Harrison Gray (Clemenza) & The Meat Mafia
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, eating, nutrition, willpower, food, lifestyle, regenerative agriculture, living, health, cooking, surrounding, phil, mafia, story, healthy, harrison, week, writing, keto diet, bitcoin
SPEAKERS
Jack Heald, Harrison Gray, Dr. Philip Ovadia
Jack Heald
Okay, we're live. It's the staff my operating table podcast, Dr. Phil Ovadia is right over here in Chicago.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Right, currently outside of Chicago. Yes. All right on the road again.
Jack Heald
I'm the comic relief Jack Heald, and we're here today with Harrison Gray, about whom I know nearly nothing. Phil, tell us why you invited this guy. And then let's find out who the heck he is and why he's here. I'm just going to sit back and listen.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Sure thing. Looking forward to another great discussion. You know, I think continuing the theme that we've been exploring over the past few episodes, Harrison is just another real interesting guy that came across on Twitter and on the internet. And he's got a great story to tell. And I think a great perspective on you know, all of the things that we talk about on this show. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Harrison and let him sort of introduce himself and tell us a little bit about his background and how he came to be so interested in the importance of the foods that we are eating.
Harrison Gray
Absolutely. And thank you both for having me on. I appreciate guys give me the platform to speak on these important topics. Because you know, quite frankly, a year ago, I was sitting at a nine to five job working Investment Management private equity job and decided to make a change into the My true passions, which is nutrition and health, and didn't really know how to make that change without having to go back to school. So being on this podcast is sort of a great indictment of the power of Twitter and just who you can connect with and felt we've sort of gotten in touch, they're slammed, but it's just been great to be able to reach out to all the different, really credentialed medical doctors and be able to learn from you all and be able to support your guys mission. So excited to be here.
I'll start telling my story. Back from the days when I was, so I was a college baseball player. And Nutrition has always been an important part of my story, I was always trying to find the right things to tweak to be better at what I was doing. And then, you know, fast forward through college, I was sitting at a desk all day nine to five working long hours, you know, munching on the Doritos and Oreos in between lunch in realizing that I was straying further away from my past, which was really just an overly active and healthy lifestyle. And that was, you know, two parts nutrition and also, you know, activity levels changing. So I noticed, you know, just kind of, in my day to day, things were changing in my health that, you know, were obvious to me, because I had spent enough time focusing on my nutrition previously to understand that feeling in relationship with my body.
So I knew pretty quickly that things were starting to change for the worse, you know, my playing weight was around to 15 to 20. And I'd gotten up to like 235 to 40, within the first five years of my working career. So I was, you know, kind of always fluctuating against you know, that that resistance of trying to be in shape and healthy, but also trying to manage the lifestyle, which I think a lot of people can relate with. And so I had done the Paleo diet in college when I was playing baseball, and really felt the benefits of it. But it wasn't until when COVID hit that I struck on the keto diet, which for me, so that was about two years ago, this time. And for me that that moment in time was valuable for me, I was able to really get focused on my health, I went from 235 to down to 210 to 15 best shape I've ever been in. And it was really just this focus period of two to three months of really diving into the keto diet where, you know, I had given up drinking during that period, which was part of my social life and part of my lifestyle, and then really just cooked 100% of my meals.
So I was in control of everything that I was eating. And the transformation I saw was all nutrition related. I wasn't doing anything exceptional in terms of activity, I was walking on an excessive amount, but I was walking, you know, probably two hours a day as my exercise and that was basically it. And then I was just focusing on the nutrition and I just I saw the way that I was frustrated with and the stress that I was feeling with my day-to-day job. Just a road away. And it was that change that made me realize that one, as a person whose health conscious and has been health conscious my whole life and struggled with it for five years, I can't imagine what other people who don't aren't equipped with the knowledge are dealing with. And so, you know, I think I was really introduced to these ideas from people like Shaun Baker, and I think Paul Saladino, as well as another one who I just came across them, their social media accounts, Twitter, and Instagram. And it really stuck with me because I knew what they were speaking to, I'd done something similar before. And it just sparked something for me to go try it.
And as soon as I saw success, I was back down the rabbit hole of really wanting to make nutrition and in the healthy, like healthy living a bigger part of my life. fast forward a year from when COVID started, I started to realize that, you know, the job I was working in wasn't giving me that sort of alignment in my life that I wanted, and so quickly realized that I wanted to move in, in a direction where I could start working in the nutrition and health space. So I moved down to Austin, Texas, with my buddy, Salazzo. Or, Brett, outside of our Twitter, Twitter names. And we ran an Ironman together in October down in Waco, Texas. And we were living together. And so we had spent a month of our life living together training for the last month for the Ironman really getting it dialed in and trying to really put all of our energy and focus into that. His story's amazing.
So he cured all sort of colitis through a carnivore diet, which I think you guys are gonna have him on maybe later in the week. So I'll save his story for then. But it was very likeminded thinking around nutrition and thinking about ways that we could share his story, which I think is incredibly valuable for a lot of people who are dealing with autoimmune issues in my story, which is pretty relatable for a lot of people who are maybe not in that, okay, necessity base need to make a change with my diet, but I really feel like I should. And so between our two stories, my original passion, getting down in Austin was to start getting into regenerative agriculture and start building out a business around regenerative agriculture because I saw the food system as the biggest issue in the health system. And so I wanted to throw myself into I
Jack Heald
want to stop, I just want to book that. Absolutely. Food System is the biggest issue in the health system. I just want to highlight that, Phil, that's the quote, that's at least one of the quotes you want. Sorry, I didn't mean to, but no, absolutely, or something. Awesome. I want to I want to make a note. That was awesome. Okay, carry on.
Harrison Gray
Sweet. So, you know, and I was, I was working my job. And on the side doing a lot of research on this regenerative agriculture movement, which I see, I see the spark starting to be flared. And I think that a lot of people are waking up to it. But it's this idea that our nutrition starts in a place that's much different than what most people think. And I think there's been this detachment from food in a lot of ways in our food system really does start in the soil, and then how these animals and plants are raised. So one of the things that I started writing about was I started writing for slam. And I was doing that as a way to educate myself on regenerative agriculture. And as a parallel to that, I'm into the Bitcoin community and really the idea of Sovereign Money. So the parallels there for me, you
Jack Heald
I’ve got all kinds of questions now. Keep going.
Harrison Gray
I will. So the parallels there for me are our you don't really strike a few different similar chords, but
Jack Heald
You know, one of the one of the dangers of podcasting is we sometimes forget that that we don't dialogue the way we would if it was just the three of us sitting around the campfire shooting the shit and drinking some good whiskey. By the way, Phil, I just want to point out that I'm still working on that bourbon you brought me and I'm loving it. So I just I want to hear about this whole this connection that you guys see with Bitcoin, regenerative farming, the whole food movement. Maybe it's deeper than I then I recommend recognize or maybe it's shallower. I just I, somehow I failed to get that out of slim. I may have just not asked the question well but talk to me about tell me about the connections, and why it all matters. So, by the way, bitcoins up huge today,
Harrison Gray
yeah, it's been moving recently, I've been curious to see how it's going to react to all the things that are happening with commodity prices and potential, you know, geopolitical strains with war. So some my thing with Bitcoin has been, I think it's a way to hold people who hold political office accountable, because it's money that's independent from any sort of institutionalized sort of sovereign system. And so I think food in a similar way it should hold, it should have a relationship to this idea of being able to be grown for yourself, and you should have dependent, or you can choose to be completely dependent on yourself, or, in other words, independent, if you want to.
So I think that the parallels are kind of along this independence movement, where you don't want to be reliant on a system for your food, you don't want to be reliant on a government to tell you like, you know, what's going to be happening with the, the printing of your money, supply of your money. And so I think a lot of people during COVID, realize that the government was spending and printing money at a rate that for better or worse, I'm sure that they avoided a lot of moral hazards by printing that money, but at the same time, I think it's a reflection of how we view currency, which is that it's endless, and that it's, it's something that can just be printed into existence, just out of thin air. And I think that's a principle that goes against a lot of these natural laws, I think there are limits to how much you can print and without killing the currency.
And so I think Bitcoin is specifically interesting, because it's created scarcity in a digital sense. So, you know, the more people adopt into Bitcoin, the more you know, the network effect starts to take hold. And that really is because the supplies captain, the demand, there should continue to grow if people continue to believe in the fact that Sovereign Money is important, and people should be able to hold something like gold, and something that's outside of the main systems as a way to store their wealth. Without it being, quite frankly, messed with via inflation or, or other roads.
Harrison Gray
Yeah. I'm, I'm somewhat sensitive to the fact that, you know, I don't think that anarchy has, is what bitcoins going for, and I don't think that's why the whole, you know, grow your own food or know your food system is going for, but I think it's just an accountability test. And so if you don't hold the people who set the rules accountable, what are they going to do, they're going to abuse, the power that they're given. And I think that we're, we're kind of seeing that today. You know, my past experience is obviously interesting, working in finance, and now moving into nutrition. So that's kind of the bridge for me between like Bitcoin in the food system is.
Yeah, it wasn't specifically working in in cryptocurrency or anything beforehand. But I was obviously always interested in it. And it's this new technology that I think offers a lot. And I think that having worked with slamming in writing under him and seeing the parallels between how Bitcoiners think and how people who want to really take control of the potentially fragile food system, I mean, when you start thinking about some of the concentration risk in the food system, and some of the bigger issues where conventional agriculture is massively subsidized by the government, which I think has created a system where food is cheap, but not rich in nutrients.
So you're, you're seeing the, the output of that, you know, if it's a system, the output of the system is producing food that's not giving people what they need in order to thrive and be, you know, living vite Vitalis. Is that a word?
Dr. Philip Ovadia
It is now live - white collar, that one. So it's interesting, you know, one of the kind of themes I'm hearing as you're talking Is this recognizing, you know, that you had a problem with your health, recognizing some of these problems around you, you know, around the food system that, you know, most people don't even realize, are problems. as you were telling your story, you know, I was kind of thinking that, you know, a lot of people in your situation, wouldn't have even viewed themselves as unhealthy wouldn't have even, you know, connected, that they had a problem with their health, and they had to start changing something, you know, in terms of what they were eating, or what they were doing.
And I'm just interested to hear, you know, what, what was it that really kind of pushed you to pursue that, you know, as opposed to just accepting, like, so many of us around, do that, you know, I'm just getting a little older, and I'm getting a little bit more overweight. And, I'm just, you know, more tired and more stressed because of the work I'm doing. And most people just leave it at that and accept it as inevitable until it becomes a big problem. and then they end up on my operating table, so to speak. But yeah, you recognize that earlier and chose to do something about it.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, I think I actually think about this a lot, because it was kind of a few, a few factors and COVID, the disruption of COVID definitely being one of them. I think the relative change in my health is probably similar to people who spiral, you know, go further down the unhealthy pathway, I think I was probably in high school, I would have considered myself one of the high school in college, like one of the most healthy people I was surrounding, you know, surrounded, surrounding myself with. So I think the relative change for me was surprising. So I just kind of similar to people who, you know, let themselves go. I think I had just been in tune with my nutrition before that, to a degree that if I really felt it a lot, even though it hadn't gotten out of control to a point where I would have ended up on your operating table.
Jack Heald
Well, not immediately,
Harrison Gray
Exactly. Yeah, I mean, look...
Jack Heald
I was just thinking about the fact that you're here, you're five years out of college, you've already put on 30 pounds. Yeah, I mean, that's, that is 15% additional weight, that's 3% a year. You know, and, and the heavier you get, the easier it becomes to add more fat, you're 10 years down the road without a change. You're 60 pounds overweight, or maybe more, exactly nine years down the road. You're grossly obese. Totally. That's, that's the trajectory. And so the fact that you recognize that, even though I'm sure visually, you probably weren't, nobody went, Oh, my God, Harrison's a fatty. That's wrong, except your best friends who are gonna bust you regardless of what you look like. So I, you know, I commend you. But I don't want to minimize the, the, the magnitude of the change that you had to make, or the magnitude of the destination that you were heading for, without that change. You were destined to end up on the operating table. It's that simple.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, it's interesting, too, because, you know, I'm a bigger guy to begin with, you know, six, four have always been, you know, able to carry some muscle mass to so being able to hide the weight is probably part of the issue as well, right. Like, people wouldn't have noticed if I put on that much. I couldn't imagine people really could have noticed that they would have said, Yeah, you know, he didn't look what he looked like what he used to, but, but, you know, I was like two, you know, 240 feeling the worst that I've ever felt. And that that wasn't sitting well with me. And the main reason was, like, my clothes that I used to wear just were uncomfortable, like, that to me is like I need to I'm the type of person that will just kind of drop it all and make the change quickly. And as soon as COVID hit that, I think, personally, my environment plays a massive role in how quickly I make changes and I'm sure that's similar for a lot of people
Jack Heald
coffee, talk about that would expand on that idea. We had your environment make a difference?
Harrison Gray
Well, I think you know, environment comes in a few forms, but you know, who you're who you're surrounding yourself with plays into that but also your physical environment. So, you know, I was working the nine to five jobs staying indoors, most is not getting nearly as much sun exposure as I needed to not being as active as I needed to and living in a small apartment. So the confines of my environment, were creating this, you know, sort of caged feeling, right. And I think that that plays into your health, when you're not getting outside enough, when you're not being, you know, moderately active during the day, it takes a toll on you, I think more, it takes more of a toll on you than actually going out and getting an hour-long workout. And so I think that I was just physically putting myself in these, these spaces and kind of surrounding myself with people who didn't really have the same lifestyle goals as I did. And that sort of just started to become a part of what I was doing. And so I think you're
Jack Heald
talking about environment really had a negative, a negative environment had a negative effect on you.
Harrison Gray
I think so. Yeah. And then I think that, on the, on the other side of that, the change was kind of sparked by the relative isolation, in COVID, which I think affected certain people certain ways. I was able to totally lock in on the things I wanted to change, I cooked 100% of my meals, I was walking two hours a day, and focusing on the things that I wanted to change. And quickly that spark to make the change was lit. And I think it was really, you know, that feeling that going back to Phil's original question that I was just starting to feel uncomfortable with how my body was fitting into the clothes I was wearing. And I wasn't able to, you know, be as active as I used to be without sort of feeling a little bit slow and lethargic. And I'm the type of person who wants to live an active, active and healthy life until I'm well into my 70s. I grew up skiing a bunch and I want to be able to My motto is like, I want to die skiing, basically.
Jack Heald
There are easy ways to do that I can help you.
Harrison Gray
I think I think into my 80s.
Jack Heald
So do a compare contrast. I used to eat these things. Yeah. And then I ate then I changed to eating those things. I want I'm actually after to two different ideas. One is, how do you use to eat? How do you eat now? And how long did it take to drop that? I'm guessing 25 or 30 pounds? Start with how long did it take to drop it once you made the change?
Harrison Gray
Yeah, for sure. So I would say you want me to start with how long it took me to drive. How
Jack Heald
long did it take to drop it once you made the change?
Harrison Gray
It took six weeks for me to drop it. And onward. I was incredibly just disciplined with a keto diet. You know, from March, it was like six to eight weeks it was March to April. Wow, that's really fast. Okay, so beginning of March, the end of April.
Jack Heald
So explain the food changes that you made that allowed that pretty significant weight loss to occur in such a short period of time.
Harrison Gray
In the in the office, Harrison going into the office eating a lunch, that was usually a sub or a sandwich. Bag of chips. And then honestly grazing his was the issue for me. So I would you know, the work Life Office would provide all these snacks throughout the day. And it was usually just garbage. Right? So they had the chips out the cookies out. Never I've never been a soda person. But no, the chips and cookies definitely got to me. So I would you know, walk, walk into the kitchen, grab a quick bag of chips, go back to my desk set. And over the course of, you know, a few years that adds up. that was sort of that was sort of the thing was I was not cooking my own meals. I wasn't bringing my own food into the office. I was always eating out. And there are only so many options. And you know, when you're stressed out, you're not. And when you're stressed out and you don't have a plan. You're not prepared to make the right decision. And so that was me.
Jack Heald
That's when you're stressed out and you don't have a plan. You're not prepared to, how do you say that?
Harrison Gray
Make the right decision.
Jack Heald
Make the right decision? Yeah, straight down. You don't have a plan. You're not prepared to make the right decision. That's good.
Harrison Gray
The plan lets you think about the decision you're going to make before you make it. So you feel a little bit more obligated to stick with it. And for me, I was in the moment trying to, you know, make decisions on my health that, yeah, you're sitting there looking at a menu, you don't see all the different nutritional facts, and you're not thinking about it, and you just order, you know, whatever your taste buds are feeling that day. And I think that, that is probably a fault of many. And so for me, that was how I was eating beforehand. And then after, so I was, you know, in my apartment during COVID, during lockdown, really focused on cooking my own meals I was doing a lot of, you know, I had a, my motto was keep it simple. So I had a Dutch oven and a cast iron, and I learned how to cook a chuck roast and stew in the Dutch oven. In like some braised short rib. And
Jack Heald
I would like to point out the chuck roast is the cheapest beef by and large, the cheapest beef you can buy.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, so and that's and I was trying to, you know, keep it up, keep it under budget, right, and do it in a way that I could sustain. So cooking a meal like a chuck for us, for a guy like me, that's gonna last me like three or four meals. So the time investment is worth it because I have to do is throw it and throw it in the Dutch oven, throw it in the oven and sit back for six hours, go back, go to work, and come back and take it out and you're good. And so I found a lot of success with the Dutch oven cooking in that. And then I was doing some meals like taco salads. Mark Sisson has this big ass salad recipe. I sort of made my own version of that.
So I was going all in on the cooking stuff. I was trying to learn like two or three new recipes a week. And that, to me was my saving grace because it made it fun. And once it was fun, it was part of the lifestyle. And I was rolling like a week. So the way I set it up was like, I gave myself a week of doing the keto diet hard. And then I gave myself a meal to kind of pull back and give myself a little bit of a treat. But it wasn't like a cheat day where I went and bought like a full pizza and ate it was like I went and got an ice bowl. And then and then I tried to do two weeks straight. So just double my consistency and output from the previous week. And it at that point, the wheels were rolling like I was it was kind of last. So that's really how I think I how I found my success with it was making it fun through cooking and giving myself a little bit of a runway to like enjoy it and make it fun. I think that made all the difference.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
And when you, you know kind of first decided to make a change was with keto, the first thing you came across the first thing you tried, or had you tried other things before that.
Harrison Gray
I think for a lot for a long period of time, I hadn't really been trying anything specifically. So like I said, I done paleo in college. But, you know, keto was the first thing I tried when I when, you know, March stroke and COVID hit. And to my luck, it was a huge success. So I think, you know, I was very happy with what I was seeing in the first week that I did it. And then after three weeks, I was feeling all the benefits of being in ketosis. And at that point, to me, it was it was more of a matter of figuring out how to make it a long-term sustainable lifestyle, I saw the benefits saw what it can really do for me, and then just making it so I can balance it out and create this long-term lifestyle. So I think that I just came across it because I've been following the space like I'd Marxist. And as someone who I've always kind of followed and Paul Saladino, so kind of somewhere in between those two is really what inspired me to get going. And there was, you know, off to the races once I had a little bit of success with that.
Jack Heald
Tell us a little bit about how and I realized there may be no answer to this question. How did your changed lifestyle affect the people you hung with? I'm sure it affected who you hung with but how did it affect them?
Harrison Gray
Yeah, it's a good question. And it's one that actually sits with me. So I think like right now, I'm very much aware that the people who are closest to me are gonna have a massive impact on the lifestyle that I'm having. Right? So Brett – Salazzo - who's my best friend and another one of my buddies down here in Austin, they eat and do pretty much the same life. They have the same lifestyle as I do. So it makes things way easier. Initially, that wasn't the case. So, initially, you know, the people I was surrounding myself with were, you know, going out to the bars two nights a week and having the late-night foods two nights a week not getting enough sleep. And I was totally partaking in a decent amount of that. And I think that when I made the change, I was kind of isolating myself. And I had one buddy in Boston, who was trying to go through a similar journey for himself. And so he and I were really leaning into each other. And I think that at that moment, that's really all either of us needed. But I do think that, you know, the people who you surround yourself with are playing a bigger role than you realize. And that do you think,
Jack Heald
did isolating yourself help? Did that help you to make that change? Do you think?
Harrison Gray
I think that I think, absolutely. And it in a short period of time, it's probably, that's quite healthy. But it's, it's unsustainable, right? Like you want to be, yeah, I'll be socializing and being out with people. But I've built up the willpower at this point to say no to X, Y, and Z meal, or like, you know, if I go out to dinner, it's not even a question at this point, because the willpower has been built up, or I just feel comfortable at this point, where I know, if I have one small tree, it's not going to throw me off the rails. So, you know, I feel confident the way that my lifestyle is, is being lived and portrayed, and like, I know that I can get back on like, it's a part of my DNA at this point, it's not just some diet that I'm doing. So I think that's where you need to get to when you start re integrating yourself, like if you do sort of really take the time to and if you have the luxury of taking the time to go really work on getting your nutrition and diet in order and surrounding yourself with the right people. I think that, you know, when you do start going back and socializing with people who really haven't bought into what you're doing, I think that it becomes easier just to say no, then also, the proof is kind of in the pudding, like, I feel better than I bet 99% of the people I used to hang out with that. So in that sense, just the feeling of knowing that like, I feel great, like I don't want to mess that up, is strong enough to keep me with my convictions of you know, eating right and in the lifestyle that I'm living.
Jack Heald
So, I want to just kind of get a summary here, because there's going to be people listening to this. And it won't resonate with some of them, but some of them, they'll hear what you have to say on the go. Yeah, yeah, I think I can do this. So the elements of change that I hear for you were the environmental stuff. You were, were you working from home at that point, you're forced out from home just so you have you, you separated yourself from people who didn't support the change that you made, and then you somehow learned how to enjoy the process of making your own food, which I think that's, I think that's an underappreciated skill. I was I was cooking last night, and I was thinking, I was just kind of noticing how much I've changed, that I enjoy being in the kitchen. I didn't used to be that way. So that's the second thing, isolation from the non-supporters gaining a new enjoyment in cooking. And, and you kept it simple. Talk a little bit more about what simple means versus not simple. Yeah, you have to do to think about simple.
Harrison Gray
And I want to make a distinction on that first point to before I jump into that question, but you know, I think with the who you're surrounding yourself with, I think it's a matter of like, me taking accountability of my own willpower, right? Like, I didn't have the willpower at the time to say no to the social pressures of all those different components. So I think it's, it's a matter of building yourself up to a certain point where the saying no, in those situations is easy. So that's why I think like the it's not a matter, it's not necessarily a negative projection on the people that you're surrounding yourself with. Like, they could be doing all the right things, no, in isolation on their own.
And when they're hanging out with me, like I'm the, you know, I don't think they necessarily it's necessarily this thing that, you know, it's their problem. It's definitely an ownership of, hey, you need to have the willpower to say no, when people are presenting you with, you know, different opportunities to go socialize or go eat a bad meal. So I think it's more of like a take full accountability of how you're socializing and living your life. Because those opportunities are gonna be presented from five different people. And if you accept all five, then you've chosen not to be unhealthy. Five out of five times. So I think I think that's an important distinction to make. Because it is really a matter of building up that willpower to say no, when you need to. And so it's an empowering feeling. I think that when you do start feeling better, and start getting in the zone, so to speak, you feel comfortable making good decisions for yourself. And to matter,
Jack Heald
keeping it simple. How did? How did that? What did keep it simple look like for you? Yeah, just gonna expand on that.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, I think to keep it simple thing was sort of transcending in a few different in a few different areas of health. So the way I was cooking was very simple. Like, I think I would cook things that were five ingredients or less. So whether or not it was the chakra sort of stew, or like a taco salad or anything, it was all just incredibly simplified recipes. And also the way I was exercising, I had one workout routine that I would do two or three times a week, and then walking was the other supplementation to that. And I think that, you know, though, just that philosophy of simplicity, and making the lowest barrier to make it the lowest barrier to entry possible. So when, when I was kind of being, being in the situation that I was in working from home, and not having to move around, and everything was shut down. makes living that way, very easy. Like the amount of energy that I could put into living simply and, there wasn't people asking me to hang out on Friday and Saturday, so I could really focus in on that.
So I think that it was really a matter of letting that philosophy take holds early on. And then once you master that simple mindset, then you take it to level two and three, and four, and lean in where you can lean in to really get the results you want to get like if your goal is to be the most ripped up and shredded person on the planet, like, you're gonna start small to begin with and get further down the path of you know, growing that willpower and the strength to do everything you want to do, but it's not gonna happen overnight, you need to learn how to get the little things done. One of my favorite coaches is John Wooden, and he's all about the little things, tie your shoes the right way, put your jersey on the right way. And so for me, that's like the same philosophy and in eating, like, don't make it over complicated.
You don't need to do all these crazy diets and have all these crazy recipes, if you can find a recipe that is simple. And this is why I think the carnivore diet for many is a great solution is you can eat a steak, and that is your substance of your diet. That is that's basically all you need. And I think that that works for a lot of people. And I think that that simplicity mindset really allows you to spend your willpower outside of nutrition and health. And that's a good point it gives you it gives you the… You only have so much of that to give out right, you only have so much willpower to give out. And so when you make that the most efficient and effective through a simple diet, I think that's really kind of the key. And then it becomes
Jack Heald
easy. That that triggers a thought, um, if you're surrounded with people whose values aren't your own, you're expending willpower in order to continue to live out your own values. If you're surrounded in an environment that kind of forces you into a mold that is inconsistent with who you want to be you're expending willpower to continue on the trajectory you want to be on. And if that's true in your life, you definitely have less willpower available to you to do those. Those real simple things like not eat crap.
Harrison Gray
Absolutely.
Jack Heald
I you know, I guess it's both blindingly obvious, but it just never occurred to me that how real it is that if you're in a high stress lifestyle. It makes it more likely that you're going to eat crap, because the crap is easy, the crap doesn't take much effort, the craps just right there. And maybe the first step on getting a hold of your health is not necessarily the food, but the environment itself, take some stress out of the environment, if the only thing you can control is food, you know, by all means, do something about the food, but recognize all the places in your life, that you're exerting your finite amount of willpower just to survive this, it really resonates with me because of some of my history.
So I just want to I want to articulate that I want to say that out loud, so that people can find something to hold on to maybe your lifestyles just too bloody demanding. To, to make a big change in diet, find someplace you can exert that will. Or you can change your environment so that you've got the willpower to do the diet, or maybe the diets in the first place. I don't know, I haven't had to fight that particular battle. But I think that's noteworthy. That's a really noteworthy thing, we've got finite willpower.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Yeah, and it is interesting, you know, how often I see this, you know, with my patients hearing Harrison story and a lot of other people's story that, you know, when they do make the change, as to what they're eating, that sort of makes the stress go away, you know, a lot of a lot of this stress that we all, you know, that a lot of people feel in their daily lives, comes from being unhealthy and eating unhealthy foods, the effects that has on our, you know, mental health and everything else involved.
I can certainly say that, since I've gotten healthy, you know, my life, objectively, from the outside hasn't gotten less stressful, it's gotten more stressful, I've launched, you know, the, the my own separate practice, while continuing to work as a heart surgeon, and you know, all the other things, you know, that I have going on in my life, it's certainly not less stressful, I just feel less stressed, you know, as I go through my day, and, and a lot of people, you know, relayed the same to me, and I would be interested to hear Harrison's perspective on this, you know, because, again, what I see is, you know, you, you changed what you were eating, you got yourself healthy. And then, you know, you found your life leading down a completely different pathway. I would say that the those two are very closely related, besides the obvious fact that you're now building your life around nutrition, which is what allowed you to get healthy.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, I mean, that, my feeling is that the positive effects of eating healthier, have that compounding effect, where it does feed back into everything you're doing, like you said, the stress that, you know, it's a circular feedback loop, basically, like, if you're eating poorly, you're going to be more stressed. And then that just continues to compound.
Jack Heald
More stress, you're going to eat more poorly,
Harrison Gray
…excellent and directionally, it's either working backwards for you or forwards, like you're, it's either compounding negatively, and you're feeling stress, or you're eating well, and you're feeling what Dr. Phil is feeling which you're getting in the best shape your life and you're, you're able to take on more stress, because it's, it's the other stresses out of your life, you're able to go after the things that you want to go after. That's sort of how I felt was pretty empowered, by the way the nutrition and health aspects of my life changes, you know, that the effects that they were having on my life, I was ready to make a change, I was ready to move out of a job that I felt like was causing me to sort of go down, you know, living a life that I wasn't fully aligned with, like, there were certain parts that I loved, worked with a great team, but it wasn't like my mission.
And I think that having played sports in college, I'm a completely mission focused person. And so I want to be able to attach myself to something and really, like make an impact. And so, for me, I felt like I was running into resistance with my job and sort of my interest and then I just kind of had the time to think to myself like hey, what do you really give a crap about what do you want to do? And I think that all of this has sort of empowered me and gave me the conviction to, you know, get myself healthy and then get myself doing what I do. Want to do, which is ultimately working in promoting the regenerative agriculture lifestyle and how that feeds into the food system and the health system. And I think that there's a lot of people who are going to hear about the regenerative agriculture component to play in to nutrition and playing into people, you know, really getting a hold of their health again, because so many people have the opportunity to get back to a place where they've never been before, like, you know, reclaiming their health.
I think you can really like Reset, reset the clock on your life by taking a hold of things, and it isn't just something that's isolated in a vacuum, like, you didn't just lose 20 pounds, you lost 20 pounds, and now you're able to go do all the cool things that you wish you could have done, or, or you lost 20 pounds in how you're able to have the energy to get out of bed and do an extra hour of work, that you're actually excited about doing. I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. And I think that there's a total connection there with, you know, taking control of your health and, and, and doing more fun and exciting things with your life, I think it's just this empowering feeling. And it gives you once you sort of realize that you can be take control of that aspects of your life, you know, that you can do it in a lot of different ways. And not to mention, like, all this kind of aligned pretty well, like I was working on training, you know, got in great, got in great shape. And then, you know, fast forward a year, I'm training for an Ironman with one of my best friends. And so it's like, I was reaching for more and getting more out of it. And all of it has definitely played into the fact like what I'm doing now it's all it's all built upon each other. But I think Ground Zero really feels like that period where when COVID struck, I took the opportunity to take the time and really like focus on my health.
Jack Heald
Oh, let's hear about the present now. The meat mafia, first of all, as a professional marker marketer, I, I commend you, great name very memorable. Give us the details. What the heck's the meat mafia all about? I dig it, I want to know more.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, the real story here, or the story here is, is, is pretty funny. And it grew organically. So I started writing for slam in December. And I'm trying to figure out how to do this, right? So I'm trying to get into regenerative agriculture and learn more. And also figure out, you know, who's doing what in the space? What are the issues, how to make this thing grow, I'd heard some amazing stories about farmers like Gabe Brown, who wrote this book dirt to soil, which talks about how he flipped his farm from using a bunch of chemicals to no chemicals at all, through regenerative agriculture. And now his farm is more profitable. And he's producing in educating around the world about, you know, how to get rid of these chemicals, and raise really, really healthy animals without having to, you know, go through all these conventional processes that are taught in all of our schools, on how to farm. And so, you know, I'm, I was just interested in learning more about that. So I decided to figure out how to, you know, start writing on these topics and see if there's anyone out there already doing it, and Slim was doing it.
And he was looking for people to come write for him. And so I reached out to Slim. And he was, I had a piece that I was ready to publish, and he was excited about it. And he published it. And we went from there, there was just the first article went well, and he and I started talking, he's like, you know, this has got some traction, really well written, like, interested in what your vision is. And I'm sitting there like vision, whoa, I just wanted to write one article and figure out like, what, what the next steps were. And so it's been a constant iteration from that point forward of like, what are we going to do here? And I think that the key is that I think we've, so I wrote five articles, five articles for Slim. And we've been working together and collaborating on this idea around food intelligence, and really growing this idea around nutrition, which, you know, the first month I was doing this alone doing these longer form writing pieces for Slim substack.
And at the same time, Salazzo and I are living together. So Clemenza and Salazzo, run this Iron Man. And then we're living together, I'm writing for slim. And he's, we, I think about this story a lot. So we were living in an Airbnb, and we moved into my apartment in Austin, and he's hanging out, like sleeping on an air mattress on my floor, and I'm creating this anonymous account, to start writing for slim. trying to figure out what name I want to do, and I come up with this mafia idea. And so come up with a mafia character. And he's laughing at me the whole time, like thinking it's so funny. And he comes up with a counter character. And we just organically started running with this idea of, you know, the big food system has failed, so many people without them even realizing it. And there needs to be some organic movement that comes up and starts, like, not laying down the law, but like, saying, like, this is garbage, like why are we listening to the people who have led you astray to begin with. And I think that, you know, we're not trying to take an aggressive tone, but we're trying to say, like, people need to really be empowered by what they can do for themselves, and how they can make changes in their lives by educating themselves.
And I think that, that's kind of the root of our story, right? It was like, We, like I was interested in getting into regenerative agriculture, so I started writing about it. And then that led into other things that we could, you know, bond together with our nutrition background and our health background. And I think the vein that we're trying to play in is, this whole idea of health is, it's really a modern phenomenon, like beforehand, when we were just eating what was grown in our backyard, that wasn't highly processed. There weren't all these chronic issues. So now we have now we're like having to be conscious about what we're putting in our body and the choices that we make every day, more or at least more so conscious. And I think that sort of leads into our story where we're, we're in a place where we have some different experiences that we've had in our lives where we're ex athletes were, you know, focused on nutrition. And, and honestly, like a lot of the endurance sports, stuff was a big part of our background, but we've played a number of different sports. So really just living healthy lifestyles. And so that's where we're trying to make the most difference now is to be practitioners who can stand alongside great doctors like Dr. Phil, and the people who just embody what this whole movement is about.
And we don't necessarily need, you know, Harvard degrees to be voices in the space. We're extremely healthy individuals, and we want to help other people get to, you know, their own definition of health, so that they can live the life that they want to live. And I think a lot of that is just unlocking the knowledge banks that they can then go in and learn for themselves and equip themselves with what they need to take their life to where they want it to go. So, you know, our story is still being written for sure. Where the meat, then, you know, we're just getting started here. So we've had a lot of success with, you know, recently transitioning into writing these longer form threads talking a lot about what the food system historically has looked like.
Salazzo has written a few killer pieces on Rockefeller his role in the food system, Kellogg's role in the food system, I wrote one that was based on a great book called the Dorito effect, talking about how our taste buds have been manipulated by big food. And we've done you know, plenty of other ones. But we've been leaning into that form of content because it gets to a greater audience. And the content itself is extremely engaging. I think there's a ton there. And if it's not, it's not necessarily going to give you everything you need. It's not 100% Like here's all the tools but reduce it down enough. So if you're interested enough, you then can take the next step and sort of get on board with what we're talking about get in touch with a Dr. Phil's who are credentialed and going to be able to take you that extra mile. So you know, we sort of think of ourselves as like the gateway into this sort of lifestyle and movement and sort of Shepherd people along to the people who have the expertise like Dr. Phil in and then let him take it from there.
Jack Heald
Well, how do folks, I just flipped over here to Twitter and searched for meat mafia? I gotta tell ya, there's a lot of folks involved in the meat mafia here. So which means how to folks follow you or find out more about the meat mafia? And I'm guessing you're not the meat free mafia, which is a Twitter handle. I mean, I'm gonna check that one out just so I can troll them a little bit.
Harrison Gray
Yeah, so my, my account is Carnie Clemenza and Pullman's already go by Clemenza. And then my counterpart is Salazzo. And his account is Mr. Salazzo. So there's not one account, we sort of play off each other. Okay, um, you know, are both posting separately, working under the meat mafia brand and umbrella.
Jack Heald
Alright, we'll make sure that gets posted in the show notes. Absolutely. Well, any final words for us, Phil, want to wrap this up, we can go in about an hour. So we want to make sure we cover anything that has remaining uncovered.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Yeah, I hope people really enjoyed that conversation. And I think it will resonate with a lot of people. And it just, you know, again, this is something that as I talk about, you know, everyone needs to be doing for themselves, you know, and you really need to be taking agency over your life and over the food that you're eating and taking control of the food that you're eating. And it's I think, you know, Harrison is just one of those another, you know, great force in this movement, and a great example of, you know, what this, what this is about and what it can be, and as he said, it's really just getting started. So excited to continue to see where this all leads, and to keep having these conversations with all of the interesting people that we're coming across in this movement.
Jack Heald
I agree. Well, good luck there in South Austin Harrison. We talked about this online, and I just I'm still giggling about the fact that you moved from South Boston to South Austin, not merely because it rhymes, but because for those who know that cultural differences are profound. Well for Dr. Philip Ovadia, I'm Jack Heald.
I want to remind you all to subscribe to this podcast. We drop a new one every Tuesday about midnight. Now I guess that's Monday at midnight Tuesday mornings at 12am You can follow Dr. Phillip Ovadia at on Twitter at IFixHearts and his website is OvadiaHeartHealth.com.
Also Google the “meat mafia” for Salazzo and Clemenza. I think you're going to get a kick out of that.
And we'll talk to you guys next week.