The America Takeover of Formula 1

The episode we've waited 6 years to record! The America takeover of Formula 1. Join your hosts Patrick and Brian on the Hard Compound for this special episode. 

• Why this time, America is not leaving the sport. 
• How we became F1 fans. How did you?
• Making sure we get American drivers -- and American engineers, and American universities -- in F1. 
• How the NFL became the operating model for Formula 1.
• Finally, thoughts on preserving the glamour and European history of F1 even as the sport tilts toward America (and Asia). 

And as always, thank you for listening to everybody's most beloved father and son F1 podcast!  

Transcript

Brian S Hall (00:02.456)
It's the episode we waited six years to record, son.

Worst weather in Detroit in years. We had the snow storm, then another snow storm, then an ice storm, then bitter cold. But we're hearty, so they held the Detroit Auto Show anyway. That's going on now. This year, the big surprise. Ford Red Bull here in Detroit, launching Red Bull F1 car. This is a big deal. I say it's the symbolic start. When people in the future say, when did America take over Formula One?

It's going to be this day. That's the day they're going to say. All right. Ready to go,

Patrick (00:43.392)
I'm ready to go.

Brian S Hall (00:45.412)
Hello. Welcome to Hard Compound's American Take on Formula One with your hosts, Brian and Patrick. This is the episode we waited six years to record, the American Takeover of Formula One. We have fought long and hard for this. Patrick's son, before I get your thoughts on this special episode, let me read to you. This is from AutoWeek 2014.

Gene Haas has proved his seriousness about entering Formula One by paying $20 million. Let me continue. US-based Gene Haas, NASCAR team owner, who for the F1 project is already aligned with Ferrari intends to make its debut in 2016, probably with at least one American at the wheel. Well, we did not get an American.

Patrick (01:22.072)
haha

Brian S Hall (01:40.9)
and they are still linked up with Ferrari. But can you believe that? What an investment. Every team, including Lolli Haas, is worth over a billion. I think Williams is now worth two billion. American equity just swooped in and took them from Claire. But all this money, I mean, we did not expect this when we started this show. We were like, hey, we're going to promote Formula One in America, get Americans to watch, grow the sport in America.

We thought that was a big deal. $20 million. That's nothing. I mean, look now, mean, you know, we still have the Louis Vuitton, Tag Heuer, Rolex, but look at the other sponsors. And I'm not talking just Oracle, Google Android, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Disney, Doritos, Pepsi, Kit Kat. That's that American money. That's that's when you know you've hit the big time. OK, Patrick, that was a big introduction.

Let me get your thoughts on the American Takeover Formula One.

Patrick (02:43.695)
Yeah, I I think all of this really started when...

when echelstone sort of gave up his rights to f1 and you know now we have liberty media coming in and and basically controlling the sports series and so many like you mentioned so many sponsors everybody seems to want a part of it

Obviously the big streaming rights that Apple paid for this year comes to mind. And then we'll have what are considered two American teams in Cadillac and Haas now coming into into 2026. Obviously Ford with its partnership with Red Bull.

There's a lot, a lot going on. We're still kind of waiting on a breakout, American driver. and there's still, I think a lot of work to be done on, sort of integrating. American engineering and, sort of team ownership, into the sport. But I mean, it's been, it's been.

Pretty quick rise all things considered. I mean you mentioned 20 million dollars for Haas in 2014 that means that's like over 500 X Growth in a decade. That's that's pretty unbelievable And I mean, yeah you even think about like you mentioned Doralton is an American investment firm

Patrick (04:45.108)
owns Williams basically. So in some respects you could make the case that that's an American team. I mean it's here. It is well and truly present. But you know when we started six years ago it was really still kind of the start of what was

Brian S Hall (04:54.725)
Yeah.

Patrick (05:13.273)
happening and so to see how much has changed in that time is pretty impressive.

Brian S Hall (05:19.248)
I tried real hard to make Claire Williams my girlfriend. She rebuffed every offer. But my goodness, would have said, Claire, just hold out another year, another two years. Williams, it won't be worth 100 million. It'll be worth two billion. Oof, I feel bad for my girl Claire. But America, American money, American investors, American companies, sponsors swooped in. I mean, as you alluded to it just a few years ago.

We would turn on NBC Sports, which nobody got and nobody knows about. like, oh, will they show the race this week? know, and now Apple's Apple's writing a massive check. Give us the streaming rights. We did not see that coming. Even it's like we're going to sort of steadily grow this sport. This this 10 X or 500 X, like you're suggesting, did not see that. mean, I remember a couple of years ago I was out wearing a thing was Red Bull cap. I've got different caps and.

These young guys, high school guys were like, you like Red Bulls? Yeah, you like Max? They were like, yeah. And they were just big Max fans, you know? And I was like, wow, didn't, you that was a bit of a canary in the coal mine moment. And now look, the Europeans may not want to hear this, but the premier race in F1 is Las Vegas, not Monaco. We got three races here in the U.S. locked up long term. We got private equity all circling every team. It's.

It's pretty remarkable. And one thing that we've also talked about is not just the American sort of takeover, like financial takeover, let's say, or getting more races here.

One thing that I've harped on about is just how wisely, shrewdly Liberty Media, which now owns F1, has followed the NFL playbook. I get that lot of people outside of America don't pay attention to NFL, maybe don't care about the sport, don't like the sport, but just follow what the NFL is doing, how it uses multiple streaming and broadcast partners, how it does everything in its power to enforce parity, which is a completely radical concept to F1.

Brian S Hall (07:29.296)
You everyone was always, who has the best money? Who has the fastest car? And you don't catch them. It'll take you a decade. Um, this year, you know, every year NFL, it's like, how do we make any team, small market team, big market team? They can compete. They can win. We don't know who's going to today's football game. We don't know who's going to win next week's race. Kind of a thing. That's a radical shift that

I think a lot of European fans are going to have a hard time dealing with, but this NFL model of revenue growth, of expansion, and parity amongst teams is kind of going to be, think, a recurring theme.

Patrick (08:12.654)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the key to American interest. It's it is.

It is hard, I think, for a lot of Americans to care or appreciate a sport that is dominated by a single team. think that's why, that's why we're getting more and more hate for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Why fewer and fewer people are watching MLB is because, well, you get one team that's paying,

want to have billion dollars for their roster and the rest of the league is paying 100 million. Well yeah they're gonna win every year. Nobody wants to watch that, nobody cares. So I think it's important for to sort of gain American interest for there to be parity like you're mentioning and

because that has been sort of injected into the sport over the last several years, cost cap and other sort of regulatory revisements, people are starting to become more interested and enjoy watching more and more. And obviously that's important to the growth of the sport. That's important too.

American interests and then that I think is when you get all of these sponsors Who are just throwing wads of cash at the sport because they realize well, there's more eyes on it and there's more eyes By people who are willing to then spend their money So all of it is all of it is important all of it is valid, but I think yeah, I'm the

Brian S Hall (10:12.208)
Yeah

Patrick (10:17.272)
biggest part, like you're mentioning, is making sure that Americans remain engaged and interested, and that starts with a parody.

Brian S Hall (10:26.384)
Yeah, you know, we keep hearing these rumors that, oh, Mercedes has unlocked the loophole in the new rules. It's our 2026. There'll be so much faster, but that won't last. Even if they get a year out of it, it won't be like back when they had Lewis and Boatas and a car that no one could catch for years.

Liberty Media using the NFL playbook, trying to lock in parity to make every race kind of competitive. It starts with a spending cap that helps small smaller teams like an NFL with small market teams like say Green Bay Buffalo, which both made it into the playoffs.

So you have this bending camp, which means your top folks though might get picked off. Maybe someone gets, you know, Adrian Newey, you got picked off by Aston Martin, but it's a bunch of other people as well. But they've also institutes other things like, if you finish higher, you get less time essentially in, you know, in testing and, and, and doing aerodynamics testing, for example, and the wind tunnel, for example. But they also have kind of created a new sort of wild card rule, which I call,

It essentially, if you read this rule, I don't have it available. If it looks like one team is dominant, they basically will change the rules. They will, they will sort of say, no, you have to do this or you can no longer do this. mean, this is. Along with the American takeover, think, I mean, we call it that I just call it that to be a little bit rage baited, but, it's, it's this, this sort of mentality is like,

We want people tuning in every week and we want every race to matter and no one is going to know who might win this particular race. Just like in the NFL. And they've instituted the rules for this. This is a big deal. So.

Patrick (12:22.508)
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think there is validity to that. And I think we can see sort of how, how quickly it can work on sort of these, these rules that are intended to improve competition. And, you know, we see it basically.

finally Red Bull kind of broke the Mercedes streak. Mercedes was kind of going in a direction that maybe wasn't so fast starting in 2020 basically after some minor rules changes and then Red Bull becomes sort of this dominant team for

two and a half years you know and much much less than the than the prior you know seven eight years that mercedes had just utterly obliterated the sport and now you know we've had mclaren for about a year and half be the dominant team we'll see next season what happens but if it's if if we only have to worry about

dynasty for a year then it's not really a dynasty right it's it's this kind of odd exception that you know they that team that group of executives engineers drivers technicians put together something incredible and McLaren did that this season albeit max

took Lando all the way to the end of the season and I think that garners a lot of interest too, right? McLaren was the dominant team, sure. But we still had a championship battle go all the way to what essentially was the final lap of the season. That's still exciting and engaging and gets people interested. So all of these...

Patrick (14:45.868)
Rules changes and introduction of, of kind of regulations to help improve that competitiveness, I think has been wildly successful and hopefully will continue to be so, and sort of bring, bring the bottom up. You know, we still have obviously quite a large gap between those top four teams.

and then the rest of the field. And so if there's a way to kind of constantly lift the performance of those of those lower tier teams, then then it's just going to be, I don't know, everybody in the world is going to watch this sport. It's yeah.

Brian S Hall (15:24.303)
Right.

Brian S Hall (15:36.706)
Switching to the soft compound It has been 60 years 60 years or is it 50 50 years. I think since Ford beat Ferrari at Le Mans

pretty amazing. And here we are now, Ford teaming up with Red Bull, the launch of the new Red Bull F1 Carver 2026 here in Detroit at an event held by Ford. Delivery has a nice Ford blue to it.

And America is suddenly so intrinsic to F1 that we've got, as we said, forget all the money, forget all the sponsorships, the fans. We have Haas, sort of American team. We've got Ford, have Cadillac. Ford and Cadillac are now publicly trash talking each other's F1 team. That is awesome. And then they had a, you know, at the event, Ford CEO Jim Farley.

was asked about F1, was asked about Red Bull, he was asked about Max, and his answers were very astute. He knows the sport.

That was just great to see. like sort of the GM Cadillac CEO said something. He said, there's definitely national pride element to this. He said, F1 is innovation on the biggest stage imaginable. US didn't have a seat at the table until now. Now they do. We've got basically three teams. But I'm going to ask you, how and or when did it happen for you? You becoming an F1 fan.

Patrick (17:16.813)
So I'll just say the Ford GT40 that beat Ferrari Alman probably the greatest car ever made. So f off any Brits that think otherwise. It's not true. It's the best car ever.

Brian S Hall (17:27.917)
Yeah.

Brian S Hall (17:35.692)
It's certainly the best looking car ever. My goodness.

Patrick (17:40.302)
How did I become an F1 fan? Honestly, I just randomly I think randomly somehow On an NBC sports feed That I didn't even know I could watch saw a race and

This was back in 2011, 2012, something like that. Alonso was racing for Ferrari in Spain, pretty sure. And I don't know, it was just kind of incredible. I thought his driving was pretty remarkable.

I had obviously no idea who he was at the time, decided that guy is my favorite driver and turns out he's a two time world champion and basically the longest ever driver in the sport.

Brian S Hall (18:58.468)
Yeah, I mean that would hook you Alonso and Ferrari in Spain. I mean that would that would definitely grab you. Yeah, that's a good one

Patrick (19:02.72)
Yeah.

And so after that, just kind of continued watching and, and whenever I could, know, eventually, ESPN got those rights, was easier to see those, those races. And I mean, a lot of those seasons where Mercedes was just dominant was not, not the greatest spectacle, but

was still a lot of fun to watch, especially the Hamilton-Rosberg battles that we got to see. I mean some of that was just incredible racing and then Max joins the sport and is just this insanely talented teenager kind of just sort of throwing a wrecking ball into the sport. I don't know, there's been so many

Brian S Hall (19:41.722)
Yeah.

Patrick (20:06.048)
changes and fun moments and I think we're starting to get to the best the sport has ever been and so that's exciting.

Brian S Hall (20:15.408)
Yeah, you Yeah, you mentioned max and and you just think sort of the serendipity of all of these things happening Bernie as you say selling out to Liberty media. So Liberty me like we're gonna take this big time The the sponsor money the tech money Max joining I mean max I call max the Michael Jordan of f1 and not just because I think he's the greatest most competitive ever it's just

It sort of his entrance, like Michael Jordan, of essentially ratcheted up interest in the sport, you know, tenfold, let's We had COVID and people were at home watching Netflix and they have tried to survive. So I think there was these sort of serendipitous moments that all sort of coalesced. In my lifetime, I guess the closest I could think of would be the NCAA championship between Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

Prior to them, NCAA basketball was an extremely niche sport. was, NBA basketball was, had no money. Okay. And they sort of changed it. And I think all of these things just sort of happened at hyper speed for F1 in America. We had the Larry Bird, Magic Johnson moment. We had the Michael Jordan joining moment. You know, all of those things.

Like when Turner Broadcasting said, I own the Atlanta Braves. Let me just start putting games on every night on my feed, which anybody around the country can pick up. And that sort of generated massive interest in sports. ESPN saying, oh, we've got this cable channel that never shuts down. We'll just put on sports, any sport all the time. So I think we've had all these great moments and F1, just really has worked out well. And I guess for me, it was just, you

started in drips. was a little kid on Saturday morning. We did not have sports much, definitely not any sports news, but once a week we had Wide World of Sports. Jackie Stewart was there. He was no longer racing, don't think, but he would periodically show clips, especially from Monaco. And know, little boy in Detroit, I man, that's so far away. That looks so exciting and glamorous. Racing fast in Monaco. That just, that just, so I think that hooked me.

Brian S Hall (22:44.174)
never really cared much for NASCAR. 80s and 90s, IndyCar was pretty damn good. I mean, it's gotten good again. So I, and I couldn't see F1 then, so I just watched IndyCar, but then in the 90s, I mean, you just had some legends, the 90s and early 2000s, Santa Schumacher, that just sort of, you know, just sort of the interest alive until I sort of jumped fully into it.

Okay, our dirty ear segment. We've discussed the good of the American takeover 401. Now let's talk about the bad or the stuff that we still need to work on. When are we going to have an American driver, Patrick, who's up there? Not Logan Sargent, but it, no, you know, I don't like Logan. He's fine driver, but a solid F1 driver.

Patrick (23:39.436)
Yeah, mean, look, I think you talk about serendipity and sometimes,

You get the opposite of that. And I think maybe Logan got the opposite of that. Williams was shit when he was there. And Albion was an experienced and highly talented teammate. It was not easy to make yourself look good. Obviously Logan didn't perform particularly well, but you know.

Somebody tried somebody tried to bring an american into the sport and I think we're we're we're sort of trying again Colton herda is going to race an f2 next season So that's pretty nice we've got a revised Super license points for indy car so it is more comparable to

sort of the European Motorsport Series Super License Points that get awarded. So that means it will be in theory easier for Americans to make that jump to F1 or at least be involved with an F1 team.

You know, it wouldn't be that big of a leap for these F1 teams to go out and look outside of basically F2 for new drivers. So I think that that is the start of, of, I don't know, something good, I guess something that, that makes it promising for.

Patrick (25:48.618)
Americans to sort of enter the sport as drivers. So I think it's

Brian S Hall (25:53.73)
What about non-drivers? So for example, you know, I love the European legacy. I love the European glamour. It bothers me though that nearly all the teams are located in the worst parts of England. one thing that does is it's not just the drivers. It kind of locks out America's best and brightest engineers. I mean, it's not going to be easy to sort of get hired by Red Bull.

or Mercedes or Audi, example, McLaren. Oh, I'm great in engineering. So, you know, we already have that here. Oh, no, no, I'm better. Well, you know, we're not going to get you a work visa. We're not going to do this. We're not going to do this. How do we overcome that?

Patrick (26:40.11)
Yeah, I mean that I think has to start with these, with these American teams. I think Haas has been in the sport for long enough. need, they need to start growing their presence in the U S I think at the time they entered, it made sense to focus your efforts in Europe and sort of establish your, your team.

And that's fine. think at this point, you're good. You've been there almost 10 years now, basically. You should grow your presence here. And then obviously Cadillac and Ford. I think Ford has some operations in the US naturally. And then Cadillac, think.

has a minor sort of presence, they're focusing a lot of their efforts in Europe as well. And so I think.

That needs to change soon. I understand kind of because of the sort of a legacy of every every team being located and basically headquartered in in europe and almost all of them in england it makes sense to sort of first get your feet wet there but

I think yeah growing growing that presence in the states maybe forming partnerships with universities obviously a lot of the European teams do that and sort of establishing Degrees in in motorsport and

Patrick (28:44.448)
That is also something that they do in Europe. Obviously, we have things in schools like Formula SAE and that's great. That gets students exposed to motorsport and developing essentially race cars.

Brian S Hall (28:49.988)
I did not know that.

Patrick (29:12.501)
And there's competition for that. So these are all good things that are already established here in, schools and universities. so increasing funding and just presence that I think is. Frankly, easy and should be done and, and will benefit those teams benefit the sport.

And it should happen soon. I think by 2030, we'll have a number of American engineers, technicians, executives throughout the sport. And I think that will be a positive change and impact on the sport.

Brian S Hall (30:06.352)
Okay, Patrick.

We've hailed the American takeover Formula One.

I wonder though, what do we want to preserve? What do we want to keep? I love, you know, and that don't just mean the Italian models or grid girls. I'm talking the glamour, you know, the, the, all those locales, those wonderful European, cows, the historic tracks like Silverstone. I love as much as I hate it. I love the

the European hustler, the guy who could just, you know, somehow will a team together just by bullshit, you know, he wasn't an engineer. wasn't a rich guy. You just somehow piece together a team, you know, with Liberty media, with billion dollar valuations. We corporatize the sport so much. We're going to lose the hustlers. one thing I always hated about Europeans.

but just also deeply admired, they would always have these bureaucracies and regulatory bodies and agencies. know, we have the FIA. What the fuck does the FIA do? What does F1 do? Who are all these people? We have these organizing committees and it's basically a way to keep Europeans employed in very good, high paying, cool ass jobs where they're always open to a bribe, where they're always eager to travel and go somewhere. It's such a good life.

Brian S Hall (31:41.164)
And I hate that as an American, I'm like, that's not fair. But I'm like, I kind of love that too. It's like the European old cast, you know, it's like, look, Austin's fine. But, you know, I'm going to go see a race. How about I do it in Monaco? How about I do it in Barcelona? I mean, you know, there's things I want to preserve.

Patrick (32:00.771)
How about, how about? Yeah, I mean, I think, there's a few things for me. One, as much as I am excited by the fact that like these three American races are, confirmed to be on the calendar for almost a decade. I would love actually to say.

Look, we're going to have 20 races a season and we're going to rotate. It's not, we're not going to sign you for long contracts. We're going to say there's going to be seven European races, five Asian races, four American races, you know, so we get two in the U S of Mexico and Canada, let's say things like that. Right. Just rotate through.

Brian S Hall (32:56.794)
Brazil.

Patrick (33:00.535)
And then we get to, we get all these, we still go to all these cool places, continents all over the world. We're still traveling and seeing those every year, but it's not the same place every single year. I think that is what the sport needs. We don't need like just stale stagnant. Obviously it makes sense.

from a, like an administrative standpoint is just like, yeah, we're going to sign long term deals. We know these places can handle it. That's it. We're, we're done. easy, but I think it's, it's to preserve kind of the nature of the sport and sort of the

the legacy and all of that stuff like you were mentioning. think it's important to have sort of a rotating schedule. And there can be, you know, like four guaranteed races every season. Like, okay, yeah, we're always going to have Silverstone. We'll always have Monaco, whatever you want. Right. But the rest of the calendar will kind of rotate through different places.

and that'd be great. Second thing to maybe add to your Euro legacy, Euro glamour, kind of ridiculous sort of European traditions, I'd say, look, we gotta bring back

We gotta bring back tobacco and alcohol ads, okay? We have to. This, we, we need a fucking camel ad on the side of a car, okay? Can we please go back to the good old days? Come on.

Brian S Hall (34:53.52)
Right?

Brian S Hall (35:07.024)
If we can't have great girls back, want at least, you're right, cigarette ads. I want the Marlboro Man. Hey, this is America. We're gonna the Marlboro Man on those,

Patrick (35:09.646)
Come on. There you go. I just, these are things I think that are intrinsic to the, the sort of glamour of the sport in a lot of ways. And you know, people will probably hate on tobacco being glamorous, but like it's fun. Cool. Okay. It is get over it. I don't know. Bring it back.

Brian S Hall (35:37.232)
It is. It is.

Across the line. That's our segment where we predict the winners of the next race. There is no next race. We haven't even finished testing yet. We haven't even really started it much. I know Cadillac was out there. I think maybe Ferrari. Audi, the former Sauber team. But, so for this across the line, where do we think the American team, as I'm calling them, are gonna sort of...

end up. So we have Ford Red Bull, we have Cadillac, we have Haas. Which team Patrick of those three do you think gets the most points in 2026?

Patrick (36:23.918)
I mean I have to assume it will be Ford Red Bull. It's the most well established and top performing team of the three. And then you have Max. I just... Max literally beat Ferrari by himself last season. So, you know.

Brian S Hall (36:29.476)
Yeah.

Brian S Hall (36:40.378)
Right. Max and Isaac. Well, then how do you think that's three?

Right, Right. So how do you think the order will pan out between Ford, Cadillac, and Haas?

Patrick (36:54.914)
I believe Cadillac will do okay. And they have two well-established veteran drivers coming in that should be able to handle and sort of help the team work through certain things.

Brian S Hall (37:12.942)
Yeah, we've we've kind of not Cadillac for choosing kind of boring Bo Tass and Sergio, but I think in their defense, think except for Alonzo Stroll at Aston Martin, that is the longest they would have the most F1 races under the belt of any team, I think. So I can't do that in my head, but it's got to be Alonzo Stroll. It could be Lewis Charles. Yeah, it could be Lewis and Charles. Yeah. Yeah. But OK.

Patrick (37:17.75)
It's boring. It's boring.

Patrick (37:35.138)
potentially could be Louis, Louis LeClair, right? It's a lot.

but yeah, it is boring but it it it makes sense for a team that is just joining to make sure they have well-established drivers. and then Haas, you know, I thought Haas did quite well this year. I think Oli Behrman is a budding star, but they have not

proven to be able to really break into the top say six really I think their Partnership if you can call it that with Toyota is big and important and will improve their Chances of success, but I still see Kind of that well-established Ford Red Bull pair

as as sort of the top contender here and then Cadillac I think is is a team that has just put a lot a lot of time effort money resources into developing this team this car a strategy for Formula One entry this season and

you know, I think it will work out better for them this year than it does Haas.

Brian S Hall (39:20.772)
Yeah. you know, Haas has so long been a reflection of Gunther Steiner, his personality. But I also think it's just been, you know, held back by Gene Haas's limited investment. You know, there's just no infrastructure at Haas. It's just everything outsourced. They've not built anything up. So every year it's almost like a new year. You know, whereas William, let me look at Williams. Bottom, bottom, bottom.

I mean, for a solo, but slowly moving up, you know, once the private equity money was invested in them, they James Vols taking over leadership of the team, the operation of the team, you know, they sort of moved up, moved up this year. I think in 2025, I believe they finished fifth this year. We think they'll finish, likely finish fifth again. There's just right now, it's still going to be hard to crack that top four.

Whereas Haas, think it was just, it's in, it's like every year's a new year, sort of a thing. Well then, because I think of all the drivers, we know how good Max is. We kind of think Isaac Hadjar is a budding star. Sergio Botas are not new commodities. We know what they'll do. And then Haas is O'Conn, bareman. O'Conn just seems to be, I don't know.

Patrick (40:19.47)
You

Brian S Hall (40:43.22)
not improving. I think he's peaked and he sort of settled at, at, Haas, but Barrowman looks good. Who do you think then of the six drivers for the American teams? How do you think the order will play out?

Patrick (40:58.931)
well yeah I think Max should be at the top of that list naturally. Probably by a wide margin. And then it's hard to say. I have to assume that Red Bull and Ford will kind of get their stuff together here and it won't put out such an unruly car.

If you can call it that from this season. So I think had jar will have much better time. Then Yuki or Liam had in 2025. Um, and I think he'll be.

I he'll have the second most points among those six drivers. Then I am going to go. This is a tough one. I think both Cadillac drivers will outscore both Haas drivers. Maybe not by a wide margin, but I think they will. And so I'm going to. Yeah.

Brian S Hall (42:00.287)
wow.

Brian S Hall (42:06.128)
So they're both using, because Cadillac will have its own engine, but in a few years. they're using Ferrari as well, right? Okay.

Patrick (42:11.86)
eight. Yeah. So I think...

I think it will be.

Botas Perez, Bearman Ocon.

Brian S Hall (42:30.544)
Okay, so you have of the six drivers for the American teams, Max Hadjar, Valtteri Bottas, Sergio Perez, Ali Behrman, then Esteban Okan. I almost agree. I'm going Max Hadjar, Sergio, then Bottas, then Behrman, then Okan.

Brian S Hall (42:55.386)
Alright, I want thank you all for listening to everybody's most beloved father and son F1 Podcast. is much appreciated. And to our European friends, please get used to this. America's outsized influence on F1 is real. And it is... Wait... Is it going to last, Patrick? There's been so many crash and burn efforts in F1 in its past. Teams, owners, America's presence... I don't think this...

It's gonna crash and burn. think this is a whole new world that the Ford Cadillac, that the Americanized version of Toyota. I think this is gonna last, don't you? I think our European friends need to get used to this.

Patrick (43:35.922)
I do. I think it's going to last because I think there is too much money being put in by...

people and corporations with a well-established backing. So I think it lasts.

Brian S Hall (43:59.758)
And with that, we are Lights Out.

Patrick (44:02.05)
See ya, thanks for listening.