In this episode, we meet Dr. Rick Jacoby, a podiatric surgeon and biochemistry expert. He explores the connection between diet and health, focusing on sugar's influence. His explains critical links between genetic disorders, diabetic neuropathy, and nitric oxide's role in nerve function.
Dr. Jacoby explains why sugar is a key factor in modern diseases. He goes deep into the hidden inflammation caused by sugar, often overlooked in common disease diagnoses. From his startling autopsy revelations to the history of medical practices, sugar's role in heart conditions and Alzheimer's becomes clear. It's not just about less sugar; it's about understanding and tackling inflammation at its source.
It's not all gloom and doom though. Offering a ray of hope, Dr. Jacoby discusses human diet evolution and potential stem cell therapies. His work, including his books "Sugar Crush" and the upcoming "How to Get Unglued," provides valuable guidance on navigating sugar's health effects.
Tune in for an engaging episode that might change your view on sugar, health, and living better.
Dr. Jacoby's Book Sugar Crush
Dr. Jacoby's Video Blog
Dr. Jacoby's clinic contact
======================
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
In this episode, we meet Dr. Rick Jacoby, a podiatric surgeon and biochemistry expert. He explores the connection between diet and health, focusing on sugar's influence. His explains critical links between genetic disorders, diabetic neuropathy, and nitric oxide's role in nerve function.
Dr. Jacoby explains why sugar is a key factor in modern diseases. He goes deep into the hidden inflammation caused by sugar, often overlooked in common disease diagnoses. From his startling autopsy revelations to the history of medical practices, sugar's role in heart conditions and Alzheimer's becomes clear. It's not just about less sugar; it's about understanding and tackling inflammation at its source.
It's not all gloom and doom though. Offering a ray of hope, Dr. Jacoby discusses human diet evolution and potential stem cell therapies. His work, including his books "Sugar Crush" and the upcoming "How to Get Unglued," provides valuable guidance on navigating sugar's health effects.
Tune in for an engaging episode that might change your view on sugar, health, and living better.
Dr. Jacoby's Book Sugar Crush
Dr. Jacoby's Video Blog
Dr. Jacoby's clinic contact
======================
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
Welcome back folks. It's the first official recording of 2024, although I realize that we've had. When you hear this will be much later than when we're recording it. It's the stay off my operating table podcast with Dr Philip Ovedia on Jack Heald, and we are joined today by somebody who's a neighbor of mine, Phil. We were just discussing that. I'm in Phoenix. He's about three miles east of me in Scottsdale, Dr Rick Jacoby. So set it up for us.
Speaker 2:Let me just I have a notice on here. It's being recorded. How do I get that off?
Speaker 3:Usually just hit okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Up in the upper right hand corner, upper left hand corner of the screen, it'll show it and that's just it won't be there in the recording.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, okay, no problem.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, yeah, it's very excited to have a Arizona episode I guess going today and you let me crash it from outside of Arizona but excited to have this discussion with Dr Jacoby. Dr Jacoby's authored two books. One is called Sugar Crush and the more recent one is called Unglued with the glue the GUL, as we're talking about, referring to glucose. So his background is in podiatry and very excited to get his perspective on a topic that we talk about often here on the show. So, with that, dr Jacoby, why don't you give our audience a little bit of your background and maybe what led to you writing those two books?
Speaker 2:Well, obviously diabetes is a big issue and unglued yes, you're right, it's a glue. It's a Greek word meaning to adhes, to stick together. It's glued, that's simple. So my background goes back to Philadelphia many years ago and I studied podiatric medicine in Philadelphia, mainly at the Pennsylvania hospital, did some research there in the Ben Franklin Clinic on PKU, which actually is a sugar related disease, by the way, I have no idea what that means.
Speaker 2:So PKU phenylketoure, which is a burst defect, and so Dr Michael Sheff was the director. He was the director and he was from England. He worked with Watson and Crick and then he came to Philadelphia and I worked with him in biochemistry in his laboratory and went to school in Philadelphia podiatric medicine. So he got me started on the bug biochemistry and I fed the rats, I fed them different shells, which basically worked with sugar, when you think about it back then. But he pranced around in the laboratory with his tweed suit smoking Chesterfields and pontificating to me about DNA. It was like, well, okay, I'm just listening watching his lapel burn holes with his Chesterfield. That's really how it all started.
Speaker 2:But I finished my residency in surgery in Philadelphia, came out to Phoenix and I practiced traditional podiatric medicine and surgery and I had the fortune to run into Dr Lee Dallon, who is professor neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins, and he said to me this is amazing. He said why do you, podiatrist, cut the nerve out of the foot? I said, well, that's what we were trained to do. He said, well, I'm going to show you a new novel technique of how to decompress nerves, the lower extremity for diabetic neuropathy.
Speaker 2:So I went down to Johns Hopkins, he taught me that he's written two textbooks, 800 peer reviewed articles on that subject, and I brought that back to Scottsdale where I was practicing about 25 years ago and applied that to diabetic patients that I was treating at the hospital here on our health and, lo and behold, yes, they did restore their sensation. Well, that's a novel idea, but when you really think about it it's so simple. He as you'll recall, dr Phil, that in the 70s plastic surgeons did the nerve releases such as carpal tunnel and ulnar tunnel, which is a very rare disease back then. So plastic surgeons evolved into peripheral nerve surgeons, and that he pursued that for the rest of his life and wrote many, many articles on this subject.
Speaker 2:And, of course, after a couple of years of doing that, I said to him Dr Dillon, I think there's more to your theory. Is, why don't you figure it out? He'd written two textbooks. So I said, well, okay, I'm going to read outside the box. And I got into your field and I was reading the article in the Arctic and circulation journal about 2005.
Speaker 2:And Dr Cook had written an article on the uber marker. Dr Cook is a cardiologist by Trenia's, phd in vascular biology, and he was at Stanford at the time and I texted him. I said I think your theory has something to do with Dr Dillon's theory. And he called me on the phone like two hours later and said come up to Stanford, let's work on it. I did, I use my patients, his molecule, and what we discovered was that that molecule is really the first blockage of the nitric oxide pathway in nerve dysfunction, not only in the leg but everywhere, every nerve for everything. So that was called the uber marker. So that's my background, how I got into writing sugar crush. So kind of an interesting path from plastic surgery to early, two degrees removed from Watson and Crick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, I was a, he was the lab assistant for them, and that was kind of a new idea obviously back then. And we were working on the PKU phenylketoure, which is a genetic disease At least that's what it's called, was called then. I think it's an epigenetic disease, meaning that if you come in contact with the trigger and you carry the alleles, then you're going to express for that particular disease, so for PKU, which is the birth defect. That's, I think, how it worked. So it's the biochemistry sub, the understanding of the nitric oxide pathway. I don't know if you're familiar with BH4, which is a co, co factor in that conversion of arginine to nitric oxide, but that's that's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just so happens that the episode that I think is going to come out just before this one is with Dr Nathan Brian.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no the world's experts on nitric oxide and we did do a deep dive kind of on that and I'm trying to remember if we mentioned BH4 or not, but certainly familiar with it. And PKU is a very interesting disease in, as you said, you know it's traditionally viewed as a genetic disease but you need exposure to the environmental trigger for it and you know, I think, that in a lot of ways can be applied to something like diabetes as well, where you know, the more you expose yourself to the environmental trigger in diabetes of being sugar, primarily processed carbohydrates in general, the worse the expression of the disease becomes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So his Dr Dellens theory didn't really include that but he did make the connection between carpal tunnel and ulnar tunnel of the other arm. So he had a patient back in the 80s and she had diabetes and he fixed her arm and she said to him, why don't you fix my leg? And he said, well, that's a different disease as diabetic polyneuropathy. But he thought about it and went to the laboratory, did some amazing experiments on rats, bound their nerves with silicone bands, cause this what we call double crush, and then excise the tarsal tunnel on. The rats pause and they did not develop neuropathy. So he came to the conclusion that neuropathy in this instance really is a compression neuropathy. So then he went into the biochemistry of the polyol pathway, which causes sorbitol to be brought into the nerve, making it swell, and the malaria reaction, which is protein plus sugar, causes the outer covering of the nerve to shrink. So you have a shrink wrap around the nerve with the nerve inside that swelling. I call that compression, that's what he calls it. And when you release that, really it's a simple fasciotomy. Is what you're doing and you release the pressure. Well, it's hard to visualize, but a surgeon, you're a surgeon and you probably use loops when you're doing your surgery magnification, and I never did that before. And so he brought that concept to me. And soon as you put the loops on, you're looking at the nerve. You say, oh my God, of course that's what it is. And we use in surgery a EMG probe so I can actually see the nerve as I'm cutting off the adhesions and I'm recording the voltage change. As soon as I release that, the voltage goes right up and the motor function is restored, as well as the sensory and the autonomic. So that was an epiphany for me, but at that time we did not know that it affected the autonomic nervous system and that's where the nitric oxide comes into it. Yes, and I know Dr Brian and he's been on my podcast. He brings a little bit of different dimension. He has a way of encapsulating nitric oxide.
Speaker 2:The molecule that I work with with Dr Cook at Stanford was the asymmetric dimethyl arginine, which blocks the nitric oxide pathway. So, yes, all these things that come together to cause nerve compression, lack of blood supply and, of course, functioned distally to where the compression is. The second thing I discovered was that if the median nerve of the wrist and the older nerve of the elbow and the con perennial and the lagnet and the posterior tibial in the trisal tunnel. Then wouldn't all nerves be the same, same biochemistry, same physiology. And I think that sugar compresses, that or at least the non-enzymatic glycolysis does, and I saw in the studies I was doing with Dr Cook, like MS was very prevalent in our subset of patients.
Speaker 2:So I think AOS, ms, all those diseases are compression neuropathies and epigenetically. That's why we have different locations for all these different itases. And now I'm into trying to figure out if we can treat those things with stem cells and we have been very successful with doing that. So that's my new book how to Get Unglued Nitric Oxide, red Light, dilate the Blood Vessel. Fundamentally, all diseases are lack of blood supply, lack of oxygen, lack of nitric oxides. It's all the same, just different locations. At least that's my theory.
Speaker 1:Well, that's consistent with what we've been. I'm a complete layman here. About 48% of what you said I think I understand and I'm probably wrong about that, but what I'm gleaning from this is supporting what I think has been the big message of this show all along is that almost all of the different expressions of disease at least lifestyle diseases that we are seeing in the world today are basically the same thing. They may be different, differently, but I think you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 2:That's my hypothesis. And then I say something like this Can you see what I see? Now, if I'm talking to a neurologist and Dr O, you or Dr Phil, you know what that means because you're in surgery, you're seeing those things you can make a change. If you're talking to a neurologist, first of all they don't see it. And even if they did, what would they do about it? They don't have the skill set to decompress the nerve. So they write for Lyrican, which is fine. It works in a central nervous system and it does block pain, but it doesn't stop the disease process. And that's where we differ. So neurology dominates this disease.
Speaker 2:It's odd that a podiatrist would come up with this theory. But then when you look back with my experience, first with Dr Schaef, then with Dr Dallin, then with Dr Cook, and then I went up to Harvard with Dr Hamloon on lasers this is like 20 years ago and his theory is that lasers red light, infrared, near infrared they dilate the blood vessels because the same wavelength as the endothelium. And so then I thought, okay, if that's true, and nitric oxide, and I just went through all the different imaging things, I could find there's a neurosurgeon in Santa Monica. He has an interesting thought on how to visualize that with MR neurology. And you can see those compressions.
Speaker 2:So can you see what I see? Well, not. Unless you put all those things together Can you see it and you go. Well, that's pretty simple. Somebody's stepping on a nerve, Just release it and function is restored, Doesn't matter what you call it. And then with stem cells, that's a whole other issue. I work with Dr Ritten, who's kind of the father of stem cells, and it's miraculous. I don't know if you want me to lecture here, but I'm hey, what's up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just, it's really interesting and fascinating to kind of add your angle, your aspect to, like I said, the topic that we've been discussing now on this show for many years and that I've been pursuing for many years before that, and when you really start to understand root cause, as you said, you can actually correct the problem and reverse the disease, as opposed to our traditional approaches of just managing the symptoms and kind of putting band-aids on it. Exactly, yeah. So maybe going back to sugar crush a little bit before we get to unglued and the stem cell treatments, I guess maybe let's go back to the basics a little bit, because some of our audience might not be well-versed in diabetic neuropathy, and talk a little bit about, you know, maybe kind of what you were alluding to with the epigenetic component of this why do some diabetics get it while others don't, and how does that? Just talk about, maybe the basic presentation, how diabetic neuropathy kind of presents and what impact it tends to have on people.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, let's define some words and I'm going to take it back to my first autopsy. Do you remember your first autopsy? I think everybody does. That's so startling.
Speaker 1:This is so much fun because we've got two entirely different audiences that listen to this show. We have people like me, who are just laymen, who are interested in metabolic health, and then we've got medical professionals. So for those of us who are not medical professionals, I am really looking forward to hearing about this.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, dr Phil, you're going to relate back to this. So this is Philadelphia, it's wintertime, it's my first autopsy, the County Morgue. Of course they always have to put it in the basement and down the steps I went with that incandescent light, you know it's freezing. You turn a corner and you smell the formaldehyde and I walk up to the table and there's a bunch of white coats around all the medical students and filled up with different medical schools. And I go up to my station at the foot of the bed, I guess, because I'm a pediatricist and the pathologist points at me and says what do you see to me? And I was like what do I see? I see gray. I mean, it was just nothing but gray. She makes this Y incision and she's pointing to the top of the kidney and she says what is it? And I could not verbalize anything. She said, well, what color is it? And I said, well, it's gray. I said, good, you're doing good. And what else do you see? And I said, well, it's a gray blob. And she says, absolutely, that's the cause of death, that is a pheochromocytoma. And I'm like what I just said gray colored blob. So pheochromocolorcytoma, gray colored tumor.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought at that moment I said well, wait a minute, that's just a description. How is that a disease? You're telling me in Latin what I just told you in English, and that was a pretty seminal moment for me. This is how diseases are described and they call them diagnosis. They're not diagnosis, they're observations. So that started me on that kind of thinking. But when you're in school, they don't care what you think, they just regurgitate what you saw, because you're not there to teach them, they're there to teach you. And if you want to get past this thing, you better really hunker down.
Speaker 2:So in my field Morton's neuroma that's an observation, dr Morton, he noticed this small nerve in the interdigital space in the foot and what did he do? He cut out everything. He got out the bone, the legless and the nerve. Well, thank God he wasn't a neurosurgeon, he had taken the head off of the symptom. So that's how we approached disease in the 1800s the guy by the name of Veracau. He looked at the inside of an artery. He said what's this gunk? And he spoke Greek. And he said what's the word for Greek for gunk? It's athro. And what's hardened gunk? Atherosclerosis? That's not a disease, that's an observation. And what is in the gunk. It's cholesterol. But wait a minute. He made an observation.
Speaker 2:I read the original paper, by the way. He said it's inflammation, but he didn't know what the inflammation was. Well, the inflammation is sugar. That's what the gunk sticks to. It's not cholesterol, it causes cardiovascular disease, it's sugar.
Speaker 2:Cholesterol is a signaling molecule and this is stuff I learned up at Stanford from Dr Cook. Because I asked him, I said I'm confused about this cholesterol hypothesis. I really was and I just wanted to be diplomatic. And he said well, you know, and he said it's the line in the blood vessel, as you all know, it's the endothelium and sugar makes it like Velcro words, normally like Teflon these are his words. And when sugar irritates the line in the blood vessel, sends a signal to the liver and cholesterol is released and goes to the area of inflammation. I always use the word spackle, like from a building term, like plaster or wall, because you punched your hands through the wall when you're a teenager, that kind of stuff, and you spackle it over. Every time you have an insult, an injury, you spackle it over. That's plaque, that's atherosclerosis, but it's not cause, it's effect. The cause is sugar, it's our diets. Carbohydrates is the modern diet, so that just, I just kept building on that idea.
Speaker 2:And all these diseases like Alzheimer's that's Dr Alzheimer's. What is he describing? He's describing loss of memory and at autopsy he saw that there were these little tangles and plaques in the brain and the hippocampus. But what is the first symptom of Alzheimer's? Loss of smell. What nerve is that? It's the olfactory nerve. It gets compressed, I think, by this same process. It's insidious, certainly.
Speaker 2:And back to the epigenetics. Why that nerve as opposed to the wrist? Well, I think there's a lot of other factors. Trauma is one of those. But epigenetics, if you have the alleles they're going to express at that particular location, then you get that nerve that's going to be compressed. And then we put a name on it, like Alzheimer's, his name, or Bell Bell's palsy facial nerve. It goes on and on and on. So when you really get exterior to the problem, it's kind of simple it's sugar. But which sugar? It wasn't. So it's high fructose corn syrup, 1974. That's when it all started, this tsunami of Western diseases. So I know it sounds. I try to make it too simple and that's my big criticism, Like, yeah, you make it too simple. Wasn't that what we're supposed to do? I'm not supposed to make it more complicated. I'm not a PhD. That's their job to make it more complicated.
Speaker 3:Well yeah. And you made it simple in the same way, exactly the way that I describe the root cause of heart disease and unfortunately 95%, maybe 99% of the doctors that treat heart disease don't understand that very simple concept that you just described and therefore they're really handcuffed in trying to manage and treat the disease because they don't understand what's causing it in the first place.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:They've. Unfortunately, at this point we're now in an environment where they're actively being misinformed we could say or disinformed about the root cause of the disease and therefore they really have no chance of treating it and managing it well. But, as you said, it turns out that that explains not only heart disease, and this is what was fascinating to me. That you start to get into in unglued is again, dealing with the nerve problem ends up being the same way, essentially, that we deal with the vascular problem and the two go together so well.
Speaker 2:They do and I work with a lot of vascular surgeons and Chris. Your training is different and you're a hands-on profession. You're seeing this stuff. It's much more dramatic and obviously I'm going to have a blocked artery in the heart. You've got to clean it out at that point in time. I work with Dr Dietrich. You know Dr Dietrich Tejizher, Arizona Heart Institute. He was studying under Debakey.
Speaker 1:So he was a friend of mine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was a good friend of mine and he helped me a lot on the physiology of the vascular disease. So people like that helped me. Vascular surgeons just have a much more hands-on approach. So it's easy to talk to a vascular surgeon because they're seeing it, they're doing it, it's real time. They're not sitting behind a desk writing prescriptions. So that's much.
Speaker 2:Of course, medical doctors say well, you just want to cut? Well, I hate to say this. I don't think there's a medication out there that's going to help any of this. It may prolong, it may take symptoms away, but if you have a clogged artery, I think you've got to clean it out, and so that's my approach You've got to fix it. And the other thing that comes up all the time is doctors get accused of not looking at cause. Well, doctors are basically in the pathology repair business. We're not in the health care business, although people think we are. Well, we're not there to sit down and don't eat sugar. The patient comes in with the pathology. I do like to tell them what causes it and try to change that. But really I'm there to fix what was damaged. So that's a two-edged sword there.
Speaker 1:All right. So, on behalf of the non-medical professionals and this is just one of those times when I feel crappy today, thanks to, I guess, whatever the New Year's cold is it's particularly appropriate for me what do we do? How do we change? What can the average listener who's just trying to get healthy or recover from some sort of disease? What's the plan of attack? What's the call to action?
Speaker 2:Help us. The call to action? Yes, and that's a good question, because let's go back to Lucy, our first primate. So I asked that question to Don Johansson. He's the guy anthropologist that discovered Lucy, ironically, 50 years ago 1974, the same year that high fructose corn syrup was introduced into the human genome. So Lucy wasn't our arboreal being, meaning she lived in the trees, and then she got out of the trees, tasted a bug or two like that, got away from her carbohydrate beingness and then she Real quick.
Speaker 1:how old is Lucy? How far back does Lucy go?
Speaker 2:3.2 million years. Ok, thank you. So she started to walk across the savannah At least this is the story from the anthropology point of view and she eventually tasted fat, liked fat, then meat, then cooking. So the morphology of her body changed. So let's go back to gorillas.
Speaker 2:At the same time, they carbohydrate all day long. That takes a. They need an elementary canal about three times longer than our present state, so it takes a long time to digest carbohydrates in that form, complex carbohydrates. So as she started to eat fat and meat, then the digestive tract got shorter and shorter and lifted her hands off the ground. Then she was bipedal, plant-a-grade motion, and then her frontal lobe got larger and she was able to make tools. She was eating a high carnivore diet, basically, and that's what made her human. So, but we love sugar. So go back to the Egyptian times, when they started civilizations. Then they started eating carbohydrates again. And if you look back in the mummies, there's a lot of good studies done and I was surprised how many people are mummified. It wasn't just the upper class, it was everybody. And when they do CT scans on those mummies, those hearts are clogged up. They were eating four to five loaves of bread a day back then. That probably is how they lost their civilization. The cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 1:So as we, there's a sound bite, huh Phil, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we. If you look at all the different societies since that time, the king was always overweight. Why? Because he told his underlings climb up that tree and get me some honey. Well, that's dangerous, yeah, but I'm the king, I want that honey. Of course he was overweight, but the poor weren't. So Columbus, when he Actually, he came to America because he was looking for sugar, one of the spices from Persia, and he went to the king or Queen Isabella in Ferdinand and said I got a deal for you. I have the maps from the Portuguese and they found the West Indies and they planted sugar. Sugar was a very expensive commodity, england, $1,600,000 a pound. First physician they weren't physicians and they were just. They'd probably be arrested today. They used to dissect people when they were on the gallows and that was Thomas Willis. Remember that, dr Bill, dr Willis, the first neurologist circle of Willis in your field and the circulation of the brain.
Speaker 3:That was amazing how it all comes together.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what they did in those days? They would buy the guy a suit. He was probably. He stole a loaf of bread and went to the gallows. That's where that term he's off the wagon came from, because he had the right to stop at any tavern on the way to the gallows, so that's where that term came from. He's off the wagon to get a drink. So Thomas Willis bought him a suit. When he died they took him, got rights to the body, took him to their home, dissected him. That dissection of Circle of Willis was done by Christopher Wren, his friend who is the architect in London. Christopher Wren did this dissection, thomas Willis did, but Christopher Wren did the sketches as he did the sketchbook.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was a little better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's still in. That sketch is still on Gray's Anatomy. No one's been able to do it better. So there are observations good ones, and they're looking for cause of death. Well, obviously, if you're hung, that's the cause of death, but that's where the anatomy started.
Speaker 2:Then 1600s, of course, who had these diseases? It was the rich, because they love sugar, just like cocaine, and it has same effect. So they had the physicians and they started describing the diseases and that's why we had that style of the nomenclature from description. And here we are today doing the same thing. But in my new book I'm glued. I say it really doesn't matter how you got your sugar and what scarring. Oh, by the way, I asked Dr Dillon this first question when I first met him. I said Dr Dillon, is this disease anitis or anosis? And he said to me it's both, and that's seminal as well. So sugar causes the inflammation the body heals by fibrosis, scarring, and it's that simple. Stem cells do the same thing. They arrest inflammation and they dissolve scar tissue. So stem cells can be used in any disease and they will reverse it.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a quick little story. I'm down in Panama at Dr Ritten's clinic and he treats mainly MS and autistic kids. Autism, I think, is the hypoglossal nerve, but we'll get into that for a second here. And I'm there with him for a week and I'm looking at patients and I was in the cafeteria and there was kids from all over the place, from India, africa, south America, america, but they all kind of looked the same. They had the same eating habits, they love sugar.
Speaker 2:And I went up to this one woman and she had a son, maybe just 12 years old, and I said is this your first time here? And she said no, it's the third time. I said why is that? She said well, get the IV infusion of Wharton's jelly, cultured cells of the umbilical cord. He starts to speak. I don't know why I said this. I said what did he say? And he said I want a donut. And I said well then, what happens? Well then it wears off about a year and then she comes back and gets another treatment. That, to me, is the example. This is caused by inflammation of sugar, of the hypoglossal nerve, and when you use stem cells it dissolves that and arrests the inflammation and resolves some of the scar tissue.
Speaker 1:Real quick, real quick, because again I'm the layman here. How is stem cell therapy? What's the mechanism here? You just hook up to an IV. Is it location specific? Good questions, very big on what you're treating.
Speaker 2:It is based on what you're treating. Let's say you could root of entry. It could be IV, which he got. It can be intratheco inside the spine, it can be intranasal or it can be localized injections or all the above, depending what the disease. Now, most of the inflammatory diseases, when you do the IV it goes to the heart and lung first. It's very effective for all those type of problems.
Speaker 2:Now if you have brain issues, you got to get across the blood brain barrier. You can do that with intranasal spray. Now there's a neurosurgeon in California I forget his name up the top of my head at the moment, but he puts a port in the brain, in the ventricles, and he uses stem cells that way for things like Parkinson and those inflammatory brain diseases. Yeah, so why would you use the same stem cells to treat all these different diseases? Now I'll give you another example Joanne Kertzberg. She's pretty famous in this world. She's at Duke and she was giving a lecture in about eight years ago at the Peri-Natal Stem Cell Society meeting and she uses I'm not just jelly, but she uses hemopoietic fraction of that.
Speaker 1:So she's at a hospital.
Speaker 2:English please, english please. So let's take the umbilical cord Okay, that's a artery, nerve and vein into some extent a lymphatic system. So when that supportive tissue which is called Warton's jelly, and she uses some of the blood components, most people outside of university setting would not use the blood components because of the antibody and the gene reaction. But the Warton's jelly does not have that because it's immunologically neutral, because it would be a foreign body between the mother and the fetus, so it doesn't react. So she did an experiment showing gene arrays before and after, plus films treating muscular dystrophy and autism with the same dose.
Speaker 2:And I went up to her afterwards and I said, dr Kertzberg, first of all this is not a genetic disease, because if it's genetic, in my mind it's immutable, it's not changeable. But if it epigenetics, it is. And you just proved that it is because these kids were talking after the autistic kids after the injection. Wow, jerry's kids, muscular dystrophy were walking after they had braces on. And so that is to me a seminal epiphany. For me, first of all, they're not different diseases. They came in the same dose, the same thing. Now we call them different diseases, but they're epigenetic. So I guess the big question is. Why does the population not know this? I have a document, 2003, chaired by John McCain non-embryonic stem cells 17 scientists she was one of them Senators comments on diseases I never heard of, like Crab A's disease. Dr O, do you ever hear of that disease?
Speaker 3:I've heard of it, but I have to dig deep into memory banks too. I remember what it is. It's some biochemical issues.
Speaker 2:It's a metabolic disease and basically one teaspoon of sugar and the kid's dead. She gave yeah, and the senators asked her what happened. She did one twin and didn't do the other two, and the one she gave the stem cells to is still alive. The senator said this is a miracle. Well, it is a miracle. It's a miracle that that was in 2003. It was 21 years ago Now. If you had an autistic kid, you think you'd be a little pissed. You think you think this is a natural disgrace. So now I realize we need lots and lots of research. But I think, as a sovereign human being, if this stuff works like it does and it does and it's safe and it's effective, you should have the right to do that. Why should you wait around for double blind study? That's just outrageous.
Speaker 3:So talk a little bit. You know how you see this balance between you know our efforts at prevention versus treatment. So you know we know that sugar, you know, is at the root of this, so to speak. And so you know the example that you gave about the mom in Mexico and she's bringing the kid back every year, you know, to get the treatments. And the first thing he asked for, you know, after he gets the treatments, is the donuts. And my presumption is he's getting the donuts and that's why he has to keep coming back every year for the treatment. And you would look at that and say, well, if he just doesn't have the donuts in the first place, you know, maybe this can be cured or last longer. So you know, and when you're talking about, you know, things like peripheral neuropathy and we're talking about doing stem cell treatment versus, well, maybe if you just stop eating the sugar in the first place, the disease gets better on its own some as well and so how do you see that balance there?
Speaker 2:Well, that's the quintessential question. Now, if it's a kid, obviously you've got to get them off the sugar. Not an easy thing to do. So that's education. But you know, we have the USDA with their pyramid, all that carbohydrates on the bottom, whether it's eating pizza, donuts, drinking soda, that's their diet and it's causing, it's ruining the American population or actually the whole Western world. So education number one.
Speaker 2:And we get back to the cholesterol hypothesis. You know, I hear this every day. Patients come in. I said, you know, they could usually come to me for diabetic neuropathy and I say how's your diet? They always, they always lean in. I know it's like a secret.
Speaker 2:It says I don't eat red meat, as if. Well, why are you here If you're not eating red meat? If that's bad, then why are you here? It's really the other way around. You should be eating red meat because we're carnivores. Not, we're not carbohydrate eating people. We love carbohydrates, but if you want to be healthy, I say, then go completely carnivore for 30 days. See what happens. Well, you lose weight, symptoms go away, and well, that's not hard. That's hard to do. Of course it is, but that's why you had the disease. Now, once it gets fibrosed in the latter stages. Yeah, I think you do need the surgery and that's the delinquent decompression that I do for legs. So in the beginning if they have small fiber neuropathy like fibromyalgia type symptoms, I just change their diet. I also think that B vitamins to help that nitric oxide pathway, bh4, that's very important.
Speaker 1:Red light therapy is good because that red light therapy is just being outside in the sunshine. Does that give you the same bandwidth that we're talking about?
Speaker 2:Well, it gives you all the bandwidth. Well, I really like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah specific red light therapy. Yes, you live someplace where, like you know, you got 300 days of sunshine a year, like we do?
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, we got four days of sunshine, don't we? I think so. So, but here's the problem in living in Arizona in the summertime you don't want to go out in the sun, it's too goddamn hot. So, but let's take, you know, a temperate climate. So in the morning, the early morning sun is in the red spectrum, right, that's the infrared. So you're getting that. It turns on the pineal gland through the eye, splits the beam, and then we get serotonin. And then when the blue light comes on I'm sorry, we get serotonin. Then when the red light comes on at night, then that serotonin is methylated, which is melatonin, and that helps us this sleep cycle. So that is so.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to develop, in unglued, a concept of the urban carnivore. What would Lucy do when she lived in a city like Phoenix? She's got to go to the store to buy food. She's got to go outside to exercise, but she's basically inside on a computer, like all of us are doing. So we got to get that red light, we got to get the blue light. We need the vitamin B vitamins, we need exercise. My big thing now in Phoenix is pickleball, because that is a.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you a little anecdote, because you're from Phoenix. This is years ago. My kid was about six years old. I'm in the gym and he's got a Phillies baseball hat on. And this guy says to me in the gym could you help me fix or show me how to use this leg press machine? So I do. And he had legs like tree trunks and I said to him have you never used weights before? He said no, I just sprint. And then he sees my kid and he calls him over and he says give me that hat. And he writes in the room of the hat it was Ricky Henderson. Oh, good Lord, yeah, the Stolen Base, king of the world.
Speaker 2:And I said what do you do? He said I sprint, I sprint, that's all I do. And I've read some papers recently. They're really good papers. So sprinting, it makes sense. When you think about back to Lucy, lucy sprinted, she didn't run marathons. If you can sprint 40 yards, you catch your prey. If you can't sprint fast enough, you are the prey. You are the prey, and it's that simple. So we as humans don't go out and sprint, but we can play pickleball, which in a sense is like sprinting. And so there's cytokines and growth factors that are built up in your leg muscles that translate to your whole body. If you look at sprinters Olympic sprinters these guys are ripped.
Speaker 1:Oh, they're always just. I remember watching the Olympics as young as like 1972. And just thinking why are these guys? These were huge men. Yes, I remember thinking how can somebody so big be so fast? And over the years I began to realize it is that kind of muscle that makes them fast.
Speaker 2:So, yes, and so our DNA genome. They know that that's imprinted, that's the survival technique and when you run sprint, then you, your upper body muscles, follow, because the growth factors are raised. But if you run you'll notice long distance runners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, completely different morphology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they look like they're going to die, then probably that just not the right exercise for humans. So Ricky Henderson proved that to me. And so my kid went to this funny story because when he was in high school he was a all state football player here in Arizona. It's Chaperrill, and I had a patient, george L Trance. He was the MVP in the arena football league and he said what's your kid doing? And he said would you work out with him? He says sure. So we went out to work out. I'm looking for the weights. Oh no, no weights, we sprint. I said really Same thing. He knew Ricky Henderson knows they sprint and you look at athletes they meet, they sprint and they're ripped and they're healthy. Who? So that's part of my formula To get healthy, you do all those things red light, vitamins, sunshine, and if all else fails and you're 60, 70, like me, I'll tell you, nine years ago, herniated L4-5, severe pain, herniated disc.
Speaker 2:You know the whole story. Dr O and I hung upside down. You know epidurals, you know the whole routine and neurosurgeon in my building. He said, well, we'll schedule you for surgery. I said why don't we do stem cells? He said well, there's not enough research. So I went upstairs his office downstairs for me and I had a freezer full of this stuff and I said one of the other doctors who never gave an injection? I said I'm gonna mark the spots on my back Now. I didn't do intrathecal, I did SI joint, I did the peer. Performance is really painful. So he injected me. I was back playing tennis in three days. That was nine years ago. It works and I do all those things. So I play pickleball, I take B vitamins, try to get sunshine every day and I did today. It was cold, it was for the audience around the world. Back in your area of the world. It barely got up to 60 today.
Speaker 1:It was intolerable.
Speaker 2:It was intolerable, you're absolutely right, and yeah, so we're really enduring a severe winter storm. It was yeah, and we can't wait till it gets up to 75, which it will, I think, in a week. But so I'm kind of trying to develop this. What would Lucy do? How would you navigate the urban environment and become that urban carnivore? I know I throw a lot of stuff at you guys today, but almost-.
Speaker 1:You haven't actually thrown us anything new other than what? The stem cell stuff, phil? I think by and large we've heard most of us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and like I talked about, it's really from your perspective, from the diseases, from the disease manifestation. Let's say, after this talk, the epigenetic expressions that you see, as opposed to the epigenetic expressions that I see. But it really all brings us back to the same place, which is great to hear. So when is unglued coming out? It's not released as of yet, correct, it's at the publishers.
Speaker 2:as we speak, they're doing the artwork and the final audits and stuff like that, but probably next, maybe a month should be out Excellent, and in the meantime sugar crush people can find in all the usual spots.
Speaker 3:Let people know how they can get in touch with you.
Speaker 2:Several different websites, but one I'm doing is DR Jacoby, small, dr Jacoby, dr Jacobyacademy, and I teach all this sort of thing, so that's probably the best place to get a hold of me. And so my whole day is if I can do a fixed diabetic neuropathy without surgery, although I still do the decompressions, but it's amazing, I don't do that many anymore because I do all these other things and it seems like the symptoms go away and the feeling comes back and the ulcers go away as well and we don't have any amputations. It's just a different approach to the same problem and it's sugar and it's high-fructose corn syrup and it's genetically modified corn, by the way, I think glyphosate, and it's fixable, totally fixable.
Speaker 1:I love it. This is yeah. Well, you know what I did. Have another question Stem cells.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, laymen explain what stem cells are.
Speaker 2:Well, start with the Spanish word cellulose madres, the mother cell, the primal cell. Now it gets a little deep, but let's break it up. There's embryonic meaning from a fetus. No, that's illegal in the United States, ethical and some medical issues. You don't wanna use that. You wanna use non-embryonic stem cells, adult stem cells. So when the newborn is born, the afterbirth, that's called the perinatal tissue. So the placenta, amniotic fluid. Now the government says that stuff is a drug. Now they just classified Lucy as a drug dealer, I guess. So you cannot use that unless you're in a 351 study Umbilical cord. The Wharton's jelly is in a 361, and you can use that if it's homologous use meaning. Is it like for light, like for the carpal tunnel, which is similar to the umbilical cord? So we can use it for those instances.
Speaker 1:Then there's another class of Wharton is W-H-A-R-T-O-N-S.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's another guy from the 1600s. He got his name on that. I don't know why he was playing with the jelly, but that's probably another story. And then we have another classification. We have octologous, meaning your own cells. You can use fat derived, you can use bone derived and take bone marrow, and I do use bone marrow or aspirate if I'm in surgery. But if you're over 50, 90% of the stem cells are gone by then. So why would you want to use old stem cells when you can use perinatal cells? So that's the two classifications. You can use somebody else's, which are called allogenic, the newborn, the adult cells from the newborn, because once the umbilical cord is cut, then they're considered adult stem cells. I don't know why they do that, but that's how the classification goes. So I mean, it's that simple. They're safe, they're effective, but most of this needs to go under FDA rules. So the only thing you really could use is your own cells or Warton's jelly. They're the two things you can do, and I didn't mention exosomes as a whole.
Speaker 2:Other discussion, that's the nanoparticles of these mesenchymal stem cells. But, dr O, you would know these I don't really think they're stem cells. My vernacular, I think they're periocytes, they're very elemental vascular tissue. They're a little like amoeba-like creatures that are on top of a blood vessel, the nerves precedes it, looking for the void where the nutrient needs to go. The periocytes secrete things like VEGF vascular endothelial growth factor and they develop new blood vessels to the area that needs new blood vessels. This is a vascular disease and it's that simple Wow, all right.
Speaker 1:Once again, phil, you've managed to land somebody on the show. That, I think, is absolutely fascinating. I want to just keep going on and on and on, but I guess we'll call it a day, any last words.
Speaker 3:Well it's a great conversation, yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna speak on this at the Vasculator Symposium, the Congress for Vascular Surgeons, in Scottsdale in February I think it's around February 16th at the ChemoBac in, so vascular surgeons from all over the world be coming to that.
Speaker 1:Now I've spoken at that. How do I get an invitation to that?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll walk you over there. Just walk down the street and we'll go to that's right down the street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a chemo Literally right down the street from me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, contact me afterwards and I'll get you over there and take a look at that, because Dr Ramayas is running that. He calls me the copilot of this symposium. So I represent the podiatry portion of it and gangrene and all that sort of thing, and his is the cardiovascular stuff Outstanding. Yeah, it should be good, me, excellent. It should warm up. By then February. We should be up to 75. Oh, it'll be spectacular, spectacular yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And I might walk. Yeah, I think you could. Yeah, you could. Yeah, it's exciting to live in Scottsdale, for sure, and we've got so many great people here and the weather's nice, except for today, 60 degrees. Oh, we're right in the eye of the storm. Oh, the humanity. Well, I really enjoyed this and I appreciate you having me on, I know maybe it's kind of a, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of a shame, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Maybe it's kind of a out there subject, but when you really get exterior to the problem, it's pretty simple.
Speaker 1:This is fantastic. You know, most kind of the history of science is the real breakthroughs so often occur from the people who are outside the specialties, just because they look at it from a different point of view.
Speaker 3:So I dig it, yeah. Yeah, we certainly love outside the box thinking and outside the box approaches to fixing these chronic diseases of modernity that we're up against.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. So, Dr Richard Jacoby, the book is Sugar Crush and the one that's coming up is how to come unglued, how to get unglued.
Speaker 2:How to get unglued. I think you'll come unglued when you find out this real simple solution how to get unglued. You're going to be really unglued when you hear about it. Well, hey guys, thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thank you. We'll make sure all the contact information shows up in the show notes and we will talk to you all.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bye, bye.