Episode 15: What It's Really Like to Be a Gifted Girl with Kaia Vernon-Oliveira

In this episode of the Exceptional Girls Podcast, I’m talking with Kaia Vernon-Oliveira. This episode is a departure from my recent episodes in that I’m not talking with a clinician or recognized professional, but with an actual exceptional girl.

Kaia is a profoundly gifted 11-year-old storyteller and performer who loves making people think. One of the ways she’s doing this is through her TedxLasVegas talk called The Myth of the Gifted Girl. 

🎧 Listen in as Kaia shares:

• What inspired her to present a TED Talk
• Eye-opening insights from her research into giftedness in girls
• The best and hardest parts of being a gifted girl
• Her advice for struggling girls — and their parents

About Kaia Vernon-Oliveira:

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira is a profoundly gifted student, writer, and performing artist who attends Nasri Academy for Gifted Children in Las Vegas and the Davidson Young Scholars program. Known for her bold curiosity, emotional depth, and comedic timing, Kaia uses her platform to advocate for equity in gifted education, especially for girls. A multiracial 11-year-old storyteller and performer, Kaia loves making people think. When she’s not deep in debate, reading, writing, or building a prototype for her next big idea, she can be found on stage. From dancing to acting, she loves putting on a good show. She has performed with Rainbow Company Youth Theatre, Dynamic Performing Arts Center, Drama Kids of Las Vegas, and Bright Star Acting Academy. Kaia also loves comedy. Whether delivering a monologue or cracking a joke (the bluer, the better!), she believes her words have the power to move people—to action, to laughter, and if she’s lucky, both. Whatever she chooses to do with her life, Kaia plans to use her creativity and talents to empower girls and make the world a better place for everyone. 

A fan of TED Talks since kindergarten, Kaia delivered a TEDxLasVegas talk that marked one of the few public talks addressing giftedness through the lens of gender and neurodiversity. Watch Kaia's TEDxLasVegas talk on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoEKdXIRQRg&t=58s  

About the Exceptional Girls Podcast:

If you know and care deeply about a girl who learns, thinks, and experiences the world differently, I invite you to journey with me as we learn how we as parents, adults, and role models can help her understand, self-advocate, accept, and love herself — just as she is. To learn more, visit www.exceptionalgirlspodcast.com.

Transcript

Julie Withrow, Host (00:06):

You are listening to the Exceptional Girls Podcast, and I'm your host Julie Withrow. As a mom who raised a twice exceptional young daughter, I know both the joys and the challenges of parenting a child who thinks, learns and experiences the world differently. I also know how lonely it can feel and how long it can take to get answers. I created this podcast to increase awareness, understanding, and acceptance of female neurodivergence. In doing so, I hope to smooth the path for other families. Please join me for expert interviews and candid conversations about giftedness, ADHD, autism, dyslexia, and more. Let's learn together how we can make sure our exceptional girls feel seen, supported, and celebrated.

(00:54):

In this episode of the Exceptional Girls Podcast, I'm talking with Kaia Vernon-Oliveira. This episode is a departure from my recent episodes in that I'm not talking with a clinician or a recognized professional, but with an actual exceptional girl. Kaia is a profoundly gifted 11-year-old storyteller and performer who loves making people think. One of the ways she's doing this is through a TED Talk that she delivered debunking the misperceptions about giftedness in girls. After hearing her talk, I immediately recognized that we share a mission to support accurate and earlier identification of giftedness in girls. I knew I had to get to know this amazing young woman better and amplify her message. So without further ado, please listen in as Kaia shares her story.

(01:46):

Hi, Kaia, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I'm really excited to have you here. Of course. Thank you for having me. So we're going to talk today about what it's like to be a gifted girl, and I'm excited to have this conversation. It's been a long time since I've had a conversation with someone younger. The last one I did was with my own kiddo when she was younger. So I think this is going to be a fun conversation for you and certainly for our listeners as well. The way I found out about you was through your TED Talk. For people who haven't heard that yet, can you share a little bit about what inspired you to do that talk and talk about your giftedness?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (02:36):

Yeah. It all started last year when my theater teacher at the time had us do these mock TED Talks. They were on pretty simple topics, but they had me thinking about the subject of TEDxes. So when TEDxLas Vegas came around, my mom had met the organizer once, so she mentioned it to me. I remember telling her that I wanted to do a TED Talk and her laughing and saying, yeah, maybe someday. I told her I want to do this TED Talk, not another one in the future, this one.

Julie Withrow, Host (03:14):

Wow. So tell me a little bit about that experience. So were you super nervous or did you feel pretty confident giving the TED Talk? 

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (03:23):

Originally I felt nervous and really scared about doing it because this was my first time I'd gotten up on a really big stage in front of this huge audience, and I felt like this is the beginning of the future almost. But I practiced a lot and through that practice I came to become comfortable with my voice and understand that I am an expert on this topic and I deserve to be given this TED Talk.

Julie Withrow, Host (03:57):

Yeah, I love that perspective that you are an expert on this topic. So how old were you when you did that TED Talk and how old are you now?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (04:06):

I was 11 years old, how old I am now when I gave my TED Talk, and I was a few weeks shy of my eighth birthday when I took the giftedness test and was diagnosed as profoundly gifted.

Julie Withrow, Host (04:23):

So since it's been a few years since you first got that identification, do you remember what it felt like to get that information then? What did it mean to you to be gifted?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (04:38):

I didn't really understand what being gifted was. All I really knew was that I'm joining a small percent of the population and being profoundly gifted 0.1%, so even smaller. Now, I do understand that being gifted is a type of neurodiversity, gifted people's minds operate in ways that are different from the neurotypical.

Julie Withrow, Host (05:05):

So now that you have that perspective and you've lived with this identification for a while, does it help explain for you some things? Do you feel more confident or comfortable with who you are, would you say?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (05:21):

Yeah, I feel like I understand that it wasn't a problem with me. In fact, it's a gift to be gifted and I'm really lucky to be gifted.

Julie Withrow, Host (05:31):

Yeah. So before, did you feel like maybe you didn't fit or there was something wrong with you? I'm air quoting.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (05:41):

Yeah. I felt like there was something wrong with me and that my brain wasn't right, and I remember kids making fun of me at my old school for being different and my mind working in weird ways.

Julie Withrow, Host (05:56):

Yeah. Can you give me an example of that? What do you mean that your mind worked in weird ways? How were you different from other kids?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (06:04):

I was more visual spatial. I could see things that weren't actually there in a math problem. I'd be quicker to visualize it then go straight to the numbers.

Julie Withrow, Host (06:17):

Yeah, and I know I can imagine that because you had this different ability that, I mean, it colors a lot of your experiences, I think. So that's one example. But I'm sure there's many others where you just sort of experience things differently as a result. Yes.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (06:39):

Yeah,

Julie Withrow, Host (06:39):

Exactly. Yeah. So in your talk, you identified several misperceptions about gifted kids and particularly about girls, and that's the whole point of your TEDx talk was to debunk some of these myths about what it means to be gifted. Can you share what you wish people better understood about gifted girls?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (07:06):

Gifted girls tend to gravitate toward fine and performing arts where gifted boys often gravitate toward math and science. This isn't always the case, but since STEM areas are often what people think of in terms of giftedness, it means that gifted girls are often not identified. I think that it's important to understand how gifted girls think and behave. For example, we can be emotionally intense, especially at night. We are often early readers and very verbal. While gifted kids struggle in social emotional areas, gifted girls are actually often very well developed in these areas. So even what we think of as gifted is based on boys or males. I want to ensure that gifted girls are a part of gifted research so that we're understood more easily identified and supported.

Julie Withrow, Host (08:05):

And that's what I really loved about your talk because we share a mission that way. That's also the point of the podcast for me. That's why I started it in the first place because my own child, my daughter at the time, had the same challenges. Getting some sort of answer around why she felt so different, why she learned differently, why she experienced everything differently, and getting those answers took way too long. It took a lot of back and forth and a lot of different diagnoses. I don't really like that word. I like to use identification. I don't like to pathologize these differences. But yeah, it took years to finally figure it out. I think it wasn't until she was almost 15 when we really kind of got the full picture. But yeah, I mean, the research definitely skews towards males, and we know that. And so how do you hope that your talk is going to help shift things? Tell me a little bit about how you visualize that. What do you hope the future looks like?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (09:15):

I feel like this and many other opportunities that I've been given are to increase visibility for my TEDx talk so that more people can understand gifted girls and realize that we need to be identified and supported so that we can reach our full potential.

Julie Withrow, Host (09:33):

Yeah. You did some of your own research as part of giving your talk. What made you curious to do that? What made you curious to really dig into the research as part of giving your talk?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (09:52):

I noticed differences between the gifted girls and boys in my school, and I wanted to see if my teacher saw it too. So I made a survey with multiple different questions that would give me the answers that I needed. And in the end, over 50% did recognize perfectionism in girls. 58% said that gifted girls are likely to downplay their abilities to fit. In the end, I was disappointed. I thought that at least 70% would see perfectionism in girls, and I got those results back. I realized that it is my job to help all educators understand what it's like to be a gifted girl.

Julie Withrow, Host (10:35):

Yeah. Were there some other surprising things maybe that you found? I know that that was a disappointing result, right? What were some other things that you found in that maybe were surprising? Was there any good stuff you found, or was it mostly more like, gosh, I wish people understood better?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (10:53):

It was mainly wanting to be understood. Most educators did recognize that gifted girls participate in class discussions, but for us, it can be hard to get a word in because gifted boys, as I mentioned in my TEDx doc, take up a lot of space that made me realize that teachers not only saw that we spoke, but they didn't realize what we had to say and they didn't hear us.

Julie Withrow, Host (11:18):

So how did doing that research change the way you think about things?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (11:26):

The research didn't change the way I see myself for gifted girls. What it did was show me that a lot of teachers, even at small gifted schools like mine, are unaware of gender-based gifted differences. They don't understand how damaging perfectionism and comparison can be for us.

Julie Withrow, Host (11:48):

That I think is so, so important, and particularly for parents listening. I think it's important as a parent who's farther along on my journey than maybe some parents listening, my child is now off to college. I think sometimes we want to believe that if we can just put our child in a school that specializes in gifted kids, that now we can rest easy because they're going to get it. But I think we had the same experience where just because we found that school and I got my child into that school, the teachers still didn't totally get it right. And my child suffered some damage as a result of that. And it's really some of the very same things that you're saying. We still have a lot of education to do around the differences between how giftedness presents in girls versus boys. And it's interesting that your research showed that too. And I'm sure, well, you've already said it, right? That's also been your personal lived experience, which also validates that.

(13:03):

That kind of goes into another question that I want to ask, and it's around finding the right learning environment. I know in my experience, that was really challenging, and it can be challenging academically just to find the right environment where we feel like our child can be challenged and get what they need. But there's certainly a social and emotional component to that as well. Maybe finding the peer group where our child kind of finds their people, the kids where they can find some commonality with. You mentioned that you felt different from other kids, particularly when you were younger and maybe some kids at school weren't the kindest to you. Has that improved as you've gotten older? Have you found environments that work better for you now?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (13:58):

Yes. So let's go back. My most recent and probably most real struggle is math. Ever since I've changed schools, I've struggled at math. Although I was ahead at my old school, the kids at my new school were miles ahead of me. At my old school, I was given no special attention, despite the obvious fact that I was ahead of my peers. Although in earlier grades, it didn't really matter. Since we weren't doing real learning, it started to get boring in kindergarten. And then when there was COVID-19, and I did school online, I realized that despite my friends who were in my class standing up and leaving the computer entirely, I was more focused, and I really learned better in that environment. So that's what really made my mom think about me being gifted.

Julie Withrow, Host (15:03):

I think it's interesting because my kiddo had the same experience. I know a lot of kids suffered through remote learning during COVID, but my kid thrived loved remote learning. And it sounds to me like you probably kind of loved that too. Yes,

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (15:18):

Yes. I really enjoyed the online learning. I really felt that just something about that really made my brain work better. And socially, at my old school, I was sitting with teachers and I only had one friend that was a kid in my class. One day she wasn't there. And I heard the teachers talking amongst themselves saying that if she doesn't get more friends, her life's not going to pan out well. And to them, I say, look at me now.

Julie Withrow, Host (15:53):

I know, well, this is a whole other conversation, but I think that our society, our culture has this bias towards this extroversion, and we have this way that we think people need to be. And there is something to be said for, and I don't like to simplify extroversion, introversion, but there are some people who just don't have that same need, and that's okay. You know what I mean? Or they just don't exhibit it the same way. But it sounds to me like maybe you bumped into that a little bit.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (16:25):

Yeah, definitely.

Julie Withrow, Host (16:27):

When you feel different from kids, other kids, I mean, I imagine it still happens from time to time. Yeah. So how do you handle that when it happens? What are some of the things that you've learned to do for yourself to deal with those situations?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (16:44):

So my mom is always there. She listens when I want to talk about these situations, and she also gives me really good advice about it. She even gives me advice sometimes when I don't want it, but that's okay because she's my greatest advocate and always on my team. I love theater. I love to act. It gives me the words to say hard things. That's also how I expand my vocabulary. Additionally, ballet, it gives me something physical to do with my body. Stretching also helps me to loosen up. I can be a little rigid and uptight. In fact, in my preschool, my teacher joked that I was gunning for her job because every time a kid would get out of line or do something wrong, I would always ensure that they did the right thing. I enjoy breathing exercises. Most times I don't meditate, but just focusing on slowing my breath and finding my center helps to get my body into a better, I love reading books to get my mind off of something big. I've recently discovered the genre of comedic memoirs.

Julie Withrow, Host (18:01):

Oh, really? So tell me more about that.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (18:04):

So it's typically memoirs written by SNL cast members, past and current. My favorite book is Colin Jost, A very punchable face, but I have a lot of favorites.

Julie Withrow, Host (18:17):

Yeah. Well, I know that comedy is one of your things. Yes,

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (18:22):

Yes.

Julie Withrow, Host (18:24):

Yeah. And I'm sure that's a great creative outlet.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (18:27):

Yeah, exactly. We all need our outlets, and some people have their golfing, but I have my comedy.

Julie Withrow, Host (18:36):

Well, and I think you mentioned that you have maybe sort of a unique sense of humor too. Yes, yes.

(18:47):

Well, and I think that comes with intelligence sometimes. Not sometimes all the time, I'll say, because not everybody understands your sense of humor, perhaps. I know I've experienced that as well. Exactly. Yeah. I want to talk about something for a minute that I didn't actually plan to talk about, but I want to dig into it for a second because I remember my own daughter and I having this conversation, there is such a predominant focus on stem, and like you, my child, they use them pronouns actually are very much a humanities type of person and loved theater, all the saints, loved art, all those things. And today loves history and medieval history in particular, but felt this pressure to be more STEM focused because there's such a focus on stem in schools. And I think if you're gifted, people really want to push you towards stem. Have you experienced that? And what's your feeling about it? Because I feel like the arts are not as encouraged.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (20:01):

Yes. I feel like at my school, I'm privileged to have a good arts program, but I do feel a little bit of a push to go into the STEM field when I too enjoy art. And that section,

Julie Withrow, Host (20:19):

I know this is something that I don't know, this may be my next advocacy project. I do feel like, I mean, not that STEM isn't important. I mean, of course it is, but that doesn't mean it's for everybody, and it doesn't mean all of our gifted kids should be pushed towards doing those sorts of innovations. I mean, I think there's real value in the arts, and sometimes we diminish it a little bit.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (20:43):

Exactly.

Julie Withrow, Host (20:45):

I know. Anyway. Well I to ask about that because I know that you're an arts type of a kid, and I love that actually. I think it's, like I said, it's just as important as any of the other subjects that they like to focus on. So to shift gears a little bit, what is it that you like most about being gifted? And I actually want to change that a little bit about your particular flavor of giftedness, because we all know not all gifted kids are the same, but what is it that you like most about who you are

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (21:18):

Today? I enjoy the opportunities that I've been given, such as this podcast, being able to advocate for gifted girls. I also really enjoy the built-in community. I love the programs that I've been able to do, such as Davidson Explore and Art of problem solving programs that are made exclusively for gifted children. And I feel really privileged that I've been able, that I have access to these programs and I've been able to participate.

Julie Withrow, Host (21:47):

Yeah. And there really are. I mean, there are some really cool programs out there. Yeah, I've talked with folks at the Davidson Institute and have some relationships there, and they have some really cool stuff going on. And then what's the hardest part about it? I know we've talked about it a little bit, but personally, what are some of the things that you just wish people understood better on a day to day? Not on the macro level, not on the research level, but just on the day to day.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (22:15):

For me, being emotionally intense at night and feeling all of the pains of the day. How come crashing down when I'm trying to go to sleep? I also hate perfectionism. The pressure that I put on myself to live up to the title gifted, that it can be taken away if I'm not smart enough or acting enough also being labeled gifted, which is also hard because I am my own person and not just my title.

Julie Withrow, Host (22:45):

Yeah. Yep. I understand that. I know there can be this pressure. People have these expectations of you, especially if they don't understand it, they only think about the achievement piece of it and maybe don't understand some of the other nuances of what it feels like to actually go through life experiencing things a little bit differently from everybody else. Yes.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (23:07):

Yes.

Julie Withrow, Host (23:08):

So through your TED Talk, I feel like you did something so brave. You really made yourself visible to raise awareness of giftedness in girls. So do you think you'll keep doing advocacy work? And if so, what's next for you?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (23:26):

Advocacy is definitely something inevitable in my future. I feel like everyone is on earth for a purpose, and mine definitely includes advocacy and making the world a better place for the next generation of gifted girls. I have a couple speaking gigs coming up, coupled with my mom's business in leading workshops and a webinar. Some issues that matter to me are immigration, climate change, accessible housing, food, and clean water. In fact, I wanted to have my ninth birthday at a soup kitchen, but I was too young to volunteer. So my mom and I instead volunteered to deliver food to people who are immunocompromised and couldn't access food.

Julie Withrow, Host (24:17):

Yeah, that's really cool. So when you think, I mean, I know you're still young, but I also know what it feels like to kind of have this sense of wanting to make the world a better place. Have you thought about what you want the rest of your life to look like? Have you thought about careers or things like that?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (24:37):

I'm not sure. As you mentioned, I'm still very young. I dunno. But I'm definitely curious in the law field. In fact, I signed my name, Kay Vernon Oliveira, Esquire at the end of some of my emails. So definitely being a lawyer or even a judge is very interesting to me. Then additionally doing professional dance. In fact, I do dance as I mentioned before, ballet, and it seems really fun to me, even though I know it doesn't make the most of money.

Julie Withrow, Host (25:14):

Yeah, I know that there's the dilemma, right, that you'll have to face at some point. Do you follow your heart or do you follow the money? And I will say, follow your heart and the money will come. But I dunno, not everybody may agree with me. So finally, I always like to end the podcast with a similar question, and my question for you is, if you were imagining on the other side of your microphone that there's a gifted girl listening who's really struggling with being different or wishing that maybe she were more neurotypical or neuron normative, what advice would you give her?

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (25:57):

Find your people and your support system. They're going to be the ones that help you remember your gifts in the moments where you might doubt them. Understand that being gifted isn't your identity. You have your own personality. My social studies teacher recently told us my class, that highly intelligent people often outperform gifted people because gifted people typically have it easy in the early years, so they struggle with grit and perseverance, whereas highly intelligent people need to persevere, yet they still have that intelligence. So in the end, find your passions. Work hard, but not too hard, and forge your own path. Additionally, for all the parents of gifted girls or girls that you think may be gifted, get them tested. We need you to help us become identified and supported so that we can reach our full potential.

Julie Withrow, Host (26:52):

Well said. Kaia, thank you so much for being here. I am really excited to see what you do next. I think you've already done some really important work with your TEDx talk, and I'm sure that you're going to do some really great things in the future.

Kaia Vernon-Oliveira (27:08):

Thank you.

Julie Withrow, Host (27:10):

To watch or listen to Kaia's TEDxLasVegas talk, I've provided a link to the YouTube recording in the episode notes.

Thanks for tuning in to the Exceptional Girls Podcast. If you liked today's episode, it would mean the world to me. If you'd subscribe, leave a rating and review and recommend it to just one other person who you think would benefit from listening. Even a small act of support helps the podcast reach more people, which in turn helps increase awareness and understanding of exceptionality in girls. And if you have suggestions for future episodes, please share them. You can connect with me, your host, Julie Withrow, through our website: https://exceptionalgirlspodcast.com/contact.