{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":35.82,"endTime":38.010000000000005,"body":"Welcome back to the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":35.82,"endTime":38.010000000000005,"body":"Stay On My Operating Table"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":38.010000000000005,"endTime":41.760000000000005,"body":"podcast with Dr. Philip Ovadia."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":38.010000000000005,"endTime":41.760000000000005,"body":"I'm your host, Jack Heald. Dr."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":41.760000000000005,"endTime":46.11,"body":"O., before we go into the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":41.760000000000005,"endTime":46.11,"body":"subject of today's meeting, I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":46.11,"endTime":48.99,"body":"would like to say"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":46.11,"endTime":48.99,"body":"congratulations. I got"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":48.99,"endTime":53.790000000000006,"body":"notification that this podcast"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":48.99,"endTime":53.790000000000006,"body":"has hit 5000 downloads. And"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":55.650000000000006,"endTime":58.56,"body":"that's pretty impressive in the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":55.650000000000006,"endTime":58.56,"body":"short amount of time that you've"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":58.56,"endTime":60.120000000000005,"body":"been. You've been doing this."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":62.849000000000004,"endTime":65.219,"body":"Thank you, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":62.849000000000004,"endTime":65.219,"body":"was very excited to see that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":65.249,"endTime":68.999,"body":"And we're recording this a few"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":65.249,"endTime":68.999,"body":"days before Thanksgiving. And I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":68.999,"endTime":72.689,"body":"just want to say how thankful I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":68.999,"endTime":72.689,"body":"am for everyone that has been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":72.689,"endTime":75.41900000000001,"body":"tuning in everyone that has been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":72.689,"endTime":75.41900000000001,"body":"listening, all the great"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":75.41900000000001,"endTime":79.319,"body":"feedback that we've been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":75.41900000000001,"endTime":79.319,"body":"getting, and just glad that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":79.319,"endTime":84.689,"body":"we're able to get useful"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":79.319,"endTime":84.689,"body":"information in the hands, so to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":84.689,"endTime":88.97900000000001,"body":"speak, I guess the minds of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":84.689,"endTime":88.97900000000001,"body":"audience. And I think today's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":88.97900000000001,"endTime":93.239,"body":"topic is going to be quite"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":88.97900000000001,"endTime":93.239,"body":"useful information for people to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":93.239,"endTime":94.019,"body":"understand."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":95.09,"endTime":97.79,"body":"Useful, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":95.09,"endTime":97.79,"body":"that's one of the very best"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":97.79,"endTime":101.66,"body":"things about the things that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":97.79,"endTime":101.66,"body":"you've been teaching me is, is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":101.66,"endTime":109.55,"body":"this is not all theory there."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":101.66,"endTime":109.55,"body":"It's very practical things that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":109.55,"endTime":117.41,"body":"I can do. And my wife, as she's"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":109.55,"endTime":117.41,"body":"listened to these things, we do"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":117.41,"endTime":120.95,"body":"them. She's actually in the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":117.41,"endTime":120.95,"body":"office with me right now. She's"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":120.95,"endTime":124.43,"body":"changed how she eats. So you're"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":120.95,"endTime":124.43,"body":"making a difference out there."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":124.76,"endTime":129.92000000000002,"body":"Alright, so let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":124.76,"endTime":129.92000000000002,"body":"this article you sent me. This"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":129.92000000000002,"endTime":138.26,"body":"is I think a preprint that you"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":129.92000000000002,"endTime":138.26,"body":"sent Me, I'm not sure. But the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":138.26,"endTime":142.13,"body":"title of the article is how to"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":138.26,"endTime":142.13,"body":"survive the medical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":142.16,"endTime":150.23000000000002,"body":"misinformation mess. And it's a,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":142.16,"endTime":150.23000000000002,"body":"I guess, a research report by"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":151.13,"endTime":156.07999999999998,"body":"the main main researcher was"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":151.13,"endTime":156.07999999999998,"body":"John Irenaeus, which is, I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":156.07999999999998,"endTime":161.32999999999998,"body":"guess, fairly well known in your"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":156.07999999999998,"endTime":161.32999999999998,"body":"world. So Edie Stewart Brownlee"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":161.32999999999998,"endTime":165.47000000000003,"body":"and strike, how to survive the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":161.32999999999998,"endTime":165.47000000000003,"body":"medical misinformation mess. I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":165.47000000000003,"endTime":174.58999999999997,"body":"read the whole thing. And I was,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":165.47000000000003,"endTime":174.58999999999997,"body":"I was horrified. I'm a layman. I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":174.58999999999997,"endTime":178.43,"body":"would like you to set this thing"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":174.58999999999997,"endTime":178.43,"body":"up for our audience. And then"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":179.66000000000003,"endTime":180.76999999999998,"body":"let's go through it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":181.73000000000002,"endTime":185.87,"body":"Sure thing."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":181.73000000000002,"endTime":185.87,"body":"And so the copy I had sent you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":185.93,"endTime":190.01,"body":"was the preprint. But it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":185.93,"endTime":190.01,"body":"important to point out that this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":190.01,"endTime":194.72000000000003,"body":"was published in peer reviewed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":190.01,"endTime":194.72000000000003,"body":"this article, as you said, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":194.72000000000003,"endTime":198.86,"body":"titled How to Survive the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":194.72000000000003,"endTime":198.86,"body":"medical misinformation mess was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":198.86,"endTime":200.99,"body":"published in the European"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":198.86,"endTime":200.99,"body":"Journal of Clinical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":200.99,"endTime":206.81,"body":"Investigation in November of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":200.99,"endTime":206.81,"body":"2017. And I think as we go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":206.81,"endTime":211.13,"body":"through the discussion, people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":206.81,"endTime":211.13,"body":"should keep this in mind that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":211.13,"endTime":218.93,"body":"this was published in 2017. You"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":211.13,"endTime":218.93,"body":"know, before the current medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":218.95999999999998,"endTime":225.23000000000002,"body":"misinformation mess that we find"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":218.95999999999998,"endTime":225.23000000000002,"body":"ourselves in, but professor in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":225.23000000000002,"endTime":231.62,"body":"netus, you know, has been on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":225.23000000000002,"endTime":231.62,"body":"forefront of this topic. And I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":231.62,"endTime":236.03000000000003,"body":"think, you know, as I said, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":231.62,"endTime":236.03000000000003,"body":"paper is very timely for us to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":236.03000000000003,"endTime":238.55,"body":"be discussing today/"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":243.53000000000003,"endTime":246.14,"body":"Let me just give the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":243.53000000000003,"endTime":246.14,"body":"headlines and then - you're the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":246.14,"endTime":254.93,"body":"expert. So let's do that first."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":246.14,"endTime":254.93,"body":"The gist of the article is that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":254.99,"endTime":258.32,"body":"there is a tremendous amount of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":254.99,"endTime":258.32,"body":"medical misinformation floating"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":258.32,"endTime":264.68,"body":"around, not just amongst the lay"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":258.32,"endTime":264.68,"body":"people like myself, but also in"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":264.68,"endTime":271.1,"body":"the medical community itself."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":264.68,"endTime":271.1,"body":"And the authors list four key"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":271.1,"endTime":275.54,"body":"problems of medical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":271.1,"endTime":275.54,"body":"misinformation. Those four are"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":275.63,"endTime":279.95,"body":"and I'm just going to read them."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":275.63,"endTime":279.95,"body":"Much published medical research"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":280.16,"endTime":287.63,"body":"is not reliable, or is uncertain"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":280.16,"endTime":287.63,"body":"reliability, offers no benefits"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":287.63,"endTime":291.5,"body":"to patients, or is not useful to"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":287.63,"endTime":291.5,"body":"decision makers. I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":291.5,"endTime":296.42,"body":"all by itself, I just my head,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":291.5,"endTime":296.42,"body":"it made my head explode as we"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":296.42,"endTime":300.14,"body":"used to say, and that's just"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":296.42,"endTime":300.14,"body":"number one. Number two, most"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":300.14,"endTime":303.83,"body":"healthcare professionals are not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":300.14,"endTime":303.83,"body":"aware of this problem. Number"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":303.83,"endTime":307.94,"body":"three, even if they are aware of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":303.83,"endTime":307.94,"body":"this problem, most healthcare"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":307.94,"endTime":311.59999999999997,"body":"professionals lack the skills"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":307.94,"endTime":311.59999999999997,"body":"necessary to evaluate the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":311.59999999999997,"endTime":315.95,"body":"reliability and usefulness of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":311.59999999999997,"endTime":315.95,"body":"medical evidence. That was an"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":315.95,"endTime":320.36,"body":"eye opener, and number four,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":315.95,"endTime":320.36,"body":"patients and families frequently"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":320.36,"endTime":324.56,"body":"lack relevant accurate medical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":320.36,"endTime":324.56,"body":"evidence and skilled guidance at"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":324.56,"endTime":332.69,"body":"the time of medical decision"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":324.56,"endTime":332.69,"body":"making. Wow. This feels like it"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":332.69,"endTime":337.34,"body":"should be like a 12 part"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":332.69,"endTime":337.34,"body":"Document. entry, but we're just"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":337.34,"endTime":341.78,"body":"going to do at least one podcast"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":337.34,"endTime":341.78,"body":"here. Open it up for us Doctor"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":341.78,"endTime":346.01,"body":"Oh, number one, much medical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":341.78,"endTime":346.01,"body":"research is not reliable, or is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":346.01,"endTime":349.76,"body":"uncertain reliability offers no"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":346.01,"endTime":349.76,"body":"benefit to patients or is not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":349.76,"endTime":351.46999999999997,"body":"useful to decision makers."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":352.46,"endTime":355.4,"body":"Yeah, so, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":352.46,"endTime":355.4,"body":"know, to fill in a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":355.4,"endTime":360.38,"body":"the context here, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":355.4,"endTime":360.38,"body":"I want people to understand the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":360.40999999999997,"endTime":365.18,"body":"challenge that faces physicians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":360.40999999999997,"endTime":365.18,"body":"these days, you know, every"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":365.18,"endTime":368.45,"body":"physician goes through their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":365.18,"endTime":368.45,"body":"education go through medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":368.45,"endTime":373.31,"body":"school, in their training. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":368.45,"endTime":373.31,"body":"and one of the common quips, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":373.31,"endTime":375.95,"body":"know, that you hear oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":373.31,"endTime":375.95,"body":"as you're going through medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":375.95,"endTime":379.88,"body":"school, is that half of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":375.95,"endTime":379.88,"body":"information that you learn in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":379.88,"endTime":383.12,"body":"medical school is going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":379.88,"endTime":383.12,"body":"proven wrong, by the time you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":383.12,"endTime":388.7,"body":"retire. We just don't know which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":383.12,"endTime":388.7,"body":"half and you know, every doctor"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":388.7,"endTime":393.8,"body":"wants to stay up to date on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":388.7,"endTime":393.8,"body":"latest, you know, developments"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":393.8,"endTime":398.27,"body":"on you know, the best way to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":393.8,"endTime":398.27,"body":"treat their patients. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":398.42,"endTime":401.69,"body":"they're faced with a kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":398.42,"endTime":401.69,"body":"overwhelming problem. And, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":401.69,"endTime":405.32,"body":"know, in the beginning part of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":401.69,"endTime":405.32,"body":"this paper, they kind of outline"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":405.32,"endTime":410.3,"body":"that problem, that when we go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":405.32,"endTime":410.3,"body":"through PubMed, which is the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":410.3,"endTime":413.63,"body":"kind of database of record of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":410.3,"endTime":413.63,"body":"the published medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":413.63,"endTime":418.64,"body":"literature, there are currently,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":413.63,"endTime":418.64,"body":"and this, again, was four years"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":418.64,"endTime":421.28,"body":"ago that this paper was written,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":418.64,"endTime":421.28,"body":"but at the time that paper was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":421.28,"endTime":425.03,"body":"written, they stated that there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":421.28,"endTime":425.03,"body":"were 17 million articles in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":425.03,"endTime":431.63,"body":"PubMed, that were tagged as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":425.03,"endTime":431.63,"body":"human. And there were over"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":431.63,"endTime":436.82,"body":"700,000 articles that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":431.63,"endTime":436.82,"body":"defined as clinical trials, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":436.82,"endTime":441.65,"body":"well as over 1.8 million review"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":436.82,"endTime":441.65,"body":"articles. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":441.68,"endTime":445.34,"body":"obviously, no physician can keep"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":441.68,"endTime":445.34,"body":"up with, you know, that volume"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":445.34,"endTime":451.49,"body":"of literature. And the problem"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":445.34,"endTime":451.49,"body":"that, you know, problem number"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":451.49,"endTime":455.09,"body":"one that they outlined in this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":451.49,"endTime":455.09,"body":"paper is that much of that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":455.27,"endTime":460.96999999999997,"body":"medical literature is not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":455.27,"endTime":460.96999999999997,"body":"reliable. And, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":460.96999999999997,"endTime":467.99,"body":"seen statistics that show that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":460.96999999999997,"endTime":467.99,"body":"anywhere between, you know, 20,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":468.02,"endTime":473.63,"body":"and 50%, of medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":468.02,"endTime":473.63,"body":"recommendations, is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":473.63,"endTime":476.53999999999996,"body":"inappropriate, or medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":473.63,"endTime":476.53999999999996,"body":"services, I should say, that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":476.53999999999996,"endTime":480.05,"body":"delivered in the United States"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":476.53999999999996,"endTime":480.05,"body":"can be inappropriate at times,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":480.26,"endTime":485.87,"body":"and may even harm patients. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":480.26,"endTime":485.87,"body":"you know, they talk about in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":485.87,"endTime":491.65999999999997,"body":"this paper, how, when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":485.87,"endTime":491.65999999999997,"body":"researchers have gone through"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":491.87,"endTime":496.76,"body":"this sort of grade studies, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":491.87,"endTime":496.76,"body":"determine, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":496.76,"endTime":500.65999999999997,"body":"studies actually meet the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":496.76,"endTime":500.65999999999997,"body":"criteria for being, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":500.65999999999997,"endTime":508.94,"body":"good medical evidence, as few as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":500.65999999999997,"endTime":508.94,"body":"5% of them. So, as few as 5% of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":508.94,"endTime":513.11,"body":"the published studies that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":508.94,"endTime":513.11,"body":"doctors are relying on to, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":513.11,"endTime":517.85,"body":"know, help guide their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":513.11,"endTime":517.85,"body":"treatment, as few as 5% of them"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":517.88,"endTime":524.51,"body":"are actually good studies. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":517.88,"endTime":524.51,"body":"Lord, that is a big problem for,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":524.54,"endTime":530.51,"body":"you know, us as practicing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":524.54,"endTime":530.51,"body":"physicians, because, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":530.51,"endTime":535.97,"body":"most of most physicians don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":530.51,"endTime":535.97,"body":"have the time, or, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":535.97,"endTime":539.63,"body":"we'll talk about later, as we go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":535.97,"endTime":539.63,"body":"through this paper, don't have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":539.63,"endTime":545.4200000000001,"body":"the skills to properly determine"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":539.63,"endTime":545.4200000000001,"body":"what studies are useful and what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":545.4200000000001,"endTime":546.35,"body":"studies are not."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":547.7,"endTime":551.6600000000001,"body":"So, this, this is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":547.7,"endTime":551.6600000000001,"body":"essentially a study of studies."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":552.74,"endTime":558.5300000000001,"body":"And the first the first"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":552.74,"endTime":558.5300000000001,"body":"conclusion they came up with"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":615.7900000000001,"endTime":620.5600000000001,"body":"came to at least the person when"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":615.7900000000001,"endTime":620.5600000000001,"body":"they highlight here is that 95"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":620.62,"endTime":627.34,"body":"out of 100 of these studies are"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":620.62,"endTime":627.34,"body":"deeply flawed. Is a is that did"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":627.34,"endTime":630.0400000000001,"body":"I read that? Right? That's yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":627.34,"endTime":630.0400000000001,"body":"what I took away from it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":630.64,"endTime":633.1600000000001,"body":"Yes, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":630.64,"endTime":633.1600000000001,"body":"exactly right. You know, so less"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":633.1600000000001,"endTime":637.7800000000001,"body":"than one out of every 20 papers"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":633.1600000000001,"endTime":637.7800000000001,"body":"that a physician, you know, ends"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":637.7800000000001,"endTime":642.13,"body":"up looking at is going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":637.7800000000001,"endTime":642.13,"body":"actually a, you know, good"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":642.13,"endTime":646.84,"body":"quality study that should impact"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":642.13,"endTime":646.84,"body":"how do they take care of their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":646.84,"endTime":647.5300000000001,"body":"patients?"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":649.84,"endTime":655.12,"body":"So, I mean, this"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":649.84,"endTime":655.12,"body":"honestly, this problem is, the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":655.12,"endTime":661.69,"body":"way they describe this problem"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":655.12,"endTime":661.69,"body":"is so it was distressing to me."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":664.63,"endTime":665.4100000000001,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":665.47,"endTime":669.34,"body":"I I'm, I'm, I really"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":665.47,"endTime":669.34,"body":"been looking forward to talking"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":669.34,"endTime":674.11,"body":"to you about this since you sent"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":669.34,"endTime":674.11,"body":"it to me, but I I'm just, I'm,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":674.9200000000001,"endTime":682.0300000000001,"body":"frankly, I'm lost. I'm so I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":674.9200000000001,"endTime":682.0300000000001,"body":"mean, I knew things were i i"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":682.0300000000001,"endTime":689.5,"body":"knew things weren't great, but"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":682.0300000000001,"endTime":689.5,"body":"this is this makes a case that I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":689.5,"endTime":695.23,"body":"don't want to overstate it"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":689.5,"endTime":695.23,"body":"You're on the inside. Tell me"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":695.23,"endTime":701.35,"body":"what what the view from the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":695.23,"endTime":701.35,"body":"inside is? As it relates to this"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":701.95,"endTime":708.7,"body":"5% of studies, if they said 5%?"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":701.95,"endTime":708.7,"body":"Are what's the word that they"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":708.7,"endTime":716.32,"body":"used, purer than fewer than 5%?"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":708.7,"endTime":716.32,"body":"past a validity screening for an"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":716.35,"endTime":722.59,"body":"evidence based journal? What"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":716.35,"endTime":722.59,"body":"does that mean? Help me out."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":723.25,"endTime":725.62,"body":"Yeah, so what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":723.25,"endTime":725.62,"body":"they did in the study that, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":725.62,"endTime":729.52,"body":"know, this paper is referencing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":725.62,"endTime":729.52,"body":"is, basically they had eight"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":729.52,"endTime":737.4100000000001,"body":"criteria that they felt were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":729.52,"endTime":737.4100000000001,"body":"important to judge whether a, a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":737.4100000000001,"endTime":743.14,"body":"piece of clinical research was,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":737.4100000000001,"endTime":743.14,"body":"you know, useful was going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":743.14,"endTime":747.49,"body":"useful. And real quickly, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":743.14,"endTime":747.49,"body":"know, those eight problems, they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":747.49,"endTime":752.47,"body":"say, were that, first of all, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":747.49,"endTime":752.47,"body":"requires the existence of a real"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":752.47,"endTime":757.69,"body":"problem to address that is then"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":752.47,"endTime":757.69,"body":"placed in the proper context,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":758.71,"endTime":762.73,"body":"that there is sufficient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":758.71,"endTime":762.73,"body":"information from the research,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":763.9300000000001,"endTime":767.2,"body":"the research should be patient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":763.9300000000001,"endTime":767.2,"body":"centered, it should be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":767.2,"endTime":773.5,"body":"pragmatic, it should provide"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":767.2,"endTime":773.5,"body":"reasonable value for money, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":773.5,"endTime":777.07,"body":"should not be futile, and that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":773.5,"endTime":777.07,"body":"the research should be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":777.07,"endTime":780.49,"body":"transparent. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":777.07,"endTime":780.49,"body":"someone listening to that, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":780.49,"endTime":783.85,"body":"think, certainly, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":780.49,"endTime":783.85,"body":"myself, as a physician, would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":783.85,"endTime":787.72,"body":"say, those seem like, pretty"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":783.85,"endTime":787.72,"body":"good criteria for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":787.84,"endTime":792.1600000000001,"body":"what I should then translate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":787.84,"endTime":792.1600000000001,"body":"into the care of my patients."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":793.0300000000001,"endTime":796.33,"body":"But again, when they looked at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":793.0300000000001,"endTime":796.33,"body":"over 60,000 studies that had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":796.33,"endTime":802.9300000000001,"body":"been published, fewer than 5% of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":796.33,"endTime":802.9300000000001,"body":"those, basically, could, could"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":802.9300000000001,"endTime":808.8100000000001,"body":"meet at least six of the eight"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":802.9300000000001,"endTime":808.8100000000001,"body":"criteria that they that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":808.84,"endTime":814.45,"body":"just outlined. So basically, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":808.84,"endTime":814.45,"body":"know, again, one out of 20"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":814.45,"endTime":819.5500000000001,"body":"studies is actually going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":814.45,"endTime":819.5500000000001,"body":"useful. But these all balled 20"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":819.5500000000001,"endTime":823.5400000000001,"body":"ended up getting published. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":819.5500000000001,"endTime":823.5400000000001,"body":"you know, as, as a physician"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":823.5400000000001,"endTime":826.63,"body":"who's trying to stay up to date,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":823.5400000000001,"endTime":826.63,"body":"and he's flipping through his,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":826.6600000000001,"endTime":830.4100000000001,"body":"you know, he's reading his"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":826.6600000000001,"endTime":830.4100000000001,"body":"journals every month, which, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":830.4100000000001,"endTime":835.0300000000001,"body":"know, is a very time consuming"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":830.4100000000001,"endTime":835.0300000000001,"body":"effort. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":835.24,"endTime":839.11,"body":"basically, you can imagine that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":835.24,"endTime":839.11,"body":"I would say, the average"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":839.11,"endTime":843.49,"body":"journal, you know, the ones that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":839.11,"endTime":843.49,"body":"I read, that say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":843.52,"endTime":849.22,"body":"contain somewhere between 30 to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":843.52,"endTime":849.22,"body":"40. Public, you know, 30 to 40"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":849.22,"endTime":854.2,"body":"studies are in each issue of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":849.22,"endTime":854.2,"body":"that journal. And not all of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":854.2,"endTime":857.02,"body":"them are going to be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":854.2,"endTime":857.02,"body":"clinical research, but, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":857.02,"endTime":862.51,"body":"know, there, the chances are in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":857.02,"endTime":862.51,"body":"each journal that I go through,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":863.11,"endTime":867.7,"body":"there may be one actual useful,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":863.11,"endTime":867.7,"body":"you know, high quality study,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":868.0,"endTime":871.09,"body":"and oftentimes, there isn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":868.0,"endTime":871.09,"body":"going to be any useful high"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":871.09,"endTime":875.38,"body":"quality studies, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":871.09,"endTime":875.38,"body":"that entire issue of a journal."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":875.4100000000001,"endTime":879.49,"body":"So, this is a big problem for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":875.4100000000001,"endTime":879.49,"body":"practicing physicians. And as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":879.49,"endTime":883.12,"body":"we're going to talk about in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":879.49,"endTime":883.12,"body":"next problem, most physicians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":883.12,"endTime":889.51,"body":"aren't even aware of that. They"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":883.12,"endTime":889.51,"body":"assume that, because that study"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":889.5400000000001,"endTime":893.77,"body":"made it into the journal, it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":889.5400000000001,"endTime":893.77,"body":"been properly vetted by the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":894.34,"endTime":898.0,"body":"author by the editors of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":894.34,"endTime":898.0,"body":"journal, right, so that it is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":898.0,"endTime":901.12,"body":"high quality study, and we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":898.0,"endTime":901.12,"body":"should pay attention to it. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":901.12,"endTime":904.48,"body":"as we're going to discuss as we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":901.12,"endTime":904.48,"body":"move along, that oftentimes is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":904.48,"endTime":905.35,"body":"not the case."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":906.59,"endTime":910.4300000000001,"body":"Well, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":906.59,"endTime":910.4300000000001,"body":"may be a little bit of inside"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":910.4300000000001,"endTime":915.11,"body":"baseball here, but - maybe not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":910.4300000000001,"endTime":915.11,"body":"as an outsider, as just a lay"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":915.11,"endTime":923.12,"body":"person who's a consumer of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":915.11,"endTime":923.12,"body":"medical services - I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":923.12,"endTime":929.4200000000001,"body":"not unusual. I assume, by and"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":923.12,"endTime":929.4200000000001,"body":"large, my physicians are using"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":929.4200000000001,"endTime":934.76,"body":"the best information available."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":929.4200000000001,"endTime":934.76,"body":"And I understand that it might"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":934.76,"endTime":939.77,"body":"not be right. But I've always"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":934.76,"endTime":939.77,"body":"assumed that they're using the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":939.77,"endTime":945.2,"body":"best information available and"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":939.77,"endTime":945.2,"body":"that there is a system in place"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":945.74,"endTime":950.84,"body":"a series of processes that have"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":945.74,"endTime":950.84,"body":"been refined over - I just would"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":950.84,"endTime":957.83,"body":"have assumed - hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":950.84,"endTime":957.83,"body":"years. So that the the beliefs,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":957.83,"endTime":962.1500000000001,"body":"the techniques, the methods, the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":957.83,"endTime":962.1500000000001,"body":"treatments that the doctors are"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":962.1500000000001,"endTime":971.27,"body":"using and and recommending have"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":962.1500000000001,"endTime":971.27,"body":"been vetted for these six or"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":971.27,"endTime":975.86,"body":"eight things that you just"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":971.27,"endTime":975.86,"body":"listed, that somebody has gone"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":975.86,"endTime":982.61,"body":"through and said \"oh yeah, these"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":975.86,"endTime":982.61,"body":"things are 1. placed in the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":982.61,"endTime":985.88,"body":"proper context 2. solves a real"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":982.61,"endTime":985.88,"body":"problem as sufficient"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":985.9100000000001,"endTime":988.07,"body":"information gained 3. is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":985.9100000000001,"endTime":988.07,"body":"centered on the patient's well"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":988.07,"endTime":992.12,"body":"being 4. is pragmatic 5. has a"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":988.07,"endTime":992.12,"body":"reasonable value for money 6."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":992.3000000000001,"endTime":995.9300000000001,"body":"isn't futile and oh, by the way,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":992.3000000000001,"endTime":995.9300000000001,"body":"and 7. our methodology for"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":996.38,"endTime":1000.13,"body":"evaluating this is transparent."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":996.38,"endTime":1000.13,"body":"We're not hiding anything. I've"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1000.13,"endTime":1006.0400000000001,"body":"always assumed that that's going"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1000.13,"endTime":1006.0400000000001,"body":"on. And if it wasn't, I would"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1006.0400000000001,"endTime":1011.8000000000001,"body":"have assumed a reasonably"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1006.0400000000001,"endTime":1011.8000000000001,"body":"competent doctor would know"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1011.8000000000001,"endTime":1016.99,"body":"that. But it sounds like I'm"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1011.8000000000001,"endTime":1016.99,"body":"wrong. And I don't want to sound"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1016.99,"endTime":1025.15,"body":"Pollyanna here, but this is -"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1016.99,"endTime":1025.15,"body":"it's a little alarming. It's"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1025.15,"endTime":1026.5,"body":"very, very alarming."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1028.8100000000002,"endTime":1030.8200000000002,"body":"Yeah, I agree"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1028.8100000000002,"endTime":1030.8200000000002,"body":"with you. I think it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1030.8200000000002,"endTime":1034.8400000000001,"body":"alarming. And, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1030.8200000000002,"endTime":1034.8400000000001,"body":"first part of your statement was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1034.8400000000001,"endTime":1039.94,"body":"that physicians are using the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1034.8400000000001,"endTime":1039.94,"body":"best available tools, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1039.94,"endTime":1043.93,"body":"resources that they have. And I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1039.94,"endTime":1043.93,"body":"think that's probably true."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1044.8300000000002,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"These are the best available"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1044.8300000000002,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"resources, you know, the, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1048.5800000000002,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"medical journals, especially,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1048.5800000000002,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"you know, what are considered"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1051.46,"endTime":1055.1200000000001,"body":"the sort of high impact, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1051.46,"endTime":1055.1200000000001,"body":"know, medical journals with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1055.1200000000001,"endTime":1058.66,"body":"best, you know, reputations"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1055.1200000000001,"endTime":1058.66,"body":"behind them, probably are the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1058.66,"endTime":1064.15,"body":"best tools that we have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1058.66,"endTime":1064.15,"body":"available to us. In keeping up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1064.21,"endTime":1068.6200000000001,"body":"with new developments in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1064.21,"endTime":1068.6200000000001,"body":"medicine, unfortunately, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1068.6200000000001,"endTime":1074.2,"body":"what this paper is showing is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1068.6200000000001,"endTime":1074.2,"body":"that those tools, despite being"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1074.2,"endTime":1078.6100000000001,"body":"the best ones available to us"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1074.2,"endTime":1078.6100000000001,"body":"are not very good tools. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1078.64,"endTime":1083.29,"body":"you know, this, I think, is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1078.64,"endTime":1083.29,"body":"another important piece of what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1083.32,"endTime":1088.66,"body":"we've been discussing in this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1083.32,"endTime":1088.66,"body":"podcast. about the ways that the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1089.32,"endTime":1092.41,"body":"system is broken, the health"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1089.32,"endTime":1092.41,"body":"care system is broken."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1096.28,"endTime":1100.3899999999999,"body":"This particular"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1096.28,"endTime":1100.3899999999999,"body":"episode is the least optimistic"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1100.3899999999999,"endTime":1107.05,"body":"one I think we've done. And I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1100.3899999999999,"endTime":1107.05,"body":"don't like that, because I am by"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1107.05,"endTime":1116.08,"body":"nature, an optimist. So I see a"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1107.05,"endTime":1116.08,"body":"problem. And the first thing I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1116.08,"endTime":1119.29,"body":"want to do is, is say, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1116.08,"endTime":1119.29,"body":"well, how do we solve this? But"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1119.29,"endTime":1122.71,"body":"maybe it's too early, maybe we"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1119.29,"endTime":1122.71,"body":"need to really settle into what"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1122.71,"endTime":1126.3700000000001,"body":"the full extent of the problem"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1122.71,"endTime":1126.3700000000001,"body":"is. But if you've got ideas"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1126.3700000000001,"endTime":1135.43,"body":"here, for how an average Joe"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1126.3700000000001,"endTime":1135.43,"body":"like me can navigate inside a"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1135.43,"endTime":1141.22,"body":"medical system that we're"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1135.43,"endTime":1141.22,"body":"suddenly finding out is deeply"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1141.22,"endTime":1144.22,"body":"unreliable, I would sure like to"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1141.22,"endTime":1144.22,"body":"hear."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1146.5900000000001,"endTime":1149.08,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1146.5900000000001,"endTime":1149.08,"body":"think, you know, as we go"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1149.08,"endTime":1151.18,"body":"through this discussion,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1149.08,"endTime":1151.18,"body":"hopefully, we'll come up with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1151.18,"endTime":1154.6000000000001,"body":"some, you know, possible"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1151.18,"endTime":1154.6000000000001,"body":"solutions. And towards the end"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1154.6000000000001,"endTime":1157.66,"body":"of this paper, they kind of talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1154.6000000000001,"endTime":1157.66,"body":"about, you know, maybe some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1157.66,"endTime":1163.3600000000001,"body":"possibilities, I think the most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1157.66,"endTime":1163.3600000000001,"body":"important thing is something"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1163.3600000000001,"endTime":1167.02,"body":"that we, you know, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1163.3600000000001,"endTime":1167.02,"body":"about on this podcast before,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1167.32,"endTime":1172.39,"body":"and that is that people do need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1167.32,"endTime":1172.39,"body":"to have a healthy skepticism, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1172.39,"endTime":1176.3500000000001,"body":"they, you know, approach the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1172.39,"endTime":1176.3500000000001,"body":"medical system. Yeah. And as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1176.3500000000001,"endTime":1181.78,"body":"they, you know, discuss things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1176.3500000000001,"endTime":1181.78,"body":"with their physicians. They need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1181.78,"endTime":1189.3400000000001,"body":"to, as I've advocated, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1181.78,"endTime":1189.3400000000001,"body":"they need to be proactive about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1189.3400000000001,"endTime":1192.8500000000001,"body":"their health. Yeah, they need to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1189.3400000000001,"endTime":1192.8500000000001,"body":"be proactive about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1193.72,"endTime":1200.1100000000001,"body":"talking to their physicians,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1193.72,"endTime":1200.1100000000001,"body":"about the kind of data that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1200.1100000000001,"endTime":1203.29,"body":"behind the, you know, whatever"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1200.1100000000001,"endTime":1203.29,"body":"treatment it might be, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1203.29,"endTime":1206.1100000000001,"body":"their physician is, is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1203.29,"endTime":1206.1100000000001,"body":"advocating for them."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1206.71,"endTime":1212.77,"body":"And that reminds me"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1206.71,"endTime":1212.77,"body":"of all these, these ads on TV"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1212.77,"endTime":1216.16,"body":"from the pharmaceutical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1212.77,"endTime":1216.16,"body":"companies, where they will"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1216.16,"endTime":1221.53,"body":"usually say talk to your doctor,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1216.16,"endTime":1221.53,"body":"bla, bla, bla, bla bla. And with"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1221.53,"endTime":1224.41,"body":"the implication being that your"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1221.53,"endTime":1224.41,"body":"doctor is going to be an expert."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1225.28,"endTime":1231.73,"body":"And, and what I'm seeing"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1225.28,"endTime":1231.73,"body":"reported here is, not only is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1231.73,"endTime":1237.28,"body":"your doctor not an expert, which"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1231.73,"endTime":1237.28,"body":"is bad enough, your doctor"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1245.74,"body":"probably doesn't know he's not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1245.74,"body":"an expert. He thinks he's got"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1246.04,"endTime":1251.41,"body":"good information. And in fact,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1246.04,"endTime":1251.41,"body":"the information he's got is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1251.41,"endTime":1257.41,"body":"probably at best, of very low"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1251.41,"endTime":1257.41,"body":"quality and quite possibly"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1257.41,"endTime":1265.54,"body":"wrong. Ah, okay. Problem. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1257.41,"endTime":1265.54,"body":"go ahead. Lead."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1265.75,"endTime":1267.73,"body":"I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1265.75,"endTime":1267.73,"body":"say I think that leads us into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1267.73,"endTime":1269.26,"body":"problem two very well."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1270.76,"endTime":1273.94,"body":"Problem two, most"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1270.76,"endTime":1273.94,"body":"healthcare professionals are not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1273.94,"endTime":1279.67,"body":"aware of this problem of low"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1273.94,"endTime":1279.67,"body":"value publications, low quality"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1279.67,"endTime":1289.33,"body":"publications. Why? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1279.67,"endTime":1289.33,"body":"obviously time, but that's not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1289.33,"endTime":1294.16,"body":"new. You know, For as long as"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1289.33,"endTime":1294.16,"body":"we've had human beings, we've"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1294.16,"endTime":1296.8600000000001,"body":"had 168 hours a week. So what's"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1294.16,"endTime":1296.8600000000001,"body":"the deal?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1298.8400000000001,"endTime":1303.3400000000001,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1298.8400000000001,"endTime":1303.3400000000001,"body":"think, you know, this echoes a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1303.3400000000001,"endTime":1308.05,"body":"problem that's, you know, common"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1303.3400000000001,"endTime":1308.05,"body":"throughout society today. So,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1308.08,"endTime":1313.3600000000001,"body":"you know, many of us, sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1308.08,"endTime":1313.3600000000001,"body":"grew up and still exist today, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1313.3600000000001,"endTime":1317.08,"body":"would say, you know, hearing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1313.3600000000001,"endTime":1317.08,"body":"that, for instance, the New York"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1317.08,"endTime":1321.79,"body":"Times is the, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1317.08,"endTime":1321.79,"body":"newspaper of record. And, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1321.79,"endTime":1326.08,"body":"know, oftentimes, we see that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1321.79,"endTime":1326.08,"body":"that's not the case, and that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1326.08,"endTime":1330.13,"body":"you know, their reporting can be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1326.08,"endTime":1330.13,"body":"inaccurate. And in the same way,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1330.13,"endTime":1333.46,"body":"in the healthcare industry, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1330.13,"endTime":1333.46,"body":"know, as physicians, we are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1333.6100000000001,"endTime":1337.1200000000001,"body":"taught that, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1333.6100000000001,"endTime":1337.1200000000001,"body":"medical journals are sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1337.1200000000001,"endTime":1346.18,"body":"the, you know, the record, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1337.1200000000001,"endTime":1346.18,"body":"they need to be trusted. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1346.18,"endTime":1349.39,"body":"you know, certain journals, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1346.18,"endTime":1349.39,"body":"know, we do have sort of ranking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1349.39,"endTime":1352.6000000000001,"body":"systems for journals, I guess, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1349.39,"endTime":1352.6000000000001,"body":"would say, and I think many"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1352.6000000000001,"endTime":1359.1100000000001,"body":"physicians, you know, sort of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1352.6000000000001,"endTime":1359.1100000000001,"body":"know which journals are the most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1359.38,"endTime":1363.49,"body":"reputable ones, and which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1359.38,"endTime":1363.49,"body":"journals might not be as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1363.49,"endTime":1367.42,"body":"reputable, right. But even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1363.49,"endTime":1367.42,"body":"within that hierarchy, we see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1367.42,"endTime":1372.6100000000001,"body":"problems. There was a very, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1367.42,"endTime":1372.6100000000001,"body":"know, a recent example, where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1373.0,"endTime":1377.26,"body":"one of the probably, I would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1373.0,"endTime":1377.26,"body":"say, the world's most preeminent"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1377.26,"endTime":1382.57,"body":"Medical Journal, The Lancet,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1377.26,"endTime":1382.57,"body":"published a study that was shown"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1382.57,"endTime":1386.56,"body":"to be completely falsified, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1382.57,"endTime":1386.56,"body":"know, shortly after it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1386.56,"endTime":1394.54,"body":"published. And, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1386.56,"endTime":1394.54,"body":"have to really start to question"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1394.54,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"when you see something like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1394.54,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"that, as a physician, hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1397.27,"endTime":1400.8400000000001,"body":"you start to question, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1397.27,"endTime":1400.8400000000001,"body":"what is going on here? You know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1400.8400000000001,"endTime":1405.67,"body":"how did a study such as this,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1400.8400000000001,"endTime":1405.67,"body":"that was, you know, felt to be a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1405.67,"endTime":1409.66,"body":"very important contribution to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1405.67,"endTime":1409.66,"body":"the, you know, medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1409.66,"endTime":1413.3500000000001,"body":"literature on a hot topic? How"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1409.66,"endTime":1413.3500000000001,"body":"did that make it through the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1413.3500000000001,"endTime":1418.54,"body":"whole review process that these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1413.3500000000001,"endTime":1418.54,"body":"journals have in place? When it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1418.54,"endTime":1422.38,"body":"was, you know, not a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1418.54,"endTime":1422.38,"body":"wrong, it was found to be a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1422.38,"endTime":1428.1100000000001,"body":"completely fabricated study, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1422.38,"endTime":1428.1100000000001,"body":"study, yes, the data behind it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1428.1100000000001,"endTime":1433.69,"body":"was found to be fabricated. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1428.1100000000001,"endTime":1433.69,"body":"somehow this made it through,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1433.72,"endTime":1438.1000000000001,"body":"you know, the review process."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1433.72,"endTime":1438.1000000000001,"body":"And, you know, some very astute"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1440.05,"endTime":1444.55,"body":"clinicians, you know, looked at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1440.05,"endTime":1444.55,"body":"the data that was published in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1444.55,"endTime":1447.31,"body":"that study, and something just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1444.55,"endTime":1447.31,"body":"didn't seem right. And they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1447.31,"endTime":1450.88,"body":"started poking around. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1447.31,"endTime":1450.88,"body":"ultimately, as I said, it was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1450.88,"endTime":1454.21,"body":"determined that the data behind"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1450.88,"endTime":1454.21,"body":"the study was was fabricated."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1458.44,"body":"But, you know, that made it into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1458.44,"body":"the top medical journal in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1458.44,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"world. And I would say, there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1458.44,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"a pretty good chance that if I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1465.19,"endTime":1469.93,"body":"surveyed 100, random physicians,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1465.19,"endTime":1469.93,"body":"most of them would not even be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1469.93,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"aware that this had happened."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1469.93,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"So, you know, this is the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1477.19,"body":"problem that we're running into."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1477.19,"body":"They talk about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1477.19,"endTime":1481.21,"body":"again, in the paper, they talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1477.19,"endTime":1481.21,"body":"about journal reading habits of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1481.8700000000001,"endTime":1487.33,"body":"physicians. And, importantly,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1481.8700000000001,"endTime":1487.33,"body":"you know, the study that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1487.33,"endTime":1491.98,"body":"reference looked at physicians"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1487.33,"endTime":1491.98,"body":"who had kind of gone through an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1492.01,"endTime":1496.57,"body":"extra training program, it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1492.01,"endTime":1496.57,"body":"called the Robert Wood Johnson,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1496.8700000000001,"endTime":1500.05,"body":"Clinical Scholars Program. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1496.8700000000001,"endTime":1500.05,"body":"these are physicians who, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1500.05,"endTime":1503.65,"body":"know, had gone above and beyond"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1500.05,"endTime":1503.65,"body":"just their usual medical school"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1503.65,"endTime":1508.21,"body":"and training to really, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1503.65,"endTime":1508.21,"body":"know, understand how to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1508.21,"endTime":1514.57,"body":"interpret the medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1508.21,"endTime":1514.57,"body":"literature. And in that study,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1515.23,"endTime":1519.88,"body":"most of the physicians admitted"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1515.23,"endTime":1519.88,"body":"that they usually didn't read,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1520.27,"endTime":1525.43,"body":"you know, the full article, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1520.27,"endTime":1525.43,"body":"they oftentimes will rely on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1525.43,"endTime":1528.31,"body":"just the abstract of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1525.43,"endTime":1528.31,"body":"articles as they're going"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1528.31,"endTime":1532.27,"body":"through things, and that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1528.31,"endTime":1532.27,"body":"relied on the editors of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1532.27,"endTime":1538.3,"body":"journals to assure, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1532.27,"endTime":1538.3,"body":"the study quality. And as we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1538.3,"endTime":1543.43,"body":"talked about, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1538.3,"endTime":1543.43,"body":"last section, that trust in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1543.43,"endTime":1547.78,"body":"editors of the journal is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1543.43,"endTime":1547.78,"body":"probably, you know, misplaced."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1549.19,"endTime":1550.03,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1552.97,"endTime":1559.21,"body":"Okay, so, I remember"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1552.97,"endTime":1559.21,"body":"back when I was a programmer, I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1559.21,"endTime":1563.92,"body":"subscribed to a journal that was"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1559.21,"endTime":1563.92,"body":"specifically for folks who who"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1564.04,"endTime":1568.3600000000001,"body":"use the particular tool that I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1564.04,"endTime":1568.3600000000001,"body":"used, and I eagerly look forward"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1568.3600000000001,"endTime":1574.3600000000001,"body":"to that because it would"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1568.3600000000001,"endTime":1574.3600000000001,"body":"typically almost every issue"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1574.99,"endTime":1583.21,"body":"would have a problem that I had"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1574.99,"endTime":1583.21,"body":"run into, and a solution and you"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1583.21,"endTime":1586.9,"body":"know, the cool thing about about"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1583.21,"endTime":1586.9,"body":"programming about working with a"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1586.9,"endTime":1590.29,"body":"computer if somebody says I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1586.9,"endTime":1590.29,"body":"here's a problem, and here's a"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1590.29,"endTime":1593.95,"body":"solution, you can do it"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1590.29,"endTime":1593.95,"body":"yourself. And you can see"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1593.95,"endTime":1599.74,"body":"yourself, yes, this solution"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1593.95,"endTime":1599.74,"body":"resolved that particular"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1599.74,"endTime":1605.2,"body":"problem. So, so getting those"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1599.74,"endTime":1605.2,"body":"those journals was, it was a big"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1605.2,"endTime":1612.04,"body":"deal to me. And I generally read"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1605.2,"endTime":1612.04,"body":"every word of every article that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1612.04,"endTime":1617.17,"body":"had any interest to me"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1612.04,"endTime":1617.17,"body":"whatsoever. But these were not"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1617.17,"endTime":1621.4,"body":"huge journals, they would have"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1617.17,"endTime":1621.4,"body":"six, maybe eight articles per"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1621.4,"endTime":1630.1000000000001,"body":"journal per month. I've just"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1621.4,"endTime":1630.1000000000001,"body":"always assumed that doctors do"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1630.1000000000001,"endTime":1634.93,"body":"the same thing. As a programmer,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1630.1000000000001,"endTime":1634.93,"body":"I couldn't just read the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1634.93,"endTime":1638.5,"body":"summary, what would what would"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1634.93,"endTime":1638.5,"body":"be the abstract, because that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1638.5,"endTime":1641.92,"body":"wouldn't give me enough"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1638.5,"endTime":1641.92,"body":"information. I couldn't actually"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1641.92,"endTime":1651.01,"body":"go and prove it myself. And yet"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1641.92,"endTime":1651.01,"body":"this study says, that's not how"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1651.01,"endTime":1666.04,"body":"most of these well trained."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1651.01,"endTime":1666.04,"body":"Physicians read. Okay. It's too"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1666.04,"endTime":1670.57,"body":"early in the morning for me to"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1666.04,"endTime":1670.57,"body":"be this this wound up. I was I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1670.57,"endTime":1673.72,"body":"was looking at something that"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1670.57,"endTime":1673.72,"body":"you highlighted in this, in this"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1673.72,"endTime":1678.3400000000001,"body":"article you sent to me here"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1673.72,"endTime":1678.3400000000001,"body":"under problem two, it said"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1684.7,"body":"nearly half of the abstracts of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1684.7,"body":"randomized controlled trials"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1685.54,"endTime":1692.3500000000001,"body":"contained biased reporting of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1685.54,"endTime":1692.3500000000001,"body":"study results, implying benefit"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1692.3500000000001,"endTime":1696.22,"body":"when there was no significant"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1692.3500000000001,"endTime":1696.22,"body":"significant, no statistically"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1696.22,"endTime":1701.3500000000001,"body":"significant difference in the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1696.22,"endTime":1701.3500000000001,"body":"primary endpoint between study"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1701.65,"endTime":1707.32,"body":"arms. Would you would you"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1701.65,"endTime":1707.32,"body":"explain that in English?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1708.19,"endTime":1711.58,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1708.19,"endTime":1711.58,"body":"basically, what this is saying,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1716.83,"body":"and I will admit, I find this to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1716.83,"body":"be true is that, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1716.83,"endTime":1720.16,"body":"you look at the abstract, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1716.83,"endTime":1720.16,"body":"published, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1720.16,"endTime":1727.1200000000001,"body":"summary of an article, it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1720.16,"endTime":1727.1200000000001,"body":"oftentimes will word things in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1727.1200000000001,"endTime":1732.1000000000001,"body":"such a way that imply, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1727.1200000000001,"endTime":1732.1000000000001,"body":"that there might be some finding"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1732.1000000000001,"endTime":1735.79,"body":"some effect of whatever they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1732.1000000000001,"endTime":1735.79,"body":"were studying, that isn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1735.79,"endTime":1742.24,"body":"actually supported by the data"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1735.79,"endTime":1742.24,"body":"within that study. And, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1742.24,"endTime":1746.14,"body":"know, this, again, is something"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1742.24,"endTime":1746.14,"body":"I oftentimes, you'll see, as I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1746.14,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"going through the medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1746.14,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"literature, around nutrition, or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1750.01,"endTime":1754.72,"body":"around heart disease, and some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1750.01,"endTime":1754.72,"body":"of the, you know, interventions"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1754.72,"endTime":1761.65,"body":"around heart disease, where, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1754.72,"endTime":1761.65,"body":"know, the paper just won't show"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1761.68,"endTime":1766.54,"body":"and, you know, whatever, study,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1761.68,"endTime":1766.54,"body":"whatever the author's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1766.54,"endTime":1771.25,"body":"of the, of the study, we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1766.54,"endTime":1771.25,"body":"trying to show, the data might"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1771.25,"endTime":1775.54,"body":"not support that, but in an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1771.25,"endTime":1775.54,"body":"effort to basically, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1775.57,"endTime":1778.72,"body":"make the paper look more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1775.57,"endTime":1778.72,"body":"important, get it published,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1779.56,"endTime":1784.99,"body":"they will kind of word things in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1779.56,"endTime":1784.99,"body":"such a way that imply that there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1784.99,"endTime":1788.8,"body":"is an effect when there isn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1784.99,"endTime":1788.8,"body":"one. And, you know, this becomes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1788.8,"endTime":1793.15,"body":"a problem when, if you're only"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1788.8,"endTime":1793.15,"body":"reading the abstract of a paper,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1793.81,"endTime":1798.91,"body":"and you might not realize that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1793.81,"endTime":1798.91,"body":"and then what happens is, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1798.91,"endTime":1803.2,"body":"they go into this as well, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1798.91,"endTime":1803.2,"body":"problem can then get magnified."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1803.71,"endTime":1809.47,"body":"Because one of the tools that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1803.71,"endTime":1809.47,"body":"oftentimes used in medicine is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1810.49,"endTime":1816.19,"body":"his, what's called a review"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1810.49,"endTime":1816.19,"body":"paper, a systemic systematic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1816.19,"endTime":1819.97,"body":"review paper, okay, where you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1816.19,"endTime":1819.97,"body":"know, someone is interested in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1819.97,"endTime":1824.77,"body":"topic. And so they'll go back"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1819.97,"endTime":1824.77,"body":"through all the studies that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1824.77,"endTime":1827.47,"body":"have been published on this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1824.77,"endTime":1827.47,"body":"topic, and they'll try and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1827.47,"endTime":1831.6100000000001,"body":"combine them and summarize them."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1827.47,"endTime":1831.6100000000001,"body":"And, you know, see what the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1831.6100000000001,"endTime":1834.58,"body":"effect is. Because sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1831.6100000000001,"endTime":1834.58,"body":"you know, one of the issues we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1834.58,"endTime":1839.44,"body":"run into in medicine, is running"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1834.58,"endTime":1839.44,"body":"large trials, you know, that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1839.44,"endTime":1844.72,"body":"necessary to show some of these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1839.44,"endTime":1844.72,"body":"benefits may not be possible. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1844.75,"endTime":1848.53,"body":"sometimes we only have a bunch"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1844.75,"endTime":1848.53,"body":"of small studies. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1848.53,"endTime":1851.56,"body":"you're trying to combine those"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1848.53,"endTime":1851.56,"body":"that try and figure out the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1851.56,"endTime":1855.88,"body":"effects of certain things. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1851.56,"endTime":1855.88,"body":"oftentimes, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1855.91,"endTime":1859.8400000000001,"body":"authors of those review papers"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1855.91,"endTime":1859.8400000000001,"body":"will only be looking at the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1859.8400000000001,"endTime":1863.38,"body":"abstract of the papers that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1859.8400000000001,"endTime":1863.38,"body":"are reviewing. And they'll say,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1863.38,"endTime":1867.79,"body":"this paper showed this effect"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1863.38,"endTime":1867.79,"body":"based on what the abstract says,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1867.82,"endTime":1872.08,"body":"and it may not show that effect."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1867.82,"endTime":1872.08,"body":"So then you start to combine"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1872.08,"endTime":1876.25,"body":"these things and these problems"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1872.08,"endTime":1876.25,"body":"get magnified even more. Wow."},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1876.25,"endTime":1879.8500000000001,"body":"And again, it's a it's a huge,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1876.25,"endTime":1879.8500000000001,"body":"it's a huge problem in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1879.8500000000001,"endTime":1884.32,"body":"healthcare, in the healthcare"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1879.8500000000001,"endTime":1884.32,"body":"literature. And I think it just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1884.32,"endTime":1887.23,"body":"goes back to the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1884.32,"endTime":1887.23,"body":"know, physicians oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1887.23,"endTime":1892.93,"body":"don't have the time necessary to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1887.23,"endTime":1892.93,"body":"properly go through literature,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1896.5,"body":"you know, physicians don't get"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1896.5,"body":"paid for reading medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1896.5,"endTime":1900.19,"body":"literature, they get paid for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1896.5,"endTime":1900.19,"body":"taking care of patients. And,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1900.22,"endTime":1902.95,"body":"you know, reading the medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1900.22,"endTime":1902.95,"body":"literature to be able to do that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1902.95,"endTime":1906.94,"body":"effectively, is something that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1902.95,"endTime":1906.94,"body":"oftentimes they then have to,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1912.52,"body":"you know, do on their own, after"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1912.52,"body":"hours, and all that, so, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1912.52,"endTime":1915.43,"body":"then there's just such a high"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1912.52,"endTime":1915.43,"body":"volume of medical literature"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1915.43,"endTime":1919.27,"body":"published these days, that, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1915.43,"endTime":1919.27,"body":"know, most physicians only have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1919.27,"endTime":1923.17,"body":"time to skim through some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1919.27,"endTime":1923.17,"body":"abstracts. And, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1923.2,"endTime":1925.21,"body":"maybe there'll be one or two"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1923.2,"endTime":1925.21,"body":"articles that they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1925.21,"endTime":1928.8400000000001,"body":"particularly interested in that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1925.21,"endTime":1928.8400000000001,"body":"they'll read in more detail. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":1928.8400000000001,"endTime":1930.76,"body":"for the most part, they don't."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1933.4,"endTime":1940.69,"body":"Ah, you know, our"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1933.4,"endTime":1940.69,"body":"conversations have been..."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1940.72,"endTime":1947.08,"body":"disruptive. They've delivered"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1940.72,"endTime":1947.08,"body":"information that has allowed me"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1952.54,"body":"to make decisions primarily for"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1952.54,"body":"me about what I put in my mouth,"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1952.9,"endTime":1957.82,"body":"but also about exercise as well."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1952.9,"endTime":1957.82,"body":"You know, it's given me concrete"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1957.82,"endTime":1969.4,"body":"things I can do. This paper, the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1957.82,"endTime":1969.4,"body":"effect of reading this paper on"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1969.4,"endTime":1977.77,"body":"me, has been to become deeply"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1969.4,"endTime":1977.77,"body":"distrustful of all medical"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1977.77,"endTime":1983.74,"body":"information. Now, that may be an"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1977.77,"endTime":1983.74,"body":"overreaction. But if if only"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1983.74,"endTime":1988.9,"body":"five out of 100 studies pass"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1983.74,"endTime":1988.9,"body":"these, these high quality"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1989.6200000000001,"endTime":1994.03,"body":"standards, then it's not an I"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1989.6200000000001,"endTime":1994.03,"body":"don't think it's unreasonable of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1994.03,"endTime":2003.51,"body":"me to, to assume that 95% of"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":1994.03,"endTime":2003.51,"body":"what I'm hearing is based on bad"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2003.66,"endTime":2007.65,"body":"bad studies, poorly, poorly"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2003.66,"endTime":2007.65,"body":"structured, poorly written or"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2007.65,"endTime":2013.05,"body":"worse, falsified results. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2015.78,"endTime":2019.29,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2015.78,"endTime":2019.29,"body":"honestly, I think that was the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2019.89,"endTime":2024.9,"body":"what the authors of this paper"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2019.89,"endTime":2024.9,"body":"were trying to do, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2024.9,"endTime":2028.65,"body":"think that they are trying to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2024.9,"endTime":2028.65,"body":"get physicians to have that same"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2028.65,"endTime":2032.52,"body":"attitude. Because honestly, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2028.65,"endTime":2032.52,"body":"is the attitude that we need to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2032.52,"endTime":2036.78,"body":"have, as physicians, we should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2032.52,"endTime":2036.78,"body":"be largely mistrustful of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2036.78,"endTime":2041.49,"body":"information that's being put out"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2036.78,"endTime":2041.49,"body":"in front of us. And by doing so,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2041.6100000000001,"endTime":2046.92,"body":"it's going to allow us to figure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2041.6100000000001,"endTime":2046.92,"body":"out, you know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2046.92,"endTime":2050.04,"body":"information that we should be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2046.92,"endTime":2050.04,"body":"trusting, because there is that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2050.04,"endTime":2054.1800000000003,"body":"one in 20 paper that is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2050.04,"endTime":2054.1800000000003,"body":"actually, you know, useful"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2054.1800000000003,"endTime":2057.8700000000003,"body":"information that we should then"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2054.1800000000003,"endTime":2057.8700000000003,"body":"put into practice. But the only"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2057.8700000000003,"endTime":2061.83,"body":"way we're going to figure that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2057.8700000000003,"endTime":2061.83,"body":"out, is if we are mistrustful"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2061.8900000000003,"endTime":2066.57,"body":"going into this process. And we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2061.8900000000003,"endTime":2066.57,"body":"are skeptical about every piece"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2066.57,"endTime":2072.33,"body":"of, you know, research that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2066.57,"endTime":2072.33,"body":"are reading. And we go through"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2072.33,"endTime":2076.17,"body":"this exercise to figure out, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2072.33,"endTime":2076.17,"body":"know, what are the useful pieces"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2076.17,"endTime":2080.4,"body":"of information. And ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2076.17,"endTime":2080.4,"body":"I think the hope of these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2080.4,"endTime":2085.5,"body":"authors is that if more and more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2080.4,"endTime":2085.5,"body":"physicians are doing that, then"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2085.5,"endTime":2088.59,"body":"the journals are going to kind"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2085.5,"endTime":2088.59,"body":"of respond to that. And you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2088.59,"endTime":2093.0,"body":"know, they are also going to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2088.59,"endTime":2093.0,"body":"become more responsible about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2093.0,"endTime":2096.03,"body":"the, the literature that they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Philip Ovadia","startTime":2093.0,"endTime":2096.03,"body":"allow to be published."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2100.38,"endTime":2103.08,"body":"Well, I'll tell you"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2100.38,"endTime":2103.08,"body":"what we've we've, we're 30"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2103.08,"endTime":2105.63,"body":"minutes into here and only"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2103.08,"endTime":2105.63,"body":"halfway through this, why don't"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2105.63,"endTime":2111.96,"body":"we? Why don't we just say part"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2105.63,"endTime":2111.96,"body":"one, and part two is coming up"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2112.3500000000004,"endTime":2116.4900000000002,"body":"in the next episode. So y'all"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2112.3500000000004,"endTime":2116.4900000000002,"body":"tune in for the next one. Is"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2116.4900000000002,"endTime":2120.54,"body":"that okay with you? That sounds"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2116.4900000000002,"endTime":2120.54,"body":"great. All right. Well, for Dr."},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2120.54,"endTime":2123.57,"body":"Philip oveja on Jack Heald. This"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2120.54,"endTime":2123.57,"body":"is the stay off my operating"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2123.57,"endTime":2128.07,"body":"table podcast. We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2123.57,"endTime":2128.07,"body":"finish this conversation on the"},{"speaker":"Jack Heald","startTime":2128.1000000000004,"endTime":2129.03,"body":"next episode."}]}