Diet is the most neglected part of oral health. It is also the cause of why we have crooked teeth and many other oral problems. Kevin Stock, the first dentist to guest on the show, shares relevant information about the co-relation of food and diet to our teeth, with historical evidence, and how it also affects our metabolic health.
He was once an overweight kid so, at an early age, he was already interested in health and fitness. As a student, he joined physique competitions, but he knew he wasn’t healthy. He wanted to figure out the health and fitness code. A decade later, he has finally found both sides of the equation, and it's more than just body composition.
In this episode, he reveals the truth about the human diet according to fossilized teeth, the pros and cons of different dental procedures, and why it’s okay if we don’t do a 100% strict carnivore diet.
Quick Guide:
01:14 Introduction
06:32 It is not just body composition
09:31 Dental school reasons and his practices
14:22 The human diet according to the fossilized teeth
20:36 The constant learning process of finding solutions to dental problems
26:43 The reasons for getting cavities and the role of protein
33:01 Oral health and its relation to metabolic health
34:35 The research of Weston Price and how it’s still applicable now
39:02 Healthy carbs and the food processing issue
46:06 Meat-only diet and making carnivore work
1:03:48 Closing and contacts
Get to know our guest:
Kevin Stock majored in chemistry, but instead of taking the pre-med route, he continued to dental school. His area of focus is obstructive sleep apnea and sleep-disordered breathing.
“It's a poor diet that causes damage to the mouth that is causing the same kind of metabolic damage that impairing the heart as well as the brain. So, I do think that is the root cause here for sure.”
Connect with him:
Websites:
https://www.kevinstock.io/
https://meat.health/
Signup for the Saturday 7 newsletter:
https://www.kevinstock.io/saturday-7/
Episode snippets:
06:32 - 08:08 - Body composition, health, and fitness
18:00 - 19:28 - If we’re eating an appropriate diet, we should not be getting cavities
22:27 - 23:26 - The constant learning process in the dental field
27:19 - 27:49 - The best way to get cavities
32
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
Diet is the most neglected part of oral health. It is also the cause of why we have crooked teeth and many other oral problems. Kevin Stock, the first dentist to guest on the show, shares relevant information about the co-relation of food and diet to our teeth, with historical evidence, and how it also affects our metabolic health.
He was once an overweight kid so, at an early age, he was already interested in health and fitness. As a student, he joined physique competitions, but he knew he wasn’t healthy. He wanted to figure out the health and fitness code. A decade later, he has finally found both sides of the equation, and it's more than just body composition.
In this episode, he reveals the truth about the human diet according to fossilized teeth, the pros and cons of different dental procedures, and why it’s okay if we don’t do a 100% strict carnivore diet.
Quick Guide:
01:14 Introduction
06:32 It is not just body composition
09:31 Dental school reasons and his practices
14:22 The human diet according to the fossilized teeth
20:36 The constant learning process of finding solutions to dental problems
26:43 The reasons for getting cavities and the role of protein
33:01 Oral health and its relation to metabolic health
34:35 The research of Weston Price and how it’s still applicable now
39:02 Healthy carbs and the food processing issue
46:06 Meat-only diet and making carnivore work
1:03:48 Closing and contacts
Get to know our guest:
Kevin Stock majored in chemistry, but instead of taking the pre-med route, he continued to dental school. His area of focus is obstructive sleep apnea and sleep-disordered breathing.
“It's a poor diet that causes damage to the mouth that is causing the same kind of metabolic damage that impairing the heart as well as the brain. So, I do think that is the root cause here for sure.”
Connect with him:
Websites:
https://www.kevinstock.io/
https://meat.health/
Signup for the Saturday 7 newsletter:
https://www.kevinstock.io/saturday-7/
Episode snippets:
06:32 - 08:08 - Body composition, health, and fitness
18:00 - 19:28 - If we’re eating an appropriate diet, we should not be getting cavities
22:27 - 23:26 - The constant learning process in the dental field
27:19 - 27:49 - The best way to get cavities
32
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
S3E14 Kevin Stock
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
eating, diet, teeth, meat, problems, carnivore, cavities, health, dentist, sugar, kevin, vitamin c, today, dental school, dentistry, carbohydrates, nutrition, processed food, oral health, overweight
SPEAKERS
Announcer, Jack Heald, Kevin Stock, Dr. Philip Ovadia
Announcer 00:10
He was a morbidly obese surgeon destined for an operating table and an early death. Now he's a rebel MD who is fabulously fit and fighting to make America healthy again. This is Stay Off My Operating Table with Dr. Philip Ovadia.
Jack Heald 00:38
Hey folks, it's the Stay Off My Operating Table podcast with Dr. Philip Ovadia. We are thrilled today, and I'm not Dr. Ovadia. Anybody who's listened to the show before knows I'm just Jack Heald, the talking hairdo who asks silly questions. We're thrilled to be joined today by Kevin Stock. I think he's only the second dentist we've had. Is that right, Phil? No, no, he may be the first.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 01:02
I believe he is the first. Yeah. I don't have a dentist on yet.
Jack Heald 01:07
So why have we got a tooth grinder on this show? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 01:14
Well, as we're going to find out through this conversation, the mouth is really one of our interaction points with the outside world in terms of what we put in it, and how we start to process what we put in it. And it turns out that the mouth can not only give us a great insight into our health, but it's also a very important part of our health. And I'm really excited. And I think Kevin has really been very progressive on this front, recognizing the interplay between our oral health and our overall health. And he has been talking about metabolic health, really for a long time now. I know when I first started on this journey, he was one of the ones I came across quite early. So really excited to have him on the show. And with that, let me introduce Kevin Stock and Kevin, why don't you give our audience a little bit of your backstory.
Kevin Stock 02:18
Sir, well, thank you for having me on, excited to chat. To keep the backstory, I guess, short, I mean, diving down any rabbit hole as we want to go down. But like you said, I've been interested in metabolic health, really, fitness for a very long time. I grew up as an overweight kid. And that's what was the impetus to me getting into the health field. And so, I say, I was interested in health and fitness since a very early age, it was really, I was interested in fitness early on. And so throughout high school is when, actually Junior High is when I really dove and started doing some really dumb nutrition experiments. But start to figure things out...
Jack Heald 02:54
Okay. Just give us an example. One dumb nutrition experience experiment.
Kevin Stock 02:58
So, I will say it was junior high, probably seventh or eighth grade, where, I guess I would say I wasn’t smart enough to realize that, like, if I ate less and exercise more, I could lose weight. And so, I went on these 333 plans, whereas basically 300 calories for breakfast, 300 calories for lunch, 300 calories for dinner, and I was going to run three miles a day. And that is not a recommended nutrition or exercise plan as you can imagine. So that's just one of many, many examples.
Jack Heald 03:34
Are you falling asleep in math class?
Kevin Stock 03:38
Gosh, I just, I withered away pretty quickly and as you can imagine...
Jack Heald 03:44
I didn’t mean to take you off track. You said dumb experiments and I'm gonna want to know what it is.
Kevin Stock 03:49
Yeah, and I've done, I went through many more. I learned many of the lessons the hard way, unfortunately.
Jack Heald 03:56
You learn those lessons, though, right? The ones that are learned the hard way, you don’t forget those.
Kevin Stock 04:02
It's funny because I was at a college roommate’s wedding this past weekend. And we're of course reminiscing, like on my stupid diet experiments and they went through high school, they went through college. And I'd say by the time I was in dental school is when I started to, like, really get a grip on things. But I spent almost a decade doing some really dumb stuff. So.
Jack Heald 04:24
Okay, I'm a marketer. So, I think there's going to be a massive market for a book with a title something along the lines of dumb diet experiments I tried. Here’s a list.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 04:41
Dumb experiments done well, I think that might be a good topic.
Jack Heald 04:48
Okay, back to the business at hand.
Kevin Stock 04:52
Yeah, so the long story short, I did these experiments in college, I would say is when I started like, at least get the feel of things a little bit better. I got a degree in chemistry and minors in biology and also a minor in business. And I really funneled all the, really chemistry I wasn't interested in, but I could funnel through the lens of how can I use this biochem to build muscle and lose fat. And I went to dental school, that's another discussion like how I decided on that we could go down that rabbit hole if desired. But in dental school, I really started to figure out the fitness compartment. I did a couple of physique competitions, one in dental school, one after dental school. And I really kind of dialed that in. But I had not by figured out the fitness code, I was lacking the health and fitness code. And so, the health part that was the journey that took about another decade after that, where I now feel like I finally have both sides of the equation.
Jack Heald 05:49
Can I ask you, because this is really counterintuitive now, and this is a serious question. You were doing physique competition; I assume that means bodybuilding. And yet, at least, as I understand what you just said, you really weren't healthy.
Kevin Stock 06:07
Yeah.
Jack Heald 06:10
Would you mind maybe expanding on that a little bit? Because as a layman, my assumption, although I know that bodybuilders are extreme, but my assumption has always been at least those guys are pretty damn healthy.
Kevin Stock 06:29
Healthy, right?
Jack Heald 06:30
Yeah. Well, that’s my assumption.
Kevin Stock 06:32
I think a lot of the confusion here is because in the United States, 70% of the population is either overweight or obese. So, if this 70% of people lose weight, they are likely to get healthier. So that's going to confound just about all research right there. But what I have found, personal experience, lots of personal examples, actually, myself, my family, who doesn't necessarily struggle with weight issues, all kinds of health issues. So, my dad is a perfect example. He's recently retired. He is 165 pounds who golfs basically every day, he works out several times a week, you look at him, you're like, this is a healthy guy. But he's had all like, when you when we talk about like chronic issues, like he's had them all, he can't eat without taking pills. He recently had a CAT scan, which is really high. He's had the gallbladder taken out; he has kidney stones. He has the whole gamut. And so yes, a lot of people think you just lose weight and get healthy. But to me, there is a, that's true for a lot of people, they're overweight, they're obese, you lose weight, you get healthier, but just focusing on body composition alone, I feel a short side. And there's certain doctors out there that I know, they push everything. It's like, hey, just eat to satiety, eat lots, like satiety for nutrition, there's like the PE diet. I love Dr. Ted Naiman, so I'm just picking on him a little bit. But whenever I hear him talk, and he's always just talking body composition, body composition, body composition. I'm like, well, there is another side to the story. Like it's health and fitness.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 08:10
Yeah, and I think that's a great point. One of the things that we've discussed them on the show, and I've certainly observed is there's a difference between being overweight and metabolically unhealthy. And those two do usually go together. But what you need to do to correct that problem is different than what someone who has always been fit might do, might get away with, I often say, and so to a certain degree, being very fit, working out to high levels, maybe some people would say excess levels, can maybe start, can cover up some of these things in terms of the diet for a while. But we oftentimes see that it catches up with people. And there are numerous examples of athletes, high-level athletes, and then as they get older, and they sort of cut back on their athletic pursuit, it becomes obvious how unhealthy they are.
Kevin Stock 09:18
Yeah, that's the other side of the coin where you can actually for a time out workout a bad diet. If you're young enough, active enough, and a lot of times that comes back and that creeps up on you.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 09:31
So, let's, I would love to hear a little bit more about what led you to dental school and what the attraction was there?
Kevin Stock 09:41
Sure. So, I have a brother, he's one year older than me. I have a couple of other younger brothers as well. But my older brother was also in the health, he was, we have similar stories. He was overweight as well. We are both kind of math science oriented. He was going the pre-med route. And I was kind of in the same thing because I didn't really know, I was only interested in fitness. And I guess the natural thing was like pre-med. And I worked for one of my really good friends, his dad's an internist. I worked for him for a summer. I shadowed a bunch of surgeons, basically, everyone talked me out of going to medical school. He said, look, you don't want to work for insurance companies. And we had a family friend who was a dentist, he seemed to, like, enjoy the profession. And so, I was like that's a good aside, like good hours, you help people. Let's do that. And now I have a different perception on choosing careers. Now that I've gone through that, like choosing a career based on doing it, you only have to do it a little bit of time. Like, that's not the way I would choose a career now. I’d choose something like, hey, I really want to do what, I want to spend a lot of time in this area, not, oh, I only have to work 30, 40 hours a week. So, but that's what led me into the dental field. And that's not like all regret. There's a lot of positives that have come out of that. But that's what was the initial lead into dentistry.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 11:03
And then, so when you get, you finished school and you go into practice at a dentist. Was the sort of health aspect of it immediately part of your practice? Because, frankly, most dentists don't pay attention to health. They pay attention to how your teeth look. And the health of the teeth themselves, but they don't connect it to the health of the rest of the body.
Kevin Stock 11:30
So, I have I've had a very untraditional route post dental school. When I was in dental school, I realized what I was kind of just telling you, like, do I really want to drill and fill teeth 40 hours a week for the next 4 years if I'm not really super passionate about it? And so, I kind of had a little quarter life crisis in dental school. But there was an area of dentistry that really pulled on me, which was only like touched on in dental school and it was obstructive sleep apnea. And this is shocking to me, we didn't really talk about it much in dental school, but after I graduated, I did a ton of continuing education in this area. And so, when I graduated the that fall, I started a practice where all I did was it's called Dental Sleep Medicine, where I treat obstructive sleep apnea and sleep disordered breathing. That was one area of dentistry. So, I did that. And then on the side are also I've done Pediatric Dentistry since I graduated. So those have been the two areas of dentistry I've focused on the most, treating kids with general dentistry and treating obstructive sleep apnea with adults. And the obstructive sleep apnea really grabbed me because it is directly related with what we're talking about metabolic dysfunction, overweight, obesity, and dentist have a, I would say, a unique kind of offer for patients that we can go through, we can we can go down that route. Definitely not right for everyone, but it's a good option for a lot of people with sleep apnea. So that's the areas of dentistry I've spent the most time, in the sleep realm and in the pediatric dentistry. And with the kids, I do my best to hey, drinking all the sugar, eating all the sugar, all the carbs, it's not the best but it's really hard unless you get real buy in from parents and the Pediatric Dentistry, I do is I work for this company called Smile America Partners. And they basically shipped me around rural Missouri where there's no dentist and a lot of just Medicaid and so I'm really seeing an under kind of lower socio-economic underserved population that it's hard to get across the diet aspect for a number of reasons, so we do the best we can but yeah, diet is like the neglected part of I would say dentistry but maybe just health in general.
Jack Heald 13:43
Wow. So, I want to drill down into, I was, when I do my research on a on a guest, I try to find everything I can about you before I have you on so I can ask very uncomfortable questions of course. You have in the free book that you sent out which need health masterclass? No that’s not it. What's the name of the booklet that you sent? It's good.
Kevin Stock 14:14
I've written, yeah, a number of like, free eBooks people can download. There’s Health Dangers of Plant-based Diet, which is a clickbaity title but...
Jack Heald 14:22
Yeah, that's the one. And you probably, I'm guessing you use this metaphor elsewhere. But you have the metaphor. If humanity as a species had started at midnight today, we've only been eating, I'm not sure. I don't remember exactly what it was. Or the last. I can’t remember what you said. Two minutes or something like that. We've got a very loyal audience, but it's also a growing audience. So, there's going to be people who are going to hear this for the first time, and I'd love for you to just kind of expand on that particular metaphor that I see you use a lot.
Kevin Stock 15:08
Sure. And I'll leave in, I'll change it a little bit because I've used it in the past, and I've kind of refined it to help understanding a little bit. One is, so I'm fascinated by archaeology, anthropology, and especially dental archaeology, anthropology, because teeth are like the ideal fossils. So, with that said, if we took homo Sapiens, modern human and this according to archaeology, oldest Homo sapiens are roughly 300,000 years old. If we put all of homosapien on a calendar year, so the dawn of homosapien January 1, today is December 31, the end, the new year starting, so all 300,000 years, farming took place two weeks ago. So, for 50 weeks, there was no farming, there was no agriculture and industrial revolution, basically...
Jack Heald 15:59
What's the date roughly?
Kevin Stock 16:04
10,000 years ago, it was the agricultural revolution. So, on that timescale, it'd be roughly two weeks on the calendar year, the last two weeks is agriculture. Industrial Revolution basically happened today, which means for 50 years of Homo Sapien existence, we didn't have agriculture. And we didn't have these industrial process foods, like which make up most of the diet today. And so, I think if people just do that thought experiment and go, okay, well, what would I've eaten for those 50 weeks? Especially if you take into consideration like, where were we geographically like in Africa, Savanna. Like, you can only really come to one conclusion. And it's a similar conclusion that a lot of study on early Homo sapiens come to, like, we had to have eaten a very heavy meat-based diet.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 16:51
Yeah, and expanding on that a little bit, when you then look at processed food, and that basically is like the last couple of seconds of the year, if that’s you’re talking about, it gets introduced, just as the ball is starting to drop, so to speak. And again, the evidence is that during that last two weeks that we had farming, and then during those last few seconds that we have processed food, our health has clearly worsened. And now we're really seeing the effects of that today, where for the first time in recorded history lifespan is actually decreasing. So, it's a major concern.
Jack Heald 17:38
So, what have you learned from the fossilized teeth of our ancient ancestors? What's that fossil record show? And maybe to explain what it means too.
Kevin Stock 18:00
Sure. Lots of great work by all kinds of archaeologists. Notable one, Richard Klein, Stanford, very kind of renowned archaeologist. He's basically quoted as saying, early Homo sapiens skulls never seen one with malocclusion basically, never saw crooked teeth. And really, they highlight and other research highlights this fact that at the dawn of the agricultural revolution, which was two weeks ago, on that example, is when we see a dramatic rise in caries, cavities in the teeth, caries abscesses, and we see a slight increase and perhaps some malocclusion, but malocclusion takes off with the Industrial Revolution. And so... Crooked teeth. So basically, if you have kids these days, we almost expect all kids to have braces. And most people assume that's just hereditary. When that is contrary to what we find in the archaeological record. It is very much environmental. And there's probably some epigenetic components to it, which I would assume is probably true. But yeah, it's not like the default human blueprint, genetic blueprint, we should not be all 32 teeth should fit in, like we shouldn't need to be getting our wisdom teeth taken out, our teeth should be coming in straight. And if we're eating appropriate diet, we should not be getting cavities. So, I think that is pretty clear in archaeological record.
Jack Heald 19:30
Are there any other animal species that have crooked teeth?
Kevin Stock 19:35
Just the ones we domesticate, domesticated dogs will get some, they'll get some. They'll also interestingly get obstructive sleep apnea as well. So, no, really like other animals, they don't have like the oral problems that we do as humans, which is mostly diet induced.
Jack Heald 19:55
That's just...
Dr. Philip Ovadia 19:57
Yeah, that's pretty amazing. I've never really thought about but do wild animals get cavities at all? It means that described in wild animals?
Kevin Stock 20:05
Very rarely. So, it's a rare phenomenon. And yeah, it is very interesting you think about that, like wild animals, they don't get obese, they don't get cavities. They don't get malocclusion, like what is going on here? But the ones we do domesticate, the ones we put in zoos and feed other more modern manmade foods, they do get these problems. They get heart disease. The gorillas get atherosclerosis. So, yeah.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 20:35
Yeah, pretty amazing.
Jack Heald 20:36
So, the first season of this show was basically me asking Dr. Ovadia about things that he said in his book, and asking him to kind of reveal the dirty dark secrets of the medical establishment as he has seen it from the inside. And he said, forgive me if I get your quotes wrong here, Phil, but the gist of it was, in medical school, they told him that half of what they're, what he's taught in medical school is wrong, they just don't know which half and we’ll figure it out. And here he is, a couple of decades past medical school, and has learned a lot of the stuff that was wrong. So, with that as kind of the intro, is there the same kind of situation in dental school? Have you stumbled into in school, they told me this, and I've since found out that was completely wrong? And if so, if you don't mind, what is that?
Kevin Stock 21:36
Yeah, I think so. And not to do like put blame on the dental industry or whatnot, I think they do the best they can, because a lot of these problems are in the scheme of things new. So, we introduced these new foods, we start getting malocclusion, and now we need to orthodontist, like orthodontia is a few 100 years old, a little bit older than 100 years old is like, so in the realm of fields, that's a pretty small field. Like it hasn't existed for a long time. But we create these new problems and we need to create solutions to them. And in dentistry, yes, it's been ongoing, learning process. Like, what is it come to light, I'll say more recently is like maybe these amalgam fillings with mercury aren't so good. Maybe root canals could potentially not be the best solution. But I always go back and also play devil's advocate slash defender of the dental industry, in that, for example, if someone gets a cavity, well, we need to do something. So, we have to do something, and it's not going to be as good as your original tooth. So, like, that's the default baseline. So, we're automatically going to have like cost and benefits, you can do nothing, and it's going to likely get worse. So, we have to do something. And so, at the time amalgam was the best dental material. And we've had other things like, for example, that if you don't do nothing to get, you need a root canal, okay? There's pros and cons to that. But then, if you want, one of the solutions is take the tooth out. But then there's pros and cons to that, especially, we want to replace it with a dental implant, which now you're putting metal on to the bone, pros and cons to that. So, a lot of this is like, it's kind of like polypharmacy, like you have a problem, and then you try and fix, find a solution. But that solution has problems. So maybe you gotta find another solution. And yeah, I think it's a constant learning process.
Jack Heald 23:27
There's going to be a very small subset of the of the audience that cares about the answer to this question. And I'm in this small subset. What's the metal that's used in an implant?
Kevin Stock 23:40
There are all kinds of metals, they'll use titanium, they'll use ceramics. And so, there's various kinds of metals they'll use. A lot of them are titanium today, but people who are more, they're called biologic dentists. Biologic dentists are kind of the parallel of functional medicine practitioners, they try and do the holistic solutions. They'll use ceramics because metals cause issues.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 24:05
Yeah, maybe we can get into the sort of controversial area there about the amalgam fillings, and I don't know how much people in the audience may or may not be aware of this issue. They were what they are widely used. I think they're still the most common fillings done here in the US. They've been banned in many countries outside the US. And there's a lot of controversy about the long-term impact of having this mercury, basically, in your mouth for, if you're talking about kids in the young adults getting fillings, they might be in there for 60, 70 years. So, what's your take on that?
Kevin Stock 24:51
So, I will say the tide has turned and at least, for example, the company I'm working for, we don't we don't use any amalgam. I think a lot of practices have stopped using amalgam. Now, they're... So, amalgam, like you said has the mercury. And a common question people will have was like, oh, I have amalgams should I get them taken out, but it's really important to recognize that the dentist taking those out, I don't want to say they should be like a biologic dentist, but you can cause more harm taking that out than just leaving it in because of an acute mercury exposure. So, it needs to be done properly, they need to use something known as a rubber dam, they need to have proper suction evacuation. So, you're not inhaling mercury vapors. Ideally, you don't get cavities. But if you do, a lot of people are moved away from amalgam fillings and have used composites. Composites have their own problems, they leak more, they have BPA. And so, once again, it's those pros and cons that we have to weigh. Most people go for composite fillings today which are white colored. So, there's aesthetic reasons for that as well. But yeah, in general, you don't want to have fillings. If you do, you get an amalgam, I would say, a lot of people depending on the situation, maybe leave them in. But if you're going to take them out, get them taken out by the right person who's very careful, does it in the right way. But then there's also you just got to be conscientious of the other dental materials that you're putting forth and stuff that's going to be embedded in your mouth for many, many years. So, you just got to be cognizant of the pros and cons. I think a lot of the cons, we still don't know, kind of like we were talking about, there's 50% of these dental materials we’ll learn and 50 years from now that's like, we shouldn't have been using that composite material we should have been using XYZ.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 26:43
Yeah, so along those lines, but what should we be doing to prevent ourselves from getting cavities in the first place and leaving these fillings?
Kevin Stock 26:54
So, cavities are almost entirely caused by diet, and specifically, carbohydrates. And sugar and sugar drinks play an especially large role in decay. And so, I like to give an example of like, what's the worst thing you can do so people can kind of like backtrack to be like, Okay, that is the worst thing. So, I can understand this in a continuum. And like the worst thing someone could do for their teeth is, or I should say, the best way to get cavities is to drink sugary drinks. And the reason being is, there's a study that shows 93% of sugary drinks that you go buy at a store, whether it's sugar or not, 93% of store-bought drinks are acidic already, they have things like citric acid, malic acid, phosphoric acid, they have these acids that are going to lower the pH of the oral environment. So that's straight number one.
Jack Heald 27:49
What that means in English is lowering the pH of the oral environment, explain.
Kevin Stock 27:57
Sure, that the, your mouth will get more acidic and acid will erode the teeth. And the acid is what will actually cause decay. So, you don't actually...
Jack Heald 28:12
It ain’t actually the sugar, at least the sugar alone, it's the acid that’s softening the enamel, I assume, and creating an environment much more conducive to this stuff that eats away at your teeth.
Kevin Stock 28:34
Right, so the acid in itself, let's say someone who's bulimic, for example, they will basically, the acid from the stomach will come out into the teeth, that will cause erosion, and it'll lead away the enamel and will make the teeth more prone to decay. But the cavities that we are most familiar with is a byproduct of sugar, which was like the next ingredient where bacteria, certain bacteria in the mouth will ferment the sugar. And that process creates acid, a localized attack of acid. And that's what will eat through the enamel, through the dentin cause the cavities as most people know them.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 29:10
And talk about the role of protein in teeth, in the health of your teeth and in cavity formation as well.
Kevin Stock 29:21
Sure, I mean, well, protein, kind of, I like to think of this in two ways. One is there is the defense and was so there's like if you think of the like a battle going on, you got the acid attack from the bacteria. But we also have defense mechanisms. Notably, saliva plays a huge role in defense mechanism by providing minerals like calcium and phosphate, as well as proteins and enzymes that are going to combat the other side. And so, there's kind of this, this constant battle going on which when we have a proper diet, like the protective mechanism is strong enough that we're not going to get decay. So, protein plays the crucial role and providing the strength of teeth as well as the defense. And I'm trying to say this in layman's terms, but also fats play a very important role. Vitamin A, vitamin K to vitamin D play very important roles in the strengthening of the tooth structure, basically the immune system is the defense of the tooth structure. So, from the defensive side, nutrition plays a very important role. And from like the side waging war, carbs and sugar. We need this defensive side to kind of ward that attack off.
Jack Heald 30:36
Is there any activity, any behavior that has as powerful an effect on your dental health as what you eat?
Kevin Stock 30:55
I would say no. Oral Hygiene is kind of a good band aid for a bad diet for oral health. So, someone's eating a bad diet. And they're flossing every day, they're brushing twice a day, they're using the special ingredients in toothpaste to help remineralize the teeth, you can eat a bad diet and still not suffer poor oral health, as long as you're really on top of it. And kind of depends on how bad the diet is. This is kind of like the example of you're working out like two hours a day really hard. And so even though you're eating the junk diet, you're getting away with it for a while. So, I would equate it to that. But what you eat is the most important. And if we kind of go back to the example, like the worst thing you can do, you got these drinks that are already acidic, they have sugar. Now sugar, like we talked about creates the acid attack, and then you're not chewing. So, chewing stimulates saliva, and saliva has those defense properties, right? And most of standard American diet today is like soft, most people like hardly, they don't chew at all, basically. And so that's just an absolute recipe for disaster. And then the last worst thing about those sugar drinks is what's kind of unique about decay is or this like this pH drop like this acidic environment, you get an attack, like for example, you drink a sip of Red bull, you get a 22-minute acid attack on your teeth, the body will then fight that acid off, rebound, or re-get to a neutral pH. But what's particularly damaging about drinks is people tend to just sit on these things all throughout the day. So, the body can never recover. It's always in the low pH acidic state. And so, I like to give an example of this is the worst thing you can do. So, what the reverse of that would be like how you prevent decay, like you eat infrequently, you don't eat a lot of carbs, sugar, you eat something that causes you to chew and stimulate saliva. And so, like all these are kind of like clues like, man, we should be eating a lot more meat.
Jack Heald 32:57
Things that you have to chew. Goodness.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 33:01
Yeah, it's amazing. There has been for a long time the connection between oral health and heart health has been actually well known. And it's been very well documented that people that have worse oral health end up with heart problems. And that was traditionally the prevailing theory around that is that bacteria from your mouth end up into your bloodstream, and those can then damage the blood vessels and lead to heart disease. I believe, and I think we have a fair amount of evidence to support this, that it really is just that they're the same root cause problem. The poor metabolic health ends up getting reflected in your oral microbiome and in your oral health. And of course, poor metabolic health is the primary root cause of heart disease as well. But I'd love to hear your thinking on that.
Kevin Stock 33:59
I agree 100% with what you said, like periodontal disease is classically associated with heart disease as well as neurological Alzheimer's issues. And I think some people will try and stretch that and say, Periodontal Disease is causing heart disease and neurological conditions when I don't think it's causative, I think it's correlative meaning these things have the same underlying root cause. It's a poor diet that causes damage to the mouth that is causing the same kind of metabolic damage that impairing the heart as well as the brain. So, I do think that is the root cause here for sure.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 34:35
Yeah, and it's very interesting to see that connection. And one of the earliest pioneers in the sort of metabolic health space was, of course, the dentist, Weston A Price. And his research, really, his research which was from the 1920s set the groundwork for our understanding of metabolic health. And he saw it in the oral health as he was going around the world studying these ancestral populations and seeing that once westernized food got introduced to them, they develop these oral health problems and develop the metabolic health problems that go along with it.
Kevin Stock 35:21
Yeah, I think he's some of the most fascinating research, because it simply can't be replicated. And like you said, in the early 1900s, was this unique time where all of a sudden, we had this invention of airplanes, we had the camera, and we had the transition of these industrialized foods into these typical indigenous diets. And so, he was able to travel the world, five continents, countless different tribes, and compare with photography, indigenous diets, were like, they'd be in the same country, for example, like next door neighbors where they were eating their indigenous diets, but down the street, there was a street that connected them to the modern processed foods, which were in his time, notably, lots of sugar and flours. And he could just see like right then and there, like this is like perfect epidemiological research. The people that were eating the flours and the sugar, they got malocclusion, they got decay. And his seminal book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration was like, the oral cavity degeneration is directly associated to the physical degeneration that he saw on these people.
Jack Heald 36:34
Say that again? Cause I was thinking as you were talking. So, what's the actual mechanism of screwed up teeth, crooked teeth, cavities? What's really going on? And I think that's what you were, uh, you gave evidence that the connection is there, but what's going on? Why is it that eating screwy stuff makes our teeth crooked?
Kevin Stock 37:03
So, Weston Price’s hypothesis, which I would probably add a little bit to it because of his book is like 500 plus pages dense. And the main conclusion is these modern processed foods, notably sugar and flours, displaced highly nutritious foods, meats, mostly meats, animal-based foods, but also various cultures had other things, they had dairy, they had, some had rye. But basically, these nutrient poor foods displaced the healthy foods. And so basically new nutritional deficiencies were leading to decay, degeneration, etc. You know what's fascinating in his book, all 500 pages, this is the early 20th century, he does not once mention overweight or obesity. And to me, that was striking. People that are eating all that sugar and all this flour, and he takes all these meticulous notes on these people, their mouths, their physical structure, like once you mentioned like, oh, these people eating this or they have more body fat, but not once in the entire book does he mentioned that. And I think one thing that I have made a video that Dr. Weston A Price left out, which I don't think he left out intentionally. It's just it wasn't there yet, were these modern processed vegetable oils, those really didn't come into existence like Crisco was 1911. And it wasn't until really the mid-20th century where these vegetable oils started to take off, which I think play a prominent role in obesity. And so, I think, Doctor Weston Price noted, the deficiency of vitamins, minerals, nutrition, whereas today, I think we still have that to a large degree, but we also have this problem of abundance, this problem of excess consumption. And so, we I think we have a double whammy problem today. Whereas perhaps in the early 20th century is more like deficiencies, and today, it's more deficiencies plus excess.
Jack Heald 39:02
I'm glad you brought that up. Because, and I want to throw a question to both of you as the resident layman here, I've been hearing about the evils of grains with Dr. Ovadia and really, for years before that, and had had observed in my own body if I don't eat grains, my digestion is better. That's just kind of my personal experience. And so, when I heard grains vilified, it made sense to me. However, this doesn't make sense. And I want to hear you guys. I just, I'd like to hear some discussion about this. My oldest daughter lives in Switzerland. I never thought she was overweight, but she moved to Switzerland and has gotten then. I mean, she looks fabulous. She'd been there 12 years, I guess. Her weekly diet, her husband makes, I think, he makes seven loaves of bread every Saturday, and they eat this homemade bread. At least one meal a day is bread and cheese. Apparently, that's a Swiss thing. I don't know. She moved to Switzerland from Japan, where she had run a marathon, eating a Japanese diet and had lost weight. And I thought she looked good. But my gosh, the weight fell off when she went to Switzerland, the diet she eats compared to what I've thought problems were, it looks like she should be fat and developing diabetes and have all kinds of inflammation. Not so. My speculation is whatever this bread is that they're eating, whatever the flour they're making it out of, that's got to be different than what what's happening over here. Could you guys talk about that? It's a puzzle to me.
Kevin Stock 41:24
Sir, I think there's some... First of all, like, I like to look at historical precedent. And there's been many, I'll say carb-based heavy starch eating societies that have no issues with diabetes. Chinese, whatever, eat tons of rice, Chinese rice farmers, there's groups where they ate like, that reported, like 90% of their calories from like, sweet potatoes, no obesity. And so, I do think, I think this kind of gets to the vegetable oils I think is the primary driver of obesity. But I do think sugars absolutely play a role. To your point, I do think there's also differences in American wheat and genetically modified or we're doing something weird to it that is really causing problems. Because even the gluten is different chemically. And so, I do think that is a potential thing. Like most people experience, like you hear the stories, they experience the opposite of your daughter. They're fit. Yeah, wherever they are, they move the United States and you just get fat. That's what happens when you move here. So, I do think, like, so this is kind of almost brings everything full circle what we're talking about. It may not be the healthiest diet, like you can be fit, like not overweight and fat and but not be metabolically healthy. So, I would say that as a precursor. But at the same time, if she is eating, let's say just, I'll say more or less healthier carbs. And there's, we could talk a lot about that. Because yeah, if what is packaged along with that carbohydrate, right, versus and she's also getting a lot of good nutrition, like a lot of healthy meats, you said cheese, dairy, so maybe she's getting fine on the nutritional side of...
Jack Heald 43:13
Well, it’s Switzerland, they're pretty strict about what the government will allow to be grown and sold. So, I think everything they eat is probably grown within just a few miles of their house.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 43:29
Yeah, it really comes back to the food processing issue. And what we call bread here, and what they call bread then that her husband has made in his home using local ingredients are two completely different foods and they just happen to share a name, but I think it's really comes down to the food processing and yeah, it may not necessarily be the carbohydrate them itself, the wheat itself. But in the American diet, you can't separate basically processed food from carbohydrates and sugar, they're always together. And though, I don't think that all carbohydrates are necessarily bad. It's just that we have to be practical here in the US. It's hard to get the clean carbohydrates. And the other caveat there is if you are already metabolically unhealthy, then all carbohydrates are bad, because your body can no longer process carbohydrates, that's one of the sort of mechanistic problems that occurs with poor metabolic health. So again, it's a different situation if you are already metabolically unhealthy, but if you are metabolically healthy, I think we have many samples of yeah, you can tolerate carbohydrates. You just can't tolerate processed food. Processed food, ultimately, is the thing that carries through all of this. And you can argue about which component of the processed food it might be. But in the end, it doesn't matter. It's the processed food that is really causing the majority of the chronic diseases in this country and worldwide is that processed food is spread worldwide.
Jack Heald 45:32
Phil, would you expand a little bit on something you said, if you're if you're metabolically unhealthy, you can no longer tolerate carbohydrates? What's the mechanism of that? Is that the insulin sensitivity or insensitivity?
Dr. Philip Ovadia 45:50
it has to do with your insulin sensitivity, but that's basically what type two diabetes is. You have become carbohydrate intolerant. And so, the solution to that problem is stop eating carbohydrates in all their forms.
Jack Heald 46:06
And give your insulin receptors a chance to recover and reset. Okay, that makes sense. All right, Kevin. There's this unique aspect of Kevin Stock, the public persona, that you're definitely not the first of this type. But you're still in a very, very small cadre of individuals. Apparently, you only eat meat.
Kevin Stock 46:36
Yes, pretty much.
Jack Heald 46:39
How long has that been going on? And what were the transformations that you experienced personally, as a result of moving to a meat only diet?
Kevin Stock 46:52
So, for me, we're kind of talking about I figured out this fitness, but I didn't feel great. Especially I was working on many projects. And I really wanted the mental performance to be able to like not have to just live on coffee and I just want to build a go, like all day. I got this big to do list, I'm relying on coffee, I'm tired, I'm etc. And to kind of make a long story short, this was 2016. I've done a ketogenic diet before I was like, okay, maybe I just really needed to really go all in on keto. And so, I did for the mental performance running on ketosis, running on fat. And it really didn't do it for me. But I had been studying nutrition for a long time, one of the researchers, Dr. Bruce Ames, he talked about these plant phyto toxins. I came across, I think Dr. Steven Gundry, his book came out around that time. And so, I'm reading about lectins, oxalates, various kinds of polyphenols. And I'm like, if I look at my diet, it was lots of vegetables, and like lean meats. So, if it's not the lean meats, maybe let's try getting rid of these vegetables. And as I got rid of them, I knew I couldn't just live on chicken breasts. So, I started eating red meat really, in any significant quantity for the first time. And this is circa 2017, mid 2017. And, I mean, it's kind of like the pulling of these two levers just turn my brain on. I’d not felt like so alive and so good. And so, I started, I had been like, as we were talking about, I've been talking about health and fitness it up to that point for probably a decade. And so, this small following of people, I'm like, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm doing it, here’s research, etc. And basically, just started writing about it and more people started doing it. And I just feel my best this way. Quite as simply as that. And it's been going, what is it now five over five years, so still alive, still kicking, still not dead. Still haven't gotten scurvy. I've done different kinds of quote unquote, carnivore diets during this time, like...
Jack Heald 49:03
Whoa. Stop. Stop just a minute. I think that's a huge point. What Phil just said about scurvy. One or both of you guys, expand on that because there's people, especially folks who are closer to the end of life and the beginning like me, who've heard this scurvy thing forever. So.
Kevin Stock 49:30
Sure. First of all, like meat, fresh meat has vitamin C in it. And I think there's a lot of veracity to the glucose ascorbate antagonism theory, the GAA theory, where basically glucose and vitamin C look very similar molecularly and so they can compete for uptake. And if you're not eating tons of sugar, you don't have high blood sugar, not insulin resistant. I believe probably the needs for dietary vitamin C probably dropped quite significantly. And this is not just for vitamin C, this is for most of our vitamins and minerals, they are context dependent on the rest of the diet and lifestyle and such. So yeah, I think the requirement for actual total Vitamin C is probably less insulin, eating just meat and the meat has vitamin C in it, especially if you're eating organs for there tends to be a fine quantity of vitamin C.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 50:29
Yeah, I certainly agree with that and it turns out, historically, this was known, I mean, the early treatment for scurvy was actually to eat fresh meat and then what happened was, yeah, on these long sea journeys, when we started crossing the oceans, and they only had preserved meat, the sailor...
Jack Heald 50:55
Oh, which doesn't have the vitamin content.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 51:00
Exactly. And then this is now, this kind of misunderstanding come into play. And then when they were establishing the recommended daily allowance of all these vitamins, and this is now 1950s, 1960s, when we were able to measure on all of this, and quite frankly, it appears that they just mis measured the amount of vitamin C and B, it's not clear. Maybe they were using preserved meat or it wasn't fresh meat. And it just, the common thinking became that there was no vitamin C in meat, in muscle meat. But it turns out there is vitamin C in muscle meat. And as Kevin said, if you're not eating a lot of sugar and carbohydrate, you probably don't need a whole lot of vitamin C to sustain yourself. So, we now have many long-term carnivores, people who have been doing it for decades, who haven't gotten scurvy yet. And never will, because you can get enough vitamin C from meat.
Jack Heald 52:08
Could I follow up with the organ meat statement? Because of my relationship with Dr. Ovadia, I've gotten a lot more serious about eating a better diet. By the way, I am three pounds above 200 pounds for the first time. And I don't know how long, checked just this morning. I'm like, woohoo, I haven't seen the backside, I haven't seen the backside at 200 in a long, long time. So, I'm excited about that. But one thing that I went home by had been completely unable to get over is organ meat. And I think what it really is it's just the eeww Factor. You know? Do you guys have a recommendation for somebody like me who has the will, but maybe not the courage to get there? How do you start eating organ meats? What do you do?
Kevin Stock 53:12
As far as well, I think organ meats are great because a lot of them are nutrition powerhouses like beef liver, notorious nutrition powerhouse, but also other organs, heart, spleen, thymus, they have different quantities of nutrients. My point of view is that if you're eating have like a relatively good diet, you don't need to force these foods like I don't think you need to. But if it is just something where it's like more of a mental thing, which I understand, for example, like I had beef tongue the other day, and when you get the beef tongue out, like I get my beef from a farmer, I buy the whole cow. So, I eat the whole thing. So, this tongue, you look at it, it is visually, I'll just say intimidating. But if I were to pull off a few of those outer layers, cook it up and serve it to you and not tell you that it was beef tongue, you would probably enjoy it. It tastes really good. So, I do think there is this mental hurdle. Like if you eat a heart, like it kind of looks like a heart and there's vessels and it can be intimidating. But I do think a lot of it is probably psychological. Some people just don't have a like, don't like it, like livers. Notably, people just don't like it. And I think if someone's eating a good diet, like there's plenty of examples of people not eating these organs that are just thriving on a carnivore diet. I personally, I wouldn't say I love them more than like a steak, but I also don't mind them and so I prefer to just eat the whole animal. I don't like to waste food. So that's kind of my thoughts around it.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 54:46
Yeah, I would agree. I don't think they're necessarily essential for me.
Jack Heald 54:50
Probably you guys are gonna get kicked out of the club for saying that, you know that.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 54:54
There's to, this is one of the battles that goes on in the carnivore community but the best way I find to incorporate them is I get blends of ground beef that have the organs in it. And I think I find that to be tolerable. Beef heart is probably one of the organs that I’ll eat straight up. I actually enjoy that, somewhat ironic, I guess being a heart surgeon. Yeah, a little bit Hannibal Lecter-ish, maybe but, yeah so, I largely agree with what Kevin was saying that they're not essential, but you can always find ways to get them into the diet. I'm sure your Swiss daughter probably has some good, traditional organ recipes by now that she's been living there.
Jack Heald 55:46
Oh, that's a good idea. I should ask her about that.
Kevin Stock 55:48
Yeah. I do think people that are not eating an ideal diet, incorporating organs is probably a good idea, a lot of nutrition. So less important for eating a good diet, more important for eating a bad diet.
Jack Heald 56:03
Okay. All right. One more question. And this actually applies to both of y'all that I want to hear you talk about the details of a carnivore diet. And here's some of the things I've struggled with. And by struggle, I just can't seem to make it work for myself. I love beef. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love beef. Beef. It's wonderful. I love beef. But apparently, I need to expand a little bit. So, chicken, pork, lamb, I love lamb, but I just can't afford to eat lamb all the time. How do you guys make a carnivore diet work from an actual what you eat at a particular meal? My wife will not eat beef every meal. It's just she ain’t gonna do it. So, I'm trying to throw some fish and maybe some chicken and what? How do you make it work?
Kevin Stock 57:24
I think there's a couple of parts to this question. Because one is like how do you make it work in society and life for the family. And then the other part is like, how do I make it work is just like an individual, for me is like an individual. I can eat beef and eggs. I mean, I just I can eat just be all the time every meal. I don't, it doesn't get old to me tastes great; I feel great. If I want some variety, I'll throw in some eggs. This year was the first time I've actually experimented with some dairy and I've seemed to tolerate it just fine. So maybe that's add a little spice to life, I have some dairy. But for me personally, I don't really need variety. I do think a lot of that variety comes from more of like a cultural thing. Like when you're around people even family, for example, my girlfriend she's not going to eat only meat either. So, we do like actually prepare like separate meals. And I know that's not convenient for everyone but that's how we deal with that. And I think it's worth saying that not everyone needs to be like 100% carnivore, most people just need to start eating more meat and less junk and like directionally that's what they need to be doing. Now, I do think some people probably should be pretty darn near carnivore to start healing with their relationship with food, their addictions to healing their metabolic conditions. But again, that's not to say that those people necessarily need to be 100% carnivore. There's, I found there's tends to be two kinds of people, those who are like the type A, I'll say personalities, I'm all in, all or nothing. Okay, that's great. You go 100% carnivore, and then there's the people that like more type B, I need some leniency, I need to be able to have a couple of drinks with friends. I need to be able to have some chocolate after dinner and so maybe they're 90% carnivore and they can find success there. To me, that's like, you're not like breaking the carnivore code or not it's a very viable option to find a solution that works for them.
Jack Heald 59:16
What about you, Phil?
Dr. Philip Ovadia 59:18
Yeah so, I mean, first of all, I totally agree with Kevin that I think for most people, 100% carnivore is not a necessity, I think mostly carnivore is a good starting point. And I've found a lot of variety from just eating meat. I do a lot of seafood, eggs, I think our bar is an essential part of the diet. I think eggs are kind of a superfood and they have very good nutrient profile. So, I incorporate a lot of eggs, a lot of seafood, different types of meat. Although I'm pretty beef heavy, I would say. And the variety thing, again, is a little bit of a, again, if we go back to that evolutionary timescale, we didn't have a lot of variety in our diet for most of our existence. We ate what was around us and what was accessible and that wasn't very varied. So, this is sort of a newer introduction, I think a lot of it is driven by the food industry, by marketing that we need to have this sort of variety and the boring to eat the same thing all the time. For someone like myself, who has a very busy life it's not boring to eat the thing, though, same thing all the time, it's easy to eat the same thing all the time, I don't have to think about it. So, it's, it becomes a very it has made my life easier being a carnivore, I don't have to think about recipes, I'm not planning. Shopping becomes very easy. The rare times that I entered the supermarket it's just a quick lap around the outside. And like, Kevin, I try and get things locally and from the farmers and keep my freezer stocked. And so, it's just a matter of grabbing something out of the fridge or the freezer, throwing it in a pan for a little bit, and you're good to go. So, a lot of it is the mindset that you bring to this.
Kevin Stock 1:01:37
Yep, I agree biggest worry is like pulling the meat out of the freezer and time to thaw it in the refrigerator. That's about the extent of my stress around eating.
Jack Heald 1:01:46
I'll share with you guys a little trick that I have recently learned. My wife apparently needs the leaner meats far more than I do. And we've discovered Costco sells these tilapia filets that are individually flash frozen. And I can take a tilapia fillet out of the freezer, still in the plastic, and throw it in a Suvi feed at 120 degrees. And in an hour, I've got this perfectly cooked from Frozen. I mean with zero effort, well, I gotta take it out and throw it in. And I found that I really liked that. All right, I have one comment, before we close it up. I've been reading, I've just finished reading a book that talks about the world to come from a geopolitical perspective. And I was fascinated to learn that everywhere except America, because of how we grow chickens, chickens are an incredibly energy intensive type of meat that is wildly expensive both to produce and to buy. Because they do it the normal way. Which apparently us Americans don't. The idea that chicken is essentially an economy meat exists only in America. I thought that was fascinating. And I think Phil was the one who suggested that when I complained about how dry chicken meat is to me, he's import some olive oil on it. I've tried that. It makes a huge difference. I love it.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 1:03:41
Yeah. All right. Speaking of something else we've ruined here in the US. Unfortunately.
Jack Heald 1:03:48
Kevin, you have a rather extensive list of things you've got your fingers into, what is your favorite way to interact with the public specifically Dr. Ovadia’s listeners?
Kevin Stock 1:04:03
You know my favorite is it's kind of weird and old school is I write newsletter every week. It goes out Saturday, it's called the Saturday Seven. It goes out Saturday at 7am and I just try to put my best stuff in that and I feel like most people would probably be better off with less social media. So, I'm on all the social media platforms, but I concentrated into a newsletter. That's what I do.
Jack Heald 1:04:25
Okay, tell me here while we're recording how folks get that but we'll also make sure that that information is in the show notes.
Kevin Stock 1:04:34
Sure. It's on my website. It's kevinstock.io. You'll see links there but you can also get it, so I run meat.health is a website and yeah, I think you can sign up there, links to it and from social handles. You'd my social handles KevinStock12 Just about everywhere. So.
Jack Heald 1:04:51
All right, very good. Well, we will make sure all of that is in the show notes. I'm eager to read them The Saturday Seven, that sounds fun.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 1:05:04
It's a great, great newsletter. I look forward to it every Saturday.
Jack Heald 1:05:10
Very cool. All right, Phil. Thanks, man. I just love that I get to meet and talk with these smart people who are making a difference in the world. So, I appreciate you getting Kevin on here. And Kevin. Thanks, man.
Kevin Stock 1:05:26
Well, thank you for having me on. I enjoy chatting.
Dr. Philip Ovadia 1:05:29
Yeah, great having you, Kevin and I look forward to more future discussions.
Kevin Stock 1:05:35
Absolutely.
Jack Heald 1:05:36
All right for Kevin Stock and Dr. Philip Ovadia, I'm Jack Heald. This is the Stay Off My Operating Table podcast. Go to Dr. Ovadia’s website at ifixhearts dot, is it com now, Phil? Yeah, we now own ifixhearts.com And there's a metabolic health quiz there, just gives you a good way to kind of grade yourself on where you are in terms of metabolic health. And of course, you can connect with Dr. Ovadia on Twitter @ifixhearts and just about everywhere that matters at @ifixhearts. And we'll talk to y'all next time.
Jack Heald 1:06:18
America is fat and sick and tired. 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy and at risk of a sudden heart attack. Are you one of them? Go to ifixhearts.co and take Dr. Ovadia's metabolic health quiz. Learn specific steps you can take to reclaim your health reduce your risk of heart attack and stay off Dr. Ovadia's operating table. This has been a production of 38 atoms