The Conference Founder Who Thinks Data Isn't the Answer to Wellness - Robin Switzer

Robin Switzer has spent nearly a decade building one of the largest gatherings in metabolic health, watching thousands of people arrive chasing the same thing: a way to feel better. But somewhere between the Oura Rings, the continuous glucose monitors, and the endless lists of things to optimize, something shifted. Dr. Philip Ovadia and Jack Heald sit down with Switzer to talk about that shift, and why the community she built around the ketogenic diet has quietly become something much bigger. They cover what changed after a new administration took aim at food policy, why a DNA test she never expected to believe in turned out to be right, and why the physical experience of being in a room with people pursuing the same goal does something no podcast or YouTube video can replicate. The conversation turns to the people bringing new ideas to this year's event, from visceral fat specialists to electromagnetic frequency experts, and what all of it says about where the wellness movement is actually headed.

BIG IDEA

The most reliable path back to health may not be more tracking, more data, or more devices, but the momentum that comes from being physically surrounded by people committed to the same goal.

Robin Switzer Contact Info
website: hackyourhealth.com
Discount Code “iFixHearts”

WEBSITE: Stay Off My Kitchen Table

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Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings

Any use of this intellectual property for text and data mining or computational analysis including as training material for artificial intelligence systems is strictly prohibited without express written consent from Dr. Philip Ovadia.

Transcript

0:59

Hey folks, it's the Stay Off My Operating Table podcast with Dr. Philip Ovadia. We are joined today by a guest we had, oh, a little over two years ago. It was really cool. I'm looking forward to hearing what's going on new with her, and I'm gonna throw it over to you, Phil. Sounds good. Really excited to have Robin Switzer back with us. Robin runs really one of the premier conferences around metabolic health, Hack Your Health. And it is coming up in November, and really excited to talk about that. And just really the big picture around the metabolic health movement. I think since we last spoke with Robin two years ago, there's been a lot of changes there. Give Robin a chance to reintroduce herself. Yeah. Okay. Yes, my name is Robin Switzer. I own and produce an event called Hack Your Health, which I have been doing since 2017. In those days, the event was branded KetoCon: The Science and Stories of Keto. And in 2022 we decided to rebrand in order to expand the conversation outside of just the ketogenic diet. So Hack Your Health has evolved into a different type of event where we're not only talking about nutrition, but we're exploring all areas of health. And this probably is no coincidence because it co- coincides with my own personal wellness journey. So when I started doing KetoCon, that wa- th- that was a result of me finding, A recovery from a lot of the issues that I had dealt with because I was insulin resistant. So over the years, as my health continued to improve, my curiosity, my desire to understand more about wellness continued to grow, and so it coincided with the rebrand of Hack Your Health. So here we are. We moved the event to Tampa last year, which I know Phil is happy about, so you don't have to travel back to Austin. And we had a good year. It was a little bit bumpy for us, but I've… We've corrected all the issues that we had, so this year is gonna be, It's looking like one of the best events that we've ever done. We spend three days exploring all the different areas of health, me- mental wellness, metabolic health, nutrition, and, whatever's trending in the wellness world, we talk about that as well. This year we have movement classes baked into the agenda, and morning movement classes, and breathwork sessions, and all kinds of fun stuff so that people can really immerse themselves in all different types of activities Yeah. Maybe let's just first talk about, like why do you think what's the value of conferences, right? People, these days they can get all the information without leaving their house. Get on YouTube. There's virtual events, virtual conferences, books, whatever format you like you can get the information. So what do you see as the unique value of conferences in this space? Community. So there's really… Yes, you can watch Dr. Ovadia talk all about he- heart health on YouTube, and you can listen to his podcast, but that's not the same thing as sitting in front of him and listening to him talk, and then watching him walk off stage and going to personally ask him a question. There's nothing like watching, for instance, someone stand on a vibration plate and them saying, "Oh, this feels really good. This is exciting." It's totally different than going and standing on it yourself. And the third thing, which is really the biggest, is community because, we have people that come year after year because they've built relationships at these events, and they come back to see each other every year. It's really hard to, when you're on a health journey, to be on an island by yourself. And if you have community where you feel supported, your chances of success are much greater Yeah, I would certainly echo that. The experiences at these conferences really are amazing and getting to meet people, right? And I can say that both that's how I started, right? I had learnt about the low carb and, read the books and started doing it. But I think it really kicked in, the first conference I went to and I met other people doing it, met other doctors talking about it. But just, met the people. And back then I didn't have a practice, wasn't, public, none of the stuff, no social media or anything like that. I was really there to learn and it's an amazing experience and now being on the other side of it, having the opportunity to educate other people. But to meet all the people, right? It's it's just always been an amazing experience and it really is always a highlight when I can get to these conferences and be a part of that community. And I'll say that these, the conferences around metabolic health and low carb and carnivore and keto and all this stuff biohacking they really are… it is a very welcoming community. It is such a positive environment and- Yeah … the interaction between, the speakers and the attendees and-… And just all the interaction that goes on there is always amazing. Talk about, again, y- like you said, you've been doing this through since 2017 went through COVID period. But just, talk about what's changed over that time and what you've seen around the health movement the biohacking health movement that we're all a part of now. What have you seen change during that time? Well- I'd like to take a little bit of a step back because I think that when we rebranded to and used the word Hack Your Health, we created a perception that we were a biohacking event, and I really… I don't see Hack Your Health as a biohacking event. I really see Hack Your Health as a place where people come to begin a journey, to continue a journey, to optimize, to build momentum in their wellness journeys. So while biohacking is probably a category that we talk about, I don't want people to have the perception that this is a biohacking event. This event is about learning and experiencing, and what's changed in this space is, in 2017 it was all about community, and people were just so excited to be together because when, in 2017 if someone's on a ketogenic diet, most times no one in their family or in their small circle is either. And so in order to they can go to a place where everybody is passionate about the same thing, it lifts you up. And then over the years, as the conversation became a little bit m- more diluted, it was keto, carnivore, just low carb high fat, low carb low fat, all this kind of stuff. People stayed in their buckets. Yeah, it's m- I think a big mistake in this environment is that people look at their diet as a religion, and they use it as a reason to keep themselves separated, in, in separate funnels, separate groups, and I don't see it that way. We don't talk only about the ketogenic diet or the carnivore diet or low carb at our events because it's not the right fit for everybody. Everybody has to find what works best for them, and that's really what we explore here. But what I've seen change, I think most recently, is f- we saw this surge of tech. Wearables. Everything's wearable. Wear your Oura Ring, wear your watch, all the headgear, all this different stuff, and I experience this as well. I call it optimizing fatigue. Yes. Or fatigue optimization. Optimization fatigue. I did too. Optimization fatigue. I remember the experience of looking at my Oura Ring after… i'd wake up in the morning, feel great, I'd look at my Oura Ring, and it said, "Your sleep sucked." And I, "God." I thought I slept pretty good. So I stopped wearing it because of that. I don't wear any trackable devices outside of occasionally I'll wear a a glucose monitor. Continuous glucose monitor? Glucose monitor? Yeah, glucose monitor occasionally just to see how I'm doing. So I think that there, that is a big change, and that people are sick of the, all the t- list of 30 things you have to do to optimize, and people are dialing it back. And I like to see that because I think that finding your own path to wellness doesn't require you wear all these different devices and track all this stuff, so I think that's probably the biggest thing, is the move away from optimizing and moving towards a more balanced approach. Did you see any kind of surge when RFK was named head of the DHS? His Make America Healthy Again movement, as somebody who's been paying attention for years, although certainly not an insider, I personally was thrilled. And I assumed, although I have no, no measurable proof, that simply having someone of his social stature and his credibility advocating for the things that those of us in the metabolic health world have been talking about for years- Sure I had to assume that probably brought a lot more people into a position of interest. I'm just wondering if you s- if h- if and how you've seen that. I haven't really seen more interest that I can equate to that position for him. But, as someone who sits inside this bubble with you guys and watch what happens, within this space I, I think I think he's done amazing work. Outside of the loss that we experienced with glyphosates I feel like they've done a lot of really good work. However, I was thinking about this yesterday, this new foo- food pyramid. I don't know how much people paid attention to the food pyramid before did, do you really think that anybody used the food pyramid personally to determine what they were gonna eat and what they weren't gonna eat? I think it's more… I think that is more for dietary guidelines for restaurants, for hospitals, for… And I do think that's a good thing. I do. I think a lot of good things has, have happened. I do. The conversation has expanded. I think more people are participating in the conversation. Robyn, you and I were talking prior to recording, and you, y- you were saying that simply because you've been through the battles, you've fought some wars, you know that this is a marathon and not a sprint. And I- I think your calling attention to the food pyramid is a perfect example of this. I remember when I was in school, and you and I are roughly the same decade, late 30s, right? And, Class of two. I remember in school the food pyramid was part of health class. Yeah. And when you're a kid, when you're 10, 12, 13 years old, and experts, the adults tell you, "Oh, this is what to do," you absorb it without actually making a conscious decision to do so it was a long, bloody time, well into my adulthood, before I even began questioning that food pyramid. It was a matter of years, in other words, for that to show up either positively or negatively. But I have to believe that this change in the food pyramid, we're certainly not gonna see any society-wide impact right away, but those kids who are like me, who are exposed to this is how to eat are exposed to just smarter guidance from the authorities, from the experts. It's a marathon. It's not- Yeah, definitely… fixed overnight. Or there's really not very many things that can be fixed overnight, is there? In life. Other than- … like changing your diet. But- Yeah. That's- That's a good point. So any, anybody you're excited about having for first time at Hack Your Health? Any presenters? Any, i'm not excited about any of the speakers. No, just kidding. I think she's being sarcastic, folks. Let's see. So somebody that is… Of course I'm excited that Phil is gonna be speaking again, so I can't just omit that. One of the people that we're having this year for the first time is Dr. Sean Omara- Oh, excellent who I am really impressed by his work. I love the fact that he has, he's raised the bar for people my age- And I really think that was, that's something that's been missing for a long time I hadn't thought about it that way. Remind folks I'm a big fan of Shawn as well, but remind folks the core of his message and why it's so important. He is, I think he's 62. 62 years old. In great shape. Sounds about right. Yep. Yeah. In great… He's in great shape. And he, his background is fascinating, all the different things that he's done. But he currently works with very high profile people, celebrities, medical professionals, politicians. And his philosophy is how to look at the body and understand not just how you look on the outside, but how much visceral fat you have and how that's impacting your health, and how to address it, and how it… he has steps and protocols to address it, and he's works with people my age and, he… The last person I think I saw where he was talking about it is a guy that was in his 80s. And so this guy is now fit. His, he's reversed all this visceral fat that he had. He's reversed his exterior, not, what is that called? The fat that's under your skin. The subcutaneous. Yeah, subcutaneous fat. Yeah. And thank you. And this is why we need a physician on the call. And and the guy is thriving. If at 82 someone can turn their health around and be, and start thriving, that gives people that they're in their 60s a lot of hope. And I don't know about you, but I… Jack, I don't know how old you are. So I'm 63. 39. Okay. Me too. And most of my f- friends family, people who are in my age bracket are really slowing down. Yeah. Really slowing down. This, in your 60s, what you did in your 40s and 50s really catch up with you. Yeah. For him to take someone in their 80s and turn around his health markers, it's just fantastic. And of course he is very pro carnivore, and he incorporates fermented vegetables into his protocol to help build the gut microbiome, which you, a lot of people can't do on strictly carnivore. And I thought that was really fascinating. I'm really looking forward to hearing what he has to say Yeah Go ahead, Phil Yeah, no, I was just gonna say that Shawn is always great and it just all the different voices that you're bringing into this conversation, like you said. What I think is unique about Hack Your Health as, that doesn't go on at some of the other conferences is it's really not, like you said, overly focused on one aspect of health. It's really bringing in all the different aspects of health. And there is a diversity of opinions there. It's not a not, a group think. And I think that's good. And I think it's done in a way that's very positive and gives people, the attendees, a chance to really explore all these different concepts around health and figure out what might apply well to them and there- are gonna be some things that won't apply well to everyone. But I think that's what's so great about this. Do you know who… I should know this answer, but I don't. Do you know Doctor his last name is pronounced Jimadeis, I think. He's out of- Yep … Orlando. Yep, cardiologist out of Orlando. Yes. Yeah. He will be speaking this year for the first time. And I have- Awesome … been watching him on YouTube for years. And his direct no-nonsense approach that he r- I think he records when he's teaching, so all this stuff is on YouTube. I just love h- the way that he talks to people. He's, it's no nonsense with him. He's, "This is what has to be done. This is how you have to fast. This is for how long." So I'm excited to have him coming this year as well. Another one is a gentleman by the name of Brian Hoyer, who is an EMF specialist. So he has a company called Shielded Healing, and I'm really… We haven't really talked about this subject at Hack Your Health, about the impacts of EMF. So I'm excited to have him as well. And another- EMS? EMF. EM- oh, electromagnetic frequencies. Okay. Yes. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I've recently become interested in that. That's gonna be a really interesting conversation. He's, he has, Let me think if I can remember. He went, on YouTube he's in Ben- he went to Ben Greenfield's home and fixed his home for all the EMF stuff, and there was a couple of other high-profile people in the wellness industry that he works with. And his company goes all over the country setting up people's homes so that they're not impacted by the EMFs. Oh, gee… fabulous about that It sounds like we need to have him on, Phil. You do. You, yeah. You do. And if you'd like me to s- introduce you, I'd be happy to. That would be cool. Couple of others, mike Chesney. Do you know who Mike Chesney is? He's a ketone researcher, exogenous ketone researcher Oh And he is partnered with a company called Tecton that was at Hack Your Health a couple years ago. Another one of the brands that he works with is going to be there this year called Wisdom, and he knows the deal with e- exogenous ketones, and he's in the thick of the studies and the research. So he'll be speaking this year. Excited about that one, too. That would be a great guest for you as well. Yeah, and I'd ask all kinds of questions about that. Yeah. Then there's another, You won't be familiar with this gentleman. His name is Tariq, and his last name is Adwan. So he owns a company that does DNA testing, and the DNA testing is very easy to do, but they provide you back a report based on your DNA. They make dietary recommendations on what would work best based on your DNA- Ah … which I think is really interesting… interesting. So I didn't, I never have believed in any of that. However- Yeah … I took the test, and I know what works best for me now. Yeah. And it was spot on. Spot on. So I know that DNA isn't a destiny for nutritional stuff, however I do think it could be a really good guide for people who want insight. A really good guide. That I definitely am interested in that, I cannot remember the guy's name, but years ago, like decades ago, there was a doctor who had a thesis that he could guide he could… That your blood type, Yeah … had a great effect on the type of diet that would work for you. I remember that. And I think it's called Eat for Your Type. Yep. His son went into the field, was determined to prove his dad wrong, did the study, and found out, gosh, Pop was right. But it was all blood type based. And then here in my own home we've demonstrated that because the diets that work best for me are basically the, the high fat, medium protein, low or no carb. And my wife has tried eating like me, and it just doesn't work for her the way it does for me. And as it turns out, she and I have two wildly different blood types. So be it ki- And wildly different DNA. It would sc- it would scratch that itch I have to understand the why. Sure. How come? How come I can eat this way and I feel awesome, and she eats this way and she does not? So I love… I dig the science stuff- … behind that. You need to come to Hack Your Health this year. I was gonna say, as someone who's been once, a couple of years ago, I got to go hung out with Phil's team. And most of my history of conferences has been in the tech world. And there's always an energy in the tech world, but it's this, It's a different kind of energy in the conferences. It's real salesy oriented. It's real we've got the newest, best stuff and I don't know. It… And Hack Your Health was an entirely different vibe. It was, it'd be something I'd be thrilled to take my kids to, my grandkids. Yes, even at 39, I have grown grandkids. I think if you were really nice to Phil, he'd give you some of his passes. You think? Yeah. Okay. I'll suck up to Phil later. If not, just let me know and we'll make sure. No, but I, Just for the listeners as someone who's done his share of trade shows and conferences over the decades I will confess, when Phil said, "Hey, you wanna come to Austin as part of the team?" If I didn't have another reason to also be in Austin that, that week, I would've probably turned him down, and I am so glad that I didn't because- All the reasons that you've said and more. It's just a, It's so encouraging-… To be around folks who the same health journey. We're all pointed in the same direction. We're tired of feeling crappy. We want to feel better. We've learned that the traditional medical approach of drugs and knives is not gonna get us there, and we've taken it into our own hands to try to- figure out what will work for us. A- and d- it's, it was for me, it was silly to be on the… People would walk by Dr. Ovadia's booth and go,"Oh my God, it's Dr. Ovadia." And there was a little bit of that starstruck kind of thing. Sure. Hey, Phil's just a guy. I- we've been doing this together for five years. He's, And yet I found myself doing the same thing. Sure. I saw Sean Baker walking down the aisle and I went,"Oh my God, Sean Baker." Hope he noticed. And then I realized I'm being an idiot.'Cause these are all just folks. But it's, but everybody wants to help. As opposed to everybody wants to sell. Let me tell you something. Th- this'll give you some insight. We don't pay speakers. Speakers who come to Hack Your Health pay their own airfare. They don't get speaker fees. They pay their own lodging. The only thing I do is feed them at a VIP dinner on Saturday night, and they get a shirt. So all of these people who come to this event are doing it because they want to help the movement grow. They want to help people. And so you just called out what I think is the difference between Hack Your Health and all these other, all the other events. It's that people come here to either maintain momentum or to start build it, building it. Wherever they are in their health journey, the one thing that everybody has in common is that they believe tomorrow, and the next year, and the following year have the possibility of being better than they are today, and they want to figure out how to get there. Yeah. So when you're in an environment… I'm getting goosebumps when I- right now. When you're in an environment where you are surrounded by people who are operating at that level of energy, you feel it. So that's why it's so uplifting. You're… Everybody is there because they're passionate about being well. So when you're around people who are passionate about something that's positive, it fills you up, it lifts you up. And the next qu- the only problem is how do we keep that going for the whole year? And that's where the community comes in. Yeah. For the whole year until we do the event again, Phil, you've- Yeah You've seen… We just got off of a team meeting. And again, as an outsider to Phil's organization, it's fun that they let me sit in on this stuff. We're seeing tremendous interest for people get- wanting to get healthy and having success. Phil, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Will you brag a little bit about what you've seen Ovadia Heart Health be able to deliver here in the last, what is it? Five years now. I'm gonna I'm actually gonna just brag about what Robin's been able to do and the growth in that conference over the past four years that I've been attending or involved in it. And just again, I was gonna… My, my next question for Robin was gonna be, what do we do to continue to grow this? From my perspective, yeah, the difference in the interest going back, f- going back Six, seven, eight years ago to today. And just the fact that it is now part of the national conversation that we do have w- we… It just, health is part of the discussion, Yeah … in a very real way. And just I'm excited. I know the conference is gonna be even bigger this year than it was last year, and last year was bigger than the year before, and just to see that growth and that interest. But I also recognize that it's still it's… there's a lot of room to grow, right? Yeah. This is still a very much a grass move- grassroots movement, and we just gotta keep spreading the word. And events like this are great, and I'd love to kinda hear from Robin. It's one thing to promote these things within our existing community and, of course you get a lot of interest. But what have you seen in terms of, we'll call it outside the community interest, first people coming to the conference that are not, haven't really been thinking about this stuff, but something grabs their interest about it. Sure. And I'd love to hear your perspective on, on how we get more of those people. Yeah. So Phil, that was a really good handoff. You didn't want to brag about your own business, and you just punted to me. That was really good. Very sw- suave. However, we're gonna come back to that. So how am I doing it? I, one of the ways that I know that it, reasons that I know that it's working, because in the past two weeks we've had three different companies sign up to exhibit at Hack Your Health that we've never spoken to. So you know I have Ryan, my son, manages all the ex- the expo and the exhibitor sale, so he's the one who's talking to all these people. He had never spoken to any of them. So I know that people are learning about the event. We do that through YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and email. I'm not on any other social channels. I'm not on… I am on LinkedIn, but I don't promote, I don't do anything there. I probably should. But how outside of promoting an event, how do we reach people? That is such a good question. The MAHA movement, I, like you said is definitely helping. It's at least expanding awareness. I think that the only way that we can do this is by living a life that's an example to other people.'Cause when people see you doing well, they're gonna wanna know how you're doing it. Yeah. So if Shaun O'Mara can get me in really good shape by the time I'm 65-… then I'll start attracting that wanna get into shape. I'm just joking around, but I think that you, what you just called out the biggest dilemma really. How do we reach people? My, my personal experience, and I know your personal experience, Phil, is that when people are ready to make change- The possibilities find them. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. Yep. So the only way that we can, the only way that we can help people is keep on li- living that life as an example, and when they're ready, they'll ask or they'll see. Or the right te- the right person will say the right thing at the right time, or something will pop on their, up on their Instagram feed, they'll see something on TV. I wish that we could help, I wish that we could build this groundswell faster. There's so many people that are not well. I spend my days, as I know that you both do too much time in front of a screen, but I spend my days in a bubble talking to and surrounded by people in this space. But when you step outside of this space, there is an overwhelming world of people who are not well. And you see them walking up and down the streets, you see them everywhere. The lines at McDonald's are a lot longer than the lines at the farm stand. We have, we, like you said, we have a really long way to go. It happens slowly. I really wish we could do it faster. If there was a way I'd be all in. But- But isn't that part of the problem? We're getting philosophical here but we've been a culture for five, six, seven decades that has been addicted to the quick fix. Sure. And the quick fix is why we're here. Yeah. That's all there is to it. There are very few things that… I remember when I ha- and I've told this story many times, but when I finally found a doctor, a naturopath, by the way, who was, who could diagnose what the heck was going on with me, and he, told me here's the things you're going to have to do to recover your health." And I asked him, I said point-blank, "So how long is it gonna take me to get to, to get back?" Sure. And his answer was, "You didn't get in this overnight.""You're not gonna get out of it overnight." Yeah. And he was absolutely spot on perfect. It took me, I don't know, 10 months of absolutely strict paying attention. And the only reason I was so strict about it was, one, my girlfriend was an IC- a cardiac care intensive care u- care nurse, and she didn't want me on her, in one of her beds. Sure. And I was just so bloody sick of being sick. I wanted, I needed, I had to get well. Yeah. But I, it took spiraling down to practically being dead before I got- Desperate enough, it's it's almost like the alcoholic story, they gotta bottom out before they, they admit- … I can't do this. But I think, yeah, I think, at a societal level, that's what I see, right? I think we have bottomed out, right? And I think enough people are sick enough, right? And things like COVID, right? Really, highlighted this in, in how, both in how sick people got, right? Because they were unhealthy to start with. Sure … and also just, quite frankly, it opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that, what the medical establishment puts out there as, the answer isn't always the answer, right? And a lot of people became a lot more willing to question things and to start, seeking their own path and doing their own research, and not just blindly accepting what, was this is the path to he- the path to health. I, do feel that we're getting to that parabolic part of the curve, right? With this whole thing. And since y- you're everyone's insisting, right? That I start talking about the business a little bit, right? That's exactly what we're seeing within our practice is, we just… the demand is going parabolic. And there are just more and more people that are finding us because they just started poking around and saying- Sure I don't quite think that," whatever it is, in our case, mostly heart disease questions, right?"I just don't think that what I've been, what I'm being told, and how I'm being told to approach my health is maybe the only answer." Okay."And let me go look at some other things." And then they stumble upon whatever it might be. Ketogenic diets, carnivore- Sure… biohacking of all sorts, right? And and that's gonna lead them to things like Hack Your Health, and that leads them to our practice and all of the things that go with it. Yeah … I'm curious, Phil. You're seeing an u- like a surge of people looking for answers. Are those people- what is the a- average age of those people? Are they coming to you younger and younger, or are they- Yeah, it's been an interesting mix. You- Okay … you mentioned that Sean, O'Meara, and the 80-year-olds. We have at least a half dozen 80-year-olds, and we even have a couple in their 90s- Okay In the practice now. Okay. And I also have I met just yesterday with someone in their 30s, right? And z- we have a couple of younger people that some of them, they already have the bad health problems, right? They already had a heart attack in their 30s, for instance. And of course, that rightfully got their attention. But we have a couple of people in their 30s who r- are really just, they're like, "I wanna do everything I can to prevent the problems." They've realized that, and so they are being very proactive about that and seeking out the best information and, the people that are really…'Cause again, anyone who is honestly looking at our healthcare system realizes that it does an absolutely lousy job in prevention, right? It's great when you're sick. And, again it is the premier health care system in the world, and everyone comes here when they're sick. But if you're trying to not become sick the, our healthcare system does not have the answers for you. And I think more and more people are looking for that. And again, it's a lot of what we see at the conference, is that whole spectrum, right? There are some very, I've, at your conference, at other conferences, I've met a lot of sick people, right? And they really struggle to get there, but they do it, and they're, and they're starting their journey, and they're starting to get better and they're getting hope, which I think is one of the most important things- … we can do for people. And then there are also, just a lot of people who are doing everything they can to make sure that they don't get to that point, that they have to bottom out and be that sick, and they're being proactive. And it's great. And I think ultimately we can help both ends of that spectrum. You know where I would really love to feel like I make a, made a difference? I have two grandkids, a six-year-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old, and I'm around them a lot. And I'm around them with, when they're with their friends, and I see them when they're at school, and I see what the, what kids are eating. And yeah, my mom gave me TV dinners when I was 10 years old. TV dinners, in the s- early'70s were a lot better than what these kids are eating. Literally I know a lot of children who wake up eating processed food. They eat it all day. They don't eat a single real food item, a single one. I can't imagine the health problems these chil- children are gonna have pretty quickly. That's the… That's where I wanna make a really… I- it would make me feel good if I could make a difference there before I die, I want to help. I think if we can get those ki- those young people who are raising children right now and get their attention now, that we could have, a huge impact on the trajectory, the long-term picture. Yeah. Of course, I wanna help people where they are today, but from a grandmother's perspective, from a nurturer's perspective, I really wanna make a difference with those families that have young kids. Yeah. I'd love to see that, and I do think, I th- think the food pyramid will help with that, back to the food pyramid, because the schools are gonna have to adhere to that, and from what I hear Kennedy is working on changing what hospitals are gonna be serving, which is awesome. Yeah. Which that's gonna impact daycare centers. Yeah. And so I, I do think that all of those things will help. I wanna point out something else that i- is so obvious that it gets overlooked, and that is, V- and this is specifically for things like Hack Your Health. We are so used to interacting with one another like we're, the three of us are doing right now. Thousands of miles apart, mediated by all kinds of technology. And it's easy to forget that this particular form of connecting with other human beings is very new for us as a species. And just simply being physically in the same location with other people who are all pointed in the same general direction at the same time has a power that is impossible to communicate- Sure electronically. It can't be done. And that's not just true about health activities like we're talking about. It's true about all of human endeavor. We could… In fact, we've, I'm sure we've had all kinds of guests who've talked about this, but it's been s- a passion of mine for a long time this human-to-human, face-to-face, person-to-person connection. So I just wanna take the opportunity to encourage everybody who's watching, everybody who's listening, assuming that… And you know what? We didn't talk about the date. Let's make sure that people know the date of Hack Your Health. Okay. Hack Your Health is November 13th, 14th, and 15th at the Tampa Convention Center in Tampa, Florida. Tickets have been on sale for several months now. We have a discount code for the Ovadia community. It's IFIXHEARTS, which will discount any ticket purchased online by $100. There you go. So if you're listening to this prior to November 13th, 2026- … do yourself a favor. Do the friends do your friends who are trying to get well, your family who's trying to support you or for, whose support you need, go. Be there in person. Feel the feeling of being in the same room, the same physical space with people who are all pointed the same way. I promise you. And if you are… Oh, sorry. I promise you It will encour- it, it will build you up on the inside in a way that watching 1,000 YouTubes and listening to 100 podcasts won't do because it can't do it. And if you are local to the Tampa Bay area, and you can't come all three days, or you only want to come one day, whatever we will have a one-day ticket. It's not on the website. It's only available at the door. So you can come for one day. And I'm assuming that most people won't do that until our schedule is live, which won't be done until probably September. Very good. All right Robin, I'm so glad that we got to talk to you today. I have caught myself recently thinking about Hack Your Health when I was there in Austin a couple of years ago, and without realizing it, I was wishing we could have a conversation again. And d- my calendar comes up today and says, "Oh, we're talking to Robin Switzer," and I'm… I guess the student was ready, so the teacher came. That's right. So that's hackyourhealth.com. Correct. The details you're gonna need to get all the rest of the stuff done will be there on the website. The discount for listeners of the podcast is ifixhearts, one word, and we'll make sure all that stuff shows up in the show notes. So all you gotta do is click on it. Wonderful. Last words from anybody? Just- … thank you, and I look forward to seeing you both in November. Should be fun. It better be fun. And one final s- one final shout-out to our ho- our host and the founder of the show, Dr. Phil Ovadia. He was in the operating room less than an hour prior to coming onto the show. I don't know how he does it. I don't just play one on TV. He doesn't- … just play one on TV. All right, for Robin Switzer of Hack Your Health, and Dr. Philip Ovadia, this has been Stay on- Stay Off My Operating Table. We're here every week. We look forward to talking with you again. See you next time. Thank you.