John Jaquish is a visionary biomedical engineer. His inventions are revolutionizing the way we think about muscle hypertrophy and disrupted the conventional beliefs about muscular strength and bone health.
He’s an outside the box thinker whose story demonstrates that unconventional thinking is not enough for success. You gotta have determination and perseverance if you have any hope that your innovations will ever see the light of day.
From pursuing his PhD to developing osteogenic loading devices, he has confronted and overcome the skepticism of his colleagues, of academic gatekeepers and even fellow strength and conditioning experts.
His research into osteogenic loading led directly to the development of X3, an exercise system that overcomes the limitations inherent in traditional resistance training systems.
Whether you agree or disagree with his conclusions, you will definitely be entertained.
—————
Connect with John Jaquish
Instagram: @drjaquish
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drjaquish/
Website: DoctorJ.com
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
John Jaquish is a visionary biomedical engineer. His inventions are revolutionizing the way we think about muscle hypertrophy and disrupted the conventional beliefs about muscular strength and bone health.
He’s an outside the box thinker whose story demonstrates that unconventional thinking is not enough for success. You gotta have determination and perseverance if you have any hope that your innovations will ever see the light of day.
From pursuing his PhD to developing osteogenic loading devices, he has confronted and overcome the skepticism of his colleagues, of academic gatekeepers and even fellow strength and conditioning experts.
His research into osteogenic loading led directly to the development of X3, an exercise system that overcomes the limitations inherent in traditional resistance training systems.
Whether you agree or disagree with his conclusions, you will definitely be entertained.
—————
Connect with John Jaquish
Instagram: @drjaquish
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drjaquish/
Website: DoctorJ.com
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
Hey folks, as you know, it's the staff, my operating table podcast with Dr Phillip Ovedia, and we've got a muscle head here with us today. I love it when we have these guys, frankly, because I feel like I'm probably more amongst my people, even though nobody would ever accuse me of being one of those, but I didn't go to medical school, so it's nice to have somebody who's over on my side of the fence. Here's our guests, phil our guest.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Sure thing, we got, I think, what is probably one of the most intelligent muscle heads, I think, out there and really at the forefront.
John Jaquish:I'm going to say I don't think Jack realizes I have a PhD in biomedical engineering.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Exactly, we got Dr John. I knew it was a PhD, but it's not an MD, so you know I just have better handwriting, exactly.
Jack Heald:It won't let you in med school, if you can read your handwriting right.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:And just hasn't been brainwashed in the same way that most MDs have these days. So I'm really excited to have Dr Jay Quichon. John's book you know weightlifting isa waste of time, I think is a real eye-opening read for anyone that's not familiar with it and his scientific approach to muscle building really excited to get into today. But before we do that, dr Jay Quich, why don't you give a little bit of your background to our audience and maybe explain how you got so interested in the science of building muscle?
John Jaquish:Sure, it actually had nothing to do with muscle. It started about 15 years ago when my mother was diagnosed with osteoporosis. She was very upset. I was in the middle of getting my MBA at the time, so I wasn't medical focused at all, and so she was very upset and she told me about the side effects of the medications that are typically prescribed for osteoporosis. And you know, she read them out loud and I was like, yeah, I wouldn't want to take those drugs either, but she's like I'm worried about a fragility fracture. And I was like, let me just read about this, because this might not be the only option.
John Jaquish:And I also just intuitively thought osteoporosis is a lack of mechanical loading on bone. I knew that already. So why would we be solving a mechanical problem with a chemical solution? Why would it not be a mechanical solution to a mechanical problem? And so it was like well, okay, exercise, why does exercise not do what really doesn't do anything for bone density?
John Jaquish:And the reason is the minimum dose of force required in the hip joint, which is the joint that counts when looking at your mortality. It's the minimum dose is a 4.2 multiples of body weight to trigger any bone growth at all. Well, I happen to know the guy that holds the world record in the squat and he, even he, when breaking the world record, does not exceed 4.2 multiples body weight. He weighs 300 pounds in his squat is 1200 pounds. So that's four multiples, not 4.2. So so, like when somebody says, well, there's no way I'll get osteoporosis, I work out. It's just like all right, you're just not informed, it's not the proper level of force that that's required and you're not going to get that through strength training. So where do you get it? Well, you get it through high impact. So, like gymnasts, when they do a dismount from the uneven bars, they'll get 10 times their body weight. So high impact gives us incredible forces, way beyond what we get with weightlifting.
John Jaquish:It's just delivered in a different way and it's high risk. So gymnasts have the highest bone density, but they also retire at an average age of 19 because of injuries. So what is creating the greater bone density also creates fractures. So what I? To me it was like, okay, all I need to do is solve just it's an engineering problem. How do I get the benefit of high impact, get the forces associated with high impact through the bone, without doing actual impact or at least lowering the risk of exposing bone mass to this type of force? So we just isolated the positions that I said we was really to me at the time, but I did grow a big company out of this.
John Jaquish:So we took fixtures where we put people in an optimized position, so like 120 degree angle from upper to lower arm and then back of the hand in line with the clavicle. That's for, like, the upper body. That's where you're either going to absorb or produce the greatest amount of force. And so there's four other positions in the body where we naturally absorb high impact force a word of trip and fall or just have to basically brace for impact. So isolated those positions and allowed people to self create force. But the only movement was from the compression of your actual bone mass.
John Jaquish:So the machines were just like. They're controlled by robot, robotic arms to get in the right spot. Because you want everybody to have a very repeatable process, so you eliminate the positioning variables and so the load exposure is the same every time. So I made it robotic and standardized. Somebody walks in and the devices all move in accordance to what the person's biomechanics are, and this is what you see when you walk into an osteostrong location. So that's the bone density treatment, and so once we made it repeatable by adding the robotics, people could expose tremendous forces. So we had a clinical trial. The first clinical trial was in London University of East London it was where the principal investigator came from and then the rest of the researchers were physicians at the Stratford Village Surgery, which is in East London, and so they ran through 40 people, all postmenopausal, all either free osteoporosis what's called osteopenia or fully osteoporotic.
John Jaquish:All of these individuals grew a huge amount of bone mass density and completely reversed their condition and what blew my mind was when the researchers would say to me these people are holding six, seven, eight, nine times their body weight, but what do people use in a gym? And it's like OK, so I know the gym, the forces in a gym are inadequate for bone, but what really are the differences? So I looked at the NANES database. For those that are listening that don't know what the NANES database is, it's a database that is compiled and maintained by the National Institute of Health and what they're trying to do is just track health and fitness metrics. They add 2,000 people every year to this and there's a huge battery attest. So body fat, blood draws, lipids, every single metric for 2,000 people, including gym data, their workout data, and it turns out that beginners in exercise are typically using 1.3 times their body weight to train their lower extremities and, of course, the lower extremities, the hip joint. This is what counts when it comes to osteoporotic fractures, because those are the ones that are associated with mortality. So beginners 1.3, advanced athletes 1.53, which is a long way from 4.2. Whereas the people who were using the osteosteostron ultimately ended up becoming called osteostron and now we have 300 clinics in 15 different countries for this those people were using over seven times their body weight. So they were way past the minimum threshold for triggering bone growth and it worked incredibly well and so that business is growing and it's very exciting. It's all over the world.
John Jaquish:And then I spent a couple years just sort of traveling and lecturing, went to the World Congress on Osteoporosis a number of times and presented some of the early data. They called it preliminary data, which I was like it's not preliminary, like come on, but very high standards when it comes to osteoporosis and data, because they're accustomed to looking at pharmaceutical trials which might have 100,000 participants. Well, when you're testing a physical medicine intervention, that is, its basis is on the principles of what is taught are the basics of bone metabolism, like compressive force at the proper level will cause the bone to retain and assimilate minerals, like you learn this day one of medical school. So every time they would say, well, there's really not enough data on it and I'm like all data on bone is data that proves this works, all of it, like every single study. So we're still doing larger trials, but it's hard to compete with pharma type studies and this is how I think this part of the problem, why physical medicine interventions have kind of disappeared, like we only have pharmaceutical interventions now, because basically from an exercise science perspective, exercise scientists can't pull together the same size data samples, the same size studies that pharmaceutical companies can, because there's no profit margin there. So that was a challenge. Now I managed to really get by that challenge and show enough physicians enough data where they at the very least they would say I'll send a few patients over and see how they do, and every time that happened like absolutely incredible results. So then they send all their patients who have osteopenia or osteoporosis. So that was really the start.
John Jaquish:And then the second thing was like wow, if humans are capable of so much, creating so much force in that impact ready range of motion, like if I'm seven times stronger here than I am here and I wrote the study, I proved it to myself and everybody else so oh, wow, like that really means weightlifting sucks as far as triggering muscle to respond. In fact, there's a new sort of area of research that just talks about using weak range partials or what's called lengthened partials. I don't know if you guys have paid any attention. It's like the last six months A lot of research has come out on regular weightlifting and just working the stretched sort of portion. So you know short repetitions really focusing on the stretch portion. Anybody who's a student of variable resistance will go.
John Jaquish:Yeah right, that's painfully obvious because that's the only place that you're actually doing any work. When you pick up a weight let's say it's a chest press it's difficult. From here to here it's easy going the rest of the range of motion because you're so much stronger out here. So it really just isn't work. And so, yeah, like obviously okay. So you concentrated on the hard part. What if we changed the weight as we moved so that it was relevant in all positions? So, and that brought me to my second invention, which is X3. So massive variable resistance, very high ratio, so super heavy at the top of the movement and sort of a normal weight at the bottom.
Jack Heald:I'm thinking about. You're approaching a macro health problem from a different angle, talking about bone density rather than muscle growth. I'm going to ask a what's a medically ignorant question Does this grow muscle as well?
John Jaquish:The bone density device. Yeah, no, it will teach you how to recruit more muscle, which can help you grow muscle if you're training muscle. So, and there's some arguments that there might be some myofibril growth, so some just muscle protein synthesis with no sort of extra storage of ATP, glycogen or creatine phosphate, which is sort of the other kind of muscle growth. That's what's called sarcoplasmic muscle growth. So none of that. But yeah, you can produce more force, but, like I said, it's more neurological than anything. So osteosteosteoesteroids really focused on bone. X3 was sort of the same version, like there was a version of the similar logic but really focusing on what muscle needs to grow.
Jack Heald:The most Does this X3, and it's kind of funny that when I found out it was you that we were having on the show gosh three. Four years ago, phil and I met in a men's group and the story of the X3 kind of circled underground in the group. I was like, oh, x3 guy, does the X3 work have the same effect on bone?
John Jaquish:Clearly you can build a muscle that way, but does it have?
Jack Heald:the same effect on bone.
John Jaquish:No, the weight isn't high enough. Like what, the weight you use to train bone is ridiculously high, Like my upper extremities. When I'm compressing my upper extremities in an osteoesteroid device, I'll put 2,000 pounds through my arms, whereas I'm not trying to bench press 2,000 pounds Right right Right. So very.
Jack Heald:When I was being taught to squat. One of the things I remember being told was first time I put a lot more weight on the bar than I'd ever imagined squatting. My son was training me. He said just stand up, you don't have to squat it, just stand up under the bar and get used to the feel. I remember there was this I don't know how to describe the feeling, but I know you're probably familiar with it All of a sudden I had on my back significantly more weight than I'd ever imagined I could hold. I made no attempt to squat it, I just simply stood there with a whole lot more weight on my back than I'd ever imagined I could. Is that? Of course, that's not four times my body weight. I was going to ask am I building bone by doing that? But, if I understand you, no, we're not.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:No. So I guess, with that being said, how do any of us avoid osteoporosis? Ultimately, no one's really putting those forces on their bones.
John Jaquish:Two ways either finding us to your strong location or high impacts like jumping off of stuff. You know how people. They hop up onto a box and then step down. You've seen people do like box jump training. Yeah yeah, they should be doing the opposite. They should be jumping off of the box and stepping back up onto it. Okay, yeah. Yeah, now there's more risk associated with high impact, obviously. Yeah, sort of people turn like 25 and it's like, oh, you should do low impact, excellent. I mean everybody acts like they should be bubble wrapped.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Now you know everyone's assistant.
John Jaquish:I mean, that's the shame. But you know, like if you are fully ambulatory and not in any sort of chronic pain, getting good at landing and getting force absorbed through the bone mass. In fact, there was an iPhone app that where you could just enter. You can log in, you enter your body weight and you hold your phone on your thigh and you jump and land and it'll tell you how many multiples body weight you're capable of creating. Now I built it as a tool to show people that, no matter what they're doing, they're not even getting close. But then I let some marginally athletic people use it and they could do it. They could definitely, you know, especially if they were standing on something like a park bench two feet off the ground. Yeah, like you're getting it. So I'm in the middle of a redesign on the app, but it's called fracture proof. It'll probably be out in a couple months again, great.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:So I wanted to go back just a little bit. You know earlier, when we were talking about bone and you said you know kind of day one in medical school you learn about the importance of these mechanical forces to help bone recruit the minerals. And I think you're giving maybe a little too much credit to medical schools because I certainly don't remember learning that. You know what I learned about bone and osteoporosis prevention was take your calcium and maybe there was a little mention of vitamin D. And you know along the way I've now learned you know that actually the majority of bone, or the biggest portion of bone, is actually protein and how important protein is to bone. You know bone.
John Jaquish:So also the idea that you take calcium and you grow bone would be as stupid as saying I'm just going to eat extra protein and not work out and I'll grow all the muscle because all you need is protein. Right. Right, so nobody would say that but then we have these just completely ignorant physicians saying, oh, just take calcium, that's all you need really. So building block with no stimulus, I won't do anything. In fact, it'll give you kidney stones.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, and calcification in your arteries of your heart, by the way too.
John Jaquish:Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Then you have cardiac problems.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, just very interesting. So you know we always like to kind of go behind the thought process here. So why was it? Do you think that you were able to figure this out when you know, kind of no one else had?
John Jaquish:That's a good question. I got a good answer for it, my PhD advisor told me. So I invented the device and then I went to do my PhD. It's part of the reason I went to Rushmore University. They were the only ones that were willing to let me fund my own dissertation project. Because I went to universities and I was like okay, like I could give you guys a grant, a research grant, and then you do a research project that I, you know sort of loosely designed, create the method section for, and then you'll get a PhD student to make it either a project or a dissertation project. Right, no problem. And I had some good friends that were professors at the time at Berkeley. And then I'm like okay, so you match my project up with like a random student. That's usually how it works. And they're like, yeah, you have to approve of the student, but you know, generally there's a meeting here and there.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Okay what if I want?
John Jaquish:to be the student and they were like, oh no can't do that why? What's the difference? They're like, and you know I mean they like, wow, they're like, because they're not administrators. So they're just saying you know, like how it is, and they're like you know what. It's just never been done Like, it's just unorthodox. And you know, you don't ever ask a university for permission because the answer will always be no, because I mean, they just don't want to upset anything.
John Jaquish:They're bureaucrats. Yeah, they show up. They show up at you know the price, supposed to show up at eight, but they show up at nine. And then they're supposed to leave at five and they leave at four. As long as they don't. You know, you're a bureaucrat like, as long as you don't rape anybody at work, you're probably never going to be fired. So you know they're just going through. I had the same Myers-Briggs personality as Donald Trump.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:So I just, I just said how it is.
John Jaquish:I'm better on Twitter, though, so I just, you know, I just I listen to these guys and I'm like do you see, this is like totally stupid. And they're like well, yeah, but I mean we could create, we could build a spreadsheet for you of all the stupid things that universities do. And keep on. These guys were Berkeley.
John Jaquish:Like these are and my friends were in the material science area of civil engineering, and so you know, they're just kind of telling you like, yeah, like it's like you're going to have really like a lot of trouble finding this, because I wanted to. My goal was, like I want to be able to author papers, academic papers, but I also want to study my own, my own invention, and like, why the hell would I trust somebody else to study it? What if they did it wrong? What are they half-assed it? What have you know? Like, like I should be the guy, like as I'm, I'm going to pay attention at a completely different level than somebody who's just assigned the project. And they were like, yeah, we totally get it, but that's just not the way things are done. So finally I found a university that was willing to let me do it and that's why I picked that one, rushmore University. So I did my dissertation, published my dissertation.
John Jaquish:That's available on my website if somebody wants to read that. By the way, I don't recommend reading that Very boring it is. It is for free on my website. It is worth it. It's just, you know, I mean it's a dissertation.
Jack Heald:It's. We'll get Grace Price to read it. You've got an had an 18 year old on who's already learned how to read a medical research study, so we'll get her to do that.
John Jaquish:It's just exhausting, it's just like one of those things is like every little detail. Yeah, we wrote like 20 pages about it.
Jack Heald:Yeah.
John Jaquish:Like anything, you know how to capture the load and get the loading into you know computer system. Like like there's like 40 pages on that, like who the hell would even want to know that? Like I'm not going to get exhausted out of a thing in this dissertation authoring. So what was the question? Anyway, I'm not exactly sure it was.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, it was really just what. What was your mindset in, in kind, of solving this problem that had never been solved before?
John Jaquish:Oh, oh yeah, I started going down to. You know, basically, my PhD advisor told me, if you, that's why I went through with the order of things, so I invented it before I did my PhD. And here's the issue. It's like he said, if you had done it the other way around, if you had, like, maybe a vague idea what you were going to do, and then you want to do a PhD in biomedical engineering, you would have talked yourself out of this and I was like why do you say that?
John Jaquish:And he says it's so unorthodox, like what your approach to bone density is like absolutely the opposite of anyone else in the field. Except when I ended up showing it to the experts in the field they were like this is so refreshing, this is great, like I really I know like the the pharmaceutical industry gets beat up on a lot probably rightly so, for some of the bias data, maybe some of the lack of quality clinical trials, putting maybe profits over safety. You know we debate that endlessly. But I was pleasantly surprised that these guys who had spent their entire lives developing drugs and testing drugs, performing pharmaceutical companies, were like wow, this is a great solution for the majority of the population.
John Jaquish:Some people just can't physically engage their body, you know, because of biomechanics problems or chronic pain. So there's a percentage of the population not a big percentage, maybe 5% just absolutely unwilling to do anything that requires effort, like some people are just, you know, like this is like the, you know, maybe call them I don't want to misuse this term so I got to put a caveat on it but pretty much like the fibromyalgia crowd.
John Jaquish:So like fibromyalgia is, the definition is sort of unexplained pain. People perceive pain and they might actually have real pain and it's not for a reason that's easily diagnosed. It might be a impinged nerve that is just showing inflammation in a different place, or it could be somebody who's just a massive pussy, who just doesn't want to do anything. And therefore they claim and I remember, like some of the first people I put on the osteostarone device, as I remember this one woman she's like out, out, out, out, out out, and I'm like it hasn't started yet. You just sat in a seat. Oh, so I mean she's complaining about how much it hurts before it even started and you can imagine how this went. Like everything you know hurt. Did it really hurt? No, she just she loves playing the victim.
John Jaquish:You know if she's not an invalid, then she loses her identity. So you know like, okay, just get out of here. So for those people, the pharmaceuticals, but that's only like 5% of the population.
Jack Heald:A question occurred to me as we're talking, as you were talking about impact, I've heard can't remember who it was we had on the show but they were talking about the benefits of jumping off of things but then onto things.
John Jaquish:Yeah, off of is what you need to do.
Jack Heald:Yeah, and so the thought occurs to me a couple of things. What are the? Are there any common fields of human endeavor that generate these kinds of forces regularly? If so, what are they? Yeah, gymnastics.
John Jaquish:Common Wrong. That's the problem. No, I mean common no. And also, you know you're not going to take a post-menopausal population and say, okay, we're all doing gymnastics today, yeah, we're going to do the parallel bars now.
Jack Heald:Yeah, that's not going to happen, yeah.
John Jaquish:So I think there's an area where maybe women are just starting menopause, or maybe before, where they can really build their bone mass to a significant degree by doing high impact but trying to control for the variable, so just landing from another surface so you can go out to the curb and hop off the curb and see. You know, see, use the software to see how much force that's getting through your lower extremities. And now also, when you can, the monitoring and then the practice, like if you practice something you can get pretty good at it. You know, rebuild your balance. And one of the things with the post-menopausal population and I mean we can say the same thing for men in their fifth decade of life Are they really challenging their balance, making their activities? They're like, no, not at all. But if they start doing this protocol they'll maintain a lot of balance and then they'll be able to induce enough force through the bone mass to maintain bone mass. And if they get past 4.2, multiple is body weight they can grow, make it more dense.
Jack Heald:I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole with the biochemistry of bone growth, but I'm fascinated. Have there been any studies, do you have any evidence, clinical or otherwise, of the other benefits of focusing on bone density rather than muscle growth?
John Jaquish:Yeah, but you know, because I'm the scientist of the company, I tried not to say things like that, Like what we've seen here. Okay, what we've seen, but it has not been proven in research.
Jack Heald:So it's like I don't care if it's clinical or not.
John Jaquish:We're um massive pain relief, like joint, like like there are people who are like, like, my high school principal was one of them. Um, he's had back pain since. I mean, I knew, I knew I was a little kid. Um, you know, I uh, in high school, on the junior high, I lived in the Napa Valley and I went to the Catholic high school in the Napa Valley. So I knew him even before, um, before going to high school, because he was a college basketball referee and whenever you go to like St Mary's games and the Catholic college, uh, he was, he was the ref and uh, so, um, and just involved in sort of the Catholic church and Napa, napa Valley, and so I got to know him and he was always in pain, always in pain.
John Jaquish:As soon as I developed the prototype, I called him I still call him Mr Schmitz, because it's really weird to call him by his first name. He's my principal, right? So, mr Schmitz, like you know, can you, can you come and try this thing? I think it'll really help your back and you know, like is it going to hurt, because I'm already in enough pain. Like, just just trust me, like I think it'd be fine and it completely fixes the problem. He's like 30 years of back pain gone in like weeks. Because you're, you're really you're forcing the musculature Remember I said neurological changes, right, gaging more tissue or in the surrounding area, so the muscles more readily firing to support the joint. Another thing in 1996, there was a study by Benjamin and Ralph's that showed if you compress a joint on its axis, so this is the axis of a joint, so like this is not the axis, so. So end to end loading this way. Loading this way you can force the tendons, the ligaments, the joint capsule to thicken with fibrocarbology, not to be confused with cartilage.
Jack Heald:But basically what is it? What are the implications of the thickened?
John Jaquish:Better support of the joint. Like you're making a thicker, more powerful joint capsule by compressing the joint on its axis and so that's that's a very curative approach to bone on bone. Like if you have a knee, that's bone on bone. It's always going to be bone on bone. But you can certainly engage the musculature, the tendons and the ligaments to grow and take some of the stress off of that joint, pull that apart just a little bit so that the contact is not so painful.
John Jaquish:So what'll happen is somebody who's bone on bone in their knee like scheduled for, you know, joint replacement, they do osteosteosteostrong for six months and they cut their pain in half. Then they're like well, I don't need the joint replacement anymore. Six more months they cut their pain in half again. So now that we've got 25% of the pain they started with the pain they started with was debilitating. They like couldn't walk up or downstairs you know they have to sidestep on stairs or something like that. And so the pain. Once you cut your pain by 75%, they're like yeah, I still feel it, but it's not limiting, like I can do whatever I want. So that is a side benefit to osteostrong.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:I want to go back to the muscle building and dig into that a little bit more. Talk about the concept of variable resistance, and you know what it is and what advantages it has. You kind of touched on it a little bit, but let's go a little deeper on it.
John Jaquish:You want the entire movement to be relevant and, like I was saying, this phenomena with the lengthened partial. So just doing repetitions in the weak range of motion gives you the same result as training with a full range of motion. Right, but in that lengthened partial range, that's the only place if you're lifting a regular weight, that's the only place you're really working hard anyway. So it makes obvious sense to me. I think this whole lengthened partial argument is a monument to why you would want to do variable resistance, because with regular weights the weight is only relevant when you're at the bottom. It's easy up here, so it's like you're doing nothing.
Jack Heald:Okay, because I'm the dummy here. I want to make sure I'm clear on that. It's relevant at the bottom, because you are forcing the muscle to do what the muscle is not up to handling yet and as you get closer to your maximum strength, not quite.
John Jaquish:No, that's why I am. The bottom of the movement is just the limiting factor. It's where you are weakest, it's where you're biomechanically, just from a leverage perspective, and the greatest disadvantage is also where you have the least amount of muscle tissue engaged. So it's always going to be weaker. So with the bottom of the squat, you're doing a squat and your butt's almost touching your ankles, your heels. Yeah, you're not powerful in that position at all.
John Jaquish:Yeah, and in fact there's a lot of people who can't do a body weight squat, where they go all the way down and all the way up. You got to grab onto something and help themselves up. So that's the position where you're doing work, like if you're lifting a regular weight. It's only hard at the weak points and then the rest of it's easy, sort of like I said, most people can't squat their own body weight if they go all the way down. But if you tell somebody even somebody who's out of shape bend your knees and just stand there, letting your quadriceps hold you up, as opposed to just your bone, bone mass, yeah, stand there with your knees slightly bent for hours, like not hard work at all.
John Jaquish:But you get somebody and say, squat down and leave your femurs, your thigh bones, parallel to the ground. How long can you be there? Most people like half a second, maybe two seconds, maybe athletic people like 20 seconds, but it's like you're massively weak in that position. So the idea of variable resistance is change the force so that it's relevant in all positions. So when I do a chest press I have 200 pounds at the bottom. Halfway up it becomes 300 pounds, then all the way up it becomes 550 pounds. But I would never get under a bar with 550 pounds on it. I mean, first of all I'd never get it off my chest and also there's probably no spotter who could lift it off my chest if I couldn't lift it myself, so I'd probably die. So I'm getting the benefit of that 550 pound bench press, but the risk is very low.
Jack Heald:That makes sense. We had Mark Ripitow on, and then we had Ben Bochiki.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Ben Bochichi. Yeah.
Jack Heald:Here in the last couple of months and it was fascinating to hear the two guys who've been in it for 50 years and with different approaches. Mark is very, very clear. He's about building strength. It's that simple. He doesn't care what your body looks like, it is strictly about getting stronger. Ben is more, although they both have similar looking bodies from 50 years of working out. Ben is a little more focused on the overall fitness aspect of it. Both of them are it's weights that they're recommending Slightly different approaches. I think you know for the average Joe like me, any of these programs that I picked up would help me. The differences in the details and for the folks who are probably the top 20% would see difference. And that leads me to my question. For the average Joe like me, let's talk about the X3 and the types of results that could be expected and the type of work that can be done, and specifically I'm thinking about time spent working out weekly.
John Jaquish:So I want you to think about the people you know. This is a fun, this is a very fun question you asked. I got a great answer for it. So think about all the people you know who engage on a regular basis in fitness, some type of strength training or whatever. Let's say it's 20 people Out of those 20, how many of them, year after year, look exactly the same? I'm guessing 20.
Jack Heald:Yeah, I would.
John Jaquish:Yeah, the vast majority of people whether it's 99% or 99.9% of people who attempt to be involved in strength training, other than maybe the gains they get in the first couple of weeks, end up with nothing Like nothing at all. They look the same, feel the same same strength, and there's some huge reasons that nobody's really willing to talk about because they're genetic. There's nothing you can do about it. Well, almost nothing you can do about it. So when and like? This is my my Ted.
John Jaquish:Talk is very controversial, because this is why I covered this in my Ted Talk that the difference is. The funny thing is it shouldn't be controversial.
Jack Heald:I thought that was fascinating. It's painfully obvious. I watched your Ted Talk and this fascinated me. And I have audience to hear this.
John Jaquish:Yeah, the ten in this before.
John Jaquish:Ten in insurance. So my pectoral muscles the origin is on the stern, everybody's the same but where it connects to the humerus bone is usually right at the top, right here, and you know so, as I'm doing chest exercises, I'm basically moving the humerus bone towards the midline of my body, shortening my pectoral. So whether I'm doing a pressing movement or a flying type movement, basically the same thing. Now some people have this insertion point which I know exactly where mine is. Like I can actually physically feel, like you know, when I go to, like, make my pec jump like this, I can feel, you know, dig in underneath my bicep and I can feel that where that tendon is, some people have it way down the bone, almost on the other side, and when you have that, you're probably going to be in the NFL Is when you pick up weights.
John Jaquish:Or one of my favorite NFL players spent a summer mowing lawns when he was 14. I think he gained like 50 pounds of muscle Mowing lawns. Mowing lawns yeah, I mean just your kid from you know, like where was he? Like? Middle Tennessee, you know a lot of people have big lawns, so he's mowed lawns and you know, at the end it was like, you know, he's a freshman in high school or whatever.
John Jaquish:Everybody's like you should probably go off for football. You know, especially like wow, what are you benching? He's like, oh, I've never even seen a bench press. Like okay, so you got to go see the coach. And so these guys, because of the fact that they have a lever built into their body that is made of the most elastic material on earth, and then it's almost like they're training with rubber bands on the inside of their bodies, like those rubber bands are forcing incredible muscular engagement. So these are the people and everybody went to high school with a guy like this. I feel like at least I did. Where, you know, everybody starts sort of lifting weights freshman year and then you know, by the beginning of sophomore year, it's like one guy like everybody looked like they were 14 freshman year and then sophomore year, everybody still looks like they're 14, except one guy who all of a sudden looks like he's 25. And it's because of this.
John Jaquish:You know, advantage is tendon layout and some of these people, like I said, they tend to be in the NFL. Another really easy one to spot is really high calf muscles. So people of African descent have higher calves and a longer tendon. Well, that longer tendon is going to give them more recycled energy with every toe strike and engage more musculature as they contract that calf. So, like you know, us European descent people, we have longer calf muscles, but are we ever going to be as fast as people with higher calf muscles?
John Jaquish:Nope, this is why not a lot of whites prayers. It's a perfect example where it's like oh, I mean like that's kind of obvious. Now it's easy to see the tendon insertions and the distance of a muscle compared to where the ankle is on the calf. It's mostly where you can't really see where that's going on, but the similar geometry can be echoed throughout the body and that's why I mean it's just like I said, it's like 1% of the population. They pick up weights and they just grow, and everybody else they can do all the same stuff and nothing, and so with variable resistance.
John Jaquish:You bypass this because in that weaker range of motion you're handling a smaller amount of weight and as so you're basically taking your internal leverage sort of like off the table, because as you begin to shorten the muscle and gain a mechanical advantage on it, it's starting to fire anyway, because that long sort of lever arm effect that those genetically gifted people have just becomes less relevant and everybody can engage in the same way, which is why when people got X3 a couple of years ago, they were putting on 20 pounds of muscle in six months, and now that that's a really good result.
John Jaquish:That's not absolutely everybody, but we're that was common Like we have thousands of people who have written reviews to that tune and you think 20 pounds of muscle there's people who've been working out 20 years and they haven't been able to gain five pounds of muscle, or they think they've gained five pounds of muscle in 20 years, but it was really just fat.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:And what talk about the role that? You know, one of the things that the X3 does is it really allows you to push, to push your muscles to failure safely. And what are those advantages of really getting the muscle to failure?
John Jaquish:Well, two things. You're getting the muscle to fatigue where it's in its strongest position, which is something you can never do with weights, and this is why variable resistance has been traditionally associated with strength. So the strongest people in the world. In fact, I'm in the middle of doing some filming and making a documentary I filmed with two former West Side Barbell athletes. Now West Side Barbell Club was a private gym in Ohio, cleveland, ohio. They have more world records out of that gym than any country on earth. It's just one gym. So how'd they do it? How'd they break all these strength records? How'd they get a bunch of strong people to sign up and be members there?
John Jaquish:Well, the first, they just started breaking all the world records and they did it with variable resistance.
John Jaquish:So they realized that you can engage the human body much more, build a lot more muscle, get the body accustomed. This is what your son was trying to do to you when he you know get the weight on your back, just get used to feeling that weight, and then you can work on your range of motion. So that's a very smart approach. But variable resistance sort of does that for you, like when you're in that stronger range of motion, you're handling way more force than you otherwise would be able to put on your body in a gym type environment. But as you back off that position it becomes a more normal weight. So the fatigue in the strong range. So when I go to fatigue and you know I've got 550 and then I can't do those reps anymore, then I do shorter range repetitions or lengthened partials so and that's with two or 300 pounds which is, you know, much more like fatiguing in a standard sense. But I've already fatigued so much more musculature in that stronger range of motion which is massive superior stimulus.
Jack Heald:I know you've been doing this for a while and this is probably an impossible question to answer, but what is the experience, subjectively, of doing a bench press with the X3 compared to a barbell or doing a squat or a deadlift? How is it different other than?
John Jaquish:massively more work done, like you can continue to engage past fatigue and you're dealing with much more weight, because it's a strategic approach to get as much force through that muscle as possible. So like I would do a regular bench press, you know, let's say I would do 225 for repetitions. Okay, but with variable resistance. I might hit 550 pounds at the peak 20 times and then be training with 300 pounds for the next four or five repetitions and then 200 pounds for the next four or five repetitions. So it's just a massive, massively incredible amount of work you can get done in one set and that's why the stimulus is so much more powerful.
Jack Heald:Is the recovery longer? No Same why.
John Jaquish:No, it's the way the body works. I mean, recovery is recovery. What most people are recovering from after a workout is damage, and it's sort of a myth that you create like little micro tears in your muscle and then the body repairs those. The muscle becomes stronger. It's actually the opposite of that. As you damage the muscle while you're training, that repair is actually what's taken away from growth. Only when you don't damage anything and just stimulate do you have pure growth.
Jack Heald:Wow, you're in over. Help me out, phil. I'm, I'm.
John Jaquish:There's a lot of research on it.
Jack Heald:I got the limits of my, of my understanding now.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, I mean basically what you're saying is, if I understand correctly, you you can't repair and grow kind of at the same time?
John Jaquish:Yeah, so when people damage the body, it's just the damage that repairs itself and you don't grow at all. Right, right?
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, and you know again that kind of, as you said, I mean that that's a very common misconception that you hear out there. You know that you got to do the damage muscle to stimulate it to grow. So that kind of brings us into, you know, talk about the role of nutrition and the building blocks that you then need to get. You know, to get muscle to grow and I guess it really is the same to get bones stronger, right, you know what's involved in that.
John Jaquish:High quality protein? That's really the answer. Which almost everything I eat is animal protein. Like the only exception is like I'm not going to be the difficult guy that like sends the steak back because they put some chimichurri sauce on it, you know, and just kind of scrape it off and eat it. So like pretty much just meat and water is my diet.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:And what kind of what? What do you think the right amount of protein is for people?
John Jaquish:Oh, a lot of literature on this. One gram per pound of body weight is the most common finding. Now that's total body weight, not lean body weight. But also most of it was tested on people who are around 20% body fat. So I would just, you know, say, if somebody's like really obese, like I would tell them to adjust that number, to imagine they had 20%. So they're 500 pounds. You know, you don't need 500 grams of protein, but you might need 250 grams.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah, and what? What's your take on? You know there's a lot of debate around. You know, can you do this basically, like in one meal? Do you have to divide it up into six meals a day? You know the you know that's not a debate.
John Jaquish:Simple. It might be people who don't understand how things work. But the amount this is a direct quote from a study that came out a couple of weeks ago. The amount of protein that can be used for an ableism, meaning growth of tissue, is unlimited. So I eat one meal a day usually, and it's usually like two or three pounds of steak just the one sitting.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:It's really convenient. I'm eating today.
John Jaquish:Like I don't have to horse around. So like my wife knows not to get in my way when I'm preparing dinner, it's just like a just don't get in my way.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:That's it.
John Jaquish:That's all you got to worry about, yeah.
Jack Heald:You're probably not the guy to ask for the official scientific medical answer to this, but because you eat that way, you may or may not have had this experience. Do you have any mineral problems? Do you have to supplement with?
John Jaquish:That's a great question.
Jack Heald:And no, I got a great answer for that.
John Jaquish:I was worried in the beginning, like, oh, there's got to be. Like we've been told all kinds of micronutrients that we need and vitamins and all kinds of stuff no-transcript the lowest quality recommendation in medicine. And by quality, when you have multiple randomized control trials. They came to similar conclusions. So that would be like an example of strong or quality evidence. When it comes to vitamins and minerals, the AMA doesn't have anything better than what they came up with in the 1950s, which was based on expert opinion, which is bullshit. Like expert opinion based on who are the experts in the 1950s? Because nothing was measured back then, so they didn't even have normative data. Like I have a problem with normative data in general because saying you're outside of normative data, it's like, yeah, great, 75% of people are overweight or obese, so why would I want to be like them? The normative data is throwing the trash. Like I don't want to be like everybody else. That's a stupid recommendation. But when it comes to vitamins and minerals, the recommendations are wildly outdated and easily provably wrong. So here's a question and I want both of you to answer this separately.
John Jaquish:Imagine you couldn't have any supplements, but you could source your foods from anywhere you wanted, which, by the way, people never did until now. I mean, I love the vegans who are like, well, you know you need, it's essential. You have your nut and butter from Madagascar and it's just like you, fucking idiot. What are you talking about? Nobody ever had that. You think you need that to survive? Like literally nobody had that, including the people in Madagascar, but like they've only been doing this like the last 10 years and they wonder who's buying their stuff. Like who's the sucker that's buying this stuff? It's unbelievable, anyway. So if you were to just eat whole foods to get to the recommended allowances of vitamins and minerals ascribed by the American Medical Association.
John Jaquish:How many calories would you need to take in? So just take a guess how many calories to get all your vitamins and minerals in one day.
Jack Heald:I wouldn't have any earthly idea how to answer that question?
Dr. Philip Ovadia:I'm going to guess 3,000.
John Jaquish:OK, jack, really.
Jack Heald:Well, I'm old enough and have dealt with enough different health issues. I've learned how to eat for myself, to make myself feel good. And the way you just described three pounds of steak a day that sounds like nirvana to me. It is. You know, I had steak last night. In fact, phil, I ate a steak that you sent me last night. Thank you, that was just spectacular. Made that for Valentine's for my wife and I. That's a nirvana for me. For for for my meal before the podcast, I had a mixture of hamburger and scrambled eggs with some homemade yogurt. That so good.
John Jaquish:That's amazing. So take a guess. I need a calorie number. How many calories to get all your vitamins and minerals ascribed by the American Medical Association?
Jack Heald:1,500. Ok, 1,500. I don't. I don't think about calories.
John Jaquish:The answer is 25,000 calories, 25,000.
John Jaquish:Yeah, so you need 25,000 calories of whole foods to get to the minimum amount of vitamins and minerals. So now, aside from the fact that if any human tried to eat that, they would die way before 25,000 calories Also, a rhino does not eat 25,000 calories in a day. Like that's just a crazy number. So obviously these recommendations are just ridiculous and they don't mean anything. And probably all of us have, according to the data, massive vitamin deficiencies. But guess what? We're not sick. There's nothing wrong with us. So the recommendations are just dumb. So my advice is don't pay any attention to them. They are just as stupid as the whole 25,000 calorie thing.
John Jaquish:Unless you plant in 25,000 calories. Just think, and no one can just forget it. The whole argument is dumb. Also, there's another study that they did on women, and I don't think it's gender specific, I think it just happened to pick women. People who take a multivitamin actually die younger. No, is it because the vitamin is bad for them? No, it might have something to do with placing false hope in something that you think is going to help you but in actuality does nothing. Yeah, yeah, like. I know people who they take some sort of thermogenic supplement to lose body fat, or lose weight, as they call it, and it's like they're obese and they're taking this every day and they're eating garbage, thinking that it's their fat burner that's going to save the day. Of course, it never happens, but they don't ever convince themselves that it's not working because they want to believe it's working.
John Jaquish:And now we have ozempic, which is the latest, like, oh, this will solve all my problems, yeah, cause a bunch of other ones. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:So you kind of touched on protein quality there. Just again, your take on it. Animal proteins versus plant proteins. Can you do it with plant proteins? Is there any role for plant proteins in your mind? No, no plant protein.
John Jaquish:Like, if you try and do it with just plant protein, you'll die of malnutrition. You have to supplement. Now some of my like I make a product called Fortigen and that's essential amino acids. That is the byproduct of bacterial fermentation. Now if somebody's willing to go down the fermentation road and I mean a vegan, could eat kimchi or sauerkraut, which are fermented vegetables, and so they can get some of that. But it's like you got to eat so much of that stuff to make that much of a difference. So I would just say, like an individual, you know you can't eat vegetables, you can't eat vegetables. You can't eat vegetables, you can't eat vegetables, you can't eat vegetables. So I would just say like an vegetable protein.
John Jaquish:As far as usability, based on its the prevalence of essential amino acids, most plant proteins are lower than 9% usable by the body, and it's just because they have the wrong amino acids we don't have maybe you said another way.
John Jaquish:This is involved in extracting amino acids out of fibrous plant mass, so, like gorillas and monkeys can do it, but we don't have a functioning appendix so we can't Like it just goes right through us and that's why plant protein is just. This is a waste of time, like it's not garbage but it's. You have to eat so much of it it would kill you before you would even get to the minimum usable amount by the body. And you know and it was refined like pea protein is what we find in pea protein is a lot of heavy metals, because they're grinding. They're grinding all these vegetables up with metal blades which are putting basically powdered metal, because the blades are, you know, shearing each other. So there's a little bit of powdered metal that gets into your pea protein and gives you mineral poisoning. So like, why don't you just have a steak and do any of that other stuff? Oh gosh.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Yeah that question? Yeah, that question solves, I think, a lot of the world's problems. Why don't you just have a steak? Yeah, I think that's a great way to sum it up. Yeah.
John Jaquish:I mean we. So two million years, that's all we ate and we thrived somehow. I didn't even have health care. Exactly People still thrived.
Jack Heald:Yeah, how has your physiology changed? I am assuming that you are your own best customer, so how has your physiology changed since you've gone down this path? I'm not going to limit it to the X3. Let's take it as far back as you want.
John Jaquish:I wish I were my own best customer because I'd have a lot nicer shit. I always get the broken X3 bars. I get the bands that are like defective. Yeah, it's like like my Fortigen cans are all crushed. It's like, oh yeah, somebody drove over a pallet of Fortigen so you can have all the broken ones. You know, the cobbler's kid has no shoes, so that's what I get, but it doesn't matter, because you know like it works really well. How's my physiology changed? Well, I was probably a really average looking guy like on my 40th birthday, like I mean, I was 20% body fat. I weighed 190 pounds, you know, a little chubby, not strong. Despite the fact that I worked out for 20 years, I got nothing out of it. Also, I had been on testosterone replacement therapy for 12 of those years at 40. Yeah, yeah, I had a bad accident at 28. Um, just take your damage from a rugby hit.
John Jaquish:So I was playing uh club rugby, semi-pro rugby, uh, after college and I just got a bad hit and uh, you know you're supposed to wear a cup but nobody does cause you can't really sprint and I was an outside center, which is like a wide receiver, so like you need a lot of speed and a lot of single one of the cup, yeah. Until you get hit and then all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, that's why?
John Jaquish:That's why I had some significant to secular damage in it. It lowered my testosterone to the point where my cardiologist was like your, your, uh, your heart is super weak and I'm like I play rugby. How was that possible? Like, rugby is 80 minutes of sprinting and coming. I should have the most powerful heart ever.
John Jaquish:And uh, fortunately, the guy was like you need to see an endocrinologist. I think you have, uh, that testicular damage that you had, that that affected your testosterone. And uh, so I did my blood work at 160, seven nanograms to the deciliter of testosterone. So normal is between like 800 and 1200 for, um, you know, maybe like African Americans and uh, 600 to 1000 for, like, white, hispanic and Asian people. So I mean, I was horribly low and, uh, I was to the point where my cardiologist said you might actually have an adverse event in like, like before you know you're, you're like through your mid and middle adulthood because of this, like you need to make your heart stronger. We need to get you testosterone replacement therapy.
John Jaquish:And, of course, back when I was 28, so this is a while ago this was, you know, that's 19 years ago. It was on 47. Now I was like, wow, like I thought testosterone was steroids and steroids are bad and uh, fortunately, my endocrinologist is like yeah, well, what you see on the news is stupid. Like that's not at all how it works. In fact, there's more testosterone receptors in the. I'm actually curious if this is true. He told me there's more testosterone receptors in the heart versus all the other muscles combined.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Have you ever heard that I'm not, I'm not yeah, I actually haven't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that that's true, I guess.
John Jaquish:Right Cause people who think about steroids. They have enlarged hearts.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:They get heart failure and enlarged hearts. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
John Jaquish:Yeah, so. So I had confused the muscle.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Your body wants to yeah, I was just going to say the heart muscle your body wants to protect most, so it would make sense.
John Jaquish:Yeah, so. So once I got on testosterone replacement therapy, my heart started working perfectly and I didn't have any other issue. But that didn't. Even even a decent dosage of testosterone did not help me grow any skeletal muscle. And then, and then it was like like so I turned 40 and my birthday present to myself was I had a prototype of a device built that I just I had an idea about. I said I think this is going to change everything. I think we're going to train with very heavy variable resistance and this should solve the tendon insertion problem. And boy, did it ever?
John Jaquish:I put on 30 pounds of muscle in the first year and like I was unrecognizable. I would go back to like a fraternity, like you know, reunion, and they would, you know, do a double take and like not recognize me and they're like, oh my God, john J, we're just like what happened to you. I looked like a completely different human being and like to this day, like I don't. You know, I have a shadow under my packs. I never had that before. I have visible abs, never had that. But I was like that was like in high school, when I was like, you know, 130 pounds. So you know, like that is what I count for. Anything so much stronger, much leaner, better performance.
Jack Heald:Is the only variable that has changed the X3?
John Jaquish:Yes, only so. My nutrition didn't change. I was kind of wrong before. Yeah, just X3. How tall are you? Interesting? I have grown, and some some wellness experts think it's because of the fasting that I do, but I was six feet tall from time I graduated high school up until recently, and now all of a sudden I'm six one. Oh, for whatever reason, that's fascinating. Yeah, wow, in my 40s I've gotten taller Like I don't know why you know a fast goal does increase growth hormone, but I mean growth hormone.
John Jaquish:Growth hormone makes you grow when you're a kid yeah, like not now.
Jack Heald:So I mean you don't do any other biohacking.
John Jaquish:I mean fasting, like that, but I mean, you know, like red light therapy or no?
Jack Heald:is this? This is a hardcore fasting, like those Harvard students did this last week where they they fasted for 12 hours to protest.
John Jaquish:I don't know whatever it was or Harvard students are usually protesting, something the no no, no, this is like 72 hours. Well, so 72 hours no food, no water.
Jack Heald:Is that frequent? How often do you do that Well?
John Jaquish:I used to do it every week, but then you know my I started losing the fat around my eyes and it was like this like a shadow, like surrounding my eyes started showing up and I just started looking really skeletal.
Jack Heald:Yeah, that's me, that's that's what I'm actually only 27.
John Jaquish:But I see, yeah, I mean you know ultimately, like when you get a certain level of lean especially with natural athletes, I think, because anabolic steroids keep your blood pressure higher. You don't see that in steroid users, but like if you watch a natural, actual, tested, natural bodybuilding competition, the faces look really sunken in. Yeah, and I think it was a little scary, it's just not not a good look, it's also not sustainable, so who cares?
John Jaquish:It's like you're only look like that for a day and then you like I have have a couple of sips of water and it's like, okay, that's gone.
Jack Heald:Yeah your body doesn't like any. I got one more question, phil Any limits? I'm going to go straight to the X three Any limits in terms of the muscle, the big muscle building movements. You know, mark Ripitao says there's only five exercises you need squat, deadlift, bench overhead and row and that'll hit all the big muscles and that are supported by all the smaller muscles. Are there any limits with the X three and if so, what?
John Jaquish:are in fact, all those movies you just mentioned are like the core movements of X three. So Marx is smart guy, he's right Now. I mean, will you get like a bodybuilder would have a lot of problems with this conversation.
Jack Heald:This is not a bodybuilder. Yeah.
John Jaquish:I mean, are there some accessory things you can do for, like the posterior deltoid? You know, if you want a bulge right here, yeah sure. But you know, I mean, most people will never get lean enough to even find that muscle, so right, now, okay, sorry, phil, I just, I'm just a device.
Dr. Philip Ovadia:Great questions. Yeah, this has been. This has really been a fascinating discussion. We've touched on bone muscle and we even touched on primate appendixes, so I think people will learn a lot from this one. Where can people find out more?
John Jaquish:Well, because my last name is so difficult to spell and pronounce, my website is DrJcom. You know Julia's Irving is just fishing right now, so he didn't need it. So it's d-o-c-t-o-r, the letter Jcom, and there's links there for superior exercise takes you to X three. Superior bone density takes you to osteostrongic. Superior nutrition takes you to fordagen. The yeah, and I'm just I would say, if you're going to follow me on it's. There's links to all my social media on DrJcom, but I prefer Instagram. I just like the platform, I think, because it requires you to type on your phone. A lot of people are a little bit lazier and so you don't have the same amount of sort of jealous rage tantrums out of the trolls. You know, it's just sort of like it, just that maybe these complaints.
Jack Heald:That may be the best explanation of why you could do one platform rather than another, because it's too much effort to be a troll on Instagram.
John Jaquish:Yeah, like, it's really not a lot of like. There's people who just say, like you know one, like you'll post 10 studies to support a thing, and then someone's response is bullshit yeah, it's like okay, so which study? Which of the 10 studies you have a problem with? You know it's just they don't want to believe it, so it's like okay, well, you know, they're got a place for people like you, like well, the Democratic Party, you can have 62 different genders.
Jack Heald:I'm going to ask you a question about your Myers brings after we've stopped recording. This is this has been John J Quish on the stay off my operating table podcast. I've loved just just getting to hear you talk and get to ask these questions that I know a bunch of my buddies are going to be interested in this as well. Thanks for being with us everybody. For Dr Philip Ovedia, this has been the stay off my operating table podcast and we will talk to you guys next time. Oh, you know what? Drjcom, d-o-c-t-o-r-jcom. Everything will be in the show notes Now. We'll see you next time.