Dierdre Whitehead spent a number of years in Alaska where she and her husband were bush pilots- delivering mail, groceries, things that were need in the back countries and islands.
They spotted for herring, which could sometimes be a bit nerve-wracking.
As an employee with the newspaper, she worked in the darkroom, developing photos. An art that might be long gone since everything is now digital.
Her passion, though, was when she discovered Brain Integration and how to administer it to alleviate attention deficit disorder, learning disabilities, and more.
Links for more information:
Crossinology
Prescott Brain Integration
Nancyology
A Revolutionary Way of Thinking Dr Charles Krebs
Subscribe to the Women of the Northwest podcast for inspiring stories and adventures.
Find me on my website: jan-johnson.com
Dierdre Whitehead spent a number of years in Alaska where she and her husband were bush pilots- delivering mail, groceries, things that were need in the back countries and islands.
They spotted for herring, which could sometimes be a bit nerve-wracking.
As an employee with the newspaper, she worked in the darkroom, developing photos. An art that might be long gone since everything is now digital.
Her passion, though, was when she discovered Brain Integration and how to administer it to alleviate attention deficit disorder, learning disabilities, and more.
Links for more information:
Crossinology
Prescott Brain Integration
Nancyology
A Revolutionary Way of Thinking Dr Charles Krebs
Subscribe to the Women of the Northwest podcast for inspiring stories and adventures.
Find me on my website: jan-johnson.com
[00:02] Jan: Are you looking for an inspiring listen, something to motivate you? You've come to the right place. Welcome to Women of the Northwest, where we have conversations with ordinary women leading extraordinary lives. Motivating. Inspiring, compelling. I'm Jan Johnson, your host. I'm the kind of person who can't sit still, always have to be doing something. I'm just an ordinary woman who has ideas pop into her head and thinks, what's to stop me from doing that? And my preference is to be doing something that affects the life of someone or the community as a whole. It's what brings meaning to my life. And, hey, isn't it rewarding to see people smile? Ordinary women leading extraordinary lives. You know those women who everyone knows, the ones that balance a dozen things at once and you can depend on them to not drop the ball. Gals that are not afraid to have an idea and take the next step?
That's the kind of gals I'm talking about. These are the women I'll have conversations with each week, telling their stories and sharing their passions. Motivating. Inspiring, compelling.
[01:09] Jan: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Women of the Northwest. I have Delia Whitehead here with me. Aka Deedee. Hi Deedee.
[01:20] Dierdre: Hi, Jan. Thanks for having me.
[01:22] Jan: Nice to have you here.
[01:23] Jan: So you lived in Alaska for a little while.
[01:25] Jan: What did you do up there?
[01:26] Dierdre: I did well, I was married to a bush pilot. Frank Taylor was his name. And he was brilliant and wild and crazy and fearless, and we flew high performance aircraft. He served. We lived in Sitka Petersburg.
[01:41] Jan: Did you fly to where did you pilot?
[01:45] Dierdre: Well, I'm a little bit of a chicken. I was especially then I was in my 20s then. But we flew we had a Super Cub, which is I'm sure a lot of your listeners know what it is, but it's a single engine aircraft. It was a glorified kite. I thought basically it was one seat in front of the other, a fabric airplane. Oh. And we flew it from Arizona to Sitka. And Frank was a safety expert in his world, and he decided that I had to learn how to fly in case he croaked when we were flying. So he basically forced me to he would stick me in there. I was terrified to fly, and his solution to that was to stick me in the front seat of the airplane and make me fly it and pretend he was asleep in the back. But I never white deck on it. Yeah, *** was a stick. Not on the yolk, but it was white. And I never actually soloed, but I could put the plane down if something happened.
[02:46] Jan: Did you gain confidence?
[02:48] Dierdre: I did when you I did. I gained a lot of confidence. Yeah, I did. And my one claim to fame was I had 45 minutes of helicopter time, which I actually loved. Really?
[02:59] Jan: Yeah. Well, you'll have to listen to the Jane Pina episode because she's a Coast Guard helicopter pilot. So she's like, yeah, it was fun. What was the scariest part about doing that? About flying? Learning to fly.
[03:17] Dierdre: Landing?
[03:17] Jan: Yeah, landing.
[03:19] Dierdre: The ground came up too fast for me. And then years later, I was talking to a woman captain. Doesn't matter, but that she was a woman, but that is pertinent captain of an airline. And I told her I never soloed because I was terrified of landing because the ground came up too fast. And she said, oh, that's because you're looking at the runway. You should be looking at the horizon. So had we had that discussion then?
[03:45] Jan: Little tricks of the trade.
[03:46] Dierdre: The little tricks of the trade. But I actually love Aviation. And perhaps later when I did gain confidence, I might have learned to fly. But then it was kind of expensive by that point.
[04:00] Jan: Yeah, it is expensive. So what did you do? Why were you flying?
[04:04] Dierdre: Well, Frank was a bush pilot, and so he had purchased this he was also a crop duster.
[04:09] Jan: Okay.
[04:10] Dierdre: So he bought this Super Cub and we flew it to Alaska and we used it for he would serve hunting camps. And he got a job working in Sitka for an air taxi operator. He flew mail and he medical supplies to the islands. Just the bushes.
[04:28] Jan: Things aren't convenient there to just drive.
[04:31] Dierdre: To or get to.
[04:33] Jan: Yeah.
[04:33] Dierdre: Southeast Alaska, many of the places. The only way to get there is by boat or by plane. So when we flew out of Fairbanks, we served these crazy gold miners and hunters that were out in the middle of nowhere, just outlandish stuff they do up there. No offense to anyone.
[04:54] Jan: That must have been a really kind of exciting experience. And different things all the time. Learning or learning different cultures.
[05:03] Dierdre: Yeah, very different cultures. It was exciting. And one of the things that we did was spot for herring.
[05:10] Jan: Oh, really? Yeah.
[05:11] Dierdre: The herring fishery in those days this was back in the 80s. In those days, the herring fishery in Sitka was only about an hour long because they monitor the herring row so closely. There were, I think, 52 boats at the time, and they would compete. And the area was very small, so there were about 35 airplanes. 52 boats. And the airplane spotters were looking for fish. It was a rodeo in the sky.
[05:41] Jan: I can imagine that. Yeah. Air traffic control.
[05:48] Dierdre: Right. I think they co op. I could be wrong about that. Excuse me. Don't hold me to that. But I think they don't do that anymore like they did because it was a wonder more people didn't die.
[05:58] Jan: Yeah.
[05:58] Dierdre: Normally the pilot would fly and the spotter that was me would look for fish. But Frank knew what to look for and he had a better vision than I did. Whatever. He knew how to work. So my job was to watch for airplanes.
[06:14] Jan: Okay. Yeah.
[06:15] Dierdre: And when we were coming in, right? Yeah, exactly. When we first went out to practice, I said, okay, 02:00, 02:00. And he'd look, he'd say, no, that's too far away. So we'd go and another airplane would come close, 10:00 10:00. He'd say, no, no, that's too close. And I said, you know, to me it was. He said, no, that's too far away. And to me, I was like, I'm terrified. But I said, okay, when do you want me to let you know? And he said, I quote directly, I kid you not. He said, when you see the pilot's mustache, let me know.
[06:47] Jan: No, isn't it too late?
[06:56] Dierdre: Yeah, those were crazy times.
[06:59] Jan: And how come somebody else would be flying and they'd get that close?
[07:03] Dierdre: There was one errant airplane who was alone in the plane. It was a green I think it was a SATA. So if the pilot of the green satabia who flew in the sitcom Herring spottery in 1986, you scared the weedies out of me. He was the one I watched out for the most because he was kind of all over the board. Everybody else is just as concerned about keeping their life as we were. Yeah, it was more orderly in some ways than you'd think. But I did when we land, I did want to call my mom and say, we're alive. She didn't know because you couldn't just text her. Yeah, well, on that note, in those days, my mom lived out on a little farm that had no phone, and Frank and I lived on an island off of Sitka that had no phone. So we literally had to write those old fashioned things called letters, really make it.
[07:58] Jan: And then you had to do the mail drop to get it to the.
[08:01] Dierdre: Place, and then she had to get it, and then we had to arrange a date, and then I had to go in by skiff and she had to drive into town. And that's how it sounds like one of those stories, but it's absolutely true. I told my grandsons back in the day, back in the olden days, they just rolled their eyes at me. But letters, we used to write letters.
[08:22] Jan: Yeah, but I bet when you did the mail, delivering mail, people were so excited.
[08:27] Dierdre: So excited. And then those days, I was so excited to go to the post office box. I mean, that was the big event.
[08:35] Jan: Yeah. There's a life outside of here and whatever. So did you have to deal then? Because it gets dark half the year, right?
[08:44] Dierdre: Well, not so much.
[08:45] Jan: Not so much down there.
[08:46] Dierdre: Southeast Alaska, it was about, as I recall, I could be wrong, so don't hold me to this, but as I recall, it would get light about nine in the morning and dark about four. But I worked in for the newspaper and I worked in a dark room, so I would go to work before the sun came up and come home after the sun went down. There was a period of time.
[09:06] Jan: What did you do for the newspaper?
[09:08] Dierdre: I worked in the dark room.
[09:08] Jan: I ran the dark room photographs.
[09:12] Dierdre: Yeah. That was back in the olden days when we had this stuff called film.
[09:17] Jan: Yeah. That I had to have a dark room.
[09:19] Dierdre: Had to have a dark room. And I had to take it out in the dark and develop the film. And that was before we could see the film. And so I would tell the reporters, I can do a lot for you, but I cannot do anything when you chop their heads off. I can't repair that photo that we really need. Yeah, there's not the top of his head, so there's nothing I can do. I can do a lot.
[09:46] Jan: That's one of my earliest memories, is dad having film out in the garage and it's and the strips of the hanging by a clothes pin across the wire.
[10:01] Dierdre: Yeah. And it was your father who inspired me. And that was the reason I knew a single thing about and the magic.
[10:07] Jan: Of putting it in. And all of a sudden, the image appears in the what do you call.
[10:13] Dierdre: The liquid something rather developer. Developer, yeah. No, I never got even when the photograph was what I used to call a grin and grip photo, you know, where they would shake hands, the council would shake hands, grin and grip boring photos.
[10:28] Jan: Even.
[10:29] Dierdre: Those were magic to me when they came on. I never got over putting the paper in the developer. And then the image would come, like, magically. It is, like, magical.
[10:42] Jan: But they were all black and white for the newspaper. Newspaper.
[10:46] Dierdre: It's all black and white.
[10:47] Jan: Yeah.
[10:48] Dierdre: I don't think we had any color photos in those days. I don't know. For the newspaper. I'm sorry. If we did, I could be wrong, but I don't remember. I certainly didn't develop color. That was in the early 1980. 1982?
[11:03] Jan: Yeah. Okay. How did you learn to do that?
[11:09] Dierdre: Well, your dad taught me how to develop he had a dark room off of the side. And then when I went to college, I took a photography class, and that's where I really learned persnickety. But then the printer of the newspaper, Dennis Melcher was his name, he taught me really how to they trained me a little bit. I think I had, like, three days of training you're good. I did already know how I love that job.
[11:38] Jan: Yeah, you like doing that? Did you take photos, too, or just.
[11:41] Dierdre: Use not so much. A little bit. I did carry my camera with me. I mean, they would indulge me every now and then, and I'd get the good ego photo. I took my camera with me everywhere in those days, but it wasn't really they were more fill in photos. Yeah, that's cool.
[11:57] Jan: Then you had a business too. What was your business?
[12:00] Dierdre: Well, I had several. I started out being a massage therapist back in the day. In the olden days, I was actually the third massage therapist in the town I lived in.
[12:09] Jan: Really?
[12:09] Dierdre: In Arizona?
[12:10] Jan: Yeah.
[12:10] Dierdre: And then I did what's called Bowen work, which is very more like brain work. It's a soft tissue relaxation technique that goes right up against the spine with the gogli attendant organs and the proprioceptors. Really, I wouldn't have known what bone work could have done, but I injured my neck and got so much relief from it, so I did that, and then that kind of set me up to understand more about the brain. It's really brain work. And then I went into brain integration. Brain integration.
[12:42] Jan: And how did that work?
[12:43] Dierdre: What describe that brain integration? Brain integration is great stuff. Brain integration technique developed by a guy called Charles Kreb. And then Charles Krebs, he wrote a book called Revolutionary Way of Thinking, if anyone's interested. And then his partner, Susan McCrossen, was my teacher. And it's kind of a complicated thing. And at the risk of my husband, Rich used to say, if you don't get her started on the brand because this is interesting. What we did was if we addressed the root causes of I don't really like these terms, but add ADHD learning difficulties. And if the root of that problem was in what we did, which was blood flow to the brain, we could restore that and basically would not have the problem when they left. And it's outlandish. But what we do is it's with acupressure points. So we sort of tell the next question. Exactly how does that happen? Through the use of meridians. It's a specialized system. It looks crazy, to be honest with you. It kind of looks wacky, but, boy, does it work. Kind of tell the body, hey, check this out. And then we do what's called the I'm showing her now, but it's called the frontal occipital hold, where we put one hand here on the forehead and then one hand back on the occipital and wait for the we won't feel a pulse when it first happens. And then we just wait, basically. And eventually the pulse will come on board, and the body tells us it's a really set protocol. The body will tell us what to do. Our bodies are a miracle. So basically what I considered myself an usher, really, to just hold the door open. I just happen to know which doors to knock on and which ones to open by being a good student.
[14:41] Jan: So when you feel the pulse, then what?
[14:44] Dierdre: Well, then that particular area is complete. So one of the ways I used to explain it is if you think of your brain like a hotel corridor, okay? And the hallway is the corpus callosum. That's the line that goes down between the two halves of the brain, okay? And let's say behind every door in the hotel room. Door one, door one, door two. Yeah there's something that does a particular function. Okay, so you hear us talk about right brain, left brain. Well technically there's not one side of the brain that does one thing. They work together. So this is my hopefully quick little speech. But the ideal functioning brain has the hallway is open, all the doorways to the rooms are open and they talk to each other.
[15:39] Jan: Okay.
[15:40] Dierdre: What happens to many of us for any number of different reasons, like say birth, which can be traumatic. Traumatic. Some of the doorways are closed or not open all the way and some of them are downright locked and there'll be suitcases and trunks and whatnot in the hallway. So if you had an ideal functioning brain with no obstacles, everything talks to each other pretty well. But in the case of a door closed, let's say a piece of information comes into the brain. Let's talk about a math problem. And so ideally it would happen very quick. The information would transfer from one side to the other. But in this case let's say our math function is behind door number three and that door is closed. Well what happens is the information comes into door number three but it can't get out. So now it has to crawl up through the heating and go through and then it finds a door that's open a little bit and it goes out. And then it has to crawl through all of the trunks and the suitcases and everything and then it has to go to the other side of the brain, other side of the hallway and.
[16:50] Jan: Get this hallway moved on.
[16:52] Dierdre: Exactly. And then it comes back and goes through and then it finally comes out. So it's exhausting to even think about. And the brain acts a little bit like a circuit breaker and the circuit breaker in your house will shut off. Why? Because it doesn't want your house to burn down. The brain is a little bit like that so it can be exhausting. So maybe not explaining this great but in essence what brain integration does is it opens all the doors and takes the suitcases out of the hallway and we get it functioning as well as it can. I used to consider myself a mechanic. Like I'm going to come in, it's not magic, I'm just going to clean your spark plugs, get you a new distributor cap and off you go. Because your twelve cylinder engine, it's just not maybe functioning on all cylinders. So your engine might sound like but I think the car analogy was often a great way that's how to explain it to the kids when I was doing it.
[17:56] Jan: So did you mostly work with kids?
[17:58] Dierdre: No, I worked with all ages. Some people worked with all kids. I had some great colleagues and one of us worked with the little kids. The other one worked with adults, and I kind of worked with everybody. I sort of took the hard cases, brain injuries, and kind of pushed the limits.
[18:15] Jan: Tell me about some of the successes you saw.
[18:18] Dierdre: One of my favorite stories was Ruby. She would let us use her name. She was in the fifth grade, and she was repeating the fifth grade for the second time. She had been adopted, and we didn't really want to know about the first five years of Ruby's life, but she was adopted by loving parents and went to read. She would have to put I'm putting my two index fingers together, and she would have to go under the words with her two index fingers, and she couldn't even move her head. I mean, couldn't even move her eyes. She'd have to move her whole head.
[18:56] Jan: Her whole head. To see. Yeah, to see.
[18:58] Dierdre: And she couldn't really remember. And then I didn't actually do Ruby myself, but one of my colleagues did. And I love this story because, well, firstly, Ruby had been in trouble for lying and stealing, and she could not do math at all. She was failing math. So Ruby was reading with two fingers. She had her index fingers together, and she couldn't follow the words with her eyes. She had to move her whole head. And one of Ruby's challenges was she was failing math terribly. She couldn't really control her emotions very well. It's a little bit of a hair trigger temper going on. And she was in trouble for lying and stealing. So couldn't read very well at all.
[19:51] Jan: Yeah. Well, how could you? How laborious would that be?
[19:53] Dierdre: To right after she completed brain integration, she started to read, went to her default position, put her hands together, put her little fingers together, and started to do it. And very quickly, she, by herself, took her hands away, started to read, started to read with expression. And she looked up to Lynn, the woman who had done her brain integration, and said, you know, this might sound weird, but I never knew that the letters didn't jump around on the page. So it has a lot the brain integration has a lot to do with eye muscles and blood draining from the frontal cortex. So back to the stealing and the lying and the math. It's not like you can get brain integration and you instantly know math. I would always have to make that. After practicing for a while, I would like, okay, what's going to happen is we have to go back and learn math, but this time it's going to stick. So about six months went by, and there was an incident in the fifth grade, ruby's fifth grade class, somebody stole something. And they went right to Ruby, thinking that it was her.
[21:03] Jan: That it was her.
[21:03] Dierdre: And Ruby went home and said to her mom, I didn't do it. And her mom said, you know, Ruby, you haven't been lying lately. So I actually believe you.
[21:11] Jan: Yeah.
[21:12] Dierdre: And she said, you understand why they thought it was you, don't you? Smart mother. She was great. And Ruby was like, oh. So my point of that part of the story is when there's not blood in the frontal cortex is technically what's happening, where the place of reasoning is. But I used the analogy of when those doors are closed, she just saw the thing and she wanted the thing. She didn't put it together with the consequence of anything. And so after about six months, after a brain integration, she said to her mom, oh, yeah, I used to do that. She didn't remember it. Anyway, they found the thing with another kid, and Ruby was absolved with the crime. But I just love that story about Ruby. And along those same lines, another one of my favorite ones was there was a 16 year old girl who, again, was failing math terribly. We did her brain integration and said, you're going to have to get a tutor over the summer because you got to catch up. You have to catch up. And we got a call from her. We got a call from the tutor who said, she keeps saying, oh, that's what they meant. Oh, that's what they meant.
[22:30] Jan: So it's not like the information was not in her brain. It just had to be awakened kind of in a way.
[22:37] Dierdre: Well, it didn't stick, actually. So the other thing I used to tell the kids is the kids that I saw were smart, but it doesn't mean that I would say, just because you can't spell doesn't mean you're not smart. Now you're sitting next to this kid, next to you, who can just rattle off his time stables or rattle off his spelling. That doesn't mean he's smarter than you. But the set up in school is what that kid is doing who can spell like the wind. All the spelling bees is just basically reading it off the blackboard in his head.
[23:19] Jan: Right.
[23:21] Dierdre: What's going on with you is you don't have that door to your blackboard. It doesn't work, so you're trying to memorize it. And that's unnatural.
[23:30] Jan: Yeah.
[23:34] Dierdre: I used to say, nobody leaves my office without spelling pneumonia. Forward and back. And then it was sometimes hard one. I mean, everybody wanted to stab me, but I had another eleven year old girl who said it best. She really couldn't spell. But then we, we did the brain integration. I taught her the word. And there's a certain technique of remembering how to spell, which involves putting your.
[23:56] Jan: Eyes up, which is interesting when you're really thinking about something, you're looking at.
[24:01] Dierdre: The looking up, and if you know, you do it naturally, well, that's the way to remember things. That's the way to draw it back. But this eleven year old girl said, oh, I see it, but it's invisible. So this kind of how the spelling words come. It's kind of mystifying I mean, I'm maybe not doing the work justice by the way I talk about it, but this is the way I found to talk to the kids about it.
[24:24] Jan: That's interesting. I was a reading specialist for ten years, and that I would have loved. Right. You know, techniques and things to do to help some kids. That absolutely just you're hitting your head on the wall trying to think, what else way can I teach him to do this or to see you to understand? Yeah.
[24:43] Dierdre: So from my perspective, it was kind of mechanical, really.
[24:46] Jan: And how long would, like, an average session start to finish with a kid be, too?
[24:53] Dierdre: Basically, we would say twelve to 15 hours. So people would come to see me for two days straight, and sometimes three, sometimes a little bit more. Really? Yeah, 12 hours, and then it was complete. Sometimes we'd come back for a little tune up, as it were.
[25:08] Jan: Wow. Yeah. That's like, miraculous. That had been so rewarding.
[25:13] Dierdre: I loved it so much. It was like a miracle. A week. Yeah. Sometimes it was a little more difficult to get there. Like I say, at some point everybody wanted to stab me because I would challenge them, but it was so rewarding.
[25:27] Jan: How did you find out about this?
[25:30] Dierdre: Well, I was doing Bowen work, and I had this client who used to come see me for massage years before, and I hadn't seen her since. I stopped doing massage, and I hadn't seen her in some time. And I ran into her in a parking lot one day, and she was so different. And we were talking, and I was staring at her like, what?
[25:55] Jan: And she said to me, Would you.
[25:57] Dierdre: Like to have lunch? And I said, yeah, I would. And so we made a lunch date, and I was having lunch with her, and I still recall I put my fork down halfway through the meal, and I said, this is going to sound rude, but I need to know what happened. I mean, she had gotten a divorce and then she got remarried. There were all these things that had happened in her life, but I was staring at her during the lunch thinking, this is not something really different. This is more than a divorce and a remarriage, like something's different. So I said to her, I hope you don't mind me asking, but you seem very different. What happened? She said, oh, brain integration. Let me tell you, after that, I was hooked. I read everything I could read on brains. I did not want to change profession because I was kind of at the top of my game with no one. But I couldn't stop. I was so interested in it and, you know, the kids, you know, the people. I actually had what I called my own little weird brain thing. Right. So I mixed up my right and left all the time. That's a very very common thing. And I had fooled myself, Jan, into thinking that I loved to read so much then that I would just read this paragraph over and over again, right?
[27:10] Jan: Yeah.
[27:11] Dierdre: But I just loved it was so beautiful. I could fool myself with that until it came to anatomy and physiology. Nobody wants to read those paragraphs again and again, but I had to read them like 100 times for it to sink in. And so when I went in for my own brain integration, one of the first things we do is check for reading comprehension, and mine was we'd give people a paragraph to read and take the sheet away and say, what did you remember? Well, I was dough in the headlights just like everybody else, and I was shocked, and I would have been so depressed if there hadn't been a solution right there at hand. So after my brain integrations, I could read the paragraph once and tell her at least 80% of it.
[27:54] Jan: My youngest daughter has Tourette's. And so when she would and this started with some ticks and things we noticed around 3rd, 4th grade and whatever, and that's where we had her diagnosed with it. But by the time she was in high school trying to read, she'd have these random phrases of things that would circle around in her brain just like a fly is in front of you while you're trying to read. So we would have to sit down with her and read her history book with her and read her science stuff and whatever together, but just because if she was trying to do it, she just absolutely couldn't do it. And she was lots of tears. Lots and lots of tears. But I wonder if something like that.
[28:37] Dierdre: Would have helped her, you know, I don't know. I don't know. Probably on, you know, if you called me up and said, well, I would say bring her in and let's see, we can test because we can do.
[28:47] Jan: A test right there.
[28:48] Dierdre: If the work I'm going to do is going to work for you, that's in person. But yeah, what you're describing is very common. The auditory learners, you can hear something, but you can't necessarily read it. And that has to do with the muscles and the eyes and kinds of things.
[29:03] Jan: Wow. So interesting. I do want to put some information in the show notes, too, so people.
[29:10] Dierdre: Could look it up if they yeah, we should. I'm not practicing.
[29:13] Jan: I've retired.
[29:14] Dierdre: But I can you know but at.
[29:15] Jan: Least some research what's? Some research that they could look at, find out.
[29:20] Dierdre: Like I say, one great book to read is A Revolutionary Way of Thinking by Charles Krebs.
[29:27] Jan: Yeah. Put some links in there. Okay. Thank you.
[29:30] Dierdre: You're welcome.
[29:31] Jan: This is just, like, fabulous.
[29:33] Dierdre: Well, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
[29:35] Jan: Yeah.
[29:39] Jan: If you enjoyed this or any other of my podcast episodes, it would be amazing if you would. Take a few minutes to leave a review so others can find it. Transcripts are available on my website@janjohnson.com. Please join me again next week.