, it's, you know, and you know, then you got the real sensitive stuff. You got labor and pensions and benefits. I mean, you got to pay a huge expense. Well, it's more than just paying people, oh yeah, paying for their retirement, yeah. I mean, you're paying for medical and you know, that's not cheap, so yeah, I mean, it's but when you have 70% of your delivery routes are unprofitable. See, private companies can just say we're
Stoney
delivering, yeah, but think about how it also affect, like, just the way the government operates, you know, like, court notices. Oh, yeah. How do you get your court notice? Now? How do you get that? You know, that's all mail. Yeah, you know, that's all mail. You know this, the licensing agencies, all of these things go back and forth, IRS, tax stuff, apps you see, but now they want you to do all that online now, right? And it's kind of crazy, because I think what's going to happen is, is that the post office is not going to stop delivering letters. They're going to change it to first class, where you got to pay $7 and you can get a tracking number. They're going to go for the more profitable instead of a 75 cent stamp. No, you got to do this thing over here or email it, you know, and get you know. So they can't really stop doing it. They're just going to find ways to make a profitable. Find ways to make it profit.
Jason
It has a $15 billion borrowing cap, a
Ian
million or billion, billion, cool
Jason
15 billion borrowing cap. So that's about, that's that's all they can do. Okay, so if they're losing 9 billion, yeah, they're not far away. They're not far away. Wow, from that, we threw around you 5 billion, 9 billion. I mean, it's like, it's,
Ian
yeah, that's unfathomable,
Jason
yeah, if you had to stack that up, yeah, in front of you, that's, that's, that's quite a lot of that's a lot of money. Yes, people
Ian
don't realize. I've watched some videos about this recently. People don't realize the astronomical increase from million to billion. It just because of the way the words are sounding. It just feels like, Oh, it's just like one extra zero, but like, or a couple extra zeros, like two or three or whatever, but like, the astronomical increase of that is substantial and and how much more space that can fill, or time that that can span, or whatever, it's crazy.
Jason
Well, big number. I'm telling you. I remember I was best forever. I was a kid watching my talking to my postman every day. Yeah, you know, he was like a buddy, you know, it was like, you know, how you doing, George, or whatever the case may be. And he was, here's your mail. And I remember just grabbing it from him. And you think about in today's world, and today, some of today's. Neighborhoods that they got to go into and deliver mail? Yeah, there's a lot of guys getting attacked. Really. There's a lot of ladies now delivering mail. And you could imagine the potential targets they they are, yeah, I hate to say it. And then, of course, you got people that are just now, they're just flat out stealing
Stoney
that's crazy. Well, I think for me, it's more of the mail carriers you can like, even in Baton Rouge, the capital of Louisiana, where two or three times they found a canal full of mail because the postal carrier just didn't feel like carrying it and dumped it into the canal, really? Yeah, just dumped it. That's crazy. I mean, you're gonna know who you are by the mail that's in there for real, and who was supposed to be delivering it. I'm reading
Jason
an article in the sun. It says the name of the article is bite the bullet, United States Post Office loses an actual Uzi sub machine gun in the mail, and nobody's admitting anything.
Ian
Wow, you lose an actual
Jason
weapon in the mail. Firearms dealer Steve Thompson opted for top security mail service when he sent the Israeli nine millimeter Uzi sub machine gun in February. So this is this year, really, but it still disappeared just days later. Yeah, that's one of
Ian
those things where it quote, unquote lost in the mail. That's somebody stole that.
Jason
He says he shipped it from Portage, Ohio, where his business ADCO firearms is based to a buyer in Florida on February 4. USPS tracking information showed he was moved to Pontiac, Michigan before arriving at a facility in Detroit on February 6. There you go. NBC affiliate W, D, I, V, reported there. The package was left a process, but it never made it out. Clearly, somebody in the Detroit plan knows what happened. Thompson speculated,
Stoney
yeah, yeah, because most packages get x rayed, oh yeah, even if you
Ian
don't, even if it just has, like, high security or whatever, or if it has any kind of marker of like it being some sort of firearm of any way, like, that's all I would take. He says.
Jason
Thompson, who sold the gun for 25,000 and insured it for 20,000 holy had sent the package as registered mail, meaning was traveling under the most secure service. It was expected to be protected by safes, cages, sealed containers, locks and keys. The outlet reported until Detroit, the baffled sender filed a claim with USPS was but was bizarrely denied twice, until the service finally agreed to pay the insured amount. Wow. Now the question is, where's the gun market? Now, he stole, yeah,
Ian
somebody stole that guy. The VIN number is definitely scratched off that one. If the gun is worth $25,000
Jason
I'm sure now the federal government's gonna be involved in that 100% register machine gun, and yes, yeah, the ATF was probably gonna have to investigate that. Yeah, somebody's definitely, well, the postal inspector will, you know, Inspector General, they, they have their own and, of course, lease Yeah, believe it or not, at one time, I thought about joining them when I got out of college, really, one of the agencies I had thought about joining, okay, I looked at them, and probably would have done pretty good if I wouldn't, yeah, but yeah, they pay well,
Stoney
you could have found a Uzi, maybe I could have,
Jason
but yeah, so they've got, they've got problems. I mean, they just do, and it's, I just, I just think that the system is just, I just, they're gonna have to do something different with this. I don't know what the fix is. They they're either gonna have to change the model, right, or they may just dissolve it.
Ian
But then what would fill its
Jason
void, which you would have to do. Then private you would, the government would contract with Amazon or FedEx or UPS or whatever the case may be. And, you know, they would basically pay these companies a subsidy, in essence, because they'll have to make up, yeah, losses, yeah, for having to go out to areas that they didn't have to go out to before, right? So it means gas and maintenance on vehicles and everything else. That's what I'm saying. I think if you can, you can perfect the air delivery model, however that would look right? I think that would be because, I mean, you're not, yeah, you face. Cut fuel out of it all together, right? You did,
Ian
or unless, unless, all of them go towards some sort of electric option. Yeah, it still doesn't mean it doesn't fix the whole problem, but it does alleviate some of it, I guess.
Jason
Yeah, I just think the model that it was built on just doesn't that world doesn't exist anymore, right now, not existing anymore. I mean, I can't tell you, I don't put much in the mail,
Ian
right at all.
Jason
May I put something in the mail for the first time not long ago. I mean, maybe, maybe a day or two ago, I did, and because I had to, yeah, put a stamp on it, traditional method, and dropped in mail so and just pray it gets there. Pray gets there. Luckily, it's here. It was local, so we'll get there. But, yeah, I have a
Ian
red flag on my on my mailbox, and I've never used it. So, you know, it's crazy. It's also it's funny for me. Like, again, I, you know, once upon a time I used to get, you know, bills for my electricity or for my credit card before I went paperless. And like, the, you know, I've always paid credit card stuff or some big, important bills, like, for me, electricity online. And so when you're swapping services, a lot of times, they'll still send you, like, the first bill or whatever, on paper until you opt out of it. And just to think, for me, of like, you get the envelope in the in the pack, and like, in your little you get the envelope inside the envelope that's like, hey, send your check or your money. And I'm like, That scares me to think that, like, this is a paid envelope that I like, a postal service envelope that I can, like, send to you guys and just like, pray that it pays my bill like that scares me a little bit, but that's how the world operated for a long time, yeah, but you never
Jason
thought about because it always Yeah, it they did it, yeah, you know, right, so. But I just think now with E commerce and right online payments, I think it's just me. I that's what I do now. Every month, I sit down with my iPad, yeah, log into my bank, and I write the checks right electronic to wherever, and right instead, it's done. It's almost instantaneous.
Ian
Yeah, I did the same thing. I sit right there and I got, I have all the different websites pulled up, and I sit there and I'll get them all it paid up, and then
Jason
I'm done crazy. Did you mention about you? I think you mentioned about the mail volume, the amount that it fell Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of money. Yeah, I don't know. I know
Ian
that this has been like a slow process, but I wonder when that, like dramatic change happened. Was it in the 2000s or was it? I know it feels pretty recent for me. I know my parents used to still go to, like certain places to pay for utilities. Whenever I was a kid, like they used to drive to, like the water company or whatever, to pay the bill or drop it off, or whatever. You know that was a big thing. Or gas utility,
Jason
they're seeking a temporary 8% increase on certain package products beginning April 26 of this year. And that's all driven by transportation fuel costs. I know
Ian
that the stamp price has been well,
Jason
they say first class stamps would not be affected by that temporary package surcharge. But, yeah, eventually it's they're gonna have to raise that. I think, yeah, they're just gonna have to, I don't, I
Ian
know the stamps are expensive now, but I you know, it makes sense for me. I'm like, obviously, I know the i i know that this is inevitable kind of thing where post office got to make money somehow. Well, they say.
Jason
Steiner told Congress that USPS needs more pricing flexibility. And outside reporting says lawmakers are discussing the possibility of stamp prices rising beyond the current 78 cents, potentially to 90 cents, 95 cents, or $1 depending on the path chosen. So yeah, they can raise or they can just flat out start cutting routes. I mean, now see, this is where I think the idea of air drone, this is where I can see that could fill that gap right to take care of the rural, rural areas where you can just fly a drone, right? Yeah. I think
Ian
also it has to have range, though, yes,
Stoney
drones don't have that kind of range. They would have great and met in like, you know, New York, yeah, you
Jason
would have to build out a network right for it. I think you would have to build up. Maybe you can utilize, they could
Stoney
call it the Pony Express drone service, you know, because that's what it was. Was a big relay service.
Jason
You could probably, probably utilize the existing tower, cell towers right there to add, you know, whatever equipment that would need to be able to the drone could can latch on to. Do and be able to keep on going. So, I mean, I think it's just make sure
Stoney
it's not just the range of the signal, right, right? You better you got satellites for that. It's the battery range, is what I thought he was talking about, because that's not gonna you don't have that kind of range
Ian
on those drones. So I think a round trip too, if you go, I'm just thinking, if you, like, you stop off at a few places, is you can only go so far before you have to, like, go back and recharge. So I was thinking, but against that way, that would probably put you in, like, whatever sphere that would be, well, you're gonna have
Stoney
to have, like, a little pad on your house now, yeah, because it's gonna drop it off and they get a recharge, and then it goes fast recharge.
Ian
That's, like, that's like, your that's like a premium level, okay, if I want the premium drone, you have to purchase the the recharge pad.
Jason
Yeah, well, they talked about, I mean, I mean this is ongoing. I mean this is like, March. I mean this is recent. Stuff. Says leadership and lawmakers have open discuss. Options are like, reducing delivery frequency or closing facility. I remember when they went to Saturdays, yeah, it was always Monday through Friday, yeah. And I remember when they I said, Oh, great. Another day to get bills. Well, you still
Stoney
got delivered on Saturday, but the post office wasn't open on Saturday. It was open Monday. You still got delivery on Saturday, right? But that was, what if
Ian
they close? What if we decide to close on
Stoney
Saturdays, see what that would cost and maybe help them? I don't need to, you know, yeah, send to me on Monday. But what about the people at work? You know, Monday through Friday?
Ian
I've recently been thinking about this. There are some pleasures in life that I don't think we really appreciate. And like, the fact that, like, yes, stamps are more expensive compared to what they used to be, this is still, like, a wonderful service that we get, I think we kind of don't we take for granted. Like, I didn't think about this. Like, how much is like, a bushel of bananas? Like, realistically, what five, maybe six bucks. Am I wrong, or I don't know, and like, I'm just trying to think about like, the fact of like, you can go to, like, your local store, convenience store, Walmart, whatever's around you. And for like, not a whole lot of money, you can get like, a bushel of bananas that had to, like, that were in a different part of the world that had to, like, get put on a ship and, like, made over here a whole bunch of other stuff that had to, like, get the Pro. There's a whole process and whole network of things, like, got the bananas to you. Like, that's kind of crazy to think about. And like, yeah.
Stoney
And everybody wants their cut, right? Yeah, the middleman, the middleman, the middleman, the middleman. And then the grocery store guy who really wants
Ian
to make a lot of times, yes, sometimes I get too expensive, and some, again, I know we've talked about before, like on the pre show, we talked about, you know, Ram and graphics cards and how, like, now it's kind of being gouged, because obviously,
Jason
AI, I don't know what's happened to computer hardware.
Ian
It's all AI is a big thing.
Jason
It's a lot of standpoint, why are these prices? I still don't understand how that affects memory. So more is being used in these other applications. There's less out there for people to buy a lot
Ian
of these AI the consumer market, yes, a lot of AI data centers require a lot of random access memory, which is Ram, in order to, like, make a lot of the processes work. And then, of course, for a lot of the like image generation, it needs a lot of memory on the graphics card end. So regardless if you're doing like, large language models, you need a lot of RAM to, like, make that happen. So these big data centers need, you know, hundreds of sticks of RAM for, like, their, you know, all their different servers to operate. And so a lot of times they'll just purchase large swaths of of memory, which, again, adds scarcity to it. And of course, it makes everything ever goes up supply and demand, right, right? And so that's a big thing right now. Is it? Because, like, technologies are happening where, like, you know, there's a big thing right now that Google is making a new form of RAM called Super quant, or whatever the heck is called, where it's gonna it can basically quadruple the amount of memory that it's I forgot how, what? They forgot the terminology, but it's like, for one stick of RAM, you can get four times the power out of it. And so now, like, there's many more RAM mission RAM prices are potentially gonna be going down in the next few months, because there's this new thing that could be coming out that you can do more with less, or whatever. But now graphics cards are, apparently, you know, being bought up in large margins, and, of course, hiking the price. It's just, it's a big thing. But all I'm saying is, like, what the banana situation I was talking about is, like, you kind of, sometimes I kind of take for granted the fact that it's just the convenience of, like, you can get this right here, and even though you're paying a portion of money for it, it's still, like, I don't know. I kind of find the beauty in that and like, it's still, I don't know, that's still, it kind of feels like a first world problem. Kind of complain about some of the prices of things that are not too terribly large. But you know, I know that obviously inflation is causing a lot of things to go astronomically high, so it doesn't always go one to one, but I look at the post office and I'm like, man, what will we do without the post office? And some people
Stoney
probably don't like to Yeah,
Ian
right, you're right, so guess it just depends.
Jason
But I don't know guys, I think we've got a I think Congress is gonna have to figure out how they want the post office to act, yeah, you know, like, I mean, I think they want it to act like a business. But the reality is, the the rules doesn't, yeah, allow it to act like a business. So I don't we all
Ian
just need to start sending more letters.
Jason
Well, I don't think that those day I think the days of letters, unless there's some solar flare that knocks out, right, everything that we're I think that world is over
Ian
with this is our announcement. We're opening up a PO box. So send us.
Jason
I'm kidding. You know all these, you know, electronic methods that we use now to to move money. And this kind of goes back to the whole thing of, I had someone
Ian
electronic money. I had someone send me cash app for guitar strings recently. And I was like, it's crazy that, like, once upon a time I'm about to do some work on setting up a friend's guitar and they were like, how much do I need to send to you for, like, all the stuff or whatever? And I was like, you know, it's just, it's not gonna be that much money. And they're like, I don't have any cash on me. Or just, can we you use like, Cash App or something? And I was like, Yeah, I've got a couple of them. I've got, I think I signed up for Venmo and cash app because of necessity, because everyone else had it. And they're like, I don't have any way of sending money to you. And I was like, okay, so I got paid from I got paid for a little side job, a little side gig. I got paid on Venmo. Yeah, yeah.
Jason
I don't have Venmo. I don't
Ian
use Venmo. I've never, I never used it either. But again, out of out of this necessity, again, I wanted to get paid for the job, and so I was like, I'll download it and I'll get it set up. Sure enough, it worked. And now, obviously, I'm trying to be cautious with it. I don't want to give out all my, like, banking information, so, like, I set up my card that I want to be sent to. I'm like, don't I don't need you knowing my balance. I don't need you knowing all the extra like, you don't need to know all that stuff. Like you don't need my routing number. Like, no, just here's the debit card for the money. That way, if it costs a little extra fee to do that, then whatever. But anyways, so, yeah, I mean, it seems like the post office may go away, but I don't know, maybe I'm old, maybe not soon, maybe not soon. I'm old school. I think I like the post office still. I still use it, you know, on a pretty monthly basis.
Jason
I think I don't, I don't, you know, as long as, as long as the United States can keep printing money, because you just can't keep running, losing that kind of money, and somehow expect to just keep going. I mean, somebody is eventually gonna step up and say, we need to do something different here.
Ian
You know, you need to close on Saturdays. I think we wouldn't mind that. I wouldn't mind, like, I said, if there's anything I can't even imagine, like, even if something's, like, pretty mission critical, I don't think I've
Jason
I'd be very curious, what the labor and pension costs for the post office,
Ian
yeah, for did we say how many employees they was it in like, the million?
Jason
Stoney, I think, mentioned the employees 630,000 really? Wow. Okay, 630,000 I'm, I'm curious what they have on pension costs, yeah, or
Ian
how is there like a, like, a time limit for pension? Does it like, or is it just, it's in person life,
Stoney
okay, a true pension
Ian
is, yeah, yeah, interesting. Okay, yeah, that's probably eating up a lot of cost right there. Do we need to get in on our post office pension?
Jason
Now I'm pulling it up and see what it it says. Now, this is just a quick search. Here. It's it's us. Post Office spends over 10 billion per year on pension and retirement related cost.
Ian
10 billion. 10 billion, that's probably what's eating up all that debt, right there.
Jason
Yeah, I said USPS pension funding requirements were over. We're over 10 billion in 2024 he says of that about 5.5 billion goes toward paying down unfunded pension liabilities, old debt.
Ian
Wow. Yeah, that's a lot of money.
Jason
Yeah, total retirement related calls hit about 10 point 3 billion in 2025 Wow, that's pension payments. Retiree. Health benefits and ongoing. And we all know how expensive health insurance is. So, I mean, that's just gets passed down
Ian
over into all Yeah, wow. You know,
Jason
yeah, they say an estimate show roughly 31 billion plus in pension related liabilities still unpaid and growing. Wow. So in essence, what you have is what you've promised, yes, and what, how much money you given you have, basically to pay it, which is always, you'll hear the term the unaccrued liability, yeah, of a system. So depends on this is what you've promised, right? This is actually how much you have, yeah, okay, so that's why a lot of people have gotten rid of pensions. You know, I'm a benefit of a pension. So yeah, of course, I'm very much in favor of them, but I understand, right? There are a lot of people that don't have pensions, right, and they look at you and go, you know, why am I paying your salary right while you're not even working, right? You know? So I get that, yeah, I understand that. But, you know, those are the promises. That's what you signed up, started working, and here we are. Yeah, I serve my time. Man. Tracy tells me all the time and where she works. I mean, she, at one time, had a pension. You did away with
Stoney
it, 401, k's and other things, you know, wow, where you you're basically paying yourself. Yeah, you take some money out, and maybe the company matches it to a certain extent, and then it gets in investments, and hopefully the investments do well. And we found out a while back when they crashed, and so many people lost their retirements and stuff. So, you know, but they've gone away from the pensions because the companies don't want to do that anymore to where, let's help you do your own financial
Jason
that's a way for them to get off
Stoney
the hook. Exactly a way for them to get off the hook.
Jason
They say. USPS is required to fund its own pensions out of operating revenue, not taxpayer funding, like most federal agencies, really. Yeah. So I mean, that's eating into their profit. You know, of staying solvent is they're having to pay that, and that just keeps going up. Yeah, it just does.
Stoney
Maybe it was the US Post Office that brought in the covid thing to start killing off the old,
Ian
wait a minute. Yeah, that's crazy. I wonder if that. I wonder if, like, if I wonder if that would help. I mean, I don't even know. I'm not even recommending that. But like, you close on Saturdays and you stop future pensions, well,
Stoney
they're gonna, you know, if they break them to even more business model, that may be what they do. Yeah, okay, we'll get a 401, K, we'll match your investment. And, you know, hopefully you'll do okay in the in the finance world, right?
Jason
So in this is something in 2006 there was a law that was passed by Congress called the postal accountability and Enhancement Act. Yes, okay, and it was first put forth as a reform, but in reality, it had a financial weight, and it required the USPS to pre fund retiree health benefits decades in advance. What? Yeah, how would that pre fund retiree health benefits decades in advance. Said they weren't just paying current retirees. They were required to set aside money for employees who hadn't even been hired yet.
Ian
Wow. So like having, like, a savings account for future, exactly?
Stoney
Well, basically what it sounds like is Congress is making them put money aside so they can dip into it.
Ian
Yeah, right, yeah.
Jason
They say USPS had to pay roughly five to 6 billion per year into retiree health pre funding alone. Wow, on top of billions more in pension obligations for existing employees. Yeah, so,
Stoney
yeah, that's kind of like they're in Social Security. They're dipping their hands well, we need to build this up.
Ian
Yeah, how many hands you got in the cookie jars?
Jason
And this is, here's the part that changes. It says that most federal agencies, their pensions are backed by the US Treasury. Private Companies fund pensions gradually over time, and the USPS required to aggressively pre fund future benefits using only its own revenue. Wow. No taxpayer operated subsidy, no flexibility, no pause button, really.
Ian
And they still do that.
Jason
Or is that now in 20 in 2000 22 they passed another law. Now they're good at passing laws called the Postal Service Reform Act of 2022 this law eliminated the pre funding mandate
Ian
going forward. Okay, so
Jason
stopped it. It reduced some long term liabilities that helps stabilize the bleeding. But there's a catch. It didn't erase the existing debt that had piled up. Right? So the Postal Service is still carrying 10s of billions in retirement liabilities built up over years of missing all partial payments. It's wild, interesting.
Ian
Oh, yeah, I hope that. I mean, I don't know. I'd hate to see it go. I would. I hope that they are able to work something out. But again, in this new, modern world, who knows what it's gonna look like?
Jason
Too many things working against it right now. Yeah, absolutely.
Ian
If anybody out there has any any stories, or, you know, horror stories or traumatic events from the Postal Service, please let us know about it. I'm curious to hear. Or if you worked
Stoney
for the share some
Ian
of the if you're still getting your pension, let us know. If you got a partial payment. Let us know. But, uh, we have comment sections on YouTube and Spotify where you can send your responses that way, or email address get infinite together@gmail.com, where you can send them more long form responses. Be sure to like and subscribe on whatever platform you listen to us on. We really appreciate it and share, share us out there. Yeah, anybody who think, anybody that you know who may have worked at the Postal Service, either the local person Postal Service lady, I go there occasionally, and she is such a nice individual. And I love talking with Miss Brittany. Yeah, yes, yes,
Stoney
yeah. I love Miss Brittany.
Ian
But anyways, a wonderful person. So anyway, share this with your your local post office individual, and until next week, thank you so much for listening. Bye, bye,
Jason
goodbye everyone, and God bless
Stoney
When you really look at the history of the US Postal Service, one thing becomes impossible to miss. Adaptability is what made it powerful. It kept changing because America kept changing when cities grew. It adapted when rural communities needed service. It adapted when packages mattered more. It adapted when distance demanded speed, it adapted. This is the pattern. So maybe the real question is not whether the USPS still matters. The real question is whether it knows still how to adapt with the same courage that made it matter in the first place. Because what we have now is a country whether the old letter model is fading, the package world is hyper competitive, and the digital world is swallowing more and more of everyday life, and in that kind of moment, survival belongs to the system that can bridge old trust with the new reality. This is where the USPS still has a shot by not trying to relive the past, not by pretending email never happened, not by cutting itself to the bone and calling that innovation, but by beginning reliable and trustworthy again, by becoming the easiest shipping partner for everyday Americans and small businesses, by using its footprint, its reach and public trust in smarter ways. In other words, by adapting like it used to, because the old story of the post office is not really about letters. It was about staying connected across distance, change and time, and if the USPS wants to stay relevant, that mission still works. It just needs a modern form. The country changed, the mission did not now, the adaptability has to come back. Thanks for joining us today. You're the best. Peace.