After Thoughts: Conspiracy Theories

[A.I. Generated] In this episode of After Thoughts, our speakers, Cody and Josiah, delve into interesting discussions focusing on the fascination with conspiracy theories, society's trust in mainstream media, and the de-centralization of truth in the modern landscape. They reflect on personal experiences that shape their perspectives and question the popular narratives around major global events like 9/11. Join the conversation, challenge your perspective and question the norms. Tune in!

Transcript

Cody 0:01

That's nice. Nice mood lighting now. Look at us in the camera.

Josiah 0:04

Oh, we're recording. Okay. All right. Great.

Cody 0:07

Yeah. I can cut out the beginning. Yeah. Um, all right. So, oh man, what a, what an episode. Oh man. Yeah. You know what? I'm,

Josiah 0:17

I feel like a weight has been lifted. Like a, you know, there's still like more stuff I want to talk about you with. I wouldn't talk about with you, but, um, I. I hate that we went so long not really having that conversation.

Cody 0:33

Yeah, it's true. I think that it needed to happen. I, and it definitely could have happened sooner. I think that, um, there was some time that needed to pass and then there was, we should have probably had the conversation a long time ago.

Josiah 0:48

Yeah, I agree. Um, there was one thing that, uh, or a couple of things I, I didn't want the episode to go too long. So I sort of left it out, but I wonder, one of the things I wanted to, uh, talk about was just like, I'm putting on my anarchist hat a little bit here of, I feel like it's our response. Not only should, should we, Uh, I don't know is it helpful for us to believe in more conspiracy theories, but I, I feel like it's a responsibility too, because the, what I was trying to get at, I don't know if I communicated this well or not. It's like that term, as soon as you put a stigma on it, it becomes a weapon. Yeah. And it's like, they're the ones who get to label things, conspiracy theories or not. Yeah. Right? And so it, in, in the more stigma that that term has, the, the more powerful of a weapon it is to keep people away from certain topics. And like, I think that that's bullshit. And I hate, this is the thing that drives me crazy is when I was talking about, I start sounding like a right winger. Like, Yeah. And I'm a free speech absolutist. That was a left wing position. That's what drives me crazy for the longest time. Like,

Cody 2:05

if you look at the history. Far left and far right are like so much more similar in so many different

Josiah 2:09

ways. But like, the boot of the man was like coming down the left much longer than it was coming down the right. And, you know, historically, a lot of that has come from uh, you know, opposition to war. Yeah, and I'm very opposed to war and it's so fucking weird how that has now become a right wing position like now The left is pro war and anti free speech and the right has become like it's just this it's just And we've talked about my stance on like the war that's going on right now. We probably don't need to get into that but that's another thing that I Was kind of blew my mind in this whole thing is like once I started Uh, digging into some, some things. There were a few topics where like, I was front running the news. And so I would learn about stuff. And I'd, you know, learn about what evidence, evidence is there. And I would kind of evaluate things. And then I would hear about it on the news. And I'm like, I know more about this than you. And then I'd listen to how They position and I'm like that isn't at all an accurate representation of what's going on. Like what the fuck? Yeah And then it makes me question like how much of that the stuff that I hadn't heard like I hadn't had the chance to research First that I hear about and I'm just like, oh, okay, you know, I guess that's how it is and it's just like, you know, it's either there so there are there are lies of Commission, which is like basically like been like, you know, basically straight up lying and like changing truth with the, the, honestly, to me, the most powerful tool that the, the mainstream media has our lives of omission, right? It's like, if, if they don't want a topic to come to the surface, like they'll like, they just won't talk about it until, until there's enough groundswell, you know, or if there's enough groundswell around it, then they might have to, but then when they do, then it's very like. You know, trying, or trying to fit it into whatever the narrative is. Oh, sure. And it's just, it's so bizarre to me how, like, I kind of want to, like, get real into conspiracy theories and the afterthoughts here, because, like, do you know what Project Mockingbird is? Have you ever heard of that?

Cody 4:13

If I have, it's from you, I think. I feel like it does sound familiar.

Josiah 4:17

Uh, so it's a CIA program that was started in the 70s where it was like from the 60s and 70s era, um, it went on for years and years, uh, where they had major um, like news anchors and people in media and in um, Hollywood and public figures on, directly on CIA payroll and we're feeding them And, uh, then they, they got caught and they're like, Oh wait, sorry, we'll never do this again. Yeah,

Cody 4:48

right.

Josiah 4:50

And, and when, and it's so like crazy to me when you look at, especially like war is a great, uh, magnifier of this because all of a sudden, You know, places like New York Times and Washington Post and, you know, whatever. Uh, it's very clear how they can be just straight up mouthpieces for the intelligence community and the DOD. And it's like You know, what else is this happening with? I don't know. I don't think it's every topic. And I know there are lots of great people who work there, and there are good journalists who, like, really want to, like, dig into the truth, but they're also part of a system that came before them that, like, has guardrails

Cody 5:26

on it. Well, right. Well, now, yeah. And the fact that we aren't given all the information, and so someone is gatekeeping that information. And so, no matter how good the journalist is, if all the information they have to go on is what they're given from the government, then, like, that's what they have to report on. And that's the only context

Josiah 5:41

they have. And the incentives are that. You know, you, if you, you know, run something counter to what I'm giving you, guess what? I'm not going to give you any more information. And so like, over time, what has happened, this is, this is what drives me crazy. Is like, the media is supposed to be the fourth estate. They're the ones who are supposed to keep the power in check. They're supposed, they're the ones who are supposed to push back against those in power and hold them accountable. And instead, they now want to be in. They want to be part of

Cody 6:12

the club, right? So yeah, now they're just amplifiers for whatever they want.

Josiah 6:15

Right. And, and so like, who, who is pushing back? Right? And so you, you know, thankfully we have the internet and we have like independent media companies that are popping up and you know, they, but they don't have the same resources. Um, but there's some really damn good journalism that's going on outside of mainstream media. And it just doesn't, I think it's gaining more traction, but it's just not getting the attention that, you know, the incumbents have at this point. And man, I'll give you a great example. This is so, I laughed so hard when I saw this. Um, so did you hear about the Twitter files? No, uh, I don't think so. See, and the fact that you didn't really hear much about this is a great point because the only reason why I knew about it is because I'm like following it on Twitter itself. Right. So Elon Musk takes over Twitter and whatever you think about him, I have my own

Cody 7:09

thoughts, right? Yeah, same. We can talk about that another time. Yeah. Um,

Josiah 7:14

one thing that he did that I actually did like was, uh, he brought in independent journalists. And gave them access to all What the hell was that? It was a dog. My dogs are going nuts. Um, gave them access to all, um, basically a database of all the Slack messages and email messages internal at Twitter. And so basically they sat down with like an engineer who could query and they asked, you know, the journalist would ask them to look for certain things and they would query and give them results and stuff. And there's some wild shit in there. Sure. And just like The, uh, the amount of collusion that was going on between, uh, the FBI and, like, the intelligence community and the White House administration and, and Twitter to censure speech was insane. And then, basically, the FBI paid them for it. Like, millions of dollars. And so they, like That is so antithetical to free speech and like living in a free country and it's all like going on behind the scenes in this. So this all comes out and it was, um, the one deal that they had was they had to post it on Twitter first. Um, so it came out as a series of, of threads and, uh, and there was just some crazy shit in there. And yeah, and that certainly

Cody 8:27

helped Elon Musk either way because it was, it was, it was attacking the old regime, helping him, promoting

Josiah 8:32

him. But the, the thing is they brought the receipts. They showed where these communications were happening and what was going on and what the FBI was asking them to do and stuff like that. It's like literally

Cody 8:42

the worst case scenario for like when you say shit in Slack and your company and they own that shit, you know? Oh

Josiah 8:48

man, so then the FBI came out with a statement on this. Are you ready for this? Yeah, okay. This is their official statement. It is unfortunate that conspiracy theorists and others are feeding the American public misinformation with the sole purpose of attempting to discredit the agency. That was their response to the Twitter files. That's it. Does it so what's really fucked up about that? It's like when you learn like learn about the formation of the AB the H

Cody 9:15

Wow, so many letters FBI. I was

Josiah 9:16

thinking J Edgar Hoover Yeah he's the one you know started it and like Basically, he just like was blackmailing people and getting information on them and then like that turned into the FBI and then like, you know the CIA has its own crazy history sure how that gets started and like every like They, they, there's such a rich history of them doing, like, really shady fucking shit. Yeah. And then you look at, uh, one of my favorite people is Whitney Webb, if you've heard of her. She wrote, oh, you'll, you would love. I don't know about the books. I, I haven't read them. Um, I kind of like skim some pieces. Uh, they're, they're pretty dense, but she wrote a two volume, uh, series about Epstein and it's called, um, hell damn it. I had it on the tip of my tongue. It's called, uh, one nation under blackmail. And the whole premise is showing how, uh, organized crime and the government have become one, like literally. And, uh, and she traces, like, traces it all back. And Epstein is just one face of that. And so she basically goes through the history of how Epstein came to be, like, going all the way back to the people who, like, You know, mentored him essentially. And, uh, it is wild. I've watched so many interviews with her talking about like digging into all this stuff and it's crazy. And it's like. You know, these are the organizations that we're told to trust in and I know that there are good people there. I know there are people there who want to help people and like do like, but again, they're part of a system. They're part of a institution that, you know, is built with certain principles. And, and there's a, there's a degree of power that they have, especially because of the secrecy. Like, yeah, that's the thing. Like anytime you, the more secrecy you have, the more you have for like an imbalance of power and And like, that's the stuff that drives me crazy because I'm called a right wing nutjob for questioning the FBI and the CIA when, historically, it's been like a very left wing, it's just this weird, like,

Cody 11:23

realignment honestly, it's a pretty easy, it's an easy thing for left wingers to go to because we already say fuck the police. I know, right?

Josiah 11:32

Fuck the police, but the FBI's okay, man.

Cody 11:34

Just keep, keep it going. You know, keep going. Keep going with the fuckery all the way up the chain.

Josiah 11:39

They used to say that like, it's just, it's so weird. And, and I,

Cody 11:43

well, you can only, you can only be like the whole facade of changing it from within, you know, that I, I stayed in church for way too long for that reason. Oh yeah. You know, and it's like, you know, you can only be Angela working in evil corp for so long. That's my way of telling you that I'm currently binging the Shorobos. What season are you on? I am at the, I think towards the end of season two. I've been watching it the last like week. I was wanting to wait until after I'd finished it to tell you that it was too good of a plug right there. Um, but I mean, it's true though, being like, you can't, there's only so much you can do from the inside until honestly, when you're, when you're allowing yourself to be a part of a system that is already corrupt and already has a ton of power and a ton of authority, like. You know, like I thought for so long I could be a part of churches. And I mean, I know a lot of, a lot of our listeners still are church attendees and I get it, but I also too, like. I imagine, there's, I have friends who are still so indoctrinated in like evangelicalism and I, I, you can't, you can't influence them. You can't, you can't, you can maybe influence them but you can't straight up tell them like. You know, this is why you shouldn't believe these things, or like, try to line it all up for them, like, look at all of these things that have happened, and, and what you're a part of right now, and how it's making you feel these things, and believe less in yourself, you know, and hate yourself, because of how good God is, and how terrible you are as a person, and, um, and I have, I have, I have had over the years, but I still have a handful of friends who I just feel like are, are like that, and it's just like, And I, for me myself, I got to the point where it's like I was already like past that point, um, but I couldn't, um, I just couldn't, uh, be a part of it anymore and be around, one, the actual authority and influence that was happening in front of me and watching what it was doing to people around me and myself, and I didn't want to be a part of it, but like, Especially when you're working for them, like you are a part of it. You are the leadership, you're a part of it and you get lumped

Josiah 13:51

in with all of it and your livelihood depends on it. Oh my

Cody 13:54

God. The livelihood depending on it was the worst. But, um, yeah. And then in, and even still like, I think I had checked out so long before that, but like I, by my livelihood depended on it. And that was, that's, that made me stay way longer and Yeah, way more trauma happened in the last two years of me being in religion than any other time, really, but it was like smaller traumas. It was like verbal, verbal assault and verbal traumas and things where people were just like, they didn't like that I was questioning things or that I didn't necessarily believe in it anymore. Like they could kind of tell, like the holes were being poked. I mean, I was technically going to be, I resigned before they could fire me, but they were gonna fire me because they knew that I was like, Like half assing it, right? Like I wasn't even half assing it. I was like quarter assing it. And, uh, and, and it was because like, I just, I didn't have, I didn't have the, I didn't have the fuel to keep going anymore. I just couldn't do it. Um, And so like, and watching so many of my friends still be like so ingrained and like, see all these posts that they put about like how they're, they're not enough and, and, and God is so, so, so, and they, they rely so much on God because of how, how little they

Josiah 15:04

are. Yeah. And then the penal substitutionary

Cody 15:06

atonement. Yeah. Oh my God. It's just, it's painful. And if, I mean, if you're listening to this and you're still in that, like. Honestly, I feel for you. Like, I, I, I don't get it. I get it. I was there. Yeah. And, and I deeply hated myself for so long because of how much, and, and I thought I was so like inadequate because of how much I thought I needed Jesus, you know, and the life on the other side is, is wild because of the fact that I chose to ask those questions and challenge the, the system that I was in. And so like as much as I Um, you know, outside of the COVID conversation and things that we've been in, like, I think I am primed for questioning systems because of how much one ruined the first quarter of my life. Yeah. You know, and, and the only reason I'm out of it now is because I chose to, to buck that system and to question that system. And I got so many questions and the responses that I did or didn't get. And, um, you know, and. Eventually, I was just like, I don't know, the brainwashing kind of wore off and I just, I kind of saw everything for what it was and how, what kind of damage the churches that I was being a part of had done to people that I cared about and, and myself. And it was just too much to take anymore. And so, um, and that's not something that I, I don't think I've ever really like dug into and talked about, but like, I think that's except for when in therapy, but like it's. And I needed therapy to even navigate it. That's how like deep and deeply ingrained it was. And then, and so like, I think when I see like these just fires ignited in the political realm and how much everybody is just so fired up about everything. And I'm like, I almost feel that way. Like I feel as homeless politically as you do at this point, you know, it's just like, I don't, I don't, You know, there's, I, I, I aligned with the Democratic Party because as a party, maybe not the leaders, but the people who aligned democratically, at least in the middle. Tended to be people who were also for humanity and cared about things that people Wanted at least their least on the surface. Yeah. Sure. Yeah Well, and I mean like people that didn't have money like there's a lot of rich democrats, you know But i'm talking about i'm not talking about polit pods the the politicians or anybody. It's holding office. I'm talking about people like me and you those democrats Tended to I had conversations. I would have way more conversations with them than Republicans about Republicans always told me why people shouldn't have rights and Like why it's so weird You don't think

Josiah 17:37

that well, it's just like it's I Mean like I don't know. I the Republicans I talked to you I don't know if they're really Republicans are probably more libertarians. Yeah, and so they Would like they're the ones that's saying like they're like right Bill of Rights absolutists like they're very much like personal sovereignty Kind of people which I mean most I'm mostly aligned with in that regard like yeah I I don't want anyone fucking tell me what to do.

Cody 18:09

Right. And I don't think I should have to, I shouldn't, I shouldn't be able to tell anybody else what to do. Exactly. Yeah.

Josiah 18:14

Exactly. As long as you're not harming me or anyone else, like, do your thing, man. Yeah.

Cody 18:19

But, you know, and I had that conversation, you know, with, uh, my, my dad, um, about, uh, I don't know if he's a part of the community or not, but, um, I had that conversation with my dad one day and it was the most Um, honestly, it was kind of the most enriching conversation I'd maybe ever had with him as an adult about, um, he was so vehemently against, um, uh, access to abortion. He thought abortion was so wrong. He's not even, like, religious. And so, I feel like that's a good example of, like, filtered information, like, he, the things that he believed about it and, like, a lot of the, the, you know, quote unquote facts that he was, like, spilling out to me, I was like, this is, like, absolutely just, like, talking points from the far right and like these leaders that just want to shut everything down and And it was like, so, you know, and it was just, it was a matter of just asking questions. I didn't attack what he thought, I didn't attack what he said, and this was a great, great um, exercise for me, honestly, on being like, well, why do you feel that way? You know, why do you think, well, do you think, why would you think that a woman would want to get an abortion? You know, and it's like, and it's simple questions like that and, and asking the hard questions and, and trying to take. I've been trying really, really hard to find ways for myself and with others to have a conversation where we're not engaging in what, um, our, um, trying to, to activate that emotional response and trying to, like, keep people calm so that they can rationally try to think about it and go, Oh. I mean, to actually stop and be like, think for yourself. Why do you think, like, put yourself in someone else's shoes? Do you think it's only because they just want to live their life and they're irresponsible and they don't want children? You know, is that or do you think there's other things at play in their own life and that maybe you don't understand, you know? And, you know, it's crazy. The conversation we have with by the end of it, he was like, I kind of get it. And, and because my mom is a hundred percent like as much as she, she's like voted all over the map, but she's, you know, very pro like people's rights and obviously women's rights. And she's very pro, um, pro choice. And so. Um, it was a hard thing for her and my dad to have that conversation and live in that, in that same household with it being such a, a big thing with the Roe v. Wade thing that happened recently. And so, um, I think after that it got a little bit easier when we had a conversation because she was like, you got to talk to him. And I was like, why do I have to talk to him? But it ended up being a really great conversation. And I think that the thing that I took away from that was how One, how easily we just fall into tribal mentality and thinking about things based on like where we find our source of information, but also like how little we stop and actually think about the things that we say and feel, you know, we, we, we make so many decisions based on feeling, but that goes back to like. I really do think most people are in the middle. I think that people teeter back and forth a lot. And like my dad, who has been staunchly Republican my entire life and super, maybe not Republican, but very conservative, right. Conservative, but not in a religious way. Um, and has. But like there's probably all kinds of things in his life that he leans. I mean, he's, he's definitely a science nerd. So like, he's got to lean, there's certain things that he's got to be more liberal than he wants to think about or realizes, you know, that he lines up with people that probably lean more left than him. And I just think that, you know, I was talking about that a lot in the conversation about the polarization and I'm just like, I feel like I'm, I'm, it's whatever with post truth. I just want to be post political polarization. I want to be. Everybody's on the same page, that like, maybe we don't all get along, we don't all understand or agree with each other, but like, We definitely don't agree with or understand politicians, and they all need to just like, Burn in a fire. Get the fuck out. Like burn in a house somewhere, I don't care, I just, I'm so over it, and so, um, And the fact that like the rest of the world just looks at the US like we're a dumpster fire, it's just so crazy.

Josiah 22:21

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that part is true. To the degree that you may be thinking. From some of the conversations I've had but it's definitely like in a lot of ways we are a dumpster fire

Cody 22:32

I mean our healthcare system is insane. No healthcare system is perfect. Our healthcare system

Josiah 22:36

is definitely insane

Cody 22:37

Yeah and I think that's mostly what people look at when they say dumpster fire like we if I don't have insurance How am I supposed to get any health care? Like I, and if, and how, and if something bad happens, catastrophic, I'm ruined for life.

Josiah 22:46

Yeah. It's, it's

Cody 22:47

real fucked up, you know? And so it's like, yeah, that you talking about the medical field of there's so there's certain things that just like, you're going to get me on a soapbox. But okay, going back to like conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories. Yeah. So, but I mean, it kind of all relates because it's so easy to question our systems. They make it so easy to want to doubt

Josiah 23:10

them. They do now, but like, so it wasn't always the case. One of the things that I want to dig into, and then I kind of want to, well, if we have time to actually talk about a couple of specific. Conspiracy theories and get your thoughts. Um, but

Cody 23:24

I, if one of them's Epstein was murdered, like that's an easy, that's too easy. That's, that's like a one on one conspiracy. It's like, it's us. How obvious is that? Oh,

Josiah 23:33

um, but the, oh shit, I forget what I was going to say now. So sorry. Um, oh, the, the post truth world thing is really interesting to me because like, as soon as I hear that, I think, when were we in the truth world?

Cody 23:50

Well, I don't think that we were necessarily in the truth world, but we had more, I would say that societally, um, we had more trust in our modes of truth, or our channels of truth. channels of news and facts and being told what was happening. Um, and, and, and to some degree, the further back you go in the news, the less commentary you find. So like, because they didn't have as much time, like there wasn't, it wasn't, you know, television was less radio was less, I'm talking like way back, go back to like the, you know, Walter Cronkite days. Like you, you, you know, you listen, you go back and listen to the news. I mean, they literally get on. Now, granted, it can still be biased, for sure. But, I think we've talked about this a little bit before. Like, when you're just, when you're saying what happened. It leaves less room than when you're saying why it happened or where it, or like, or who it happened with, like, or why they did it. Like there's, when you start getting into motives and like, you know, say somebody like killed somebody or something, or they allegedly killed somebody, somebody died. Somebody died. This person is being, you know, it's, it depends on how you say it. But then it's like, oh, well this person's family said this about them. And like, and they start painting this picture of like why we should hate the person who did the thing. But like. We don't know the story and neither does the person who's telling us. So why are we talking about their life? It's like it's gossip at that point, right? Like how much of the news do we hear now? It's just gossip or someone's

Josiah 25:23

opinion. I mean how much of the news is actually news.

Cody 25:26

It's not news. That's what I'm saying Yeah, but I mean I remember in the Before my time, it's entertainment. Yeah. Before my time, the news was the last thing, you know, people, people, it was like watching golf on television. There is no, like, why would people watch it? Like, you know, when you were younger, I mean, I think about like, you know, my parents told me that they were like, they never watched the news because like, that was just like the facts of what happened that day and they didn't care. Like it was not entertainment for them.

Josiah 25:51

Yeah, I definitely don't like, I'm not saying I disagree with that. I just want us to be careful in general of romanticizing those, You know, those days because I mean, if you, if you dig into like the complicity of like the New York times, for example, in the, the genocide that happened during the Holocaust and uh, and with Stalin and Ukraine and like, I mean the, it, it, it seems like to me when I hear post truth world is, is I hear, um, De centralized truth world. So our channels of communication were so centralized. And that doesn't necessarily mean that there was more or less truth. Yeah. It just means that there wasn't a variety. There were, there was less variety in narratives. Mm hmm. And, and so the challenge now is that there is such a variety of narratives that it is, it takes a lot more work to start to make sense of it. Which is its own problem. But, I don't know, to me, I would almost rather have that problem than have the lack of information. Like, the thing is before, like, you couldn't, like, if I was, if I was, let's say I was a conspiracy theorist who questioned the JFK assassination. How would I get my thoughts out? Like, what would I do?

Cody 27:27

Yeah, you'd tell your friends, I guess. Yeah, I

Josiah 27:29

mean, like, my circle of influence is like, you know, really small. Maybe I could write a newsletter and mail it to people. Um, and still, it's pretty small. I don't think I could get anything published in a paper. Maybe local access would let me, but probably not. Like, on TV. Sure, yeah. You know, my options were really limited. And I guess this is kind of what I was getting at with like, the With all of the challenges that, like, the internet has brought, it's also made it much more difficult for, for powerful people to control narratives. And, and it's also made it more apparent when they do try to control narratives. And so the, to me, like the, the fog is kind of lifted on those mechanisms and I want to, like, I don't know if I would call it post truth world necessarily, but I w I

Cody 28:26

maybe not. I mean, in, in that, when you put it in that framework, yeah, I agree with you. I think that, I mean, what is truth? I think, I think of it in a different way though. Like I think of it in terms of like, I could look up where I first read it and, and tell you more of in context of how they said it because I may be just using it in the wrong context. But I think that, um, there's, there's, it's, they've talked about it in more of a terms of like, if just because like, say you say that all of that is uncovered, right? Like it's all, um, the mechanisms in which they were able to manipulate us are now uncovered. But the problem is, is that how. Is that too much faith in society to be able to decipher that for themselves anyway? So, like, does it matter? Is, as a whole, because of how many people have fallen for authoritarian, very strong authoritarian beliefs, which, I mean, throughout history, there's no, there's never been a time that I know of that authoritarianism worked, or benefited people.

Josiah 29:33

Well, I, I think that, I mean this is a, this is probably a much longer discussion around um, maybe we do this as an afterthoughts around the politics episode cause it's early, we're getting into it. That's true, that's true. But I, I think that that's a symptom, not a. Not a, not like an emergent phenomenon. I think it's a symptom of something greater, which is like when I don't have agency over, you know, my, my ability to provide for myself and my family, I'm going to have a lot less, uh, will. to question authority and a lot, you know, a lot more willingness in general, more willingness to accept what's given to me because I know that if I question that I'm putting my family at risk. And so to the degree that I have, uh, the means, right, I have more freedom to question unless I am just one of those people that, you know, is so ideological that I, I say fuck it and I don't care if you threaten me like, uh, you know, or if I'm putting my family at risk, like I'm going to speak my truth and like, you know, we have examples of those people and, and a lot of times they end up being right over the course of history and they're the ones who kind of start movements and stuff like that. And so it's like, it's this weird, you know, it's, it's, it's easy. Historically, it's been easier to trust. Um, because it's, you know, It's been harder to counter the narratives, but now I think that there's so many narratives out there. Sure. It's easier to find a counter narrative, and there are pros and cons to that, like there are definitely risks in that of like finding a different counter narrative. Um.

Cody 31:20

Well, and authoritarians don't take, authoritarian leaders love to, or people who want to be authoritarian leaders that are seeking that role, um, don't, they, they, they, they thrive in a society that, Um, wants to, that is afraid, that is afraid for themselves, right? Because like, then they, authoritarian leaders just redirect that fear and that hatred towards a specific group, whatever that group is, so that they're not focused on them. And then they make themselves a cult leader, essentially. Yep. And so, you know, they're like, Oh, I'm not a part of the establishment. I'm not a part of the system. I'm outside of the system. So follow me. And that's a system and that's, you know, it's just an extension. And so it's, it's, it's a dangerous, both sides are dangerous, right? You know, both sides of the extremes of the left and right are always going to be dangerous.

Josiah 32:07

And I know you might disagree with me on this, but from my perspective, I felt I was on the receiving end of that for a while. How so? I had the entire, you know, multi trillion dollar mechanism trying to convince everyone that I was a bane of society because of personal health decision. Mmm. Yeah. Do you know the psychological impact that it had on me? Sure. Yeah. It was really rough. I

Cody 32:38

bet. And I mean, I know to some degree only because of the fact that I was forced in the public and wearing a mask. It was the opposite

Josiah 32:44

effect. Yeah. For a while. And like, you know, there were I mean, I got off social media in part because there were most of the people in my feed were talking about how people like me didn't deserve to get treated if they went to the hospital and they deserved to die and they deserved, you know, all these terrible things because they made a Particular health decision, like personal health decision. And like, I have my own reasons for that. And I felt like they were reasonable based on my unique, like my specific situation. And I, I did the research and I, I, I, I came to that conclusion in my best effort. Was I right? Or was I wrong? I don't know, but I know that I did my best and I don't deserve to be treated that way. And like, and I, and, but I, but in that, in that I saw the ugly part. Of the system. For the first time. Yeah. And, you know, I've been, you can call it privileged, or you can call it lucky, or whatever. Up to this point in my life, I hadn't really experienced that. But then when I saw it, I was like, holy shit. Yeah. This is what it feels like. And I understand how people get radicalized. Like, I get it. Yeah. Like, when you, when you get on the wrong side of it, Like, the weight that bears down on you. Mm. It, it, It can vary like it takes so much. I'm surprised honestly that I didn't break like yeah, and and I don't you know we don't have to get into all that but like that that was that was a transformational time for me because It completely reshaped how I viewed a lot of things and especially institutions. Yeah, and so like, you know, I I Get what you're saying Around the post truth stuff. I guess I like just have a different frame of

Cody 34:32

reference after the last couple years. Sure, yeah. Well, I can see that. And honestly, like, that could I would say that it, you know, that experience, um, informs, um The, the, the, the idea of privilege for you as well as a more visceral experience, right? Like, you know, I, I feel like that was something that, oh man, we're so close to talking, doing afterthoughts about politics, like, well, let's, let's shift

Josiah 35:02

gears, let's, let's shift gears a little bit. Uh, what do you think about 9 11?

Cody 35:07

Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That might have been, that would have been a good first question in the episode

Josiah 35:13

actually. I thought about it. I didn't know if I wanted to dig

Cody 35:15

into that though. I've been following, uh, a couple of Instagram accounts that show footage of that day all the time. Like it's just like all of the gathered footage, which is an insane amount considering it's 2001. Like it was all like video cameras. Yeah. Um, like why were people like filming everywhere all the time with video cameras back then? It's so wild. I mean, it was New York. So a lot of people, but, um. Nowadays, can

Josiah 35:38

you imagine now? Yeah, why did a van filled with Israelis set up a camera before it happened and then started dancing after it happened? I don't know.

Cody 35:48

That's a good question. Well, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. I didn't know that. It's interesting. I still have a hard time. You know what always like stuck in my brain about nine 11 that always was just like, you know, we're talking about like connecting, like having open loops and like having that space where it's like. Really though? Like, I don't know. I just feel like I need somebody else to explain this to me. That's not you. Like whoever that person is telling me. And the thing that always, um, bothered me about 9 11 now, it's hard for me to like, one thing about conspiracy theories that always like bugs me is when, um, you start like pulling at all of these threads all at once to make a narrative makes sense to you in that conspiracy theory. And in order for all of those threads to also be true, it means that, An insane amount of people had to keep quiet about it and it's like there's a certain point where it's like Somebody would have leaked something like you know I mean, it's like that was in a real place where it's like it's a lot of times There's these conspiracy theories from outside the circle right and they're all saying well All of these people are covering it up and it's like

Josiah 36:57

how how many people would have had to keep quiet about the UFO stuff How many people would have had to keep quiet about? project Manhattan Um, you know. Yeah. A lot.

Cody 37:08

Yeah. And they did it. That is true. That is true. For like,

Josiah 37:12

I mean, uh, how many people were in the NSA for like 20 years before it was officially recognized that it was an actual organization and not just a conspiracy theory?

Cody 37:21

Oh yeah, but okay, well that's yeah, I mean that's kind of like fear of death or, or imprisonment forever. From the government. I mean, there's certain conspiracy theories that are outside of the government a lot of the time and I feel like somebody would have like leaked something or felt bad about something or like moral issue. I don't know. There's certain things, like not, I'm not saying all of them, but just some of them. There's some of them that feels too unrealistic because To pull everybody together on one event. Like, maybe over the course of time and in a system and people are a part of this system and whatever, but like, The reason why I'm saying this, like, let me, let me talk about what I'm, what's in my head. Um, the idea that 9 11 was an inside job and that the government pulled it off and that it was actually like, never planes. And like, this idea that like, You know what I mean? Have you heard that, that, that take on it? Oh, believe me, I've heard all kinds of takes on this. Well, here's the thing that's the hole. Here's always the gap. Outside of it and how it happened or why it happened is whatever to me. What always stuck in my brain since I was a teenager is them saying that a plane struck the building at a high level. And that the fuel made the entire building collapse.

Josiah 38:31

Not, not only collapse, collapse straight down, straight down at free fall speed or near free fall speed.

Cody 38:38

Yeah, exactly. Like how, how would that not have like collapse in stages? Even if it was true, even if like, here's,

Josiah 38:45

here's a fun question for you. How many world trade center buildings collapsed on 9 11? Two.

Cody 38:53

False.

Josiah 38:56

This, this is a, it's a, like, this is a thing that like is one of the craziest phenomenons about this whole thing is there were three world trade buildings that collapsed on 9 11 was one shorter building seven. was like 40 stories.

Cody 39:14

Oh, I heard of building seven. Okay. Okay.

Josiah 39:17

Still frame was not hit in any capacity. There was a fire and it also collapsed straight down at free fall speed. Now the crazy thing about

Cody 39:27

that

Josiah 39:29

is that the, I think it was like the owner of the building was on the news. There's like a newsreel thing I watched where he was talking about how like it was on fire. And they decided that there was just too much damage so they had to pull the building. Firemen do not pull buildings. Demolition of buildings in that regard takes weeks of planning. Like, it's not just something that happens.

Cody 39:53

And they wouldn't do it on the most eventful day of the US history. So

Josiah 39:58

not only did a plane crash into a building. At the top, and then, uh, the whole thing fell down at free fall speed. A steel framed building. Yeah. Uh, It happened, not just once, but twice. Right. And then a third time without a plane even hitting it. Straight down think like straight straight down like the physics of that. It's just impossible. Yeah, right And so the like I'm not claiming that I know what happened But there's just so many gaps in the story and I remember like that Oh,

Cody 40:31

sorry that and also a plane running into the Pentagon, but there's no plane parts there Yes

Josiah 40:36

that and it's like the most surveilled Uh, city in the United States and there's no video footage of any of this? Yeah. Like, like, come

Cody 40:44

on.

Josiah 40:45

Right? And then the plane that supposedly crashed in a field in Pennsylvania that just disintegrated when it hit the ground? Like, what the fuck was that about? Do you remember that? So there was actually four planes.

Cody 40:55

Well, yeah. United 93 or 90, whatever it was, 91 or Yeah, something like that. I mean, there was people, how do you, what about the people that were on it and made calls and said that I mean, I have theories about that,

Josiah 41:07

but, so, here's, here's a, here's another question. Uh, so there were a bunch of hijackers, like, Middle Eastern hijackers, right? Yeah. Um, where were they from? Like, where would you guess

Cody 41:17

that they were from? I would assume based on, uh, uh, uh, Based on Cheney's war that, uh, it was Afghanistan and Iraq. Right. None of them were

Josiah 41:29

from Afghanistan or Iraq. Yeah. The, they're like 22 or something. Uh, I think somewhere around that number. And most of them were from, uh, I think all but four of them were from Saudi Arabia. Hmm. And then, uh, they can't attack

Cody 41:43

Saudi Arabia. Exactly.

Josiah 41:46

And uh, I think the other four from like. One was from like Yemen, one was from Qatar, and one was from like, uh, I don't know, like Iran or someplace like that. Yeah. Um, and, and so it's like, but if you ask like a regular person. You would think they're from Iraq or Afghanistan, right? Yeah. Um, because we invaded two countries that really had nothing to do with, uh, with 9 11. Yeah. And, uh, we went and killed, uh, a million Iraqis, and we firebombed a country, and then we spent eight trillion dollars, uh, on a 20 year war that went nowhere, and, uh, all it did was make a bunch of, you know, Uh, defense contractors, filthy rich, and, you know, make us poorer, and, uh, you know, like, Yeah, it's just like, it's insane, how, like, that whole thing. And then, like, another conspiracy theory was there are no, uh, WMDs in Iraq. Hmm. And for the longest time it was like, you can't dare say that. And the crazy thing is like the person who brought that into mainstream was Trump. And during the, uh, during the, the election, right? Yeah. Right. The 2016 election. And so it was like, you know, before, but before that it was like, don't you dare question that. But now it's like super obvious. There was no evidence. Right. The evidence that was presented was a straight up lie. And like we, we know that. Right? You know, and so, but no one went to jail for that, you know?

Cody 43:16

Yeah, absolutely should have been war crimes. Yeah, right.

Josiah 43:19

Yeah, yeah, I mean, Clinton, uh, Bush, Obama, like all of them are war criminals, right? Yeah. And, you know, they walk free, you know, they're celebrated, they, it's just, it's, the whole thing is so fucked up. Yeah. But they call people who question that shit conspiracy theorists, and that's why I just don't give any credit to that term as a derogatory thing. Sure. It's like, I mean, a clear, like Like I said, I don't, I don't know what happened on I 11. I don't, I don't claim to, but there, there are just a lot of holes, so many holes in the official narrative. For sure. And there was this, there was this whole, uh, like video that was done that came out, um, I don't know when it actually came out. I saw, I found an old copy of it on YouTube. But like, when I, when it, when this happened, I was a sophomore in high school, so I didn't know shit about what was going on. Right? And now I look back on like, I can't believe people bought this shit. Yeah. Like, it's crazy. And it's like And the other thing that's nuts about this is, you know, they, uh, they come out and pass the Patriot Act, like right after it happens, um, and there was, uh, something that I was reading about that. And I think like someone in the media asked him like how they got a bill together. It's like, he's huge bill. How'd they get it together so fast? I'm like, basically it was sitting in a drawer. For ten, like ten years. Just waiting on the moment. And it was originally created, um, after the Oklahoma City bombings. And guess who wrote the majority of it? Who? Senator Joe

Cody 44:54

Biden. I think I actually knew that, that he was the author of the Patriot

Josiah 44:59

Act. So it was like an earlier form of it, right? Sure. And so it was just like, they're waiting for an opportunity to, you know, just like ramp the security state up, you know, their surveillance state up to, you know, 11. Yeah. And then everything that's happened since it's just insane. And the FBI has been caught. Basically, uh, you know, entrapping young Muslim men just so they can, you know, have like book collars and, and count as wins, but they're like, if they hadn't radicalized them, that those people will probably not wanted to do anything. And it's just like, this is so crazy. This stuff that has happened since then. Yeah. And, and when you look back on it, it's hard, it's hard to look back on it and say that like. Say that it is improbable that there wasn't some degree of coordination there. It's just, it's really hard to do, especially when you learn about, I mean, if you just look at Building 7 and all the stuff that went on, and the fact that, uh, the day before 9 11, uh, Donald Rumsfeld, uh, comes out, I think it was Donald Rumsfeld, comes out, and announces that the, uh, the Pentagon can't find 2. 3 trillion dollars, and then all of a sudden, oh,

Cody 46:16

9 11 we forgot about this. laughing Well there was a, there was a um, there was a show that um starred Jeff Daniels playing as some, some guy. I can't remember his name. Um, and it was uh, about the uh, the lead up to 9 11 It's called the Looming Tower. It's on Amazon. Huh. And um, it was this, it's kind of a crazy story about like how How many, uh, red flags there were leaning up to 9 11 that the U. S. just fully let happen completely and, like, all this lax security that seemed to be on purpose. And they, they insinuated conspiracy in the show. Mmm. And so, like, that was kind of an interesting show. So,

Josiah 47:00

here's another thing that, you know, all of the planes, commercial airlines, and really any, any aircraft, uh, Is tracked and was tracked at this time. Mm hmm Why weren't the plane shot down? Yeah Yeah, why there's an

Cody 47:19

answer to that question, okay, what is the answer

Josiah 47:23

the answer is that Seemingly kind of last minute there was a massive like exercise That had all of the aircrafts that would have shot that down, uh, like up in Canada or someplace, like up near the border, uh, running these drills. On this at the same time when this all this happened just coincidentally and supposedly like it came from Dick Cheney He was the one who ordered it. Well,

Cody 47:51

that's have you ever seen the movie vice? That tracks with that take of him Anyway, uh huh all that like stuff that came out about him being the like the true puppeteer behind that whole situation about all of it Yep entire Bush situation. Yep I mean, Bush couldn't do anything. His hands are tied. He's coming from an oil family. Like, what's he going to do in the Middle East? I don't know. That whole situation was crazy. All the, but yeah, I mean, there's, like I said, there's always conspiracy theories that like are certainly interesting to talk about because there's so much, I mean, there's just,

Josiah 48:27

but anytime, like anyone questions anything, it's like, oh, well, you're just a nine 11 truther. I'm like, what, what the fuck does that mean?

Cody 48:35

Well, you know, here's the thing though, too. I think that there's like, there is a more palatable way to have the conversation in which you just ask the questions and you don't necessarily try to pinpoint who's responsible. Sure. Because we don't know. I mean, no one knows. Like,

Josiah 48:50

I mean, some people probably

Cody 48:51

know, but some people know, but they're not the ones, they're not the ones, they're not the ones peddling the conspiracy theory to begin with. Um, and so like the conspiracy theorists. Start with the question, right? And then when the question can't get answered because they ask it enough times to enough people in enough situations, they start filling in the blanks themselves. That's when it starts to get, I think that's when the, the quote unquote general public that's not in this conspiracy conversation starts deeming them crazy because then they start like trying to, you know, they're that, they're, uh, What's his face off of, you know, always sunny, pulling, doing all the things, like, but look, this is what I found on my own in my brain. Um, and I think that, um, you know, if evidence leads to evidence, then that's, that's, that's one thing. If it's like, you know, smoking gun kind of shit, then you, you can't really argue with that. But like, there's so many times that like, because they haven't talked about it with anybody and they've been isolated for so long and they just start filling in the blanks and cause they, cause as human beings, we don't like. We want to close the loops. If you dwell on an open loop too long, it's got to be closed. And so, um, I, I do think that there's, there's always like that place where you cross that line where you're like, it's all of these things and all these things and like the Pope did it, you know, it's like how, but to ask the question, to have the conversations where you're asking the questions and you're saying this shit doesn't make sense. Like, I don't know exactly what it means, but it doesn't make sense that we should be asking these questions. That's something that I can't, I can't argue with that, that, that, um, that process and that philosophy because, yeah, we should ask questions. Because we're always being lied to. Um. Really funny stand up comedian I saw, um, I can't remember what he was from. He's in a recent show. I think I know what you're talking about. Called, he was in a show called LÜT recently. Yep, yep, yep. For those listening, um, he's like, uh, people talking about conspiracy theories, he's like, Oh, I don't believe conspiracy theories. They're all, they're all wrong. He's like, you really don't believe in Any conspiracy

Josiah 50:51

theories? Not even

Cody 50:53

one? You think that the government is just batting a thousand and telling us the truth all the time? He was like, He was like,

Josiah 51:02

I love my son. But I lie to him all the time.

Cody 51:07

He was like, they're putting in charge of all of us. All of the, all of the people. I'm just in charge of one son. And I lie to him all the time. That was honestly the best argument for asking questions and believing in conspiracy theories that I've ever heard. Like that was That may have honestly primed me for this conversation more than any other thing I saw that like months and months ago, but it's always stuck in my head every time it comes up again in my feed I laugh. I'm just like that is so funny. It's such a good way of describing. It's like we all lie And we can't help it and we love knowing things. No one else knows so if I had the power and authority to read classified documents that have become classified for whatever the fucking reason and I have the option to not tell people Even if it's like mundane shit, God, that train, for those listening, this is behind the scenes cause I will not edit this. Um, we always have to edit out the stupid train, edit out this train. I need to, I want to put like some kind of a foam or something in this window. I don't know if it would help. It would help a little for sure. Cause I've done it in a past place and it definitely soundproofs, but it needs to be like this. It's probably a fire hazard. Um, but yeah, I just, I don't remember what I was saying now.

Josiah 52:21

It's gone now. So, uh, yeah, so basically I think that like the point to take away from that is, you know, there's this narrative that is most conspiracy theories are false. Hmm. And I just want to dig into that like what percentage like

Cody 52:47

90 percent well and also like 80 percent but also to you have to You have to define what part of it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly And like because if you're just asking the questions You can't necessarily say it's false and also most of the time where a conspiracy where conspiracy theory starts in the questioning process is usually very legitimate. It's why, why doesn't the, why don't, why don't these two things connect? Why don't these two dots connect? And, and you're just asking, why don't they connect? And like I said, it's when, when people do don't have all the information because we're not given this, that information, though, we should have that information and start connecting dots that maybe don't exist or don't connect. That's when people deem you crazy. And it's like, Oh, that's just a stupid, crazy conspiracy. And that's where mainstream, like try they pick up on that. Yes. To pick up on the thing, the phantom lines that we're connecting. And I'll actually, I think

Josiah 53:35

that, um, The UFO phenomenon probably, It was the biggest contributor to building the infrastructure for the secrecy. Mm, yeah, for sure. And, and so, like, just bringing it back around. Um, you know, when we did the UFO episode, it's one of our least downloaded episodes, which I thought was so funny because I thought it was good.

Cody 53:55

Wonder if that number will go up now. Oh, I don't know. Probably not.

Josiah 53:58

But I just it was so funny to me that like a still substantial portion of our community was like, no, there's nothing to this. And I'm like. All right, just wait. Yeah, and then sure enough like we just had like last week or in the last couple of weeks This was July 26th last week. Yeah, so Thursday. It was an actual hearing in front of Congress as a committee in front of Congress and Televised it was public it was under oath and It had three highly credible witnesses the two Pilots that, uh, their stories have kind of become most infamous now, uh, Ryan Graves and David Fravor. They talk about their experiences encountering, well, a craft that do not operate in a way that our physics, the current, our current understanding of how physics work and material science like would allow, um, just extraordinary, you know, extraordinary maneuvers and things that shouldn't be possible. Um, and. But the most credible was David Grush, who is a decorated combat veteran, who has the, you know, is a senior intelligence officer who, uh, had the highest, still has the highest level of clearance possible. He was put on the UAP. I bet he don't now. Well, he still does, yeah, because he stayed inside the lines, right? Oh, okay. So he was put on the UAP task force. Last year or a couple years ago, um, and which was put in charge of investigating this phenomenon. Right. And he, so he started interviewing people and he started asking questions and, uh, he, he started to, uh, get told stories about like from people who were either formerly or currently part of programs that are, uh, essentially black. black programs, like dark programs that, um, are special access programs that are not sanctioned, don't have oversight from Congress, uh, that are, uh, crash retrieval programs where they're retrieving craft. of non human origin, and biological entities of non human origin, and that these are funded, um, one of the mechanisms for funding them are, uh, doing things like, you know, charging like 10, 000 for a stapler, and like these contractors that are way overcharged for things, and then take that margin and put it towards development of these programs. Funding these programs. Um, he He, you know, basically confirmed that, you know, there's been illegal activity going on decades since the 1930s of cover up. People have been murdered, uh, to cover this up. And he did all this like under oath in front of Congress. So if he is lying, he goes to jail. For a very long time. He has everything to lose and pretty much nothing to gain from this. Right. But what he, what he did was he, you know, he realized that there was something here and he started to running up the chain and started getting stonewalled and starting getting threatened. And so he went to the, the inspector general of the DOD and, uh, filed a complaint and, and like the, the IG was looking into it and he, and then essentially what ended up happening, it was like he, he filed, uh, Well, it's called like a DOPSR or something. It's like this, uh, request to put out information. And so everything that he has stated publicly was approved by the DOD for him to be able to say. Um, and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true from that, but it means that like basically like he went through all the proper channels so that he could do it the right way. And it took a lot of time, and he went through a lot of grief for it. He actually ended up quitting the government, uh, so that he could become a whistleblower. And he filed this whistleblower complaint, and now he's bringing it public. And the crazy thing about it was like, um, Well, one thing that was awesome was it was a bipartisan effort. You had like Matt Gaetz and AOC in the same room and they were both asking like good questions and they weren't like grandstanding and just trying to get soundbites. Which is amazing for both of them. Yeah, yeah. And so like just stuff like that, like everyone seemed to be taking it seriously. And, uh, so there was that. But, uh, also like a lot of the questions that he was asked, he's like, I, you know, for example, they asked him, like, where are these programs are? He's like, I can give you names, I can give you dates, I can give you locations, I can give you departments in the companies of where these things are. I have all of this information. I'm happy to give it to you in a secured like skiff, like a secure facilities. Yeah. Um, and. He could not do that because the, uh, like Bershet and the people who put this together, uh, they tried to, uh, schedule a skiff and got stonewalled. They weren't allowed to schedule a skiff for this, which is not suppo like, it's not supposed to be a hard thing to do, uh, but they weren't, they weren't allowed. They, and so, it's like, you know, there's something going on here. I don't claim to know what I have lots of fun theories and it's just it's fun to think about but like it seems really clear at this point that there is something going on and it's not it's very low probability at this point that it's just a psyop like There's a cover up and and we've got it like we've got to figure out what it like we

Cody 59:34

Yeah, that's that's one of those things that's going to be it's whatever it is It's insane. Like it's something that they really really thought would like rattle everyone's Well,

Josiah 59:43

I think at this point, yeah, maybe I, and I have, I have some crazy theories about it, but like, I also think that there's so many people that are implicated in doing some terrible

Cody 59:54

things. Sure. Yeah. They're just covering their own ass. Yeah. Right. A lot of it is probably that. Yeah. Um, I mean the fact that he was able to say that they gathered biologics of non human origin from a spacecraft or from a craft that doesn't, Follow our guidelines for physics that we understand currently, and he was allowed to say that publicly? Like, what are they not allowed to say? You know, like that's what I'm thinking. Like, despite whatever they're covering their own asses and the people in charge are like, I mean, maybe the people in charge really would like us to know, but if they'd let us know, then they let us also know that they did a bunch of shady shit, but like,

Josiah 1:00:28

and, and the, the lack of, I mean, there's been probably more media response than previously, but just a lack of overall, like, how is this not the biggest news in the whole fucking world? Right. Yeah. I do not understand how so many people are just like. So nonchalant about this, the implications of this are so huge. And it's just like, it's going to turn our world upside down. And I like, if this actually ends up coming out and gets confirmed, um, like, I, I can't, I, like my brain starts spinning of all of the implications of what this, this means. And, I, so I don't know, I think there's still, there's a non zero chance that, uh, you know, this can still get swept under the rug. Like Congress can get the answers they're looking for in like a secured facility and then never, you know, actually end up.

Cody 1:01:19

Yeah, they'll hear it. And then they're like, well, we can't tell everybody. Right. And

Josiah 1:01:22

then, you know, you know, we get into the 2020 election season, which is going to be insane, I'm sure. And it just kind of gets buried and people lose attention. Like that's, it's still a possibility, but I, and I've been super skeptical for a while of like any kind of real disclosure or what Steve Bassett calls the truth embargo, which I think is a great name for it. Um, But ever since that hearing, I was like, it actually feels like it might be happening. Like, this, this feels like the beginning. And there's so many, like the rumor mill is, there's a ton of, uh, witnesses, like eyewitnesses, in, who, the people that he, like Rush was talking about, uh, that are waiting in the wings. And so there was this whistleblower act that was passed last year, I think the defense act, that put protections in place. And for whistleblowers around these special access programs to come forward, without reprisal. And, uh, and so I think that, like, Grush was the first step and they're waiting to see how he's being treated, you know, in the government and in the media and all this. Sure. Yeah. And then, It's like a guinea pig. And then, and he was the, sort of the, the break in the dam and then the rest are going to come forward. And then at some point, if that happens, there's going to be pressure on the White House. To have, make some sort of statement on it. Yeah, for sure. And that's going to, that's when it's going to get real interesting because either they're going to deny it or they're going to confirm it. Yeah. And. Either one of those is

Cody 1:02:50

a huge fucking deal. It's true, yeah. It's kind of funny, I was trying to find just now this, there's a, right after the whole like, uh, hearing happened, I remember there was, there was some really good memes that were circulating the internet where it was one of them was like, You know You know that we're in, we're like, that it's a serious problem with global warming or whatever it was when we were just told that aliens exist. And we're still talking about how hot it is outside. And another one was like, uh, we were, we were told that aliens exist. Uh, something about the, it's the hottest week in the history of, of humanity. And there's like a list of all these things and in the bottom, it's like me just returning your email. It's like, honestly, though, it's like all this crazy shit happens and we just still go. It, we're just so desensitized. I can, and that's, that's the whole reason why, you know, I think back to like hearing about and reading about the, all that stuff that like. You know, the government supposedly, you know, contracting different, like people from different religions and stuff to see like what the, how the public might react if they were told that aliens exist and all that shit. And I'm like. Go ahead and tell everybody. I don't think anybody will care. One, a good significant of people won't believe that it's true. Yeah. They'll just be like, oh yeah, okay, whatever. Come and abduct me then, you know.

Josiah 1:04:10

Supposedly, according to Grush, actually, when he did that NewsNation interview, uh, that was like the only other interview he's done. Um, he said that the first crash recovery that happened that he was aware of was in like 1937 or sometime in the 30s and by the Vatican. Really? Yep.

Cody 1:04:31

Was the Pope! Told ya. Wow, that's kind of crazy. All the dots connect. The number 23. Did you ever watch that movie? No, but you told me about it. Oh my god, you should watch it. It's so good. Also, you start seeing the number 23 on everything. Like, it's really weird. It kind of actually is kind of weird, but yeah. Everybody can go watch the number 23. I I like these afterthoughts. I'm glad that we're doing 'em. Me too. I think, I think it's fun and honestly I hope that everybody listens to them and feels like, um, they're more a part of the episode and more, or more a part of like the production of it and like going like, 'cause like we kind of say this shit that's like in between the lines. A lot of the pod, the podcast ends up being like this edited. Concise version for the most part of what we're trying to say and then we get to come over here and like literally just like Unload and I don't I never know where it's gonna go. Yeah, it's fun. We have to keep kind of keep ourselves in on the tracks We really had

Josiah 1:05:34

to on this one, yeah, it is almost 1 a. m. So

Cody 1:05:39

All right, cool, yeah, well

Josiah 1:05:43

don't trust the government kids

Cody 1:05:46

Huh.