Episode 13: Finding the Right School for Your Gifted or 2e Child with Dr. Jessica Potts

As any parent of a gifted or twice exceptional child knows, finding a learning environment that's capable of meeting your child's particular needs can be a long and difficult journey. Traditional schools often fall short of providing the academic challenge, learning accommodations, or social-emotional support your child needs to be successful. 

In this episode of the Exceptional Girls Podcast, host Julie Withrow sits down with Dr. Jessica Potts, curriculum coordinator at Davidson Academy Online, to get research-informed advice and practical tips your family can use to evaluate your educational options.

🎧 Listen in as Dr. Potts shares:

• Some of the telltale signs your child may not be in the right learning environment
• How to evaluate a school's ability to support the whole child—academically socially, and emotionally
• Practical tips to more effectively advocate for your child with teachers
• Why an online school can be a great choice for gifted and twice-exceptional learners

About Dr. Jessica Potts:

Dr. Jessica Potts, PhD, is the Curriculum Coordinator at Davidson Academy Online, a fully virtual school for profoundly gifted students. She earned a doctorate from the University of Nevada, Reno in Secondary Education, with an emphasis on gifted education and online learning. Her research focuses on the intersection of these two fields, and along with authoring a chapter in a book on gifted underachievement, she has published articles in Gifted Child Quarterly, Gifted Child Today, Parenting for High Potential, Teaching for High Potential, and EdWeek. Dr. Potts has presented at numerous conferences and has delivered webinars and workshops both online and in-person on topics as wide ranging as online pedagogy, gifted education, administrative organization, social-emotional learning, and parent engagement. She is a four-time recipient of the Blackboard Catalyst Award, a winner of Blackboard’s Exemplary Course Award, a recipient of the J-WEL Vox Innovators Award, and a winner of the World Giftedness Center School Global Award Initiative. Jessica is the incoming NAGC Curriculum Studies Network Chair, serves on the NAGC Professional Standards Committee, leads an ECHA Special Interest Group, and is an ECHA auditor. Dr. Potts and her husband live in the Czech Republic with their sons.

Resources:

https://www.davidsononline.org/blog/is-your-gifted-child-ready-for-online-learning/ 

https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/the-changing-role-of-parents-in-gifted-education-programs/ 

About the Exceptional Girls Podcast:

If you know and care deeply about a girl who learns, thinks, and experiences the world differently, I invite you to journey with me as we learn how we as parents, adults, and role models can help her understand, self-advocate, accept, and love herself — just as she is. To learn more, visit www.exceptionalgirlspodcast.com.

Transcript

Julie Withrow, Host (00:06):

You are listening to the Exceptional Girls Podcast, and I'm your host Julie Withrow. As a mom who raised a twice exceptional young daughter, I know both the joys and the challenges of parenting a child who thinks, learns and experiences the world differently. I also know how lonely it can feel and how long it can take to get answers. I created this podcast to increase awareness, understanding, and acceptance of female neurodivergence. In doing so, I hope to smooth the path for other families. Please join me for expert interviews and candid conversations about giftedness A DHD, autism, dyslexia, and more. Let's learn together how we can make sure our exceptional girls feel seen, supported, and celebrated.

(00:57):

In this episode of the Exceptional Girls Podcast, you'll hear from Dr. Jessica Potts, the curriculum coordinator at Davidson Academy. Online, we talk about the challenges families often face when trying to find the right learning environment for their gifted or twice exceptional child and why online schools can be a great option. Dr. Potts earned a doctorate from the University of Nevada Reno in secondary education with an emphasis on gifted education and online learning. Her research focuses on the intersection of these two fields, and she authored a chapter in a book on gifted under achievement as well as publishing articles in gifted Child, quarterly gifted Child Today, parenting for High Potential, teaching for High Potential and Ed Week. Dr. Potts has presented at numerous conferences and delivered webinars and workshops both online and in person, on topics including online pedagogy, gifted education, social emotional learning, and parent engagement. She and her husband live in the Czech Republic with their sons. Listen in as Dr. Pot shares the signs to look for that a traditional classroom may not be the best fit for your child, and how factors like anxiety or executive function struggles can influence school choice. She also shares practical tips for evaluating both academic rigor and social emotional support even in an online school setting, whether you're just beginning your child's educational journey or actively searching for a new school. This conversation offers research informed insights and actionable guidance to help you make the best educational decisions for your gifted or to e student.

(02:47):

Hi, Dr. Potts. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today.

Dr. Jessica Potts (02:51):

Hi, Julie. Good morning. How's it going?

Julie Withrow, Host (02:53):

Good. So before we get started with our conversation, can you share a little bit about Davidson Academy online for those who may not be familiar?

Dr. Jessica Potts (03:03):

Yeah, absolutely. So Davidson Academy online is a fully virtual, middle and high school for profoundly gifted students, and it's offered to students across the US and across Canada. We have a strong connection with Davidson Academy of Nevada, which is located in Reno, Nevada. They're also a full-time day school for profoundly gifted students, and I love Davidson Academy of Nevada. I taught there for many years, but one of the problems is that students and families would have to relocate to Reno, Nevada in order to attend, and we wanted to come up with something that was available to students everywhere, regardless of where they were. So maybe the families couldn't pick up their lives and move to Reno. So we started this online program. We have been offering online classes since 2015, and then the Foley Virtual School was started up in 2017. So we're pre COVID.

(03:57):

We've been doing this online thing for a long time. And so students who come to us usually do their full schooling experience with us. We do offer some single classes for students who want to take classes just in English or just in math, but most of our students are with us. So we've been going strong for many years and we have around 100 students this year. We have a full staff that is very aware of all of the needs of profoundly gifted students, and they're fully dedicated to our really interesting, unique student population. So that's who we are in a nutshell.

Julie Withrow, Host (04:35):

Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. And that's a great segue into what we're going to talk about today, which is finding the right learning environment for your gifted student or twice exceptional student, right? Because many gifted students will have twice exceptionalities. And having gone through this myself as a parent, it can be really challenging to find the right school learning environment for your kid. And I spoke with your colleague Megan recently, and I know that this is a popular saying. I like to use it. I know you all do as well, that if you've met one gifted kid, you've met one gifted kid, right? Each student is unique, so it isn't like there's a one size fits all when it comes to finding the right situation. But I'm curious for parents who may be kind of questioning is their child in the right situation, should they maybe be looking at something different? Are there some typical signs that maybe the traditional classroom or the classroom they're in is not the best fit for their student?

Dr. Jessica Potts (05:37):

Yeah, that's a great question. I do like that you said that there isn't a one size fits all. Each student is unique. They have a unique combination of needs, and there isn't necessarily a checkbox that we can go down. Does it have this? Does it have this? Does it have, every child is going to have their own checkbox and their own set of unique, and making a move to another school is a really big decision. Like if your child is already in school, and as a parent, I know you want to make sure that that move is going to be positive. And if your child isn't in school yet, then you want to make sure that you're getting off on the right foot. So this is big, right? We want school to be a positive place. I do think it depends a lot on what your goals are as a family.

(06:21):

So if your child is already in school and they're happy, they have friends, they're not complaining about the schoolwork, they're finding intellectual stimulation either in the classroom or in their own individual pursuits, or maybe with enrichment, they might be fine where they are. There is a lot to be said for having a happy holistic environment for your child, and part of that happy holistic experience is their social situation and their comfort with their teacher. So when students come to a place like Davidson, it's usually because something isn't working for them, and that could be strictly academic. Maybe the child really, really values that intellectual stimulation. Maybe they really want to be challenged, maybe they really want to pursue something that is fascinating to them. There could be a social component. We know that some of that social mismatch that we see with gifted students has to do with their asynchronous development, and they really do need to be with their intellectual peers in a lot of cases to feel like they fit in.

(07:29):

But so that decision doesn't have to be strictly academic. If the student is really happy in the regular classroom, it might be a good idea just to supplement the student's learning with enrichment classes rather than switching to a completely different program. So at Davidson, we do have this other program called Davidson Explore, and it is a supplemental enrichment program that students can take after their full-time learning. Usually it's for older elementary students or maybe middle school students, so they could take a single class with us to get that stimulation. That is a great choice for students who are really happy in their regular education in environment. However, of course, we do see that gifted students tend to thrive when they're in that homogenously grouped situation. And part of that is because they do feel like they're more socially at home with students and teachers who get them.

(08:21):

They want to feel like they're with their tribe, they're with their group. There are some signs that parents could look for or things that parents can do to determine whether that regular classroom isn't quite the best fit. And I think first naturally is to listen to your child. What are they saying? What are they saying about their classroom experiences? Are they happy? Are they frustrated? Are they looking for more or better learning experiences? And so I do think there's a lot of benefit to letting your child lead the way to a certain extent. And then as a parent, you can also look at the relationship between the child's abilities, what your child's abilities are, and how they are approaching their schoolwork. So if they're speeding through their homework with no issues and they want to move on to different, more interesting things, perhaps they're not being challenged enough because they're able to just zoom through and it's no big deal to them.

(09:18):

But on the other side, if we see students who are refusing to do their homework, despite having the ability your child has the ability to do this thing and to complete it, well, this could also be a sign that the classroom isn't challenging enough for them. They don't see this homework as valuable. They don't see it as interesting. And so this could be a sign of underachievement. We can also look at the kind of feedback that teachers are providing. So really great teachers, even teachers in the regular education classroom are able to give feedback to gifted students that stimulates them, even if they're getting a hundred percent. And that's kind of what you want to look for. We don't want children to be punished because they're taking academic risks and going above and beyond. But if they are meeting the standards that the teacher has set, is the teacher still able to provide some kind of feedback that pushes the student forward?

(10:13):

Are they able to offer recommendations? Are they giving them challenge problems as opposed to more of the same problems? Are they asking interesting questions, pushing students towards different resources? So if they're getting that kind of feedback, your child is probably with a great teacher. I've heard from parents at Davidson Academy online that they'll review their child's writing and they'll see ways that their child can improve in their writing, but then they're receiving a hundred percent from their teacher with no notes, just like a gold star. And that's not going to stimulate the child's growth. It's not interesting to them. They're not probably in an environment when they're going to be properly challenged or stimulated. You also asked about twice exceptionalism. What do you do if you have a child who is to E? Some teachers don't have a strong understanding of what the needs of twice exceptional students are. And so having a conversation with the school and a conversation with the teachers can tell you a lot about whether that teacher is ready to support that twice exceptional student. And I think the final thing I would say about this question is looking at social relationships. Does your child have friends their own age that they're interested in hanging out with or around their own age? Or are they gravitating towards older students? Do they want to hang out with the teachers?

(11:39):

If that's the case, and there probably is also a social mismatch.

Julie Withrow, Host (11:43):

Yeah, I think there's so much good advice in there. And to me, the biggest takeaway in that is listen to your child. I think that sometimes as parents, particularly when our kids are younger, we are reticent to do that. We think we're supposed to be the parent, we're supposed to have all the answers, and we're supposed to figure this all out for our kids. But having, being farther along in this journey, my kid is in college now, and I wish I had listened to my kid more when they were younger because they were trying to tell me a lot of these things, but I was like, oh, I should be the one to be figuring this out. And I wasn't listening enough.

Dr. Jessica Potts (12:27):

But

Julie Withrow, Host (12:28):

I think a lot of times our kids know what they need and we can listen to that. I am sure there's a lot of parenting theories on that. Some people maybe don't agree with that, but that's where I come from on it. I believe a lot of times these kids are pretty mature that way and they know what they need. We can listen to that and we don't really need to second guess it. I don't think kids act out because they're looking for attention. I think they act out because they're not getting what they need, and there's a lot to learn from that.

Dr. Jessica Potts (13:04):

Absolutely. Or they're not being listened to too.

Julie Withrow, Host (13:07):

So

Dr. Jessica Potts (13:07):

Of course we know a lot as parents, we've been around the block and we're doing our research and we think we know what our child needs. So I think asking questions is a great way, not just to understand what your child needs, but to help your child to understand themselves

Julie Withrow, Host (13:23):

For sure.

Dr. Jessica Potts (13:23):

To cultivate some self-awareness and knowledge.

Julie Withrow, Host (13:26):

Yeah, and I think you touched on this a little bit, particularly twice. Exceptionality certainly can make it a little bit more tricky sometimes because there may be executive functioning challenges and things like that that make it a little harder. And I think certainly though things like anxiety can make it more difficult because there can be school refusal and things like that that kind of come into this that could be kind of symptoms of school not being a good fit, or they could just be symptoms of other things that's going on with your kid. But I'm kind of curious, do you bump into that and have help parents navigate those things as well?

Dr. Jessica Potts (14:05):

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's something that we do quite a lot of at Davidson Academy online. We are very interested in helping our students to develop executive functioning skills to giving them a lot of social emotional support. And I think you're right that you have to find an environment that does have those kinds of supports, that does have those kinds of scaffolds. And a lot of that goes back to whether the school really understands twice exceptionalism and what a twice exceptional student needs. So for example, if the child's gifted characteristics are prominent, but anxiety might be hampering them, maybe the teacher is only seeing the 100% in the classroom. They're only seeing the achievement. I did have a student like this at one point. He was producing just brilliant writing, just beautiful. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And I come to find out later from his mother that he's spending like six hours on a couple of paragraphs because he wants it to be just right. And he's very anxious about giving me his best work.

Julie Withrow, Host (15:09):

And

Dr. Jessica Potts (15:10):

I didn't know that. I wouldn't have known that unless the parent had communicated that to me. And then on the other side, if we're only seeing the learning difference or the struggle, then we're not seeing the gifted characteristics and we're not taking that strength-based approach.

Julie Withrow, Host (15:27):

And

Dr. Jessica Potts (15:27):

I think schools sometimes see one or the other. They don't see both. And having a school that really gets both is really, really important. So I think parents are really going to want to have that discussion with teachers and with support staff about what their child's unique learning profile is. And like you said, they're going to be unique. Every child is a little bit different. And if you have a school that really understands that you're more likely to have a good working environment for the student and also a good collaborative partnership with the school as a family, looking at that scaffolding, I think what you're looking for is whether

Julie Withrow, Host (16:08):

That Yeah, I was going to ask how can you kind of tease that out, right?

Dr. Jessica Potts (16:12):

Absolutely. Yeah. So a question that you can ask yourself as a parent is the executive functioning taught both explicitly and also in conjunction with the rest of the curriculum. So I'm of the opinion that executive functioning and also social emotional learning, which I think we'll chat about a little bit later, is best when it's integrated into the curriculum. So it's not something that's separate

Julie Withrow, Host (16:38):

Right's, not a class. It's not just a class you go to,

Dr. Jessica Potts (16:40):

Right? It's not like, and now we will look at calendars. No, we are in our classroom. Let's put our calendar together. Or we are in our classroom looking at this big assignment. How can we chunk this out to find ways to make it approachable for all students? So if you are looking at the instruction that the teacher is giving and you're noticing that there's lots of executive functioning guidelines and scaffolding, things are broken down, they're giving recommendations for how long things should be taking things like that, that school or that teacher really understands executive functioning and also how to teach executive functioning in manageable ways to students.

Julie Withrow, Host (17:27):

And I think that's so important. It can be hard to evaluate some of these maybe softer skill things when you're looking at a school. It may not be that obvious as you're looking at the curriculum or this, that and the other thing. How do you really tell that? But I think those are great questions to ask to better understand how they integrate these things. Also about the social and emotional piece of it. I think when we think about online school, I'm in a fair number of parent forums and kind of breaks my heart how often I see families posting about moving to other parts of the country or even parts of the world to try to find a better learning situation for their child. And so certainly online learning offers a different alternative where maybe you can stay where you're at and still give your child the learning that they need. But I think we're kind of programmed to believe we have to go move somewhere else to go do that. And maybe part of that is because we believe that they need that in-person experience to have the social experience that they need or the social emotional experience they need. So how do you address that in an online environment? How do you make sure kids get that social side of it if they're in this virtual type of learning situation?

Dr. Jessica Potts (18:49):

Yeah, that's a great question and it's something that it's a question that we field a lot from parents who are interested in moving their kids to online learning. This past weekend, we just had our summer retreat for Davidson Academy online, and it's a really lovely social experience where the students and their families come to Reno, Nevada, and we have a couple of days together where we get to see each other in person, the students play games, we host events for the parents. It really is just kind of a social experience. We like to say in online learning, we only see each other from the shoulders up. And at the retreat we get to see each other's legs. We get to prove that we have legs. And it's really funny to see the different height differences with the students and they have a fantastic time together.

(19:40):

And those kinds of events are really vital for online learning programs. Do we have the summer retreat? Do we have a winter retreat? Are we actively cultivating social experiences for students? We like to take a holistic approach to gifted education at Davidson Academy online. So they're not just little brains walking around. They are full human beings. They need to have social experiences, they need to have communal experiences with folks who are going through the same things that they are. So we have a lot of things that are actually integrated into our program at Davidson Academy online, we have an advisory program called Oracle where students are grouped in little, we call them houses kind of like Harry Potter, where they have a mythological creature that represents their house and they get to play games with the small group. They get to talk through issues that are important to them.

(20:35):

They do work on some executive functioning things. They do work on some social emotional things, but we made time out of our academic day for that. And students meet in their house once a week to ensure that they have that touchpoint. We also have clubs. We have student council activities. So it's something that we take very seriously. So if it's something that you are worried about as a parent, is my child going to have these social experiences? Those are the kinds of things that you want to look at. Does the program actually promote social experiences? Does it make time out for them? Does it give the students time to just be students together and not be so concerned about academics 24 hours a day?

Julie Withrow, Host (21:18):

Yeah, I mean, I think that is so important. And are there other things like when evaluating an online program, whether that's Davidson or something else, what are the other things that parents might want to look at? Because it's not like you can tour the school like you would in real life type of a way. So when you're touring and I'm air quoting a virtual school, what else are you looking for? What are some other things that might be important to look at?

Dr. Jessica Potts (21:49):

Well, of course, the academic side, we want to look and see what the academic experience actually looks like for your child. Are they going to be working asynchronously in their room by themselves all day every day? We don't want that. Don't the student to just be sitting at the computer without any kind of interaction. Of course, we're using technology when we're learning online, but we want the technology to be a bridge between people. So are we choosing the right platforms and the right tools that are bringing people together? When we ask students to write things on the discussion board, are there clear guidelines about how often they should be responding to their peers and what those responses should look like and how we support each other as a writing community? Do we have synchronous live sessions? Are we meeting on Zoom together? How many times a week are we doing that?

(22:42):

Are there other tools such as Padlet, which is a really nice kind of corkboard type of situation where you can leave ideas, you can also leave videos, you can leave pictures. Are there those kinds of tools being used to promote connection between students as opposed to students just kind of throwing information out there into the void? So if you are touring these schools and you are seeing an emphasis on connection and an emphasis on building a learning community and working collaboratively, you know are in the place that values those kinds of things, it's not just sitting and learning by yourself every day.

Julie Withrow, Host (23:25):

And I think that's so important. And I do think there are ways you can suss that out, as you said, because they are going to have to rely very heavily on technology to do that naturally. But there are, and EdTech is a space that I work in quite a lot, and there are a lot of really cool that you can use to facilitate that. And I think you can look for those kinds of things that do really foster this type of interactivity and really get kids working together, not just lasered in on the screen all the time. There's a different way to do that. So yeah, I think that's a really thoughtful answer and just some stuff to look for that people may not understand. I think sometimes tech gets a bad rap and tech is really a tool and it really can be super useful when used the right way. Yeah,

Dr. Jessica Potts (24:23):

Absolutely. I agree. And it's something we tell our teachers as well. Like you said, there are so many pieces of EdTech out there. You could be looking at EdTech apps all day and to never really exhaust the list. And so we tell our teachers, there is no pressure to use every single app out there. You want to find the one or two that bring your students together. If you're using tech for the sake of tech, it's probably not good tech. If you're using it to create human connection and it's working well for your students and there's no barriers, that's probably the right tech to use.

Julie Withrow, Host (24:57):

That's right. Tech can very much be a crutch or it can be this connector. We were talking about a tool like Kahoot, which we actually, we used as a team in my last job just because it was fun. We used it for team building as adults. Just it was a fun thing for us to do as a team. There's some very cool tools you can use that way that the kids love, adults love. It kind of works for everybody. It's very interactive.

Dr. Jessica Potts (25:25):

Yes.

Julie Withrow, Host (25:26):

So one thing that I want to bring up is I know thinking back to when I was looking at schools for my own child, I remember always kind of wishing that if I had just found the right school, maybe I could rest easy and not have to advocate so hard. If I could just find that right environment, then I could really not have to engage so much as a parent truthfully, because I felt like I did so much advocating

(25:57):

When we were not in the right environments. But I'm not sure your job is ever done that way as a parent, at least when your kid's in primary, even in secondary a little bit, there's still a fair bit that you may have to do. So even if they're in a school, four gifted kids or two E kids where they really get it, there may still be some advocacy that you have to do as a parent for your kid just to make sure that they're getting their needs met, especially as you're kind of finding your way in the beginning.

(26:25):

So

(26:26):

As an educator, what's a good way, what's a productive way for a parent to have that collaboration with you? What does that look like? How can we do that? Well,

Dr. Jessica Potts (26:38):

I love that question. I love it. I run one of the parent groups at Davidson Academy online where we just foster parent to parent connections and I run another group, another parent group for echa, which is that European Council for high ability. And we talk about this all the time. How could parents and families actually work together in order to best advocate for gifted students? And I think one really important thing that parents can figure out early on is what the school is able to do.

(27:10):

So it depends a lot on the size of your school and the amount of resources that they can give to a single child. So most of the time, schools have to think about the bigger picture. They have to think about all of the students who are in their school and all of their needs. And sometimes it's difficult for them to give a certain amount of resources to a single child. But having that conversation with the teachers and with administrators and with counselors early and having this open, collaborative, productive conversation is really important. So you will understand what the school is able to provide. And then also telling the school, this is what I'm able to do. Here's how I see my role as a parent. Here are things that I can also do for you. So if you're able to tell the school, I'm able to do this thing, I can volunteer in this way, here's something I'm good at, I guarantee you're going to be in with that school.

(28:08):

Because they're like, oh, you can do this thing. That's fantastic. We would love to use that energy. So having those conversations super duper important. I would also say it's really important to request a meeting. I know sometimes as parents, we think, oh, I'm just going to pop in at the end of the school day and ask a question and see if I can talk for maybe 10, 15 minutes with that teacher. The teacher doesn't always have that space right then and there, but if you're able to request a meeting and to say, this is specifically what it's about, here are the things I would like to talk about. I think you're going to wind up with a much more productive conversation because the teacher will be able to prepare the right information for you. They're going to dedicate that time and space for you. They're going to be very open to listening because they're not rushing off to something else. So requesting that meeting I think is very important.

(29:05):

Another thing you can think about as well, and this is a little bit different, I think perhaps is as you find programs that work well for you and your family is moving away from advocating for your child and teaching them how to self-advocate, I think it's a really, really vital skill. And that doesn't mean you're gone. It doesn't mean you back off completely and it's completely on you kid. It means you are telling them how to say, these are my needs. Here are the things that I'm hoping for. Can I try this special thing? Whatever it is, whatever the child is interested in and getting them to speak with their teachers, it's going to be a lifelong skill for them. And that can be really difficult for parents. I wrote an article earlier this year, maybe it was last year, and it's called The Changing Role of Parents in Gifted Education Programs.

(30:00):

And I wrote it for Parenting for High Potential through NAGC. And it talks about the transition that parents have to go through as they move into gifted programs. So the kids will have a transition because they're moving from a regular education classroom to a gifted program. And there's a lot of changes that go along with that. There's a lot of changes for parents as well. They're moving from being that lead advocate or sometimes that lead teacher because they've been homeschooling into that support role, and that's hard. And so understanding that change might be happening and that are giving some of the power to the school and some of the power to your child, that's difficult. So just understanding that a change is going to be taking place is pretty important.

Julie Withrow, Host (30:45):

I mean, that really is, and I will say there's a few takeaways in that for me. One is really understanding that you as a parent, you and the school are in this together. You're not adversaries. And I do think sometimes there can be this sort of, especially if you're a little frustrated that your student isn't getting what they need, you can come at it from this sort of adversarial place, and that's never going to be a productive place to come from. You always have to come at it with a curiosity, a consideration, and a, let's work this out together. It's like any relationship. I think that's a good healthy way to look at it, is we have a relationship here that we have to try to maintain. And to your point, setting a meeting, giving a heads up what the meeting is about, what you want to discuss so that the educator, the teacher can be prepared for that meeting.

(31:38):

You're not going to spring it on 'em. They know what we're going to talk about. It's just like good, healthy relationship dynamics you can bring to this that will make it go a lot better. But your point about teaching your child to self-advocate is such an important one because if you have a younger child and you haven't gone through this transition yet, if you've been heavily advocating for your child, say in elementary, when they go to middle school, you'll start to feel teachers wanting you to step out. And when they get to high school, you'll really feel it, right? Teachers are like, you have to teach your child to do that. You can't continue. I don't want to use the helicopter term, but you just can't continue to do that. It just doesn't work. And they really need to learn how to do it, especially if they go off to college.

(32:32):

They don't have an IEP and all these things anymore. They've got to learn how to ask for what they need. They just don't have those built-in accommodations and things. They have to be able to self-advocate. So I know having gone through all these transitions, if there's one thing that I'm glad I did was really teach my own child how to ask for what they need. And they're very good at it now, but it was a learning. Some of that was modeling, some of that was coaching them how to do it, and some of it was letting them try it and have it sometimes not go so well and then let to talk about that and talk about how you could do it better. But there is this, that skill is so important and it will serve them well in so many aspects of life later on beyond school. Of

Dr. Jessica Potts (33:25):

Course. I agree. Yes. Yeah.

Julie Withrow, Host (33:27):

So as we wrap up, I want to acknowledge that it can be really stressful and challenging to find the right school for your child, especially when they're gifted or twice exceptional. I remember when I first learned that my own child was gifted. And then as we struggled with learning environments, and we did, we changed schools three times in four or five years trying to find the right learning environment. And then of course, we learned about twice exceptionalities that were involved. That made it even more challenging. And it was my number one stressor as a parent, just feeling a lot of one responsibility to find an environment that was going to challenge my kid because I knew that Remy was just kind of bored and not in the right place, and then was in a place where they really didn't get Remy and were just getting a lot of negative redirection that was also not productive, and it was just a major stressor trying to find that right learning environment. And for a parent who's in that place right now who might be listening to this podcast as an educator and someone who helps guide people probably through some of this, what advice do you have for those parents to help them get through what might be a bumpy period?

Dr. Jessica Potts (34:48):

Yeah, I have a lot of sympathy for those parents. I really get it. I really understand. It's one of the hardest things that I think parents of gifted students have to go through, especially if your child's twice exceptional.

(35:02):

There's plenty of research out there that says that parents of twice exceptional students sometimes have to work twice as hard to make sure that their child's needs are being met. I've had that struggle myself. So a lot of sympathy for folks who are in the trenches trying to figure it out. I think the most important piece of advice I can give is that you're not alone. There are lots of other parents who are in the same boat, and I think you should talk with those parents specifically. A lot of parents don't understand giftedness. They don't understand twice exceptionality, and they don't necessarily to hear about the struggles that you're having with your brilliant child. They have struggles of their own. So if you are talking with parents of gifted students of twice exceptional students, you don't have to explain a whole lot. You don't have to explain the background.

(35:51):

You can just talk about the experiences you're having, and they'll be like, yes, yes, I get it. So talk with those parents, see what challenges they have worked through, what successes they have, what's worked for them, and then you may be able to find things that you can also take for yourself. We talked earlier about open houses as well. Attend those open houses. If you have the time, if you're able to pop in and to see what's going on with the school, that's a really great way to get a fit or feel for a program to see if it's going to be a good fit for you. So we host open houses for Davidson Academy online and for Davidson Explore. And if you go to davidson online.org, you can see all the information about that. But a lot of online programs are going to have these kinds of open houses where you can see exactly what the learning day is going to look like.

(36:40):

You can ask questions, you can see if they're doing the social emotional learning, if they're doing the executive functioning training. So going to those kinds of things is really important. I think the last piece of advice I have is that the right fit might not be the perfect fit. And I think sometimes we're looking for, it's got to be perfect, it's got to have everything, but I think you have to figure out what your non-negotiables are for your gifted child or your twice exceptional child. What are the things that are a must? Is it the academic acceleration? Is it the social emotional learning? Is it a strong counseling presence? Who's able, these folks are able to help your child through any struggles that they might be having? Figure out what those non-negotiables are, and if that program is able to tick most of those boxes, it could be worth a try. So keeping that holistic fit in mind, not just the academic fit, I think is going to be really helpful in your journey.

Julie Withrow, Host (37:38):

Yeah, that's great advice. It reminds me, some people may relate to this, some may not, but I use a weighted decision matrix to make these decisions where I have all my criteria and certain things have different weights, and it's a very data-driven way to make decisions. I mean, I make a lot of gut decisions too, but when it comes to this stuff where it can be, it's easy to kind of get spin out about all the many variables. I like to look at a weighted decision matrix, and it's very helpful.

Dr. Jessica Potts (38:06):

I love it. That's executive functioning at work, right?

Julie Withrow, Host (38:08):

Yeah, it really is. It's also kind of a nerdy way to do things, but it works. I love it. Sometimes it kind of, it makes it very black and white. It makes it easier to kind be like, okay, yeah, this makes sense. This helps me. This helps me really figure out what matters and prioritize on what matters most. And I think that's great advice because it is easy to get lost. There's a lot of variables, and then you can kind of get into this analysis paralysis. So yeah, has been a great conversation. I really appreciate you sharing your insights with us and sharing your experiences. And I know you have a ton. I know you've got a deep level of experience in education and particularly gifted education, and I know that this is going to be such a valuable resource for our listeners. So thank you so much for sharing it with us today.

Dr. Jessica Potts (38:58):

Yeah, it's my pleasure. It was a really nice conversation, and I really hope that some of the things today are helpful to some parents out there.

Julie Withrow, Host (39:09):

Thanks for tuning in to the Exceptional Girls Podcast. If you liked today's episode, it would mean the world to me. If you'd subscribe, leave a rating and review and recommend it to just one other person who you think would benefit from listening. Even a small act of support helps the podcast reach more people, which in turn helps increase awareness and understanding of exceptionality in girls. And if you have suggestions for future episodes, please share them. You can connect with me your host, Julie Trow, through our website@exceptionalgirlspodcast.com slash contact.