After Thoughts: Anxiety

Hey, we're back with another After Thoughts episode—our unfiltered, unstructured debrief where we process the Anxiety episode in real-time. This one's all about anxiety and, fittingly, it goes all over the place.

We talk about how our own anxiety levels have shifted since we recorded the Anxiety episode nearly a year ago, how AI has unexpectedly helped us break free from overthinking, and the weird paradox of how Fives can feel more comfortable on video than in photos. Cody also shares how AI changed his songwriting process, and Josiah explains why he finally tackled a project he’d avoided for years (spoiler: it involves escaping Apple's walled garden).

Somehow, we also end up talking about The Bear, the overwhelming nature of content creation, and whether people will ever be able to tell our voices apart in audio.

Expect some solid reflections, a few unexpected tangents, and maybe even a laugh or two.

Transcript

Introduction to Afterthoughts

Speaker 1 0:00

Did that beep mean we're going ?

Speaker 2 0:01

Yeah . I think so . Actually , it's a new feature , okay , well , we're going now , hey .

Speaker 1 0:06

All right . Welcome to Afterthoughts .

Speaker 2 0:10

Yeah .

Speaker 1 0:11

Anxiety edition .

Speaker 2 0:12

Yeah .

Speaker 1 0:14

Dude , it feels so good to be back . It does . I'm really enjoying it .

Speaker 2 0:19

Yeah , yeah it's . I'm excited about this season . I say that every season .

Speaker 1 0:25

Well , we're not even doing seasons anymore , that's true .

Speaker 2 0:27

Yeah , I'm excited about this next group of episodes .

Speaker 1 0:32

I got to adjust my mic . Okay , it didn't make any noise . That's good . That is good . Yeah , I'm pumped dude , like I know we talked about this a bit on the live stream , but I'm just really enjoying creating and not working for someone else and getting to do the things that you know I've been wanting to do for a long time Yep , and actually build stuff and create things . It's just been great .

Speaker 2 1:09

Yeah , yeah , it's , one of us had to do it . If we both had , man , imagine what we would accomplish if both of us didn't have to work . Yeah , for someone else , that is One day . One day , that is the goal . Yeah , the amount of things I could get done . I was talking to Madison earlier about how I just had like I was like I'm getting texts from Josiah about like proofing texts and stuff for that , while simultaneously having two conversations about music things with other people , while also trying to finish my orders , while also trying to respond to all the emails and get lists out , and I was doing all . There was a point for about an hour where I was doing all of it in my brain and I was like this is too many things , this is I can't , this is not sustainable . Anxiety , anxiety , oh man , that's yeah , that's a good anecdote right there .

Speaker 1 2:04

That's a lot . I have noticed how my anxiety before , if I was running at like an eight or nine , I'm probably now at like a one or a two which is a huge difference and it just feels really good , and I'm you know , the last time I tried to to do this , I was in just like a very different situation , um for sure .

Speaker 1 2:35

and so I've got some good runway , I've got a decent amount of bitcoin , which helps a lot yeah , so I can actually like take my time and do things right build stuff up yeah , um , yeah , and and it's funny too , how much and we were talking about this a little bit earlier how much this , how much stuff I wasn't doing before because of the anxiety , yeah , and how like , for example , we record video for every episode pretty much , and I never did anything with the video , because the second I thought about doing something with the video , my brain started spiraling around everything that would be involved . And if I start it and I do it once , then it means I have to do it for every single episode and then I have to go back to the backlog and do everything . Just going through this whole process , and one of the big things that shifted for me is just thinking of things as experiments and and , and also another big part of it , too , is like leveraging ai , yeah , um , which has been so helpful for me in so many ways because I'm able . So , in software engineering , there's this term called rubber ducking and it's basically , uh , you know , if you're trying to code something and you are having a hard time , you're just stuck .

Speaker 1 3:55

You know , hitting a wall , yeah , um , I don't know where it came from , but , uh , the idea is , you get it can be anything , but it was a rubber duck and you just talk to the rubber duck , just just out loud , say what your problem is and just through that process of talking it through , normally a solution will come . And and that's what I'm like . I'm basically using chat gpt to a to uh rubber duck like yeah all , but I'm doing it like rapidly , like rapidly iterating through things and in this scenario , the duck talks back .

Speaker 1 4:25

Right , exactly , it's so helpful . He knows all the answers yeah . So it's more like I'm treating it like a , like an intern . I'm like , okay , here's , here's all the things I want to do , go research this stuff and give me some options , like no good , let's double down on this and start like yeah , I'm just , you know I feel like a minority report but like in my mind yeah , yeah , um , which I'm sure we'll probably get to that that stage at some point you know , a side note , I think about that movie a lot , actually it pops up in my brain I need to watch it more often .

Speaker 2 4:58

It doesn't . It doesn't age well , but it um . I did not . The last time I tried to watch it , I did not enjoy it the way that I originally did , but the concepts in it are great . I just I'm a snob about CGI and we've just come so far and it's like really kind of garbage in that movie .

Speaker 2 5:14

It looks super animated a lot of the time but the idea of so much working for you , you know , and like all those ways because it's it's a very similar graphics to what I think of like in the Iron man movies , you know , especially like in the later movies , where you can like pull up this graphic and move these things around it's very similar right that and that is how I , that's how I feel .

Speaker 1 5:38

It's like I've got a Jarvis and so there's . You know , I kind of I think we have to go through these cycles of of how we feel about this technology . Um , because there's no putting the genie back in the bottle , no , um , and there's definitely a version of it where it's like you let it do all of your thinking for you , and that's bad right yeah because you're basically atrophying that .

Speaker 1 5:58

But there's another version of it where it's like you use it to amplify your thinking , right , right , and just like get way more done . And a lot of times what would happen before was I would have all these ideas , yeah , and because I didn't have one , I didn't have someone to really like sit there for hours and let me bounce ideas off of them .

Speaker 1 6:21

You know like yeah , right , and then it was just the amount of time that that would take , yeah and uh , and so it would just , it would just end up like , like spinning around and festering in my mind versus now I can just get it all out , right , and , and then I can come back to it later if I need to , but I can get it all out and I can actually have a sounding board , um , and it's taken a lot , a lot of work to get it to the point where it's actually usable for me in that way , but , yeah , it's working really well . And then on the video stuff , there's so many tools now , including the one that we use to edit everything . With that we'll just go through and pull out clips , and about half of them aren't really that good , but half of them are really good , and then they just you know , they're like 80 of the way there and they just need some cleanup and right , yeah , and how much percentage does that take off your plate ?

Speaker 1 7:11

oh my god so much it's like thinking about doing all that stuff .

Speaker 2 7:15

Before it felt like a burden and now it feels fun yeah , right , yeah , I felt that way this past month , um , during uh which I've talked about on the show before , about doing February writers every year , and I just completed that process and wrote more songs than ever have . So I was excited about that , but literally it's because I was using AI not to write the songs but to be the sounding board for my ideas and helped me filter in a much more efficient way .

Speaker 2 7:41

I got from point A to point B way faster than I would have by myself , and I I by . When I finished the songs , I felt like I still came to the place where it was still me , it was still my thoughts , it was still genuine , but so much more refined , yeah , better . I was pulling out better lyrics because I could be like , give me , you know so many words out of you know this , you know this , this um , period of of literature . Give me some , some synonyms for this word . Stuff like that , where it's like I was accessing a thesaurus , a dictionary , literature , references all in one place at the same time , rather than having to do it all by myself . Yes , and that's insane .

Speaker 1 8:19

Another great example of this is projects that I would not have done . It would not have even begun to take on before . Yeah , um , I've started doing because I now have access to this tool . Um , for example , I have been building out a home server . Um , I want to like use it to replace all of my cloud services . Right , and I stayed away because , you know , I have a technical background and I used to be a software engineer . I used to be a software engineer , I used to do it , like all that stuff .

Speaker 1 8:47

Yeah , and , and there's a reason why I don't do that anymore , and I because when I , especially when I was doing that like full time , I was everyone's it support right , like all my friends all my family , like I was their it support and it just I , I hate troubleshooting things . Like I really hate troubleshooting things Interesting it and it just I , I hate troubleshooting things .

Speaker 1 9:04

Like I really hate troubleshooting things interesting I , I , I love the creation process and like thinking of like creative solutions for things , but like trying to figure out why a bug is work , like you know , like hunting it down , trying to go through all this . I'm like , oh , it drives me crazy and which is one of the reasons why I stopped software engineering but and so that I've strayed away from some of these projects . I'm like there's so much involved in I think I enjoy some of the research , part of it , but but actually implementing things and get everything set up and making all these different systems work together , like , oh my God , like that's so hours and hours and hours of just research to get to figure out what to do . And then you got to like get it set up and troubleshoot everything . And man , I just I created a project in in chat , gpt , so I could have like multiple , multiple threads going for different things . And I'm like , okay , here's what I'm thinking of , what I want to do , here's what I already have . What are my options based on ? Like three different price points . And it gave me all of that . I'm like , okay , well , I'm going to order these things .

Speaker 1 10:07

And then they came . I'm like , okay , now I have this stuff . How do I get this set up ? I want to , for example , I want to get all of my photos out of iCloud , and how do I set it up to where I have a similar service and it syncs to my phone and then like a good photo view and all this stuff , but it's coming from my server versus apple server . And uh , and then it was like , oh well , you can just do this , and here are some options and it's like this one's probably best based on your criteria .

Speaker 1 10:33

I'm like , oh , great , great , uh , and and like how do I set that up ? And it just gives me step by step and like here's the actual command line props . You just

Discussing Anxiety Levels and Creativity

Speaker 1 10:41

copy it and paste it in the command line . And then it's like , okay , well , I've hit this step here . I got to this step and it's not working . And I'm like , okay , well , try these five things . And I'm like , okay , well , number three did , okay , great , now let's get back . You know , it's just like it really is like having a jarvis . Yeah , because that , just that process , you know , um , it took going , like it took it from probably a couple of days worth of work to down to , like you know , 30 minutes , yeah . And I'm like , oh my God , this is actually fun , cause I get to do the stuff that I enjoy and I don't get to . I don't have to do this stuff Bypassing the troubleshooting .

Speaker 1 11:15

Right , and so I'm um in that it it's opening up a lot of possibilities , like in my mind , whereas before , when , when that would happen , there's a lot of anxiety with that , and now it's like I'm I , I don't . I don't have that level of anxiety about thinking about the things that I want to do , because I I know that I've worked with this tool enough to where it can get me like 80 of the way there on a lot of the things that I want to do , um , so that I could just focus on the fun stuff , the stuff that I enjoy .

Speaker 2 11:49

Yeah , I felt that way for sure On the creative side of things too , in terms of just like making music , I felt like I had so much more to offer to the actual like arrangement . Or you know , when I was trying to do a production with some of them , them just to kind of test myself , the song was written in 20 minutes . I had all this other time and energy to be able to put it towards the things I really love . And the best part about it is when we were all hanging out me , you and our friend Cody , also named Cody I showed you some of these songs and you guys I think it was you that said you or him said it was the most me you'd heard- in a song like the most genuine and like it was like reaching deeper levels and it's just like I couldn't help but just like laugh to myself because of how I literally let ai get me to those places right .

Speaker 2 12:38

Like I don't believe in letting ai like create the things for you . I know there's gonna be a lot of that . You , you know , down the pike there's going to be so many , so much more artificial , like music and sinking stuff and everything , and I just think that that's it's a whole other thing . But I don't want to do that . I still want to be the artist and who's in control of the creative process . But to have this brain you have access to . That's like working on it's like it's it's also kind of feels like taking the limitless pill .

Speaker 2 13:05

Yeah , a little bit you know it's like , then you have access to this entire database of information . That is , you know and you're still , but you're still directing it , you're still leading it . In that way , man , talk about a great , like big overarching anecdote for anxiety and relief of anxiety in this conversation right now . Like it's , it's wild , like I had more fun in this month of doing the song a day than I ever did before . It wasn't as stressful .

Speaker 2 13:30

I got through all the fun part and by the time I got to the very end , the last few songs . Yes , I was running on empty . Yes , I was done Like I did not want to write any more songs , but I pushed through , ended up being some of my favorites of the whole month , so , like it . Just because I was so easily able to like bypass the part where I'm like what am I going to write about ? Like , what am I going to do ? Yeah , and just starting from like nothing and having to find my way there , I was able to like kind of test ideas before I ever put them on paper and see what they look like , see what I could , what I could do with it .

Speaker 2 14:02

For the first time I ever wrote a song about my mom . She's been asking me to do that for years and finally did it because I had access to . I literally just started typing as many possible memories as I could remember of being a kid growing up and trying to weave those together .

Speaker 2 14:19

And so I was like give me 10 different versions of different perspectives from these stories and how they would weave together . Yeah , and then seeing , okay , this thread and this thread and this thread , from these three different options , I can make something out of this . And so then I just take it and run with it . And it was insane I couldn't believe it that it actually worked out as well as it did . And yeah , I think it's like once you unlock how to use ChatGVT , like I said to madison earlier , I was like it's not that I want it to like do everything for me . It's like and I think I was joking , I was like , as a five , it makes everything a playground .

Speaker 1 14:53

Yes , yeah , exactly yeah , and it it takes that , uh , iteration process and ramps it up to , you know , 11 , yeah , and and I think that it's , it's almost like it is is a tool that actually is like caught up to the speed of our brains , you know , yeah , yeah it does , we don't have to wait right .

Speaker 2 15:13

It just like responds with the information like oh my god that is such a good feeling to you , especially when you learn how to talk to it . And it learns how to talk to you like it starts learning the language , because now it responds to me in my lingo , which is also kind of weird , but , um , it's so the immediate gratification of like answer , at knowing exactly what question you need to ask and then it just answering it . You're like , yeah , that's great , that was faster than the google search and I got more information . Yep , um , but yeah , in that same conversation I was joking earlier I was like she was . She kind of laughed back and she's like you know , you can know or you know everything now , and I was like I don't know everything , but I could and that's it feels attainable .

Speaker 2 15:53

Maybe I might not remember it all , but I feel like I could know everything now . It's a crazy feeling , yeah .

Speaker 1 16:01

I , um I don't spend the whole time talking about Chad GPT but , I , think , just in terms of anxiety , for me , so much of it was just that fear that I didn't , that whatever I was trying to do , I would not have enough energy , knowledge or insight yeah for sure . And having a tool that allows me to gain certain knowledge , even if I don't use it , just knowing that I have it , yeah , if I need it .

Speaker 1 16:35

That will help me get like 80 of the way they are on something and leave so much anxiety , you know , because that's a big thing for us is like we're we feel unprepared to go into a situation , and so we research and we research and we research , and then we never actually take action on things because we never really feel ready . And so , as I'm doing this other , as I've been doing for the last eight years , the other work that I've been doing internally of getting to the point where I can take action and rewiring that part of my brain . A lot of it , though , was like doing it in spite of the anxiety , yeah , and now I'm finding things . I mean , this isn't the only thing .

Speaker 1 17:19

There are other things that we talked about in the episode , too , to help just alleviate that anxiety . In the episode , too , um , to help just alleviate that anxiety , and , um , it's not like it goes away completely , but , um , and maybe it does for some people , and if , if , I would love to meet those people and and ask them lots of questions , but , uh , but it doesn't have to for me , like , that's what I'm , that's what I'm feeling like right now is like I I am learning how to use the anxiety in productive ways when needed and um and and spot those spirals before they start to get out of control and and pull myself back into the present moment .

Speaker 1 18:03

Yeah , um , and that's been a that's . I think that's been one of the big things for me , since going full time on this stuff is practicing that in little ways every day and just slowly building up that trust with myself over time that I can do that Um and do it at a level that I didn't think was possible before , is the thing it's . I'm . I'm taking on stuff that I I I was afraid to do for a long time yeah um , because I was afraid of being overwhelmed .

Speaker 1 18:36

Um , and I don't feel overwhelmed at all . I'm doing a ton of stuff like yeah like , not everyone sees everything that I'm doing , because not everything has come out publicly , but I've just I've just been doing a ton of stuff on the background getting things ready , putting stuff in place , building up the foundation for some big things that we have coming up , and I don't feel anxious about it at all . Yeah , and it's amazing .

Speaker 2 19:01

It's weird . Yeah , it's almost like you can enjoy the process more too .

Speaker 1 19:04

Yeah .

Speaker 2 19:05

You'll look back more fondly on this process . I think we look back fondly on things anyway , especially if it helps us get there , but just making it a more enjoyable process and , like you said , just being able to focus more on the creative side of things , getting to tackle those parts . The heart of what your idea is that you can actually get to and feels attainable , whereas like before that it's like how many steps until I get to the thing where I'm actually enjoying it .

Speaker 2 19:33

You know , you have to go just like you said you don't like troubleshooting . The beginning of any endeavor is troubleshooting . It's the worst Anything you want to take on in your life . You have to start with troubleshooting to make sure , and so it's just like yeah , I , I hate that part of of doing anything so we recorded the anxiety episode last summer .

Speaker 1 19:55

It's like nine months ago my god , was it that long ?

Speaker 2 19:58

yeah , because we were supposed to come out this season in the fall .

Speaker 1 20:01

Yeah , I had short hair in the video . Yeah , you did . It actually , I think it was before last summer . It was a while ago , wow , maybe almost a year ago . That's so crazy . And we're recording this the day the night before we release it . Yeah , and it's just wild to me to think about how much has happened since we recorded that .

Speaker 2 20:24

And where .

Speaker 1 20:25

I was at in when we were recording that episode was just like peak anxiety in terms of what was going on in my job and my life at the time with . It was just it was crazy .

Speaker 1 20:36

Like we're going through layoffs , and I was on the leadership team , which meant that like I was part of that process , so it wasn't just like a yeah , uh , you know , a sudden thing it was . It was a multi-month process to get to that point of figuring out you know who was getting laid off and and then I tried to lay myself off , so that I did , you know so oh yeah , you talked , talked about that , yeah , yeah that's funny and uh , and then that didn't work for whatever reason .

Speaker 1 21:05

Um , and , and it was just , it was . I was trying to figure out what was going on with me . Um , because I had , at this , at the start of the year of 2024 , or I guess I guess , december , december , 2023 I had had this shift where I just felt like something big was coming , something , some change , um , and I anticipated it early and uh , and so then I just felt out of alignment and it was like that that misalignment was , was slowly ramping up my own internal anxiety on top of everything else that was going on , and it didn't make sense because I felt like pulled in this direction but it wasn't time to make the transition yet , and so I was living in that tension and that unknown .

Speaker 1 22:03

It was just all this inner turmoil and knowing what I know now I I had nothing to be anxious about because it all worked out like way better than I could have imagined . But but you know , past josiah had no idea and so he just like tortured himself . Yeah , and I'm learning that , like I'm , as I keep having more and more of these lessons . When I start to get anxious about my current situation versus the future , it's like it's it's it's having less and less power over me , because I just I have , because I have more and more of these instances where everything worked out great and if I had just let myself enjoy the moment , I would have saved myself a lot of heartache . That was A lot of extra energy that was spent for nothing , worrying about something that was not going to happen .

Speaker 2 23:03

Yeah , I feel it comes from that place where it's like you don't want to trust your ability to survive . I don't know , at least for me , if I'm really stressed about the future , it's because I don't know what kind of job I'm going to have or what the future holds in that way . But I always survive , and not not only do I make the best of it , I usually eventually find a better situation .

Speaker 2 23:25

So like you know what I mean . It's like I don't , I don't . I rarely go backwards anymore . I used to , all the time I did . I you know talking about trusting yourself .

Speaker 2 23:33

I violated that trust with myself a lot throughout the first part of my life and , um , I think the fact that I also feel that same way about the future generally , um , it helps me , uh , to get to a place where I feel like I'm just not like everything else kind of just goes smoother . I don't implode my life and I don't I'm not afraid that I'm going to as much as I used to be yeah , because like sometimes I just would you know , yeah , 100 , and that was .

Speaker 1 24:05

That was a big learning for me , a big learning , yes , a big learning for me it's a big time , big .

Speaker 2 24:14

Big broke up a big piece of learning .

Speaker 1 24:16

I learned that very bigly um let's not bring him into this this was a lesson that I needed to learn yeah when I was was just was to finish strong um and because I I very nearly imploded things like I wanted to , like I felt that urge strong , oh , yeah , sure , and I just something in me was like no , we've got , we , you've got to .

Speaker 1 24:44

You've got to show yourself that you can stick with it . Yeah , um , you're not doing it for them , you're doing it for you . And and the minute I really I mean I made that , that I had that resolved , I found that resolve and then it it wasn't even like a couple of weeks before I had the a new opportunity , like start to open up , yeah , um , and then that opportunity .

Speaker 1 25:11

What an opportunity that was . Yeah , uh , work for three months and then get laid off , uh , but it is . It was actually . I would have gotten laid off at my other job too right , yeah I wouldn't have been in as good of a situation sure um and and so it just yeah it . I , I , I would have never guessed that I would end up here like a year ago . No , but uh , the way that it worked out , um , but I'm really happy it did .

Speaker 2 25:45

Yeah , I feel the same way about that you did probably a year ago . In the sense it's like I'm not really sure what's coming . But for the first time in a I haven't felt the feeling that I'm currently feeling about my life and my future since probably 2012 or 2011 . Um , because I remember back then I was like super hopeful about the future and there was just a feeling that there was like you're hopeful about the future in 2012 , when the world was ending ?

Speaker 2 26:12

yeah , I didn't believe in the mind um , but it was also in the midst of like . In the middle of like , what little did I know ? What the future held for me was the most intense and traumatic church situation I've ever had in my life . That , eventually , is the reason I don't go to church anymore , and it's still like it's .

Speaker 2 26:32

So it's such a so many layers of trauma to go through and that was what was about to happen .

Speaker 2 26:38

And that was what was about to happen . And but regardless of that fact , I think there was just it was a point in my life where it wasn't so much about you know what was about to happen , as much as it was like entering a different phase of my life . That was my mid twenties . It was a very different time in my life . I no longer felt a like pull or connection to my past self or my hit , my past in general . You know , because , like you feel you pull that weight for a while , you're just like pulling and then there's a certain transition where it's like you almost just kind of let it all go and you're moving on to like the next phase of your life and I think that's probably a more accurate interpretation of what I'm feeling . I think I'm just like entering that different . I'm like I'm about to enter a new phase in life and I don't know what that means but , I can just feel a pull towards the future instead of being held back by the past .

Speaker 2 27:25

I love that .

Speaker 1 27:26

Yeah .

Speaker 2 27:27

That's . I think that's a pretty good way of describing it , because I feel pulled forward instead , yeah .

Speaker 1 27:32

Yeah , on my way over here , I was , you know , thinking about the episode and thinking about , um , just anxiety , or things that remind me of anxiety , um , and I finally started watching the bear with oh , man and dude , it's anxiety in a show oh my god , they do it so well .

Speaker 2 27:56

It's incredible it's a really incredible show , except for the new season , but that's a different conversation .

Speaker 1 28:01

But just the way that they ramp that up in you and if you've ever worked in a restaurant .

Speaker 2 28:10

I have people that I know , obviously for my job , that they won't watch the show .

Speaker 1 28:15

No .

Speaker 2 28:15

It's like I can't . It's too traumatic for me .

Speaker 1 28:17

Yeah , I'm sure it's like how far , are you into it Through season one ? No , I mean , we finished it .

Speaker 2 28:25

Oh , so you're caught up ? Yeah , I think so . Okay , so my two favorite episodes are everybody's two favorite episodes , and the reasons why for seasons one and two won so many awards was the second to last episode of both seasons , the first one was the one that the entire episode is one shot and it's where the all the tickets go . The ticket machine goes bad . Oh , so it's a .

Speaker 1 28:46

It's a 26 minute episode it is one single take , yeah never stops for filming that and that's why it's so anxiety .

Speaker 2 28:53

It's it's . It was genius to do it that way , I mean literally . I get goosebumps thinking about that episode because of the way I felt afterwards . It's like it changes you and I feel like .

Speaker 2 29:02

And people , there's so many people I see posts about all the time where they're like I had no idea that's what it was like to work in a restaurant . I'm like , yeah , now tip your fucking servers like it is so bad . I've worked in restaurants . I've worked in bars . It's not , it's it's . It's not glamorous and it's pretty rough and and you're and you're always like . I've had so many jobs where people were just like purposely they go out of their way to be offensive and hard to work with and it's .

Speaker 2 29:27

You find that in back of house and restaurants and stuff all the time , but like it's that that episode was the worst and then the next season is the christmas dinner is the second to last episode in that one as well , and that one was . There was huge sections of that one . The whole dinner table scene was one shot .

Speaker 1 29:45

Right , so like and like so much tension . Oh , my God , and you can feel it Like they .

Speaker 2 29:50

I mean , I've seen interviews of behind the scenes and everybody at that table had no idea what um the one that plays the brother ? Oh yeah , I can't remember his name . All I can think of is Shane , because he's Shane in the Walking Dead .

Speaker 1 30:04

Yeah , same .

Speaker 2 30:07

Oh , it's like right on tip of my tongue . Anyway , john Bernthal , john , yeah , anyway , we'll go with it . But nobody knew his dialogue . And when he got really angry and started losing his mind I can't remember what he does something like the table hits the table or something , and everybody in the table jumped and everybody said it was so hard not to break character because they legitimately were so anxious and terrified of the situation , what was happening . And the director has this style where when you think he's going to say cut , he doesn't , and so you have to keep acting , and so he let that scene go on way longer than everybody thought they were going to , and so then they just had to keep playing . And from that point on you're like trying to remember your lines , but you're also just playing and you're acting in the moment . You're just playing .

Speaker 2 30:53

It's a playground right , and so that's it . It makes so much more sense when you think of it that way . Of course , season three was like an in-between season , not bailey , basically nothing happened , and so I hated that season , but and it rightfully didn't win any awards this year . But uh , I feel like the new season will be back to the good stuff . I've seen some previews of it and it comes out in like a couple months so yeah , I'm excited , but that show is a true example of just pure anxiety .

Speaker 1 31:23

I'm getting full body sweats just thinking about it .

Speaker 2 31:27

My body tenses up , Dude .

Speaker 1 31:31

I gotta say the intro for this episode is so perfect .

Speaker 2 31:36

Yeah .

Speaker 1 31:37

Perfect way to come back after a long break long , a long break . And then also just like I , I , I laughed and then also felt anxious from the intro because it's like , yeah , you can feel us sort of struggling yeah , it starts to become awkward , like it in , in , like is this cringy ?

Speaker 2 32:00

is ? Is it not Right ? I don't know Right . I mean , I feel like , personally , it starts out pretty cringy .

Speaker 1 32:05

Well , that's the thing it's like . It's like constantly teetering on that and there was there , like I remember the first time I we need to shorten this and tighten this up . But then , when you get to the whole thing , it's like , oh no , wait , that was kind of the point . Yeah , so brilliant job . I like like thank you .

Speaker 2 32:26

Yeah , I just kind of you know I do , I edit episodes the same way I write songs . I just kind of like see where it , see where my mind takes me with ideas , all of those things where I'm like I'm gonna have to cut all this out . And I was listening through and I'm like , but what if I didn't cut ?

Speaker 1 32:39

it out .

Speaker 2 32:40

And then I just find one of those , like you know , blooper beat , blooper , real beeps and just put , throw that in there and so , yeah , that was . It was a lot of fun to do . I was really excited about that intro , yeah bro I honestly don't remember the episode .

Speaker 2 32:54

It's been so long since I've edited it . I meant to listen to it today for this conversation and then I was like it's been so long , I don't really think I need to remember much . Like it's going to be a different conversation either way . Yeah , so I just didn't stress myself out about it .

Speaker 1 33:07

I mean , that's usually how it goes , Like you edit it , like the first you know , you edit through it you edit it and forget it . Yeah , we don't end up releasing it for like six months , and then I listened to it .

Speaker 2 33:20

I was going to say not anymore , but that's probably not true because we're so far ahead that like we could we could be recording episodes right now for like seven months from now , if we do like one a month or whatever format we're going to do .

Speaker 1 33:30

Yeah .

Speaker 2 33:30

So that'd be funny .

Speaker 1 33:32

Hopefully it won't be a year though , no no , over a year , probably .

Speaker 1 33:38

No , over a year , probably . I think we're gonna . That's the other thing too . I don't feel anxious about cranking on a lot of content now . I'm looking forward to it . It's been fun to go through and start figuring out the process of getting these clips together . Going down the research rabbit hole of how do you grow on Instagram . I decided that I was going to start um . I was going to start doing youtube and doing more long form videos , but with , because we're trying to do so much at once , yeah , um , while I'm like building the program that we're you know , I'm launching at the end of the month um , on top of like trying to get our systems in place to be able to do content regularly , on top of trying to grow an audience like , um , like it's so much and , uh , I know nobody ever talks about it either , right ?

Speaker 2 34:32

no , content content creators gatekeep that information . Yeah , they won't let you see how hard it is and and .

Speaker 1 34:38

So I decided to go ahead and just stick with Instagram for now , so that I can focus on shorts , because it'll be a lot . We already have so much content that we can repurpose for that , and it'll allow me to create and test and iterate more quickly and get more comfortable on camera as well . Yeah , and get more comfortable on camera as well .

Speaker 2 34:59

Yeah .

Speaker 1 35:00

And then , when we're ready to do the more long form I will have , because what I'm going to do is take , basically take the newsletters , or at least the good ones Well , no , they're all good I'm going to take my favorite newsletters and rework them into scripts or script outlines for YouTube videos and and so that way I'll also be building up a backlog of those things so I can just sit down and bust out , you know , three or four in a day , and that way it'll be easier to get ahead on that stuff . Like that's my goal for those . And so I'm I'm holding off on youtube until , uh , we kind of get the um , like I get the program up and running and I I , because that's going to take a lot of work to kind of get , but once the system's in place for that um , it'll be good . So that's the plan right now and we're we're talking through this in real time , yeah , recording you know what I'm most excited about ?

Speaker 2 36:00

yeah , that doing more video means that maybe people will be able to tell us apart maybe once you've seen our faces enough you'll be able to tell us apart , because you know mannerisms play a lot into that , and so when you hear someone's voice , you can like see them saying it yeah , I think that helps a lot .

Speaker 1 36:16

Yeah , um , because well , get ready , because your face is about to be all over Instagram . I am , my face is Both of us . Yeah .

Speaker 2 36:24

Yeah , yeah , okay , that's cool .

Speaker 1 36:28

My face is already all over Instagram , if you go to my page .

Speaker 2 36:31

That's not a super conceited .

Speaker 1 36:37

If you only look at my page , all you see is my face , my face is everywhere .

Speaker 2 36:45

It's just the nature of a music page . Guys , calm down , everybody , just chill out well , I've had to um .

Speaker 1 36:54

So I'm , you know , I'm trying , I'm practicing , like taking newsletters and creating social posts for them .

Speaker 1 36:59

Yeah , I the one thing that does currently stress me out is trying to figure out like I'm practicing , like taking newsletters and creating social posts for them . Yeah , I , the one thing that does currently stress me out is trying to figure out like images to post , and like going into Canva and trying to do a designs . I don't want to do any of that stuff , which is one of the reasons why I'm like doubling down on video , cause I don't have to think about that . Yeah , and , and so I , I need to get these posts out , and you , I mean you can't , obviously can't just do text really on Instagram , and so , like , what do I put with it ? And so I ended up just like posting photos of myself . Oh , I know , and I've seen them everywhere .

Speaker 1 37:34

It feels so awkward , like I hate , doing that , but it's like I don't have anything else to post and I have the like from the photo shoot I did in like 2019 . So these are all pre-pandemic photos that don't look like me at all anymore , um , so , yeah , I'll be glad to not we should do like a whole , like little little .

Speaker 2 37:53

Uh , you know , we'll just have a little like lunch date and we'll just both dress up and we'll just take each other's picture .

Speaker 1 38:00

So we have plenty of images for each , but for both of us , yeah I actually was thinking about , um , hiring a photographer and just spending like a half day with us and because that way we can get a ton of shots , oh yeah , and with you know , in a bunch of different scenes to use for different things . Yeah , um , I think that that would probably be like it would be worth the the , the expense for that , because that's what I did with with these photos , um , I , I , because I was at the time when I was running my business , um , I was wanting to do more social stuff and yeah , uh , and I basically said , hey , like I'm gonna , I'm gonna bring like six outfits and here's what I want to use these images for , and so just shoot a bunch of random stuff of me . And that's what he did . I , I , yeah , I , I regret some of the outfits cause I can't really use them , they , because they're very risque yeah exactly my boudoir too much lace .

Speaker 1 39:00

It was just too much lace no , it's like lace is out now me in like a suit jacket , and you know looking very linkedin , yeah , very linkedin .

Speaker 2 39:09

Yeah , um , that's just definitely not me anymore , no , it's not so the hair alone , I know I need some updated photos yeah , I , yeah , I always need updated photos .

Speaker 2 39:18

I feel like I wish I just had somebody that I could just like on retainer if I could afford . So it's just a photography like hey , let's do I need new shots . Um , yeah , it's . It's a struggle that that kind of stuff like making content to make content . I don't like that part like making content to make , like making like you have to have , like you have to take photos and stuff to have new content .

Speaker 2 39:37

All right , so you're , you're making content to make like making , like you have to have , like you have to take photos and stuff to have new content . All right , so you're , you're making content . To be able to make content like to actual you know it's all the behind the scenes content you have to make b-roll and shit like it's just , it's stressful and you can't do it yourself , you have to have somebody else do it I don't know what it is , but video doesn't stress me out , but photos do yeah , no , I feel , no , I feel that .

Speaker 2 39:59

I don't , it's probably a five thing . Yeah , I don't know why . I have never in my life known a five that liked having their picture taken .

Speaker 1 40:05

I hate it .

Speaker 2 40:05

I hate it . Madison is a selfie girl all the way . She's on the tail end of the millennial generation .

Speaker 1 40:11

I don't like having my photo taken , but I also . The taking photos for specific things also makes you really anxious .

Speaker 2 40:18

Yeah .

Speaker 1 40:18

But video doesn't yeah . I feel that Okay , this is not just me .

Speaker 2 40:23

No . Video is different because you're not feeling like you have to look a certain way for a certain amount of time . I don't know . There's just something you don't have to . I feel like I'm not as self-conscious on video , but on pictures I'm aware of every inch of my body and what it's doing . It suddenly feels like I'm now Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights Just what do I do with my hands ? But I'm not like that on video . I don't know , it is strange , but I think it taps into a Universal 5 thing . Everybody let us know .

Speaker 1 40:55

We're going to do . I talked to you about this a little bit , but basically I'm planning out just I'm planning out like just a a shot list of like 30 different B roll shots that we need . Oh , and we're just going to like pick a Saturday and just go shoot a bunch of B roll all over town of us .

Speaker 2 41:12

Okay , you're going to have somebody do that too , or just ? Us no that'll be just us , okay .

Speaker 1 41:21

And that , like a lot of it , will be me , like you , shooting video of me , because I'll be the one in the YouTube videos , because that's what that's for sure . But but also we'll also need some shots of like us together , and then I'll take some of you too okay , sounds good , right every month okay . Well , that is probably all you guys are like . No one's probably listening at this point as we're like planning out our content . Yeah , they turned it off , um , but yeah , this was fun .

Speaker 2 41:48

I'm glad we're back yeah , me too , and not with seasons . We'll stay with you forever , forever , um , and no break at all it's not overwhelming it's . It's not , though yeah , it's way more spread out okay , goodbye everybody bye .